[08:01] <nysosym> hi there :)
[08:19] <BHSPitMonkey> yo
[11:34] <nysosym> re
[12:04] <nysosym> hi kwwii :)
[12:07] <nysosym> and hi darkmatter :)
[12:07] <nysosym> und PingunZ ^^
[12:07] <PingunZ> hey
[12:08] <nysosym> i can't find the icon for the upper left corner, to change these in /usr/share/icons
[12:08] <nysosym> http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfototo3.png
[12:08] <darkmatter> hi nysosym
[12:08] <nysosym> any ideas?
[12:09] <darkmatter> I'm busy hacking atm ;)
[12:09] <darkmatter> new slab... gnome-main-menu version 2
[12:09] <nysosym> no problem darkmatter ;)
[12:09] <nysosym> wow, what du u change?
[12:09] <nysosym> *do
[12:09] <nysosym> can i be a beta tester? ^^
[12:10] <darkmatter> nysosym, not changing anything really... just making the new version from novell ubuntu friendly
[12:11] <darkmatter> nysosym, http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotze0.png <--- thats fresh from svn... first compile to see what needs fixing
[12:11] <nysosym> darkmatter: ahh ok nice and thx :)
[12:11] <darkmatter> now time to crack open gedit
[12:12] <nysosym> ahh ok, i know it's a matter of taste, but for me these menu is tooo big ^^
[12:14] <darkmatter> nysosym, "big" is a tradeoff of actual usable design... the slabs not perfect... but you certainly wont get anything more usable in a container any smaller ;)
[12:16] <nysosym> ok :D
[12:16] <nysosym> http://soapbox.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=f9061379-003b-4fc4-b542-0c18bc0e84e2
[12:16] <nysosym> wow....
[12:53] <kwwii> w00t!
[12:53] <kwwii> I got svgs working in GDM to round the boxes
[12:54] <kwwii> nifty doodle
[01:01] <PingunZ> kwwii, show mee
[01:43] <kwwii> PingunZ: gotta figure out how to take a screenshot first :p
[01:43] <kwwii> PingunZ: still working on it, but I could post the files I changed and added if you want to test it
[01:43] <kwwii> I need to make sure that it works at all resolutions
[01:48] <elkbuntu> kwwii, for screenshot, vmware?
[01:50] <nysosym> kwwii: jippi feisty work fine here, now :D
[01:51] <nysosym> But, Network-Manager need new "human-like" icons
[01:52] <darkmatter> ewww... "human-like"???
[01:52] <kwwii> elkbuntu: for some reason I cannot install ubuntu in vmware
[01:52] <kwwii> nysosym: yeah
[01:52] <elkbuntu> this.. is not a good thing :-/
[01:52] <nysosym> darkmatter: why not?
[01:52] <elkbuntu> mind you, vmware hates me too
[01:52] <kwwii> well, my cdrom is in a docking station and for some reason after it boots it does not find the drive
[01:53] <darkmatter> stick to the tango guidlelines... its the standard now
[01:53] <kwwii> elkbuntu: I am sure there is a way around it
[01:53] <kwwii> but I am too lazy to figure it out
[01:53] <darkmatter> and jimmac did up a sweet set of tango nm applet goodies
[01:53] <nysosym> darkmatter: but tango isn't the standard for ubuntu ;)
[01:53] <elkbuntu> kwwii, a recompile probably
[01:54] <elkbuntu> which of course isnt likely ;)
[01:54] <kwwii> ;-)
[01:55] <darkmatter> nysosym, its the standard for gnome and everything else ubuntu is using... which is why ubuntu currently looks like crap... they should either use tangerine or redesign human to follow the guidlines
[01:55] <kwwii> boah, ever looked at the xml that inkscape writes?
[01:55] <kwwii> total shit
[01:55] <kwwii> the app says width=2px
[01:55] <kwwii> and the svg says width="1.95843736"
[01:56] <nysosym> *check*
[01:56] <kwwii> sory for my potty mouth
[01:57] <nysosym> kwwii: no problem :D
[01:57] <elkbuntu> kwwii, forgiven. you do restrain yourself reasonably well ;)
[01:57] <nysosym> thats the true :D
[01:58] <kwwii> bad, bad inkscape
[01:58] <nysosym> kwwii: thats the reason why, some icons looks a little bit blurry
[01:58] <kwwii> I mean, how hard can that be?
[01:58] <kwwii> even AI doesn't do that
[02:00] <kwwii> is the wiki dead?
[02:00] <nysosym> other question, where i can find the icon in the upper left corner to change?
[02:00] <nysosym> http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfotoxb7.png
[02:00] <elkbuntu> kwwii, is a weekend approaching?
[02:00] <elkbuntu> wiki downtime used to be a v.regular weekend occurrance
[02:01] <kwwii> lol
[02:01] <kwwii> nysosym: that is a tango icon
[02:01] <elkbuntu> anything from thursday to monday was fair game
[02:02] <nysosym> kwwii: sure, but this is there when i have activated the human symbols...
[02:02] <kwwii> nysosym: human defaults back to tangerine and then tango
[02:02] <kwwii> it might also be simply copied into Human
[02:03] <nysosym> thx, i will have a look on it kwwii :)
 hmm... it would seem the entire help.ubuntu.com is down.
[02:04] <elkbuntu> seems it's not just the wiki
[02:05] <andreasn> nysosym: the name is system-software-update in apps
[02:06] <elkbuntu> help. seems revived, wiki still sleeps
[02:07] <kwwii> wow, even launchpad is dead
[02:07] <kwwii> who tripped over the cord?
[02:11] <elkbuntu> * mvo_ wonders if something is wrong with bazaar.lp.net
 mvo_: see #launchpad
 Hobbsee: DB vacuuming, another 5 or 10 minutes.
[02:12] <elkbuntu> from -devel, so
[02:13] <nysosym> thx andreasn :)
[02:13] <nysosym> all works fine now :)
[02:14] <kwwii> yeah, you just gotta know the right person :-)
[02:15] <nysosym> yes, in every situations of life :D
[02:21] <PingunZ> kwwii, I was out .. you can make screenies with gdmthemetester
[02:21] <PingunZ> lemme get you the right command
[02:21] <PingunZ> kwwii, gdmthemetester xdmcp YourGDM
[02:22] <PingunZ> and feel free to send me the files ;)
[02:23] <kwwii> PingunZ: no xnest installed here
[02:23] <kwwii> I'll send you files, but know that it is not done yet
[02:23] <kwwii> so no commenting on the artwork :-)
[02:24] <PingunZ> ok
[02:24] <PingunZ> I'll do a screenie ;)
[02:26] <kwwii> PingunZ: http://sinecera.de/human-feisty-rounded.tar.gz
[02:26] <kwwii> the logo looks like crap
[02:26] <kwwii> but the boxes are rounded ;-)
[02:27] <kwwii> we need to test it to see that it works at different resolutions
[02:27] <nysosym> cya
[02:27] <nysosym> go to work now
[02:27] <nysosym> have a nice day
[02:29] <PingunZ> kwwii, uploading screenie
[02:30] <PingunZ> kwwii, http://pingunz.googlepages.com/humangdm.jpg
[02:30] <PingunZ> ^^
[02:32] <kwwii> PingunZ: cool, thanks
[02:32] <kwwii> it works :-)
[02:32] <kwwii> but the logo looks crappy
[02:32] <kwwii> how do you like the entry box?
[02:32] <PingunZ> well .. jpeg compression
[02:33] <PingunZ> looks great
[02:33] <PingunZ> here
[02:33] <kwwii> probably need to tweak the colors a bit
[02:33] <kwwii> but I tried to make it look the same as on the desktop
[02:36] <PingunZ> kwwii, uploading in .png for better quality
[02:37] <kwwii> PingunZ: great, thnx
[02:37] <PingunZ> http://pingunz.googlepages.com/human.png
[02:39] <kwwii> now I'll work on the logo a bit
[02:40] <PingunZ> wasn't the gdm going to be changed
[02:40] <PingunZ> I mean .. that ' smooth ' gdm thingie
[02:45] <kwwii> PingunZ: you mean the face browser or such?
[02:45] <PingunZ> yes .. and it was animated etv
[02:45] <PingunZ> *etc
[02:46] <kwwii> I was hoping so, but I have not heard anything about it in a while
[02:47] <kwwii> I guess that if we do not turn compiz in by default it is impossible
[02:49] <PingunZ> gdm has nothing to do with compiz
[02:50] <kwwii> well, how can you do such 3D stuff without AIXGL or such
[02:50] <kwwii> not compiz, I know
[02:50] <kwwii> wrong choice of words
[02:51] <PingunZ> hmm
[02:51] <PingunZ> if they decide to install video drivers correctly there will be no problem with that gdm
[02:53] <kwwii> the video driver installation has been pushed back to feisty+1
[02:55] <PingunZ> oh
[02:55] <PingunZ> what a shame
[02:56] <kwwii> well, we got a lot of flak about that
[03:04] <PingunZ> what's flak ?
[03:04] <darkmatter> heh.. technically you wouldnt need accelerated gfx to do an animated gdm... you just cant get "3D" without it
[03:05] <darkmatter> PingunZ, getting bitched at
[03:05] <darkmatter> about
[03:05] <darkmatter> etc
[03:05] <PingunZ> ok
[03:05] <PingunZ> so rather negative comments ? :D
[03:05] <darkmatter> yup
[03:05] <PingunZ> I get that
[03:05] <PingunZ> ty darkmatter
[03:05] <PingunZ> btw, how's the menu going ?
[03:06] <darkmatter> kwwii, you should fix them all and clone vista's login for spite ;)
[03:06] <elkbuntu> darkmatter, i believe kwwii rather likes his job
[03:06] <PingunZ> :)
[03:07] <darkmatter> PingunZ, soso... right now I'm not bothering with the schemas, I'm trying to figure out why the places arent showing.. lots of code to dig through
[03:07] <darkmatter> elkbuntu, :P
[03:07] <PingunZ> darkmatter, where can I get it ? :)
[03:08] <PingunZ> a .deb prefferably, I don't really feel like compiling it from source
[03:08] <kwwii> darkmatter: lol
[03:08] <darkmatter> PingunZ, gnome cvs just co gnome-main-menu/branches
[03:08] <darkmatter> no .debs
[03:08] <PingunZ> doh
[03:08] <darkmatter> its in really active dev
[03:09] <PingunZ> oh
[03:09] <kwwii> PingunZ: want to try another logo on that gdm?
[03:09] <PingunZ> yeah, fine
[03:09] <darkmatter> I'm going to check for updates after my nappy... and finish hacking
[03:09] <PingunZ> darkmatter, I'll wait till I'm back from my snowboard vacation then ;)
[03:09] <darkmatter> lol
[03:10] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntu.png
[03:10] <elkbuntu> darkmatter, you realise i just read that as 'after my diaper'
[03:10] <kwwii> lol, that is for a different kind of dark matter
[03:10] <darkmatter> PingunZ, the real deal is digging through all the code n backporting to 2.16... meh... I should just install fiesty
[03:11] <PingunZ> I will, when i'm back :)
[03:11] <darkmatter> elkbuntu, sheesh... I'm not that old,,, its like... 2 more years before I need attends
[03:11] <elkbuntu> kwwii, rofl
[03:12] <darkmatter> bbiab.. nature calls... and I answer
[03:12] <kwwii> PingunZ: think you could make another screenshot of that?
[03:13] <PingunZ> you want me to replace the logo with that logo and then make a screenie ?
[03:13] <kwwii> PingunZ: yes please :-)
[03:13] <PingunZ> ok
[03:13] <PingunZ> hold on
[03:17] <PingunZ> kwwii, http://pingunz.googlepages.com/ubuntu.png
[03:18] <kwwii> PingunZ: excellent, thanks
[03:18] <kwwii> ;-)
[03:18] <PingunZ> np
[03:18] <elkbuntu> aww.. decided against gloss?
[03:18] <kwwii> elkbuntu: that is the same logo as in the usplash
[03:18] <kwwii> might have to add some more because it is on a light bg
[03:19] <elkbuntu> yeah, it's a wee bit blurry
[03:32] <kwwii> ok, I am out for a while - bll
[03:32] <kwwii> bbl
[03:33] <kwwii> PingunZ: thanks again for the screenshot - I sent it to sabdfl to get his opinion on the rounded boxes
[03:34] <PingunZ> salute him from me, will ya ? :)
[03:37] <kwwii> lol, yeah
[06:26] <troy_s> greets
[06:27] <troy_s> that new logo in GDM is too heavy.
[06:31] <troy_s> Edgy one still seems superior in elegance.
[06:34] <troy_s> and kwwii -- you should post your 1.9xxxx pixel size issue in #inkscape
[06:34] <troy_s> see if there is a reasoning for it or whatever.
[07:23] <vdepizzol> will ubuntu.com website use a new layout after feisty release?
[07:26] <EmxBA> like which one, vdepizzol ?
[07:26] <vdepizzol> EmxBA: this one? http://www.ingral.com.br/~vdepizzol/ubuntu/index.htm
[07:26] <vdepizzol> (not ready yet)
[07:27] <EmxBA> that's pretty nice :)
[07:29] <andreasn> wow, nice navigation!
[07:31] <vdepizzol> the header menu should look like this old mockup: http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1219/ubuntuhomejn0.png
[07:34] <EmxBA> Feisty artwork will be designed by kwwii -- of Kubuntu Edgy and KDE Oxygen Icon fame. He will be working closely with sabdfl in the design. Do not expect community involvement in defining this portion. kwwii is only going to do artwork, no job for others or...I don't get it :(
[07:36] <vdepizzol> :|
[09:35] <nysosym> hi there :)
[10:08] <troy_s> greets nysosym
[10:08] <troy_s> nysosym: Missed you a couple of times that you were here.
[10:09] <nysosym> hi troy_s :)
[10:09] <nysosym> sure, i had to do some work
[10:09] <troy_s> Ditto.
[10:09] <troy_s> How are things?
[10:10] <nysosym> very fine, by you?
[10:10] <troy_s> Fine thanks.
[10:11] <nysosym> no problem, everytime again :)
[10:11] <nysosym> what do u do in these times? :)
[10:21] <nysosym> yesterday we have a conversation about the new fedora artwork and that these balloon will be a new metaphor for Fedora. My meaning was, that we need more african style in ubuntu, maybe a african elefant etc. . What do u think about troy_s?
[10:28] <troy_s> nysosym: sorry
[10:28] <troy_s> i was afk
[10:28] <troy_s> back now if you wish to discuss.
[10:28] <troy_s> nysosym: I believe that Fedora is symptomatic of someone with formal training in the fine arts discipline.
[10:29] <troy_s> It is nothing more than a manifestation of a schooled approach -- albeit without the implied discussion regarding audience.
[10:29] <nysosym> troy_s: no problem ;)
[10:29] <troy_s> My personal thoughts regarding 'overarching' Ubuntu design is that it should 100% avoid the plastic looks of vista / osx
[10:29] <troy_s> and turn 100% towards organics.
[10:30] <troy_s> wood, stone, etc.
[10:30] <troy_s> that said, it will never happen.
[10:30] <troy_s> motifs have been around since the dark ages, and Fedora simply implements them.  Again, anyone with 1% of schooled knowledge knows that a motif is one element of your design implementation.
[10:31] <troy_s> Motifs help to bridge continuity, establish your communication (what you are 'saying' between the lines of the design), etc.
[10:32] <troy_s> There are also musical / sound motifs, but that is about sixteen generations past where the development of ubuntu is.  For more information on audio motifs, studying hitchcock doesn't hurt -- as his films used them extensively.
[10:34] <nysosym> yes, the plastic look, is a moldy, wood and stones are very good ideas with a future, bu a well formed wood/stone texture is very difficult to render and i think a lot of people wan't a window with a wood texture like the interior in her car
[10:34] <troy_s> nysosym: Unfortunately it appears that Ubuntu will continue to chase the silly obsolete and archaic plasticky gloss of OSX/Vista and use rather cheeseball imagery for their packaging.
[10:35] <troy_s> nysosym: Yes, organics have been tried (and often reoccur) in interior vehicle design.
[10:35] <troy_s> That said, they have yet to be embraced regarding technology.
[10:36] <troy_s> I believe it could work wonderfully as it tends to communicate a more 'human' / 'real' / 'traditional value' sense -- as opposed to plastic gloss that communicates 'gadgetry'
[10:36] <troy_s> Further, if you examine extremely high end appliances, the current trend is to integrate organics.
[10:36] <nysosym> fully agree with u
[10:36] <troy_s> It all makes perfect sense, but it will never happen.
[10:37] <troy_s> A) We lack educated art folks.
[10:37] <troy_s> B) We lack a leader who values the design aspects of the product.
[10:37] <troy_s> C) We lack a target audience.
[10:37] <troy_s> etc. etc.
[10:38] <nysosym> troy_s: but there are other problems in a window with a wood/stone design, fonts are diffivult to read, small buttons go under in a flood of transitions etc.
[10:38] <troy_s> We do have many talented folks interested, but their abilities will always be only as good as the default design direction permits them to be.
[10:38] <troy_s> nysosym: All negotiable.
[10:38] <nysosym> kwwii: says that a art leader will be adjusted in the next time :)
[10:39] <troy_s> Those are certainly elements that need to be addressed, but to imply that they are insurmountable issues is simply not the case.
[10:39] <troy_s> nysosym: I have zero expectations for Ubuntu design.
[10:39] <troy_s> Which is probably a healthy expectation at this point.
[10:40] <nysosym> hi andreasn
[10:40] <andreasn> hey nysosym
[10:40] <troy_s> Fedora's work has set a new benchmark for all FS design in my opinion.
[10:41] <nysosym> troy_s: sure, another point in the conversation with kwwii was a design specification for ubuntu design. Ma idea was a guidline for 2-3 years, in these time the design of ubuntu will improved in every release, but with a well formed goal.
[10:41] <troy_s> nysosym: I don't know if it needs to take that long at all.
[10:42] <troy_s> nysosym: Once you have an audience, a chosen design communication direction, etc., the bits fall into place rapidly.
[10:42] <troy_s> for example, if you chose something like 'industrial', choosing a palette is relatively easy -- which also limits a plethora of other design issues.
[10:42] <nysosym> troy_s: yes, but other way are insurmountable with a release circle of 6 month, we can't made a design revolution in every release of ubuntu
[10:43] <troy_s> agree
[10:43] <troy_s> but we could realistically be far more flexible
[10:43] <troy_s> either target the LTS releases for entire new looks
[10:44] <troy_s> etc.
[10:44] <nysosym> troy_s: the design of OSX for example is uptodate since 5 Years and the design was improved in every osx release
[10:44] <troy_s> nysosym: Yeah but it is starting to look pretty dated.
[10:44] <troy_s> nysosym: Which again is why I stress that Ubuntu could easily grab the lead in design if it simply had a more innovative attitude.
[10:44] <troy_s> plastics and gloss are bloody _done_
[10:44] <nysosym> troy_s: yes, but what i would say, a design guid with a lifetime with 2-3 years aren't tooo long
[10:45] <nysosym> *guide
[10:45] <troy_s> nysosym: LTS releases are 1.5 years.
[10:45] <troy_s> With a fully firing team, I believe those targets would be very attainable.
[10:46] <nysosym> troy_s: sure, but the question is, "what is the future"
[10:46] <nysosym> we hav matt and gloss, semi matt in a different way, with very smooth transitions
[10:47] <troy_s> nysosym: It doesn't take much to at least make a POKE at the future.
[10:47] <troy_s> nysosym: Simply examine the design trends around you
[10:47] <nysosym> i think, are very less surfaces for the future
[10:47] <troy_s> nysosym: In vehicles, furniture, architecture, etc.
[10:47] <troy_s> Design 'trends' tend to reflect cultural values
[10:48] <troy_s> As we are living with 80s computing trends, they tend to still reflect the values of the 80s
[10:48] <troy_s> being gadets, plastics, etc.
[10:49] <nysosym> troy_s: ok, but the glossy look has a very high priority in many kinds of technology, TFT-Screens, Handys, Notebooks etc.
[10:49] <troy_s> 90s introduced the idea that we have a responsibility to the environment -- recycling, global warming, etc., -- and by no fluke -- a good deal of 'organic grown' produce became mainstream.
[10:49] <troy_s> nysosym: Yes.  They are chasing yesterday.
[10:49] <troy_s> nysosym: If you look to the entire spectrum of technology vendors
[10:49] <troy_s> nysosym: How many are noted for their design innovation?  ;)
[10:49] <troy_s> that is a pretty good indicator.
[10:50] <troy_s> I can think of Apple in the 90s.  That is about where it ends.
[10:51] <nysosym> ohh i think i know many design inovations in technology, especially in concept cars. The glossy look is very actual, and aluminum although. That all thing that we have in the past or in these time
[10:51] <nysosym> really new structures aren't availabe
[10:52] <troy_s> when i said technology vendors, i was specifically referring to computing, sorry.
[10:52] <troy_s> Some car design has been innovated.
[10:52] <troy_s> etc.
[10:54] <troy_s> but the 'plastic' design issue is larger than simply discussing gloss -- there are many natural organic objects that offer specular gloss etc.
[10:54] <troy_s> it really is the 'full' communication package -- for example, look at Vista's packaging
[10:55] <troy_s> The inner display 'retainer' clip is clearly visible, the product case is thick enough to expose the refraction of the plastic, etc.
[10:55] <troy_s> the packaging artwork binds up the plastic glossy feel.
[10:55] <troy_s> etc.
[10:55] <troy_s> Very clearly they are trying to catch onto the consumer 'must have this shiny plastic gadget' trend.
[10:57] <nysosym> and again i agree with u, i waiting for a long time, for something new on the desktop market. Organic structures are very good, u will have the feeling, that du doesn't use a computer, but a thing that u help to life your life.
[10:57] <troy_s> Yep!
[10:57] <troy_s> Bingo - smack on.
[10:57] <troy_s> Computers went from being expensive toys (Apple ] [ era)
[10:57] <troy_s> to useful 'office equipment' (Win 3.1 era)
[10:58] <troy_s> to very much a manifestation of life
[10:58] <troy_s> art/music/
[10:58] <troy_s> education
[10:58] <troy_s> etc.
[10:58] <troy_s> r
[10:58] <troy_s> 'real life'
[10:58] <troy_s> and therefore, the no brainer design direction is to reflect those values in the design of the desktop computer / interface.
[10:59] <nysosym> yes, that's the trend, life your life on a PC, without a feeling that u use a PC. So many portals for people, games, blogs, video communitys ect.
[10:59] <nysosym> that feeling should be banned on the desktop
[11:00] <nysosym> and again, these will be possible with multitouch displays
[11:00] <troy_s> Realistically, Ubuntu is a perfect candidate to establish the newer trend.
[11:00] <troy_s> It simply 'fits' too well.
[11:00] <nysosym> fresh design in combination with a new input method will be the best thing to give people these feelings
[11:03] <troy_s> Ok.  I must run out to pick up some things for the house.  Chat soon.
[11:03] <troy_s> Great chatting with you again nysosym .
[11:03] <nysosym> ok, have a nice day and hope to have such a nice conversation soon ;)
[11:03] <nysosym> in that way http://rebron.org/blogarchives/pimpzilla.jpg
[11:04] <troy_s> LOL
[11:04] <troy_s> that's hilarious
[11:04] <troy_s> Awsome
[11:04] <nysosym> these are although a very nice structur ;)
[11:04] <troy_s> _hilarious_
[11:04] <troy_s> Hell that is funny.
[11:05] <nysosym> yes, but something new ;)
[11:05] <troy_s> Do you get your private messages?
[11:05] <msikma> Hmm, that screenshot is Dutch
[11:05] <troy_s> That is damn funny
[11:05] <nysosym> yes i get them all :)
[11:22] <nysosym> troy_s: ?
[11:32] <nysosym> jabber has lost the connection
[11:58] <nysosym> hi darkmatter
[11:59] <darkmatter> good afternoon nysosym
[11:59] <nysosym> how are u? :)
[12:01] <darkmatter> me?? I'm doing alright... just woke up actually. How are you doing?
[12:08] <nysosym> i need some sleep, but i have no reaction to do that ^^