[12:42] <Adri2000> is there any archive admin here?
[12:44] <Xerroz> does anyone know how i can build an ubuntu base with full debugging symbols?
[12:52] <geser> Xerroz: there are for nearly all packages debug packages available with the symbols
[12:53] <Xerroz> right, but I want to install a clean base setup for full debugging, and i am unsure how
[02:58] <bddebian> Heya
[05:26] <mariano> anyone can point me to the source packages for gnome-session?
[05:30] <Fujitsu> mariano: It's in the source package `gnome-session', and can be retrieved from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnome-session.
[05:30] <Fujitsu> Or from the gnome-session page on LP, probably.
[05:30] <mariano> thanks
[05:31] <mariano> which file is the source package?
[05:31] <mariano> *blush*
[05:31] <Fujitsu> The source package is made up of the .dsc, .orig.tar.gz, and .diff.gz of the appropriate version.
[05:31] <mariano> ah
[05:31] <mariano> thanks
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[07:26] <sid> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/95 "In addition to all of this, we have restarted the effort to produce a flavour of Ubuntu that includes no proprietary drivers or firmware at all. In fact, this flavour will take an ultra-conservative approach to all forms of content on the .iso, whether that be artistic or code. More on that initiative later."
[07:26] <sid> Does this mean there will be a new release with Feisty? ie Edubuntu/Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu .. and now a free ubuntu or something? Fubuntu? So an all free Ubuntu will release with the rest in April?
[07:29] <LaserJock> I don't think it's quite like that, but I could be wrong
[07:30] <Fujitsu> That sounds like gNewSense to me.
[07:31] <sid> LaserJock: Is there a page about this "flavor of Ubuntu"? I couldn't find it on ubuntu.com anywhere
[07:31] <LaserJock> well, he once wrote about a gnubuntu or something like that
[07:32] <LaserJock> I think gNewSense is basically that now
[07:35] <sid> but it says "we have restarted the effort to produce", so it implies it will be from Ubuntu.com; Do any of the devs in here know about this flavor? or was he speaking about the distant future? or for the next release cycle?
[07:39] <pitti> Good morning
[07:42] <dholbach> heya pitti
[07:43] <pitti> hey dholbach 
[08:52] <bluefoxicy> wait what the fuck
[08:52] <bluefoxicy> oh, wrong matt, nvm.
[09:09] <Mithrandir> sid: I haven't seen that before, but it's not something we are going for this cycle.  We are post feature freeze now.
[09:11] <sid> Mithrandir: ok. thanks for the information. I appreciate the help.
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: any OMGskyisfalling trouble with X yet? works fine here so far (but there's no new server yet)
[09:23] <seb128> pitti: the server is OMGskyisfalling
[09:23] <seb128> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/xorg-server/ if you want to try
[09:24] <seb128> xorg doesn't start on i810 for dholbach with it (from friday)
[09:24] <seb128> and I had EXA enabled for my radon, with it swimming windows take 10 seconds with high CPU ise
[09:24] <seb128> use
[09:25] <pitti> seb128: would it even be worth the trouble to build amd64 packages? (I can do that now if you want)
[09:25] <tepsipakki> seb128: oh, so you had "some" issues with it :)
[09:25] <seb128> tepsipakki: didn't you read the chan? ;)
[09:25] <seb128> hi tepsipakki
[09:26] <tepsipakki> yeah, hi
[09:26] <pitti> seb128: and it doens't get better with the accompanying 7.2 drivers either?
[09:26] <seb128> pitti: wait, I want to discuss a patch with tepsipakki first
[09:26] <pitti> sure
[09:26] <seb128> pitti: dunno, we do incremental updates
[09:26] <seb128> I didn't try drivers updates yet
[09:26] <tepsipakki> seb128: only quickly, since I've been sick since I left on Friday..
[09:26] <tepsipakki> so my head isn't working right
[09:26] <seb128> tepsipakki: #ubuntu-x
[09:26] <tepsipakki> yep
[09:26] <seb128> ah :/
[09:26] <seb128> we can talk about that later if you want
[09:27] <tepsipakki> no lets just get on with it, I'm feeling better compared to yesterday
[09:41] <seb128> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/xorg-server/, amd64 build would be welcome
[09:41] <pitti> seb128: doing now
[09:41] <seb128> I'll upload i386 debs soon
[09:42] <seb128> then testing of them will be welcome ;)
[09:46] <fabbione> seb128, tepsipakki: xorg server is always best done in combo with drivers
[09:46] <fabbione> before you start patching to fix stuff around
[09:46] <fabbione> even if they are incremental updates, server and drivers retain an ABI together
[09:46] <seb128> fabbione: ok, thanks for the hint
[09:46] <fabbione> so i suggest you prepare and test all of them at once
[09:47] <fabbione> and if it works, push it
[09:48] <tepsipakki> fabbione: the ABI hasn't changed AFAIK..
[09:48] <fabbione> tepsipakki: AFAIK != sure.. you need to make 200% sure
[09:48] <fabbione> or you will get random crashes
[09:48] <fabbione> in some obscure code
[09:49] <tepsipakki> heh
[09:49] <tepsipakki> maybe I trust XSF too much ;)
[09:50] <seb128> Debian did update the server and not the drivers yet
[09:50] <fabbione> seb128: note that debian has that stuff in experimental..
[09:50] <fabbione> so they are allowed to break things there
[09:50] <fabbione> because sid is more stable than stable in debian
[09:51] <fabbione> and Debian used to have a different ABI/API IIRC
[09:51] <fabbione> not sure now
[09:51] <fabbione> pitti: do you have a list of pkgs that needs the maintainer field changed somewhere?
[09:52] <fabbione> pitti: i am curious to see if there is any of mine that needs love
[09:52] <seb128> updating the drivers would be nice anyway
[09:52] <pitti> fabbione: it's quick to generate, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaintainerFieldRebuilds
[09:52] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[09:52] <pitti> fabbione: I just uploaded another 12 from the top of the list
[09:52] <fabbione> thanks
[09:56] <fabbione> pitti: btw.. you want to make sure to do that check per architecture.. not all packages are on all arches
[09:56] <fabbione> and we might miss a few
[09:56] <pitti> fabbione: right, I'll do those as well
[09:57] <fabbione> pitti: danke
[09:57] <fabbione> Her General!
[09:57] <pitti> *tsk*
[10:16] <hunger> Is there a reason for aptitude to install linux-image-debug-2.6.20-9-server when upgrading linux-source-2.6.20?
[10:18] <ajmitch> morning jono 
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: new x server works for me (2D/OpenGL/XV) with nvidia driver
[10:19] <seb128> pitti: good, thank you ;)
[10:20] <jono> hey
[10:20] <dholbach> seb128: happy
[10:20] <seb128> dholbach: it works on i810?
[10:20] <dholbach> seb128: yep
[10:21] <seb128> brilliant ;)
[10:21] <dholbach> :-)
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: works fine with nv driver as well
[10:22] <seb128> good
[10:22] <tepsipakki> I should probably read the forum thread about my xorg-packages to see if there is anything new..
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: if you need more testing, I can build it on powerpc and test with radeon
[10:23] <seb128> pitti: any testing is welcome but don't bother too much for that
[10:23] <pitti> heeey, the new X server finally fixes the comb effect of XV on nv
[10:23] <pitti> that means I can finally watch videos with the free driver again! \o/
[10:23] <Fujitsu> pitti: Comb effect?
[10:24] <pitti> Fujitsu: whenever I scaled a video, I got huge comb-like image distortions
[10:24] <pitti> Fujitsu: this worked until Hoary, then in breezy it broke, I filed a bug upstream, no answer, and now it's fixed again
[10:25] <Fujitsu> At least it's fixed :)
[10:25] <StevenK> pitti: Is it screenshotable? I'm curious now.
[10:26] <pitti> StevenK: well, with a digicam :) I had a screenshot attached on the upstream bug, a minute
[10:26] <StevenK> Oooh, a dbmail upload.
[10:26] <StevenK> Maybe it won't FTBFS on Feisty now.
[10:27] <StevenK> pitti: Sure.
[10:27] <pitti> StevenK: freedesktop bug 4686
[10:27] <Ubugtu> Freedesktop bug 4686 in Driver/nVidia (open) "comb effect with nv driver (GeForce Fx 5200)" [Normal,New]  http://bugzilla.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4686
[10:28] <StevenK> Right, UVFe for dbmail it is.
[10:28] <StevenK> pitti: Way cool. :-)
[10:28] <pitti> StevenK: rather not :/
[10:29] <pitti> StevenK: it was the only thing that kept me from using the free driver
[10:29] <pitti> StevenK: and now it's the general desktop sluggishness that was introduced a week ago or so
[10:30] <StevenK> pitti: Ah, so now you can watch movies, but the whole desktop is sluggish? Ugh.
[10:31] <Fujitsu> I have no Composite, but other than that 1.2 seems to work OK.
[10:31] <pitti> argh, no, comb effect is still there; I didn't scale the other test movie
[10:32] <ajmitch> how unfortunate
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: scp is horribly slow for me at the moment, uploading the amd64 debs will still take a while
[10:34] <seb128> pitti: ok
[10:36] <pitti> seb128: do you happen to have an un-retraced amd64 crash at hand which I could use to test my shiny new fakechroot apport-retrace stuff?
[10:36] <seb128> pitti: bug #87538
[10:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87538 in control-center "[apport]  gnome-keyboard-properties crashed with SIGSEGV in g_list_foreach()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87538
[10:36] <seb128> pitti: I've a ppc one also I kept on my "unread" list if you want ;)
[10:38] <dholbach> we should tag bugs as <arch>-needs-retrace  :-))
[10:41] <seb128> dholbach: good idea
[10:42] <dholbach> seb128: i'll document it in on the bugsquad/tags page later
[10:42] <dholbach> hey thom
[10:42] <seb128> thank you
[10:42] <seb128> hi thom
[10:43] <thom> heyhey
[10:43] <Mithrandir> how was the skiing?
[10:44] <thom> ace :-) 
[10:44] <Mithrandir> good to hear. :-)
[10:45] <ajmitch> hi thom, Mithrandir 
[10:45] <Mithrandir> hiya Andrew
[10:45] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: did you get a chance to look at that f-spot UVF exception?
[10:45] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: no, sorry.  Where?
[10:46] <Mithrandir> I've managed to miss it completely enough that I can't remember having seen anything about it at all
[10:46] <pitti> dholbach: indeed such a tag would be nice, then my fakechroot system could walk the list, retrace them, and remove the tag
[10:46] <pitti> dholbach: or, if tag mangling is not possible with email comments, we can use a retracing-<arch> team
[10:46] <ajmitch> probably because I just gave you an url to a debdiff in here earlier - filed bug 87927 earlier
[10:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87927 in f-spot "UVF exception for f-spot 0.3.4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87927
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[10:46] <seb128> pitti: np
[10:47] <dholbach> pitti: both'd work for me
[10:47] <ajmitch> we've switched to using the packaged ndesk-dbus libs now, thankfully
[10:48] <pitti> dholbach: https://help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneEmail doesn't talk about tags, so let's use team subscriptions
[10:48] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: looks good to me.
[10:48] <ajmitch> ok
[10:48] <ajmitch> thanks
[10:48] <dholbach> pitti: I think that tags were created after that document
[10:50] <pitti> dholbach: /me asks Bjorn
[10:51] <dholbach> pitti: you beat me to it
[10:56] <gpocentek> good morning
[10:56] <ajmitch> good morning gpocentek 
[10:56] <gpocentek> hi ajmitch 
[10:56] <ajmitch> dholbach: I saw your email about the MC meeting clashing with TB?
[10:57] <gpocentek> thunar-volman-plugin binary has not been published, could an archive admin tell me what's happening?
[10:57] <gpocentek> also I've uploaded a new xfwm4 package and got no mail (no Accepted, no Rejected)
[10:57] <dholbach> ajmitch: robitaille just wanted to let us know that there's the possibility of clashing, if we stick to the same time and date
[10:57] <gpocentek> and the upload doesn't show up on LP
[10:58] <dholbach> hiya gpocentek
[10:58] <ajmitch> dholbach: does the TB time rotate at all now?
[10:58] <dholbach> ajmitch: no idea
[10:58] <ajmitch> hm
[10:58] <ajmitch> I'm sure we can agree on some other time if needed :)
[10:59] <dholbach> atm it's ok
[11:01] <pitti> dholbach: teams it shall be then, no tag manipulation per email
[11:01] <dholbach> ok
[11:10] <fabbione> does "Cristian Aravena Romero" IRC?
[11:11] <ajmitch> caravena
[11:11] <fabbione> thanks
[11:11] <ajmitch> is he still updating bug reports?
[11:11] <fabbione> yes
[11:11] <fabbione> a sparc bug assigned to him
[11:11] <fabbione> cool
[11:12] <fabbione> ajmitch: has he been kicked out somehow?
[11:12] <ajmitch> not afaik, just been spoken to
[11:12] <fabbione> ok
[11:14] <slomo> Mithrandir: hi :) can you take a look at #86982? again a new bugfix-only release of liferea...
[11:30] <seb128> where is doko when you need him? ;)
[11:31] <ajmitch> is ogra still away as well?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> slomo: looks reasonable to me.
[11:46] <pitti> mvo_: do you have some time to throw an eagle eye on SRU bug 85394?
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85394 in tzdata "New timezone data 2007b" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85394
[11:46] <pitti> mvo_: we should really push this out before start of March
[11:57] <pitti> Riddell: can you confirm bug 87757? the .po file in the edgy langpacks seems to be fine
[11:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87757 in apport "apport-qt seems to have problem with UTF-8" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87757
[11:58] <pitti> Riddell: (the bug is for feisty, but the langpacks in feisty are still from edgy)
[11:59] <pitti> Riddell: hm, indeed, I get it as well
[12:01] <Riddell> pitti: wouldn't entirely surprise me, pyqt has some strange behaviour with unicode strings
[12:01] <Riddell> pitti: it's entirely fixable though, I just need to copy the code from ubiquity or dist-upgrade tool or whatever
[12:01] <pitti> Riddell: hm, any idea how to circumvent this?
[12:01] <pitti> ah
[12:02] <Riddell> pitti: it just needs the right combination of casting from one string type to another, can't remember it off hand
[12:03] <pitti> Riddell: ah, this might be the same issue as in bug 87753
[12:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87753 in apport "apport-qt system tray icon doesn't work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87753
[12:03] <pitti> Riddell: I'll have a look in the dist-upgrader
[12:03] <pitti> Riddell: that's adept-updater?
[12:04] <mvo_> pitti: I haven't done any SRU processing yet
[12:04] <mvo_> pitti: but I can have a look now
[12:04] <slomo> Mithrandir: thanks
[12:04] <Riddell> pitti: yes, that'll be the same issue
[12:35] <seb128> Mithrandir: any objection to update xorg-server to 7.2? It got testing from a bunch of people with different cards already
[12:36] <jwendell> seb128, it was uploaded already, not? i'm using it...
[12:36] <Hobbsee> jwendell: not all of it
[12:36] <seb128> jwendell: no, maybe you are using the package from tepsipakki?
[12:36] <seb128> or the one I uploaded on people.ubuntu.com?
[12:37] <jwendell> seb128, i'm using packages from feisty...
[12:37] <seb128> jwendell: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-core?
[12:37] <jwendell> xserver-xorg-core:
[12:37] <jwendell>   Installed: 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu14
[12:37] <jwendell>   Candidate: 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu14
[12:37] <seb128> xorg-server for 7.2 is versionned 1.2.0
[12:38] <seb128> 1.1.1 is xorg 7.1
[12:38] <jwendell> seb128, ok... but  apt-cache policy xserver-xorg:
[12:38] <jwendell> xserver-xorg:
[12:38] <jwendell>   Installed: 1:7.2-0ubuntu1
[12:38] <jwendell>   Candidate: 1:7.2-0ubuntu1
[12:38] <seb128> xserver-xorg != xorg-server
[12:38] <seb128> xserver-xorg has the config scripts, the logic, etc
[12:38] <seb128> xorg-server is the actual xorg server program
[12:39] <jwendell> ahhh, ok
[01:11] <Lathiat> sjoerd: oh dear
[01:11] <Lathiat> sjoerd: anand sent a nice ranty email to lennart & i about nss-mdns/NOTFOUND=return
[01:11] <Lathiat> sjoerd: i don't expect lennart to reply fondly :P
[01:17] <jbjuly>  I have a question about update-inetd, It's installed default by Ubuntu, does it provide inetd already? I search for /etc/init.d/inetd but could not find it.
[01:17] <jbjuly> does update-inetd load inetd? or should I install inetd manually in order for it to work. Why is it installed by default?
[01:17] <kagou> seb128, your xorg packages works great for me with nv or nvidia driver
[01:17] <seb128> kagou: excellent, thank you for testing them
[01:18] <kagou> np
[01:34] <dholbach> gpocentek: did you ever have a chance to look into the new goffice/gnumeric?
[01:34] <gpocentek> dholbach: not yet, but it's on my TODO
[01:34] <gpocentek> I hope I'll get this done today or tomorrow
[01:34] <dholbach> alrighty - just wanted to check
[01:35] <gpocentek> np
[01:39] <jwendell> seb128, if you want, i can try your xorg package. I'm using i810-modesetting in my laptop, in order to get 1280x800
[01:40] <mr_pouit> jwendell, is 1280*800 natively set, or is 915resolution still needed ?
[01:40] <jwendell> mr_pouit, with this driver, 915resolution is not needed anymore
[01:40] <mr_pouit> great :)
[01:54] <dholbach> kwwii: i'll move the artwork packages over to python-distutils-extra and native packaging one by one now - if you do changes to them be sure to pull changes before
[01:54] <seb128> jwendell: you are welcome to test them, http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/xorg-server/
[02:04] <sistpoty> Mithrandir: can you please route supertux-stable through new? it's the same version known as supertux from unstable (where our supertux is from experimental, however upstream strongly advised us to ship the stable version as well)
[02:05] <jwendell> seb128, what should i write to sources.list? 
[02:06] <seb128> jwendell: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/xorg ./
[02:06] <seb128> ups
[02:07] <seb128> change xorg with xorg-server
[02:07] <jwendell> seb128, ok
[02:13] <jwendell> seb128, it worked. I ran glxgears and had that output:
[02:14] <jwendell> wendell@wendell-laptop:~$ glxgears 
[02:14] <jwendell> libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x5b
[02:14] <jwendell> 3789 frames in 5.0 seconds = 757.655 FPS
[02:14] <jwendell> 4085 frames in 5.0 seconds = 816.912 FPS
[02:14] <jwendell> 5835 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1166.800 FPS
[02:14] <jwendell> 3831 frames in 5.0 seconds = 766.159 FPS
[02:14] <jwendell> XIO:  fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":0.0"
[02:14] <jwendell>       after 147 requests (146 known processed) with 0 events remaining.
[02:14] <jwendell> seb128, last message appeared when i closed the app
[02:15] <seb128> jwendell: good, minor bugs like that can be fixed later (fedora has some patches that might fix that)
[02:27] <kwwii> dholbach: cool, will do
[03:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: around? that's about the xorg question I asked you before, having a reply would be nice
[03:28] <bddebian> Heya
[03:36] <spike> hi there
[03:37] <spike> ubuntu-boot is dead so thought I'd asked here: what are supposed to be the numbers in partman expert_recipe? ie "40 50 100 ext3 $primary{ } $bootable{ }....", what are those 40 50 100?
[03:37] <tepsipakki> spike: read the docs
[03:37] <spike> I would guessed fdisk like sectors but uhm, 40 50 100 makes very little sense
[03:37] <tepsipakki> it's there
[03:38] <spike> right, I'll try again then
[03:38] <spike> tepsipakki: do you mean the -install doc?
[03:39] <spike> k, sorted, ta
[03:47] <vignatti_> hey guys
[03:47] <vignatti_> can anyone point me how to submit a package to ubuntu?
[03:48] <bddebian> Submit a package or request one?
[03:48] <vignatti_> yeah, request
[03:48] <Adri2000> request: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
[03:49] <vignatti_> tkx Adri2000
[04:27] <spike> hi again. any idea why when preseeding keyboard input wouldnt work at all? I've never had this issue. I'm passing kbd-chooser/method=uk as boot param which did solve a problem when it was complaining about keyboard not being detected
[04:28] <spike> I'm connected via serial console, against a server's pahntom
[04:29] <spike> after solving some issues I got to the point where it cant detect the network... god knows why since it booted correctly, but anyway, it prompts me to press continue which I cant
[04:30] <spike> I dont think it's either kermit or the phantom, 'cause I can either detach or reboot the server (altho the phantom's menu wont ever be displayed)
[04:31] <spike> the serial console is setup as console=ttyS1,9600 --, which I guess is right otherwise I wouldnt see all the stuff I see (full boot process + preseeding screens)
[04:31] <seb128> if somebody has a reason to not update xorg-server to 7.2 now speak
[04:31] <seb128> otherwise I'm going to upload
[04:31] <ogra> or shut up forever :)
[04:31] <pitti> or be without X for all times
[04:31] <ogra> right
[04:32] <seb128> ogra: no, you can still complain later but the upload will be done :p
[04:32] <seb128> pitti: GetRideOfTheDesktop, next step coming ;)
[04:33] <ajmitch> ogra: well, I have f-spot build-depending on gnome-screensaver now, to get the right paths from pkg-config
[04:34] <ogra> oh, nice 
[04:34] <ajmitch> yeah, so next time upstream changes I don't have to go digging
[04:39] <mvo__> seb128: btw, have ypu seen bug #87947 ?
[04:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87947 in libxcb "xcb_xlib.c:50: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87947
[04:39] <seb128> mvo__: that's a duplicate, I'm going to close it, thank you
[04:39] <mvo__> seb128: thanks
[04:40] <seb128> that's not a bug from that lib
[04:40] <seb128> that's likely to be a bug from nvidia-glx
[04:40] <seb128> the lock problems are due to libs
[04:40] <seb128> most of xorg libs have been fixed
[04:40] <seb128> nvidia-glx divert mesa though
[04:40] <seb128> and seems to be bugged
[04:40] <mvo__> seb128: ok
[04:43] <mvo__> seb128: OTOH I would not been suprised if e.g. im libs have not been fixed yet, what do you think? and still have locking issues?
[04:43] <seb128> mvo__: I'm installing the package, a sec
[04:44] <seb128> #8  0xb7d86962 in _XReply (dpy=0x8097358, rep=0xbfa66384, extra=0, discard=1)
[04:44] <seb128>     at ../../src/xcb_io.c:364
[04:44] <seb128> #9  0xb7d65c8c in _XGetWindowAttributes (dpy=0x8097358, w=62914593, 
[04:44] <seb128>     attr=0xbfa663e8) at ../../src/GetWAttrs.c:116
[04:44] <seb128> #10 0xb7da3551 in _XimGetWindowEventmask (ic=0x80bfe68)
[04:44] <seb128>     at ../../../../modules/im/ximcp/imDefLkup.c:469
[04:44] <seb128> hum
[04:45] <seb128> then that's not the nvidia bug
[04:48] <mvo__> seb128: I except we will get quite a few problem reposts like this because of xcb locking error detection
[04:49] <seb128> "expect"?
[04:49] <seb128> yeah, probably
[04:49] <seb128> though most of the xorg (maybe all of them) have been fixed
[04:49] <mvo__> right
[04:49] <seb128> and there is probably few apps playing with xorg locks like that
[04:49] <mvo__> yeah, mostly toolkits I would imagine
[05:01] <mantiena> Hi all
[05:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: xorg-server 7.2> go ahead.
[05:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, thank you
[05:06] <mantiena> seb128: hi, are you responsible for Gnome control center and gnome-panel ?
[05:07] <seb128> mantiena: hi, sort of, why?
[05:12] <seb128> mantiena: pong?
[05:17] <mantiena> seb128:  There are one  regression-usability problem in Ubuntu Feisty
[05:18] <seb128> the control-center shell will be replaced by the menus again with the updates coming from the new GNOME
[05:18] <mantiena> seb128: *all* Ubuntu versions had System->Preferences and System->Administration submenus, but not these menus gone :(
[05:19] <seb128> that's not because Ubuntu used to be a way that it can't change
[05:19] <seb128> we will change back to menus for that cycle because the shell has still problems at the moment
[05:19] <seb128> it'll likely be the default next cycle
[05:20] <seb128> and you can get those menus by unmasking them with alacarte
[05:25] <mantiena> seb128: now I'm talking only about next release (Feisty). In any case, I think one "control panel" button should be in slab (gnome-main-menu applet), but in top gnome-menu should be expandable submenus, it's easier
[05:25] <mantiena> and faster to access needed function
[05:25] <seb128> mantiena: I'm talking about feisty as well
[05:25] <dholbach> i personally like the shell better
[05:25] <seb128> mantiena: we don't use slab
[05:26] <mantiena> seb128: but I see some specifications about slab in blueprint.launchpad.net
[05:27] <dholbach> some specifications are not targetted for feisty or deferred or written by people who are not part of the active development community
[05:27] <seb128> mantiena: the specification speaks about having it on the CD, not using it by default
[05:28] <mantiena> dholbach: important thing is compability with previous versions, if ubuntu will choose not to use submenus, then  this mode should be used only for new installations, and submenus should be left  if user upgrades from old versions,  alsothere should be ability to easy switch between  control conter in one window and submenus modes
[05:29] <seb128> mantiena: it's easy, open the menu editor and unhide them
[05:29] <dholbach> alacarte should in my opinion be easy enough to switch
[05:30] <mantiena> seb128: Yea, I understood this, thanks for info, btw, when Ubuntu Feisty will have submenus as default ?
[05:30] <seb128> mantiena: did you read what I wrote?
[05:30] <seb128> today or tomorrow
[05:31] <seb128> with the new GNOME we are packaging
[05:31] <dholbach> Mithrandir: can you take a look at bug 86305?
[05:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86305 in gthumb "UVF exception: gthumb 2.9.2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86305
[05:36] <spike> hi, preseeding again. it seems that with the old breezy the number of boot params possible was <=8 
[05:36] <spike> I've googled for it and the only ref I found is to kernel <= 2.6.9 being limited to 32
[05:37] <spike> altho if I have more than 8 things on my boot line for pxe, the last one will be cut off
[05:37] <spike> namely the serial console one
[05:37] <tepsipakki> there's a limit for characters
[05:38] <mantiena> seb128: thank you very much
[05:39] <iwj> pitti: Sorry, that autopkgtest upload I did didn't ship all of the docs in the .debs.  This is fixed in 0.7.1.
[05:40] <iwj> Also I added adt-virt-null for your comfort and non-root-playing convenience.
[05:40] <pitti> iwj: ah, sweet!
[05:42] <spike> tepsipakki: thanks
[05:43] <seb128> mantiena: np
[05:44] <iwj> pitti: Have you looked at adt-run(1) yet ?
[05:44] <pitti> iwj: not yet, sorry, I was busy with some other things today
[05:52] <tkamppeter> pitti, ping
[05:52] <pitti> hi tkamppeter 
[05:52] <tkamppeter> hi pitti
[05:53] <tkamppeter> I want to talk with you about whether to get rid of this /usr/lib/cups/backend-available/ and leave all backends directly in /usr/lib/cups/backend/
[05:53] <spike> Failed to load the preconfiguration file <-- I get that error. how can I find out what's wrong with it?
[05:53] <tkamppeter> To make it easier for the user ...
[05:54] <spike> being the partman recipe the only thing I added I spose it's that one, but cant see nothing wrong with it as I used the default example
[05:54] <spike> just changed ext3 -> reiserfs and the size of /
[05:54] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'd like to avoid carrying another delta to Debian for that; it should be much easier to enable additional backends that we want?
[05:55] <tkamppeter> So this backend-available comes from Debian?
[06:04] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes
[06:04] <pitti> tkamppeter: so that users can enable/disable them easily
[06:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, the backends currently disabled by this mechanism are snmp, serial, and scsi. I would like to at least enable snmp, as it makes it much easier for users to set up their network printers, for example with the CUPS web interface (but probably also wioth most other printer setup tools).
[06:06] <Mirv> Mithrandir: should you consider that fix/workaround for the bug 22985 I mentioned before herd 5? bug 63503 also has a link to a patch in debian's bugzilla that fixes hangs with radeon 9200 + 3D.
[06:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 22985 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[x700]  fails to infer lvds for primary connector on acer ferrari 4005 | card detected, but driver fails to use right output port" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/22985
[06:06] <pitti> tkamppeter: we can do that if it's sane; I just heard from various places (Debian lists) that it's not a good thing by default
[06:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63503 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "graphics lockups with radeon DRI" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63503
[06:09] <tkamppeter> pitti, what are the problems caused by snmp?
[06:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: I don't know, I have never used it (nor would I be able to test it), the discussion just came up at the Debian list and Kenshi decided not to enable it by default; I'd need to search the archives
[06:14] <tkamppeter> I had it always active as I made packages for Mandriva 2007 last year and there were no reports about problems. In the last months Mike Sweet has also fixed the problems which occured with certain brands of printers. So currently snmp should be in a good shape.
[06:14] <Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
[06:14] <tkamppeter> Ubugtu, shut up!
[06:15] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok, let's enable it then
[06:15] <pitti> tkamppeter: but please get Mithrandir's ack, since it is a feature
[06:16] <tkamppeter> Are there also reasons why serial and scsi are disabled? serial I have disabled years ago in Mandriva because the detection process of serial ports was slow, but I do not know whether this is still the case.
[06:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: I don't have a particular reason; we just inherited that from Debian
[06:19] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, can we enable the CUPS snmp backend by default? It will give us auto-detection of network printers for free in all printer setup tools (gnome-cups-manager, CUPS web interface, KDE Print Manager, ...).
[06:20] <tkamppeter> Currently, it is very stable and reliable, Mike Sweet has fixed several incompatibilities with certain printer brands and so it detects nearly every network printer and its preferred protocol and correct URI.
[06:21] <sabdfl> tkamppeter: is this an open, listening port by default you want?
[06:23] <tkamppeter> No, the snmp backend is not a daemon. I searches the local network for printers by accessing the printer's SNMP port. It does not listen or wait for events, and it is only executed when CUPS is asked to auto-detect printers. It is not executed to do the actual printing.
[06:25] <elmo> tkamppeter: how does it search the local network?  ping every IP in the network range?
[06:44] <tkamppeter_> elmo, my connection got interrupted, now I will answer your question again.
[06:44] <tkamppeter_> elmo, the snmp backend does SNMP broadcast. It asks for the printer MIB and so it gets only answers from printers
[06:44] <tkamppeter_> And it only broadcasts into the local network(s), not into the internet (this is also configurable)
[07:15] <alexmac> hi people, how do I request that an ubuntu package is updated? wacom-tools is rather out of date and I'd like it updated so that people can use my tablet configuration applet: http://alexmac.cc/tablet-apps
[07:16] <LaserJock> alexmac: we are past Upstream Version Freeze.
[07:18] <alexmac> so when will it next get upgraded?
[07:18] <LaserJock> the release after Feisty
[07:19] <alexmac> ahh, ok
[07:20] <shawarma> Is infinity on holiday or something?
[08:04] <sabdfl> mdz: what time is the tb meeting tomorrow?
[08:04] <kwwii> anyone here "in the know" with Yelp?
[08:05] <mdz> sabdfl: 2000 UTC
[08:05] <mdz> shawarma: I'm not sure, he might be.  are you having trouble getting responses from him?
[08:06] <sabdfl> mdz: i can be there
[08:06] <mdz> sabdfl: ok, we'll have quorum then
[08:08] <mjg59> I ought to be there
[08:09] <Riddell> kwwii: #ubuntu-doc might be a better bet
[08:10] <tenco> what script spawns this process? : "/bin/dd bs 1 if /proc/kmsg of /var/run/klogd/kmsg"
[08:10] <tenco> it's heavy on disk io for several minutes
[08:11] <mdz> tenco: klogd
[08:11] <mdz> if it's busy, it's because the kernel is logging messages
[08:13] <tenco> i dont get it. /var/run/klogd/kmsg has a size of 0 bytes
[08:13] <tenco> such high disk io cant be from logging. and then /var/run/klogd/kmsg should be a huge file
[08:14] <LaserJock> kwwii: what do you need?
[08:14] <tenco> whats odd, too: this command is broken. it will not
[08:14] <tenco> ...run
[08:27] <Riddell> pitti: new kdelibs patch up at bug 84717, let me know if that looks good to upload now
[08:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84717 in update-manager "SRU: updates necessary for Kubuntu Upgrade Tool in Edgy" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84717
[08:28] <pitti> Riddell: Ah, will have a look tomorrow, thanks
[08:29] <pitti> Riddell: I'm just trying to figure out how to treat strings for pyqt -- do I have to use the .fromUtf8()/.utf8() methods everywhere?
[08:30] <kwwii> LaserJock: there is a guy in another channel who redesigned the help center, but now he needs help on various points which I cannot begin to answer...looking for someone who knows more
[08:30] <LaserJock> redesigned?
[08:31] <LaserJock> kwwii: is that  h4writer_ ?
[08:31] <kwwii> LaserJock: yes, it is
[08:35] <Riddell> pitti: yes, it does seem to need it everywhere
[08:38] <shawarma> mdz: Well yes, but not in general. Just today.
[08:39] <mdz> shawarma: it's the middle of the night where he is at the moment
[08:39] <shawarma> mdz: I know. I pinged him 22 hours ago. :-)
[08:40] <shawarma> pinged? pang? oh well..
[08:42] <shawarma> I've never been to Australia, but AFAICT it must have been day at some point during those 22 hours. :-)
[08:44] <mdz> perhaps he didn't see your message on IRC and you should send email instead
[08:46] <shawarma> That's an idea as well.. I'll do that.
[08:50] <shawarma> mdz: Thanks.
[10:38] <mdz> bug 88134 could use a look from someone more familiar with cdbs
[10:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88134 in python-apt "Package is empty except for documentation" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88134
[10:39] <seb128> mdz: I think mvo has that on his todo, he spoke about it today
[10:40] <mdz> hmm, I looked at the bug list before filing it and didn't see it there
[10:40] <seb128> well he complained about breaking python-apt and not testing before uploading
[10:40] <mdz> it's generating a lot of duplicates by breaking update-notifier
[10:41] <seb128> the fix is easy, either change the destdir for the install or use a .install
[10:41] <seb128> let me look if mvo fixed it to bzr
[10:41] <seb128> I'll fix it otherwise
[10:42] <mdz> looks like cdbs defaults to tmp if it only sees one package
[10:43] <seb128> no
[10:43] <seb128> cdbs use debian/package-name if there is one package
[10:43] <seb128> and debian/tmp otherwise
[10:43] <mdz> oh, right, I read it backwards
[10:43] <seb128> and then we use .install to move them to the different binaries
[10:44] <seb128> or you can set the install dir to debian/rules to be debian/package-name
[10:44] <mdz> python-apt installs the debug bits separately to debian/python-apt-dbg, and leaves the rest in debian/tmp
[10:44] <seb128> doko broke deskbar-applet the same way, I'm wondering how many package he uploaded without trying if they worked
[10:47] <seb128> hum
[10:47] <seb128> mvo did python-apt uploads that afternoon
[10:48] <adam0509> hi
[10:49] <adam0509> I'm a Windows noob coming to linux I want to ask u : why you have removed "disks-admin" from Edgy Eft ? This tool was sooo great !!
[10:50] <doko_> seb128: before you spread fud, please see http://librarian.launchpad.net/6457135/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.python-apt_0.6.20ubuntu6_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[10:50] <doko_> I'm looking at the package now
[10:51] <seb128> doko_: I'm looking as well, and I don't spread fud
[10:58] <mdz> debian/python-apt.install went missing
[10:59] <mdz> -debian/tmp/usr/lib/python*
[10:59] <mdz> -debian/tmp/usr/share/python-apt
[10:59] <seb128> so mvo broke it? ;)
[10:59] <seb128> doko_: sorry, I though you did the same as for deskbar-applet :p
[11:00] <mdz> seb128,doko_: I suspect it wasn't added to bzr
[11:00] <seb128> ah, might be
[11:00] <seb128> mvo was in fact complaining that doko did changes without updating bzr this afternoon IIRC
[11:01] <seb128> and he went to look at the debdiff to update bzr before doing the changes he was working on
[11:01] <seb128> he probably overlooked that
[11:02] <doko_> yeah, it doesn't have a X-vcs header; it's difficult to remember which packages use which vcs
[11:02] <mdz> python-apt isn't on BzrMaintainedPackages
[11:03] <Sp4rKy> hi there
[11:03] <seb128> let's just do an upload with the .install and we will sort with mvo how is python-apt maintained tomorrow
[11:04] <mdz> yep, I'll do so and mail mvo
[11:05] <doko_> hmm, how did he upload 0.6.20ubuntu8 without setting the ubuntu maintainer address?
[11:06] <seb128> doko_: he uses an edgy desktop I think
[11:06] <mdz> seb128: seriously?
[11:06] <seb128> well, he had edgy on his laptop during the Oslo sprint and feisty to vmware
[11:07] <seb128> not sure when he's at home
[11:08] <seb128> I think he has a feisty desktop as well at home
[11:08] <seb128> he might just have built the package from bzr on the laptop or something
[11:34] <stgraber> shawarma: Thank you for working on the NetworkManager VPN bugs, it'll be a really usefull and widely used software once those small "missing features" added
[12:06] <dieman> hrm
[12:06] <dieman> person in my boots back in cs.umn.edu land is seeing this on ubuntu machines:
[12:06] <dieman> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=369536
[12:06] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 369536 in libc6 "netgroup: nis in nsswitch.conf causes libc6 to fail and programs like sudo" [Important,Open]