[12:15] @now [12:15] Current time in Etc/UTC: February 16 2007, 23:15:21 - Next meeting: Xubuntu in 15 hours 44 minutes === pochu [n=pochu@lse2.gotadsl.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["bye!"] === sky_walkie [i=sky_walk@r27s01p03.home.nbox.cz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Tonio_ [n=tonio@28.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra_ [n=ogra@p548ACDDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=Julius@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === EicheS [n=ASUS@190.37.120.19] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === EicheS [n=ASUS@190.37.120.19] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === EicheS [n=ASUS@190.37.120.19] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === EicheS [n=ASUS@190.37.120.19] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Huahua [n=hua_@122.0.231.17] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === philwyett [n=philwyet@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Tonio_ [n=tonio@28.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Tonio_ [n=tonio@28.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === firat [n=firat@88.233.145.115] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === firat [n=firat@88.233.145.115] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [03:07] @schedule berlin [03:08] Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined 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[n=grazie@host86-139-197-68.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DBBF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:04] so === mako_ [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:10] highvoltage, ? [04:11] cbx33: meant to ping somerville32, my connection just went a bit dodgy there for a while [04:11] hehe [04:11] Oh right [04:11] Meeting time :) === mako__ [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === duglas [n=douglas@cpe-24-58-207-250.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:14] I've been away in the hospital for the last little while so I'm a bit disorientated. [04:14] Luckily they let me come home for a weekend :) === issocabin [i=issocabi@219.148.226.141] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:14] nice [04:14] how's janimo doing? been a while since I heard from him [04:15] I heard RL is getting to him [04:15] ie. consuming more and more time [04:15] I've never seen him on IRC [04:15] ah [04:15] Just correspondence via e-mail [04:15] yeah, email seems the best way to stay in touch [04:16] somerville32: did you get any other pongbacks for the xubuntu meeting? === somerville32 nods. [04:16] Errmm... not yet [04:16] lol [04:16] :) [04:16] This time has never really been too good [04:16] We might need to change it [04:17] The wednesday meetings tend to get more people === LordGamer [n=LordGame@74.12.56.244] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:17] seems so, yes [04:17] for some people weekends seem to be better sometimes [04:17] perhaps alternate it? [04:17] We do, Wedo [04:17] Wednesday and Saturday [04:18] d'oh! === highvoltage has been out of touch with xubuntu meetings [04:18] Hopefully a few more people show up because there is a concrete agenda for today === hyper_ch [n=hyper@217-162-77-97.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:18] I would probably be away now if I didn't get a burn on my arm from my motorbike today [04:19] but I'll make a point of being here more often for the meetings [04:19] Awesome :) [04:19] how many people are involved in xubuntu...if you don't mind my asking [04:20] Tough question [04:20] 4-6 different people, I'd say [04:20] as far as I understand, janimo packages most of the core packages, and then there's a cloud of xubuntu around that [04:21] the xfce packages from xubuntu are going on the second edubuntu cd as well [04:21] Janimo, Gpocentrek, Crimsun, and myself too most of the packaging stuff [04:21] s/too/do [04:21] that might help xubuntu in the long run [04:21] :D [04:21] Thats pretty cool [04:22] How is Edubuntu doing with testing? [04:22] highvoltage, AWESOME === kalikiana [n=kalikian@xdsl-87-78-112-232.netcologne.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:22] Thats someone we're struggling with [04:22] may I ask something? [04:22] testing it always hard [04:22] hyper_ch, Sure :) [04:23] what I wonder is the following: When I install Ubuntu (for example) and then do sudo aptitude install xubuntu-desktop --> why isn't it the same as when I install xubuntu directly? [04:23] somerville32: cbx33 is probably edubuntu's most prominent tester, probably followed by myself [04:23] somerville32: well, except from ogra, that is [04:23] indeed [04:23] I test, but I suppose I dev more and more lately [04:23] somerville32: some schools also switch to the next version before release, giving good feedback [04:23] hyper_ch, what is different exactly? [04:24] kalikiana: can't tell... it just doesn't look the same and hasn't the same appz installed as by a default installation of xubuntu [04:24] same goes if I install xubuntu and then add kubuntu-desktop [04:24] and so on [04:26] somerville32: I was getting iinvolved with doing some xubuntu testing..i contacted jani about it..but now the ppc plus has been pulled it changes things :( [04:26] is it possibly fewer apps as in 'required' but without some optional things? i didn't actually notice that. [04:26] s/plus/plug/ ^^ === somerville32 nods. [04:27] Alrighty === mako [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:27] Today we need to discuss artwork, documentation, and testing [04:27] I'd first like to focus on how we can improve testing to ensure that we get pre-releases out on time. [04:28] I get the impression that people do test but maybe don't report it? [04:28] Hey, I am here === baslin6 [n=sporter@adsl-66-139-164-25.dsl.ltrkar.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:30] Iam working on some icons [04:30] Hi Jmak [04:30] We're just discussing testing [04:30] I am testing feisty so far everything works great [04:31] I think to resolve the issue with testing, we simply need to promote it more and make sure we're promoting the correct way of reporting so that the pre-releases get released automatically === cbx33 can proabably throw in a quick test of xubuntu feisty later in the week if that'll help [04:31] cbx33, It would be a big help :) [04:31] somerville32: for myself...reports failures is fine...reporting passes is tedious..hence coverage is not recorded [04:31] ok [04:31] somerville32: I test Xubuntu packages regularly for work purposes [04:31] I'll set it downloading now [04:31] somerville32: but I don't report back on Xubuntu stuff [04:31] somerville32: so I'll make a point of giving more feedback [04:31] install or desktop? [04:31] preference? === j1mc [n=j1m@adsl-75-21-84-63.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:32] highvoltage, Maybe there are ways to facilitate communication with Edubuntu and Xubuntu with regarding to testing to prevent duplications of efforts. [04:33] somerville32: I think a webform for test coverage would be good [04:33] somerville32: absolutely [04:36] How do people find using launchpad? [04:36] Isn't that what we're suppose to be using these days? [04:36] most complaints are about the UI and the licensing [04:36] the UI is getting an overhaul, though [04:36] some people have posted screenshots of the new lp interface [04:37] Linkie? :) === highvoltage looks for it [04:38] LP it's mostly good. However more assistance in what package to report against would be a big improvement [04:38] *is === alyn3d [n=alyn3d@unaffiliated/alyn3d] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:39] egh, I can't find it, I read it on planet ubuntu about a week ago [04:41] Isn't there one specific package you're suppose to report ISO testing to? [04:42] s/package/product [04:42] here's the post: http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=321 [04:42] can't remember where I saw the screenshots though [04:43] somerville32: yes, but when a bug is found bug report is also needed [04:43] I may say that I do like launchpad. Two drawbacks: license and random errors, but I think they've been working on the errors. [04:44] btw, I have herd2 installed and it works good except that I was not able to run vmware [04:44] hyper_ch: it's best to test with the latest alpha, it might be fixed in herd4 now [04:45] hyper_ch: it might also be possible that you just need to install the kernal headers package, since vmware would not ship pre-compiled modules for feisty yet [04:45] Xubuntu has been unable to release herd 3 and herd 4 [04:45] highvoltage: well, I haven't tested it so far again because I used the same /home as in edgy and the quicklauncher was replaced... feisty doesn't like the one from edgy and vice-versa [04:45] I'd like to be able to get the release candidate out [04:45] oh wow, ok [04:45] rync is excellent for keeping up to date! [04:45] *rsync [04:46] grazie: The issue is that the distro team won't release it until we can prove we've tested the ISOs [04:46] somerville32: take a look at the new terminal icon, i just emailed to the list === somerville32 nods at Jmak. [04:46] I dunno if it is because of lack of man power or lack of reports [04:46] somerville32: what proof do they need? [04:47] Just people saying it worked [04:47] Same as the other distros [04:48] somerville32: that can be arranged :) [04:48] Awesome. [04:48] Does Edubuntu have a testing team? === issocabin [i=issocabi@219.148.226.143] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:49] somerville32: it does. it's fairly loose, there's a team in LP too [04:49] somerville32: and a bunch of wiki pages for co-ordination [04:49] highvoltage, Do you find it effective? [04:49] somerville32: it could be better, but so far it has worked well [04:50] somerville32: we'll need something better as edubuntu becomes more complicated [04:50] somerville32: the benefig that edubuntu has is, it uses the exact same desktop environment as ubuntu, so it gets a lot of free testing there === somerville32 nods. [04:50] somerville32: i think xubuntu's testing is even a bit more work than with edubuntu [04:50] The biggest thing is making sure the ISOs are tested for us [04:50] somerville32: I suppose what I really meant is that saying that the iso's worked can easily be faked :( [04:51] ah I see [04:51] somerville32, i had a great install experience with the nightlies leading up to herd4. [04:51] j1mc: Did you report that? [04:51] no :( [04:51] hehe [04:51] See, we need that [04:52] We need to get an official testing team together maybe [04:52] i'm mostly on xubuntu-user mailing list. [04:52] j1mc: Would you like to head up an Xubuntu testing team? [04:52] what would it entail? are there other examples of testing teams? [04:53] IT seems like you already do quite a bit of testing [04:53] So you'd just need to recruit a few more people to help you out and schedule regular testing [04:53] Especially just before a pre-release [04:54] So that we can release an image as the pre-release [04:54] sure. i think i can do that. [04:54] What platforms can you test on? [04:54] just i386 right now. [04:55] Ok [04:55] i could get another machine pretty easily. i volunteer for free geek chicago === somerville32 nods. [04:55] we use xubuntu there, so they'd be willing to donate a machine. === somerville32 nods. [04:56] So you'd just need to find a few dedicated individuals who could help test the other official platforms too [04:56] Awesome! :) [04:56] and then get them to report their results. :) [04:56] hehe === somerville32 hands j1mc the "Xubuntu ISO QA Manager" hat. === j1mc accepts hat [04:57] I directed the testing for Herd 2 so we'll have to get together to chat ASAP. [04:57] I'll pass off everything I have to you [04:57] i think you set up a wiki about testing, so i'll want to look at that. === somerville32 nods. [04:58] You'll also want to review all the ISO qa stuff you can find on the wiki for the other derivatives too to see how we can improve our processes. [04:58] i emailed you about xubuntu-docs, so you have my email address [04:58] Ok, aweosme [04:58] *awesome :) [04:58] ok [05:00] i work at a healthcare software company (just in the HR dept, though), but I know some QA people. i can talk w/ them about what they do for QA, too. [05:00] Awesome :) [05:00] If things go well, your position might evolve into a more general Xubuntu QA guy if you'd like [05:00] Up to you :) [05:01] But for now, we need to focus on the ISO testing for upcoming Feisty Release (yea!!) :D [05:01] Sounds great, somerville32 (the initial testing for Feisty, that is) :) [05:01] i'll be in touch with you [05:02] Perfect. [05:02] I feel much better about that now that there is someone leading that up [05:02] Thanks a bunch j1mc [05:02] Next on the agenda is Artwork, Jmak :) [05:04] j1mc++ [05:05] btw, I had one big problem with feisty... I have IDE and SDA drives and after the isntall everything was mixed up.... grub wasn't able to select/assign them correctly [05:05] haha j1mc++ :) [05:05] j1mc: A good person to chat with is sfflaw as he heads up ubuntu-qa (which extends to Xubuntu) [05:05] but that's not xubuntu specific [05:06] thanks . . . i'll note that. [05:06] Awesome. [05:06] Jmak, ping [05:07] Jmak, I think the new terminal icon looks great. [05:08] Jmak, Did any of the new artwork get uploaded yet? [05:08] Seems like Jmak is away . . . is there another agenda item that we can go to, and then come back to artwork? [05:09] Documentation [05:09] Yessss :) [05:09] They are on the wike page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty/Incoming [05:10] oh, there's Jmak. back to artwork then. [05:10] But nothing has been uploaded to the repositories? [05:11] as far as know none [05:11] ok [05:11] I'll upload some of it [05:11] ok [05:11] Anything else you'd like to touch on jmak? [05:11] One thing I like about ubuntu's new GDM login is that the font has a bit more weight to it. perhaps it's just bolded, but it looks more professional. [05:12] We have to decide on the use of icons [05:12] Tango? [05:12] Dropline looks great [05:13] link? [05:14] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty/Desktop/Incoming === cbx33 now has the install iso [05:14] I'll give it a go [05:14] cbx33, Thanks [05:14] Dropline isn't bad [05:15] I like it too [05:15] Is it complete? [05:15] The most popular icon set on the gnome look org [05:15] Ok [05:15] Very complete [05:16] fwiw, i think the gion icon set looks great, too. [05:16] :) [05:16] Ok === vlad92 [n=root@89.40.153.139] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:16] Jmak: Do you have a "package" to present yet? [05:16] But that one not very complate [05:17] What package? [05:17] Like, you're going to have to present a package that includes all the changes you'd like to make so that we can see what it looks like [05:17] And then if it gets approved, it gets implemented === vlad92 [n=root@89.40.153.139] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] [05:18] The artworks on the wiki are now, pretty complate === azeem [n=mbanck@host109.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === alyn3d is away: Traduc o chestie... === alyn3d [n=alyn3d@unaffiliated/alyn3d] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["*] [05:20] It is hard to navigate and see what is decided [05:20] I dunno what should be changed to accomplish what you want [05:20] I just a few screenshots here and there [05:21] I already sent some time ago the xubuntu.xml to the list, I hope someone saved that too === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:21] From the wiki I will deleat all artworks except the final ones. Is that ok? [05:22] No [05:22] Please don't [05:22] Create a new wiki page that clearly outlines the gtk theme engine, theme, icons, etc. [05:22] Give each package a name [05:23] ok [05:23] And then organize it under that name [05:23] that sounds like a good approach [05:23] So, if there are a few "packages" that you'd like to propose [05:23] You might nickname them A, B, and C [05:24] all right [05:24] And then you'd create a wiki page for each package and have everything related to it on that page (or linked under that page) [05:24] Make sure to have a clear hierarchy when actually naming the pages [05:24] ie. [05:24] Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/A [05:24] Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/B [05:24] Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/C [05:25] ok [05:25] That way when we visit Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/A it shows us exactly how Xubuntu would look if we went with Option A [05:27] :) [05:27] sounds good [05:27] Unfortunately there is a deadline [05:28] Can you get this all done by the 22nd? [05:28] Thats 5 days [05:28] Sure I can do the weekend [05:28] Ok, perfect. [05:28] After 22nd, we will start voting [05:28] ok [05:29] March 15th is the FINAL deadline [05:30] We'll be decided on the artwork at the next meeting [05:30] *deciding [05:30] ok [05:30] So please be ready :) [05:31] sounds good === somerville32 nods. [05:31] Ok, lets talk about Documentation [05:31] Now I go and start plannning it [05:31] see you next time [05:31] thanks, Jmak === Jmak [n=mak@h66-201-246-248.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [05:32] j1mc: Re testing: Herd 5 will be released March 1st [05:33] I'd really like to see Herd 5 be released via the efforts of your new team :) [05:33] ok. i'll do my best. [05:33] Ok, onto Documentation [05:34] We're doing better then Edgy [05:34] We've seen some small updates [05:34] But nothing substantial has been completed [05:35] i saw your spec up. how does that stand? [05:35] i can't remember the name of it off hand. [05:35] That'll have to be deferred to Feisty+1 [05:35] Where we'll really have to pull up our socks [05:35] For the rest of this release, we should focus on improving current documentation [05:36] ie. removing/updating outdated info [05:36] And adding in new stuff that is applicable [05:36] i've been filing just a few bug reports, but would like to file some more. [05:36] We simple do not have time to do the big overhaul that the other derivatives have done with their documentation. === somerville32 nods. [05:36] btw, how do you select the appz that get added to the standard install? [05:37] seeds [05:38] j1mc: Are you interested in helping with documentation? [05:38] i am, but i don't know docbook xml. i have the current ubuntu-docs files installed locally via subversion, though. [05:38] It is pretty easy [05:39] It isn't anything special [05:39] I think we should organize a documentation sprint [05:39] yeah . . . i think that if i'm going to be doing the QA stuff, that i shouldn't try to take on too much writing of documentation. [05:39] Unfortunately, with me being in the hospital currently, I dunno when we could [05:39] j1mc: *nods* [05:39] my regular job is going to be pretty crazy between now and the end of the month. [05:40] :D === somerville32 nods. [05:40] i plan to do a major bug reporting day, though. checking links, looking for items that are outdated, etc. [05:40] Alrighty, so we'll try to set a date for a sprint [05:40] Where we all get together on IRC and work on the documentation [05:40] We can discuss the date on the xubuntu-devel and -users mailing list [05:41] would it be good to have the bugs filed prior to our sprint? [05:41] We'll certainly review the bugs at the sprint [05:41] So it would be a good way to create a todo list if you'd like [05:42] Infact, that would be a wonderful idea [05:42] It would make it easy for new people to find things to do [05:42] yes... it would help to focus our efforts === somerville32 nods. [05:42] Alrighty [05:42] This has been a VERY productive meeting :) === somerville32 is happy. [05:43] ok . . . i have tomorrow and monday off from work, so look for a bunch of bug reports from me over the next few days. [05:43] highvoltage, What do you call your guy's qa team? [05:43] :D [05:43] j1mc++ [05:43] haha [05:45] is that it for documentation? [05:46] I guess so :) [05:46] ok, well, we'll get the bugs filed, and then . . . do you want to set a tentative date for the doc-sprint? [05:47] Well, I dunno when I'll be discharged from the hospital and I'd really like to be at the sprint [05:47] Not to say that you can't hold it without me [05:47] no, i think it would be best if you were there. [05:48] Alright [05:48] We can discuss it on the mailing list and I'll try my best to get there. [05:48] ok. good luck getting better! [05:48] Thanks :) [05:48] If there isn't anything else... === somerville32 declares the meeting over. [05:49] thanks, somerville32 [05:55] btw [05:55] Documentation freeze is March 8th [05:55] Thats 19 days away [05:58] ok. i'll be out of town on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th [05:58] before that = work craziness + QA craziness. i'll file a bunch of bugs this weekend. [05:59] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing [06:00] somerville32: do you use vmware? [06:00] nope [06:00] somerville32, thanks for the link [06:00] j1mc: I just created it. [06:00] You'll want to fill in the blanks [06:00] yep [06:00] still, thanks. [06:02] j1mc: What is your launchpad id? [06:02] jwcampbell === j1mc thinks it is . . . goes to double-check [06:03] yes, that's correct [06:04] Ok [06:04] You're now an administrator of the xubuntu-testers team [06:04] thanks . . . [06:04] that was quick === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Feb 21:30 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor [06:05] if someone could check vmware... that would be great :) [06:06] j1mc: Please make sure that you stick to the wiki hierarchy [06:07] So, there are a few pages under Testing that you'll want to move around [06:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Dapper <-- Dapper Testing Results === hjmf [n=hjmf@37.Red-81-33-109.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:07] ok [06:07] You might move that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Archive/Dapper [06:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Current <-- Herd 2 === Rinchen [n=Rinchen@ubuntu/member/rinchen] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short <-- Short test [06:08] if i have questions, i'll be in touch. === Rinchen [n=Rinchen@ubuntu/member/rinchen] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:09] Have fun! :) [06:09] You're going to want to have clear hierarchies === somerville32 giggles excitedly. [06:10] Awesome. [06:10] hehehe . . . === j1mc giggles nervously. === j1mc thinks he can handle it, though. [06:12] I'm sure you can === mc44_ [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:19] somerville32: it's called edubuntu-testers === somerville32 nods. 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