[09:02] <BHSPitMonkey> ack
[09:02] <BHSPitMonkey> I hope the "show desktop" icon is fixed in feisty
[09:03] <BHSPitMonkey> RE: transparency
[09:03] <Madpilot> Edgy's show desktop icon is smaller than Dapper's - just upgraded and noticed that.
[09:03] <BHSPitMonkey> it's also not transparent.
[09:04] <Madpilot> hadn't noticed that yet.
[09:04] <BHSPitMonkey> it actually has that whole gray background drawn onto it.
[09:04] <BHSPitMonkey> it's really irritating with transparent panels
[09:04] <Madpilot> did notice the round orange file tags in Nautilus - am not impressed.
[09:04] <BHSPitMonkey> yeah
[09:05] <BHSPitMonkey> you think "oh, okay" until you realize that there's none for what you -want-
[09:05] <Madpilot> it's more that they're all the same blasted shape - harder to tell them apart.
[09:05] <Madpilot> this was pointed out on the artwork list ages ago, actually.
[09:06] <Madpilot> while Edgy was still in beta, AFAIK, but it still released with those round useless icons.
[11:30] <nysosym> hi there :)
[11:32] <nysosym> Hi kwwii, do u have improved usplash? :)
[05:19] <nus_iced> hi there!
[05:23] <trurien> anyone know where to get good usplash screens?
[05:46] <fschoep> troy_s: ping
[05:47] <troy_s> wow
[05:47] <troy_s> it's like magic
[05:47] <fschoep> what is?
[05:47] <troy_s> your response to email
[05:50] <kwwii> howdy guys
[05:51] <fschoep> hi ken
[05:51] <kwwii> hi frank, how's things?
[05:51] <fschoep> well, pretty average and all
[05:51] <fschoep> :)
[05:52] <fschoep> how are you?
[05:52] <kwwii> fschoep: busy like a bee ;-)
[05:52] <darkmatter> *yawn*
[05:53] <fschoep> great, sitting around idling is no fun either
[05:53] <kwwii> that is true
[05:54] <fschoep> so, you're now something like AiC for u and ku, right?
[05:54] <kwwii> well, funny enough the title went away I guess
[05:55] <fschoep> you're just it
[05:55] <fschoep> but I mean, that's the idea
[05:55] <kwwii> something like that, yeah
[05:55] <kwwii> probably the best way to get me to use gnome :-)
[05:55] <fschoep> :)
[05:55] <kwwii> winning people over one job at a time
[05:56] <troy_s> ugh
[05:56] <fschoep> it's true though
[05:56] <fschoep> "Former Mac OS X addict kwwii switches to Ubuntu."
[05:56] <kwwii> I don
[05:56] <kwwii> erm
[05:56] <kwwii> I don't judge my opensource software by it's toolkit ;-)
[05:57] <fschoep> :)
[05:58] <darkmatter> kwwii, thats what she said
[05:58] <kwwii> ;-)
[05:58] <troy_s> uh oh... its the bi curious avatar guy.
[06:00] <darkmatter> troy_s, :P
[06:00] <darkmatter> quit making fun of sephiroth!
[06:00] <troy_s> it is like some strange gay pro wrestler.
[06:00] <troy_s> "The Undead Wanna Be Bi Curious Guy"
[06:00] <darkmatter> troy_s, say that to his face!
[06:01] <troy_s> Wholly cow.  This is rather along the lines of "Wilma Flintstone is Hot!"
[06:01] <darkmatter> haha
[06:01] <kwwii> troy_s: so...in order to start the healing process, think you'd like to give a talk on artwork process with a few others? (irc chat really)
[06:02] <kwwii> during the open week thingy
[06:02] <troy_s> kwwii Can't, sorry.
[06:02] <troy_s> kwwii I have another show starting tomorrow etc.
[06:02] <troy_s> kwwii and our maid is coming in etc.
[06:02] <kwwii> troy_s: gotcha, maybe next time
[06:02] <fschoep> ;)
[06:02] <troy_s> kwwii I think you are the guy to deal with that anyways.
[06:03] <kwwii> troy_s: I think it would be done best with people from the community as well
[06:03] <troy_s> No, too forced.
[06:03] <troy_s> if there is going to be a community, it probably needs to be mustered by folks who believe in the plan.
[06:03] <kwwii> otherwise it is me telling people how things are going to be, when a lot of it is still open to discussion
[06:03] <troy_s> and can contribute.
[06:04] <troy_s> Ultimately, I think the truth is probably the wisest.
[06:04] <troy_s> It is, and will be until there is a civil uprising, the way things are.
[06:08] <troy_s> kwwii -- 'still open to discussion' -- i think you would need to explain exactly what that is to the folks...
[06:09] <kwwii> troy_s: there is still a way for community involvement, but the extent needs to be well defined so that we do not make the same mistakes as last time
[06:10] <kwwii> right now, there is no involvement at all, but that fact can change
[06:10] <troy_s> well that's just it... i think that is predicated on the notion that the community will _want_ to flesh out sabdfl's ideas.
[06:10] <kwwii> the situation is like it is now because both sides reacted
[06:10] <troy_s> as far as i can tell from a brief precursory exploration of the forums (granted not the best evaluation ground)
[06:10] <troy_s> it doesn't seem to be the case.
[06:11] <troy_s> there were no 'both' sides...
[06:11] <troy_s> remember -- prior to edgy there was nothingness.
[06:11] <troy_s> a vaccuum
[06:11] <troy_s> sabdfl's expectations were simply to get a product out there, and really that was too short term.
[06:11] <kwwii> yes, and the mistake with edgy was to let everyone think that they could decide whatever they wanted
[06:12] <kwwii> there has to be some form of acceptance
[06:12] <kwwii> even in the topic, "redhat gets it right" while the situation there is nothing like that in ubuntu edgy
[06:14] <troy_s> actually
[06:14] <troy_s> i could care less about who does what
[06:14] <troy_s> if the product is a solid cohesive presentation, i'll be pretty happy with it.
[06:14] <troy_s> if it communicates
[06:14] <troy_s> etc., all is well.
[06:15] <troy_s> that said, i _do_ firmly believe that there is strength in numbers and a gathering of heads.
[06:15] <troy_s> i have seen it work on so many high level projects that it is simply part of my belief structure.
[06:15] <troy_s> and the projects i have seen it work for are worth a helluva lot more than the entire capital involved with ubuntu.
[06:16] <kwwii> definitely...if we wanted to have more involvement people would be making themes now which could be presented in the first rounds for feisty+1
[06:16] <kwwii> then make the decision making process really clear
[06:18] <kwwii> but anyway...I won't go on and on :-)
[06:18] <troy_s> well i personally think that is the only real 'community' element
[06:18] <troy_s> make it easier to get their work into the packages...
[06:18] <troy_s> that said, sabdfl is a stubborn bugger and from what i can see, things aren't going to change
[06:18] <troy_s> i sincerely doubt that he would be able to hire _anyone_ that he didn't know more than.
[06:19] <troy_s> and that attitude will severely cripple the body of work in the long term
[06:19] <troy_s> which is why 'gets it right' is relevant
[06:19] <troy_s> even if you dismiss the work on aesthetic grounds etc... the overarching pattern is solid.
[06:19] <troy_s> further still, it stands a very real chance of 'attracting' people because of the design.  not creating an overwhelming sense of 'meh'.
[06:20] <troy_s> one would hope that a pattern will generate a visceral response -- love it or hate it.  the fence is the worst place to sit.
[06:24] <troy_s> Anywho... I would suggest you exert your judgement kwwii and rally the community if that is required.  If it isn't, just plod along and meet sabdfl's expectations.  I got to jet.  Send me an email if you get some thoughts on the issues at hand.
[06:24] <troy_s> Chat soon my friends.