[12:36] <lizardking> troy_s: Wonderful, btw I have some problem because the meeting is on the 26 Feb. It's Monday. I have basketball training at 23 pm UTC
[12:37] <lizardking> troy_s: damn! Perhpas I have just finshed the oransoda portin to oransun ;) now the theme is absolutly free yeah :D
[12:42] <troy_s> good stuff.
[02:30] <joejaxx> Hello All
[03:17] <joejaxx> anyone about/non-idle?
[03:43] <troy_s> joejaxx: go?
[03:43] <joejaxx> ?
[03:47] <joejaxx> troy_s: well i can here to see if anyone wanted to volunteer there time and help with the Fluxbuntu artwork :P
[03:47] <joejaxx> s/there/their/g
[04:01] <troy_s> what is your position in it?
[04:01] <troy_s> joe?
[04:01] <troy_s> joejaxx: ?
[04:02] <joejaxx> oh
[04:02] <joejaxx> i created the project
[04:04] <troy_s> ah cool
[04:05] <troy_s> joejaxx: How is the team going then?>
[04:05] <joejaxx> it is going well
[04:06] <joejaxx> there are about 5 people developing it
[04:06] <joejaxx> and only two people doing artwork including myself
[04:06] <troy_s> what are your ideas for it?
[04:06] <joejaxx> we are going with a leaf theme for the artwork
[04:07] <troy_s> ahh nifty... ideas in snapshots?
[04:07] <troy_s> do you have a motivating image etc?
[04:07] <joejaxx> sure hold on
[04:11] <joejaxx> i am trying to find a screenshot with without something in the way of the background
[04:11] <joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org/fluxbuntu_jaxx.png
[04:11] <joejaxx> that is the default background
[04:12] <joejaxx> there is a login theme too but it needs work
[04:12] <joejaxx> we have not even touched the usplash
[04:13] <joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org/fluxbuntu_login3.png that is the login theme
[04:13] <joejaxx> it needs work though
[04:17] <troy_s> joejaxx: Sorry, i was in the bathroom
[04:17] <troy_s> let me catch up
[04:18] <joejaxx> it is quite alright :)
[04:18] <troy_s> joejaxx: Who's photo is the wallpaper?
[04:18] <troy_s> Because if you are going to do a set, it would be nice to have custom components for all of them.
[04:18] <joejaxx> i forget the name of the photographer
[04:18] <troy_s> The leaf is a great starting point for a motif though.
[04:18] <troy_s> Are there license issues with it?>
[04:19] <joejaxx> it might now ship default though because the photographer has yet to return my email
[04:19] <troy_s> Well you should get some imagery that you know is licensed
[04:20] <joejaxx> yeah
[04:23] <joejaxx> for the usplash i was thinking of having a leaf animation
[04:24] <joejaxx> mimicking a leaf in the wind
[04:24] <joejaxx> but of course on the usplash it would just be going back and forth
[04:24] <troy_s> it would need to be endless though...
[04:25] <joejaxx> across the ends of the word fluxbuntu
[04:25] <joejaxx> troy_s: is there not a way to repeat the animation?
[04:25] <troy_s> well yes, that is what i mean
[04:25] <troy_s> it repeats endlessly
[04:25] <joejaxx> ah ok
[04:25] <troy_s> so floating from one to the other won't work
[04:26] <troy_s> it becomes problematic with a floating leaf back to forth ...
[04:26] <joejaxx> it would not?
[04:26] <troy_s> well it just will look kooky in all likelihood.
[04:26] <troy_s> you would need something a little more cyclical.
[04:26] <joejaxx> oh ok
[04:26] <troy_s> otherwise it ends up 'pacing'
[04:26] <troy_s> which looks odd.
[04:27] <joejaxx> yeah
[04:27] <joejaxx> i was going to say have it float like a sine wave :P
[04:27] <joejaxx> which is pacing lol
[04:27] <troy_s> a little more 'american beauty' ish
[04:28] <joejaxx> i never saw that film :\
[04:59] <troy_s> ack
[04:59] <troy_s> joejaxx: Go rent it.
[04:59] <troy_s> joejaxx: It is a very impressive piece of work.
[05:00] <troy_s> joejaxx: And when I chat you tomorrow, you will know _exactly_ what I mean.
[05:01] <joejaxx> ok
[05:09] <troy_s> joejaxx: I'd offer my help for Flux, but I am already quite swamped with standard life, u2, and several other elements.
[05:09] <troy_s> joejaxx: I could very well, assuming I find some time, generate a series of photos for you.
[05:09] <joejaxx> it is quite alright
[05:09] <troy_s> Then we could work out what direction you want them to head etc... it might give you some ideas for the GDM etc.
[05:09] <joejaxx> i would appreciate that
[05:10] <joejaxx> troy_s: yeah
[05:10] <troy_s> Let me see how my schedule works out over the next short bit.  Photography is a little easier than actual art and design as I don't need to go through the draw/scan/tweak cycle.
[05:10] <joejaxx> ok
[05:16] <troy_s> joejaxx: Can you handle large raw files?
[05:18] <joejaxx> i have not really tried before
[05:18] <joejaxx> is a pentium 1.6ghz with 1.25gb of ram enough?
[05:19] <troy_s> yeah should be fine... they aren't hard to manage with, just a little large on the space
[05:20] <joejaxx> oh ok
[05:21] <joejaxx> yeah it should be fine then
[05:41] <troy_s> kwwii I know you are not in right now, but check this link and let's see what we can do from the art end...
[05:41] <troy_s> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Human_Icons_for_OpenOffice
[07:21] <BHSPitMonkey> yo
[07:36] <klepas> moin
[12:47] <pmjdebruijn> lo
[12:48] <pmjdebruijn> say I could arrange for some great background photo's, how would they need to be licensed to be included in Ubuntu by default?
[12:49] <pmjdebruijn> is CreativeCommons acceptable?
[12:49] <pmjdebruijn> or does it need to be DFSG?
[12:51] <pmjdebruijn> I can get the photos at 1920x1440
[12:51] <pmjdebruijn> for example:
[12:51] <pmjdebruijn> http://www.jasperfotografeert.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=16
[12:53] <pmjdebruijn> and even if other licenses are acceptable, what license if preferable?
[12:53] <pmjdebruijn> I still need to negotiate the exact term with the author
[12:59] <elkbuntu> pmjdebruijn, GFDL would work too, afaik
[01:01] <pmjdebruijn> and how do you feel about Creative Commons?
[01:02] <pmjdebruijn> that might be the authors preference?
[01:02] <darkmatter> mornin all
[01:04] <pmjdebruijn> for example: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/
[01:04] <elkbuntu> pmjdebruijn, that one is gpl compatible, afaik, so it is fine.
[01:05] <pmjdebruijn> elkbuntu, you mean without the NonCommercial clause?
[01:06] <elkbuntu> yes. the nc would prevent someone from making a commercial deritive, which the gpl maintains ones right to do
[01:06] <elkbuntu> iirc
[01:06] <pmjdebruijn> ok
[01:12] <pmjdebruijn> I'll talk to the author
[01:12] <pmjdebruijn> but as a sidenote
[01:13] <pmjdebruijn> if I were to assemble a pack of 3-10 great background, would they stand a chance of being included in Ubuntu?
[01:13] <pmjdebruijn> I'm not talking about Ubuntu themed backgrounds, but generic ones
[01:19] <elkbuntu> pmjdebruijn, providing they are of good quality and properly packaged, im sure they'd hit at least universe
[01:27] <pmjdebruijn> that won't be a problem
[01:27] <pmjdebruijn> though I'm aiming for inclusion into the LiveCD
[01:27] <pmjdebruijn> (at least ideally)
[01:28] <elkbuntu> probably not likely, since space is a premium on it
[01:28] <elkbuntu> better to aim for the dvd
[01:28] <elkbuntu> but then, not guaranteed
[01:37] <pmjdebruijn> ofcourse
[01:41] <vdepizzol> will openoffice in feisty come with tango and human icon theme?
[01:41] <elkbuntu> vdepizzol, no clue, but im sure someone will take a look at them
[01:47] <darkmatter> hmmm... http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=396546646&size=o <--- opinions?
[01:50] <pmjdebruijn> what about it?
[01:50] <pmjdebruijn> darkmatter, using a third party font?
[01:51] <darkmatter> pmjdebruijn, yes I am... and recompiled cairo n freetype with the patches for improved rendering
[01:52] <pmjdebruijn> it's hard to compare with another font :p
[01:53] <darkmatter> lol... I was just looking for input on the theme progress...sheesh :P
[01:53] <pmjdebruijn> is it a modified industrial?
[01:55] <darkmatter> nope.... its currently just a "live mockup" using the bugfest pixmap engine... just easier to work out the look n feel that way... but soon it'll start getting cairo love as its own engine
[01:56] <darkmatter> but yeah... its kind of a "neo industrial"... that was one of the sources of inspiration
[03:21] <arnason> Any one here?
[03:27] <kwwii> I'm here
[03:34] <arnason> ok... Where should I report an anoying "bug" in the new Launchpad BETA UI ? is there an IRC channel for the Beta testers?
[03:39] <darkmatter> morning kwwii :)
[03:41] <darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=397661996&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o <--- appreciate any input you could give an the scroll troughs fella's.. they dont quite seem "right" to me
[03:52] <kwwii> arnason: not that I know of
[03:53] <kwwii> arnason: I guess reporting a bug would be the best
[03:54] <kwwii> darkmatter: wow, that looks awesome
[03:54] <arnason> kwwii: well... thanks anyway...
[03:54] <kwwii> darkmatter: perhaps if you made them shallower
[03:54] <kwwii> ie. less dark gradient on the left
[03:55] <darkmatter> kwwii, yeah... was thinking they were a bit dark
[03:56] <kwwii> one thing that i notice is the selection in the menus
[03:56] <kwwii> I think it looks too 3d-is for me
[03:58] <darkmatter> kwwii, yeah... was going to flatten, darken/saturate it slightly.. maybe indent it slightly *shrug*. save the actual "3d" for the buttons
[03:59] <darkmatter> the 3d doesnt quite fit with the perforated paper menu thingy
[03:59] <kwwii> exactly, the menus seems very light, which is nice
[05:54] <troy_s> kwwii did you get that post with the work that fellow did on the oo icons?
[06:12] <troy_s> kwwii ping me when you are in.
[06:12] <troy_s> pmjdebruijn: Just to give you a heads up, photos are pretty out of scope regarding sabdfl.
[06:13] <troy_s> He spent a good deal of money on a photo set once and was burned.  As a result, he is currently in a state of 'avoid all communication' with the design pattern (inferred)
[06:13] <pmjdebruijn> avoid all communication?
[06:13] <pmjdebruijn> why weren't the photos published?
[06:14] <pmjdebruijn> I can understand not including them
[06:14] <troy_s> google.
[06:14] <troy_s> you can find them
[06:15] <troy_s> there are a few professional photographers in our midst
[06:15] <troy_s> i don't think the issue is a lack of content
[06:15] <troy_s> ;)
[06:16] <pmjdebruijn> if it's not easily accessible people won't find it :)
[06:16] <troy_s> the point is that there are no photos for a reason
[06:16] <troy_s> it has nothing to do with the desire to have photos (aside from the functional issues regarding wallpapers of course)
[06:49] <troy_s> I think I loosely described why
[06:50] <pmjdebruijn> maybe I'm not getting the first sentence?
[06:51] <pmjdebruijn> your point being that the SAPDFL doesn't want anything in without being Ubuntu related?
[06:52] <troy_s> No
[06:53] <pmjdebruijn> ok
[06:53] <pmjdebruijn> then I definately don't understand. sorry
[06:55] <troy_s> All of art and design is entirely about communication ultimately -- much like any of the other forms of language.  When you choose a photo / image / etc., you are going to communicate in the destination audience's mind -- it is unavoidable.
[06:55] <troy_s> that said
[06:55] <troy_s> he got burned once on a poorly planned implementation
[06:56] <troy_s> and the overall result was to avoid all forms of communcation
[06:57] <troy_s> (or at least try -- and if you look at the current trend in default wallpaper / gdm, the results would bear that notion out)
[06:59] <pmjdebruijn> ah
[06:59] <pmjdebruijn> understandable, but a shame...
[07:00] <troy_s> Indeed.
[07:00] <troy_s> Of course, once you resign yourself to the fact that effective art and design is going to communicate, and choose to follow that out, you need to decide overall what you intend to communicate and to whom.
[07:00] <pmjdebruijn> I understand the problem
[07:01] <troy_s> If we start attempting to really direct art and design without considering those very real effects, the pattern is no better than where it currently is.
[07:01] <pmjdebruijn> but that requires immense knowledge of different cultures
[07:01] <pmjdebruijn> which I severely lack
[07:01] <troy_s> Yes.  That is one of the more fascinating issues regarding the nature of this situation.
[07:02] <pmjdebruijn> my point being that Microsoft and Apple both supply out of the box cool wallpapers, and thus so should Ubuntu, to be at least on par with them...
[07:03] <troy_s> Have you read Diana Fong's blog?
[07:03] <troy_s> Well the wallpapers in BOTH of those
[07:03] <troy_s> are examined and evaluated by a very well educated set of artists.
[07:03] <pmjdebruijn> she's from RedHat right?
[07:03] <troy_s> Yes... there is an interesting post regarding her wallpaper (which is amazing) and contrast.
[07:04] <troy_s> It is loosely the belief that I have for wallpapers too -- that a wallpaper isn't something like a picture.
[07:04] <pmjdebruijn> oh those are really sweet
[07:05] <troy_s> It should be more like the wallpaper in your house -- not overwhelming -- enough to smatter all over your house or -- in the case of desktop wallpaper -- stare at for long periods without becoming too gaudy.
[07:05] <pmjdebruijn> indeed
[07:06] <kwwii> troy_s: pong
[07:07] <kwwii> troy_s: can
[07:07] <kwwii> 't see the screenshot on the OO icons
[07:07] <kwwii> I'll install them later and check them out
[07:10] <troy_s> kwwii yeah... it would be a sin if we found a community contribution that greatly
[07:10] <troy_s> smoothed out human for gnome
[07:10] <troy_s> (as the long silly diatribe in that desktop effects thread explains)
[07:11] <kwwii> hehe
[07:12] <kwwii> if they are decent tango icons for OO then we should probably take 'em
[07:24] <troy_s> i think they are Human
[07:24] <troy_s> not tango
[07:24] <troy_s> as tango and human, in my eyes, are pretty far apart -- what's your thinking on it kwwii?
[07:25] <kwwii> troy_s: yes, quite different in certain aspects
[07:26] <troy_s> not to mention colour tones being possibly the most recognizable
[07:26] <troy_s> human is quite vibrant in Dave's choice of the default orange
[07:34] <troy_s> kwwii you have a screenshot of the newer gdm?
[07:36] <troy_s> kwwii?
[07:37] <kwwii> troy_s: still working on things, have one in a bit
[07:40] <kwwii> unfortunately inksacpe takes half an hour to render the bg
[07:40] <kwwii> but that is much better than the desktop wallpaper ;-)
[07:41] <troy_s> That is completely strange.
[07:41] <troy_s> Oh I found out the source of your 2 != 1.995334999 SVG issue...
[07:41] <troy_s> It is an option in Inkscape
[07:42] <troy_s> Ship me your sources and let me try a render on my box -- I am running native 64 bit and I swear I have never seen rendering times that are like that.
[07:43] <kwwii> I build it one or twice a week
[07:43] <troy_s> Yeah, but you are running 32 bit yes?
[07:43] <kwwii> yepp
[07:43] <troy_s> I would be interested to benchmark it against a 64 bit render.
[07:43] <troy_s> And see how much difference there is...
[07:44] <troy_s> We could do an 'unofficial' benchmark based on your wallpaper.
[07:47] <kwwii> yeah
[07:47] <troy_s> is your source in the wallpaper push?
[07:47] <kwwii> here is the gdm: http://sinecera.de/ubuntu_feisty_screen17.png
[07:48] <kwwii> nope, no sources yet
[07:48] <kwwii> wanted to clean things up first
[07:50] <kwwii> here it is, if you want to play with it: http://sinecera.de/drawing1a.png
[07:50] <kwwii> erm make that svg
[07:50] <troy_s> Uh that's the png though
[07:50] <troy_s> you have the svg there kwwii?
[07:50] <troy_s> I just want to test render speeds.
[07:50] <kwwii> replace the png with svg in that link
[07:51] <troy_s> and that link gives 404
[07:51] <troy_s> okie
[07:51] <troy_s> Now where are you getting those times from?
[07:51] <troy_s> Export
[07:52] <kwwii> export as bitmap
[07:52] <kwwii> page at 1600x1200
[07:52] <kwwii> I also did one 1920x1280 (or whatever the res is)
[07:52] <kwwii> if you get times much less than 2 hours let me know
[07:53] <troy_s> give me a second
[07:58] <troy_s> 2 hours?
[07:58] <troy_s> it is approximately 1/3rd done now.
[07:58] <troy_s> so far about 1:30 has expired.
[07:58] <troy_s> kwwii?
[07:58] <troy_s> now its half
[07:58] <troy_s> 1:40
[07:58] <troy_s> just over half
[07:59] <troy_s> done
[07:59] <troy_s> at 1920x1440
[07:59] <troy_s> under 2 mins.
[07:59] <troy_s> kwwii?
[08:01] <kwwii> lol
[08:01] <kwwii> I wonder why that is
[08:01] <troy_s> Ok i am now timing it
[08:01] <kwwii> which version are you using?
[08:01] <troy_s> just a recent cvs pull
[08:01] <troy_s> compiled on the 20th
[08:02] <troy_s> but i have NEVER had render times like yous
[08:02] <troy_s> yours
[08:02] <kwwii> maybe they fixed it, it was a known bug
[08:02] <troy_s> 30 seconds.
[08:02] <troy_s> elapsed...
[08:02] <troy_s> hold tight
[08:02] <troy_s> i am also rendering it in the 1920 format
[08:02] <troy_s> so my times will be a little higher.
[08:02] <troy_s> 1 minute elapsed
[08:04] <troy_s> Ok so at 1920x1280
[08:04] <troy_s> final render time is
[08:05] <troy_s> 2 minutes 48 seconds.
[08:05] <kwwii> lol
[08:05] <kwwii> a bit quicker
[08:05] <troy_s> kwwii try a recompile, and if it still happens, but as I said
[08:05] <kwwii> yeah, I will
[08:05] <troy_s> mine has always blazed
[08:05] <troy_s> even editing in standard resolution blurs/ etc
[08:05] <troy_s> has been quite manageable with quite a few layers.
[08:06] <troy_s> (although I have found I can decrease the complexity by providing custom shapes to blur as opposed to layers of objects)
[08:06] <troy_s> You need several more layers in there to make editing that thing a little more manageable.
[08:07] <troy_s> Its a bit of a pig right now... lol.
[08:07] <troy_s> kwwii -- you could probably reduce it a helluva lot by creating a custom shape for the tan blur portions and integrating them into one layer.
[08:08] <kwwii> troy_s: yepp, like I said, I hadn't cleaned it up yet :-)
[08:14] <troy_s> kwwii are you doing a recompile?
[08:15] <troy_s> even with a recompile, the differences shouldn't be 2 hours.
[08:15] <troy_s> that is bloody ridiculous.
[08:21] <kwwii> trying it out now
[08:27] <kwwii> it is much faster
[08:27] <kwwii> about 3 min
[08:27] <kwwii> much better than about 3 hours
[08:28] <troy_s> lol
[08:28] <troy_s> Yeah, that seemed a bit silly.
[08:30] <kwwii> ok, tired of gdm...doing the kubuntu logo a bit
[08:33] <kwwii> pretty soon we can call this all kwubuntu
[08:33] <kwwii> :p
[08:39] <troy_s> yeah it will blur into a big strange hybrid of gradients.
[08:39] <troy_s> lol
[10:36] <kwwii> ok, one last change for gdm tonight
[10:36] <kwwii> now I am done with it for a few days