| h4writer | do I need to take a scrnshot? | 12:09 |
|---|---|---|
| troy_s | if you are offering something up for comparison it seems to make logical sense | 12:09 |
| troy_s | otherwise you can't exactly flip back and forth visually easy enough... | 12:09 |
| troy_s | just a thought, not that my opinion matters. i would suggest it will make it easier for kwwii to evaluate against what he is currently working with though. | 12:10 |
| h4writer | ok | 12:10 |
| kwwii | h4writer: if the content text was a bit smaller, I could see using such a light grey, as the text would stand out due to it's size | 12:10 |
| h4writer | I'm opening gimp | 12:10 |
| kwwii | why not oragne? | 12:10 |
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| h4writer | that's the old one: http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oldhelpcentrefq1.png | 12:12 |
| h4writer | (I'm not that good in layout, but I think it's an improvement. If you want I want change some things, but like I said I'm not that good (especially with details) | 12:14 |
| h4writer | So you think the left bar isn't good? | 12:14 |
| kwwii | I love the left bar - it looks amazing | 12:15 |
| kwwii | ;-) | 12:15 |
| h4writer | okey | 12:16 |
| kwwii | I was only talking about the color of the title text | 12:16 |
| kwwii | and/or size of it | 12:16 |
| kwwii | but rather than make the text bigger, make the other text a bit smaller | 12:16 |
| h4writer | (just ripped it from gnome-control-panel:p) | 12:16 |
| kwwii | very nice, much better than edgy | 12:17 |
| kwwii | another choice would be to make the grey color a bit darker | 12:17 |
| h4writer | I think it's that fresh, because the grey is light | 12:18 |
| troy_s | seems that grey is very unhumanish no? | 12:18 |
| troy_s | kwwii? | 12:18 |
| kwwii | I agree with that totally, but i think it still needs to stand out somehow, however slightly to show that it is a title | 12:18 |
| troy_s | are you talking about the font colour or the pill? | 12:19 |
| kwwii | troy_s: I think that there is a lot of very human incfluences in that screen | 12:19 |
| troy_s | kwwii it also, and i know you have a long list of crap to deal with | 12:19 |
| h4writer | maybe with some icons before it? | 12:19 |
| troy_s | that the 'orange' should be locked into place hue wise | 12:19 |
| h4writer | like a list | 12:19 |
| kwwii | I am talking about the grey color of the text at the top right | 12:19 |
| troy_s | probably snag it from the folder icon and say 'this is ubuntu orange' (not logo) | 12:19 |
| troy_s | so that the hues are the same | 12:20 |
| troy_s | across all uses. | 12:20 |
| kwwii | troy_s: if we had a decent palette ready it would not be a problem | 12:26 |
| troy_s | kwwii ;) | 12:26 |
| troy_s | no shit | 12:26 |
| troy_s | kwwii the problem is that sabdfl has taken this backasswards appraoch | 12:27 |
| troy_s | now it is retrofitting poorly combined colours with | 12:27 |
| troy_s | a 'larger' palette | 12:27 |
| troy_s | the orange for example, simply breaks it. | 12:27 |
| kwwii | oh, I think he knows much less about this than you think | 12:27 |
| kwwii | it is more of a feeling for him, I think | 12:27 |
| troy_s | the tan and the orange are like... oblique | 12:27 |
| troy_s | they _cannot_ be reconciled | 12:27 |
| troy_s | they are leagues off on value at the very least | 12:27 |
| troy_s | hue wise i suppose we could kludge around localize the tan, localize the orange and distribute accordingly | 12:28 |
| troy_s | but _something_ has to give somewhere. | 12:28 |
| kwwii | sure | 12:28 |
| kwwii | that is very apparent | 12:28 |
| troy_s | take the degrees off of tan hue from orange and distribute around using a quad, or a triplet, or... | 12:28 |
| troy_s | but even still... the value sucks | 12:28 |
| kwwii | my biggest worry is that I, in my haste, create something off-base | 12:29 |
| troy_s | i would need to experiment with the thing as I haven't actually looked at where the bloody orange falls on the wheel | 12:29 |
| troy_s | you know what? anything off base, if it follows an bloody architecture, is leagues better than where it sits. | 12:29 |
| kwwii | once feisty artwork is out the door we can work on this | 12:29 |
| troy_s | even if it is questionable in execution. | 12:29 |
| kwwii | yeah, but creating something only to change it right away is stupid too | 12:30 |
| troy_s | my thinking is that we should consider what is the more important hue | 12:30 |
| troy_s | the tan or the orange | 12:30 |
| troy_s | and anchor from that | 12:30 |
| troy_s | kwwii yep | 12:30 |
| kwwii | and people wasting time on testing whether it works is worth money | 12:30 |
| troy_s | kwwii ultimately though, the main problem is that there is no pattern. it is very throw shit at wall and see if it sticks, which with _zero_ architecture, is a complete subjective and bikeshed bound waste of time. | 12:31 |
| h4writer | I thought there was a color scheme? | 12:31 |
| troy_s | no | 12:31 |
| troy_s | there _was_ one for many ages ago, but a braindead imp could realize it is being followed exactly 0% of the time | 12:31 |
| kwwii | troy_s: yepp, true as well | 12:31 |
| troy_s | kwwii if you manage to win that argument, it is deadly easy for us to say | 12:32 |
| troy_s | A) wallpaper should be middle grey in tone (18% value) based on hues x/y/z/a/b | 12:32 |
| kwwii | even if the rule is "break the rule" at least do it in an organized and reproducable way :-) | 12:32 |
| troy_s | b) icons say are more saturated... but still use x/y/z/a/b | 12:32 |
| kwwii | such palettes are living documents | 12:33 |
| troy_s | the nice thing about having those architectural elements in place is that it lets you say 'that is borked out of the gate' | 12:33 |
| kwwii | but without a good base you loose track | 12:33 |
| troy_s | palettes should be locked. | 12:33 |
| h4writer | (i'm looking to all this text as a n00b:p I didn't know there was such a 'theory' behind it | 12:33 |
| troy_s | that is the whole point of them... they | 12:33 |
| kwwii | troy_s: a base palette is locked | 12:34 |
| troy_s | are meant to be a specific 'subset' to communicate elements. if you round them out to include every hue, they are no longer a palette. | 12:34 |
| kwwii | and an extended one is certainly needed | 12:34 |
| troy_s | the idea is to create 'grass', for example, with the restricted colours... | 12:34 |
| kwwii | as many companies have per product cycle | 12:34 |
| troy_s | that creates the mood. | 12:34 |
| troy_s | which is why good brand palettizing has some lovely work -- you see stylized sky motifs that are green or ..., stylized flowers that are xxx, etc. | 12:35 |
| troy_s | all the while you know that the colours dictate the consistency. | 12:35 |
| troy_s | which is again, one of tangos weaknesses | 12:35 |
| troy_s | etc. | 12:35 |
| troy_s | the palette is too broad and effectively loses its consistency | 12:36 |
| troy_s | h4writer: yes, there are a good deal of solid books on colour theory (without getting into the rather questionable notions of colour psychology) | 12:36 |
| troy_s | colour psychology for all intents and purposes is a bunk concept. they are all culturally learned responses. | 12:36 |
| h4writer | nice | 12:37 |
| troy_s | h4writer: If you plan on reading some, start with some of the more mainstream oil painter style versions. they are pretty practical in approach. | 12:38 |
| h4writer | but still I think the one I give is better than the probably correct edgy help centre. | 12:38 |
| h4writer | (my intention is not to not follow the rules | 12:39 |
| h4writer | is just I don't know them yet) | 12:39 |
| kwwii | troy_s: if tango was smart, the would create a real palette and use the current one as an icon palette base only | 12:39 |
| kwwii | but anyway, enough about tango | 12:39 |
| h4writer | I will definitely start reading it | 12:39 |
| troy_s | kwwii I think that when you implement a limited palette across a good number of installations, they look wonderful. | 12:39 |
| troy_s | look at some of metisse's work for example | 12:40 |
| troy_s | you simply see the 'set' when you look at different paintings | 12:40 |
| troy_s | because the palette is identical. | 12:40 |
| kwwii | better yet, I have worked with branding stuff from Siemens, Fujitsu, IBM, Novell, etc | 12:40 |
| kwwii | it is amazing how they think of everything | 12:41 |
| kwwii | in one solid package | 12:41 |
| troy_s | absolutely! | 12:41 |
| troy_s | that's the whole idea | 12:41 |
| troy_s | seeing the forest | 12:41 |
| troy_s | not the trees | 12:41 |
| kwwii | small, definable, usable | 12:41 |
| troy_s | a good friend of mine started up the drawing board | 12:41 |
| troy_s | (huge hip hop design firm that did many many albums in the hip hop heyday) | 12:41 |
| troy_s | and he was a huge palette stickler | 12:42 |
| troy_s | it works regardless of the colours you choose... just stick to the set. | 12:42 |
| troy_s | (it also forces a certain creativity because you can't choose 'red' if you don't have it.) | 12:42 |
| kwwii | yepp, definitely | 12:42 |
| troy_s | the result can be quite stunning in the hands of a gifted artist. | 12:42 |
| kwwii | it defines a style | 12:42 |
| troy_s | and the internal consistency is invaluable | 12:42 |
| kwwii | and you have to be a good artist to create works in a given style | 12:43 |
| kwwii | but without such info it would be impossible | 12:43 |
| troy_s | well that is where we get a massive boost from having such a palette | 12:43 |
| kwwii | aka what happened to crystal | 12:43 |
| troy_s | if our palette is say, 5-6 primary hues | 12:43 |
| troy_s | you get a certain degree of 'style' simply by implementing the palette | 12:43 |
| kwwii | the thing is, 4 are predefined | 12:43 |
| kwwii | yellow, orange, red and black | 12:43 |
| troy_s | well yes. | 12:44 |
| troy_s | but those aren't a palette thus far | 12:44 |
| kwwii | and you have to include black as it is a major element of the logo | 12:44 |
| troy_s | those are more like 'coke red' | 12:44 |
| troy_s | the palette from what i can see | 12:44 |
| troy_s | is loosely rooted in either the tan | 12:44 |
| troy_s | or the orange | 12:44 |
| troy_s | (not the logo orange) | 12:44 |
| troy_s | the orange in the icons | 12:44 |
| kwwii | I would want 12 or so colors and 3 or 4 variations of each to be able to decide on a final selection | 12:44 |
| troy_s | one could argue that with that monochrome wallpaper the tan is probably the more important. | 12:44 |
| troy_s | 12 hues is pretty much a full spectrum | 12:45 |
| troy_s | rgb/cmy | 12:45 |
| troy_s | that's six and covers a good deal | 12:45 |
| kwwii | well, one would settle on about 8 I guess | 12:45 |
| troy_s | lol | 12:45 |
| kwwii | but looking at that many would be good | 12:45 |
| kwwii | 6 at the least | 12:46 |
| troy_s | it would be nice to have a very finite set | 12:46 |
| kwwii | very least | 12:46 |
| troy_s | at the very least to steer the consistency | 12:46 |
| kwwii | 4 main colors, and a few others | 12:46 |
| troy_s | (values aside) | 12:46 |
| troy_s | yes | 12:46 |
| kwwii | at least two tans | 12:46 |
| troy_s | % bases of the whole | 12:46 |
| kwwii | a reddish and an orange version | 12:46 |
| troy_s | most designer selections offer you a triplet | 12:46 |
| kwwii | having a yellowish on would not be bad either | 12:46 |
| kwwii | sure, and then triplets of those :-) | 12:47 |
| kwwii | anyway | 12:47 |
| troy_s | it would be nice to have one. | 12:47 |
| kwwii | time for bed | 12:47 |
| troy_s | i think we can agree on that. | 12:47 |
| troy_s | nicht kiwi | 12:47 |
| troy_s | i must mop | 12:47 |
| troy_s | lol | 12:47 |
| h4writer | kwwii, sorry to interrupt, but I'm going to my bed. Now what's the state of the help centre. Will you look for it, so it makes feisty. Or do I still need to do some things? | 12:48 |
| kwwii | I, like a dipshit, left the mercedes door open last night and the battery was dead, which means I have to get up early after it is done charging and put it back in the car so my wife can go to work | 12:48 |
| kwwii | h4writer: will you be online tomorrow? | 12:48 |
| h4writer | nop, got a party | 12:48 |
| kwwii | h4writer: it is too late for the next herd anyway | 12:48 |
| kwwii | today was the deadline | 12:49 |
| h4writer | saterday I will be online | 12:49 |
| kwwii | h4writer: so if we put it in soon we might still make it through | 12:49 |
| kwwii | h4writer: I'd like to check out how to make it look best though | 12:49 |
| h4writer | ok | 12:49 |
| kwwii | h4writer: which time zone are you in? | 12:49 |
| h4writer | +1 | 12:50 |
| h4writer | europe, Brussel | 12:50 |
| kwwii | excellent, I am in germany | 12:50 |
| h4writer | nice, so that will not be a problem | 12:50 |
| kwwii | we will definitely talk about this more, ok? | 12:50 |
| h4writer | ok | 12:50 |
| h4writer | I see you saterday | 12:50 |
| h4writer | alright? | 12:50 |
| kwwii | great, see you then! | 12:50 |
| h4writer | bye | 12:50 |
| kwwii | bye | 12:51 |
| kwwii | night troy_s, all | 12:51 |
| kwwii | troy_s: btw. I got a response from the media center people | 12:51 |
| kwwii | telling me that not much is done yet | 12:51 |
| kwwii | look at the webpage | 12:51 |
| kwwii | , etc | 12:51 |
| kwwii | that seems to be about it | 12:51 |
| troy_s | kwwii well we | 12:52 |
| kwwii | the guy who is/was doing it had a hardware problem or such | 12:52 |
| troy_s | should maybe offer a brainstorm? | 12:52 |
| kwwii | definitely | 12:52 |
| troy_s | how about you email me a set of your ideas | 12:52 |
| troy_s | and we can see if we can round something out | 12:52 |
| troy_s | into at least a solid starting point | 12:52 |
| troy_s | see if it flies. | 12:52 |
| kwwii | how about we talk with them first to decide exactly what they need? | 12:52 |
| troy_s | sure... see what their expectations are. | 12:53 |
| kwwii | I can imagine that they have different needs than the normal ubuntu distro | 12:53 |
| troy_s | that said, it might be nice to bring _something_ to the table. | 12:53 |
| kwwii | see what limitations there are | 12:53 |
| troy_s | (hopefully they are going with myth) | 12:53 |
| troy_s | seems like a no brainer | 12:53 |
| kwwii | get all the info first | 12:53 |
| troy_s | i already see the language issue | 12:53 |
| kwwii | and then walk blindly into the forest | 12:53 |
| kwwii | :p | 12:53 |
| troy_s | hopefully that can be negotiated. | 12:54 |
| kwwii | yeah | 12:54 |
| troy_s | well yeah... if you have been in contact | 12:54 |
| troy_s | see what you can glean | 12:54 |
| troy_s | i am ok for meetings over the next week | 12:54 |
| troy_s | then i start another show | 12:54 |
| kwwii | I'll respond tomorrow | 12:54 |
| kwwii | for tonight I am done | 12:54 |
| troy_s | aight | 12:54 |
| troy_s | chat soon | 12:54 |
| kwwii | see you soon | 12:54 |
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| nysosym | i will go to bed now, my screen burns in my eyes ^^ | 01:28 |
| nysosym | have a nice my friends :) | 01:29 |
| nysosym | hope to see u soon | 01:29 |
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| h4writer | ping troy_s | 08:40 |
| h4writer | question is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-palette.png good as color scheme? | 08:40 |
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| troy_s | how come there are so many folks in here? | 04:35 |
| pmjdebruijn | so many? | 04:36 |
| coz_ | lol | 04:36 |
| troy_s | yes... 21 is more than usual. | 04:36 |
| troy_s | greets coz_, missed you there. | 04:36 |
| coz_ | troy_s, greetings in return ") | 04:36 |
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| coz_ | well this channel gets more and more chatty everyday ") | 04:41 |
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| coz_ | afternoon | 07:29 |
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| coz_ | question... i woul dlike to use keybindings to open/close the cd tray particularly close it after about 6 econds...I can make the keybinding in gome to open it but the keybinding toclose itisinmetacity and with beryl running that doesn't work | 07:30 |
| coz_ | wrong channel | 07:30 |
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| === klepas [n=klepas@ppp167-251-133.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] | ||
| === msikma [n=Msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| === darkmagister [n=federico@213-140-6-127.ip.fastwebnet.it] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] | ||
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