[12:26] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: Currently building
[12:26] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: sweet
[12:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: you might want this other patch then ?
[12:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: so you only need to build once
[12:27] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: eventually yes ;)
[12:27] <_StefanS_> 2secs
[12:27] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: shouldn't we group the 2 patches ?
[12:27] <Tonio_> they provide the same thing
[12:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: well I think so.. they're part of the same
[12:27] <_StefanS_> exactly :)
[12:27] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'll merge them :)
[12:28] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: composing email-...
[12:28] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: sent..
[12:28] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: perfect thanks
[12:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: only kdmshutdown.cpp and kdmshutdown.h is changed
[12:29] <Tonio_> nice
[12:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: ignore that other stuff
[12:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: *.desktop files
[12:29] <Tonio_> +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=desktop_kdebase
[12:29] <Tonio_> +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=desktop_kdebase
[12:29] <Tonio_> +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=desktop_kdebase
[12:29] <Tonio_> +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=desktop_kdebase
[12:29] <Tonio_> +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=desktop_kdebase
[12:29] <Tonio_> +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=desktop_kdebase
[12:29] <Tonio_> what's this ?
[12:30] <Riddell> lots of gettext domains?
[12:30] <_StefanS_> I donno...
[12:30] <_StefanS_> nothing I messed with, thats for sure :)
[12:30] <Riddell> something has broken in cdbs kde.mk that it doesn't get cleared
[12:30] <Riddell> probably needs the rule name changed to whatever it should be
[12:30] <Riddell> worth seeing what gnome.mk uses
[12:31] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: screenshot of the kdm logout if curious: http://enhance-it.dk/kdm.png
[12:31] <Riddell> _StefanS_: lovely
[12:31] <_StefanS_> Riddell: thanks :D
[12:31] <_StefanS_> well next stop kdesu...
[12:32] <_StefanS_> also I would like to have the logout fade we're currently using to be faster, so I will test some valid options when doing the fade for kdesu anyways
[12:33] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: perfect, nice job really
[12:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have the solution for the fonts issue
[12:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: ooh?
[12:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: but I did an error while merging qt-x11 with debian :)
[12:33] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: thanks :) - It was a little easier this time because of the time I spent hacking the other dialog ;)
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: I missed the firebird-dev thing
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: the issue is a qt bug
[12:34] <Tonio_> debian has a patch for it, so I merged...
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: then I reuploaded again with all of KUBUNTU-DEBIAN-DIFFERENCE applied
[12:34] <Tonio_> but the server failed, error 500....
[12:34] <Tonio_> no chance :)
[12:35] <Tonio_> okay last upload was just accepted :)
[12:35] <Riddell> the data centre has been having problems
[12:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: so yes, fontconfig was not the issue....
[12:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: that explains :)
[12:36] <_StefanS_> Well I'm off guys..
[12:36] <_StefanS_> have a nice night ;)
[12:36] <Riddell> top stuff Tonio_
[12:37] <Riddell> so now we get the correct sans serif font?
[12:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: once the package is built yes
[12:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: I also think we should change qt-x11 default to sans serif
[12:38] <Tonio_> but that can be done with a next upload.... we are currently provide a "Dejavu" based qtrc
[12:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for the compliment, but in fact everything is due to debian :)
[12:38] <Tonio_> all I did is finding that the bug was qt and not fontconfig due to a few tests
[12:39] <Tonio_> in fact it worked with qt4 ;)
[12:39] <Tonio_> for once your speedcrunch helped ma hehe :)
[12:39] <Tonio_> I wouldn't have found the problem with my wanted kcalc :)
[12:40] <Riddell> told you, speedcrunch rules
[12:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: haha :)
[12:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm currently building kdebase with new media patches by _Sime and improved logout stuff by _Stefan
[12:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: next big bug to track is kdesktop missing translations !
[12:43] <Riddell> yes, that one is weird
[12:43] <Tonio_> s/track/check
[12:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll try to fix tomorrow.....
[12:43] <Riddell> it's like it isn't looking in /usr/share/locale-langpack or something
[12:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: what I don't understand is that some context menu options are translated, some are not....
[12:44] <Tonio_> so it's not completly ignoring translations.... just partly
[12:44] <Tonio_> things that work "partly" are the hardest ones to fix :/
[12:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: hug me when I fix it :)
[12:51] <Riddell> morning Hobbsee
[12:51] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:52] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i made some changes to k-d-s - i'm looking to discuss/commit them with Tonio_ at some point, FYI
[12:52] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: what are they ?
[12:52] <Riddell> now seems appropriate
[12:52] <Hobbsee> can i grab a shower first, before i get shot by mum?
[12:53] <Hobbsee> konvi defaults, mainly
[12:53] <Hobbsee> Riddell: nope, you dont :P
[12:53] <Hobbsee> kubuntu-default-settings (1:7.04-18) feisty; urgency=low
[12:53] <Hobbsee>   * Removed konversationui.rc - this was for 0.19, we are now on 1.0.1.
[12:53] <Hobbsee>      - Closes Malone #85948, and various other upstream bugs.
[12:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85948 in konversation "ctrl-,/. shortcut not working in konversation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85948
[12:53] <Hobbsee>   * Changed some of konversationrc
[12:53] <Hobbsee>      - Now defaults to port 8001 for freenode/ubuntu, to bypass an dcc exploit i
[12:53] <Hobbsee> n
[12:53] <Hobbsee>        certain routers.
[12:54] <Hobbsee>      - Moved the tabs back to the bottom, as it was originally decided that
[12:54] <Hobbsee>        tabs near the focus.
[12:54] <Hobbsee>      - Take out the square theme default - the konversation default looks far
[12:54] <Hobbsee>        more professional.
[12:54] <Hobbsee> in summary ^
[12:54] <Hobbsee> wow, that's formatted nastily
[12:54] <Hobbsee> was working full screen yesterday...
[12:54] <Tonio_> hum..... I disagree with the tabs on the left....
[12:54] <Riddell> tabs should be on the left
[12:55] <Tonio_> konvi is different from konsole, it is way more usable with tabs on the left, as all IRC clietns usually do.....
[12:55] <Hobbsee> if we're only opening one tab by default, that's a lot of wasted screen space
[12:55] <Hobbsee> and upstream is cursing, etc
[12:56] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: oncerning the default theme, well it looks more professionnal, but icons are perfectly ununderstandable :)
[12:56] <Tonio_> 4 squares with some colors.....
[12:56] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: the square ones are any better?
[12:56] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes, there is a O in the square for operators etc.....
[12:56] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: fortunately, all this is customisable - for the people who dont like it, they'll make all sorts of changes
[12:56] <Tonio_> they are understandable I think....
[12:57] <Hobbsee> i'm thinking that for new users or whatever, they dont know what O is, or that there are modes, etc.
[12:57] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I don't mind that we remove the square one, but please choose something that can make sense to a user that is used to irc :)
[12:57] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes, but new users won't understand them in any case
[12:57] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: power irc users will only understand the square one, not the default
[12:58] <Hobbsee> they learn.  but yeah, i see your poitn
[12:58] <Hobbsee> they were my suggestions, anyway
[12:58] <Hobbsee> sho_ seems to have the idea that we cant customise any of their app
[12:58] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I agree with the first part of the changes....
[12:58] <Hobbsee> which to the point of the menu items, i agree with
[12:58] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: but in my opinion the default theme is a pain
[12:58] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[12:58] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: to be honnest I'm using IRC for 7 years now
[12:59] <Tonio_> I NEVER have been able to understand the default theme :)
[12:59] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:59] <Hobbsee> see, taht's the odd thing - i do
[12:59] <Tonio_> O for operator, V for voice etc....
[12:59] <Hobbsee> all grey'd out means away, no coloured bits means you cant speak, all coloured bits means you're very important
[12:59] <Tonio_> square is the only theme that makes sense if you know irc a bit
[01:00] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: note that we can do our own theme or install another one via kds
[01:00] <Hobbsee> true
[01:00] <Tonio_> I don't oppose to this, but please don't use the horrible default :)
[01:00] <Hobbsee> i'm happy to keep that part in, anyway
[01:00] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:01] <Tonio_> :)
[01:01] <Hobbsee> the other question is about that kopetechatwindow.rc - why is it in ui-rc?
[01:01] <Hobbsee> and why do we have it there at all, if we're not checking what we're losing, as upstream makes new releases with features
[01:02] <Hobbsee> as for the amarokrc, we shortcut some of the keys - but not all of the default multimedia ones - we should fix this
[01:02] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: cause that defines the UI
[01:02] <Hobbsee> why are we designing a custom UI anyway?
[01:03] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: in fact it is badly named, should be called kopetechatwindowui.rc
[01:03] <Hobbsee> excluding konqi, where we're well known for it
[01:03] <Hobbsee> that's what i thought...
[01:03] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I don't remember why I changed this in kopete, but there is a good reason :)
[01:03] <Tonio_> let me look
[01:03] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:03] <Hobbsee> okay
[01:03] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes, there was bugs, like double separators etc...
[01:04] <Tonio_> I simply did something more "clean"
[01:04] <Hobbsee> ah right.  which version was that for?
[01:04] <Hobbsee> 0.11?
[01:04] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I don't remember :)
[01:04] <Tonio_> probably
[01:04] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: but the point is "if it works now, don't change it !"
[01:04] <Hobbsee> i'll bet that 0.12 has new menu options that we're hiding?
[01:04] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we'll have to redefined the all kds for feisty+1 with kde4
[01:04] <Hobbsee> true
[01:04] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: hum, good point
[01:05] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: well we can test byy deleting the fine in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings and compare :)
[01:05] <Hobbsee> in the case of konvi, apparently we were breaking it, and taking a 0.19 design into 1.0.1
[01:05] <Hobbsee> yes...i'd done that with konvi, hadnt gotten around to kopete yet
[01:05] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes, you're right with the update konvi new file, also for the 8001 port
[01:05] <Hobbsee> Mez: did that somewhere, i'm not sure where though
[01:06] <Hobbsee> and i'm thinking that file overwrites it, anyway
[01:06] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: is kopetechatwindowui.rc installed ?
[01:06] <Tonio_> I don't have it locally on my computer
[01:06] <Tonio_> oups not "ui" :)
[01:07] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I think we can drop that file indeed, I tested without it, there is not much changes....
[01:07] <Tonio_> I'd say not any in fact ;)
[01:07] <Hobbsee> right
[01:08] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: you have commit rights on bzr right ?
[01:08] <Hobbsee> yeah - i think i committed
[01:08] <Tonio_> so just remove that file, change makefiles, apply your changes for konvi and ping me
[01:08] <Tonio_> I'll build the package and upload
[01:09] <Mez> whats wrong eith the 8001 things?
[01:09] <Hobbsee> Mez: where'd you change the port 8001 for freenode?
[01:09] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: if you are unsure, just email me the changes and new konvi rc file and I'll commit
[01:09] <Hobbsee> Mez: not in konversationrc
[01:09] <Hobbsee> right
[01:09] <Mez> Hobbsee, no, in konversation's source :D where the channel and server name is changed
[01:10] <Tonio_> Mez: we need to change the things at 2 levels
[01:10] <Tonio_> Mez: source for gnome users using konvi
[01:10] <Tonio_> Mez: but as kubuntu-default-settings overrides the default, we have to change it there too
[01:10] <Mez> Tonio_, I presuemd that it was picked up from source
[01:10] <Tonio_> Mez: from both in fact
[01:11] <DaSkreech> Whee :)
[01:11] <DaSkreech> How does tagging of packages work?
[01:11] <Tonio_> Mez: well technically we shouldn't override the default via kds
[01:11] <Tonio_> but that was done before changing the defaults in the sources for non kde users :)
[01:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: eventually, try not to put the servers infos in konversationrc
[01:12] <Mez> Tonio_, the channel patch has been there for a long time... I made it in breezy I think
[01:12] <Tonio_> we should now use the defaults since they are patched in the sources
[01:12] <Tonio_> Mez: yes but we already patched that via kds :)
[01:12] <Tonio_> Mez: but you're right, we should look at using the defaults now they are patched
[01:13] <Mez> Tonio_, they've bene patched in the sources since I started using kubuntu
[01:13] <Mez> it was one  of my first patches
[01:28] <DaSkreech> How does tagging work on the packages?
[01:29] <alos> anyone know where the kubuntu installer source
[01:29] <alos> is?
[01:29] <Riddell> alos: which one?
[01:30] <Riddell> DaSkreech: it's called debtags, google should reveal all
[01:30] <alos> the one that installs from live cd to hard drive
[01:30] <Riddell> alos: apt-get source ubiquity
[01:30] <Riddell> or launchpad.net/ubiquity and click on Code for the bzr archive
[01:30] <alos> the name is ubiquity
[01:30] <alos> ok coo.
[01:30] <alos> cool.
[01:30] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Thanks the tag system in adept seems shot to hell
[01:30] <DaSkreech> Let me go see if i can find out why
[01:31] <Riddell> DaSkreech: it may be the current adept is not entirely compatible with the current debtags version
[01:31] <Riddell> I've seen it give error messages on the command line output
[01:32] <DaSkreech> Hmm I'll look into that
[01:33] <DaSkreech> I was looking for a accounting package and dragged over the Finance tag and got near everything unrelated to anything doing with money
[01:33] <DaSkreech> I'll be jumping to Beta when it's put out so maybe I can help with some patches then
[02:37] <DaSkreech> Which is?
[02:37] <Jucato> O.o
[02:38] <Hobbsee> the firefox under kde stuff
[02:38] <Hobbsee> i'd not realised it was all changed in about:config now
[02:38] <Jucato> ah
[02:38] <Hobbsee> which makes it very easy to create a user.js with new options, and install it with kubuntu-default-settings
[02:39] <Hobbsee> or a firefox-kde metapackage, i guess
[02:39] <Hobbsee> or adding it into firefox, and checking if kde is installed.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> er, wait.  the last option isnt so great
[02:40] <Jucato> hehe :)
[02:40] <Hobbsee> meta-package is better, as then it's removable
[02:40] <Hobbsee> seeing as this will be global, not just for KDE
[02:41] <MrWGW-> hey Hobbs, Jucato
[02:41] <Jucato> hi MrWGW-
[02:41] <Hobbsee> awww crap.  how does one photocopy a passport, if one only has a flatbed scanner
[02:42] <Hobbsee> heya MrWGW-
[02:42] <Jucato> scan as grayscale and print? :D
[02:42] <Hobbsee> it's a book
[02:42] <MrWGW-> I would suggest that you refrain from attempting to use it...
[02:42] <Jucato> oh...
[02:42] <MrWGW-> it will still fit
[02:42] <MrWGW-> close the lid on it
[02:43] <Hobbsee> MrWGW-: hrm?
[02:43] <Hobbsee> er, sorry, if one does *not* have a flatbed scanner
[02:43] <MrWGW-> ahhh
[02:43] <MrWGW-> photocopy it
[02:43] <Hobbsee> cant - it only photocopies paper
[02:43] <Hobbsee> not books
[02:43] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: why are you trying to photocopy a passport?
[02:43] <MrWGW-> err blah
[02:43] <MrWGW-> I'm sorry
[02:43] <MrWGW-> I meant
[02:43] <MrWGW-> photograph it
[02:44] <MrWGW-> ajmitch, its worth noting that many countries REQUIRE photocopies of passports to support official documentation
[02:44] <ajmitch> I know
[02:44] <MrWGW-> and you're supposed to carry a photocopy of your passport with you while travelling abroad
[02:44] <ajmitch> but it's more fun to hassle Hobbsee
[02:45] <MrWGW-> which, btw, I just applied to GNU
[02:45] <MrWGW-> :-P
[02:45] <ajmitch> yeah, please keep your insanity at an appropriate distance
[02:45] <DaSkreech> MrWGW-: You forked GNU?
[02:46] <MrWGW-> well, I'm in the process thereof
[02:46] <MrWGW-> I "raped" their FTP server last night
[02:46] <MrWGW-> so I have all the code
[02:46] <MrWGW-> now its just a question of figuring out what to upload first, and what needs to be renamed to avoid walking on their trademarks (if they have any)
[02:47] <MrWGW-> my fork will remain availible under its current license, as opposed to the official tree which will undoubtably convert to GPL v3 or later as part of the FSF's master plan to force us all to use that license
[02:47] <MrWGW-> and no, I'm not recruiting Kubuntu developers
[02:47] <MrWGW-> the fork includes a fork of GNOME
[02:47] <MrWGW-> which I have yet to download in source form, btw
[02:48] <DaSkreech> MrWGW-: Make it a spork
[02:48] <MrWGW-> haha
[02:49] <MrWGW-> my desire is to take LT's recently submitted patch to GNOME, apply it to stable code, compile it, and if it works, that will solve that problem
[02:50] <MrWGW-> IMO GNOME is more broken then KDE, and that's why I've mainly been interested in contributing artwork etc to KDE based distros
[02:51] <DaSkreech> flux ftw :)
[02:54] <MrWGW-> I like fluxbox, I don't use it though
[03:00] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: to prove that i'm an aussie citizen at my time of birth.  dunno how a current passport does that, though
[03:01] <Hobbsee> er + date
[03:03] <ajmitch> heh
[03:29] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:29] <ajmitch> great
[03:31] <Hobbsee> yep :)
[03:31] <Jucato> is applicatoin related to moin?
[03:32] <jjesse> quick question what version of firefox is included in feisty?
[03:33] <Jucato> !info firefox feisty
[03:33] <ubotu> firefox: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.0.1+1-0ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 9007 kB, installed size 28580 kB
[03:33] <jjesse> thanks Jucato
[03:35] <DaSkreech> !botsnack
[03:35] <ubotu> Yum!
[03:35] <DaSkreech> I'm warming up to the bot :)
[03:36] <DaSkreech> on a related note the about kubuntu page will work in firefox in feisty ?
[03:36] <Jucato> DaSkreech: we've been through this right? :D #ubuntu-doc :)
[03:37] <jdong> !botsmack
[03:37] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about botsmack - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[03:37] <jdong> aww
[03:37] <DaSkreech> Yeah I was trying to get !botslap added
[03:38] <jdong> !botldap
[03:38] <DaSkreech> With an appropriate Yes master! I will try to do better next time response
[03:38] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about botldap - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[03:38] <jdong> nope that doesn't work either.
[03:49] <DaSkreech> Man I should apply for a passport!
[03:49] <jjesse> why DaSkreech?
[03:49] <DaSkreech> Free Fruit platter :)
[03:50] <DaSkreech> jjesse: are you on the new Ubuntu book?
[03:50] <jjesse> finishing changes tonight :)
[03:50] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: no.  i found the apples when i went shopping last night, and mum had the bananas :P
[03:50] <Hobbsee> so almost free
[03:50] <jjesse> well hopeflly tonight
[03:51] <DaSkreech> jjesse: Is it an extension of the first book or rewritten?
[03:51] <jjesse> DaSkreech: it started out as an update, but i'm rewriting the whole thing because so much changed
[03:52] <DaSkreech> Ok. There were a whole slew of errors/typos/misleading thingys in the first book
[03:52] <jjesse> yeah i know that as well
[03:52] <jjesse> which is why i'm re writting so much
[03:52] <DaSkreech> Your section had few but if you like I'll be willing to proofread
[03:52] <jjesse> DaSkreech: that would be fine, email me
[03:53] <DaSkreech> Oh right you work on icthux
[03:54] <DaSkreech> How's that going?
[03:54] <jjesse> slow so far
[03:54] <jjesse> i think most of the people are busy working on ubuntu/kubuntu stuff
[03:55] <Hobbsee> wouldnt suprise me
[03:56] <Jucato> you didn't drown the first time
[03:57] <DaSkreech> It could have red I'm drowning :)
[03:57] <DaSkreech> read
[03:57] <DaSkreech> http://marcellino.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/uma-breve-historia-sobre-hackers-jonathan-james/
[03:58] <Hobbsee> the reason my sponsors mail wasnt getting delivered to the sponsors folder, was because i'd changed where the sponsors folder was in the heirachy, gmail couldnt find the folder, so forwarded it to the inbox, and the normal rules handled it
[06:51] <LaserJock> anybody about?
[06:54] <nixternal> no
[06:54] <nixternal> we are all on vacation
[06:55] <LaserJock> vacation!
[06:55] <LaserJock> who gets vacations!
[06:55] <LaserJock> back to work!
[06:55] <nixternal> I don't, that's for sure
[06:55] <LaserJock> ;)
[06:56] <nixternal> I did homework tonight
[06:56] <LaserJock> I keep missing the Big Kahuna
[06:56] <nixternal> ya, you have to wake up early for him
[06:57] <LaserJock> trying to track down this weird power issue
[06:57] <nixternal> still tracking it down
[06:57] <LaserJock> I don't even know where to start
[06:57] <nixternal> what is the issue?
[06:58] <LaserJock> KDE just shuts down my laptop
[06:58] <LaserJock> hard
[06:58] <nixternal> are you dual booting with ubuntu, or have the gnome desktop installed as well?
[06:58] <LaserJock> gnome as well
[06:58] <joejaxx> :) :D
[06:59] <nixternal> that's why. That is Kubuntu's way of telling you that you need to get rid of the inferior DE. come'on, you didn't read Linus' post this week :)
[06:59] <LaserJock> of course I did, that's why I was in KDE in the first place
[06:59] <LaserJock> then it went down hard
[06:59] <nixternal> LaserJock: does it just shutdown on its own, locking the lid?
[06:59] <LaserJock> twice
[06:59] <LaserJock> on it's own
[07:00] <LaserJock> I'm sitting there typing and boom, it's gone
[07:00] <nixternal> hrmm
[07:00] <nixternal> that is not good
[07:00] <LaserJock> last time it took 2 reboots to get everything in order
[07:00] <nixternal> hrmm
[07:00] <crimsun> well, there's weird hal+*dm+acpi stuff interacting currently
[07:00] <nixternal> anything funky in the logs?
[07:00] <LaserJock> imbrandon said the power management is the same backend
[07:00] <LaserJock> so I can't figure out why it'd do it
[07:01] <crimsun> for instance, killing the X server if running gdm will restart the computer
[07:01] <LaserJock> crimsun: but would that cause a KDE specific problem?
[07:01] <crimsun> no, it's *dm-agnostic
[07:01] <crimsun> we're amidst an X.Org transition, a hal transition, a kernel transition, and who knows what else
[07:01] <crimsun> stuff is /going/ to break.
[07:02] <LaserJock> well sure
[07:02] <nixternal> where are the ops when you need to kick the sh!t out of someone stupid
[07:02] <crimsun> nixternal: where?
[07:02] <LaserJock> but I wouldn't think it would selectively break KDE
[07:02] <nixternal> #kubuntu
[07:02] <nixternal> they don't listen to me or jucato
[07:02] <nixternal> kite is a troll
[07:02] <crimsun> reading backscroll
[07:03] <Jucato> nixternal: I'm just waiting for him to do something stupid again
[07:03] <LaserJock> crimsun: do you know what the appropriate log file would be to look at?
[07:03] <nixternal> ahh, you have the powers ey?
[07:04] <nixternal> I am just a peon I guess
[07:04] <Jucato> nixternal: yessssh :)
[07:04] <crimsun> he's being annoying, yes, but not anything abruptly worth booting imo
[07:04] <Jucato> +1 crimsun
[07:04] <Jucato> at least nothing yet
[07:04] <nixternal> no, don't need to boot um
[07:05] <crimsun> LaserJock: /var/log/syslog, possibly the *dm log files or /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[07:05] <nixternal> haha LaserJock
[07:05] <nixternal> I was going to bed
[07:05] <nixternal> but I can't find my way
[07:06] <crimsun> yes, aptitude install ubuntu-desktop ...
[07:06] <crimsun> oops, wrong channel!
[07:06] <nixternal> aptitude purge ubuntu-desktop
[07:07] <Jucato> sudo aptitude purge --purge-unused ubuntu-desktop :D
[07:07] <nixternal> haha
[07:07] <Jucato> yes, I know I'm brutal :P
[07:07] <nixternal> sudo apt-get install windows-vista
[07:07] <nixternal> might as well since you are doing the ubuntu-desktop thing :)
[07:07] <nixternal> haha
[07:07] <Jucato> bah wrong channel... I don't have cow powers in here :)
[07:08] <nixternal> heh, I don't get how I am on the op team, but don't have any op powers
[07:08] <nixternal> e.tarded if you ask me
[07:08] <LaserJock> nixternal: dude, that was way worse
[07:08] <nixternal> what was?
[07:08] <nixternal> dude, you didn't listen to me did you?
[07:09] <LaserJock> nixternal: apt-get install windows-vista is way worse than apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ;-)
[07:09] <nixternal> oh
[07:09] <nixternal> haha
[07:09] <nixternal> I was playing with beryl earlier
[07:09] <Jucato> nixternal: you're an op in #ubuntu-ops.. if that matters :)
[07:09] <nixternal> I don't see the hooplah
[07:09] <nixternal> Jucato: level 5 != op
[07:09] <Jucato> ah ok
[07:09] <Jucato> lol
[07:10] <Jucato> lol
[07:11] <nixternal> haha, dude asked me how to change his nickserv password. I told him to message it to me and I will do it
[07:11] <nixternal> lol
[07:11] <Jucato> roflmao
[07:11] <Tm_T> Err, ok.
[07:12] <nixternal> he didn't fall for it
[07:12] <Jucato> snap! :D
[07:13] <LaserJock> well, syslog wasn't so helpful. Network Manager is very verbose though
[07:15] <nixternal> g'nite all
[07:16] <Jucato> night nixternal! sweet kDreams
[07:16] <LaserJock> lol
[07:17] <Jucato> hehe
[07:30] <DaSkreech> Well I have my Kdream music for the night
[07:30] <DaSkreech> Gnight all
[10:49] <_StefanS_> morning
[11:11] <Tonio_> hi
[11:11] <Jucato> hi Tonio_
[11:17] <Tonio_> _Sime: nice work with the media things ;) it is far away better now !
[11:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: what's changed?
[11:31] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: nice packaging :) - received the updates this morning
[11:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: icon names on the desktop etc...
[11:32] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: are the fonts okay fot you now ?
[11:33] <Tonio_> http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-5092116675912812500
[11:33] <Tonio_> you should look at this, that really impressive
[11:34] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: fonts okay ? I noticed they have the same size now as the username/password fields in kdm
[11:35] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yes that means they are fixed :)
[11:38] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: thats freaking impressive
[11:38] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yes ;)
[11:39] <Tonio_> I already saw things like that, but this one is the most impressive by far
[11:39] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: its amazing when using those simple tools
[11:40] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: but you can see its an artists hand working there
[11:44] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: what was the problem with the fonts anyway? DPI settings ?
[11:46] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: bad width with certain of them...
[12:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: something I thought about concerning the space usage on the cd
[12:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: what appart from speedcrunch is using qt4 ?
[12:37] <Tonio_> because qt4 just for speedcrunch would mean that we are loosing :
[12:37] <Riddell> umm... ubiquity  :)
[12:37] <Tonio_> okay :)
[12:37] <Riddell> language-installer too
[12:38] <Riddell> apport now as well
[12:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: not to burry speedcrunch once again, I'm just searching for ways to free some space....
[12:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: how about winfloss cleaning ?
[12:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: who should we ping to ask ?
[12:38] <Riddell> heno
[12:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: fyi, I tested kexi.... works, bu really unstable
[12:38] <Tonio_> I'd say beta1 level
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes I saw taht
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: kexi is 16 MB
[12:39] <Tonio_> that would free lots of space just to remove this :)
[12:39] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, it's appeared.  it's really making the menu quite clogged
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: will you ping heno or can I ?
[12:39] <Hobbsee> Riddell: do we want konvi to start up a system tray icon?
[12:40] <Hobbsee> on the basis that systray icons are evil?
[12:40] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: that should be in "help" in apps, not in the kmenu.....
[12:40] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes we should
[12:40] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yes we should to which?
[12:40] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: for apps that mean "we are staying connected for long" the systray is very usefull
[12:40] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: that's what i was thinking @ the help in apps
[12:41] <Hobbsee> hrm, possibly.  but it's yet another systray icon
[12:41] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I'd say konvi and kopete are the to that we should keep
[12:41] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: there aren't that many apps that are started in the tray
[12:41] <Riddell> Tonio_: depends on what you'll ask him :)
[12:42] <Riddell> Hobbsee: /I/ don't want it in the systray but everyone else seems to expect it
[12:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll discuss with him on what I think isn't stable enough and mature to stay on the cd ;)
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: kopete is kinda different.  you only load konvi once, then minimise it
[12:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: in my opinion, kdepim, speedcrunch and kexi should go
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: heh.  dunno why
[12:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: we can keep the other apps
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: is the kdepim, etc, actually being updated at all?
[12:42] <Riddell> speedcrunch is perfectly mature
[12:42] <Tonio_> kdepim and kexi are not stable enough to be used, and speedcrunch is juste, mostly useless for a windows user...
[12:43] <Riddell> windows users don't do sums?
[12:43] <Hobbsee> they have that window calculator
[12:43] <Riddell> kdepim doesn't seem to be maintained
[12:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, but in my opinion useless, as the windows default calculator is much more powerfull than kcal :)
[12:43] <Hobbsee> which has a scientific mode, etc
[12:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: honnestly the default windows calc is very powerfull
[12:43] <Tonio_> can do syn, cos, tan etc...
[12:44] <Tonio_> no need of speedcrunch for them
[12:44] <Hobbsee> what's syn?  :P
[12:44] <Tonio_> for kubuntu, I agree kcalc is really limited
[12:44] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: synus, cossynus etc.... maybe english names are different...;
[12:44] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: that's geometry
[12:44] <Hobbsee> ah.  sin.
[12:44] <Tonio_> syn in french ;)
[12:44] <Hobbsee> sine, cosine, tan, are the english equivalents :)
[12:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: of course speedcrunch is mature, but I don't see any window user saying "wow, super calculator, let's install !"
[12:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: the windows one is already the same level than speedcrunch
[12:45] <Tonio_> if not better
[12:46] <Tonio_> can do convertions too....
[12:47] <Tonio_> and well the speedcrunch setup is 4MB, bigger than digikam :)
[12:51] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: those ping's, do I need to set something up to make konversation react to them ?
[12:51] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: not really.  it usually flashes
[12:52] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: oka, you mean the trayicon (?)
[12:52] <Hobbsee> or the window, + the channel
[12:52] <Hobbsee> see settings, configure notifications
[12:52] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: ok then..
[12:53] <Hobbsee> in particular, for when your nick is mentioend
[12:54] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: ok, I already have that... I was just wondering how you were set up
[12:54] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that's better no ? :)
[12:54] <Hobbsee> ahh :)
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: looks possible to change winfloss, kool ;)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yay!
[12:56] <Tonio_> [12:56]  <heno> Tonio_: so that leaves firefox, thunderbird and scribus
[12:56] <Hobbsee> what's scribus?
[12:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: I gave my comments concerning speedcrunch and said he should see that with you :)
[12:57] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: free equivalent to quark Xpress
[12:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know you LOVE speedcrunch :) but the need of this on kubuntu and windows is really different....
[12:57] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[12:58] <_StefanS_> by works
[12:58] <_StefanS_> by/but
[12:59] <Tonio_> okay so kdepim, kexi and speedcrunch will be droped..... that'll give a bit a fresh air to include interesting stuff :)
[01:00] <Riddell> well as I say, it's not really possible in a 1 CD distro to include interesting stuff, base OS is all
[01:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: I agree we cannot ship with everything
[01:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: but to me (personnal opinion) digikam is to be considered as k3b or amarok, as bsolutly needed apps
[01:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: everyone as a numeric camera nowadays
[01:03] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: and a burner ;)
[01:03] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that's why I say "the same"
[01:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: I agree plugins are not necessary on a 1 cd distro
[01:03] <Tonio_> and I'd say eventually that a voip software is "optional"
[01:03] <Riddell> numeric?
[01:04] <Hobbsee> digital, probably
[01:04] <Tonio_> digital sorry :) (french bad translation)
[01:04] <Riddell> what's the French word?
[01:04] <Tonio_> we say "numrique" in french :)
[01:04] <Riddell> formidable
[01:04] <Tonio_> tout  fait :)
[01:04] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: how much space is left on the cd ?
[01:04] <Riddell> _StefanS_: none
[01:05] <_StefanS_> Riddell: greate
[01:05] <_StefanS_> great even ;)
[01:05] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: droping kexi, kdepim and speedcrunch, about 28MB
[01:05] <Riddell> infact, about negative 10 MB
[01:05] <Hobbsee> then drop all the windows apps :P
[01:05] <Tonio_> depends if Riddell already have plans to include other stuff :)
[01:05] <Riddell> since we currently don't have example-content, and that's a requirement (alas)
[01:05] <Hobbsee> what, complete with the "fill this in here"?
[01:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: I also wonder aboug scribus....
[01:06] <Tonio_> only professionnal need this no ?
[01:06] <Tonio_> my mother doesn't I guess
[01:06] <_StefanS_> leave out scribus
[01:06] <_StefanS_> you can do much of the stuff in OOo anyways
[01:06] <Tonio_> firefox and thunderbird are perfect, I'd say eventually I'd favor for example gimp to scribus in winfloss....
[01:06] <Tonio_> I don't see who except in companies are using scribus
[01:07] <Tonio_> and companies don't use the kubuntu cd to install windows apps btw ;)
[01:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: no ?
[01:07] <_StefanS_> well I could imagine if I were doing school essays I might use something like scribus to set up the pages properly
[01:07] <Riddell> the idea is to include sample KDE apps
[01:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, and the problem is that kde apps on windows are..... bloated except scribus, I agree
[01:08] <_StefanS_> Riddell: do you plan to include thunderbird and firefox as default, like Tonio_ mentions ? (good idea)
[01:08] <Hobbsee> which is semi-depreciated, as it's now a live cd?
[01:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: but scribus is 17MB....
[01:08] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it has always been a live CD
[01:08] <Riddell> _StefanS_: we always have yes
[01:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's a lot for something 95% users will never see the need of....
[01:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is in fact the biggest app on winfloss....
[01:09] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'm talking about winfloss, not kubuntu !
[01:09] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: sorry
[01:09] <Tonio_> no firefox on kubuntu PLEASE ! :)
[01:09] <Tonio_> lol
[01:09] <Tonio_> ;)
[01:10] <_StefanS_> though you were talking about dentalfloss
[01:10] <_StefanS_> thought :D
[01:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: and btw, scribus is not a kde apps :)
[01:10] <Tonio_> it's a qt one like googleearth
[01:11] <Riddell> talking of google earth, I tried marble the other day, it's very nice
[01:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: what is marble ?
[01:11] <Riddell> basic google earth clone
[01:11] <Riddell> but it doesn't need accelarated hardware, would be cool to have it replace the map in ubiquity (summer of code task!)
[01:12] <Riddell> anyway, I'd go for speedcrunch and kexi on the winfoss
[01:12] <Tonio_> since to me scribus is really..... useless, even if fantastic application
[01:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: you want kexi on winfloss ?
[01:12] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: does basket work on windows?
[01:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I don't know
[01:13] <Hobbsee> it seems not :(
[01:13] <Riddell> no, basket is KDE only
[01:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you try to use it ? it crashes every 3 minutes....
[01:13] <praetor> Tonio_: why no firefox?
[01:13] <Tonio_> praetor: already in
[01:14] <Tonio_> I'm just concerned by the interest for the people in apps we are providing...
[01:15] <Tonio_> speedcrunch dupes something already on windows, with nothing better, scribus is an app designed for professional usage....
[01:16] <Tonio_> krita eventually would be interesting, but that's linux only atm
[01:17] <Riddell> yes, the selection of KDE apps on windows is pretty limited, should be much cooler with KDE 4
[01:17] <Jucato> what winfoss apps does the Ubuntu Desktop come with?
[01:17] <Jucato> er. "Desktop CD"
[01:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: true, I agree on that point
[01:17] <Riddell> Jucato: firefox, thunderbird, gimp, inkscape, something else I can't remember
[01:18] <Riddell> maybe Dia
[01:18] <Jucato> ah
[01:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: but to be clear, I think I missunderstood your last message
[01:18] <Riddell> we used to include open office, now that did take up space :)
[01:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: do you want kexi and speedcrunch on the cd ?
[01:18] <Jucato> Tonio_: seeing as the Ubuntu Desktop CD already has the GIMP and Inkscape, maybe it would be better to leave Scribus on ours :)
[01:18] <Riddell> Tonio_: that would be my choice for winfoss, and scrap scribus and kdepim
[01:18] <Jucato> oh
[01:19] <Riddell> it might come with Gaim too
[01:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: you really should install kexi on windows and try it.... I did
[01:19] <Riddell> worked last I tried it
[01:19] <Tonio_> hum, it launches yes, but I tried to use it for one hour, 4 crashes in my case....
[01:20] <Tonio_> but well maybe that's just my windows machine.... I don't know
[01:21] <Tonio_> I agree if it is stable, we should/can keep it
[01:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: but concerning speedcrunch... it currently is like a pure copy of the default calc
[01:21] <Riddell> it is a commercially supported app, so it should be
[01:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay for kexi then....
[01:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: kexi is nice, and powerfull, maybe my tweaked windows just didn't like it :)
[01:22] <_StefanS_> Jucato: just swap some words
[01:22] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I know it's probably grammatically correct.. it just sounds strange :)
[01:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: let's drop scribus for kexi then I'm okay
[01:22] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it is, kyes
[01:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: kexi can be more usefull for windows users scribus is
[01:32] <Tonio_> btw, if I was "god" to decide, I'd drop the all winfloss :)
[01:32] <Jucato> lol
[01:32] <Tonio_> softwares can be a luxury on a 1CD distro, I agree
[01:32] <Tonio_> but then winfloss is even more a luxury...
[01:34] <_StefanS_> err.... yep.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> kexi's the DB thing isnt it?  seeing how crap access is, i think that'd be a welcome change
[01:35] <Tonio_> especially when theopencd already does a winderfull job !
[01:36] <Riddell> we don't give out openCDs though
[01:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: we should! haha :)
[01:36] <Hobbsee> we could start, or at least link to it :P
[01:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: joking of course :)
[01:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: remember what sebas suggested :
[01:37] <Tonio_> "replace winfloss with a good page describing kubuntu, with installation instructions and links for externall things, like theopencd"
[01:37] <Tonio_> I LOVE that idea
[01:37] <Tonio_> more efficient, no space usage !
[01:37] <Tonio_> simply perfect
[01:38] <Tonio_> we could even link to firefox, thunderbird etc...
[01:38] <Tonio_> nixternal could do a very good and usefull job on that point....
[01:40] <Hobbsee> i think Riddell's stopped listening to you, Tonio_ :P
[01:40] <Jucato> :)
[01:40] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I would do the same if I were him :)
[01:41] <Jucato> if he were you and you were him... @_@
[01:41] <Tonio_> btw it is probably too late for feisty, but that really should be discussed during the UDS for feisty+1
[01:42] <Tonio_> we cannot spend our time fighting with the space usage for (in my opinion) bad reasons
[01:42] <Tonio_> we already are splitting lots of package to remove docs etc.....
[01:42] <Riddell> lots?
[01:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I admit "lot" was too much :)
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: but we splitted digikam for this, and now we remove it :)
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: debian just synced their packaging with us
[01:43] <Riddell> it's still on the amd64 CD
[01:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: indeed, good point
[01:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: not to bother you on that point, I understand there are things behind this
[01:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: but can we think about a feisty+1 without winfloss, or is that impossible due to shipit and canonical marketing's plan ?
[01:46] <Riddell> yes, it's required
[01:46] <Riddell> but I really think you undervalue winfoss
[01:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: maybe...
[01:46] <Riddell> most people who get given a CD will not end up installing kubuntu
[01:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: well I understand the need of that kind of thing
[01:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: just that winfloss super limited compared theopencd, and handicaps kubuntu a lot
[01:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: the perfect thing would be that shipit comes out with 2 cds, 1 kubuntu and theopencd
[01:48] <Tonio_> or switch to dvd as everyone does
[01:48] <Tonio_> but 1cd as lots of advantages too so.....
[01:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't get me wrong, I understand and agree that winfloss promotes freesoftwares a lot
[01:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm just wondering if promoting free softwares over windows is nice....
[01:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: to me that's dangerous :)
[01:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: like wine.... wow would have benn ported on linux without wine/cedega
[01:49] <Riddell> yes it is, that's why we should only include buggy applications :)
[01:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: same problem here for me, but that's a very personal vision, I agree
[01:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: haha :)
[01:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: even when talking about very nice apps like firefox
[01:51] <Tonio_> firefox success on windows means what ?
[01:51] <Tonio_> no more optimisation and integration on linux
[01:51] <Tonio_> and I'd say the same for kde4 and windows, that's very dangerous too....
[01:52] <Riddell> that's freedom for you
[01:52] <Tonio_> what will I answer to people asking "what is better with linux ?"
[01:52] <Tonio_> "nothing, you'll get the same desktop and apps, just with hardware and drivers problems !!"
[01:52] <Tonio_> hard to convince someone to switch then :)
[01:52] <Riddell> yakake!
[01:52] <Tonio_> haha :)
[01:52] <Tonio_> yakUake ;), my favorite one :)
[01:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: well the new MS shell is unfortunatelly very nice :)
[01:53] <Tonio_> can be compared to bash.....
[01:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: but talking about "undervaluing"
[01:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: you may know I'm considered a MS/windows "expert"
[01:57] <Tonio_> I know exactly how are people using their windows :
[01:57] <Tonio_> - just use the defaults
[01:57] <Tonio_> - install simantec shit because that well known
[01:58] <Tonio_> - consider something that you don't pay for is logivally bloated...
[01:59] <Tonio_> before switching to linux, I used exclusivelly free softwares with windows
[01:59] <Tonio_> and I spent MONTH convincing people that something that you don't pay for is very often better than paying things.....
[01:59] <Hobbsee> The digiKam team is proud to announce the first beta release digiKam 0.9.1 and digiKamimageplugins 0.9.1.
[02:00] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we don't but allee will do it, no doubt :)
[02:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: in my opinion, in fact, someone that will somehow get the kubuntu cd is already an interested user
[02:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: that means he already knows what firefox is btw :)
[02:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: but yes, I'm not a marketing expert, so let's canonical decide ;)
[02:02] <Tonio_> I'm just concerned about the handicap when you compare what you get with an opensuse install out of the box, that comes with everything you will ever need....
[02:03] <Tonio_> same for mandriva btw
[02:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: changing the subject, new dpkg requires that a *ubuntu* version has a ubuntu.com maintainer
[02:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: I've put your name for kdebase and qt-x11-free, is that okay ?
[02:05] <Tonio_> or should we use something like "developpers@kubuntu.org" ?
[02:06] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, that's fine
[02:06] <Riddell> Tonio_: it could be kubuntu-devel@lists.u ..
[02:07] <Tonio_> Kubuntu Development Team <kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
[02:07] <Tonio_> like this then ?
[02:09] <Tonio_> I'll write an email to the frozen bobble team....
[02:09] <Tonio_> yesterday I went level 75 without loosing anytime... too easy ;)
[02:16] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: did you notice when you click on thunderbird/firefox icons in kicker the icon is just a generic gear, not the actual app icons (?)
[02:17] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that's a gtk-qt-engines tweak
[02:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: err.. a bug you mean ?
[02:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: or feature ? :D
[02:17] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I can't reprocude here in fact
[02:17] <Tonio_> reproduce
[02:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I just took the application entries from Kmenu->Internet and dragged them to kicker
[02:18] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: did the same, no probem with the icon here....
[02:18] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: its only after you reboot/logout its wrong ..
[02:18] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: to start with, like you did - it works :)
[02:18] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: let me check
[02:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: works here.... sorry !
[02:22] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: what the heck... hmm wierd
[02:23] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I mean the bouncing feedback, is that what you mean also?
[02:23] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: The kicker icon is fine, its the launch feedback "bouncing cursor" that craps out
[02:23] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: displaying only a gear
[02:26] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'll have to investigate but here I can't reproduce....
[02:26] <Tonio_> I'll try with herd4
[02:26] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: well I could try that also..
[02:28] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: btw, wasnt upstart suppose to make the boot faster ? :) - cause I havent really seen that happening
[02:29] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: feisty is longuer than edgy
[02:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yea I thought so also
[02:29] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: but the speed gain was really there with edgy
[02:30] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yea.. donno what happened. Also the dhcp delay is just nuts (30secs) if you're on a laptop
[02:31] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: it should check link up/down and then move on as nessecary
[02:32] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yup, but well I don't really know how upstart works and what it does :)
[02:33] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: to me that "just works" so that's okay :)
[02:33] <Tonio_> I should look at it in the future.... :)
[02:33] <_StefanS_> yes..
[02:33] <_StefanS_> probably
[02:34] <nixternal> moins
[02:35] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: hmm seems like my current updated herd1 -> latest have an issue with that icon.. it works in a standard feisy herd 4 (latest)
[02:38] <_StefanS_> I was just wondering... do we some hardware to speed up development for kubuntu ?
[02:40] <Riddell> nope
[02:41] <Riddell> one day we'll get personal package archives to do the compiling for us
[02:41] <_StefanS_> personal package archives ?
[02:41] <LongPointyStick> _StefanS_: imbrandon has a build machine, there are various people giving out ssh access to their machines
[02:42] <_StefanS_> LongPointyStick: I guess I have one 2.16ghz core duo laptop that could be used for that purpose
[02:42] <_StefanS_> LongPointyStick: its always on
[02:42] <LongPointyStick> true

[02:43] <_StefanS_> LongPointyStick: its pretty fast actually, who should I contact about such stuff... Riddell ?
[02:44] <LongPointyStick> dunno..maybe him, maybe me
[02:44] <Riddell> _StefanS_: there's nothing format organised
[02:44] <Riddell> it might be an idea to do that, but it should be done with ubuntu-motu I think
[02:44] <_StefanS_> oh yea ofcourse
[02:45] <_StefanS_> (but not very fast either)
[02:45] <_StefanS_> back to the reading..
[04:40] <DaSkreech> Is there anyway to change the bootsplash text from being blue
[04:45] <nixternal> DaSkreech: don't know of a config file, but maybe somewhere in the source?
[04:45] <nixternal> I am checking now
[04:45] <Riddell> yes, there is
[04:46] <Jucato> Riddell: is there a wiki or page somewhere that explains the merits of USplash over other bootsplash engines?
[04:47] <nixternal> hrmm, I see where foreground is hardcoded in a example-theme dir
[04:47] <nixternal> eft-theme.c
[04:47] <nixternal> .text_foreground = 0x31;
[05:07] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Marble is nice. Has some good applications as well :)
[05:08] <Riddell> feel free to integrate it into ubiquity if you have a bored weekend :)
[05:09] <Jucato> heh :)
[05:12] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: Firefox has always been Windows App. For the foreseeable future it will be a Windows app. Deal with it
[05:13] <Jucato> O.o
[05:15] <DaSkreech> OK caught up now
[05:16] <DaSkreech> Tonio_ was complaining that firefox success on Windows means less integration for LInux
[05:16] <Jucato> -_-
[05:16] <DaSkreech>  Firefox was always a Windows Application. It's mostly due to it's heritage that it runs on other OSes
[05:17] <DaSkreech> it was designed and created simply to destroy IE and make the Web usable again.
[05:19] <DaSkreech> nixternal: So without a recompile. No.
[05:22] <abattoir> Riddell: speaking of marble, using SIP is the best way to pythonize it?
[05:23] <Riddell> abattoir: for Qt it should be
[05:23] <Riddell> although I've never done it
[05:25] <abattoir> Riddell: as i told you before, i'll have a go at it for oem-config
[05:27] <Riddell> abattoir: cool, but don't block getting oem-config uploaded for adding luxury features
[05:27] <Riddell> it's important to get it in the distro as soon as possible
[05:27] <abattoir_> Riddell: yeah, i'll try my best, else i'll revert to the map that's currently being used
[05:28] <Riddell> abattoir_: actually, marble isn't in main and I don't know if we can fit it on the CD so it probably isn't an option
[05:28] <abattoir_> Riddell: i've been working using ubiquity as the backend, as the backend is not ready yet
[05:29] <abattoir_> Riddell: aah ok, then
[05:36] <DaSkreech> Jucato: ervin's blog?
[05:36] <DaSkreech> Whoops
[05:53] <Riddell> kwwii: did you get round to doing the kubuntu usplash?
[05:56] <kwwii> Riddell: since I missed the deadline for herd4 I put it off for a few days
[05:56] <kwwii> Riddell: been working on the logo itself
[05:56] <kwwii> that will be the main change
[05:56] <kwwii> making it look better
[05:56] <kwwii> and then using that in the usplash, kdm and ksplash
[05:57] <Riddell> groovy
[05:57] <kwwii> oh, and making a nicer progress bar the usplash (that is done)
[06:00] <DaSkreech> Will there be new wallpapers etc for Feisty?
[06:01] <kwwii> DaSkreech: nothing radically new, just tweaking the colors
[06:01] <kwwii> someone mentioned working on an amarok theme
[06:02] <DaSkreech> Seen the new splash screen?
[06:02] <kwwii> DaSkreech: which one?
[06:02] <kwwii> haven't seen feisty live
[06:03] <kwwii> my vmware won't install it
[06:04] <Riddell> we turn off the amarok splash screen in kubuntu
[06:04] <DaSkreech> Hmm can't get to websvn
[06:05] <DaSkreech> http://commit-digest.org/issues/2007-02-18/moreinfo/632951/#visual
[06:05] <DaSkreech> That'll do
[06:06] <kwwii> well, that is quite a change
[06:06] <DaSkreech> :-D
[06:06] <kwwii> I wonder what it is supposed to mean :p
[06:12] <DaSkreech> Amarok 2.0 is uderway
[06:14] <DaSkreech> http://commit-digest.org/issues/2007-02-18/moreinfo/634364/#visual
[06:23] <DaSkreech> hunger: ping
[06:25] <hunger> DaSkreech: pong.
[06:46] <DaSkreech> hunger: Have you seen Khalki ?
[06:56] <Riddell> good number of people editing FeistyFawn/Herd4/Kubuntu/Feedback
[06:56] <Riddell> shame about all the edit conflicts, but can't be helped
[06:58] <DaSkreech> Cool :) good things I hope?
[07:05] <DaSkreech> blast :(
[07:10] <Riddell> some of them are
[07:37] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: yes and no
[07:37] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: firefox is, yes a windows application, as mozilla used to be
[07:38] <Tonio_> but firefox exists because of linux
[07:38] <Tonio_> mozilla would have died without the linux support years ago
[07:38] <Tonio_> but what I see is that firefox on linux becomes slower and slower in the time....
[07:43] <ScottK> Don't worry.  Now that all patches have to be approved by Mozilla, I'm sure it will get faster.
[07:46] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: then ask for a Seamonkey package for *buntu
[07:47] <DaSkreech> I'm sure it probably uses like 1/2 the memory that firefox uses and is highly likely to be more responsive to the Linux majority (whatever that means)
[07:48] <DaSkreech> Where is track changes in Kword?
[07:56] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: I don't mind firefox performances :) I'm using konqueror :)
[07:56] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: I was just demonstrating that promoting free softwares on windows is, in my opinion, dangerous for linux :)
[07:57] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: Alright... What were we arguing about? :)
[07:57] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: Promoting all of them is dangerous. Select ones I think is useful
[07:58] <DaSkreech> I would argue the ones which are most differentiated from Windows versions are the best ones to promote on Windows
[07:58] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: long debate :) depending the context for me :)
[07:58] <DaSkreech>  sort of Look how good life is over here kind of thing
[07:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just didn't find anything concerning kdesktop....
[08:02] <Riddell> it's spooky
[08:04] <seele> kwwii: ping
[08:04] <seele> kwwii: have some questions about this logout dialog
[08:05] <Riddell> seele: the kde logout dialogue?  it's not made by kwwii
[08:05] <seele> Riddell: oh, he asked me to look at it (and Hobbsee)
[08:05] <seele> something about the order of the functions
[08:06] <Riddell> oh, ok
[08:06] <Riddell> carry on :)
[08:06] <seele> lol, hes not here but thanks :)
[08:09] <DaSkreech> man and I just pimped out my Logout screen too :(
[08:16] <kwwii> seele: pong
[08:17] <seele> kwwii: hey, i had some comments/questions about the logout screen you gave me last week
[08:17] <seele> but i dont know if i should direct them to you or someone else
[08:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll test opensuse tu check if that's kubuntu specific
[08:18] <kwwii> seele: well, technical stuff to someone else...I was really mainly asking about the order of the functions
[08:18] <Tonio_> hi mr kwwii ;)
[08:18] <seele> ok, do you know who is working on it?
[08:18] <kwwii> howdy Tonio_
[08:18] <kwwii> seele: StefanS is his nick, I think
[08:18] <seele> ok
[08:19] <kwwii> I am sure someone who knows exactly
[08:19] <seele> Riddell: do you know who is working on the logout dialog?
[08:23] <Riddell> seele: stefans is
[08:29] <seele> ok
[08:30] <DaSkreech> http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/02/18/one-week-with-kde-my-challenge/
[08:40] <DaSkreech> http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/02/18/one-week-with-kde-my-challenge/#comment-2897
[08:40] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Heh
[08:48] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: you can response him than exchange support in evolution is really hackish
[08:48] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: Which the first or second?
[08:48] <Tonio_> it frontends outlook web access, doesn't use the MAPI protocol
[08:48] <Tonio_> Exchange Support
[08:48] <Tonio_> this part
[08:48] <DaSkreech> ok First link then
[08:48] <Tonio_> with kontact you can use imap with exchange (need to enable that on the server side)
[08:48] <nixternal> hahahaha
[08:49] <nixternal> Beryl of Fun!!!
[08:49] <Tonio_> and for the calendar, you can connect to exchange, there is a plugin for
[08:49] <nixternal> jdong: bushism
[08:49] <jdong> nixternal: lol :) you misunderestimated the critisizingness of Planet readers.
[08:50] <DaSkreech> Shouldn't it be Komositize? Shirley?
[08:50] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:50] <jdong> Kompositized :D
[08:50] <nixternal> these Geico and caveman commercials are wearing thin on me now
[08:50] <jdong> nixternal: HeadOn -- Applied DIRECTLY to the forehead!
[08:50] <jdong> nixternal: HeadOn -- Applied DIRECTLY to the forehead!
[08:50] <jdong> ;-)
[08:51] <nixternal> omg
[08:51] <jdong> lol
[08:51] <nixternal> I love the HeadOn, shut up I hate your commercial, but I love your product
[08:54] <jdong> lol
[09:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: appart from the context menu cut/copy/paste options, what else is broken in kdesktop ?
[09:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'd like to make some tests, but I don't see anything else that don't work...
[09:32] <Riddell> Tonio_: it doesn't go right to left when you start it in a semitic langauge
[09:32] <Tonio_> hum, indeed :)
[09:32] <Tonio_> that'll help searching thanks....
[09:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm looking at debian first for patches, then the horrible kde bts ;)
[09:32] <Riddell> it doesn't load the .po file or something
[09:33] <Riddell> try stracing it to see what .po files it loads
[09:33] <Tonio_> sure
[09:33] <Riddell> would be interesting to know if it works from straight kde svn
[09:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have time to fix this, that on the top of my todo :)
[09:33] <DaSkreech> +1 krunner
[09:39] <allee> Anyone knows when Lure will will reappear?
[09:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll probably merge a few debian patches for kde, there is interesting things in there....
[09:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, building kde from svn ?
[09:49] <Tonio_> can do it but well that's a lot of work for a little test ;)
[09:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll read svn changelog first ;)
[09:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: nothing in debian and nothing in our patches that would/could create this according to me
[09:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: b5ddd000-b5dfc000 r--p 00000000 03:01 969891     /usr/share/locale-langpack/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/libc.mo
[09:57] <Tonio_> it loads en_GB here...
[09:57] <Tonio_> just ps aux | grep kdesktop and kill the process, you'll get a segfault with the output
[09:57] <Tonio_> tonio@kubuntu:~$ locate libc.mo
[09:57] <Tonio_> /usr/share/locale-langpack/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/libc.mo
[09:57] <Tonio_> /usr/share/locale-langpack/fr/LC_MESSAGES/libc.mo
[09:59] <GNUro> hello!
[10:02] <Tonio_> Riddell:
[10:02] <Tonio_> b6574000-b6575000 r--p 00000000 03:01 971275     /usr/share/locale-langpack/fr/LC_MESSAGES/kfile_png.mo
[10:02] <Tonio_> b6575000-b6576000 r--p 00000000 03:01 971575     /usr/share/locale-langpack/fr/LC_MESSAGES/libdmctl.mo
[10:02] <Tonio_> everything is loaded in french except libc.mo
[10:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's a good start to grep the sources :)
[10:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: looks like to be distro specific problem.... I was reported on #kde it works for most people
[10:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm downloading opensuse livedvd to compare....
[10:39] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: you'll love me then
[10:39] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: I just have 20Mb adsl line :)
[10:39] <DaSkreech> I have TICk
[10:41] <_StefanS_> evening
[10:41] <Tonio_> hey _StefanS_
[10:41] <_StefanS_> Toniossss
[10:42] <_StefanS_> you
[10:42] <_StefanS_> are just always online, aren't you :D
[10:42] <mhb> good evening all
[10:42] <_StefanS_> hi mhb
[10:48] <allee> libkexiv2 (required by digikam > 0.9.0) is at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4421   I've not set Maintainer to Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> as it's a new pkgs and not in main as it should be at the end.
[10:48] <allee> ^^ anyone care to have a look?
[10:50] <LaserJock> Riddell or sebas: around for a power managment/KDE question?
[10:53] <Tonio_> allee: no time today for this
[10:53] <Tonio_> allee: can you ping me tomorrow concerning this (I may forget), I'll revu this
[10:54] <allee> Tonio_: k and thx
[10:59] <_StefanS_> the other tool that works like mii-tool, what is it called ?
[10:59] <ryanakca> kindof offtopic question... but... as a school project... I'm writing a Python + PyQt area and volume calculator... and... I've never worked with PyQt or graphical interfaces before... and my teacher has only used VB / VC++ before... so... should I make the graphical interface first? or make the classes and what not first?
[10:59] <_StefanS_> for controlling nics
[11:11] <Riddell> LaserJock: hmm?
[11:12] <LaserJock> Riddell: I've had KDE (or at least when I'm in KDE)  just randomly shut off my computer
[11:13] <LaserJock> Riddell: during edgy I had issues with it randomly hibernating
[11:13] <LaserJock> Riddell: I'm wondering how I can diagnose the problem
[11:21] <LaserJock> Riddell: any ideas?
[11:21] <Riddell> I get the same thing in feisty
[11:21] <LaserJock> oh
[11:21] <Riddell> where some shortcut keys were recently added which I suspect are a bit over zelous
[11:22] <Riddell> have you only tried edgy or feisty too?
[11:22] <LaserJock> this is on feisty
[11:23] <LaserJock> I don't have an Edgy laptop anymore but I think the issue then was a seemingly random hibernation
[11:23] <LaserJock> I turned off hibernation and that seemed to stop it
[11:25] <LaserJock> Riddell: do you know what shortcut keys?
[11:25] <Riddell> depends on the laptop model
[11:26] <Riddell> do xmodmap -pke | grep XF86Standby
[11:26] <Riddell> set   S3_COMMAND = 'echo "`date`:powermanager: suspe
[11:26] <Riddell> nd to ram" >> /tmp/powermanager-debug.log'
[11:27] <Riddell> all one line
[11:27] <Riddell> in /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/powermanage.py
[11:27] <Riddell> and similar for S4_COMMAND
[11:28] <Riddell> keep xev running and see if you can work out what the match is next time it gets set off
[11:29] <LaserJock> Riddell: is there a bug open on it?
[11:38] <Riddell> LaserJock: not that I know of
[11:39] <LaserJock> Riddell: ok, so I want to watch xev for the keycode from xmodmap?
[11:40] <Riddell> I can't think of a better way I'm afraid
[11:42] <Riddell> probably good to do `while true; do date; sleep 1; done & xev` so you get the timestamp
[11:45] <LaserJock> how will I know I triggered it? watching /tmp powermanager-debug.log?
[11:47] <Riddell> set it to lock on hibernate
[11:48] <Riddell> that always gives it away