[09:23] <achak> will feisty support ntfs-3g by default?
[09:23] <Mithrandir> no
[09:23] <achak> Mithrandir: any idea why?
[09:23] <Mithrandir> nobody has written a spec and done the work and we are post feature freeze.
[09:24] <achak> Mithrandir: aha, i see
[09:24] <Mithrandir> it's in universe though, so it's there and might work.
[09:26] <achak> Mithrandir: it would be cool to have it by default, since ntfs-3g recently reached its stable version (1.0) and hence is quite safe :(
[09:26] <Mithrandir> maybe for feisty+1
[09:26] <achak> Mithrandir: aha, that's still good enough
[09:26] <achak> Mithrandir: beryl too?
[09:27] <Mithrandir> hiya Scott.
[09:27] <achak> Mithrandir: or nothing's certain?
[09:27] <Keybuk> hey
[09:27] <Mithrandir> achak: beryl's not even in the archive yet.
[09:27] <Keybuk> (and doesn't even work if it was :p)
[09:28] <achak> Mithrandir: oops, didn't know that
[09:28] <achak> Mithrandir: is it that bad? :)
[09:28] <Mithrandir> achak: I rejected it back in December due to licencing problems and nobody has uploaded a new package yet.
[09:28] <Mithrandir> the state back then was quite bad.
[09:29] <achak> Mithrandir: licencing problems?! is it not gpl?
[09:29] <Mithrandir> it is, but it ships files without sources.
[09:50] <achak> Mithrandir: i wonder why some people prefer to do this
[09:51] <Keybuk> botched-together build
[09:52] <Mithrandir> achak: the compiler needed for making the .c files is non-free..
[09:52] <Mithrandir> so beryl would conceivably go to multiverse.
[09:52] <Keybuk> heh
[09:52] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that bit I didn't know; what are the .c files?
[09:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: GLSL (GL Shader Language) fragment shaders.
[09:53] <Mithrandir> in this case they're trivial enough you could have written them from scratch, but they haven't.
[09:54] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: there are also 4k by 4k pixmaps embedded in .c files which I somehow doubt is the "preferred format for modifications".  (No, it's not xpm.)
[09:56] <Keybuk> lol
[09:56] <Keybuk> I can't even get beryl to compile
[09:56] <Keybuk> it segfaults ld
[09:56] <Keybuk> you can only compile the i386 package on an x86-64
[09:56] <Mithrandir> !
[09:57] <achak> Mithrandir: why don't they use compiz's?
[09:57] <achak> Mithrandir: or does compiz have similar issues?
[09:57] <Mithrandir> achak: why don't they use compiz's what?
[09:58] <achak> compiler
[09:58] <Mithrandir> uh, compiz does not include a fragment shader compiler.
[09:58] <Mithrandir> that'd be like your shell providing a web browser and sshd.  Not even zsh does that.
[09:58] <achak> Mithrandir: oh, actually i have no idea what a fragment shader is
[09:59] <Mithrandir> achak: no, for a start compiz is MIT, so it would be fine in compiz.
[10:00] <achak> Mithrandir: but probably a fragment shader is what makes beryl nicer than compiz, i guess
[10:00] <Mithrandir> it's just used in one of the plugins.
[10:01] <achak> Mithrandir: ah, then is should simply be eliminated until issues are addressed by *them*
[10:01] <Keybuk> "nicer" ?
[10:01] <Mithrandir> somebody needs to do that work and actually upload the new packages.  Most of this can be solved fairly easily by chopping off bits, but it's still works somebody needs to do.
[10:02] <Keybuk> it makes beryl a lot more entertaining and fun
[10:02] <achak> Keybuk: yes, nicer, at least to some
[10:02] <Keybuk> I'm not sure that it makes beryl a better window manager
[10:02] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: but it BURNS your windows.  How could it not be good?
[10:02] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: it's great for showing off
[10:02] <achak> Mithrandir: what do you mean by "burn"?
[10:02] <achak> Mithrandir: is it some effect?
[10:03] <Keybuk> achak: you've never seen the BURN animation plugin?! :P
[10:03] <Keybuk> windows catch fire and burn off your desktop
[10:03] <Mithrandir> very bling.  Not very useful.
[10:03] <Keybuk> indeed
[10:03] <Keybuk> right now, I think metacity is the only useful window manager
[10:04] <Keybuk> and you can switch to beryl to show off to non-Linux users, but switch back when they're not looking
[10:04] <Keybuk> and that as we find things that improve usability, they'll end up in compiz
[10:04] <Keybuk> which will get to be as useful a window manager as metacity over time
[10:04] <Keybuk> but with a little transparency, shadowing, etc. to improve things
[10:05] <Mithrandir> which, to be fair, is just eyecandy, but people want pretty.
[10:05] <troy_s> eyecandy != pretty
[10:05] <Keybuk> making unused windows increasingly transparent is quite handy, makes it more obvious which window is focussed
[10:05] <Keybuk> and slight shadows mean you can do away with the window borders, freeing up screen estate
[10:06] <Keybuk> beryl has a handy plugin, windows shiver slightly as they get focus -- handy for ffm
[11:08] <Keybuk> yet again it strikes me that Google have a really fucked concept of Internationalisation
[11:08] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: What have they done this time?
[11:09] <Keybuk> my usual gripe is that the list-o-languages in the preferences is translated into whatever language you're viewing Google in at the time
[11:09] <Keybuk> that should be a fixed list, with each language given its local name -- since you're only using it because you can't read anything else
[11:09] <Keybuk> today's "new thing" is Google Maps
[11:10] <Keybuk> they show each country with place names in the local language
[11:10] <Keybuk> e.g.
[11:10] <sabdfl> Keybuk: what language are you navigating in today?
[11:10] <Keybuk> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=tokyo&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=35.678599,139.773474&spn=0.031165,0.086517&om=1
[11:10] <Keybuk> when they should show place names according to your browsing locale
[11:10] <Keybuk> sabdfl: Google infamously override your browser/preference language with the language of your origin country (from geoip)
[11:11] <Keybuk> sabdfl: so whenever you visit any foreign country, the first thing you have to do is tell Google that you want it back in English, thankyou
[11:11] <sabdfl> hard to get xhosa names for tokyo suburbs
[11:11] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: maps was normal a few hours ago, I'm sure.
[11:11] <sabdfl> but yes, agreed, this is suboptimal
[11:11] <Fujitsu> Oh, for small-scale like that...
[11:11] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: yeah, I think this is a new thing
[11:11] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: it's true at the world-scale too, Japan appears as waffle-samurai
[11:12] <Fujitsu> I had Google Earth showing me Melbourne in katakana for some reason some months back.
[11:12] <Keybuk> sabdfl: it reminds me that I must blog about my favourite example of people paying lip service to accessibility without actually thinking about it
[11:12] <Keybuk> at the Trafford Centre in Manchester, they have carefully added brail to every single sign
[11:13] <Keybuk> so blind people can still read them
[11:13] <Keybuk> one sign in particular, with brail on it, amused me
[11:13] <Mithrandir> (braille)
[11:13] <Keybuk> "DO NOT STAND IN FRONT OF THIS DOOR"
[11:13] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: err, yes
[11:13] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: How very useful!
[11:15] <Fujitsu> Small-scale Japan has been in Japanese for months, but I don't think it has been from the default zoom level for long.
[11:54] <giskard> the latest xorg in ubuntu can use AIGLX right?
[11:54] <Mithrandir> giskard: xorg in Ubuntu has supported aiglx for a long time.
[11:55] <giskard> Mithrandir, i only wanted be sure :) thank you (morning)
[11:55] <Mithrandir> yes, good morning.
[11:56] <Keybuk> do you still need the Option "Composite" "Enable" thing?
[11:56] <JanC_FOSDEM> no
[11:56] <Keybuk> it's enabled by default now?
[11:59] <giskard> we prefer to use aiglx or xgl? because i don't like build the beryl-xgl  bin
[12:00] <JanC_FOSDEM> if aiglx works for you, use it -- it's the easiest to set up   :)
[12:03] <JanC_FOSDEM> Keybuk: I didn't have to use it until some days ago, except that partial Xorg 7.1/7.2 on feisty seems to have broken beryl/compiz currently
[12:04] <Keybuk> yes
[12:06] <giskard> JanC, Keybuk shaw_work (a debian pkg-xorg guy) has some patches
 xorg-x11-server-1.1.0-dont-backfill-bg-none.patch
 xorg-x11-server-1.1.0-no-move-damage.patch
 xorg-x11-server-1.1.1-glcore-visual-matching.patch
 xorg-x11-server-1.1.1-offscreen-pixmaps.patch
[12:10] <Keybuk> updating to xorg 1.2 fixes it too
[12:32] <cjwatson> sabdfl: Xhosa> wouldn't it just be i-Tokyo etc.? :-)
[12:33] <cjwatson> tsmithe: yes, just bump the version number for each upload and it'll do the right thing
[12:33] <tsmithe> ok thanks
[01:38] <okaratas> hmm
[01:38] <okaratas> hello
[01:38] <okaratas> ozgur@ozgur:/var/crash$ ls -la /var/crash/
[01:38] <okaratas> total 27028
[01:38] <okaratas> drwxr-xr-x  2 root  root      4096 2007-02-25 14:16 .
[01:38] <okaratas> drwxr-xr-x 15 root  root      4096 2006-10-25 16:39 ..
[01:38] <okaratas> -rw-------  1 root  root     65383 2007-02-25 14:16 _sbin_udevd.0.crash
[01:38] <okaratas> -rw-------  1 ozgur ozgur  1801255 2007-02-25 14:19 _usr_bin_gnome-terminal.1000.crash
[01:38] <okaratas> -rw-------  1 ozgur ozgur  1565976 2007-02-24 16:23 _usr_bin_xchat.1000.crash
[01:39] <okaratas> ozgur@ozgur:/var/crash$ uname -ar
[01:39] <okaratas> Linux ozgur.laptop 2.6.17-11-generic #2 SMP Thu Feb 1 19:52:28 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
[01:39] <Hobbsee> okaratas: please dont spam the channel with needless info
[01:39] <Hobbsee> okaratas: please, file a bug.
[01:39] <okaratas> Hobbsee, okey
[01:39] <Hobbsee> okaratas: if you're going to spam the channel, make sure you actually provide some context first
[01:39] <Hobbsee> heya jono 
[01:40] <jono> hey
[01:40] <okaratas> jono, hello
[01:40] <jono> hey okaratas
[01:41] <okaratas> how are you jono ?
[01:41] <jono> okaratas: good thanks, just woke up :)
[01:41] <okaratas> hm okey eh :)
[01:44] <okaratas> i using ubuntu 6.10 my laptop
[01:48] <bhale> jono: weee mathcore
[01:49] <_ion> Where?
[01:49] <bhale> jono blogged it the other day, tickled me
[01:51] <jono> bhale: hehe :)
[01:52] <_ion> Oh, no audio? :-(
[01:53] <okaratas> I use ubuntu 6.10 in the computers of the company and keep it updated. I also use ubuntu for the servers. However, there were several crashes in the ubuntu that I installed in the laptop. What might be the reason of that? In addition, firefox is crashed in all computers most of the time. What would you suggest?
[01:54] <Hobbsee> okaratas: please see the /topic
[01:54] <KaiL> okaratas, at first I suggest reading the topic - more specifiy the first part of it
[01:56] <okaratas> Hobbsee, ok
[02:53] <AnRkey> what is the best ide to use for python?
[02:54] <AnRkey> does any1 have any favourates?
[02:54] <Mithrandir> I like emacs.
[02:54] <bhale> and I am using vim with python just now :)
[02:56] <AnRkey> yeah but for the less hardcore
[02:56] <AnRkey> :D
[02:57] <bhale> ive always found the value of linux ides to be dubious
[02:57] <bhale> find a text editor you like and your favorite language reference and go
[02:58] <AnRkey> well here is the thing, i am used to using zends ide for php
[02:58] <AnRkey> and i was looking for something like that for python
[02:58] <Keybuk> I'd like a decent IDE
[02:58] <giftnudel> yes, but the possibility to shift-klick on a function and go to the definition is nice
[02:58] <AnRkey> still learning here
[02:58] <AnRkey> i found zend's ide for php very helpfull when learning php
[02:59] <bhale> thats because in php they change the order of arguments in array functions every 3 :)
[02:59] <bhale> you have no choice but to look them up
[03:01] <AnRkey> common bhale, answer the freaken question! :-D If you had to choose or suggest one...
[03:01] <AnRkey> we all know you use one :D
[03:03] <Keybuk> AnRkey: most people don't use them, actually
[03:03] <Keybuk> we really just use emacs or vi
[03:07] <AnRkey> ok ok
[03:08] <AnRkey> thanks anyway
[03:08] <finalbeta> perhaps code blocks can do python, don't know
[03:08] <finalbeta> nope
[03:11] <AnRkey> i think eclipse is what i am looking for
[03:11] <AnRkey> just installed it
[03:11] <AnRkey> wow
[03:13] <AnRkey> gonna try pydev
[03:16] <Spads> AnRkey: check out eric when you find time.  it seem sto have a sizable following
[03:42] <bddebian> Heya
[03:44] <h4writer> Got a question. I used bzr to get the 'source' of yelp/help centre. Now I want to compile it, to see if it works properly. It tried with autogen.sh but got some errors I can't solve.
[03:44] <h4writer> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7490/
[04:01] <h4writer> does anyone knows how I can compile the bzr branch of yelp?
[04:01] <h4writer> or how you supposed to do that
[04:04] <bddebian> h4writer: Do you have gconf installed?
[04:04] <h4writer> nop
[04:05] <h4writer> is now installing
[04:05] <h4writer> yes is now installed
[04:06] <h4writer> bddebian, what do I need to do next?
[04:06] <bddebian> re-run autgen?
[04:06] <h4writer> still giving the same error
[04:07] <bddebian> Hmm
[04:07] <h4writer> !flood
[04:07] <bddebian> Did you install gconf or libgconf2-dev ?
[04:08] <h4writer> this time gconf
[04:08] <h4writer> but I have installed libgconf2-dev already
[04:09] <h4writer> okey, I've missed
[04:09] <h4writer> I did only install gconf
[04:09] <h4writer> the whole time
[04:09] <h4writer> is now installing
[04:11] <h4writer> bddebian, isn't installed totally. I got some other errors then before. But I will try to fix them first myself.
[04:12] <okaratas> rver
[04:53] <h4writer> Got a question. For building the yelp package I need to install a mozilla/firefox/xulrunner -devel package. Now I think that is libxul that I need to install. But that depends on libnss3-dev and that conflicts with libnss a default package for ubuntu-desktop. So I can't install it??????
[04:55] <bddebian> h4writer: I would suggets firefox-dev
[04:55] <h4writer> okey
[04:58] <h4writer> yes, that worked thanks
[04:59] <bddebian> NP
[05:00] <h4writer> after running ./autogen.sh you only need to run 'make' and 'sudo make install' and it is installed?
[05:02] <bddebian> That's the theory :-)
[05:02] <bddebian> Oh, no, you should still need to run configure, unless autogen does that for you
[05:03] <h4writer> if I'm not wrong I saw autogen.sh do it
[05:04] <bddebian> OK
[05:04] <h4writer> indeed: Running ./configure --enable-maintainer-mode ...
[05:32] <lesshaste> hi all
[07:34] <balor> Is VDSO disabled in Feisty kernels?
[07:43] <Le-Chuck_ITA> hi there
[07:43] <Le-Chuck_ITA> there is a bug in ubuntu, bug #40473
[07:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40473 in xorg "/etc/X11/xorg.conf should point to /dev/input/wacom instead of /dev/wacom and xserver-xorg-input-wacom should depend on wacom-tools (AKA Wacom support almost there... add some udev magic?)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/40473
[07:44] <Le-Chuck_ITA> I think that for feisty it could be solved easily
[07:44] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and I have a tablet and are often available online
[07:45] <Le-Chuck_ITA> so if nobody is here right now I will try in the next days or else just tell me now that you're interested in interactive experimenting
[07:47] <pochu> Le-Chuck_ITA: feisty will probably ship x.org 7.2
[07:47] <pochu> Le-Chuck_ITA: does that also happen with it?
[07:47] <pochu> Le-Chuck_ITA: I've read something that 7.2 doesn't use /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[07:47] <pochu> but I'm not sure :)
[07:48] <Le-Chuck_ITA> omg if this is true there will be nothing that I know about my system
[07:48] <Le-Chuck_ITA> :)
[07:49] <Le-Chuck_ITA> everything changed from my first installation of slackware 10 years ago, kernel, init, now X!!!!
[07:49] <Le-Chuck_ITA> ok, I think that it is a dependency bug
[07:50] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and one needs wacom-tools which are not installed
[07:50] <Le-Chuck_ITA> when xorg wacom input drivers are installed
[07:50] <Le-Chuck_ITA> so not using xorg.conf would not change things
[07:52] <Le-Chuck_ITA> ok will try in the next days, thanks and bye
[09:25] <arnor> hello World!
[09:34] <jdong> System.Console.out.println("hello to you too");
[09:39] <sacater> who here is a developer?
[09:40] <jdong> a good 90% of the channel :)
[09:40] <jdong> but it's a weekend
[09:40] <jdong> and we'd like to pretend we have lives
[09:41] <mr_pouit> ^^
[09:42] <jdong> mr_pouit: btw how is ffmpeg for edgy? :)
[09:43] <sacater> jdong: if i wanted to be a devel, there are different choices, like community, software, that sort of thing
[09:44] <jdong> I don't quite follow what you are implying
[09:45] <sacater> jdong: are you a developer?
[09:45] <jdong> kind of in between
[09:46] <jdong> I do work on Ubuntu (backports, forums, miscellaneous bugfixing contributions) but am not an official MOTU or core developer
[09:47] <Hobbsee> sacater: people here are either developers, lurking developers, or just lurkers.
[09:47] <mr_pouit> jdong, oops, I didn't try to backport it from feisty (too lazy :P). But I use feisty ffmpeg with --enable-risky, and no problem. ;)
[09:47] <jdong> mr_pouit: yeah, feisty works great :)
[09:47] <sacater> jdong: Im interested in the whole 'Developer' thing
[09:48] <sacater> I know a gentoo devel, and he says be a devel is great :P
[09:48] <jdong> mr_pouit: Edgy will work but that x264 patch needs to be commented out
[09:48] <jdong> (stock edgy packages won't enable all risky stuff with --enable-risky..., so you need to backport Feisty)
[09:48] <Hobbsee> wow, no updates today
[09:49] <jdong> sacater: cool. you'd probably want to be in #ubuntu-motu then :)
[09:49] <simira> Hobbsee: they're all at fosdem and to drunk :p
[09:49] <sacater> jdong: ty
[09:49] <jdong> np
[09:49] <Hobbsee> simira: haha.  some of them, anyway :P
[09:49] <Hobbsee> simira: you going to be in spain?
[09:49] <simira> Hobbsee: and some is on their way home... :)
[09:49] <simira> Hobbsee: don't know. Probably not.
[09:50] <Hobbsee> true
[09:50] <Hobbsee> awwww....
[09:50] <simira> Hobbsee: maybe adding a weekend to one or two days.
[09:50] <Hobbsee> simira: right, yep
[09:50] <simira> you're going?
[09:51] <Hobbsee> simira: planning to, yes
[09:51] <simira> Hobbsee: going that far, you could as well drop by Norway ;)
[09:52] <Hobbsee> simira: i wish :)
[10:12] <h4writer> !flood