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mptGooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!02:00
LaserJockhi mpt 02:07
ajmitchgood afternoon mpt02:10
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UbugtuNew bug: #87471 in launchpad "Grey text is unnecessarily difficult to read" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8747103:15
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sistpotyhow can I make the member techboard an administrator of the team motu?03:48
ajmitchthey should be owner04:01
ajmitchso I think dholbach should change that04:02
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ajmitchoh my04:02
sistpotyat least I wasn't stupid enough to rip myself of admin privileges yet *g*04:03
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UbugtuNew bug: #87483 in launchpad "Need "Register a product" action button images" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8748304:55
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sabdflmorning mpt08:29
FujitsuHi sabdfl.08:30
sabdflhey Fujitsu08:30
sabdflFujitsu: liking the beta?08:31
Fujitsusabdfl: It's soooo much better in a lot of ways :) Still needs some improvements, obviously.08:31
sabdflyup, but i think we will start pushing it harder in a week or two once the initial cleanup is done08:31
FujitsuSounds good.08:33
FujitsuIt should be less of a maze, with the application tabs, for example.08:33
sabdflagreed, it has a much more consistent and understandable navigation system08:36
FujitsuSome of it (parts of the navigation within distribution source packages, for example) is still pretty terrible.08:37
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sabdflyes, agreed08:49
FujitsuIt's one of the most complex mazes I've found in such a web application, unfortunately.08:50
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mpthi sabdfl 08:58
sabdflmorning mpt09:01
sabdflgood day?09:01
mptSMTP problems, but apart from that, yes09:02
Fujitsumpt: Are there any improvements in line for the distro source package stuff on LP? Or should I complain to somebody else?09:03
sabdflmpt: will merge your branch into mine shortly09:03
sabdflthere is a test failure i'm fixing, then i'll send it off to PQM too09:04
sabdflthanks for the update09:04
sabdfllet's speak again monday morning my time, and we'll identify more snags09:04
sabdflmpt: do you have any unmerged work at this stage?09:04
mptyes, the work I'm doing right now :-)09:05
sabdflok then :-)09:05
sabdfli just don't want to create unnecessary conflicts09:05
sabdflif you could leave time at the end of your day to make sure your work passes page tests, then push the branch and ping me, i will integrate, review and possibly land it09:06
sabdflmain thing I want to get right this w/e is the navigation between /products/, /distributions/, /meetings/ and /people/09:07
sabdflif you could get the template for that right I will happily do the menus09:07
sabdfli will also fix up those pages to deal with the register-if-you-could-not-find-it cases09:08
sabdflthough of course they will just be rough links and will have to wait for action buttons09:08
mptI have numerous other lists of problems to fix too09:13
UbugtuNew bug: #87497 in launchpad "Tab (facet) text should not be customizable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8749709:20
sabdflok, let's get as many of the one-liners and easy fixes in as possible this w/e09:21
UbugtuNew bug: #87499 in blueprint ""Register a spec" button should be "Register a blueprint"" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8749909:31
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UbugtuNew bug: #87513 in rosetta "Combine "Change" and "Filter" buttons on translation page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8751310:55
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=== mpt wishes Launchpad's test suite had a progress meter
sabdfl...that only moved in one direction...11:14
mptoh, that would be a bonus11:15
=== mpt wishes usplash's progress meter went only in one direction, too ;-)
sabdflmpt: it does!11:16
mptIn Edgy at least, it goes in one direction on startup, the other direction on shutdown11:17
sabdflmpt: i'm changing the order of these action items on the products/distros/sprints pages11:17
mptI guess someone thought that was cute...11:17
sabdflthe "switch views" links should be at the top, then the "register" and "show all" ones11:17
sabdflmpt: oh, that's because shutting down is not the unwinding of starting up11:18
sabdflit's a train leaving a station11:18
sabdflalso, the capitalisation of the menus should I think be "Show projects" not "Show Projects"11:18
sabdflsentence caps11:18
mptSeriously, that would be an easy but very long task11:19
sabdfli'll do it11:20
sabdfljust for the menus i touch today11:20
mptI think the inconsistency would look bad - better to change it in one go11:21
FujitsuSpeaking of consistency... Is the lack of it on the action (`Report a bug', 'File a ticket', 'Translate') buttons on product pages known/deliberate?11:24
mptFujitsu, if you're referring to "Ask a question" being slightly different from the others, yes, that's known and not deliberate11:25
Fujitsumpt: That's the one. Good.11:25
FujitsuIt does look somewhat odd at the moment.11:25
sabdflmpt: the watermarks don't use a consistent amount of space11:26
sabdflas a result, it looks like the text is jumping around11:26
sabdflwhen it isn't11:26
sabdflneed to get that fixed11:26
mptThey are different sizes, yes11:26
mptranging from ~70px to ~100px11:26
sabdflthat's terrible11:26
sabdflthey should occupy the same size, and left/right/top/bottom whitespace should be consistent11:26
sabdflplease won't you drop usman a note?11:27
BjornTmpt: you get a progress indication if you supply -p to the test runner11:31
=== mpt resists the temptation to Ctrl+C to try that
UbugtuNew bug: #87518 in launchpad "Watermarks should be a consistent size" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8751811:40
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UbugtuNew bug: #2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/249712:05
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UbugtuNew bug: #52806 in rosetta "interface: "next" should be at the bottom, too" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/5280612:35
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UbugtuNew bug: #87525 in rosetta ""New translation" box out of screen" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8752512:50
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kgoetzi'm wondering if its posible to disable displaying the 'tags' list. i'm finding this list is longer then the useful content on  the page, and probably takes more bandwidth02:29
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kgoetzfor the record, theres tags there02:30
kgoetz* 798 tags02:30
kgoetzmmm. i'm off to sleep, but question remains ;)02:36
kgoetznight all02:37
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dsashi, I'm wondering if I could be added to the launchpad-beta-testers team? I applied and sent an email to matt revell nearly two weeks ago saying I won't post any screenshots...04:26
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sabdfldsas: done06:36
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cbx33does LP authenticate you via your gpg key when uploading and commiting to bzr branches?07:04
dsascbx33: ssh key 07:04
cbx33ahh ok07:04
cbx33thanks dsas07:04
dsassabdfl: cool, thanks!07:05
dsaswow, this looks great.07:06
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cbx33ok, if someone wants to check otu a branch on LP for commiting to07:10
cbx33is it 07:10
cbx33bzr branch <sftp://branch etc>07:11
sabdflcbx33: roughly, yes07:12
sabdflthat will branch07:12
cbx33thanks sabdfl 07:12
sabdflif you want to checkout, i think you use bzr checkout url://07:12
cbx33ahh i see07:12
sabdfldifference is where you commit to07:12
cbx33i mean I am in a team on LP with another user07:12
cbx33ahhh i see07:12
sabdfltypically, i branch to a local dir, hack hack hack local, commit offline etc, then push07:12
cbx33that's what I want to do07:13
sabdflcbx33: ok, then you probably want to checkout a shared branch07:13
sabdflyou both then commit to the same place07:13
sabdflLP acts like a free file storage space then07:13
cbx33well i want us both to push to the same place???07:13
cbx33currently I push to it07:13
dsaswhich would be bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~teamname/product/branchname07:13
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cbx33so does my team mate need to branch or checkout?07:14
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sabdflok, slow down07:14
sabdflseparate two concepts07:15
sabdflone concept is the "branch", which has a lot of history associated with it07:15
sabdflthat's where all the old revisions are stored07:15
sabdflwhen you commit, that gets updated07:15
sabdflthe other concept is your "working directory" or "working tree" (because in bzr it's the whole directory tree in one)07:15
sabdflwhen you checkout, you leave the branch where it is, and you create a local working directory07:15
sabdflinside that, when you commit, the changes are recorded in the branch that you checked out07:16
cbx33ahh i see07:16
cbx33so at the moment I must have a branch07:16
cbx33as when i commit it's local07:16
cbx33and I push to the location07:16
sabdflso if you do "bzr checkout lp:~team/product/branch" you are creating a local working directory, but the branch stays at lp07:16
sabdflcbx33: exactly right07:16
cbx33would it be safe/good idea for my team mate to branch out too?07:17
sabdflwhen you do "bzr branch lp:xxx" you are making a local branch07:17
sabdflcbx33: sure07:17
sabdflthen he should not push to the shared location07:17
sabdflhe will overwrite any changes07:17
cbx33if iwanted him to be able to commit to the server.....07:17
cbx33would he have to checkout instead07:17
cbx33and me too?07:17
sabdflso... if you want a shared branch, you create the team, push to a branch for the team, then BOTH check it out07:17
sabdflthen you can ALSO branch it locally07:18
sabdflnow you have two things07:18
cbx33or you can do commit --local i hear ?07:18
sabdfla local working directory of the shared branch07:18
sabdfland a branch+working directory07:18
sabdfldo your work in the branch07:18
sabdflmerge into the local-wd-of-checkout07:18
cbx33jee this gets confusing07:18
sabdflit's easier with pictures07:19
sabdfland once you get it, you fly07:19
cbx33if i checkout...i saw someone say you can commit --local ?07:19
sabdflbzr is the easiest of the distributed ones to use07:19
sabdflyes, i believe you can, but have never used that so don't know how it works07:19
cbx33i have used it for a while....but not..."properly"07:19
cbx33thanks sabdfl that's a great help07:20
cbx33how do i create the branch from the checkout?07:21
cbx33my local one i mean07:22
sabdfltry just bzr branch checkoutdir newdir07:22
sabdflit might automatically fetch the stuff from the branch associated with that checkoutdir07:22
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cbx33sabdfl, if I want to check for updates07:29
cbx33I presume I'd have to first run bzr update in the chreckout?07:30
cbx33then again in the working branch?07:30
sabdflthe working branch and the checkout are different07:30
sabdflso, if you are in the working tree, and do update, it looks at the branch and says "are there new commits in this branch since I was last updated"07:31
sabdflif your buddy committed to the shared branch, those changes will come into your checkout working directory07:31
sabdfland you may have to resolve conflicts07:31
cbx33what if i worked in my checkout?07:31
sabdflnow, if you then cd to the working BRANCH you made locally (it's actually a workingtree+branch)07:32
sabdfland do bzr update07:32
sabdflthen you will see "nothing to do"07:32
sabdflbecause nobody else is committing to your local branch07:32
sabdflmake sense?07:32
sabdflin the WT of the checkout, someone else might commit to the shared branch07:32
sabdflso bzr update will look for that07:32
sabdflbut in a local branch (which is a WT+branch), your buddy can't commit to that07:32
sabdflso bzr update will never see anything there new07:33
sabdflbzr merge is what you want07:33
cbx33is it just bad practice to "work" in my checkout07:33
sabdflwill pull in new revisions from the shared branch into your local WT+branch07:33
sabdflcbx33: no07:33
sabdflthe bzr developers often do that 07:33
sabdflwhen they are rapidly collaborating07:33
sabdfl(i think they know how to commit locally with a checkout too)07:34
sabdflif say they are offline and want to commit07:34
sabdflbzr gives you this flexibility07:34
sabdflbut MOST people don't need this07:34
sabdfli've never used a shared branch and checkout07:34
sabdfli just use branches07:34
cbx33it seems less complicated07:35
sabdflin order to make it perform better, i use another concept that I haven't told you about07:35
sabdflready for it?07:35
cbx33oh hang on 2 secs07:35
cbx33I'm getting my team mate to join07:35
sabdflwhat i have been describing as a "Branch" is actually 2 things07:35
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sabdfltoo late - he missed the early stuff, so this will be confusing07:35
sabdflsorry encompass07:35
cbx33bno he hasn't07:35
cbx33I've been pasting07:35
sabdflso what i've been calling a "Branch" is 2 things07:36
sabdflfirst, it's a "cloud of revisions"07:36
sabdflsecond, it's a "listing of the sequence of revisions that describes the history of THIS branch"07:36
encompassI get that07:36
sabdflyou can actually separate those two07:36
cbx33oh really?07:37
sabdfland share the "cloud of revisions" across multiple branches07:37
sabdflthink about it07:37
sabdflthe cloud of revisions contains EVERY version of EVERY file that has EVER existed07:37
cbx33yeh i see07:37
sabdflif you make a new branch, and put 1 commit on it, you may touch, say 5 files07:37
sabdflwhy store ALL the other revisions as well?07:37
sabdflmore importantly, why not put all of them into one shared cloud?07:38
sabdflyou have to keep the history of each branch separate07:38
encompassthat way everyone gets changes at once07:38
sabdflencompass: yes, if they are all sharing the cloud07:38
sabdflbut usually, this shared storage is all done locally07:38
sabdflwhat i'm describing now is called a repo07:38
sabdflfor repository07:38
sabdflif i make a repository, and then underneath it I do a "bzr branch", all the revisions will be stored in the repo, and the branch sequence-of-revisions history gets stored in the branch07:39
sabdflthe sequence detail is tiny07:39
sabdflcompared to the cloud of revisions07:39
sabdflso, this means then that when I merge into my branch from yours, all the revisions i have never seen before go into the cloud07:40
sabdflif I then merge from someone else, and you already provided me with a bunch of those revisions, I don't need to get them from you07:40
sabdflsorry, from them07:40
sabdflmore importantly07:40
sabdflsay I merge mainline into my branch A07:40
sabdflI get all the newer revisions07:40
encompassso when I make changes I get all his revisions too?07:40
encompassor "their"07:41
sabdflif I immediately then merge mainline into my branch B, I don't need ANY new revisions, i can find them all locally07:41
sabdflthink of each change they made as a "revision"07:41
sabdflactually, it's not the change, it's the "state of the files at the time of commit"07:41
cbx33there is a local cloud of all revisions?07:41
sabdflwhen I go commit, hack, commit, hack, commit, i make a set of revisions07:42
sabdflwhen you merge from me, you will get each of those revisions07:42
sabdflcbx33: there isn't, unless you setup a repo and use it07:42
cbx33right i see07:42
sabdflby default, each branch has its own cloud07:42
sabdflso, imagine this setup07:42
sabdflyou have a big mainline over there on a server07:42
sabdflyou do this:07:43
sabdflbzr branch sftp://server/path/to/mainline foo07:43
=== encompass throws up tomboy
sabdflbzr branch sftp://server/path/to/mainline  bzr07:43
sabdfli have TWO branches07:43
sabdfleach of them has ALL the revisions EVER from mainline07:43
sabdflthey are complete branches, totally independent07:43
sabdfli sucked down a lot of network bandwidth to do that07:43
sabdflactually, right now they are identical07:44
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sabdflassuming nobody commited in between my branches07:44
sabdflnow I hack on the one branch for a while07:44
sabdflpeople commit to mainline07:44
sabdflin the branch i am working on, i do a "bzr merge sftp://mainline..."07:44
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sabdflnow, in the cloud for that branch, i have all the new revisions07:45
sabdflbut in the other branch, it's cloud is separate, i never merged into that07:45
cbx33got it07:45
sabdflnow, if the branches used a shared repo, things would be different07:45
sabdflwhen i merge into branch foo, the following happens:07:45
sabdfl 1. the new revisions come into the shared cloud07:45
sabdfl 2. my working tree for *foo* gets the new changes, and maybe i have to update conflicts07:46
sabdfl 3. the working tree for *bar* is unaffected07:46
sabdflsay i now cd into bar07:46
sabdfland merge from mainline07:46
sabdflnow, all the revisions are already in the shared cloud07:46
sabdflso there's very little network traffic07:46
cbx33yes i see07:46
encompassok... cool07:47
sabdfl(this is the smartness spiv is working on with the smart server, to optimise that sort of dialog between client and server)07:47
sabdflso the merge goes very quickly07:47
encompassreally quick07:47
sabdflthe client and server establish that we already have all the revisions locally07:47
sabdflso its just the merge calculation07:47
sabdfland my working directory is updated locally07:47
cbx33so a question07:47
sabdfland of course the branch for bar also gets told "you have now included these revisions"07:48
cbx33encompass, and I are working on a very small...file quantiy.....project07:48
cbx33I have a branch that I have been working on07:48
cbx33and it is registered with LP07:48
cbx33as the team07:48
sabdflwhat do you mean "as the team"07:48
cbx33i created a team for our project07:49
sabdflyou mean you pushed the branch to a shared space, under a team account?07:49
sabdflyou can have multiple branches of course, individually and in the team07:49
cbx33so would you recommend us having personal branchs07:49
sabdflit depends07:49
cbx33and then for example I could tak control of pushing to the server07:49
sabdfldo you  imagine adding features that will require substantial orthogonal work?07:49
sabdflcbx33: that's one way07:50
cbx33we're pretty seperate07:50
sabdflcbx33: you just merge from encompass, and push to the server07:50
sabdflguys, i'm out of time07:50
sabdflhope this has helped07:50
cbx33thank you SOO much07:50
cbx33we owe you07:50
encompassit did it was a lease to chat with you07:50
encompasspleasure is all mine sire07:50
cbx33so i propose we create personal branches07:51
encompassok I will go back to phimage07:51
cbx33and then i will take control of merging the changes into the team repo07:51
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