[12:03] unop, your missing the point [12:04] ompaul, you're not giving me much to work on in understanding why [12:04] ompaul, yes would be great if you'd have an example !! [12:04] yes, examples puleeeese [12:04] go help in #ubuntu in a ubuntu centric way as it was phrased and I will find some [12:05] then I will ping you both here [12:05] ok. we can meet here then again :) thanks for diggin into, ompaul! [12:05] ompaul, so you dont have anything concrete then .. and you're waiting for something to crop up? [12:06] unop: he has the same info as me, we don't keep this stuff on file, we just know that it's happened repeatedly [12:07] nalioth, ok, so these are bugs then? what has this got to do with unix in it's normal operations??? [12:07] unop, actually tell you what screw this for a game of soldiews [12:07] unop: Ubuntu is not "unix in its normal operation", it's Ubuntu in its normal operation [12:08] if you want unix, use slackware [12:08] nalioth, thats cynical again ;) [12:08] no use FreeBSD [12:09] i do use freeBSD .. infact i sit on it right now [12:09] my work has me using four different *nx versions [12:09] but I will condence that into one [12:10] so no examples for breaking things with root on *buntu ?? [12:10] ompaul, 4 unices. and yet i find it hard you cant convince me that downsides to enabling root on ubuntu exist apart from "#ubuntu" policy and "works for me" [12:11] http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20070131.082448.b477d880.en.html [12:11] unop, - the fact is this I gave up trying to run ubuntu as debian or freebsd a long time ago [12:11] that is one person on my search [12:11] and having this on file as the op says is not what we do [12:12] we keep working solutions [12:13] http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=451478 [12:13] still loooking for the lamp issue [12:18] ompaul, both these examples are inconclusive and on random sites (is there nothing in ubuntu's database that is convincing?) .. in the first example, the guy edits the shadow file , well, hey guess what, you expect things like this to break if you do that (which is why visudo was written).. [12:18] are these examples occuring regularly ? [12:18] google and check it out people are making a mess of stuff [12:18] the second guy doesnt seem to know what he is doing and could have done anything apart from issue "passwd root" properly .. i'm not buying these as bugs [12:18] but my query is not right [12:18] ompaul, you are an op right? [12:19] so they tell me === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o ompaul] by ChanServ === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o ompaul] by ChanServ [12:19] it appears to be so === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o unop] by ChanServ === mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o unop] by ChanServ [12:19] looks can be deceiving [12:20] that is true [12:20] then again, unop should know better than to show off [12:20] so you've been in these channels for a few years atleast -- you must have definitely come across severe and conclusive implications of enabling the root account .. thats what i am after really [12:21] nalioth, now i feel this is getting personal -- in no way am i showing off, i'm just getting to the bottom of this (with no apparent help from you) [12:23] I have to second unop, this is more a rant here, than a helping out with facts betweeen experienced users / ops [12:23] unop, and I have megs of logs how do you suggest I search them? [12:24] actually that is a good idea [12:24] !logs [12:24] Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs - See also !OpenWeek [12:24] ompaul, only if i can find something conclusive where user error has been ruled out and i can readily replicate the problem .. otherwise no [12:24] phaidros, the other view is that the question is that four people are not helping that could be and that annoys me [12:24] you guys can search #ubuntu logs there for the past years [12:26] ompaul, I'm elping two users in private chats right now [12:26] tsss [12:26] well here is fun I am not [12:26] nalioth, I am getting annoyed [12:26] ompaul, nalioth sry, but you guys have been 0 (ZERO) help in a understandable question [12:26] I'll go and help ppl now. [12:27] phaidros: we are not devs, we are general help. we've both seen this problem, but unfortunately we don't catalogue every bobble on the radar [12:27] if one of you might come up with a reasonable base for sorting facts on root problem with e.g. apache or mysql i'd be very glad to hear [12:27] to know it exists is enough for us [12:27] 30 searches later on launchpad and still nothing - http://www.google.com/search?num=100&complete=1&hl=en&q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net+sudo+%22passwd+root%22&btnG=Search [12:27] why lp [12:27] it is not a bug [12:28] no, Ubuntu was made that way. [12:28] http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/kubuntu-2006-05-11.html [12:28] anyway, I'll go on with working, this is time waste. sry guys [12:28] that is not an example [12:28] that is one result I got === phaidros [n=phaidros@pD9512469.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"] [12:28] site http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ [12:29] ompaul, ok what am i looking for here? [12:29] you are not use that as search criteria [12:29] or do this wait until we get someone who can find us an exact example [12:30] why lp? because thats where the complaints first start appearing (or as so far i have noticed) [12:30] ehh better to check lists [12:30] lp is only where you get specs and the like [12:30] lp is a plan to build and real bugs [12:30] having a root password is not a bug - it is a user error [12:31] ompaul, thats not what that google page says -- it's gone into the bugs.launchpad.net [12:31] ompaul, thats what you say tho and i outrightly reject .. it is not an error, it's just a preference [12:32] unop: it is the way Ubuntu is made. [12:32] well neither of us calls it a bug and bugs go in lp [12:32] so looking in lp is wrong === Quintin [n=quintin@74-133-74-18.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [12:33] nalioth, yes, ubuntu comes that way but, are people not allowed to change preferences now? is that it? is that what you are saying? [12:34] it is not a preference in the default Ubuntu [12:34] if you want a root account, use the custom install and have one [12:35] i don't even find other linux users complain or laugh about the fact ubuntu breaks when enabling root (because that is what they'd do almost automatically) [12:35] most linux users give sudo a try and continue using it [12:36] if they do not, they are knowledgable and advanced enough to fix their own problems [12:36] nalioth, as I have done too -- without any custom install [12:36] #ubuntu is for helping new users (users who have never used a computer or are just here from Windows(tm)) [12:37] nalioth, and most windows users rest in the comfort of having their "Administrator" account enabled and ready to use when needed [12:37] nalioth, which is why the first question they as is "how do i enable superuser" .. and believe it or not, we tell them to use !sudo [12:38] unop: most windows user have no clue what an account is [12:39] nalioth, thats not true -- a lot of power users know exactly what accounts are, file permissions , ACLs, process privileges, network security etc (they have to know or end up knowing about them, they use insecure systems) [12:41] and one side of the sign is gold and the other silver [12:43] anyway, this is drifting off-topic now .. the very reason you brougt me in here was to perhaps "educate" me about sudo on ubuntu -- but i'm unresolved and dont think i'll find an answer anytime soon -- do let me know when you guys find something concrete and replicable, i'm forever interested .. ciao :) [12:44] unop: my point is: the problem exists. [12:44] unfortunately i do not have every problem i've seen catalogued [12:44] nalioth, or so you claim and arent definite, thats my challenge [12:45] unop: we've both seen it repeatedly in #ubuntu [12:45] unop, I'll turn one up maybe not tonight but I will [12:45] myself and ompaul [12:45] nalioth, but surely you'd know or vaguely remember what one of the problems is [12:45] nalioth, again, so you say and cannot readily show me [12:45] unop, I can't tell you what is wrong with automatix - orhter than it brokes stuff [12:46] i remember that all the users had enabled the root password [12:46] I can tell you that it used to be the worst written software I ever read [12:47] unop, when you have dealt with the outcome of other peoples lack of doing the standard thing (if you hang around that long) [12:47] ompaul, we arent discussing automatix here tho -- whether or not it works, doesnt work, breaks systems doesnt have anything to do with root [12:47] it is similar [12:47] i dont think so .. not one bit similar infact [12:47] unop: automatix does things in a unix way, not an Ubuntu way. and Ubuntu invarabily breaks. [12:48] i'm not interested in automatix [12:48] unop, as a paradigm it is comparible [12:49] again, i beg to differ and request you put it aside .. i have no contest with regards to automatix [12:49] unop: doing things the "unix way" or "the debian way" break Ubuntu [12:51] nalioth, as i have seen , indeed .. and it's one of the downsides to ubuntu (i personally believe) .. but again, it has little to do with root on ubuntu [12:52] Ubuntu was not designed with an active root account in mind (by default) when you twist the design of something, do not expect it to work well === nalioth has said enough [12:53] to change the subject do you like big hondas === ompaul falls off his chair with tiredness [12:53] I have wasted 2 hours in this channel [12:54] make that one [12:54] my argument from the start has been that _it does work well_ with no downsides, you say there are, i say where, you say somewhere but i have seen .. :( [12:54] well why don't you quit arguing and put in the irc logs and read the 1300 or so entries with !root in them [12:54] and see the pain [12:54] each one being a day [12:56] and you never said if you liked big hondas [12:56] ompaul, bahh, thats not the issue .. if you contend with me that NEW users fumble, please don't, i know what NEW users are like and _never ever ever_ suggest enabling root .. the _only reason_ i am here is to know the technical details of this preference, _that is all_ [12:57] it's in the logs [12:57] many times [12:57] read them [12:57] have a nice night I am going to bed === unop [n=sysops@82-47-200-4.stb.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"] [12:57] it is seconds away from midnight === hybrid [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === rhkfin [n=rhk@a88-114-123-46.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Konversation] === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === nothlit [n=nothlit@n219077170221.netvigator.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === emonkey-p [n=emonkey@static-pro-212-101-27-121.adsl.solnet.ch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === hexidigital [n=root@unaffiliated/hexidigital] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === pipedrea1 [n=pipedrea@kingklip.aims.ac.za] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === hybrid [n=x@easyubuntu/supporter/hybrid] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === hybrid [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === silwol [n=silwol@193.170.68.74] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === hybrid [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === DerXero [n=patrick@dslb-082-083-151-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === GaiaX11 [n=vagner@201.57.125.2] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === croppa [n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === GaiaX11 [n=vagner@201.57.125.2] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === darich [n=trickyki@host86-140-174-38.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === GaiaX11 [n=vagner@201.57.125.2] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === GaiaX11 [n=vagner@201.57.125.2] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === silwol [n=silwol@193.170.68.74] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === neuratix [n=lorents@ti521110a080-0483.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === DerXero [n=patrick@dslb-082-083-137-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [12:38] I have issues with firefox/mozilla and verysign. I am trying to make a payment, but verysign does not accept it. And if I do it with IE it accepts. So ... ??? [12:40] You should ask in #ubuntu, but anyways you need elaborate more on whats the issue [12:40] I asked this question in #mozilla, #firefox, #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic But no answer [12:40] Anyways, you can always run ie under wine [12:41] i wouldn't see why it wouldn't work under FF unless it requires active x [12:43] nothlit: The issue is: I fill a form, give all the infos and credit card number and then click in submit then verysing declines the deal. It happens with mozilla and firefox. But if I do it in IE it accepts! [12:44] i'm sure nobody knows what you mean by verisign declining [12:44] I don't have window$ in my machine though. I used to, but now no dual-boot at all [12:45] nothlit: Verysign declining is verysign don't accept the payment deal. [12:46] http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page [12:46] use that, otherwise be more explicit [12:52] nothlit: What do you want to know more? I have been very explicit :-) [12:53] just use ies4linux then... [12:54] So, how to install that active x in firefox. Is it possible? === neuratix [n=lorents@ti521110a080-0483.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [01:49] yes it sort of is i think [01:49] theres an emulation sort of thing, and also one that uses ie's [02:21] nothlit: Could you point me there? === silwol [n=silwol@193.170.68.74] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Gunirus [n=Gunirus@83.101.8.58] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === soundray [n=rolf@dsl-217-155-44-246.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === novice [n=amar@59.92.205.129] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Lazydog [n=Lazydog@dynamic-acs-24-154-13-41.zoominternet.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === ardchoille [n=Ian@unaffiliated/ardchoille42] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [03:13] Hi novice [03:13] hi [03:13] can u plz guide me?? [03:13] First of all, have you got any firefox plugins or extensions that you want to keep? [03:14] forget abt dat....... i will do dat again......no pro... [03:14] novice: okay. Have you got a terminal open? [03:14] yup [03:14] 'ls /var/cache/apt/archives/mozilla-firefox_*' -- how many files? [03:15] "no such file or directory" [03:15] How about 'ls /var/cache/apt/archives/*firefox*' === isocabin [i=issocabi@219.148.228.34] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [03:16] next?? [03:16] Any lines from that? === ardchoille [n=Ian@unaffiliated/ardchoille42] has left #ubuntu-classroom [] [03:16] it is just some arrow mark..... [03:16] *showing [03:16] novice: Hit Ctrl-C, and don't enter the quotes :) [03:17] sorry...... [03:17] novice: that's fine. It's sometimes easier for me to show you where the command begins and ends with quotes. [03:18] novice: have you tried again without the quote? [03:18] ya..... i'm getting some lines [03:18] 4 to 5 lines [03:18] novice: give me one that looks like it's a recent 1.5 package of firefox [03:19] /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.9-0ubuntu0.5.10.1_i386.deb [03:19] /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox-gnome-support_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.9-0ubuntu0.5.10.1_i386.deb [03:19] novice: okay [03:20] novice: remove the folder with the failed upgrade attempt: 'sudo rm -rf /usr/lib/firefox' [03:20] done...... [03:20] Now, do a 'sudo dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.9-0ubuntu0.5.10.1_i386.deb' [03:21] novice: it'll probably complain about some error... [03:21] no..... it didn't show any error [03:22] it showed dat setting up firefox..... [03:22] now asking for next command...... [03:22] novice: it should have recreated the folder. Check with 'ls /var/lib/firefox' [03:22] no such file or directory [03:23] Sorry, my bad [03:23] novice: it should have recreated the folder. Check with 'ls /usr/lib/firefox' [03:23] yup........ done.... [03:24] now can i start my firefox... [03:24] novice: to get 2.0, check out this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion [03:25] Note it's better to keep 1.5 around [03:25] Y dude?? [03:26] novice: that page will tell you [03:26] novice: you can use 2.0 for browsing, of course [03:26] k.... i have some more doubts...... can i ask U?? [03:26] Of course [03:27] in order copy the folders present on the desktop i used nautilus command ...... instead can't i use any command line [03:27] i tried with sudo cp -r....... [03:28] but it didn't work [03:28] novice: I don't quite follow. You've got a folder on the desktop that you want to move elsewhere? [03:29] i want to copy into root directory [03:30] for example i downloaded firefox 2.0 folder on to my desktop then i copied dat folder into root directory [03:30] can' t i use any command line [03:31] novice: there are two directories that are called root directories. One is /root (which is the root user's home), the other is '/', which holds everything else (like /home, /etc, /usr etc.) [03:31] novice: you shouldn't copy your stuff to either of those. [03:32] The best place to put your stuff would be your home directory. Type 'echo $HOME' to see what it's called. [03:32] if i want to use then wat command should i use [03:32] echo $HOME [03:32] 'mv Desktop/foldername $HOME' [03:34] no dude ........ wat i mean is ........ i downloaded some apple icons...... now i want them to put in /usr/share/pixmaps..... frm desktop... [03:34] wat command shld i use to do dis function?? [03:34] i tried with sudo cp -r ...... but didn't work [03:35] so i used nautilus..... [03:36] novice: if you do 'sudo cp file.xpm /usr/share/pixmaps/', that should work [03:36] no dude it didn't work..... it showed missing destination files [03:36] Oh, you probably haven't changed to the directory where your stuff is located [03:37] i did dat also.... [03:37] novice: does 'ls /usr/share/pixmaps/' return lots of filenames? [03:38] k........ wait.... i think there shld be gap b\w file name and destination...... rite?? [03:38] is dat a pro?? [03:38] Yes, that would be essential ;) [03:39] ya....... dat was the mistake.... [03:39] k.... thank u very much...... [03:40] can u temme briefly wat u did to restore my firefox?? i just wanna know... if u have time...?? === LjL [n=ljl@unaffiliated/ljl] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [03:42] No problem -- just give me a minute [03:44] Okay, back. Still here? [03:45] can u temme briefly wat u did to restore my firefox [03:45] We looked in your package cache, /var/cache/apt/archive, for a recent firefox package [03:45] Then we installed that, bypassing the apt mechanism. [03:46] This restored your botched /usr/lib/firefox [03:46] dpkg is the program that apt or synaptic also calls in order to do actual installations. [03:47] dpkg is sometimes more powerful when you're problem-solving. [03:47] Think of synaptic as the Swiss army knife, and of dpkg as the scalpel ;) [03:47] ya.... i have observed that ....... many times ppl use dpkg to solve the pro [03:49] k..... thank u very much dude..... will u be in this server at this time daily?? [03:49] It varies [03:49] I'm usually later in the day [03:50] But there are usually helpful people around. If you ask and don't get a good answer straight away, it's a good idea to ask again after an hour or so [03:50] its k..... i will try to catch u daily ;) [03:50] because new people keep logging on [03:51] ya ....... i have found many guys who help when i'm in trouble.. [03:51] BTW, have you considered upgrading to Dapper? [03:52] ya.... i will try it today night... [03:52] Good luck [03:52] thanx.... [03:53] novice: Good luck [03:53] gunirus: thanx.... === darich [n=trickyki@host217-43-139-176.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Scurz_ [n=sfantar@189.248.146.195.dynamic.adsl.abo.nordnet.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === jojoman02 [n=khan@201.229.200.114] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === jojoman02 [n=khan@201.229.200.114] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === jikanter [n=jordan@c-24-12-220-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === jrib [n=jasonr@upstream/dev/jrib] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === unop [n=sysops@82-47-200-4.stb.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === unop [n=sysops@82-47-200-4.stb.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"] === hybrid [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === nothlit [n=nothlit@n219077170221.netvigator.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom