[02:09] <Ubugtu> New bug: #48462 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Konqueror's help refers to menus removed in default Kubuntu profiles" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48462
[04:23] <Liz> quick question for anyone..
[04:23] <Liz> are the two ubuntu books i saw at a tech show today, from any of our team?
[04:23] <Liz> show = shop
[04:24] <Admiral_Chicago> Liz: link?
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> Liz: The one entitled "The Official Ubuntu Book" is.  Ubuntu Hacks may be as well - I don't remember the author.
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> (As in, Jono might be on that one - I think he was for Linux Desktop Hacks)
[04:25] <Admiral_Chicago> the Official Ubuntu Book is written by Jono Bacon, Benjamin Mako Hell, and Corey Burger
[04:25] <Liz> i didnt have a look online ..wait one
[04:25] <Liz> no, thats not the one i saw then
[04:25] <Admiral_Chicago> so that is the one to get imho
[04:25] <Liz> one was written by a french author
[04:25] <Liz> i wanted to check before i actually got one
[04:25] <Liz> besides..it was $80 NZD for the book
[04:26] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: don't forget Jonathan Jesse as well
[04:26] <nixternal> Jonathan wrote chapter 7
[04:26] <Admiral_Chicago> and others...actually.
[04:26] <Admiral_Chicago> there is some community writing in there as well
[04:26] <nixternal> it was all created pretty much from community writing of some sort
[04:27] <nixternal> I can't wait for the feisty release
[04:27] <nixternal> speaking of which...
[04:27] <Admiral_Chicago> thats true
[04:27] <LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: Benjamin Mako Hell? :-)
[04:27] <nixternal> wth?
[04:27] <nixternal> hahahahahahaha
[04:27] <tonyyarusso> lol
[04:27] <Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: oh, dvorak keyboard...you know
[04:27] <nixternal> dude, you just lost your membership!!
[04:27] <nixternal> gahahahaha
[04:27] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: quit blaming dvorak for that
[04:27] <Admiral_Chicago> oh that's way off regardless
[04:27] <Admiral_Chicago> HAHAHHa
[04:29] <nixternal> ya, like he is ever online
[04:29] <nixternal> damn, he is online
[04:29] <Admiral_Chicago> hahaha
[04:29] <nixternal> LaserJock: you watch Boston Legal?
[04:29] <LaserJock> nope
[04:30] <nixternal> oh wow, this show is hillarious
[04:30] <LaserJock> I'm guessing Mako Hell is where Bill Gates will go ;-)
[04:30] <nixternal> rofl
[04:30] <nixternal> oh wow, I just got an idea
[04:31] <Admiral_Chicago> ya that's the second time nixternal pointed out me mispelling his name.
[04:31] <Liz> http://www.techbooks.co.nz/scripts/techsearch.asp
[04:31] <nixternal> haha, that's right
[04:31] <nixternal> last time you spelled his name make
[04:31] <Liz> thomas K was the one i saw
[04:31] <Admiral_Chicago> yup
[04:32] <Liz> the official ubuntu book wasnt on display
[04:32] <Liz> tho that database says they had it
[04:32] <Liz> id rather support our guys of course
[04:33] <Liz> hence why i had to come and ask
[06:53] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3827 kubuntu/printing/C/printing.xml: kubuntu printing section - added new content
[06:56] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3828 kubuntu/printing/C/printing.xml: spell check is a neat feature :)
[09:03] <mdke> morning
[09:08] <LaserJock> hi mdke
[09:10] <mdke> hiya LaserJock
[09:15] <mdke> LaserJock: sent you a mail
[09:25] <LaserJock> mdke: very interesting
[09:30] <mdke> LaserJock: so did you discover how hard it is to make two binaries out of ubuntu-docs? Do you think we should just proceed and make a separate source package? It might be harder to get it into the repo
[09:31] <LaserJock> well, it's certainly doable
[09:31] <LaserJock> I'm just struggling for time these day :/
[09:31] <LaserJock> waaaay to many deadlines at roughly the same time
[09:32] <mdke> ya. I might be able to look into it if there is a simple guide
[09:34] <mdke> you mentioned cdbs, that sounds a bit scary
[09:34] <LaserJock> it's sort of a black box afair
[09:35] <mdke> I think we should leave the packaging as much as possible the same as before, to avoid any unforeseen issues
[09:38] <LaserJock> sure
[09:38] <mdke> ok, gtg
[09:41] <LaserJock> mdke: mostly I just need to experiment a little
[08:16] <LaserJock> mdke: still up?
[08:18] <nixternal> LaserJock: it is only 7pm there, he is to young to be in bed that early :)
[08:19] <LaserJock> but young enough to be out doing non-Ubuntu things I suppose
[08:19] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:19] <nixternal> on a Wednesday? never
[08:19] <nixternal> haha
[08:20] <LaserJock> I wonder if Christina Armstrong is ever on IRC
[08:24] <nixternal> did you get her email as well today?
[08:24] <nixternal> I seen her in #ubuntu-marketing like once I think
[08:25] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:25] <tonyyarusso> She came on for a meeting once or twice.  Nick was c?a, I think.  Maybe cja?
[08:25] <nixternal> ya, something like that
[08:30] <LaserJock> nixternal: I was going to file a bug but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say
[08:31] <mdke> LaserJock: hi
[08:32] <LaserJock> mdke: well, I was able to get an ubuntu-serverguide .deb built
[08:33] <mdke> ooh
[08:33] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: YAAAAYYY!
[08:33] <LaserJock> mdke: but I'm still trying to get all the files going to the right package
[08:33] <mdke> maybe I can help with that
[08:34] <mdke> LaserJock: are you going to commit it?
[08:35] <mdke> or maybe send me a patch or something with instructions about how I can help
[08:35] <LaserJock> mdke: well, I had a couple questions
[08:35] <LaserJock> what format do we want to ship the serverguide as?
[08:36] <LaserJock> and I'm assuming we don't want it to depend on ubuntu-docs, is that right?
[08:36] <mdke> yes
[08:36] <mdke> html
[08:36] <mdke> take the serverguide target from ubuntu/Makefile
[08:37] <LaserJock> is the HTML done that way standalone?
[08:37] <LaserJock> or does it link to common stuff?
[08:37] <mdke> yes, you need the css and img stuff of course
[08:37] <mdke> you'll see that under the serverguide target
[08:37] <LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out how to work this
[08:38] <LaserJock> because 2 .debs can't own the same files
[08:38] <mdke> so you'll need build/ubuntu/serverguide and build/ubuntu/common
[08:38] <LaserJock> so I'm not sure what to do with the common files
[08:38] <mdke> install everything in /usr/share/ubuntu-serverguide/
[08:38] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:38] <mdke> so /usr/share/ubuntu-serverguide/common and /usr/share/ubuntu-serverguide/html
[08:39] <LaserJock> exactly
[08:39] <mdke> that will work fine
[08:40] <LaserJock> now we still want the serverguide XML in ubuntu-docs?
[08:40] <mdke> no, that isn't shipped in ubuntu-docs
[08:40] <LaserJock> or is the stuff you want in ubuntu/
[08:40] <mdke> you don't need to change anything shipped in ubuntu-docs
[08:41] <LaserJock> debian/rules has a section for installing generic/serverguide/
[08:41] <LaserJock> for doc in server; do \
[08:41] <mdke> not here
[08:41] <mdke> server |= serverguide
[08:41] <LaserJock> oh, that's the server material for TBH?
[08:42] <mdke> that should be left
[08:42] <mdke> nixternal: what's all that weird kubuntu/tmplibs about?
[08:42] <LaserJock> I see, I was equating the two, my bad
[08:44] <LaserJock> mdke: in the install though I see:
[08:44] <LaserJock> generic/serverguide/sample/* usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/sample
[08:44] <mdke> stuff left over I guess
[08:44] <mdke> I'll deal with that
[08:45] <mdke> nixternal: I think I see what you're trying to do, you want to change the html.stylesheet parameter. But you shouldn't create a whole new separate folder with new files for that, just pass the parameter on the command in the Makefile. See the command under the "index" target in ubuntu/Makefile
[08:48] <nixternal> mdke: ya, that was fine, however calling the images can't be changed like that
[08:48] <nixternal> that is why I did it like that temporarily
[08:49] <mdke> nixternal: you are using different images?
[08:49] <nixternal> same images, but in the xslt template they are called ../../common and for the index.xml I need them as common/
[08:50] <nixternal> s/are called/are called as/
[08:50] <mdke> no, adjusting the path to the css works fine for that
[08:50] <mdke> because the images are called by the css
[08:50] <nixternal> well for Kubuntu docs none of the images are called rom css
[08:50] <nixternal> s/rom/from
[08:51] <mdke> how are they called?
[08:51] <nixternal> kde-default nor kubuntu-default call the images. they are hardcoded in one of the .xsl files in kubuntu/libs
[08:51] <mdke> eww
[08:51] <nixternal> why? I don't know, I guess they have been that way since day one
[08:51] <nixternal> I will look at changing that though
[08:52] <LaserJock> hmm, so it seems ESR wants to become a MOTU
[08:52] <mdke> haha
[08:53] <LaserJock> I'm not sure how that will be
[08:53] <mdke> nixternal: surely there must be a better way to do that than creating new files. Maybe just one separate xsl file will work
[08:53] <LaserJock> I might have to watch what I say a bit more
[08:54] <nixternal> mdke: the way the 3 xsl templates are tied in requires duplication of the 3
[08:54] <nixternal> I will fix that though
[08:54] <nixternal> I need to get ready for school, so in between classes tonight I will look into it
[08:55] <LaserJock> man, this is going to make me nervous
[08:56] <mdke> nixternal: you can customise xsl like you can with css files
[08:59] <LaserJock> wow, ESR was a Red Hat guy for 13 years?
[09:00] <LaserJock> mdke: I've got a seminar to go to, shouldn't be more than 45 min. and then I should have a package for you shortly
[09:07] <mdke> LaserJock: awesome, I'll take a look later, thx
[09:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #86837 in kubuntu-docs (main) "[Feisty]  Links incorrect on Konqi main page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86837
[10:07] <LaserJock> mdke: around?
[10:07] <mdke> LaserJock: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[10:07] <LaserJock> lol
[10:09] <LaserJock> mdke: so ESR want's to make a man page browser system
[10:44] <nixternal> LaserJock: he is late, KHelpCenter has done that for more than 10 years now :)
[10:44] <LaserJock> nixternal: well, it's a bit different
[10:45] <LaserJock> he actually wants to put all documentation in one place
[10:45] <LaserJock> it's almost like our TBH stuff
[10:45] <nixternal> ahhh
[10:45] <LaserJock> he want's make a large serchable database of documentation
[10:46] <nixternal> tell him to get on it then
[10:46] <LaserJock> so he is currently grabbing *every* man page in Ubuntu
[10:46] <nixternal> just don't blog about Ubuntu is all I ask
[10:46] <LaserJock> and he's going to turn it into docbook
[10:46] <nixternal> he was good in 99 when he wrote the revenge or whatever of hackers
[10:46] <nixternal> since then he has been a virus
[10:47] <nixternal> alright, class time. I will bbiab to work on the xsl and css for Kubuntu docs, and now that bug jjesse created
[10:48] <LaserJock> nixternal: well, he might be coming over here shortly so be nice ;-)
[11:00] <esr> Anybody home?
[11:01] <LaserJock> hi!
[11:02] <LaserJock> funny seeing you here ;-)
[11:11] <esr> LserJock: I've made a launchpad account.  Should I just write up a spec, or are there political steps best taken first?
[11:12] <LaserJock> esr: well, it doesn't really hurt to make the spec
[11:12] <LaserJock> esr: but if it was me I'd send an email to the doc mailing list to sort of throw it around a bit
[11:13] <esr> I will heed your advice.
[11:13] <esr> I've already subscribed.
[11:14] <LaserJock> a spec, in and of itself, doesn't mean a whole lot so there's not really any harm in creating one
[11:14] <LaserJock> but I'm sure the team will have questions/comments/suggestions so I kinda like to braindump it to the list first
[11:14] <LaserJock> usually because I don't want to make an idiot of myself
[11:16] <esr> That's a good reason:-).
[11:17] <LaserJock> although making an idiot of myself on a mailing list does tend to be a bit more permanent than doing it on the wiki
[11:17] <mdke> LaserJock: hi
[11:17] <LaserJock> mdke!
[11:17] <LaserJock> I got it
[11:17] <mdke> nice work
[11:17] <LaserJock> mdke: what's the best way to rename a file in svn?
[11:17] <mdke> svn mv?
[11:18] <LaserJock> doh
[11:18] <LaserJock> maybe I've been using CVS too much lately, I thought it was more complicated
[11:19] <mdke> esr: I think you should continue talking to the gnome guys about help systems, they are working on a new project which probably overlaps with what I've read above
[11:20] <mdke> in terms of desktop help systems, we'll be following GNOME in Ubuntu
[11:21] <mdke> there's definitely room for system wide specifications, but there is existing talking upstream about it so that's the place to work
[11:26] <esr> mdke:  I hear you.  What I'm actually hoping to do is sell this concept to the Linux Foundation, spin up a distribution-independent documentation infrastructure group fuunded by them, and then flog the resulting software to all distros.
[11:27] <mdke> ah.
[11:27] <esr> That having been said, there are things about Ubunti that suggest it would be the right place to do the first implementation.
[11:27] <mdke> well, dig around for a spec on it, it exists
[11:27] <esr> Project Mallard?  Googling now...
[11:28] <mdke> there is some free desktop stuff on it too, I think
[11:28] <mdke> talk to DonS and shaunm about it in the gnome-docs team
[11:29] <esr> Oh, crap.  I'm reading the Project Mallard spec...
[11:29] <LaserJock> mdke: just a sec
[11:29] <LaserJock> mdke: should I just commit my changes?
[11:29] <mdke> LaserJock: if they work, why not :)
[11:29] <LaserJock> mdke: make sure to look them over
[11:30] <esr> ...and it looks like a recipe for a mess to me.  First, they want to write a new markup language...
[11:30] <LaserJock> I'm a little unsure of dependencies for the serverguide
[11:30] <esr> and we don't *need* a new markup language!  We've got too many of the crusty buggers as it is!
[11:31] <mdke> esr: plenty of discussion on the list about that. I myself questioned it and got some good responses
[11:31] <mdke> LaserJock: will do
[11:31] <mdke> night
[12:02] <CIA-20> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3829 debian/ (11 files):
[12:02] <CIA-20> Ubuntu Documentation: * reworked packaging to make a standalone server guide .deb
[12:02] <CIA-20> Ubuntu Documentation: * updated long descriptions of the packages now that the server guide
[12:02] <CIA-20> Ubuntu Documentation:  and packaging guide aren't shipped
[12:03] <LaserJock> \o/