[12:16] <hak0> Riddell: the ideia beind apt-build is the same as Portage from gentoo , as in build and automating the build for the current hardware/processor , in an automated form , i know i can do apt-get source and rebuild (at least if if i can find the main source package for building X), in the end could rebuild my system to the latest sources/binaryes using only command "apt-build world"
[12:17] <hak0> Riddell: if you had a P3 450mhz like i have you could understand why i want to optimise all i can
[12:18] <Riddell> if I had a 450Mhz machine I wouldn't want to recompile xorg :)
[12:18] <hak0> anyway thanks , it's my fight :)
[12:19] <hak0> :) yes , sounds crazy, but whit distcc and my brother amd64 it could became a dream come true ;)
[12:20] <hak0> use the src luke , inst always that the frase , it's what i am doing it , or do u sugest Vista on my machine :)
[12:22] <hak0> i wish xchat had spell checking ..........
[12:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: can you imagin there are things in debian/changelog that have been done in the source..... appears in .diff.gz
[12:57] <Tonio_> not a patch
[12:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: fontconfig package is crap !
[01:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: looks like a kde bug....
[01:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: sans-serif looks normal in gtk apps (gnome, firefox) but fails in kde apps
[01:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: I even tried to sync the fonts with gtk-qt-engines, firefox looks normal........
[01:13] <Tonio_> that's weird........
[01:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: confirmed, no issue with speedcrunch too....
[01:16] <Tonio_> so I guess that's a fontconfig update that revealed a kde bug...
[01:42] <Tonio_> Lure: ping ?
[02:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm trying to rebuild qt against new fontconfig...
[02:25] <Zerlinna> Does anyone of you already know if he'll come to LinuxTag in Berlin? (may 30th - june 2nd)
[02:26] <Zerlinna> Riddell maybe? ;)
[05:26] <nixternal> gnomefreak: ping?
[06:56] <Lure> Riddell: problems...
[06:56] <Lure> Failed to fetch http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/edgy-dist-upgrade/./python-kde3_3.15.2+20060422-2ubuntu4.1_i386.deb  Size mismatch
[06:56] <Lure> Failed to fetch http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/edgy-dist-upgrade/./python-kde3-dev_3.15.2+20060422-2ubuntu4.1_all.deb  Size mismatch
[06:56] <Lure> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[09:37] <PaGuX_> hi  folks i am making  make kubuntu clone of Mac OS X called KOS XX
[09:38] <PaGuX_> i plan implement all Mac OS X features
[09:38] <PaGuX_> using linux pakages already available
[09:40] <PaGuX_> http://pagux.com/pics/linux.png
[10:16] <yuriy> PaGuX: neat...sorta.  why no dock?
[11:25] <Tonio_> Lure: are you there ?
[11:44] <GNUro> good morning!!
[12:16] <Lure> Tonio_: yep
[12:26] <Tonio_> Lure: the font issue is very strange
[12:26] <Tonio_> that's due to fontconfig, but only affects qt3
[12:27] <Tonio_> no issue with sans-serif on gtk apps
[12:27] <Tonio_> so I suspect a qt3 bug discovered after fontconfig issue
[12:27] <Tonio_> something like that
[12:27] <Tonio_> but that looks like very hard to patch
[12:30] <Lure> Tonio_: :-(
[12:31] <Tonio_> qt isn't impacted too...
[12:31] <Tonio_> Lure: change all the fonts to sans-serif and test speedcrunch, no pb
[12:32] <Tonio_> no pb in firefox to, even with gtk-qt-engines to sync with kde fonts
[12:32] <Tonio_> ans pure qt apps like qtparted are affected too
[12:32] <Tonio_> so that really looks like an issue with qt
[12:32] <Tonio_> Lure: so I tried to rebuild qt against the new fontconfig which is a builddep
[12:32] <Tonio_> no change unfortunatelly
[12:33] <Lure> Tonio_: it may be some new setup in fontconfig, that qt3 does not understand...
[12:33] <Tonio_> only a qt expert can fix this I'm affraid...
[12:33] <Tonio_> Lure: probably yes
[12:33] <Lure> Tonio_: do we have latest qt3?
[12:33] <Tonio_> but the config in the new fontconfig is exactly the same as before
[12:33] <Tonio_> except it is splitted in several files with conf.d
[12:33] <Tonio_> that's all
[12:34] <Tonio_> Lure: I think so yes....
[12:34] <Tonio_> Lure: it would be interesting to compare with others distros
[12:34] <Tonio_> is debian impacted too ?
[12:34] <Lure> Tonio_: maybe we should check other distro (FC7, Suse 10.3) if they have new fontconfig and any qt/fontconfig patch
[12:34] <Lure> Tonio_: do not know
[12:34] <Tonio_> hehe, yes, that's my feeling too
[12:37] <hunger_t> I noticed some fonts are displayed (and printed) in plain whenever I switch them to bold in OOo. They are displayed in bold by default. Is that the issue you were just talking about?
[12:39] <Tonio_> hunger_t: that's different issue
[12:39] <hunger> Tonio_: Thanks for the info.
[12:40] <Tonio_> hunger: you're welcompe :)
[12:40] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: hi ;) wanted to talk with me yesterday ?
[12:40] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: heya :)
[12:40] <Tonio_> :)
[12:41] <fdoving> Tonio_: how can one reproduce this font bug you're talking about?
[12:41] <Tonio_> fdoving: simply set kde fonts to "sans-serif"
[12:41] <Tonio_> and look at the terrible result...
[12:42] <Tonio_> &&&&"'(
[12:42] <Tonio_> oups
[12:42] <Tonio_> cleaning my keyboard sorry :)
[12:49] <fdoving> Tonio_: sans serif looks good here.
[12:49] <fdoving> i only changed the general font, though.
[12:50] <Tonio_> fdoving: on feisty ?
[12:50] <fdoving> yes.
[12:50] <fdoving> feisty ppc.
[12:51] <Tonio_> can you give me a screenshot plz ?
[12:51] <Tonio_> that's interesting
[12:51] <Tonio_> fdoving: maybe you just don't "see" the change
[12:53] <fdoving> http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kmenu-sansserif.png
[12:53] <Tonio_> fdoving: there is a bug :)
[12:54] <Tonio_> fdoving: look at dejavu
[12:54] <Tonio_> sans-serif is supposed to be dejavu ;)
[12:54] <Tm_T> fdoving: Norge?
[12:54] <fdoving> Tm_T: ja.
[12:54] <Tm_T> Hej. :)
[12:54] <Tonio_> in fact sans serif is kind of a virtual font, using the good one depending your charset
[12:54] <Tonio_> for you and I it should use dejavu or bitstream vera
[12:55] <Tonio_> it doesn't
[12:55] <fdoving> what's the problem with the text on my screenshot? it's sans serif, and it doesn't look bad.
[12:56] <Tonio_> fdoving: it SHOULD look exactly like with dejavu
[12:56] <fdoving> why?
[12:56] <Tonio_> fdoving: the problem is that the same font doesn't render the same way with qt and gtk
[12:56] <fdoving> dejavu serif?
[12:56] <Tonio_> that's bad for a good desktop integration :)
[12:56] <Tonio_> fdoving: yes
[12:56] <Tonio_> no !!! deja vu
[12:57] <Tonio_> not serif, sans-serif is french in fact ;) means "without serif"
[12:57] <Tonio_> so just look dejavu or bitstream vera sans
[12:57] <fdoving> dejavu sans?
[12:57] <Tonio_> they are the same :) dejavu is just an alias for dejavu sans
[12:58] <fdoving> i don't have 'DejaVu'
[12:58] <Tonio_> fdoving: yes that's another bug ;)
[12:58] <fdoving> dejavu sans is broken.
[12:58] <Tonio_> kde doesn't show all types and aliases....
[12:58] <Tonio_> fdoving: because of the "light" ?
[12:58] <Tonio_> just put "normal"
[12:58] <fdoving> oh what a useless default.
[12:58] <Tm_T> Broken =)
[12:58] <Tonio_> fdoving: just use dejavu, normal, size 9
[12:58] <Tm_T> fdoving: Yeah, it's bad.
[12:59] <Tonio_> sans-serif should look like this
[12:59] <Tonio_> fdoving: I agree that should be the default :)
[12:59] <Tonio_> fdoving: do you see the difference ?
[01:00] <fdoving> http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kmenu-djavusans.png vs http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kmenu-sansserif.png
[01:01] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: 05:18 < Tonio_> I prefer to spend 5 minutes fixing a bug on feisty than 2 month for edgy...   <-- Can i quote you on that?
[01:03] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: please do.... I'd like this process to be changed, really
[01:03] <Tonio_> the control is important, be depends on what the fix is....
[01:04] <Tonio_> 50 verifications for a simple .install file change to remove a duplicate file is ridiculous....
[01:04] <Tonio_> fdoving: they look different
[01:04] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: indeed.
[01:04] <Tonio_> fdoving: you may have high DPI settings, so the change isn't that easy too see :)
[01:04] <fdoving> Tonio_: they do, i suspect sans serif doesn't default to Dejavu sans.
[01:05] <fdoving> Tonio_: i'm at 100DPI.
[01:05] <Tonio_> fdoving: it is supposed to, and does for gtk
[01:05] <Tonio_> fdoving: did you set the size to 9 ?
[01:05] <fdoving> no, 8.
[01:05] <Tonio_> fdoving: put 9 you'll se the big difference :)
[01:05] <Tonio_> fontconfig defaults sans-serif to dejavu
[01:05] <Tonio_> works with qt4 and gtk/gnome
[01:05] <Tonio_> only fails with qt3 or kde
[01:06] <Tonio_> that's wy I suspect a bug in qt3
[01:06] <Tonio_> I'll put the infos and results of my test on the reported bug on launchpad
[01:06] <Tonio_> I'll probably default kds to dejavu if we cannot fix this.... but I'd like to avoid that, since default dejavu creates other issues with specific charsets
[01:08] <fdoving> why would kde/qt override what fontconfig says?
[01:08] <fdoving> did you check qtconfig-qt3?
[01:08] <fdoving> you can set font substitutions there.
[01:09] <Tonio_> fdoving: yes, but it should follow fontconfig in the first palce
[01:09] <Tonio_> note that the bug only appears withlatest fontconfig, no issue with the edgy version ;)
[01:09] <Tonio_> that's the tricky part
[01:09] <fdoving> so fontconfig is broken.
[01:09] <Tonio_> we can workarround the issue, but there is a real bug in the way qt3 deals with fontconfig
[01:10] <Tonio_> fdoving: no, that's qt since it works with gtk and qt4 :)
[01:10] <Tonio_> that's the strange thing
[01:10] <Tonio_> new fontconfig only creates an issue with qt3
[01:10] <Hobbsee> bah, just bring in qt4 :P
[01:10] <fdoving> revert fontconfig to the previous version.
[01:11] <Tonio_> fdoving: if it were a fontconfig bug, that would impact all APIs
[01:11] <Tonio_> not only one version of one of them
[01:11] <fdoving> well, a new fontconfig creates a problem in one of the apis, i guess that means fontconfig changed something that used to work.
[01:15] <Tonio_> fdoving: possibly but hard to find out what ;)
[01:20] <fdoving> Tonio_: related to this http://www.debianhelp.org/node/2755 ?
[01:21] <Lure> Riddell: ping?
[01:23] <fdoving> Tonio_: if it is related, the last comment says it's fixed in qt 3.3.7-2
[01:25] <fdoving> Tonio_: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/q/qt-x11-free/qt-x11-free_3.3.7-3/changelog
[01:25] <fdoving> see the -2 comment
[01:26] <fdoving>    * debian/patches/61_fcfontmatch_fontwidth_fix.dpatch
[01:26] <fdoving> that's what we want.
[01:26] <fdoving> i belive.
[01:39] <Tonio_> fdoving: ahhhhhhhhhhh
[01:39] <Tonio_> fdoving: will test this !
[01:39] <fdoving> and what's with the new dpkg-source?
[01:40] <fdoving> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
[01:40] <Tonio_> fdoving: I read that changelog yesterday, but I missed that
[01:40] <fdoving> so i'm forced to change the maintainer field. not nice on SRUs.
[01:40] <Tonio_> fdoving: yeah I saw that.... you have to change le maintainer and fill the "old-maintainer"
[01:40] <Tonio_> that's a pitty ;)
[01:40] <Tonio_> fdoving: are you testing the build ?
[01:40] <fdoving> i was going to, but i'd prefer if you do it.
[01:40] <fdoving> my laptop is not very fast :)
[01:41] <Tonio_> okay
[01:42] <Tonio_> fdoving: that was in the -1 version.... that's why I missed this
[01:42] <Tonio_> -2 sorry ;)
[01:42] <fdoving> it was in the -2, yes.
[01:43] <Tonio_> fdoving: building, we'll see what about.....
[01:43] <fdoving> i'm building too, so we can compare :)
[01:43] <Tonio_> sounds interesting, and looks like ressembling to our problem
[02:32] <Tonio_> fdoving: I'm uploading the built qt on my repo if you wanna test
[02:33] <fdoving> Tonio_: did you make .ppc packages too ? :)
[02:33] <Tonio_> fdoving: no ;)
[02:33] <Tonio_> fdoving: I don't have a mac.... I just ordered one, but that's a macintel
[02:34] <fdoving> macbook pro?
[02:34] <Tonio_> yup
[02:34] <fdoving> i'm considering one too.
[02:34] <Tonio_> fdoving: I have to go.... I'll test during the we....
[02:34] <fdoving> but i think i'm leaning towards a dell latitude d620 instead.
[02:34] <Tonio_> let's hope it'll work !
[02:34] <fdoving> ok.
[02:34] <fdoving> bye.
[02:35] <Tonio_> hum for the same config dell is more expensive than apple
[02:35] <Tonio_> at least in france
[02:35] <fdoving> yes, here too, but they have the next business day service thing.
[02:35] <Tonio_> in fact I was surprised, but apple is the cheapest with the same config....
[02:36] <fdoving> i know.
[02:36] <Tonio_> even acer is more expensive....
[02:36] <Tonio_> okay I'm left ! seya ;)
[02:36] <fdoving> bye.
[02:36] <Tonio_> girlfriend asking for me :)
[06:57] <Riddell> Lure: what news?
[06:58] <Lure> Riddell: just started adept_updater
[06:58] <Lure> Riddell: will write report... ;-)
[06:59] <Lure> Riddell: text messages in GUI seems to be cut
[06:59] <Lure> Riddell: "A new version of Kubuntu is available. Click next if you want to"
[06:59] <Lure> Riddell: "Downloading and verifying the upg"
[07:00] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/adept2.png ?
[07:01] <Lure> Riddell: yes, but it is cut as written above
[07:01] <Lure> after clicking "Finish", nothing happened...
[07:02] <Riddell> fooey
[07:02] <Riddell> what's in /tmp/kde-root?
[07:02] <Riddell> should be a directory named adept-asdf-extract/
[07:03] <Lure> Riddell: nothing...
[07:03] <Lure> Riddell: sorry, was checking as regular user
[07:04] <Riddell> it needs to be root
[07:04] <Lure> Riddell: so I need to run manual install of python-kde3-dev and stuff now?
[07:05] <Riddell> shouldn't need -dev
[07:05] <Lure> Riddell: or just start python dist-upgrader.py --frontend DistUpgradeViewKDE
[07:05] <Riddell> but you do need kubuntu-desktop installed
[07:05] <Riddell> but it needs to download the tool first
[07:05] <Lure> Riddell: I have
[07:05] <Riddell> you have or adept has?
[07:06] <Lure> Riddell: I have kubuntu-desktop installed, but not sure how to start upgrader now
[07:06] <Lure> Riddell: is it dist-upgrader.py or dist-upgrade.py (wrong name on wiki?)
[07:06] <Riddell> well adept should start it
[07:07] <Lure> Riddell: it did not :-(
[07:07] <Riddell> did you run adept_updater as root?
[07:07] <Lure> kdesu adept_upgrader
[07:07] <Riddell> and did it download anything?
[07:08] <Lure> it did, and I have this /tmp/kde-root/*-extract dir with .py files
[07:08] <Lure> Riddell: can it be wrong name of script (see above)?
[07:08] <Riddell> but adept just quit?
[07:08] <Riddell> wiki will be wrong
[07:09] <Lure> Riddell: adept just offered "Finish" to start new tool and nothing happended (also nothing on console afair)
[07:09] <Lure> Riddell: I will retry now (adept_upgrader...)
[07:09] <Lure> Riddell: shoudl I clean up /tmp/kde-root first (to be on the safe side?)
[07:10] <Riddell> doesn't matter
[07:11] <Lure> Riddell: now download was either very fast or not needed...
[07:12] <Lure> Riddell: check screenshots on http://lure.lu.funpic.de/tmp/ (UPG-xxx.png)
[07:13] <Riddell> hmm, something broken with the labels not expanding to your font size there
[07:14] <Riddell> did it run?
[07:14] <Lure> Riddell: no - konsole output is here: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/62
[07:15] <Lure> Riddell: should I start it by hand?
[07:15] <Riddell> nothing else on the command line?
[07:16] <Lure> Riddell: no. I can try running strace...
[07:16] <Riddell> yes do run it by hand (and fix the typo in the wiki if you want)
[07:18] <Lure> Riddell: I have strace output - if interested, I can send it by mail...
[07:19] <Riddell> of adept?
[07:20] <Lure> Riddell: that explains it:
[07:20] <Lure> dist-upgrade.py: cannot connect to X server :0
[07:20] <Lure> Riddell: yep strace of adept_updater
[07:20] <Riddell> err huh?
[07:20] <Riddell> that from running it by hand or with adept?
[07:21] <Riddell> the x error
[07:21] <Lure> Riddell: by hand
[07:21] <Lure> Riddell: sudo -i, then "python ./dist-upgrade.py --frontend DistUpgradeViewKDE"
[07:22] <Riddell> just do  sudo python ./dist-upgrade.py --frontend DistUpgradeViewKDE
[07:24] <Lure> Riddell: crash: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/63
[07:25] <Riddell> meh
[07:25] <Riddell> I've no idea
[07:26] <Lure> Riddell: me neither ;-)
[07:26] <Riddell> could try the Gtk frontend I guess
[07:26] <Riddell> but it doesn't look like a frontend error
[07:29] <Lure> Riddell: no, it does not help - just trows error on konsole
[07:29] <Riddell> what does?
[07:31] <Lure> Riddell: I get the same traceback, just on console if I strip "KDE" in argument
[07:32] <Lure> Riddell: it looks like some config/input file is not correct
[07:32] <Lure> Riddell: I will probably leave my edgy install for future tests and will rather do clean Herd4 install today
[07:35] <Riddell> Lure: thanks
[07:41] <Lure> Riddell: no problem, just ping me when you want me to test again
[07:42] <jpetso> Riddell: ping
[07:42] <Riddell> hi jpetso
[07:42] <jpetso> Riddell: I noticed that Kubuntu Feisty is using my TotallyClear Kopete style
[07:43] <jpetso> Riddell: well, actually, the style is not from me, it's just a variation, but anyways
[07:44] <jpetso> Riddell: I got the style into Kopete 0.12.1 as "No avatars" variant of the Clear style, but it got lost because I forgot to add it to Makefile.am
[07:44] <jpetso> Riddell: which I just fixed
[07:45] <Riddell> ah
[07:45] <Riddell> Tonio_ ^^
[07:45] <Riddell> jpetso: Tonio_'s the dude who's been playing with kopete
[07:45] <jpetso> Riddell, Tonio_: so you might want to configure Kopete to use "the real thing" instead of the seperate style
[07:45] <jpetso> Riddell, Tonio_: http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/3.5/kdenetwork/kopete/styles/Clear/Contents/Resources/Variants/No_avatars.css?rev=634596&view=rev
[07:45] <jpetso> Riddell, Tonio_: the fix.
[07:46] <jpetso> er, i mean
[07:47] <jpetso> er, no, it's ok, the link works fine
[07:51] <Tm_T> Mooh.
[08:16] <Tm_T> jpetso: Thanks again, good work there. :)
[09:46] <jjesse> hmm running feisty with all udpates, it seems the splash screen stops halfway through for me and i get the "old" text bootup w/ all the messages
[09:46] <jjesse> anyone else seeing that?
[09:47] <ScottK> Not me.  You should ask in #ubuntu+1
[09:48] <jjesse> why ubuntu+1 and not to the kubuntu devs?
[09:49] <ScottK> More people there on the weekend and you don't really have a development question (yet).
[10:16] <_StefanS_> hi there
[10:26] <yuriy> jjesse: yeah i get that too, as of a couple days ago
[10:29] <jjesse> yuriy: do you think a bug should be reported?
[10:33] <yuriy> i guess so
[10:33] <yuriy> i'll turn on my laptop now to make sure it happens
[10:34] <yuriy> jjesse: yep
[10:35] <jjesse> yuriy: do you want to report the bug or should i?
[10:36] <yuriy> jjesse: you, i'm off to eat and stuff
[10:40] <jjesse> yuriy: ok thanks
[10:50] <jjesse> yuriy: reported as bug #85893, hopefully i reported it correctly
[10:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85893 in kubuntu-default-settings "[Feisty]  Kubuntu -- Problems w/ usplash and boot process" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85893
[10:52] <yuriy> so much for that idea
[10:53] <jjesse> sorry to bring you back from dinner
[10:53] <yuriy> there is no dinner
[10:53] <jjesse> oh, you said you were leaving for food
[10:53] <yuriy> i have break starting today and they closed all the cafeterias already
[10:53] <jjesse> ah bummer
[10:53] <yuriy> i guess it's about time to head home
[10:54] <yuriy> i think it's more likely a usplash bug than k-d-s, but we should see if anybody on ubuntu has it
[10:54] <jjesse> so i filed it against the correct package?
[10:55] <jjesse> sorry got confusde, i thought i selected usplash
[10:55] <fdoving> kubuntu-artwork-usplash comes from the kubuntu-default-settings source package.
[10:56] <yuriy> it's the theme
[10:56] <jjesse> ok
[10:57] <jjesse> the more i play/dig into feisty the more i like the changes/improvements
[10:58] <yuriy> yeah it's nice. and polyester is nice, except for the bright purple scroll bars
[10:58] <yuriy> those are irritating
[10:58] <fdoving> the more i play with c++, the more i understand that i don't understand. :)
[10:58] <yuriy> ( ^ kwwii :) )
[10:59] <jjesse> just notifed those purple scroll bars, must be a recent change?
[10:59] <yuriy> yeah
[11:01] <hunger> When was kcontrol broken?
[11:02] <yuriy> hmm?
[11:02] <hunger> It does no longer contain any config modules (well, two pretty useless ones are left).
[11:02] <hunger> yuriy: Run kcontrol and see for yourself.
[11:02] <hunger> OBEX devices are still left... the rest went missing.
[11:03] <jjesse> i'm not seeing that
[11:03] <yuriy> me neither, i have all the modules
[11:03] <hunger> jjesse: I see the usual stuff in guidance, but kcontrol is empty:-(
[11:09] <yuriy> i vaguely remember seeing a bug like that but i can't find it
[11:10] <jjesse> is system settings the same as guidance?
[11:10] <Riddell> no
[11:10] <hunger> yuriy: guidance is what you can access via the menus AFAICT.
[11:11] <jjesse> another follow up question: when i click on the handbook in system settings it launches khelpcenter with an error message about not finding the handbook
[11:11] <jjesse> yet it seems like there are two entries in helpcenter for system settings
[11:11] <jjesse> btw hello Riddell
[11:11] <yuriy> system settings is what you can access via the menus, guidance is a set of 4-5 modules in there
[11:11] <jjesse> yuriy: thanks for explaining
[11:14] <hunger> The new theme finally highlights active tabs properly!
[11:15] <hunger> Would it be possible to apply the same highlighting to those tabs on the left/right/buttom of kdevelop? Or are those something different?
[11:17] <jjesse> i hate my laptop
[12:13] <Tm_T> Err.