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mpt | Gooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders! | 02:00 |
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LaserJock | hi mpt | 02:07 |
ajmitch | good afternoon mpt | 02:10 |
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Ubugtu | New bug: #87471 in launchpad "Grey text is unnecessarily difficult to read" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87471 | 03:15 |
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sistpoty | hi | 03:47 |
sistpoty | how can I make the member techboard an administrator of the team motu? | 03:48 |
ajmitch | they should be owner | 04:01 |
ajmitch | so I think dholbach should change that | 04:02 |
sistpoty | *cough* | 04:02 |
ajmitch | heh | 04:02 |
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ajmitch | oh my | 04:02 |
sistpoty | at least I wasn't stupid enough to rip myself of admin privileges yet *g* | 04:03 |
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Ubugtu | New bug: #87483 in launchpad "Need "Register a product" action button images" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87483 | 04:55 |
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sabdfl | morning mpt | 08:29 |
Fujitsu | Hi sabdfl. | 08:30 |
sabdfl | hey Fujitsu | 08:30 |
sabdfl | Fujitsu: liking the beta? | 08:31 |
Fujitsu | sabdfl: It's soooo much better in a lot of ways :) Still needs some improvements, obviously. | 08:31 |
sabdfl | yup, but i think we will start pushing it harder in a week or two once the initial cleanup is done | 08:31 |
Fujitsu | Sounds good. | 08:33 |
Fujitsu | It should be less of a maze, with the application tabs, for example. | 08:33 |
sabdfl | agreed, it has a much more consistent and understandable navigation system | 08:36 |
Fujitsu | Some of it (parts of the navigation within distribution source packages, for example) is still pretty terrible. | 08:37 |
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sabdfl | yes, agreed | 08:49 |
Fujitsu | It's one of the most complex mazes I've found in such a web application, unfortunately. | 08:50 |
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mpt | hi sabdfl | 08:58 |
sabdfl | morning mpt | 09:01 |
sabdfl | good day? | 09:01 |
mpt | SMTP problems, but apart from that, yes | 09:02 |
Fujitsu | mpt: Are there any improvements in line for the distro source package stuff on LP? Or should I complain to somebody else? | 09:03 |
sabdfl | mpt: will merge your branch into mine shortly | 09:03 |
sabdfl | there is a test failure i'm fixing, then i'll send it off to PQM too | 09:04 |
sabdfl | thanks for the update | 09:04 |
sabdfl | let's speak again monday morning my time, and we'll identify more snags | 09:04 |
mpt | ok | 09:04 |
sabdfl | mpt: do you have any unmerged work at this stage? | 09:04 |
mpt | yes, the work I'm doing right now :-) | 09:05 |
sabdfl | ok then :-) | 09:05 |
sabdfl | i just don't want to create unnecessary conflicts | 09:05 |
sabdfl | if you could leave time at the end of your day to make sure your work passes page tests, then push the branch and ping me, i will integrate, review and possibly land it | 09:06 |
sabdfl | main thing I want to get right this w/e is the navigation between /products/, /distributions/, /meetings/ and /people/ | 09:07 |
sabdfl | if you could get the template for that right I will happily do the menus | 09:07 |
sabdfl | i will also fix up those pages to deal with the register-if-you-could-not-find-it cases | 09:08 |
sabdfl | though of course they will just be rough links and will have to wait for action buttons | 09:08 |
mpt | I have numerous other lists of problems to fix too | 09:13 |
Ubugtu | New bug: #87497 in launchpad "Tab (facet) text should not be customizable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87497 | 09:20 |
sabdfl | ok, let's get as many of the one-liners and easy fixes in as possible this w/e | 09:21 |
Ubugtu | New bug: #87499 in blueprint ""Register a spec" button should be "Register a blueprint"" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87499 | 09:31 |
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Ubugtu | New bug: #87513 in rosetta "Combine "Change" and "Filter" buttons on translation page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87513 | 10:55 |
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=== mpt wishes Launchpad's test suite had a progress meter | ||
sabdfl | ...that only moved in one direction... | 11:14 |
mpt | oh, that would be a bonus | 11:15 |
=== mpt wishes usplash's progress meter went only in one direction, too ;-) | ||
sabdfl | mpt: it does! | 11:16 |
mpt | In Edgy at least, it goes in one direction on startup, the other direction on shutdown | 11:17 |
sabdfl | mpt: i'm changing the order of these action items on the products/distros/sprints pages | 11:17 |
mpt | I guess someone thought that was cute... | 11:17 |
sabdfl | the "switch views" links should be at the top, then the "register" and "show all" ones | 11:17 |
mpt | ok | 11:17 |
sabdfl | mpt: oh, that's because shutting down is not the unwinding of starting up | 11:18 |
sabdfl | it's a train leaving a station | 11:18 |
sabdfl | also, the capitalisation of the menus should I think be "Show projects" not "Show Projects" | 11:18 |
sabdfl | sentence caps | 11:18 |
mpt | 1.1! | 11:18 |
mpt | Seriously, that would be an easy but very long task | 11:19 |
sabdfl | i'll do it | 11:20 |
sabdfl | just for the menus i touch today | 11:20 |
mpt | I think the inconsistency would look bad - better to change it in one go | 11:21 |
Fujitsu | Speaking of consistency... Is the lack of it on the action (`Report a bug', 'File a ticket', 'Translate') buttons on product pages known/deliberate? | 11:24 |
mpt | Fujitsu, if you're referring to "Ask a question" being slightly different from the others, yes, that's known and not deliberate | 11:25 |
Fujitsu | mpt: That's the one. Good. | 11:25 |
Fujitsu | It does look somewhat odd at the moment. | 11:25 |
sabdfl | mpt: the watermarks don't use a consistent amount of space | 11:26 |
sabdfl | as a result, it looks like the text is jumping around | 11:26 |
sabdfl | when it isn't | 11:26 |
sabdfl | need to get that fixed | 11:26 |
mpt | They are different sizes, yes | 11:26 |
mpt | ranging from ~70px to ~100px | 11:26 |
sabdfl | yowser | 11:26 |
sabdfl | that's terrible | 11:26 |
sabdfl | they should occupy the same size, and left/right/top/bottom whitespace should be consistent | 11:26 |
sabdfl | please won't you drop usman a note? | 11:27 |
sabdfl | thanks | 11:27 |
mpt | ok | 11:27 |
BjornT | mpt: you get a progress indication if you supply -p to the test runner | 11:31 |
=== mpt resists the temptation to Ctrl+C to try that | ||
Ubugtu | New bug: #87518 in launchpad "Watermarks should be a consistent size" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87518 | 11:40 |
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Ubugtu | New bug: #2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2497 | 12:05 |
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Ubugtu | New bug: #52806 in rosetta "interface: "next" should be at the bottom, too" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52806 | 12:35 |
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Ubugtu | New bug: #87525 in rosetta ""New translation" box out of screen" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87525 | 12:50 |
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kgoetz | i'm wondering if its posible to disable displaying the 'tags' list. i'm finding this list is longer then the useful content on the page, and probably takes more bandwidth | 02:29 |
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kgoetz | for the record, theres tags there | 02:30 |
kgoetz | * 798 tags | 02:30 |
kgoetz | mmm. i'm off to sleep, but question remains ;) | 02:36 |
kgoetz | night all | 02:37 |
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dsas | hi, I'm wondering if I could be added to the launchpad-beta-testers team? I applied and sent an email to matt revell nearly two weeks ago saying I won't post any screenshots... | 04:26 |
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sabdfl | dsas: done | 06:36 |
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cbx33 | does LP authenticate you via your gpg key when uploading and commiting to bzr branches? | 07:04 |
dsas | cbx33: ssh key | 07:04 |
cbx33 | ahh ok | 07:04 |
cbx33 | thanks dsas | 07:04 |
dsas | sabdfl: cool, thanks! | 07:05 |
sabdfl | np | 07:05 |
dsas | wow, this looks great. | 07:06 |
=== dsas plays | ||
cbx33 | ok, if someone wants to check otu a branch on LP for commiting to | 07:10 |
cbx33 | is it | 07:10 |
cbx33 | bzr branch <sftp://branch etc> | 07:11 |
sabdfl | cbx33: roughly, yes | 07:12 |
sabdfl | that will branch | 07:12 |
cbx33 | cool | 07:12 |
cbx33 | thanks sabdfl | 07:12 |
sabdfl | if you want to checkout, i think you use bzr checkout url:// | 07:12 |
cbx33 | ahh i see | 07:12 |
sabdfl | difference is where you commit to | 07:12 |
cbx33 | i mean I am in a team on LP with another user | 07:12 |
cbx33 | ahhh i see | 07:12 |
sabdfl | typically, i branch to a local dir, hack hack hack local, commit offline etc, then push | 07:12 |
cbx33 | that's what I want to do | 07:13 |
sabdfl | cbx33: ok, then you probably want to checkout a shared branch | 07:13 |
sabdfl | you both then commit to the same place | 07:13 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:13 |
sabdfl | LP acts like a free file storage space then | 07:13 |
cbx33 | well i want us both to push to the same place??? | 07:13 |
cbx33 | currently I push to it | 07:13 |
dsas | which would be bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~teamname/product/branchname | 07:13 |
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cbx33 | so does my team mate need to branch or checkout? | 07:14 |
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sabdfl | ok, slow down | 07:14 |
sabdfl | separate two concepts | 07:15 |
sabdfl | one concept is the "branch", which has a lot of history associated with it | 07:15 |
sabdfl | that's where all the old revisions are stored | 07:15 |
cbx33 | right | 07:15 |
sabdfl | when you commit, that gets updated | 07:15 |
sabdfl | the other concept is your "working directory" or "working tree" (because in bzr it's the whole directory tree in one) | 07:15 |
sabdfl | when you checkout, you leave the branch where it is, and you create a local working directory | 07:15 |
sabdfl | inside that, when you commit, the changes are recorded in the branch that you checked out | 07:16 |
cbx33 | ahh i see | 07:16 |
cbx33 | so at the moment I must have a branch | 07:16 |
cbx33 | as when i commit it's local | 07:16 |
cbx33 | and I push to the location | 07:16 |
cbx33 | right? | 07:16 |
sabdfl | so if you do "bzr checkout lp:~team/product/branch" you are creating a local working directory, but the branch stays at lp | 07:16 |
sabdfl | cbx33: exactly right | 07:16 |
cbx33 | so... | 07:17 |
cbx33 | would it be safe/good idea for my team mate to branch out too? | 07:17 |
sabdfl | when you do "bzr branch lp:xxx" you are making a local branch | 07:17 |
sabdfl | cbx33: sure | 07:17 |
sabdfl | BUT | 07:17 |
sabdfl | then he should not push to the shared location | 07:17 |
sabdfl | he will overwrite any changes | 07:17 |
cbx33 | ahhh | 07:17 |
cbx33 | sooo | 07:17 |
cbx33 | if iwanted him to be able to commit to the server..... | 07:17 |
cbx33 | would he have to checkout instead | 07:17 |
cbx33 | and me too? | 07:17 |
sabdfl | so... if you want a shared branch, you create the team, push to a branch for the team, then BOTH check it out | 07:17 |
sabdfl | then you can ALSO branch it locally | 07:18 |
cbx33 | ok... | 07:18 |
sabdfl | now you have two things | 07:18 |
cbx33 | or you can do commit --local i hear ? | 07:18 |
sabdfl | a local working directory of the shared branch | 07:18 |
sabdfl | and a branch+working directory | 07:18 |
sabdfl | do your work in the branch | 07:18 |
sabdfl | merge into the local-wd-of-checkout | 07:18 |
sabdfl | commit | 07:18 |
cbx33 | jee this gets confusing | 07:18 |
cbx33 | hehe | 07:19 |
sabdfl | it's easier with pictures | 07:19 |
sabdfl | and once you get it, you fly | 07:19 |
cbx33 | if i checkout...i saw someone say you can commit --local ? | 07:19 |
sabdfl | bzr is the easiest of the distributed ones to use | 07:19 |
sabdfl | yes, i believe you can, but have never used that so don't know how it works | 07:19 |
cbx33 | i have used it for a while....but not..."properly" | 07:19 |
cbx33 | ok | 07:19 |
cbx33 | thanks sabdfl that's a great help | 07:20 |
cbx33 | how do i create the branch from the checkout? | 07:21 |
sabdfl | hmmm | 07:21 |
cbx33 | my local one i mean | 07:22 |
sabdfl | try just bzr branch checkoutdir newdir | 07:22 |
cbx33 | ok | 07:22 |
sabdfl | it might automatically fetch the stuff from the branch associated with that checkoutdir | 07:22 |
cbx33 | ok | 07:22 |
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cbx33 | sabdfl, if I want to check for updates | 07:29 |
cbx33 | I presume I'd have to first run bzr update in the chreckout? | 07:30 |
cbx33 | then again in the working branch? | 07:30 |
sabdfl | the working branch and the checkout are different | 07:30 |
sabdfl | so, if you are in the working tree, and do update, it looks at the branch and says "are there new commits in this branch since I was last updated" | 07:31 |
sabdfl | if your buddy committed to the shared branch, those changes will come into your checkout working directory | 07:31 |
sabdfl | and you may have to resolve conflicts | 07:31 |
cbx33 | ahhh | 07:31 |
cbx33 | ok | 07:31 |
cbx33 | what if i worked in my checkout? | 07:31 |
sabdfl | now, if you then cd to the working BRANCH you made locally (it's actually a workingtree+branch) | 07:32 |
sabdfl | and do bzr update | 07:32 |
sabdfl | then you will see "nothing to do" | 07:32 |
sabdfl | why? | 07:32 |
sabdfl | because nobody else is committing to your local branch | 07:32 |
sabdfl | make sense? | 07:32 |
sabdfl | in the WT of the checkout, someone else might commit to the shared branch | 07:32 |
sabdfl | so bzr update will look for that | 07:32 |
sabdfl | but in a local branch (which is a WT+branch), your buddy can't commit to that | 07:32 |
sabdfl | so bzr update will never see anything there new | 07:33 |
cbx33 | indeed | 07:33 |
cbx33 | so | 07:33 |
sabdfl | bzr merge is what you want | 07:33 |
cbx33 | is it just bad practice to "work" in my checkout | 07:33 |
sabdfl | will pull in new revisions from the shared branch into your local WT+branch | 07:33 |
sabdfl | cbx33: no | 07:33 |
sabdfl | the bzr developers often do that | 07:33 |
sabdfl | when they are rapidly collaborating | 07:33 |
sabdfl | (i think they know how to commit locally with a checkout too) | 07:34 |
sabdfl | if say they are offline and want to commit | 07:34 |
sabdfl | bzr gives you this flexibility | 07:34 |
sabdfl | but MOST people don't need this | 07:34 |
sabdfl | i've never used a shared branch and checkout | 07:34 |
sabdfl | i just use branches | 07:34 |
sabdfl | however | 07:34 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:34 |
cbx33 | it seems less complicated | 07:35 |
sabdfl | in order to make it perform better, i use another concept that I haven't told you about | 07:35 |
sabdfl | ready for it? | 07:35 |
cbx33 | yup | 07:35 |
sabdfl | ok | 07:35 |
cbx33 | oh hang on 2 secs | 07:35 |
cbx33 | I'm getting my team mate to join | 07:35 |
sabdfl | what i have been describing as a "Branch" is actually 2 things | 07:35 |
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encompass | ok | 07:35 |
sabdfl | too late - he missed the early stuff, so this will be confusing | 07:35 |
sabdfl | sorry encompass | 07:35 |
cbx33 | bno he hasn't | 07:35 |
sabdfl | ok | 07:35 |
cbx33 | I've been pasting | 07:35 |
sabdfl | ok | 07:36 |
encompass | howdy | 07:36 |
sabdfl | so what i've been calling a "Branch" is 2 things | 07:36 |
sabdfl | first, it's a "cloud of revisions" | 07:36 |
sabdfl | second, it's a "listing of the sequence of revisions that describes the history of THIS branch" | 07:36 |
encompass | ok | 07:36 |
encompass | I get that | 07:36 |
sabdfl | you can actually separate those two | 07:36 |
cbx33 | oh really? | 07:37 |
sabdfl | and share the "cloud of revisions" across multiple branches | 07:37 |
sabdfl | think about it | 07:37 |
sabdfl | the cloud of revisions contains EVERY version of EVERY file that has EVER existed | 07:37 |
cbx33 | yeh i see | 07:37 |
sabdfl | if you make a new branch, and put 1 commit on it, you may touch, say 5 files | 07:37 |
sabdfl | why store ALL the other revisions as well? | 07:37 |
sabdfl | more importantly, why not put all of them into one shared cloud? | 07:38 |
sabdfl | you have to keep the history of each branch separate | 07:38 |
encompass | that way everyone gets changes at once | 07:38 |
sabdfl | encompass: yes, if they are all sharing the cloud | 07:38 |
sabdfl | but usually, this shared storage is all done locally | 07:38 |
encompass | k | 07:38 |
cbx33 | indeed | 07:38 |
sabdfl | what i'm describing now is called a repo | 07:38 |
sabdfl | for repository | 07:38 |
sabdfl | if i make a repository, and then underneath it I do a "bzr branch", all the revisions will be stored in the repo, and the branch sequence-of-revisions history gets stored in the branch | 07:39 |
sabdfl | the sequence detail is tiny | 07:39 |
sabdfl | compared to the cloud of revisions | 07:39 |
sabdfl | so, this means then that when I merge into my branch from yours, all the revisions i have never seen before go into the cloud | 07:40 |
sabdfl | if I then merge from someone else, and you already provided me with a bunch of those revisions, I don't need to get them from you | 07:40 |
sabdfl | sorry, from them | 07:40 |
sabdfl | more importantly | 07:40 |
sabdfl | say I merge mainline into my branch A | 07:40 |
sabdfl | I get all the newer revisions | 07:40 |
encompass | so when I make changes I get all his revisions too? | 07:40 |
encompass | or "their" | 07:41 |
sabdfl | if I immediately then merge mainline into my branch B, I don't need ANY new revisions, i can find them all locally | 07:41 |
sabdfl | hm... | 07:41 |
cbx33 | ahh | 07:41 |
sabdfl | think of each change they made as a "revision" | 07:41 |
cbx33 | so... | 07:41 |
sabdfl | actually, it's not the change, it's the "state of the files at the time of commit" | 07:41 |
cbx33 | there is a local cloud of all revisions? | 07:41 |
encompass | ok | 07:41 |
sabdfl | when I go commit, hack, commit, hack, commit, i make a set of revisions | 07:42 |
sabdfl | when you merge from me, you will get each of those revisions | 07:42 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:42 |
sabdfl | cbx33: there isn't, unless you setup a repo and use it | 07:42 |
cbx33 | right i see | 07:42 |
sabdfl | by default, each branch has its own cloud | 07:42 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:42 |
sabdfl | so, imagine this setup | 07:42 |
sabdfl | you have a big mainline over there on a server | 07:42 |
sabdfl | you do this: | 07:43 |
sabdfl | bzr branch sftp://server/path/to/mainline foo | 07:43 |
=== encompass throws up tomboy | ||
sabdfl | bzr branch sftp://server/path/to/mainline bzr | 07:43 |
sabdfl | now | 07:43 |
sabdfl | i have TWO branches | 07:43 |
cbx33 | yup | 07:43 |
sabdfl | each of them has ALL the revisions EVER from mainline | 07:43 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:43 |
sabdfl | they are complete branches, totally independent | 07:43 |
sabdfl | i sucked down a lot of network bandwidth to do that | 07:43 |
sabdfl | actually, right now they are identical | 07:44 |
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sabdfl | assuming nobody commited in between my branches | 07:44 |
sabdfl | now I hack on the one branch for a while | 07:44 |
cbx33 | yeh | 07:44 |
sabdfl | people commit to mainline | 07:44 |
sabdfl | in the branch i am working on, i do a "bzr merge sftp://mainline..." | 07:44 |
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sabdfl | now, in the cloud for that branch, i have all the new revisions | 07:45 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:45 |
sabdfl | but in the other branch, it's cloud is separate, i never merged into that | 07:45 |
cbx33 | got it | 07:45 |
sabdfl | now, if the branches used a shared repo, things would be different | 07:45 |
sabdfl | when i merge into branch foo, the following happens: | 07:45 |
sabdfl | 1. the new revisions come into the shared cloud | 07:45 |
sabdfl | 2. my working tree for *foo* gets the new changes, and maybe i have to update conflicts | 07:46 |
sabdfl | 3. the working tree for *bar* is unaffected | 07:46 |
sabdfl | but | 07:46 |
sabdfl | say i now cd into bar | 07:46 |
sabdfl | and merge from mainline | 07:46 |
sabdfl | now, all the revisions are already in the shared cloud | 07:46 |
sabdfl | so there's very little network traffic | 07:46 |
cbx33 | yes i see | 07:46 |
encompass | ok... cool | 07:47 |
sabdfl | (this is the smartness spiv is working on with the smart server, to optimise that sort of dialog between client and server) | 07:47 |
sabdfl | so the merge goes very quickly | 07:47 |
encompass | really quick | 07:47 |
sabdfl | the client and server establish that we already have all the revisions locally | 07:47 |
sabdfl | so its just the merge calculation | 07:47 |
cbx33 | right... | 07:47 |
sabdfl | and my working directory is updated locally | 07:47 |
cbx33 | so a question | 07:47 |
sabdfl | and of course the branch for bar also gets told "you have now included these revisions" | 07:48 |
cbx33 | encompass, and I are working on a very small...file quantiy.....project | 07:48 |
cbx33 | I have a branch that I have been working on | 07:48 |
cbx33 | and it is registered with LP | 07:48 |
cbx33 | as the team | 07:48 |
sabdfl | sure | 07:48 |
sabdfl | what do you mean "as the team" | 07:48 |
cbx33 | i created a team for our project | 07:49 |
sabdfl | you mean you pushed the branch to a shared space, under a team account? | 07:49 |
sabdfl | cool | 07:49 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:49 |
sabdfl | you can have multiple branches of course, individually and in the team | 07:49 |
cbx33 | yes | 07:49 |
cbx33 | so would you recommend us having personal branchs | 07:49 |
sabdfl | yes | 07:49 |
sabdfl | it depends | 07:49 |
cbx33 | and then for example I could tak control of pushing to the server | 07:49 |
sabdfl | do you imagine adding features that will require substantial orthogonal work? | 07:49 |
sabdfl | cbx33: that's one way | 07:50 |
encompass | no | 07:50 |
cbx33 | we're pretty seperate | 07:50 |
sabdfl | cbx33: you just merge from encompass, and push to the server | 07:50 |
cbx33 | :p | 07:50 |
cbx33 | ok | 07:50 |
sabdfl | guys, i'm out of time | 07:50 |
cbx33 | np | 07:50 |
sabdfl | hope this has helped | 07:50 |
cbx33 | thank you SOO much | 07:50 |
cbx33 | we owe you | 07:50 |
encompass | it did it was a lease to chat with you | 07:50 |
encompass | pleasure is all mine sire | 07:50 |
cbx33 | so i propose we create personal branches | 07:51 |
encompass | yeah | 07:51 |
encompass | ok I will go back to phimage | 07:51 |
cbx33 | and then i will take control of merging the changes into the team repo | 07:51 |
encompass | he? | 07:51 |
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