[12:09] do I need to take a scrnshot? [12:09] if you are offering something up for comparison it seems to make logical sense [12:09] otherwise you can't exactly flip back and forth visually easy enough... [12:10] just a thought, not that my opinion matters. i would suggest it will make it easier for kwwii to evaluate against what he is currently working with though. [12:10] ok [12:10] h4writer: if the content text was a bit smaller, I could see using such a light grey, as the text would stand out due to it's size [12:10] I'm opening gimp [12:10] why not oragne? === ryanakca [n=ryan@ubuntu/member/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:12] that's the old one: http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oldhelpcentrefq1.png [12:14] (I'm not that good in layout, but I think it's an improvement. If you want I want change some things, but like I said I'm not that good (especially with details) [12:14] So you think the left bar isn't good? [12:15] I love the left bar - it looks amazing [12:15] ;-) [12:16] okey [12:16] I was only talking about the color of the title text [12:16] and/or size of it [12:16] but rather than make the text bigger, make the other text a bit smaller [12:16] (just ripped it from gnome-control-panel:p) [12:17] very nice, much better than edgy [12:17] another choice would be to make the grey color a bit darker [12:18] I think it's that fresh, because the grey is light [12:18] seems that grey is very unhumanish no? [12:18] kwwii? [12:18] I agree with that totally, but i think it still needs to stand out somehow, however slightly to show that it is a title [12:19] are you talking about the font colour or the pill? [12:19] troy_s: I think that there is a lot of very human incfluences in that screen [12:19] kwwii it also, and i know you have a long list of crap to deal with [12:19] maybe with some icons before it? [12:19] that the 'orange' should be locked into place hue wise [12:19] like a list [12:19] I am talking about the grey color of the text at the top right [12:19] probably snag it from the folder icon and say 'this is ubuntu orange' (not logo) [12:20] so that the hues are the same [12:20] across all uses. [12:26] troy_s: if we had a decent palette ready it would not be a problem [12:26] kwwii ;) [12:26] no shit [12:27] kwwii the problem is that sabdfl has taken this backasswards appraoch [12:27] now it is retrofitting poorly combined colours with [12:27] a 'larger' palette [12:27] the orange for example, simply breaks it. [12:27] oh, I think he knows much less about this than you think [12:27] it is more of a feeling for him, I think [12:27] the tan and the orange are like... oblique [12:27] they _cannot_ be reconciled [12:27] they are leagues off on value at the very least [12:28] hue wise i suppose we could kludge around localize the tan, localize the orange and distribute accordingly [12:28] but _something_ has to give somewhere. [12:28] sure [12:28] that is very apparent [12:28] take the degrees off of tan hue from orange and distribute around using a quad, or a triplet, or... [12:28] but even still... the value sucks [12:29] my biggest worry is that I, in my haste, create something off-base [12:29] i would need to experiment with the thing as I haven't actually looked at where the bloody orange falls on the wheel [12:29] you know what? anything off base, if it follows an bloody architecture, is leagues better than where it sits. [12:29] once feisty artwork is out the door we can work on this [12:29] even if it is questionable in execution. [12:30] yeah, but creating something only to change it right away is stupid too [12:30] my thinking is that we should consider what is the more important hue [12:30] the tan or the orange [12:30] and anchor from that [12:30] kwwii yep [12:30] and people wasting time on testing whether it works is worth money [12:31] kwwii ultimately though, the main problem is that there is no pattern. it is very throw shit at wall and see if it sticks, which with _zero_ architecture, is a complete subjective and bikeshed bound waste of time. [12:31] I thought there was a color scheme? [12:31] no [12:31] there _was_ one for many ages ago, but a braindead imp could realize it is being followed exactly 0% of the time [12:31] troy_s: yepp, true as well [12:32] kwwii if you manage to win that argument, it is deadly easy for us to say [12:32] A) wallpaper should be middle grey in tone (18% value) based on hues x/y/z/a/b [12:32] even if the rule is "break the rule" at least do it in an organized and reproducable way :-) [12:32] b) icons say are more saturated... but still use x/y/z/a/b [12:33] such palettes are living documents [12:33] the nice thing about having those architectural elements in place is that it lets you say 'that is borked out of the gate' [12:33] but without a good base you loose track [12:33] palettes should be locked. [12:33] (i'm looking to all this text as a n00b:p I didn't know there was such a 'theory' behind it [12:33] that is the whole point of them... they [12:34] troy_s: a base palette is locked [12:34] are meant to be a specific 'subset' to communicate elements. if you round them out to include every hue, they are no longer a palette. [12:34] and an extended one is certainly needed [12:34] the idea is to create 'grass', for example, with the restricted colours... [12:34] as many companies have per product cycle [12:34] that creates the mood. [12:35] which is why good brand palettizing has some lovely work -- you see stylized sky motifs that are green or ..., stylized flowers that are xxx, etc. [12:35] all the while you know that the colours dictate the consistency. [12:35] which is again, one of tangos weaknesses [12:35] etc. [12:36] the palette is too broad and effectively loses its consistency [12:36] h4writer: yes, there are a good deal of solid books on colour theory (without getting into the rather questionable notions of colour psychology) [12:36] colour psychology for all intents and purposes is a bunk concept. they are all culturally learned responses. [12:37] nice [12:38] h4writer: If you plan on reading some, start with some of the more mainstream oil painter style versions. they are pretty practical in approach. [12:38] but still I think the one I give is better than the probably correct edgy help centre. [12:39] (my intention is not to not follow the rules [12:39] is just I don't know them yet) [12:39] troy_s: if tango was smart, the would create a real palette and use the current one as an icon palette base only [12:39] but anyway, enough about tango [12:39] I will definitely start reading it [12:39] kwwii I think that when you implement a limited palette across a good number of installations, they look wonderful. [12:40] look at some of metisse's work for example [12:40] you simply see the 'set' when you look at different paintings [12:40] because the palette is identical. [12:40] better yet, I have worked with branding stuff from Siemens, Fujitsu, IBM, Novell, etc [12:41] it is amazing how they think of everything [12:41] in one solid package [12:41] absolutely! [12:41] that's the whole idea [12:41] seeing the forest [12:41] not the trees [12:41] small, definable, usable [12:41] a good friend of mine started up the drawing board [12:41] (huge hip hop design firm that did many many albums in the hip hop heyday) [12:42] and he was a huge palette stickler [12:42] it works regardless of the colours you choose... just stick to the set. [12:42] (it also forces a certain creativity because you can't choose 'red' if you don't have it.) [12:42] yepp, definitely [12:42] the result can be quite stunning in the hands of a gifted artist. [12:42] it defines a style [12:42] and the internal consistency is invaluable [12:43] and you have to be a good artist to create works in a given style [12:43] but without such info it would be impossible [12:43] well that is where we get a massive boost from having such a palette [12:43] aka what happened to crystal [12:43] if our palette is say, 5-6 primary hues [12:43] you get a certain degree of 'style' simply by implementing the palette [12:43] the thing is, 4 are predefined [12:43] yellow, orange, red and black [12:44] well yes. [12:44] but those aren't a palette thus far [12:44] and you have to include black as it is a major element of the logo [12:44] those are more like 'coke red' [12:44] the palette from what i can see [12:44] is loosely rooted in either the tan [12:44] or the orange [12:44] (not the logo orange) [12:44] the orange in the icons [12:44] I would want 12 or so colors and 3 or 4 variations of each to be able to decide on a final selection [12:44] one could argue that with that monochrome wallpaper the tan is probably the more important. [12:45] 12 hues is pretty much a full spectrum [12:45] rgb/cmy [12:45] that's six and covers a good deal [12:45] well, one would settle on about 8 I guess [12:45] lol [12:45] but looking at that many would be good [12:46] 6 at the least [12:46] it would be nice to have a very finite set [12:46] very least [12:46] at the very least to steer the consistency [12:46] 4 main colors, and a few others [12:46] (values aside) [12:46] yes [12:46] at least two tans [12:46] % bases of the whole [12:46] a reddish and an orange version [12:46] most designer selections offer you a triplet [12:46] having a yellowish on would not be bad either [12:47] sure, and then triplets of those :-) [12:47] anyway [12:47] it would be nice to have one. [12:47] time for bed [12:47] i think we can agree on that. [12:47] nicht kiwi [12:47] i must mop [12:47] lol [12:48] kwwii, sorry to interrupt, but I'm going to my bed. Now what's the state of the help centre. Will you look for it, so it makes feisty. Or do I still need to do some things? [12:48] I, like a dipshit, left the mercedes door open last night and the battery was dead, which means I have to get up early after it is done charging and put it back in the car so my wife can go to work [12:48] h4writer: will you be online tomorrow? [12:48] nop, got a party [12:48] h4writer: it is too late for the next herd anyway [12:49] today was the deadline [12:49] saterday I will be online [12:49] h4writer: so if we put it in soon we might still make it through [12:49] h4writer: I'd like to check out how to make it look best though [12:49] ok [12:49] h4writer: which time zone are you in? [12:50] +1 [12:50] europe, Brussel [12:50] excellent, I am in germany [12:50] nice, so that will not be a problem [12:50] we will definitely talk about this more, ok? [12:50] ok [12:50] I see you saterday [12:50] alright? [12:50] great, see you then! [12:50] bye [12:51] bye [12:51] night troy_s, all [12:51] troy_s: btw. I got a response from the media center people [12:51] telling me that not much is done yet [12:51] look at the webpage [12:51] , etc [12:51] that seems to be about it [12:52] kwwii well we [12:52] the guy who is/was doing it had a hardware problem or such [12:52] should maybe offer a brainstorm? [12:52] definitely [12:52] how about you email me a set of your ideas [12:52] and we can see if we can round something out [12:52] into at least a solid starting point [12:52] see if it flies. [12:52] how about we talk with them first to decide exactly what they need? [12:53] sure... see what their expectations are. [12:53] I can imagine that they have different needs than the normal ubuntu distro [12:53] that said, it might be nice to bring _something_ to the table. [12:53] see what limitations there are [12:53] (hopefully they are going with myth) [12:53] seems like a no brainer [12:53] get all the info first [12:53] i already see the language issue [12:53] and then walk blindly into the forest [12:53] :p [12:54] hopefully that can be negotiated. [12:54] yeah [12:54] well yeah... if you have been in contact [12:54] see what you can glean [12:54] i am ok for meetings over the next week [12:54] then i start another show [12:54] I'll respond tomorrow [12:54] for tonight I am done [12:54] aight [12:54] chat soon [12:54] see you soon === sittisal [n=sittisal@host226-101-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:28] i will go to bed now, my screen burns in my eyes ^^ [01:29] have a nice my friends :) [01:29] hope to see u soon === sittisal [n=sittisal@host226-101-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Kopete] === BHSPitLappy [n=steve-o@adsl-67-64-115-205.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitLappy_ [n=steve-o@adsl-66-139-197-152.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitMonkey_ [n=stephen@adsl-66-139-197-152.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitLappy_ is now known as BHSPitLappy === BHSPitMonkey_ is now known as BHSPitMonkey === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === AndyFitz [i=AndyFitz@nat/redhat/x-3b1691704ba086e1] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [i=AndyFitz@nat/redhat/x-3b1691704ba086e1] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PseudoPlacebo [n=Placebo@user-0ceveav.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@60-242-104-119.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=Msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === h4writer [n=h4writer@d51A48402.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:40] ping troy_s [08:40] question is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-palette.png good as color scheme? === pmjdebruijn [n=pmjdebru@dhcp-23.office.unilogicnetworks.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow__ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === yharrow [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow_ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h101n1fls31o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === |Element| [n=Element@122.8.49.33] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h101n1fls31o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === |Element [n=Element@122.8.49.33] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === |Element is now known as |Element| === o_s [n=vahti@xdsl-205-64.nblnetworks.fi] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === o_s is now known as o_s78789 === vahti [n=vahti@xdsl-205-64.nblnetworks.fi] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === o_s78789 is now known as o_s4353 === |Element| [n=Element@122.8.49.33] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === |Element| [n=Element@221.4.137.132] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === |Element [n=Element@221.4.137.132] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === |Element is now known as |Element| === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === HorD [n=HorD@unaffiliated/hord] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:35] how come there are so many folks in here? [04:36] so many? [04:36] lol [04:36] yes... 21 is more than usual. [04:36] greets coz_, missed you there. [04:36] troy_s, greetings in return ") === HorD is now known as Silencio_Ruidoso [04:41] well this channel gets more and more chatty everyday ") === Silencio_Ruidoso is now known as HorD === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === HorD is away: Ausente por ahora. (www.ubuntu-lat.org) === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow__ [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === HorD [n=HorD@unaffiliated/hord] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["www.ubuntu-lat.org"] === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === HorD [n=HorD@unaffiliated/hord] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === HorD is back. (www.ubuntu-lat.org) === HorD [n=HorD@unaffiliated/hord] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["www.ubuntu-lat.org"] === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:29] afternoon === reuna [n=ffr54e@xdsl-205-64.nblnetworks.fi] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:30] question... i woul dlike to use keybindings to open/close the cd tray particularly close it after about 6 econds...I can make the keybinding in gome to open it but the keybinding toclose itisinmetacity and with beryl running that doesn't work [07:30] wrong channel === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === andreasn_ [n=andreas@h101n1fls31o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === |Element [n=Element@221.4.137.132] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=Msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmagister [n=federico@213-140-6-127.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn_ is now known as andreasn === klepas [n=klepas@ppp167-251-133.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === msikma [n=Msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmagister [n=federico@213-140-6-127.ip.fastwebnet.it] has left #ubuntu-artwork []