| ompaul | unop, your missing the point | 12:03 |
|---|---|---|
| unop | ompaul, you're not giving me much to work on in understanding why | 12:04 |
| phaidros | ompaul, yes would be great if you'd have an example !! | 12:04 |
| unop | yes, examples puleeeese | 12:04 |
| ompaul | go help in #ubuntu in a ubuntu centric way as it was phrased and I will find some | 12:04 |
| ompaul | then I will ping you both here | 12:05 |
| phaidros | ok. we can meet here then again :) thanks for diggin into, ompaul! | 12:05 |
| unop | ompaul, so you dont have anything concrete then .. and you're waiting for something to crop up? | 12:05 |
| nalioth | unop: he has the same info as me, we don't keep this stuff on file, we just know that it's happened repeatedly | 12:06 |
| unop | nalioth, ok, so these are bugs then? what has this got to do with unix in it's normal operations??? | 12:07 |
| ompaul | unop, actually tell you what screw this for a game of soldiews | 12:07 |
| nalioth | unop: Ubuntu is not "unix in its normal operation", it's Ubuntu in its normal operation | 12:07 |
| nalioth | if you want unix, use slackware | 12:08 |
| phaidros | nalioth, thats cynical again ;) | 12:08 |
| ompaul | no use FreeBSD | 12:08 |
| unop | i do use freeBSD .. infact i sit on it right now | 12:09 |
| ompaul | my work has me using four different *nx versions | 12:09 |
| ompaul | but I will condence that into one | 12:09 |
| phaidros | so no examples for breaking things with root on *buntu ?? | 12:10 |
| unop | ompaul, 4 unices. and yet i find it hard you cant convince me that downsides to enabling root on ubuntu exist apart from "#ubuntu" policy and "works for me" | 12:10 |
| ompaul | http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20070131.082448.b477d880.en.html | 12:11 |
| ompaul | unop, - the fact is this I gave up trying to run ubuntu as debian or freebsd a long time ago | 12:11 |
| ompaul | that is one person on my search | 12:11 |
| ompaul | and having this on file as the op says is not what we do | 12:11 |
| ompaul | we keep working solutions | 12:12 |
| ompaul | http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=451478 | 12:13 |
| ompaul | still loooking for the lamp issue | 12:13 |
| unop | ompaul, both these examples are inconclusive and on random sites (is there nothing in ubuntu's database that is convincing?) .. in the first example, the guy edits the shadow file , well, hey guess what, you expect things like this to break if you do that (which is why visudo was written).. | 12:18 |
| phaidros | are these examples occuring regularly ? | 12:18 |
| ompaul | google and check it out people are making a mess of stuff | 12:18 |
| unop | the second guy doesnt seem to know what he is doing and could have done anything apart from issue "passwd root" properly .. i'm not buying these as bugs | 12:18 |
| ompaul | but my query is not right | 12:18 |
| unop | ompaul, you are an op right? | 12:18 |
| ompaul | so they tell me | 12:19 |
| === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o ompaul] by ChanServ | ||
| === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o ompaul] by ChanServ | ||
| ompaul | it appears to be so | 12:19 |
| === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o unop] by ChanServ | ||
| === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o unop] by ChanServ | ||
| nalioth | looks can be deceiving | 12:19 |
| ompaul | that is true | 12:20 |
| nalioth | then again, unop should know better than to show off | 12:20 |
| unop | so you've been in these channels for a few years atleast -- you must have definitely come across severe and conclusive implications of enabling the root account .. thats what i am after really | 12:20 |
| unop | nalioth, now i feel this is getting personal -- in no way am i showing off, i'm just getting to the bottom of this (with no apparent help from you) | 12:21 |
| phaidros | I have to second unop, this is more a rant here, than a helping out with facts betweeen experienced users / ops | 12:23 |
| ompaul | unop, and I have megs of logs how do you suggest I search them? | 12:23 |
| nalioth | actually that is a good idea | 12:24 |
| nalioth | !logs | 12:24 |
| ubotu | Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs - See also !OpenWeek | 12:24 |
| unop | ompaul, only if i can find something conclusive where user error has been ruled out and i can readily replicate the problem .. otherwise no | 12:24 |
| ompaul | phaidros, the other view is that the question is that four people are not helping that could be and that annoys me | 12:24 |
| nalioth | you guys can search #ubuntu logs there for the past years | 12:24 |
| phaidros | ompaul, I'm elping two users in private chats right now | 12:26 |
| phaidros | tsss | 12:26 |
| ompaul | well here is fun I am not | 12:26 |
| phaidros | nalioth, I am getting annoyed | 12:26 |
| phaidros | ompaul, nalioth sry, but you guys have been 0 (ZERO) help in a understandable question | 12:26 |
| phaidros | I'll go and help ppl now. | 12:26 |
| nalioth | phaidros: we are not devs, we are general help. we've both seen this problem, but unfortunately we don't catalogue every bobble on the radar | 12:27 |
| phaidros | if one of you might come up with a reasonable base for sorting facts on root problem with e.g. apache or mysql i'd be very glad to hear | 12:27 |
| nalioth | to know it exists is enough for us | 12:27 |
| unop | 30 searches later on launchpad and still nothing - http://www.google.com/search?num=100&complete=1&hl=en&q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net+sudo+%22passwd+root%22&btnG=Search | 12:27 |
| ompaul | why lp | 12:27 |
| ompaul | it is not a bug | 12:27 |
| nalioth | no, Ubuntu was made that way. | 12:28 |
| ompaul | http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/kubuntu-2006-05-11.html | 12:28 |
| phaidros | anyway, I'll go on with working, this is time waste. sry guys | 12:28 |
| ompaul | that is not an example | 12:28 |
| ompaul | that is one result I got | 12:28 |
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| ompaul | site http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 12:28 |
| unop | ompaul, ok what am i looking for here? | 12:29 |
| ompaul | you are not use that as search criteria | 12:29 |
| ompaul | or do this wait until we get someone who can find us an exact example | 12:29 |
| unop | why lp? because thats where the complaints first start appearing (or as so far i have noticed) | 12:30 |
| ompaul | ehh better to check lists | 12:30 |
| ompaul | lp is only where you get specs and the like | 12:30 |
| ompaul | lp is a plan to build and real bugs | 12:30 |
| ompaul | having a root password is not a bug - it is a user error | 12:30 |
| unop | ompaul, thats not what that google page says -- it's gone into the bugs.launchpad.net | 12:31 |
| unop | ompaul, thats what you say tho and i outrightly reject .. it is not an error, it's just a preference | 12:31 |
| nalioth | unop: it is the way Ubuntu is made. | 12:32 |
| ompaul | well neither of us calls it a bug and bugs go in lp | 12:32 |
| ompaul | so looking in lp is wrong | 12:32 |
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| unop | nalioth, yes, ubuntu comes that way but, are people not allowed to change preferences now? is that it? is that what you are saying? | 12:33 |
| nalioth | it is not a preference in the default Ubuntu | 12:34 |
| nalioth | if you want a root account, use the custom install and have one | 12:34 |
| unop | i don't even find other linux users complain or laugh about the fact ubuntu breaks when enabling root (because that is what they'd do almost automatically) | 12:35 |
| nalioth | most linux users give sudo a try and continue using it | 12:35 |
| nalioth | if they do not, they are knowledgable and advanced enough to fix their own problems | 12:36 |
| unop | nalioth, as I have done too -- without any custom install | 12:36 |
| nalioth | #ubuntu is for helping new users (users who have never used a computer or are just here from Windows(tm)) | 12:36 |
| unop | nalioth, and most windows users rest in the comfort of having their "Administrator" account enabled and ready to use when needed | 12:37 |
| unop | nalioth, which is why the first question they as is "how do i enable superuser" .. and believe it or not, we tell them to use !sudo | 12:37 |
| nalioth | unop: most windows user have no clue what an account is | 12:38 |
| unop | nalioth, thats not true -- a lot of power users know exactly what accounts are, file permissions , ACLs, process privileges, network security etc (they have to know or end up knowing about them, they use insecure systems) | 12:39 |
| ompaul | and one side of the sign is gold and the other silver | 12:41 |
| unop | anyway, this is drifting off-topic now .. the very reason you brougt me in here was to perhaps "educate" me about sudo on ubuntu -- but i'm unresolved and dont think i'll find an answer anytime soon -- do let me know when you guys find something concrete and replicable, i'm forever interested .. ciao :) | 12:43 |
| nalioth | unop: my point is: the problem exists. | 12:44 |
| nalioth | unfortunately i do not have every problem i've seen catalogued | 12:44 |
| unop | nalioth, or so you claim and arent definite, thats my challenge | 12:44 |
| nalioth | unop: we've both seen it repeatedly in #ubuntu | 12:45 |
| ompaul | unop, I'll turn one up maybe not tonight but I will | 12:45 |
| nalioth | myself and ompaul | 12:45 |
| unop | nalioth, but surely you'd know or vaguely remember what one of the problems is | 12:45 |
| unop | nalioth, again, so you say and cannot readily show me | 12:45 |
| ompaul | unop, I can't tell you what is wrong with automatix - orhter than it brokes stuff | 12:45 |
| nalioth | i remember that all the users had enabled the root password | 12:46 |
| ompaul | I can tell you that it used to be the worst written software I ever read | 12:46 |
| ompaul | unop, when you have dealt with the outcome of other peoples lack of doing the standard thing (if you hang around that long) | 12:47 |
| unop | ompaul, we arent discussing automatix here tho -- whether or not it works, doesnt work, breaks systems doesnt have anything to do with root | 12:47 |
| ompaul | it is similar | 12:47 |
| unop | i dont think so .. not one bit similar infact | 12:47 |
| nalioth | unop: automatix does things in a unix way, not an Ubuntu way. and Ubuntu invarabily breaks. | 12:47 |
| unop | i'm not interested in automatix | 12:48 |
| ompaul | unop, as a paradigm it is comparible | 12:48 |
| unop | again, i beg to differ and request you put it aside .. i have no contest with regards to automatix | 12:49 |
| nalioth | unop: doing things the "unix way" or "the debian way" break Ubuntu | 12:49 |
| unop | nalioth, as i have seen , indeed .. and it's one of the downsides to ubuntu (i personally believe) .. but again, it has little to do with root on ubuntu | 12:51 |
| nalioth | Ubuntu was not designed with an active root account in mind (by default) when you twist the design of something, do not expect it to work well | 12:52 |
| === nalioth has said enough | ||
| ompaul | to change the subject do you like big hondas | 12:53 |
| === ompaul falls off his chair with tiredness | ||
| ompaul | I have wasted 2 hours in this channel | 12:53 |
| ompaul | make that one | 12:54 |
| unop | my argument from the start has been that _it does work well_ with no downsides, you say there are, i say where, you say somewhere but i have seen .. :( | 12:54 |
| ompaul | well why don't you quit arguing and put in the irc logs and read the 1300 or so entries with !root in them | 12:54 |
| ompaul | and see the pain | 12:54 |
| ompaul | each one being a day | 12:54 |
| ompaul | and you never said if you liked big hondas | 12:56 |
| unop | ompaul, bahh, thats not the issue .. if you contend with me that NEW users fumble, please don't, i know what NEW users are like and _never ever ever_ suggest enabling root .. the _only reason_ i am here is to know the technical details of this preference, _that is all_ | 12:56 |
| nalioth | it's in the logs | 12:57 |
| nalioth | many times | 12:57 |
| ompaul | read them | 12:57 |
| ompaul | have a nice night I am going to bed | 12:57 |
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| ompaul | it is seconds away from midnight | 12:57 |
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| Apollyon_ | I have issues with firefox/mozilla and verysign. I am trying to make a payment, but verysign does not accept it. And if I do it with IE it accepts. So ... ??? | 12:38 |
| nothlit | You should ask in #ubuntu, but anyways you need elaborate more on whats the issue | 12:40 |
| Apollyon_ | I asked this question in #mozilla, #firefox, #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic But no answer | 12:40 |
| nothlit | Anyways, you can always run ie under wine | 12:40 |
| nothlit | i wouldn't see why it wouldn't work under FF unless it requires active x | 12:41 |
| Apollyon_ | nothlit: The issue is: I fill a form, give all the infos and credit card number and then click in submit then verysing declines the deal. It happens with mozilla and firefox. But if I do it in IE it accepts! | 12:43 |
| nothlit | i'm sure nobody knows what you mean by verisign declining | 12:44 |
| Apollyon_ | I don't have window$ in my machine though. I used to, but now no dual-boot at all | 12:44 |
| Apollyon_ | nothlit: Verysign declining is verysign don't accept the payment deal. | 12:45 |
| nothlit | http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page | 12:46 |
| nothlit | use that, otherwise be more explicit | 12:46 |
| Apollyon_ | nothlit: What do you want to know more? I have been very explicit :-) | 12:52 |
| nothlit | just use ies4linux then... | 12:53 |
| Apollyon_ | So, how to install that active x in firefox. Is it possible? | 12:54 |
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| nothlit | yes it sort of is i think | 01:49 |
| nothlit | theres an emulation sort of thing, and also one that uses ie's | 01:49 |
| Apollyon_ | nothlit: Could you point me there? | 02:21 |
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| soundray | Hi novice | 03:13 |
| novice | hi | 03:13 |
| novice | can u plz guide me?? | 03:13 |
| soundray | First of all, have you got any firefox plugins or extensions that you want to keep? | 03:13 |
| novice | forget abt dat....... i will do dat again......no pro... | 03:14 |
| soundray | novice: okay. Have you got a terminal open? | 03:14 |
| novice | yup | 03:14 |
| soundray | 'ls /var/cache/apt/archives/mozilla-firefox_*' -- how many files? | 03:14 |
| novice | "no such file or directory" | 03:15 |
| soundray | How about 'ls /var/cache/apt/archives/*firefox*' | 03:15 |
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| novice | next?? | 03:16 |
| soundray | Any lines from that? | 03:16 |
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| novice | it is just some arrow mark..... | 03:16 |
| novice | *showing | 03:16 |
| soundray | novice: Hit Ctrl-C, and don't enter the quotes :) | 03:16 |
| novice | sorry...... | 03:17 |
| soundray | novice: that's fine. It's sometimes easier for me to show you where the command begins and ends with quotes. | 03:17 |
| soundray | novice: have you tried again without the quote? | 03:18 |
| novice | ya..... i'm getting some lines | 03:18 |
| novice | 4 to 5 lines | 03:18 |
| soundray | novice: give me one that looks like it's a recent 1.5 package of firefox | 03:18 |
| novice | /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.9-0ubuntu0.5.10.1_i386.deb | 03:19 |
| novice | /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox-gnome-support_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.9-0ubuntu0.5.10.1_i386.deb | 03:19 |
| soundray | novice: okay | 03:19 |
| soundray | novice: remove the folder with the failed upgrade attempt: 'sudo rm -rf /usr/lib/firefox' | 03:20 |
| novice | done...... | 03:20 |
| soundray | Now, do a 'sudo dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.9-0ubuntu0.5.10.1_i386.deb' | 03:20 |
| soundray | novice: it'll probably complain about some error... | 03:21 |
| novice | no..... it didn't show any error | 03:21 |
| novice | it showed dat setting up firefox..... | 03:22 |
| novice | now asking for next command...... | 03:22 |
| soundray | novice: it should have recreated the folder. Check with 'ls /var/lib/firefox' | 03:22 |
| novice | no such file or directory | 03:22 |
| soundray | Sorry, my bad | 03:23 |
| soundray | novice: it should have recreated the folder. Check with 'ls /usr/lib/firefox' | 03:23 |
| novice | yup........ done.... | 03:23 |
| novice | now can i start my firefox... | 03:24 |
| soundray | novice: to get 2.0, check out this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion | 03:24 |
| soundray | Note it's better to keep 1.5 around | 03:25 |
| novice | Y dude?? | 03:25 |
| soundray | novice: that page will tell you | 03:26 |
| soundray | novice: you can use 2.0 for browsing, of course | 03:26 |
| novice | k.... i have some more doubts...... can i ask U?? | 03:26 |
| soundray | Of course | 03:26 |
| novice | in order copy the folders present on the desktop i used nautilus command ...... instead can't i use any command line | 03:27 |
| novice | i tried with sudo cp -r....... | 03:27 |
| novice | but it didn't work | 03:28 |
| soundray | novice: I don't quite follow. You've got a folder on the desktop that you want to move elsewhere? | 03:28 |
| novice | i want to copy into root directory | 03:29 |
| novice | for example i downloaded firefox 2.0 folder on to my desktop then i copied dat folder into root directory | 03:30 |
| novice | can' t i use any command line | 03:30 |
| soundray | novice: there are two directories that are called root directories. One is /root (which is the root user's home), the other is '/', which holds everything else (like /home, /etc, /usr etc.) | 03:31 |
| soundray | novice: you shouldn't copy your stuff to either of those. | 03:31 |
| soundray | The best place to put your stuff would be your home directory. Type 'echo $HOME' to see what it's called. | 03:32 |
| novice | if i want to use then wat command should i use | 03:32 |
| novice | echo $HOME | 03:32 |
| soundray | 'mv Desktop/foldername $HOME' | 03:32 |
| novice | no dude ........ wat i mean is ........ i downloaded some apple icons...... now i want them to put in /usr/share/pixmaps..... frm desktop... | 03:34 |
| novice | wat command shld i use to do dis function?? | 03:34 |
| novice | i tried with sudo cp -r ...... but didn't work | 03:34 |
| novice | so i used nautilus..... | 03:35 |
| soundray | novice: if you do 'sudo cp file.xpm /usr/share/pixmaps/', that should work | 03:36 |
| novice | no dude it didn't work..... it showed missing destination files | 03:36 |
| soundray | Oh, you probably haven't changed to the directory where your stuff is located | 03:36 |
| novice | i did dat also.... | 03:37 |
| soundray | novice: does 'ls /usr/share/pixmaps/' return lots of filenames? | 03:37 |
| novice | k........ wait.... i think there shld be gap b\w file name and destination...... rite?? | 03:38 |
| novice | is dat a pro?? | 03:38 |
| soundray | Yes, that would be essential ;) | 03:38 |
| novice | ya....... dat was the mistake.... | 03:39 |
| novice | k.... thank u very much...... | 03:39 |
| novice | can u temme briefly wat u did to restore my firefox?? i just wanna know... if u have time...?? | 03:40 |
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| soundray | No problem -- just give me a minute | 03:42 |
| soundray | Okay, back. Still here? | 03:44 |
| novice | can u temme briefly wat u did to restore my firefox | 03:45 |
| soundray | We looked in your package cache, /var/cache/apt/archive, for a recent firefox package | 03:45 |
| soundray | Then we installed that, bypassing the apt mechanism. | 03:45 |
| soundray | This restored your botched /usr/lib/firefox | 03:46 |
| soundray | dpkg is the program that apt or synaptic also calls in order to do actual installations. | 03:46 |
| soundray | dpkg is sometimes more powerful when you're problem-solving. | 03:47 |
| soundray | Think of synaptic as the Swiss army knife, and of dpkg as the scalpel ;) | 03:47 |
| novice | ya.... i have observed that ....... many times ppl use dpkg to solve the pro | 03:47 |
| novice | k..... thank u very much dude..... will u be in this server at this time daily?? | 03:49 |
| soundray | It varies | 03:49 |
| soundray | I'm usually later in the day | 03:49 |
| soundray | But there are usually helpful people around. If you ask and don't get a good answer straight away, it's a good idea to ask again after an hour or so | 03:50 |
| novice | its k..... i will try to catch u daily ;) | 03:50 |
| soundray | because new people keep logging on | 03:50 |
| novice | ya ....... i have found many guys who help when i'm in trouble.. | 03:51 |
| soundray | BTW, have you considered upgrading to Dapper? | 03:51 |
| novice | ya.... i will try it today night... | 03:52 |
| soundray | Good luck | 03:52 |
| novice | thanx.... | 03:52 |
| Gunirus | novice: Good luck | 03:53 |
| novice | gunirus: thanx.... | 03:53 |
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| === unop [n=sysops@82-47-200-4.stb.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom | ||
| === unop [n=sysops@82-47-200-4.stb.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"] | ||
| === hybrid [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom | ||
| === nothlit [n=nothlit@n219077170221.netvigator.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom | ||
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