[06:25] <elkbuntu> @schedule sydney
[06:25] <elkbuntu> @schedual sydney
[06:25] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 23 Feb 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 08:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 26 Feb 04:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 10:00: Community Council | 28 Feb 07:00: Technical Board | 01 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu
[06:25] <elkbuntu> i fail :(
[07:17] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[07:17] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 22 Feb 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 15:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 11:00: LoCo Team | 26 Feb 17:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 14:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 14:00: Edubuntu
[09:16] <dholbach> good morning
[09:40] <highvoltage> good morning dholbach
[09:41] <dholbach> hiya highvoltage
[11:26] <asac> @schedule berlin
[11:26] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu
[03:46] <freeflying> @schedule shanghai
[03:46] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 23 Feb 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 05:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 26 Feb 01:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 07:00: Community Council | 28 Feb 04:00: Technical Board | 01 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu
[04:02] <mvo_> @schedule berlin
[04:02] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu
[04:02] <zul> @schedule montreal
[04:02] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 12:00: LoCo Team | 26 Feb 18:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu
[04:47] <pitti> hi
[04:48] <bdmurray> hello
[04:49] <dholbach> hiya
[04:52] <cjwatson> ogra: let's put that agenda item first then, or you can just follow up to Henrik by mail
[04:52] <ogra> oki
[04:52] <cjwatson> ogra: it's a straight question, so if it can be given a straight answer, mail's fine
[04:52] <heno> agreed
[04:53] <ogra> i'm all for including WinFOSS, but kdeedu isnt moved yet and i know LaserJock is still submitting MIRs ... apart from thyt language packas go first ...
[04:53] <heno> just need to know approximately how much disk space I have to play with (or not)
[04:53] <ogra> so it depends on the final free space
[04:53] <ogra> what the comon need of WinFOSS ?
[04:53] <ogra> *common
[04:53] <heno> hm, and when do we know that?
[04:54] <heno> from 15 to 100MB
[04:54] <heno> depending on whether you want openoffice
[04:54] <Riddell> need is giving out CDs to people who are unlikely to change operating system, edubuntu CDs tend to be more targeted than ubuntu/kubuntu CDs though
[04:55] <ogra> heno, 100M *with* OO.o ?
[04:55] <heno> right
[04:55] <ogra> heh, i will have 100M for you then ... i was expecting 200 and upwards
[04:55] <ogra> 100 is totally fine
[04:56] <ogra> Riddell, we talk about the add-on CD ... which works on *all* *buntus
[04:56] <heno> OK, that will compliment the other CDs well, as they don't have OOo ATM
[04:56] <heno> I'll also look out for some educational stuff
[04:56] <Mithrandir> pong
[04:56] <ogra> heno, that'd be ubercool !
[04:57] <heno> we can have a fixed set of OOo, Firefox and TB say, and other stuff that can optionally give way to language packs
[04:57] <ogra> dholbach, thnks
[04:57] <heno> it's easier to remove stuff than to create content in a hurry :)
[04:57] <ogra> heno, right ... sounds fine, lets do it :)
[04:58] <heno> \o/
[04:58] <asac> hi all
[04:58] <heno> ok, that's one item settled *before* the meeting
[04:58] <heno> any others ? :)
[04:59] <ogra> i dont mind dropping one or the other exotic language :) its not called the language-cd ;) but i want as many as i can on it, to give benefit to everyone without badwith
[04:59] <Riddell> heno: are you going to redo the kubuntu winfoss sometime (removing scribus and kdepim)?
[04:59] <ogra> *bandwith
[04:59] <mdz> morning
[04:59] <pitti> ogra: width :)
[04:59] <pitti> hey mdz
[04:59] <heno> ogra: just the be clear, the 100 MB quoted is real CD space, not livefs space
[04:59] <heno> Riddell: mostly done, just need to upload
[05:00] <cjwatson> ogra: is this including WinFOSS on the first or the second CD?
[05:00] <ogra> pitti, bah ... can't type today :)
[05:00] <ogra> cjwatson, add-on
[05:00] <heno> can do that after the meeting <- Riddell
[05:00] <cjwatson> ogra: ok, small cdimage change probably required for that, let me know
[05:00] <ogra> cjwatson, ok, will do ...
[05:00] <Riddell> heno: cool
[05:01] <iwj> Oops, wrong server.
[05:01] <mdz> ok, let's get started
[05:01] <mdz> everyone here?
[05:02] <asac> me :)
[05:02] <_kyle> ack.
[05:02] <tkamppeter> hi
[05:02] <rtg> ack
[05:02] <cjwatson> here
[05:02] <bdmurray> here
[05:02] <pkl_> here
[05:02] <heno> here
[05:02] <mdz> seb128,doko,BenC,kwwii: ping
[05:03] <pitti> * seb128 as well
[05:03] <BenC> mdz: pwong
[05:03] <seb128> mdz: he, I replied just after dholbach :p
[05:03] <dholbach> do we know about sfllaw?
[05:03] <seb128> s/he/heh
[05:03] <mdz> seb128: yes, and I missed it due to an xchat bug!
[05:04] <seb128> iz GTK bog? :p
[05:04] <BenC> mdz: Is that the one where it makes random lines invisible?
[05:04] <doko> pong
[05:04] <mdz> dholbach: sfllaw is not in attendance today
[05:04] <mdz> BenC: in this case it omitted the '*'
[05:05] <mdz> cjwatson: heard from Ken?
[05:05] <dholbach> i talked to him today and pinged him
[05:05] <cjwatson> I see dholbach has beaten me to it
[05:05] <cjwatson> he was active on #ubuntu-devel not that long ago
[05:05] <dholbach> excusez-moi :)
[05:05] <mdz> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/Screenshot-FreeNode:%20%23ubuntu-meeting.png
[05:05] <mdz> seb128: when there are multiple /me's in succession, it omits the '*' from the succeeding ones
[05:06] <seb128> mdz: right, it does that here as well
[05:06] <mdz> so when I scan for people I miss them
[05:06] <mdz> ok, let's get started
[05:06] <mdz> agenda is:
[05:06] <mdz> (pitti) compiz in main or universe, and integration into live system
[05:06] <seb128> that's probably the "don't repeat the name when several line come from the same person" which gets confused
[05:06] <mdz> (pitti) packaging of beryl, get it into universe
[05:06] <mdz> (heno) Does Edubuntu need WinFOSS?
[05:06] <mdz> (mvo) More people in the SRU verification-needed -> verification-done team? (the step after a fix was uploaded to -proposed, but before it can go to -updates).
[05:06] <mdz> (bdmurray) How to deal with beryl bugs
[05:06] <mdz> (bdmurray) Bug 83726 and similars - power saving mode in Live CD
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 83726 in xorg "[feisty]  X Display in Power-Saving mode on Startup, LiveCD only" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83726
[05:07] <mdz> any changes, additions or deletions?
[05:07] <mdz> seb128: yes
[05:07] <highvoltage> hehe. mdz is in #ubuntu-women
[05:07] <heno> the edubuntu winfoss question has been answered
[05:07] <ogra> right ...
[05:07] <heno> (with as yes)
[05:08] <mdz> ok, will delete
[05:08] <heno> *a
[05:08] <mdz> pitti: your floor then
[05:08] <pitti> so, as I wrote on distro-team, I'm not really happy with the state of compiz in main
[05:08] <pitti> with my QA/MIR hat on
[05:09] <pitti> so I talked to sabdfl about our goals for feisty
[05:09] <seb128> I talked with pitti about it and I think even if compiz has bug we should get it on the CD, because many users look for the cool effect and we should make easy for them to get it
[05:09] <pitti> as you saw on the IRC quote, he would even be fine with having beryl/compiz in universe
[05:09] <pitti> right
[05:09] <BenC> I can confirm that compiz in feisty is very unstable, even compared to compiz-freedesktop(gandalfn) from edgy
[05:09] <seb128> those users are rather likely to go to some other distro if we don't make that easy
[05:09] <mdz> seb128: yes, in fact that was a requirement from sabdfl
[05:09] <pitti> so I see two options:
[05:10] <pitti> we put it in main and on the CD and live with the brokenness
[05:10] <mdz> pitti: he may have said that, but he contradicted himself in doing so, probably without knowing
[05:10] <seb128> BenC: weird, the package from feisty is made by gandalfn
[05:10] <pitti> or we leave it in universe and change desktop-effects to install it if people want to enable it
[05:10] <BenC> it's broken for me, whereas his packages on my edgy box are very stable
[05:10] <seb128> and the new version is not known to unstable
[05:10] <mdz> he doesn't realize that it needs to be in main in order to be activated on the live CD
[05:10] <BenC> cube breaks workspaces
[05:10] <BenC> windows go missing
[05:10] <seb128> BenC: do you have an ATI card?
[05:10] <pitti> so I'd like to know what we should do
[05:10] <BenC> Intel 945
[05:10] <seb128> speaking about compiz packaging
[05:11] <seb128> I just merge sync 0.3.6 with Debian today
[05:11] <seb128> and synced compiz-extra from there
[05:11] <mdz> pitti: it's important that users be able to switch it on in the default install and on the live CD
[05:11] <mdz> it doesn't have to be bug-free
[05:11] <pitti> mdz: alright, so this question is settled then
[05:11] <seb128> there is a gnome-compiz-manager to source NEW which is guy to configure compiz, I would appreciate some review help on it, it ships some xfree source files and there is probably cleanup required
[05:11] <mdz> pitti: we can display a warning that it's experimental software
[05:11] <BenC> seb128: I use that a lot
[05:12] <pitti> mdz: it's not really a question of 'bug free', but rather 'is it usable at all', so I'd really add a disclaimer somewhere
[05:12] <mdz> in fact I think desktop-effects already may
[05:12] <mdz> many people are using it on Ubuntu anyway, so it is usable for some
[05:12] <pitti> there's no disclaimer yet, but at least it has a nice handling of 'do you wnat to keep these settings'
[05:12] <mdz> I believe Mithrandir is using it
[05:12] <kwwii> sorry for being late
[05:12] <Mithrandir> mdz: I was for a while, then got bored of not having enough workspaces and switched back to openbox.
[05:12] <seb128> pitti: it works fine with intel cards
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: right, intel cards are basically the only platform where it works
[05:13] <seb128> for ATI users we need "Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true"", does anybody knows if we could add that option by default to xorg.conf or if that's a bad idea?
[05:13] <pitti> seb128: I experimented with that and it seriously degraded performance, as well as introducing strange screen effects
[05:13] <seb128> and EXA?
[05:13] <mdz> seb128: I don't, but I can tell you who can answer that question (email me)
[05:14] <seb128> mdz: ok, will do
[05:14] <pitti> seb128: also, this should go into the non-free driver configuration tool that Keybuk wrote
[05:14] <seb128> pitti: well, the option is for the free driver
[05:14] <seb128> fglrx doesn't work for compiz
[05:14] <pitti> seb128: ah, right
[05:14] <pitti> seb128: well, but you can forget the free driver anyway, it's unusably slow
[05:14] <seb128> it's not for me
[05:14] <pitti> alright, but no need to reiterate
[05:14] <seb128> I use the radeon driver and it works really fine on my desktop
[05:15] <ogra> i'd like to point out that i'd lik to have a possibility to disable these options if we write them to xorg.conf
[05:15] <pitti> I'm fine with mdz's word
[05:15] <mdz> ok
[05:15] <mdz> nsext
[05:15] <mdz> (pitti) packaging of beryl, get it into universe
[05:16] <doko> seb128: the FireGL ATI cards don't support it at all
[05:16] <ogra> ltsp already had some probs were flash stopped working on certain cards because of the AIGLX stuff which you can only disable through hacking xorg.conf ...
[05:16] <pitti> right, someone needs to do that
[05:16] <seb128> beryl has been packaged
[05:16] <pitti> do we have anyone who is interested?
[05:16] <ogra> which is no option in ltsp, it needs to be preseedable
[05:16] <seb128> and rejected for license problems
[05:16] <pitti> right, the compiler stuff needs to be sorted out
[05:16] <seb128> upstream is going to fix them for 0.2
[05:16] <Mithrandir> as well as the pixmaps.
[05:16] <cjwatson> pixmaps we could tolerate
[05:17] <doko> does it use icc?
[05:17] <Mithrandir> doko: no.
[05:17] <mdz> seb128: when is 0.2?
[05:17] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: they're technically just large char * structs in a C file.  I'm not sure that's ok, wrt GPL.
[05:18] <Mithrandir> (it's almost certainly not the preferred form of modification)
[05:18] <seb128> mdz: no idea, I've read some mails but I don't follow beryl, I work on the compiz packages and that's enough for me
[05:18] <seb128> (and beryl is an evil fork)
[05:18] <cjwatson> ok, if it's linked in then that could be problematic
[05:18] <cjwatson> although I think that particular interpretation is probably excessively strict, given that the PFoM is probably an image file and pixmaps basically are that
[05:19] <mdz> I don't think it's necessary to provide both compiz and beryl
[05:19] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: there's no way to load it into an image editor.  It's not an xpm.
[05:19] <iwj> You mean xpm's ?  That's just a compilable image format.
[05:19] <iwj> Mithrandir: Oh, that's silly.
[05:19] <mdz> we will only put one of them in the default install, and there it seems compiz is a better choice
[05:19] <Mithrandir> iwj: you can't load xpms into opengl textures without some kind of converter, and it's an opengl texture.
[05:19] <mdz> for beryl we should accept it into universe
[05:20] <cjwatson> it's probably a silly image format, but surely the translation is absolutely trivial?
[05:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: but wait for somebody to package it, or have somebody package it?
[05:20] <cjwatson> I sort of see your point, it just doesn't seem all that interesting
[05:20] <mdz> Mithrandir: it's already packaged aiui
[05:21] <mdz> there are packages out there
[05:21] <pitti> so why cant' we put them into multiverse for now?
[05:21] <Mithrandir> pitti: because it's undistributable.  Sourceless GPL-ed files.
[05:21] <pitti> doesn't make much of a difference even for desktop-effects integration (should we do that)
[05:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, right
[05:22] <Mithrandir> "This file is autogenerated from $file; This file is under the GPL" ; no sign of $file.
[05:22] <pitti> ok, so let's just ditch it for now
[05:22] <Mithrandir> oh, and it'd have to go to multiverse anyway, because there is no free compiler for the shaders.
[05:22] <mdz> ok, we don't believe it to be redistributable now, so we can't include it yet
[05:22] <siretart> there are beryl packages sitting in debian/NEW atm
[05:22] <mdz> but someone should monitor that situation and ensure that it gets into universe when it's fixed
[05:23] <cjwatson> monitor> and push if necessary
[05:23] <mdz> siretart: since you're watching it, would you be willing to see that it gets into universe as well?
[05:23] <gnomefreak> beryls already in universe only thing that isnt in feisty is beryl-core
[05:24] <pitti> gnomefreak: only beryl-manager
[05:24] <gnomefreak> oh
[05:24] <gnomefreak> ah thought i saw more
[05:24] <pitti> and it's not "really" there because it's uninstallable
[05:25] <pitti> ok, I don't think we need further discussion right now
[05:25] <siretart> mdz: I'll monitor the situation in debian and arrange things (syncs, etc) as soon as they're ready over there
[05:25] <mdz> siretart: great, thank you
[05:25] <Mithrandir> siretart: please keep me up-to-date on what's going on too, please?
[05:25] <mdz> (mvo) More people in the SRU verification-needed -> verification-done team? (the step after a fix was uploaded to -proposed, but before it can go to -updates).
[05:26] <mvo> it seems that currently only simon is doing this verification. if he is sick or on vacation then the process is stuck. I would like to suggest bdmurray as a backup (if he agrees of course)
[05:26] <siretart> no idea how long it'll take, though. the new queue seems to be growing lately, and I'll probably not be able to work actively on beryl packaging.
[05:26] <siretart> Mithrandir: will do
[05:26] <mdz> mvo: why yes, I think we do need help there; thank you for volunteering! ;-)
[05:26] <dholbach>  /query mvo
[05:26] <pitti> http://tinyurl.com/2yx8aj, btw
[05:26] <mdz> mvo: bdmurray is occupied at the moment
[05:27] <pitti> i. e. lots of stuff pending ATM
[05:27] <cjwatson> I already asked bdmurray about this and he preferred not to for the moment
[05:27] <mdz> yes, simon has dropped the ball on this and we need someone else to pick it up
[05:27] <bdmurray> I think I might be able to now
[05:28] <mvo> mdz: I'm ok with doing it as long as I'm not the only one in charge
[05:28] <mdz> it's also important that we do SRUs *only* for serious bugs
[05:28] <pitti> right
[05:28] <pitti> unfortunately edgy has many of those :(
[05:28] <mvo> but that filtering happend before the verfication-needed -> done step
[05:28] <pitti> however, the list is not as bad as it seems, some of them affect universe which have their own team
[05:29] <cjwatson> mvo: we haven't been as strict in the past
[05:29] <mvo> I wouldn't want to do my own SRUs for example
[05:29] <mdz> mvo: it would be good if you could help with it, since you (alone?) are able to verify that the upgrade test succeeded
[05:30] <mdz> which should be a prerequisite for any other verification
[05:30] <mvo> mdz: as I said, I'm fine iwth it. its just that I do not want to verify my own SRUs. I mean, I did that before the upload already :)
[05:31] <mdz> mvo: perhaps bdmurray would be your backup for the ones you produce yourself
[05:31] <mvo> mdz: sounds good
[05:31] <mdz> bdmurray,cjwatson: ?
[05:31] <mvo> mdz: scott (as my manager) may need to agree too
[05:31] <bdmurray> mdz: that works for me
[05:31] <pitti> mdz: if Simon is officially not doing them any more, do you want me to update the process on the wiki page?
[05:31] <cjwatson> I'm ok with that if Brian's happy
[05:32] <cjwatson> yes, Simon is officially not doing them any more
[05:32] <mvo> pitti: I will follow your example and do SRU days
[05:32] <mdz> pitti: yes, it should use a team instead
[05:32] <pitti> we can probably just eliminate that step (mailing Simon), looking by tags does fine
[05:32] <mdz> mvo: please review this proposal with Scott when he is well and confirm
[05:32] <mvo> mdz: I will. thanks
[05:32] <mdz> pitti: sure, if that works for mvo and brian, that's fine
[05:32] <pitti> ACTION: mvo and pitti to discuss new SRU process, update wiki
[05:33] <pitti> ^ and brian
[05:33] <mdz> ok, sounds good
[05:33] <mdz> (bdmurray) How to deal with beryl bugs
[05:33] <mdz> bdmurray: ->same as for other universe bugs :-)
[05:34] <pitti> mdz: but its not in universe
[05:34] <mdz> pitti: but it will be
[05:34] <mdz> is the problem that beryl bugs are being filed in launchpad before the package is there?
[05:34] <cjwatson> ok, bugs on software not in the archive should be rejected
[05:34] <mdz> agreed
[05:34] <pitti> bdmurray: they are assigned to random packages ATM?
[05:34] <cjwatson> i.e. stuff we don'tt ship
[05:34] <mdz> I thought this was about the future
[05:35] <bdmurray> pitti: some end up w/o no package at all
[05:35] <cjwatson> AFAIK it's about bugs that are there right now
[05:35] <cjwatson> when Brian last asked me about this I hadn't realised that beryl-manager wasn't the whole thing
[05:35] <mdz> as Colin says, bugs for software not in the archive have to be rejected
[05:35] <bdmurray> there seem to be packages in lp for beryl-core and beryl-manager
[05:36] <mdz> it's a bit awkward in this case because we *want* it in the archive, but nonetheless we have to wait.  we can't even ask whether they're using the proper version when we don't provide one yet
[05:36] <cjwatson> bdmurray: since that isn't all of beryl, we need to find out from the submitter where their beryl packages come from
[05:36] <bdmurray> so accept beryl-manager bugs, we said it is in the archive earlier, but not beryl-core bugs?
[05:36] <seb128> I'm rejected beryl bugs quite often with a comment saying to contact people shipping the packages they are using
[05:36] <cjwatson> if it's regarding those pieces of beryl that we ship, then we shouldn't reject the bugs, but otherwise they have to go
[05:37] <pitti> since beryl-manager is uninstallable ATM anyway, should we just remove the binaries for now maybe?
[05:37] <pitti> and re-add them when it actually becomes useful?
[05:38] <seb128> looks like a good idea
[05:38] <mdz> bdmurray: assuming they're using our packages, yes
[05:38] <mdz> bdmurray: but that seems unlikely given that it isn't installable :-)
[05:39] <bdmurray> okay, so we'll point them at the beryl project bug tracker and reject them then.
[05:39] <mdz> ok
[05:39] <mdz> (bdmurray) Bug 83726 and similars - power saving mode in Live CD
[05:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 83726 in xorg "[feisty]  X Display in Power-Saving mode on Startup, LiveCD only" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83726
[05:39] <bdmurray> I've seen quite a few bugs similar to that and wanted to know if anyone had any ideas about it.
[05:41] <mdz> bdmurray: do I understand correctly that the problem is only when booting the live CD?  booting the installed system with the same packages works fine?
[05:41] <mdz> if that's not clear, we should confirm that
[05:41] <bdmurray> mdz: checking, I think I read someone had the problem after install too
[05:42] <bdmurray> 85930 indicats it happening after install
[05:42] <bdmurray> 86592 has a possible resolution
[05:43] <mdz> bdmurray: do you know when the problem began? is it a regression in feisty?  in a particular milestone?
[05:43] <mdz> bug 86592
[05:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86592 in xorg "Live CD Installer causes screen to turn off when X starts" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86592
[05:44] <bdmurray> I see someone indicating it happened for them on Herd 3
[05:44] <bdmurray> I don't recall seeing it for Herd 2
[05:45] <mdz> bdmurray: if it's a regression, the best approach is to find out where it regressed. that will help isolate the bug
[05:46] <bdmurray> mdz: okay
[05:46] <mdz> bdmurray: I /msg'd you an upstream contact who might be able to help
[05:47] <mdz> bdmurray: does this give you enough to move forward with the bug?
[05:47] <bdmurray> mdz: yes, I believe so
[05:48] <mdz> bdmurray: thanks for bringing it up.  I think reviewing outstanding serious bugs where we're stuck is a good idea for this meeting
[05:48] <mdz> especially where you come upon something which is not maintained directly in Ubuntu
[05:48] <mdz> that's the end of the discussion agenda
[05:49] <mdz> only one outstanding action from the previous meeting: iwj to write up summary of experiences debugging udev
[05:49] <mdz> iwj: ?
[05:50] <iwj> I still haven't done that; I've been doing autopkgtest all this last week.
[05:50] <iwj> ... which has gone well.
[05:50] <Riddell> mdz: are you able to look over bug 84717 sometime and give your approval?  requested by pitti
[05:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84717 in update-manager "SRU: updates necessary for Kubuntu Upgrade Tool in Edgy" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84717
[05:51] <mdz> Riddell: ->release team
[05:51] <pitti> Riddell: heh, I had the sentence prepared as well :)
[05:51] <Riddell> mdz: ok
[05:51] <mdz> Mithrandir: I need for you to write/update the documentation for freeze exceptions
[05:51] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ^^ :)
[05:51] <mdz> Mithrandir: it's at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[05:52] <pitti> mdz: this would be an outright rejection for a normal SRU; if we do this, then I'd like an official commitment for us that we want to break SRU policy to achieve this goal
[05:52] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, it's partially blocked on getting a ubuntu-release mailing list.  I'll document the rest of it and tell people to mail me for the time being.
[05:52] <mdz> ACTION: Tollef to update FreezeExceptionProcess, particularly to send requests to the release team
[05:53] <heno> can community members subscribe to that (planned) list?
[05:53] <mdz> iwj: is it likely that the udev documentation will get done in the next week?  iirc it was already carried over once
[05:53] <iwj> mdz: Yes.
[05:53] <Mithrandir> heno: that's the idea, yes.
[05:53] <iwj> I didn't want to get too distracted this week since I was making good progress.
[05:53] <heno> cool
[05:53] <Mithrandir> heno: I see no point in keeping it secret at least.
[05:54] <mdz> ok
[05:54] <mdz> any other business?
[05:54] <cjwatson> I think it should still be primarily a contact point for the release team rather than a discussion list, though
[05:54] <heno> Mithrandir: it will be an announce-only list?
[05:54] <cjwatson> based on experience from debian-release, I recommend making that clear in the charter
[05:54] <mdz> I agree with cjwatson
[05:55] <mdz> developer discussion stays on -devel
[05:55] <mdz> -release should reach only the release team for contact purposes
[05:55] <Mithrandir> heno: what Colin says; it's a contact list and not a discussion list.
[05:55] <heno> so perhaps it should be moderated even for subscribers
[05:56] <Mithrandir> I'll probably end up mailing various reports to it as I write the bits to generate them
[05:56] <mdz> heno: no one will be subscribed to it except the release team
[05:56] <Riddell> pitti: I'm feeling the love.  did you say you had updates from michael hoffman for apport-qt?
[05:56] <mdz> it's just a mail expander
[05:56] <heno> People might want to subscribe to be notified about the release process but not to get random contact mails
[05:56] <pitti> Riddell: not new ones, they have all been merged into trunk
[05:56] <pitti> Riddell: if anything still looks weird, please file bugs
[05:56] <mdz> heno: only things intended for the release team only should be sent to that address
[05:56] <heno> so perhaps we need a testing-announce list
[05:56] <mdz> if it's of general interest, it should go elsewhere
[05:57] <mdz> I've suggested that we need a list for automated checks
[05:57] <pitti> Riddell: the behaviour under Gnome isn't very representative due to some bugs in the theme/gtk-qt bridge stuff
[05:57] <mdz> we have several sources of automated checks alerady
[05:57] <Mithrandir> should we take the list discussion after the meeting?  I don't see it being useful for the whole team?
[05:57] <heno> right
[05:57] <cjwatson> agreed
[05:57] <mdz> michael's upgrade tester, ian's package tester, the installation testing done in montreal
[05:58] <mdz> they should all go to one place which anyone can monitor
[05:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok
[05:58] <mdz> last call for other business
[05:58] <mdz> ok, adjourned
[05:58] <mdz> thanks, all
[05:58] <seb128> thank you
[05:58] <dholbach> thanks
[05:58] <mdz> cjwatson: would you post the action items?
[05:58] <pitti> thanks guys
[05:58] <asac> thanks
[05:58] <BenC> thanks!
[05:58] <bdmurray> thanks
[05:59] <cjwatson> mdz: yes
[05:59] <cjwatson> only three this week
[05:59] <mvo> thanks
[06:04] <Toadstool> @schedule Los_Angeles
[06:04] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Feb 02:00: MOTU Council | 24 Feb 13:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 09:00: LoCo Team | 26 Feb 15:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 12:00: Technical Board
[06:05] <fernando> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[06:05] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Feb 07:00: MOTU Council | 24 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 14:00: LoCo Team | 26 Feb 20:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 17:00: Technical Board
[08:37] <brottman> isn't there supposed to be a dev team meeting today?
[08:37] <gnomefreak> already happened
[08:37] <gnomefreak> 3 hours ago or so
[08:38] <brottman> thanks :)