=== sabdf1 is now known as sabdfl === shawn__ [n=shawn@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net] has joined #launchpad === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #launchpad === neversfelde_ [n=chrman@nrbg-4db4472e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #launchpad === MagicFab [n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab] has joined #launchpad === zwnj [n=behnam@213.207.210.231] has joined #launchpad [02:00] Gooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders! [02:07] hi mpt [02:10] good afternoon mpt === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #launchpad === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-137-28.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #launchpad [03:15] New bug: #87471 in launchpad "Grey text is unnecessarily difficult to read" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87471 === jml [n=jml@59.167.202.65] has joined #launchpad === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #launchpad [03:47] hi [03:48] how can I make the member techboard an administrator of the team motu? [04:01] they should be owner [04:02] so I think dholbach should change that [04:02] *cough* [04:02] heh === sistpoty just deactivated ogra [04:02] oh my [04:03] at least I wasn't stupid enough to rip myself of admin privileges yet *g* === AndrewB [n=andy@tuxhacker/pdpc.supporter.student.AndrewB] has left #launchpad ["freenode/#tuxhacker] === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.2.54.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #launchpad [04:55] New bug: #87483 in launchpad "Need "Register a product" action button images" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87483 === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #launchpad === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #launchpad === MagicFab [n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab] has joined #launchpad === siretart [i=siretart@tauware.de] has joined #launchpad === shawarma [n=sh@atlas.linux2go.dk] has joined #launchpad === BjornT [n=bjorn@clt-84-32-240-183.dtiltas.lt] has joined #launchpad [08:29] morning mpt [08:30] Hi sabdfl. [08:30] hey Fujitsu [08:31] Fujitsu: liking the beta? [08:31] sabdfl: It's soooo much better in a lot of ways :) Still needs some improvements, obviously. [08:31] yup, but i think we will start pushing it harder in a week or two once the initial cleanup is done [08:33] Sounds good. [08:33] It should be less of a maze, with the application tabs, for example. [08:36] agreed, it has a much more consistent and understandable navigation system [08:37] Some of it (parts of the navigation within distribution source packages, for example) is still pretty terrible. === marcus_notebook [n=mholthau@johnny33.dersbach.ch] has joined #launchpad [08:49] yes, agreed [08:50] It's one of the most complex mazes I've found in such a web application, unfortunately. === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #launchpad [08:58] hi sabdfl [09:01] morning mpt [09:01] good day? [09:02] SMTP problems, but apart from that, yes [09:03] mpt: Are there any improvements in line for the distro source package stuff on LP? Or should I complain to somebody else? [09:03] mpt: will merge your branch into mine shortly [09:04] there is a test failure i'm fixing, then i'll send it off to PQM too [09:04] thanks for the update [09:04] let's speak again monday morning my time, and we'll identify more snags [09:04] ok [09:04] mpt: do you have any unmerged work at this stage? [09:05] yes, the work I'm doing right now :-) [09:05] ok then :-) [09:05] i just don't want to create unnecessary conflicts [09:06] if you could leave time at the end of your day to make sure your work passes page tests, then push the branch and ping me, i will integrate, review and possibly land it [09:07] main thing I want to get right this w/e is the navigation between /products/, /distributions/, /meetings/ and /people/ [09:07] if you could get the template for that right I will happily do the menus [09:08] i will also fix up those pages to deal with the register-if-you-could-not-find-it cases [09:08] though of course they will just be rough links and will have to wait for action buttons [09:13] I have numerous other lists of problems to fix too [09:20] New bug: #87497 in launchpad "Tab (facet) text should not be customizable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87497 [09:21] ok, let's get as many of the one-liners and easy fixes in as possible this w/e [09:31] New bug: #87499 in blueprint ""Register a spec" button should be "Register a blueprint"" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87499 === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #launchpad === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #launchpad === shawn__ [n=shawn@209.12.28.210] has joined #launchpad [10:55] New bug: #87513 in rosetta "Combine "Change" and "Filter" buttons on translation page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87513 === neversfelde [n=chrman@nrbg-4db4472e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #launchpad === mpt wishes Launchpad's test suite had a progress meter [11:14] ...that only moved in one direction... [11:15] oh, that would be a bonus === mpt wishes usplash's progress meter went only in one direction, too ;-) [11:16] mpt: it does! [11:17] In Edgy at least, it goes in one direction on startup, the other direction on shutdown [11:17] mpt: i'm changing the order of these action items on the products/distros/sprints pages [11:17] I guess someone thought that was cute... [11:17] the "switch views" links should be at the top, then the "register" and "show all" ones [11:17] ok [11:18] mpt: oh, that's because shutting down is not the unwinding of starting up [11:18] it's a train leaving a station [11:18] also, the capitalisation of the menus should I think be "Show projects" not "Show Projects" [11:18] sentence caps [11:18] 1.1! [11:19] Seriously, that would be an easy but very long task [11:20] i'll do it [11:20] just for the menus i touch today [11:21] I think the inconsistency would look bad - better to change it in one go [11:24] Speaking of consistency... Is the lack of it on the action (`Report a bug', 'File a ticket', 'Translate') buttons on product pages known/deliberate? [11:25] Fujitsu, if you're referring to "Ask a question" being slightly different from the others, yes, that's known and not deliberate [11:25] mpt: That's the one. Good. [11:25] It does look somewhat odd at the moment. [11:26] mpt: the watermarks don't use a consistent amount of space [11:26] as a result, it looks like the text is jumping around [11:26] when it isn't [11:26] need to get that fixed [11:26] They are different sizes, yes [11:26] ranging from ~70px to ~100px [11:26] yowser [11:26] that's terrible [11:26] they should occupy the same size, and left/right/top/bottom whitespace should be consistent [11:27] please won't you drop usman a note? [11:27] thanks [11:27] ok [11:31] mpt: you get a progress indication if you supply -p to the test runner === mpt resists the temptation to Ctrl+C to try that [11:40] New bug: #87518 in launchpad "Watermarks should be a consistent size" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87518 === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #launchpad === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@242-124.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #launchpad === jelmer [n=jelmer@LIS-DHCP-22.ulb.ac.be] has joined #launchpad === lbm [n=lbm@0x555373ab.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #launchpad [12:05] New bug: #2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2497 === neversfelde_ [n=chrman@nrbg-4db444c3.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #launchpad === jelmer [n=jelmer@LIS-DHCP-22.ulb.ac.be] has joined #launchpad === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #launchpad === BjornT [n=bjorn@clt-84-32-240-183.dtiltas.lt] has joined #launchpad [12:35] New bug: #52806 in rosetta "interface: "next" should be at the bottom, too" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52806 === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #launchpad [12:50] New bug: #87525 in rosetta ""New translation" box out of screen" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87525 === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #launchpad === neversfelde_ [n=chrman@nrbg-4db44651.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #launchpad === doko [n=doko@164.15.34.95] has joined #launchpad === kgoetz [n=kgoetz@unafilliated/kgoetz] has joined #launchpad [02:29] i'm wondering if its posible to disable displaying the 'tags' list. i'm finding this list is longer then the useful content on the page, and probably takes more bandwidth === bac [n=bac@207.59.145.201] has joined #launchpad [02:30] for the record, theres tags there [02:30] * 798 tags [02:36] mmm. i'm off to sleep, but question remains ;) [02:37] night all === jinty [n=jinty@64.Red-83-50-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #launchpad === jelmer [n=jelmer@ctse16.ulb.ac.be] has joined #launchpad === zwnj [n=behnam@213.207.210.231] has joined #launchpad === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@ppp-9-72.25-151.libero.it] has joined #launchpad === dsas [n=dean@cpc3-stok6-0-0-cust253.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #launchpad [04:26] hi, I'm wondering if I could be added to the launchpad-beta-testers team? I applied and sent an email to matt revell nearly two weeks ago saying I won't post any screenshots... === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #launchpad === dsas [n=dean@cpc3-stok6-0-0-cust253.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #launchpad === bac [n=bac@cpe-065-190-191-245.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #launchpad [06:36] dsas: done === jkakar [n=jkakar@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net] has joined #launchpad === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #launchpad === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #launchpad [07:04] does LP authenticate you via your gpg key when uploading and commiting to bzr branches? [07:04] cbx33: ssh key [07:04] ahh ok [07:04] thanks dsas [07:05] sabdfl: cool, thanks! [07:05] np [07:06] wow, this looks great. === dsas plays [07:10] ok, if someone wants to check otu a branch on LP for commiting to [07:10] is it [07:11] bzr branch [07:12] cbx33: roughly, yes [07:12] that will branch [07:12] cool [07:12] thanks sabdfl [07:12] if you want to checkout, i think you use bzr checkout url:// [07:12] ahh i see [07:12] difference is where you commit to [07:12] i mean I am in a team on LP with another user [07:12] ahhh i see [07:12] typically, i branch to a local dir, hack hack hack local, commit offline etc, then push [07:13] that's what I want to do [07:13] cbx33: ok, then you probably want to checkout a shared branch [07:13] you both then commit to the same place [07:13] yes [07:13] LP acts like a free file storage space then [07:13] well i want us both to push to the same place??? [07:13] currently I push to it [07:13] which would be bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~teamname/product/branchname === neversfelde [n=neversfe@p54938658.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #launchpad [07:14] so does my team mate need to branch or checkout? === belito [n=user@201.240.84.5] has joined #launchpad [07:14] ok, slow down [07:15] separate two concepts [07:15] one concept is the "branch", which has a lot of history associated with it [07:15] that's where all the old revisions are stored [07:15] right [07:15] when you commit, that gets updated [07:15] the other concept is your "working directory" or "working tree" (because in bzr it's the whole directory tree in one) [07:15] when you checkout, you leave the branch where it is, and you create a local working directory [07:16] inside that, when you commit, the changes are recorded in the branch that you checked out [07:16] ahh i see [07:16] so at the moment I must have a branch [07:16] as when i commit it's local [07:16] and I push to the location [07:16] right? [07:16] so if you do "bzr checkout lp:~team/product/branch" you are creating a local working directory, but the branch stays at lp [07:16] cbx33: exactly right [07:17] so... [07:17] would it be safe/good idea for my team mate to branch out too? [07:17] when you do "bzr branch lp:xxx" you are making a local branch [07:17] cbx33: sure [07:17] BUT [07:17] then he should not push to the shared location [07:17] he will overwrite any changes [07:17] ahhh [07:17] sooo [07:17] if iwanted him to be able to commit to the server..... [07:17] would he have to checkout instead [07:17] and me too? [07:17] so... if you want a shared branch, you create the team, push to a branch for the team, then BOTH check it out [07:18] then you can ALSO branch it locally [07:18] ok... [07:18] now you have two things [07:18] or you can do commit --local i hear ? [07:18] a local working directory of the shared branch [07:18] and a branch+working directory [07:18] do your work in the branch [07:18] merge into the local-wd-of-checkout [07:18] commit [07:18] jee this gets confusing [07:19] hehe [07:19] it's easier with pictures [07:19] and once you get it, you fly [07:19] if i checkout...i saw someone say you can commit --local ? [07:19] bzr is the easiest of the distributed ones to use [07:19] yes, i believe you can, but have never used that so don't know how it works [07:19] i have used it for a while....but not..."properly" [07:19] ok [07:20] thanks sabdfl that's a great help [07:21] how do i create the branch from the checkout? [07:21] hmmm [07:22] my local one i mean [07:22] try just bzr branch checkoutdir newdir [07:22] ok [07:22] it might automatically fetch the stuff from the branch associated with that checkoutdir [07:22] ok === bac_ [n=bac@cpe-065-190-191-245.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #launchpad [07:29] sabdfl, if I want to check for updates [07:30] I presume I'd have to first run bzr update in the chreckout? [07:30] then again in the working branch? [07:30] the working branch and the checkout are different [07:31] so, if you are in the working tree, and do update, it looks at the branch and says "are there new commits in this branch since I was last updated" [07:31] if your buddy committed to the shared branch, those changes will come into your checkout working directory [07:31] and you may have to resolve conflicts [07:31] ahhh [07:31] ok [07:31] what if i worked in my checkout? [07:32] now, if you then cd to the working BRANCH you made locally (it's actually a workingtree+branch) [07:32] and do bzr update [07:32] then you will see "nothing to do" [07:32] why? [07:32] because nobody else is committing to your local branch [07:32] make sense? [07:32] in the WT of the checkout, someone else might commit to the shared branch [07:32] so bzr update will look for that [07:32] but in a local branch (which is a WT+branch), your buddy can't commit to that [07:33] so bzr update will never see anything there new [07:33] indeed [07:33] so [07:33] bzr merge is what you want [07:33] is it just bad practice to "work" in my checkout [07:33] will pull in new revisions from the shared branch into your local WT+branch [07:33] cbx33: no [07:33] the bzr developers often do that [07:33] when they are rapidly collaborating [07:34] (i think they know how to commit locally with a checkout too) [07:34] if say they are offline and want to commit [07:34] bzr gives you this flexibility [07:34] but MOST people don't need this [07:34] i've never used a shared branch and checkout [07:34] i just use branches [07:34] however [07:34] yes [07:35] it seems less complicated [07:35] in order to make it perform better, i use another concept that I haven't told you about [07:35] ready for it? [07:35] yup [07:35] ok [07:35] oh hang on 2 secs [07:35] I'm getting my team mate to join [07:35] what i have been describing as a "Branch" is actually 2 things === encompass [n=encompas@dsl-hvkgw1-fe6ffa00-119.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #launchpad [07:35] ok [07:35] too late - he missed the early stuff, so this will be confusing [07:35] sorry encompass [07:35] bno he hasn't [07:35] ok [07:35] I've been pasting [07:36] ok [07:36] howdy [07:36] so what i've been calling a "Branch" is 2 things [07:36] first, it's a "cloud of revisions" [07:36] second, it's a "listing of the sequence of revisions that describes the history of THIS branch" [07:36] ok [07:36] I get that [07:36] you can actually separate those two [07:37] oh really? [07:37] and share the "cloud of revisions" across multiple branches [07:37] think about it [07:37] the cloud of revisions contains EVERY version of EVERY file that has EVER existed [07:37] yeh i see [07:37] if you make a new branch, and put 1 commit on it, you may touch, say 5 files [07:37] why store ALL the other revisions as well? [07:38] more importantly, why not put all of them into one shared cloud? [07:38] you have to keep the history of each branch separate [07:38] that way everyone gets changes at once [07:38] encompass: yes, if they are all sharing the cloud [07:38] but usually, this shared storage is all done locally [07:38] k [07:38] indeed [07:38] what i'm describing now is called a repo [07:38] for repository [07:39] if i make a repository, and then underneath it I do a "bzr branch", all the revisions will be stored in the repo, and the branch sequence-of-revisions history gets stored in the branch [07:39] the sequence detail is tiny [07:39] compared to the cloud of revisions [07:40] so, this means then that when I merge into my branch from yours, all the revisions i have never seen before go into the cloud [07:40] if I then merge from someone else, and you already provided me with a bunch of those revisions, I don't need to get them from you [07:40] sorry, from them [07:40] more importantly [07:40] say I merge mainline into my branch A [07:40] I get all the newer revisions [07:40] so when I make changes I get all his revisions too? [07:41] or "their" [07:41] if I immediately then merge mainline into my branch B, I don't need ANY new revisions, i can find them all locally [07:41] hm... [07:41] ahh [07:41] think of each change they made as a "revision" [07:41] so... [07:41] actually, it's not the change, it's the "state of the files at the time of commit" [07:41] there is a local cloud of all revisions? [07:41] ok [07:42] when I go commit, hack, commit, hack, commit, i make a set of revisions [07:42] when you merge from me, you will get each of those revisions [07:42] yes [07:42] cbx33: there isn't, unless you setup a repo and use it [07:42] right i see [07:42] by default, each branch has its own cloud [07:42] yes [07:42] so, imagine this setup [07:42] you have a big mainline over there on a server [07:43] you do this: [07:43] bzr branch sftp://server/path/to/mainline foo === encompass throws up tomboy [07:43] bzr branch sftp://server/path/to/mainline bzr [07:43] now [07:43] i have TWO branches [07:43] yup [07:43] each of them has ALL the revisions EVER from mainline [07:43] yes [07:43] they are complete branches, totally independent [07:43] i sucked down a lot of network bandwidth to do that [07:44] actually, right now they are identical === shawn__ [n=shawn@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net] has joined #launchpad [07:44] assuming nobody commited in between my branches [07:44] now I hack on the one branch for a while [07:44] yeh [07:44] people commit to mainline [07:44] in the branch i am working on, i do a "bzr merge sftp://mainline..." === shawn___ [n=shawn@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net] has joined #launchpad [07:45] now, in the cloud for that branch, i have all the new revisions [07:45] yes [07:45] but in the other branch, it's cloud is separate, i never merged into that [07:45] got it [07:45] now, if the branches used a shared repo, things would be different [07:45] when i merge into branch foo, the following happens: [07:45] 1. the new revisions come into the shared cloud [07:46] 2. my working tree for *foo* gets the new changes, and maybe i have to update conflicts [07:46] 3. the working tree for *bar* is unaffected [07:46] but [07:46] say i now cd into bar [07:46] and merge from mainline [07:46] now, all the revisions are already in the shared cloud [07:46] so there's very little network traffic [07:46] yes i see [07:47] ok... cool [07:47] (this is the smartness spiv is working on with the smart server, to optimise that sort of dialog between client and server) [07:47] so the merge goes very quickly [07:47] really quick [07:47] the client and server establish that we already have all the revisions locally [07:47] so its just the merge calculation [07:47] right... [07:47] and my working directory is updated locally [07:47] so a question [07:48] and of course the branch for bar also gets told "you have now included these revisions" [07:48] encompass, and I are working on a very small...file quantiy.....project [07:48] I have a branch that I have been working on [07:48] and it is registered with LP [07:48] as the team [07:48] sure [07:48] what do you mean "as the team" [07:49] i created a team for our project [07:49] you mean you pushed the branch to a shared space, under a team account? [07:49] cool [07:49] yes [07:49] you can have multiple branches of course, individually and in the team [07:49] yes [07:49] so would you recommend us having personal branchs [07:49] yes [07:49] it depends [07:49] and then for example I could tak control of pushing to the server [07:49] do you imagine adding features that will require substantial orthogonal work? [07:50] cbx33: that's one way [07:50] no [07:50] we're pretty seperate [07:50] cbx33: you just merge from encompass, and push to the server [07:50] :p [07:50] ok [07:50] guys, i'm out of time [07:50] np [07:50] hope this has helped [07:50] thank you SOO much [07:50] we owe you [07:50] it did it was a lease to chat with you [07:50] pleasure is all mine sire [07:51] so i propose we create personal branches [07:51] yeah [07:51] ok I will go back to phimage [07:51] and then i will take control of merging the changes into the team repo [07:51] he? === neversfelde [n=neversfe@p54938658.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #launchpad === jikanter [n=jordan@c-24-12-220-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #launchpad === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #launchpad === Rinchen [n=Rinchen@ubuntu/member/rinchen] has joined #launchpad === ptme [n=chatzill@89.4.83.218] has joined #launchpad === jjesse [n=jjesse@ppp-70-226-90-15.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #launchpad === czajkowski [n=cypher@skynet.skynet.ie] has joined #launchpad === czajkowski [n=cypher@skynet.skynet.ie] has left #launchpad [] === effie_jayx [n=valles@201.209.144.185] has joined #launchpad === jjesse [n=jjesse@ppp-70-226-90-15.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #launchpad === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@ppp-93-73.25-151.libero.it] has joined #launchpad === shawn__ [n=shawn@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net] has joined #launchpad === Rinchen is now known as Rinchen|afk === jjesse [n=jjesse@ppp-70-226-90-15.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #launchpad === frodon_ido [n=patrick@ip-62-235-222-133.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #launchpad === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #launchpad === shawn__ [n=shawn@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net] has joined #launchpad === Rinchen|afk is now known as Rinchen === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #launchpad