UbugtuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: February 16 2007, 23:15:21 - Next meeting: Xubuntu in 15 hours 44 minutes12:15
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juliux@schedule berlin03:07
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team03:08
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team
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cbx33highvoltage, ?04:10
highvoltagecbx33: meant to ping somerville32, my connection just went a bit dodgy there for a while04:11
somerville32Oh right04:11
somerville32Meeting time :)04:11
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somerville32I've been away in the hospital for the last little while so I'm a bit disorientated.04:14
somerville32Luckily they let me come home for a weekend :)04:14
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highvoltagehow's janimo doing? been a while since I heard from him04:14
somerville32I heard RL is getting to him04:15
somerville32ie. consuming more and more time04:15
somerville32I've never seen him on IRC04:15
somerville32Just correspondence via e-mail04:15
highvoltageyeah, email seems the best way to stay in touch04:15
highvoltagesomerville32: did you get any other pongbacks for the xubuntu meeting?04:16
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32Errmm... not yet04:16
somerville32This time has never really been too good04:16
somerville32We might need to change it04:16
somerville32The wednesday meetings tend to get more people04:17
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highvoltageseems so, yes04:17
highvoltagefor some people weekends seem to be better sometimes04:17
highvoltageperhaps alternate it?04:17
somerville32We do, Wedo04:17
somerville32Wednesday and Saturday04:17
=== highvoltage has been out of touch with xubuntu meetings
somerville32Hopefully a few more people show up because there is a concrete agenda for today04:18
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highvoltageI would probably be away now if I didn't get a burn on my arm from my motorbike today04:18
highvoltagebut I'll make a point of being here more often for the meetings04:19
somerville32Awesome :)04:19
cbx33how many people are involved in xubuntu...if you don't mind my asking04:19
somerville32Tough question04:20
somerville324-6 different people, I'd say04:20
highvoltageas far as I understand, janimo packages most of the core packages, and then there's a cloud of xubuntu around that04:20
highvoltagethe xfce packages from xubuntu are going on the second edubuntu cd as well04:21
somerville32Janimo, Gpocentrek, Crimsun, and myself too most of the packaging stuff04:21
highvoltagethat might help xubuntu in the long run04:21
somerville32Thats pretty cool04:21
somerville32How is Edubuntu doing with testing?04:22
cbx33highvoltage, AWESOME04:22
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somerville32Thats someone we're struggling with04:22
hyper_chmay I ask something?04:22
cbx33testing it always hard04:22
somerville32hyper_ch, Sure :)04:22
hyper_chwhat I wonder is the following: When I install Ubuntu (for example) and then do sudo aptitude install xubuntu-desktop --> why isn't it the same as when I install xubuntu directly?04:23
highvoltagesomerville32: cbx33 is probably edubuntu's most prominent tester, probably followed by myself04:23
highvoltagesomerville32: well, except from ogra, that is04:23
cbx33I test, but I suppose I dev more and more lately04:23
highvoltagesomerville32: some schools also switch to the next version before release, giving good feedback04:23
kalikianahyper_ch, what is different exactly?04:23
hyper_chkalikiana: can't tell... it just doesn't look the same and hasn't the same appz installed as by a default installation of xubuntu04:24
hyper_chsame goes if I install xubuntu and then add kubuntu-desktop04:24
hyper_chand so on04:24
graziesomerville32: I was getting iinvolved with doing some xubuntu testing..i contacted jani about it..but now the ppc plus has been pulled it changes things :(04:26
kalikianais it possibly fewer apps as in 'required' but without some optional things? i didn't actually notice that.04:26
grazies/plus/plug/ ^^04:26
=== somerville32 nods.
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somerville32Today we need to discuss artwork, documentation, and testing04:27
somerville32I'd first like to focus on how we can improve testing to ensure that we get pre-releases out on time.04:27
somerville32I get the impression that people do test but maybe don't report it?04:28
JmakHey, I am here04:28
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JmakIam working on some icons04:30
somerville32Hi Jmak04:30
somerville32We're just discussing testing04:30
JmakI am testing feisty so far everything works great04:30
somerville32I think to resolve the issue with testing, we simply need to promote it more and make sure we're promoting the correct way of reporting so that the pre-releases get released automatically04:31
=== cbx33 can proabably throw in a quick test of xubuntu feisty later in the week if that'll help
somerville32cbx33, It would be a big help :)04:31
graziesomerville32: for myself...reports failures is fine...reporting passes is tedious..hence coverage is not recorded04:31
highvoltagesomerville32: I test Xubuntu packages regularly for work purposes04:31
cbx33I'll set it downloading now04:31
highvoltagesomerville32: but I don't report back on Xubuntu stuff04:31
highvoltagesomerville32: so I'll make a point of giving more feedback04:31
cbx33install or desktop?04:31
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somerville32highvoltage, Maybe there are ways to facilitate communication with Edubuntu and Xubuntu with regarding to testing to prevent duplications of efforts.04:32
graziesomerville32: I think a webform for test coverage would be good04:33
highvoltagesomerville32: absolutely04:33
somerville32How do people find using launchpad?04:36
somerville32Isn't that what we're suppose to be using these days?04:36
highvoltagemost complaints are about the UI and the licensing04:36
highvoltagethe UI is getting an overhaul, though04:36
highvoltagesome people have posted screenshots of the new lp interface04:36
somerville32Linkie? :)04:37
=== highvoltage looks for it
grazieLP it's mostly good. However more assistance in what package to report against would be a big improvement04:38
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highvoltageegh, I can't find it, I read it on planet ubuntu about a week ago04:39
somerville32Isn't there one specific package you're suppose to report ISO testing to?04:41
highvoltagehere's the post: http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=32104:42
highvoltagecan't remember where I saw the screenshots though04:42
graziesomerville32: yes, but when a bug is found bug report is also needed04:43
kalikianaI may say that I do like launchpad. Two drawbacks: license and random errors, but I think they've been working on the errors.04:43
hyper_chbtw, I have herd2 installed and it works good except that I was not able to run vmware04:44
highvoltagehyper_ch: it's best to test with the latest alpha, it might be fixed in herd4 now04:44
highvoltagehyper_ch: it might also be possible that you just need to install the kernal headers package, since vmware would not ship pre-compiled modules for feisty yet04:45
somerville32Xubuntu has been unable to release herd 3 and herd 404:45
hyper_chhighvoltage: well, I haven't tested it so far again because I used the same /home as in edgy and the quicklauncher was replaced... feisty doesn't like the one from edgy and vice-versa04:45
somerville32I'd like to be able to get the release candidate out04:45
highvoltageoh wow, ok04:45
grazierync is excellent for keeping up to date!04:45
somerville32grazie: The issue is that the distro team won't release it until we can prove we've tested the ISOs04:46
Jmaksomerville32: take a look at the new terminal icon, i just emailed to the list04:46
=== somerville32 nods at Jmak.
somerville32I dunno if it is because of lack of man power or lack of reports04:46
graziesomerville32: what proof do they need?04:46
somerville32Just people saying it worked04:47
somerville32Same as the other distros04:47
graziesomerville32: that can be arranged :)04:48
somerville32Does Edubuntu have a testing team?04:48
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highvoltagesomerville32: it does. it's fairly loose, there's a team in LP too04:49
highvoltagesomerville32: and a bunch of wiki pages for co-ordination04:49
somerville32highvoltage, Do you find it effective?04:49
highvoltagesomerville32: it could be better, but so far it has worked well04:49
highvoltagesomerville32: we'll need something better as edubuntu becomes more complicated04:50
highvoltagesomerville32: the benefig that edubuntu has is, it uses the exact same desktop environment as ubuntu, so it gets a lot of free testing there04:50
=== somerville32 nods.
highvoltagesomerville32: i think xubuntu's testing is even a bit more work than with edubuntu04:50
somerville32The biggest thing is making sure the ISOs are tested for us04:50
graziesomerville32: I suppose what I really meant is that saying that the iso's worked can easily be faked :(04:50
highvoltageah I see04:51
j1mcsomerville32, i had a great install experience with the nightlies leading up to herd4.04:51
somerville32j1mc: Did you report that?04:51
j1mcno  :(04:51
somerville32See, we need that04:51
somerville32We need to get an official testing team together maybe04:52
j1mci'm mostly on xubuntu-user mailing list.04:52
somerville32j1mc: Would you like to head up an Xubuntu testing team?04:52
j1mcwhat would it entail?  are there other examples of testing teams?04:52
somerville32IT seems like you already do quite a bit of testing04:53
somerville32So you'd just need to recruit a few more people to help you out and schedule regular testing04:53
somerville32Especially just before a pre-release04:53
somerville32So that we can release an image as the pre-release04:54
j1mcsure.  i think i can do that.04:54
somerville32What platforms can you test on?04:54
j1mcjust i386 right now.04:54
j1mci could get another machine pretty easily.  i volunteer for free geek chicago04:55
=== somerville32 nods.
j1mcwe use xubuntu there, so they'd be willing to donate a machine.04:55
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32So you'd just need to find a few dedicated individuals who could help test the other official platforms too04:56
somerville32Awesome! :)04:56
j1mcand then get them to report their results.  :)04:56
=== somerville32 hands j1mc the "Xubuntu ISO QA Manager" hat.
=== j1mc accepts hat
somerville32I directed the testing for Herd 2 so we'll have to get together to chat ASAP.04:57
somerville32I'll pass off everything I have to you04:57
j1mci think you set up a wiki about testing, so i'll want to look at that.04:57
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32You'll also want to review all the ISO qa stuff you can find on the wiki for the other derivatives too to see how we can improve our processes.04:58
j1mci emailed you about xubuntu-docs, so you have my email address04:58
somerville32Ok, aweosme04:58
somerville32*awesome :)04:58
j1mci work at a healthcare software company (just in the HR dept, though), but I know some QA people.  i can talk w/ them about what they do for QA, too.05:00
somerville32Awesome :)05:00
somerville32If things go well, your position might evolve into a more general Xubuntu QA guy if you'd like05:00
somerville32Up to you :)05:00
somerville32But for now, we need to focus on the ISO testing for upcoming Feisty Release (yea!!) :D05:01
j1mcSounds great, somerville32 (the initial testing for Feisty, that is)  :)05:01
j1mci'll be in touch with you05:01
somerville32I feel much better about that now that there is someone leading that up05:02
somerville32Thanks a bunch j1mc05:02
somerville32Next on the agenda is Artwork, Jmak :)05:02
hyper_chbtw, I had one big problem with feisty... I have IDE and SDA drives and after the isntall everything was mixed up.... grub wasn't able to select/assign them correctly05:05
j1mchaha  j1mc++  :)05:05
somerville32j1mc: A good person to chat with is sfflaw as he heads up ubuntu-qa (which extends to Xubuntu)05:05
hyper_chbut that's not xubuntu specific05:05
j1mcthanks . . .  i'll note that.05:06
somerville32Jmak, ping05:06
j1mcJmak, I think the new terminal icon looks great.05:07
somerville32Jmak, Did any of the new artwork get uploaded yet?05:08
j1mcSeems like Jmak is away . . . is there another agenda item that we can go to, and then come back to artwork?05:08
j1mcYessss  :)05:09
JmakThey are on the wike page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty/Incoming05:09
j1mcoh, there's Jmak.  back to artwork then.05:10
somerville32But nothing has been uploaded to the repositories?05:10
Jmakas far as know none05:11
somerville32I'll upload some of it05:11
somerville32Anything else you'd like to touch on jmak?05:11
j1mcOne thing I like about ubuntu's new GDM login is that the font has a bit more weight to it.  perhaps it's just bolded, but it looks more professional.05:11
JmakWe have to decide on the use of icons05:12
JmakDropline looks great05:12
=== cbx33 now has the install iso
cbx33I'll give it a go05:14
somerville32cbx33, Thanks05:14
somerville32Dropline isn't bad05:14
JmakI like it too05:15
somerville32Is it complete?05:15
JmakThe most popular icon set on the gnome look org05:15
JmakVery complete05:15
j1mcfwiw, i think the gion icon set looks great, too.05:16
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somerville32Jmak: Do you have a "package" to present yet?05:16
JmakBut that one not very complate05:16
JmakWhat package?05:17
somerville32Like, you're going to have to present a package that includes all the changes you'd like to make so that we can see what it looks like05:17
somerville32And then if it gets approved, it gets implemented05:17
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JmakThe artworks on the wiki are now, pretty complate05:18
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somerville32It is hard to navigate and see what is decided05:20
somerville32I dunno what should be changed to accomplish what you want05:20
somerville32I just a few screenshots here and there05:20
JmakI already sent some time ago the xubuntu.xml to the list, I hope someone saved that too05:21
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JmakFrom the wiki I will deleat all artworks except the final ones. Is that ok?05:21
somerville32Please don't05:22
somerville32Create a new wiki page that clearly outlines the gtk theme engine, theme, icons, etc.05:22
somerville32Give each package a name05:22
somerville32And then organize it under that name05:23
j1mcthat sounds like a good approach05:23
somerville32So, if there are a few "packages" that you'd like to propose05:23
somerville32You might nickname them A, B, and C05:23
Jmakall right05:24
somerville32And then you'd create a wiki page for each package and have everything related to it on that page (or linked under that page)05:24
somerville32Make sure to have a clear hierarchy when actually naming the pages05:24
somerville32That way when we visit Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/A it shows us exactly how Xubuntu would look if we went with Option A05:25
Jmaksounds good05:27
somerville32Unfortunately there is a deadline05:27
somerville32Can you get this all done by the 22nd?05:28
somerville32Thats 5 days05:28
JmakSure I can do the weekend05:28
somerville32Ok, perfect.05:28
somerville32After 22nd, we will start voting05:28
somerville32March 15th is the FINAL deadline05:29
somerville32We'll be decided on the artwork at the next meeting05:30
somerville32So please be ready :)05:30
Jmaksounds good05:31
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32Ok, lets talk about Documentation05:31
JmakNow I go and start plannning it05:31
Jmaksee you next time05:31
j1mcthanks, Jmak05:31
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somerville32j1mc: Re testing: Herd 5 will be released March 1st05:32
somerville32I'd really like to see Herd 5 be released via the efforts of your new team :)05:33
j1mcok.  i'll do my best.05:33
somerville32Ok, onto Documentation05:33
somerville32We're doing better then Edgy05:34
somerville32We've seen some small updates05:34
somerville32But nothing substantial has been completed05:34
j1mci saw your spec up.  how does that stand?05:35
j1mci can't remember the name of it off hand.05:35
somerville32That'll have to be deferred to Feisty+105:35
somerville32Where we'll really have to pull up our socks05:35
somerville32For the rest of this release, we should focus on improving current documentation05:35
somerville32ie. removing/updating outdated info05:36
somerville32And adding in new stuff that is applicable05:36
j1mci've been filing just a few bug reports, but would like to file some more.05:36
somerville32We simple do not have time to do the big overhaul that the other derivatives have done with their documentation.05:36
=== somerville32 nods.
hyper_chbtw, how do you select the appz that get added to the standard install?05:36
somerville32j1mc: Are you interested in helping with documentation?05:38
j1mci am, but i don't know docbook xml.  i have the current ubuntu-docs files installed locally via subversion, though.05:38
somerville32It is pretty easy05:38
somerville32It isn't anything special05:39
somerville32I think we should organize a documentation sprint05:39
j1mcyeah . . .  i think that if i'm going to be doing the QA stuff, that i shouldn't try to take on too much writing of documentation.05:39
somerville32Unfortunately, with me being in the hospital currently, I dunno when we could05:39
somerville32j1mc: *nods*05:39
j1mcmy regular job is going to be pretty crazy between now and the end of the month.05:39
=== somerville32 nods.
j1mci plan to do a major bug reporting day, though.  checking links, looking for items that are outdated, etc.05:40
somerville32Alrighty, so we'll try to set a date for a sprint05:40
somerville32Where we all get together on IRC and work on the documentation05:40
somerville32We can discuss the date on the xubuntu-devel and -users mailing list05:40
j1mcwould it be good to have the bugs filed prior to our sprint?05:41
somerville32We'll certainly review the bugs at the sprint05:41
somerville32So it would be a good way to create a todo list if you'd like05:41
somerville32Infact, that would be a wonderful idea05:42
somerville32It would make it easy for new people to find things to do05:42
j1mcyes... it would help to focus our efforts05:42
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32This has been a VERY productive meeting :)05:42
=== somerville32 is happy.
j1mcok . . . i have tomorrow and monday off from work, so look for a bunch of bug reports from me over the next few days.05:43
somerville32highvoltage, What do you call your guy's qa team?05:43
j1mcis that it for documentation?05:45
somerville32I guess so :)05:46
j1mcok, well, we'll get the bugs filed, and then . . . do you want to set a tentative date for the doc-sprint?05:46
somerville32Well, I dunno when I'll be discharged from the hospital and I'd really like to be at the sprint05:47
somerville32Not to say that you can't hold it without me05:47
j1mcno, i think it would be best if you were there.05:47
somerville32We can discuss it on the mailing list and I'll try my best to get there.05:48
j1mcok.  good luck getting better!05:48
somerville32Thanks :)05:48
somerville32If there isn't anything else...05:48
=== somerville32 declares the meeting over.
j1mcthanks, somerville3205:49
somerville32Documentation freeze is March 8th05:55
somerville32Thats 19 days away05:55
j1mcok.  i'll be out of town on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th05:58
j1mcbefore that = work craziness + QA craziness.  i'll file a bunch of bugs this weekend.05:58
hyper_chsomerville32: do you use vmware?06:00
j1mcsomerville32, thanks for the link06:00
somerville32j1mc: I just created it.06:00
somerville32You'll want to fill in the blanks06:00
j1mcstill, thanks.06:00
somerville32j1mc: What is your launchpad id?06:02
=== j1mc thinks it is . . . goes to double-check
j1mcyes, that's correct06:03
somerville32You're now an administrator of the xubuntu-testers team06:04
j1mcthanks . . .06:04
j1mcthat was quick06:04
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Feb 21:30 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
hyper_chif someone could check vmware... that would be great :)06:05
somerville32j1mc: Please make sure that you stick to the wiki hierarchy06:06
somerville32So, there are a few pages under Testing that you'll want to move around06:07
somerville32https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Dapper <-- Dapper Testing Results06:07
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somerville32You might move that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Archive/Dapper06:07
somerville32https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Current <-- Herd 206:07
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somerville32https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short <-- Short test06:07
j1mcif i have questions, i'll be in touch.06:08
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somerville32Have fun! :)06:09
somerville32You're going to want to have clear hierarchies06:09
=== somerville32 giggles excitedly.
j1mchehehe . . .06:10
=== j1mc giggles nervously.
=== j1mc thinks he can handle it, though.
somerville32I'm sure you can06:12
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highvoltagesomerville32: it's called edubuntu-testers06:19
=== somerville32 nods.
highvoltage(sorry for late reply, had to fetch my mom from work and take her home)06:19
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Feb 21:30 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team
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