[10:42] <h4writer> kwwii, are you there?
[10:43] <h4writer> can we talk about the help centre now?
[03:36] <h4writer> kwwii, are you there?
[04:15] <reuna> moo
[05:30] <troy_s> greets h4writer
[05:30] <troy_s> baa
[05:35] <kwwii> h4writer: now I am
[05:37] <troy_s> greets green fuzzy fruit.
[05:37] <troy_s> how be ye?
[05:38] <kwwii> troy_s: actually, thanks to nintendo nobody asks me why my nick K-WorldWarII
[05:38] <kwwii> now they ask me why I am so proud to own a wii
[05:38] <kwwii> ;-)
[05:38] <troy_s> that's bloody hilarious.
[05:38] <troy_s> i still think of the green fuzzy fruit.
[05:38] <kwwii> ;-)
[05:39] <troy_s> fizz boom the second makes me think of an old oil panting on the wall with you in some strange pose standing on a rhino and wearing a pith helmet.
[05:39] <kwwii> lol
[05:42] <kwwii> so here is the mouth gdm: http://sinecera.de/ubuntu_feisty_screen19.png
[05:42] <kwwii> thinking about making a whole theme around that...makes me think of desert, egyptian kinda stuff
[05:43] <kwwii> using lighter colors though, more sandy colors
[05:44] <troy_s> has sab offered (*sigh*) thoughts on the work yet?
[05:45] <h4writer> hoi kwii
[05:45] <h4writer> *kwwii
[05:45] <h4writer> I changed some of the layout of help centre
[05:45] <h4writer> is it good to give the forum post?
[05:46] <h4writer> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2204580
[05:46] <troy_s> kwwii: But I do think that beginning to think along the higher level lines makes more sense -- although I don't know if the egyptian / desert motif will fly with sab.  Hell I have no idea if you could pitch a grad to sabdfl.
[05:52] <h4writer> troy_s, kwwii: the last version I created: http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yelprb1.png
[05:53] <h4writer> I think I found a solution to the leftbar (so it looks more button-like) and I changed the color of the bar to orange
[05:53] <troy_s> slow as hell.
[05:54] <h4writer> http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8539/yelprb1.png
[05:54] <h4writer> is that faster
[05:54] <troy_s> i got it eventually...
[05:55] <h4writer> (do I need to give the previous version and/or the version now in edgy?)
[05:56] <andreasn> h4writer: nice stuff
[05:56] <andreasn> hm, should probably open a bug to make the life-boy be picked up from the theme
[05:57] <h4writer> (previous one: http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8122/helpcentregi3.png)
[05:59] <h4writer> (how it is now: http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1420/oldhelpcentrewg6.png)
[05:59] <h4writer> troy_s: and what are your remarks?
[05:59] <troy_s> i don't have any... they are all extremely minor tweaks.
[06:00] <troy_s> i would say overall, they are an improvement and i would put them in.  that said, ...
[06:00] <h4writer> andreasn, that's my intention. So it get refreshed.
[06:00] <troy_s> there is far too much twiddling over minor details in foss.
[06:02] <h4writer> Should I do what andreasn says, or ... and what do I need to do exactly
[06:03] <andreasn> h4writer: huh? make it themable? oh, I'll just ask shauwn about that
[06:03] <h4writer> andreasn, ok I guess that's no problem
[06:05] <h4writer> andreasn, so you will ask?
[06:05] <andreasn> sure
[06:06] <h4writer> thanks
[06:06] <h4writer> do you need some special files or something?
[06:06] <h4writer> or will the .png be okey
[06:07] <andreasn> oh, I was just referring to the life-boy illustration
[06:08] <troy_s> h4writer: He is talking about the image behind on the left.
[06:08] <troy_s> h4writer: It should follow the theme's lead and not be hard coded.
[06:08] <h4writer> okey
[06:09] <h4writer> so that's called a life-boy ... Now I understand I was not with you
[06:10] <andreasn> I think it is, not sure, it's called livboj in swedish :)
[06:10] <troy_s> life buoy
[06:10] <troy_s> i think is the term
[06:10] <troy_s> pronounced "boy"
[06:10] <kwwii> h4writer: is this stuff already in bzr?
[06:11] <h4writer> bzr?
[06:11] <troy_s> ack
[06:11] <troy_s> h4writer: If you make your changes to the actual 'package' in bzr, it makes it easier for kwwii to add things
[06:11] <troy_s> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr or one of the other tutorials.
[06:11] <kwwii> h4writer: so you'r output will be a tar.gz source deb pacakge?
[06:12] <kwwii> bzr makes it much easier with getting the latest version out, etc.
[06:12] <h4writer> okey
[06:12] <h4writer> I'm now installing it
[06:14] <troy_s> h4writer: Basically figure out what package the tweaks go into, bzr branch <package uri> mybranch
[06:14] <troy_s> then make changes and push them back up to the server
[06:14] <troy_s> then kwwii just does a bzr merge
[06:14] <troy_s> (as he is one of the only folks with write permissions to the official repos)
[06:14] <h4writer> okey, play time:p
[06:15] <troy_s> h4writer: It also helps you to get out of the mock mode -- let your get your hands dirty with actually making it reality, which the art team needs.
[06:16] <h4writer> yes it's nice I finally get to know how it works
[06:17] <h4writer> how can I find the package uri?
[06:18] <troy_s> h4writer: Should be in that tutorial.
[06:18] <troy_s> do a package search to find out where yelp is and such... andreasn might be able to help you with that as he is quite a wise fellow with gnome layout.
[06:19] <andreasn> and if I don't there is always people that know in gnome-hackers on gimpnet
[06:20] <andreasn> #gnome-hackers
[06:21] <troy_s> h4writer: Learning the loose package layout in Ubuntu is helpful as you can help others too.  I know a tad about it, but my knowledge doesn't extend into yelp.
[06:21] <h4writer> yeah, Indeed, you're wright
[06:22] <h4writer> *right
[06:23] <troy_s> h4writer: Luckily we have a few very knowledgeable folks who hang out here -- like andreasn -- and having him around is a massive asset.
[06:23] <andreasn> troy_s: dude, you're making me blush ;)
[06:23] <h4writer> :p
[06:23] <troy_s> andreasn: I also agree with that link you posted regarding the icon overuse... it seems people have made a meal out of the bloody things.
[06:24] <andreasn> well, people are quite fond of their pretty pictures :)
[06:24] <troy_s> andreasn: It would be nice to see interfaces lean away from menus and icons ... unfortunately I doubt that will happen in the future.
[06:24] <andreasn> maybe if we get better input devices
[06:25] <troy_s> andreasn: The problem is that they are fond of _their_ pictures -- someone sitting down at a linux library terminal would be completely lost, and the pictures aren't helping at all.  It would be nice if this sort of thing would get addressed by the community at large.
[06:25] <andreasn> and the olpc is a step in the right direction
[06:25] <troy_s> andreasn: That is a wonderful little unit.  How have they improved on the interface?
[06:25] <troy_s> andreasn: On a side note, in terms of absolutely wonderfully targetted design, you should watch two six year olds with Nintendogs.
[06:26] <andreasn> well, from the stuff Blizzard showed at Boston Summit it seems the managed to get away from:
[06:26] <andreasn> 1. Windows
[06:26] <andreasn> 2. Saving
[06:26] <troy_s> andreasn: I had the pleasure of watching that the other day and it was amazing that _none_ of the children needed help to setup a wireless connection.
[06:26] <andreasn> 3. and the network stuff works in interesting stuff
[06:26] <troy_s> andreasn: Do you have a link to a more explanatory bit for luddites like me?
[06:26] <troy_s> who need to read the details before they understand it.
[06:26] <andreasn> there should be some kind of design document somewhere
[06:26] <andreasn> let me check what I can find
[06:27] <troy_s> thanks a mill
[06:28] <h4writer> troy_s, so I think the branch uri would be https://launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/+branch/yelp/main
[06:28] <h4writer> can you check if that's alright
[06:28] <troy_s> no, but you can... sorry i am chessing
[06:29] <troy_s> usually the newer ones are feisty-*
[06:29] <andreasn> troy_s: I think this is the stuff: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Human_Interface_Guidelines/The_Laptop_Experience/Introduction
[06:29] <kwwii> h4writer: yes, that is right
[06:29] <h4writer> ok thanks
[06:30] <kwwii> h4writer: branch that using bzr, makes your changes, update the changelog, makefile, etc. and then put it on a normal http server somewhere
[06:30] <kwwii> sorry, i am cooking a duck at the moment, kinda busy
[06:30] <h4writer> no problem
[06:34] <troy_s> andreasn: WOW that is refreshing!
[06:36] <troy_s> andreasn: It is nice to see an abandonment of the old office files and folders paradigm that xerox started way back when.
[06:36] <h4writer> kwwii, can I see the change immediately. I main can I see the result?
[06:36] <h4writer> *mean
[06:36] <andreasn> troy_s: absolutely
[06:37] <andreasn> who knows, perhaps some of the stuff finds it way back to the regular desktop release
[06:38] <andreasn> speaking of weird/interesting gnome-stuff: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cjb/moko.jpg
[06:39] <andreasn> well, I better do the dishes, catch you later!
[07:44] <kwwii> h4writer: not sure I understand correctly
[07:44] <h4writer> ?
[07:45] <kwwii> 18:36 < h4writer> kwwii, can I see the change immediately. I main can I see the  result?
[07:45] <h4writer> yeah, can I build the package? So I can see the change immediately
[07:45] <h4writer> if I made I mistake
[07:45] <h4writer> if I'm good busy
[07:46] <kwwii> h4writer: well, once it is in a format to build, sure :-)
[07:46] <h4writer> okey
[07:46] <kwwii> h4writer: how did you change things now?
[07:46] <h4writer> no, I'm explorering the package
[07:46] <h4writer> it isn't that easy
[07:46] <kwwii> h4writer: did you take the source pacakge and edit that, or did you edit files on your running system?
[07:47] <h4writer> I did the bzr into a folder
[07:47] <h4writer> so I'm editing those
[07:47] <kwwii> cool, exactly :-)
[07:47] <h4writer> okey, I will come back within a hour of 2, to work further on it
[07:47] <kwwii> theorectically you could build that packae once it is done
[07:47] <h4writer> okey
[07:48] <kwwii> cool
[07:48] <h4writer> now I'm of to my brother coming from ski trip
[07:48] <h4writer> see you
[07:49] <kwwii> see you
[07:54] <troy_s> kwwii
[07:54] <troy_s> here is another piece of community work that might be worth integrating
[07:54] <troy_s> http://www.taimila.com/orange-look.php
[07:54] <troy_s> scroll down to the terminal server client portion
[07:55] <troy_s> she actually has many little 'theme' updates that would probably go a long way to rounding out the human look.
[07:55] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[07:59] <kwwii> but it is a "he"
[08:03] <kwwii> doing dishes, bbl
[08:08] <troy_s> ah well there you go
[08:08] <troy_s> anyways, most of that crap should probably just get dropped in.
[09:21] <nysosym> hi there :)
[09:27] <troy_s> greets nysosym
[09:28] <nysosym> hi troy_s, how are u? :)
[09:28] <BHSPitMonkey> yo
[09:29] <troy_s> hanging in there.
[09:31] <nysosym> troy_s: why?
[09:31] <troy_s> just running low on motivation
[09:40] <troy_s> greets coz_
[09:41] <coz_> troy_s, hey guy
[10:10] <nysosym> kwwii: on what do u working these time? :D
[10:10] <kwwii> nysosym: nothing - watching tv ;-)
[10:11] <nysosym> well, that's a good thing, what is on tv? :)
[10:20] <h4writer> kwwii, are you there and do you have the time to show me how I can compile my version?
[10:20] <h4writer> for testing?
[10:28] <kwwii> h4writer: not sure about building it myself...
[10:28] <kwwii> h4writer: try an autogen or whatever, and then configure and make
[10:29] <kwwii> h4writer: I am sure that there is a better way to build it though
[10:29] <kwwii> in the end you want to do something like debuild or whatever
[10:29] <kwwii> I spent 7 years+ working on rpm based systems, still getting used to debian
[10:29] <h4writer> okey
[10:47] <h4writer> kwwii, I didn't find information about autogen in combination with bzr. Can it be, you need to use debuild?
[11:06] <nysosym> hi PingunZ__ :)
[11:38] <kwwii> h4writer: if debuild works it is probably better to use it
[11:40] <h4writer> it isn't working at all:p
[11:40] <h4writer> but I'm searching for the solution
[11:40] <h4writer> I don't know why, but I don't have pgp-agent
[11:44] <h4writer> kwwii and I want to try BzrBuildpackage
[11:45] <h4writer> it is specially designed for building them
[12:00] <nysosym> good night my friends! :)