[12:23] <nysosym> damn, troy is away :-/
[12:24] <nysosym> kwwii: nice work in gdm, but why do u replace the background with the "old" style?
[12:25] <nysosym> and what do u think about that gtk style
[12:25] <nysosym> ?
[12:25] <nysosym> http://img506.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot1xb9.png
[12:50] <kwwii> nysosym: I am just checking in whatever I happen to be working on at the time
[12:50] <kwwii> nysosym: the bg will probably be quite different
[12:51] <kwwii> I have been working on gdm for a week now non-stop and it is breaking me
[12:51] <kwwii> :p
[12:51] <kwwii> I just worked on something I thought was interesting and then I looked at it again and it is sticking it's toungue out at me
[12:51] <nysosym> kwwii: sure, u have my biggest respect for that!
[12:52] <kwwii> actually inkscape just died
[12:52] <kwwii> so I lost even that messed up crap
[12:52] <nysosym> hehe :D
[12:53] <kwwii> the most important thing in doing artwork on linux is to remember to save often
[12:53] <kwwii> that says a lot of the program
[12:53] <nysosym> yep, i have although lost my work for a half hour ^^
[12:53] <kwwii> it died three times on me today
[12:54] <kwwii> and I cannot save every few minutes
[12:54] <nysosym> kwwii: yes, here is the same...
[12:54] <nysosym> but i think it isn't a linux problem ;)
[12:55] <kwwii> oh no, ai in vmware runs great
[12:55] <kwwii> :p
[12:56] <nysosym> hehe :)
[12:56] <nysosym> kwwii: why do u make your work in osx?
[12:57] <kwwii> nysosym: I haven't been
[01:00] <nysosym> ohh sry, wrong question, "why u didn't make your work in osx?" is the right :)
[01:24] <kwwii> lol
[01:24] <kwwii> and exactly the opposite ;-)
[01:24] <kwwii> I didn't do it in osx because I try to work with the tools of the system I am working on
[01:25] <kwwii> theoretically it should not effect my creative talent, only show my skill :p
[01:25] <kwwii> but logistically it is teaching me to save often
[01:25] <kwwii> strategically :-D
[01:26] <kwwii> lol
[01:26] <kwwii> here....
[01:26] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/gdm_background6A.png <-- who is tired of doing gdm?
[01:29] <kwwii> it's an ubuntu pirate sticking his tongue out
[01:30] <kwwii> troy_s: you missed the best part
[01:32] <nysosym> kwwii: wow, the gdm looks amazing! O.o
[01:33] <nysosym> hm i think it looks like a slit with a sheet of paper :)
[01:33] <kwwii> yeah, that was the idea
[01:33] <nysosym> but?
[01:34] <kwwii> 01:29 < kwwii> it's an ubuntu pirate sticking his tongue out
[01:35] <nysosym> hmm with a lot of fantasy :D
[01:35] <nysosym> but i see it in my ghost eyes in launchpad "ubuntu sticks his tongue out!" ^^
[01:36] <kwwii> yeah, it would happen
[01:36] <kwwii> troy_s: 01:26 < kwwii> http://sinecera.de/gdm_background6A.png <-- who is tired of  doing gdm?
[01:42] <nysosym> kwwii: and when u made another line like this (baad quality)
[01:42] <nysosym> http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gdmbackground6add2.png
[01:50] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/gdm_background6B.png is what I have done so far
[01:50] <kwwii> but I am just playing with ideas
[01:51] <nysosym> much better than my idea :D
[01:52] <troy_s> hrm...
[01:52] <troy_s> what is the best part?
[01:53] <troy_s> did viper show up kwwii?
[01:53] <kwwii> troy_s: nope
[01:53] <kwwii> troy_s: no viper
[01:54] <kwwii> troy_s: the funky pirate sticking his tongue out
[01:56] <troy_s> ll
[01:56] <troy_s> lol
[01:56] <kwwii> nysosym: you mean something like http://sinecera.de/gdm_background6BC.png
[01:57] <nysosym> kwwii: link doesn't work
[01:57] <troy_s> the lower bar in http://sinecera.de/gdm_background6B.png seems to be an improvement on the current bar (options / etc bar)
[01:57] <kwwii> nysosym: try it again
[01:57] <troy_s> might be nice to extend that grad a bit...
[01:57] <troy_s> kwwii -- i saw you signed up for the media center team
[01:58] <troy_s> if they are going to make a go of it
[01:58] <troy_s> perhaps we should collaborate and see what we can do
[01:58] <kwwii> troy_s: actually, that is what I thought I could get out of the whole thing
[01:58] <troy_s> given a little bit more fre reign.
[01:58] <kwwii> the lower bar
[01:58] <troy_s> lol
[01:58] <troy_s> lol
[01:58] <troy_s> yes
[01:58] <troy_s> the lower bar is certainly made more polished simply by increasing its complexity
[01:59] <nysosym> kwwii: although not found :-/
[01:59] <troy_s> the overarching presentation design of the GDM still leaves me asking questions like 'what is sabdfl trying to communicate via this presentation', as what he believes it communicates and what it _does_ are separated by the reality divide
[01:59] <troy_s> kwwii have you been in touch with the media centre guys?
[02:00] <kwwii> troy_s: nope, just subscribed to the list so far
[02:00] <kwwii> wanted to add my name to the wiki page
[02:01] <kwwii> nysosym: it works fine for me
[02:03] <kwwii> troy_s: can you confirm whether http://sinecera.de/gdm_background6BC.png works for you?
[02:03] <nysosym> kwwii: crazy, even "wget" says that  file not found
[02:03] <kwwii> lol
[02:03] <kwwii> wait
[02:03] <kwwii> remove the extra B
[02:03] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/gdm_background6C.png
[02:03] <kwwii> sorry
[02:04] <nysosym> kwwii: no problem :)
[02:04] <kwwii> it's late, time for bed soon
[02:04] <nysosym> yes i like it :)
[02:04] <troy_s> kwwii does it look like the project is going to fly?
[02:05] <nysosym> kwwii: personaly i think that bg6C looks better as bg6B :D
[02:05] <kwwii> troy_s: I've another meeting tomorrow trying to start figuring out how to work things out
[02:06] <troy_s> meeting with?
[02:06] <nysosym> kwwii: while, the shadow on the bottom has the wrong place in this version
[02:06] <troy_s> the media center guys?>
[02:08] <kwwii> troy_s: sorry, I misunderstood...no meeting on that, I heard about it from some other devs
[02:08] <kwwii> I think it will turn into something
[02:14] <kwwii> ok, time for beddy-bye
[02:14] <kwwii> night all
[02:15] <nysosym> kwwii: good night, sleep well ;)
[02:15] <kwwii> you too
[02:15] <kwwii> ;-)
[02:15] <nysosym> thx ;)
[02:15] <nysosym> see u soon my friend :)
[05:21] <darkmatter> troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=396546646&size=o <--- gahhhh!!!!! the buttons are to "milky"!!!
[05:57] <troy_s> kwwii I don't know if your reply to the desktop effects icon bug clarifies your position on it.
[05:58] <kwwii> troy_s: :p
[05:58] <troy_s> kwwii I'm serious lol
[05:58] <troy_s> Your pronoun is lacking a relationship.
[05:59] <troy_s> "it"
[05:59] <andreasn> what package installs desktop-effects?
[05:59] <troy_s> andreasn: No clue.
[06:03] <kwwii> sorry troy_s I was oversimplifying things
[06:03] <kwwii> I meant that your version looks fine :-)
[06:05] <kwwii> replied again, more clearly
[06:10] <troy_s> kwwii I couldn't care less either way, but I thought I would inform you that the pronoun was a little 'shady' ;)
[06:10] <troy_s> kwwii Any motion on the media center end?
[06:10] <kwwii> troy_s: yeah, looking back it was very unclear
[06:11] <troy_s> kwwii Or are you still dicking with the gdm?
[06:11] <kwwii> troy_s: nope, I'm on the list, eventually I'll put my name on the wiki :p
[06:11] <kwwii> yepp, still working on it
[06:11] <troy_s> kwwii: How goes the GDM and such for Kub?
[06:11] <kwwii> :-(
[06:11] <kwwii> troy_s: it'll be mainly the same as edgy
[06:11] <kwwii> I am working on updating the logo a bit
[06:12] <kwwii> that'll go on usplash, kdm and ksplash
[06:13] <troy_s> kwwii Have you seen e17 lately?
[06:13] <troy_s> _wow_
[06:13] <troy_s> It simply clobbers all the other desktop environments, and does it in a cleanly implementated fashion.
[06:13] <kwwii> troy_s: nope, the last screens I saw was months and months ago
[06:13] <troy_s> feck my spelling stinks.
[06:14] <troy_s> kwwii There are 64 bit repos now too... so trying it is quite easy.
[06:15] <kwwii> I should look into that
[06:16] <troy_s> It simply blows K and G right out of the water
[06:16] <kwwii> yeah, enlightenment was my favorite for a while
[06:16] <troy_s> the downside is that there are a few user interface elements missing for me to push it on the masses
[06:17] <troy_s> It is rather annoying that K/U have decided to look at bloody existing crap like Compiz and Beryl
[06:17] <troy_s> when you could EASILY implement ANTIALIASING, DROP SHADOWS, and FADES _without_ hardware accelleration
[06:17] <troy_s> using the xcomposite extension
[06:17] <troy_s> (or without -- as with e)
[06:18] <troy_s> Frustrating as feck
[06:18] <troy_s> once again, missing the 'bigger' picture
[06:18] <troy_s> Hell, you could use SDL and the hardware accelleration provided in almost every card (2D) would help it.
[06:18] <kwwii> yeah, I've always said the compiz and beryl are just the beginning
[06:19] <kwwii> in 3 years you probably won't even know what they are
[06:21] <troy_s> well they are crap
[06:21] <troy_s> because they are very reliant on the silly hardware
[06:21] <troy_s> if we are going to push this crap, it needs to be cross platform and very non exclusiory
[06:21] <troy_s> the basic code that keith shot in xcompmgr is very easy to figure out
[06:21] <troy_s> and very easy to implement
[06:21] <troy_s> and it runs on _every_ platform
[06:22] <troy_s> with or without 3d accellerated drivers.
[06:22] <troy_s> why can't we bloody agree that elements like _antialising_ of window edges to lower windows and drop shadows actually have a _useful_ place in interfaces?
[06:22] <kwwii> yeah, good point
[06:23] <troy_s> In fact, I have been attempting to port the xcomposite protocol to python in the pyxlib libraries
[06:23] <troy_s> to show just htat
[06:23] <troy_s> using pygame (SDL based) we could have a plethora of very simple effects that would ++greatly++ augment the end user experience
[06:23] <troy_s> without overwhelming them with garbage beryl 'exploding window' crap uselessness.
[06:24] <kwwii> hehe
[06:24] <troy_s> Drop shadows for focused window feedback, antialised windows against lower elements
[06:24] <kwwii> I *nead* my windows to burn
[06:24] <kwwii> erm, spelling
[06:24] <troy_s> two things that should have been in ubuntu four cycles ago
[06:24] <troy_s> let's see... about 20 lines of code
[06:24] <kwwii> all of that is a basic of any modern Os
[06:24] <troy_s> (maybe a bit of twiddling on the antialising)
[06:25] <troy_s> I imagine they should all do it through xcomposite for a clean implementation
[06:25] <troy_s> as it is pretty easy to do.
[06:25] <troy_s> Does kwin do it?
[06:26] <kwwii> yes, but not well
[06:26] <troy_s> well that would be a kludge
[06:26] <troy_s> because i suspect kwin isn't using xcomposite either
[06:27] <kwwii> guess not
[06:27] <troy_s> xcompmgr runs on every bloody card -- i don't know why we don't just snip the fricking leaks out and focus on those two aspects.
[06:27] <kwwii> then again, kwin is supposed to run on windows and osx too
[06:27] <troy_s> lol
[06:27] <troy_s> there's some good thinking.
[06:28] <kwwii> actually, some kde stuff is getting more use on windows
[06:28] <kwwii> amazed me
[06:29] <troy_s> uh like what?
[06:29] <kwwii> no idea...just heard lots of stuff about it
[06:30] <troy_s> lol
[06:30] <troy_s> ms will go out of their way to break anything like that... i simply can't see it being even a remote possibility.
[06:31] <troy_s> anymore than running mplayer on osx/vista as an example (the latter I am sure will be borked)
[06:31] <kwwii> oh sure, I am not saying it will ever even come close to mainstream
[06:32] <troy_s> kwwii did you have your meeting today?
[06:32] <kwwii> troy_s: nope, it was postponed till tomorrow
[06:33] <troy_s> super
[06:33] <troy_s> lol
[06:35] <kwwii> man, if they paid people to break inkscape, I would be a good candidate
[06:38] <troy_s> kwwii Inkscape is deadly stable on my end...
[06:38] <troy_s> are you reporting your issues?
[06:38] <troy_s> because that is sort of the deal with using free software remember? ;)
[06:39] <troy_s> kwwii: You see this?
[06:39] <troy_s> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/19/2212213&from=rss
[06:39] <troy_s> wow... check out the iconography on that dellideastorm website
[06:40] <troy_s> that's a slick evolution.
[06:40] <kwwii> troy_s: it is the gaussian blur stuff
[06:40] <kwwii> well known, I am afraid
[06:41] <troy_s> kwwii Yes it isn't terribly mature.  Enough to do photorealistic illustration, but when you start doing big complex uns it gets borked.
[06:41] <troy_s> but you should make sure.
[06:42] <troy_s> http://s3.crispynews.com/themes/dell_theme_dev/images/workflow_nav.png
[06:42] <troy_s> look at that icon trend
[06:42] <troy_s> interesting
[06:42] <kwwii> at small sizes you almost have to go comic
[06:42] <troy_s> small sizes are rather a product of the past.
[06:42] <kwwii> don't I wish it
[06:43] <troy_s> there simply aren't that many mainstream users who are going to rely on a small icon to
[06:43] <troy_s> _mainstream_
[06:43] <troy_s> connote communication
[06:43] <troy_s> it's all the rage in the silly interfaces that abound in G and K.
[06:43] <kwwii> I want to be able to rant to artists about how "in my day we didn't complain about 32x32!!!"
[06:43] <troy_s> The fundamental idea behind icon metaphors and useage has completely been lost
[06:44] <troy_s> Icons are only useful to an average 'sit down and use the interface' type when they are subject to miller's short term memory work.
[06:44] <troy_s> and even then, it is questionable.
[06:45] <kwwii> with new interface ideas there is not such emphasis on icons
[06:45] <troy_s> applications are so much more complex and feature laden than they were years ago that it is about time people took a step back and acknowledged that icons and menus are _very_ dated.
[06:45] <troy_s> they don't work.  culturally they are borked.  render wise they are borked (communicating in 22 pixels is just a naff exercise in self-gratification). etc.
[06:46] <troy_s> It's simply a dated byproduct of an era gone by.
[06:48] <kwwii> yepp
[06:49] <kwwii> ok, time to grill
[06:49] <kwwii> be back later
[06:51] <troy_s> kwwii
[06:51] <troy_s> before you go
[06:51] <troy_s> look at this
[06:51] <troy_s> http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/644
[06:51] <troy_s> hilarious when you get to the bottom
[06:55] <kwwii> nice
[06:55] <kwwii> ok, I'm out
[09:30] <lapo> hi there
[10:17] <nysosym> hi there :)
[10:18] <lapo> yo nysosym
[11:38] <lizardking> Hello everybody
[11:46] <lizardking> troy_s: hi troy. I was talking with Daniel Holbach to try to candidate me as Ubuntu member. I will be very glad to do that. Do you make a fanclub for my candidation?
[11:57] <troy_s> lol
[11:57] <troy_s> i suppose i could
[11:58] <troy_s> when is the meeting?
[11:58] <troy_s> doubt that my opinion matters however lizardking