[12:13] <gilligan_> Hobbsee, actually i am not even sure if this scenario is supposed to be supported.. will dmraid be included in feisty final?
[12:13] <Hobbsee> no idea
[12:13] <Hobbsee> hence the bugtracker might
[12:13] <gilligan_> right,ok
[12:13] <Hobbsee> if it's not now, it's either a feature that isnt going to be done in time, most likely (as we're past feature freeze), or it's a bug, ie, it's supposed to work, but is broken.
[12:14] <gilligan_> okay well then i am pretty sure that it's not going to be in there.. had to install dmraid manually
[12:15] <gilligan_> and consequently grub doesn't get the right instructions to set up the device
[12:15] <gilligan_> well maybe it'll work with my manual tweaking
[12:16] <gilligan_> off to #ubuntu+1
[12:16] <gilligan_> thanks again (and sorry..)
[12:16] <ogra> dmraid was never in main
[12:16] <ogra> hmm ... to late
[12:23] <doko> seb128: vfb-run /usr/bin/make -C build-2.4 check
[12:23] <doko> xvfb-run: error: xauth command not found
[12:23] <doko> make: *** [build-2.4/build-stamp]  Error 3
[12:23] <doko> I didn't touch the check target
[12:23] <seb128> doko: that's an xorg-server bug, fix waiting for moderator ...
[12:23] <seb128> Mithrandir is not around apparently
[12:24] <seb128> doko: xvfb lacks a Depends on xauth
[12:24] <doko> yes, seen as well
[12:26] <seb128> cjwatson: could you reject the gnome-python upload waiting for freeze approval?
[12:27] <seb128> and maybe accept the xorg-server one (add Depends xvfb which have been dropped)
[12:27] <cjwatson> you should be able to do the reject at least ...
[12:27] <seb128> hum
[12:27] <cjwatson> but I've done it
[12:27] <cjwatson> q -Q unapproved reject gnome-python
[12:27] <seb128> I've not even though to do freeze work
[12:27] <doko> seb128: why reject, rebuild should be ok?
[12:27] <seb128> ok, thanks
[12:28] <cjwatson> it's not really freeze work as such - rejects are safe
[12:28] <seb128> doko: 0ubuntu3 has your patch and it breaks the non debug version
[12:28] <seb128> cjwatson: right, I will do that myself next time ;)
[12:28] <seb128> thank you
[12:29] <cjwatson> seb128: accepted xorg-server, looks fine
[12:29] <seb128> thank you
[12:29] <seb128> doko: 
[12:29] <seb128> $ python -c "import gconf"
[12:29] <seb128> Traceback (most recent call last):
[12:29] <seb128>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
[12:29] <seb128> ImportError: /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0/gconf.so: undefined symbol: _Py_RefTotal
[12:29] <doko> frumble
[12:29] <doko> grumble
[12:30] <seb128> the patch looks fine though, I'm wondering why it's doing that
[12:31] <doko> hmm, I see, dh_install is called twice with different sourcedirs; should add -N *-dbg, and -p *-NOTDBG as args. checking ...
[12:32] <seb128> ah, right
[12:32] <robertj> are gtk input methods being deprecated for uim?
[12:32] <seb128> probably no need of -N
[12:32] <seb128> just -p binary should be enough
[12:32] <seb128> robertj: no idea
[12:34] <robertj> im-hangul seems to have dissapeared, which is of no great consequence because it has a replacement in uim I believe, but im-classicalgreek is unmaintained and does not
[12:46] <wasabi_> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
[12:46] <wasabi_> who invented that and how do I turn it off?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> you cant.  
[12:48] <wasabi_> bah.
[12:48] <Hobbsee> it's discussed on hte ubuntu devel ML, about maintainer fields
[12:48] <wasabi_> it's a bit flawed.
[12:48] <Hobbsee> if you want to read the thread (and associated spec), you're welcome.
[12:48] <wasabi_> I'm adding my personal local changes to an ubuntu deviated package... so my version is basically... 1ubuntu1wasabi1
[12:48] <jdong> wasabi: change Maintainer: to an @ubuntu.com address
[12:48] <jdong> and it'll be happy again.
[12:48] <wasabi_> sure. make one up.
[12:48] <jdong> yeah
[12:48] <wasabi_> "bah"
[12:48] <jdong> :)
[12:48] <jdong> screwthispolicy@ubuntu.com
[12:48] <jdong> there.
[12:48] <jdong> use that.
[12:48] <Hobbsee> wasabi_: that works.  ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com also works
[12:48] <Hobbsee> which is what most are changing to
[12:48] <wasabi_> Well, since it's a company internal package, I'd rather have MY address there. ;)
[12:48] <sistpoty> wasn't there some upstream switch?
[12:48] <wasabi_> -W should at least disable it.
[12:49] <wasabi_> I have an overlay repository at the office.
[12:49] <wasabi_> And I regularily fix minor things or tweak things and introduce new versions.
[12:49] <wasabi_> Makes sense to have the contact address be me.
[12:49] <jdong> wasabi: I totally agree with you :)
[12:53] <wasabi_> This has almost motivated me to being vocal... almost.
[12:53] <wasabi_> But not quite. =(
[12:53] <mooey> shout it from the rooftop
[12:53] <wasabi_> I should put together a system which automatically builds packages including specific CVS revision numbers from upstream...  So I can just jump to some web form someplace and type '123:124'
[12:54] <idn> hi i was wondering if someone could help me point where im going wrong, im trying to set up anjuta to start hacking on my school project, im developing a gnome app. I need the dbus bindings so I include '#include <dbus/dbus.h>' but i get a warning saying there is no such file or directory. I have install the dbus-dev package so i cant seem to figure out what is wrong
[12:59] <wasabi_> Not exactly an appropriate question for this channel.  (but you need to specify -I to gcc)
[12:59] <mooey> idn, this isn't a support channel
[12:59] <mooey> please consult the topic
[12:59] <idn> ok
[01:15] <mjg59> What happened to wine?
[01:15] <mjg59> Oh. 64-bit. Doh.
[01:15] <sabdfl> we dwunk it
[01:15] <Gacoment> compile wine cvs
[01:16] <kylem> sabdfl, lol.
[01:44] <jdong> cjwatson: do you think ubuntu-archive can process backports this Friday or whenever the next archive-day is?
[01:44] <jdong> it's been a while, once again
[01:46] <cjwatson> wasabi_: I agree with you that there should be a way to turn it off
[01:47] <cjwatson> jdong: mail whoever's archive day it is as a reminder, maybe
[01:47] <jdong> cjwatson: how do I determine whose archive day it is?
[01:47] <cjwatson> jdong: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-February/000250.html
[01:48] <jdong> cjwatson: thanks
[02:24] <xstasi> hi
[02:24] <xstasi> http://rafb.net/p/kWm1jy82.html
[02:24] <xstasi> running feisty fawn on powerpc, herd 4
[02:24] <xstasi> happens with any file, both mplayer and mplayer-nogui
[02:25] <xstasi> to who should i report this? you or mplayer?
[02:28] <mjg59> crimsun: I've attached a patch that gets speakers working for me here
[02:28] <bdmurray> Riddell: ping
[02:29] <bddebian> Heya
[02:50] <xstasi> any developer?
[02:53] <thelsdj> aww, does migration assistant not import accounts from edgy? that seems kinda silly maybe feature just isn't complete :)
[02:55] <Adri2000> xstasi: hmm
[02:56] <Adri2000> xstasi: bug #85550
[02:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85550 in mplayer "mplayer fails to decode mp3 audio on ppc" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85550
[02:57] <xstasi> oh
[02:57] <xstasi> i was just filling in reportbug
[02:58] <xstasi> let's hope someone takes care about it
[02:58] <xstasi> it's a serious bug
[02:58] <Adri2000> xstasi: if you want to help, provide the informations requested in the existing bug report
[03:06] <xstasi> mh, i'm right now compiling mplayer svn
[03:07] <xstasi> i have the original ubuntu sources too, i can try recompiling them with debug symbols later
[03:11] <xstasi> well i have a backtrace anyway
[03:11] <evand> thelsdj: It should.  File a bug and attach /var/log/syslog if it doesn't.
[03:41] <g0su> Hello, i have a little problem with tmpfs, i can put the umask options. Why? http://pastebin.gulic.org/266
[04:35] <thelsdj> hm, evolution in the 'Office' menu on feisty doesn't appear to have an icon?
[04:35] <thelsdj> ah i see bug
[04:36] <g0su> in my feisty , my evolution have icon :S
[04:36] <thelsdj> g0su: is it in both menus?
[04:36] <thelsdj> internet and office?
[04:36] <g0su> Aplications -> office -> evolution
[04:36] <thelsdj> 'evolution mail' in internet vs 'evolution' in office
[04:37] <thelsdj> hm mine doesn't have an icon, i installed flight 4 then updated
[04:37] <g0su> yes, i have two evolutions
[04:37] <g0su> evolution mail in internet and evolution in office
[04:37] <thelsdj> the one in office doesn't have icon, not sure if i had one before update
[04:37] <g0su> yes same hier, flight four
[04:37] <thelsdj> weird
[04:38] <thelsdj> where is the data for the menu?
[04:38] <g0su> the data in my menu?
[04:39] <thelsdj> i just mean where on disk is the data for the menu stored so i can see if bad path or something weird
[04:40] <g0su> ich weiss nich, i dont know
[04:40] <g0su> i understand but i am not know when gnome store the menu
[04:40] <thelsdj> sure, thanks
[04:41] <thelsdj> do both of your evolution icons look the same?
[04:41] <g0su> evolution in office is the evolution icon
[04:41] <g0su> but the icon of evolution mail is different
[04:41] <LaserJock_>  /usr/share/applications/ is where most .desktops are
[04:42] <g0su> one world with one letter
[04:44] <thelsdj> so appears the .desktop file has Icon=evolution-2.10
[04:44] <g0su> /home/user/.gconf/apps/evolution :s
[04:45] <thelsdj> and looks like both evolution and evolution-common install their own .desktop files, that seems kinda silly
[04:47] <g0su> but thelsdj evolution exec -> Exec=evolution-2.10 and evolution-mail -> Exec=evolution --component=mail
[04:48] <thelsdj> actually there are 3, i mean theres the mail one, and then there is evolution.desktop and evolution-2.2.desktop and neither appears to have a valid icon, though only one is enabled in the menus i guess, but not sure why there are 2 (maybe for people with an old version installed, i don't know)
[04:49] <thelsdj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/88439 was marked as resolved only a while ago, so maybe new package will fix eventually
[04:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88439 in evolution "[Feisty]  no evolution icon" [Low,Fix committed]  
[04:50] <g0su> thelsdj, use alacarte
[04:50] <g0su> you can see the 3 evolution :D
[04:51] <thelsdj> yea thats where i first noticed there was a hidden one
[04:51] <g0su> http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/9127/pantallazo1hc1.png
[04:52] <thelsdj> so 2.9.92-0ubuntu1 was released earlier today, i wonder if this bug was introduced by that
[04:52] <thelsdj> g0su: you update your feisty today?
[04:52] <g0su> thelsdj, yesterday
[04:52] <thelsdj> ok so you might not have the buggy version :)
[04:54] <g0su> :D
[05:36] <SEJeff> When was it decided that compiz would be installed by default?
[05:37] <LaserJock> it isn't
[05:37] <_ion> It is.
[05:37] <jdong> it is
[05:37] <LaserJock> or rather it *is* installed
[05:37] <jdong> today.
[05:37] <jdong> :)
[05:37] <LaserJock> just not turned on
[05:38] <jdong> LaserJock: I think that's what installed by default means.
[05:38] <LaserJock> well ...
[05:38] <LaserJock> installed by default usually implies used by default
[05:38] <SEJeff> LaserJock: I realize that, but I read last weeks dev meeting and the note from sabfdl that beryl and compiz should both go in universe
[05:38] <LaserJock> although not always ;-)
[05:38] <SEJeff> This is confusing to watch compiz install from a dist-upgrade
[05:38] <LaserJock> SEJeff: apparently Mark decided to have it promoted
[05:39] <SEJeff> LaserJock: Very cool
[05:40] <jdong> Mark is magical.
[05:40] <LaserJock> I'm a bit suprised since it's not exactly Main material
[05:41] <LaserJock> but the masses will be happy
[05:46] <jdong> meh, Novell/Redhat at least somewhat believe it's enterprise-ready
[05:46] <jdong> to some degree :)
[05:46] <SEJeff> LaserJock: True, but that will likely give it much more testing (which can only be good in the end)
[05:46] <jdong> but masses happy is good
[05:46] <jdong> besides FC6 has been guinea pigging desktop-effects for us
[05:46] <SEJeff> Right
[05:47] <LaserJock> I don't look forward to the bugs/support problems
[05:47] <jdong> the truth is people who want to enable desktop effects will go to all lengths to do it
[05:47] <jdong> and many are willing to risk that stability for it
[05:47] <LaserJock> but yeah, hopefully it'll get cleaned up quick
[05:47] <jdong> look at all the guides around for Xgl and Beryl and such.
[05:47] <SEJeff> jdong: and doing it in a somewhat supportable way is much better
[05:47] <jdong> don't those make you CRINGE? :)
[05:47] <jdong> "delete libxmesa.this and copy libxmesa.that into it"
[05:47] <jdub> LaserJock: compiz is main material, just not for everyone :)
[05:48] <LaserJock> uhhh ;-)
[05:48] <jdong> you mean like emacs?
[05:48] <jdong> lol
[05:48] <jdong> well actually that's for no one.
[05:49] <mpt> What Ubuntu needs is a decent text editor
[05:50] <SEJeff> mpt: sudo apt-get install vim-full && sudo update-alternatives --config editor :P
[05:50] <_ion> But... It already *has* ed.
[05:50] <mpt> SEJeff, I said "decent"
[05:50] <_ion> It is the standard editor.
[05:50] <LaserJock> I was going to say emacs, but didn't want to get shot
[05:51] <SEJeff> emacs is a great operating system, it just needs a decent editor
[05:51] <SEJeff> Like vim
[05:51] <mpt> ok, I'll rephrase
[05:51] <jdong> god emacs needs to C-x C-DIE a slow painful death
[05:51] <LaserJock> I like it for editing, not so much the OS part
[05:52] <mpt> Programmers currently using UltraEdit, EditPad, BBEdit, etc don't seem to have an equivalent editor they can use on Ubuntu
[05:52] <SEJeff> emacs is actually a lot less code than vim too
[05:52] <jdong> I like it for the fact that I can alias it to vim, not so much for the vim is not default on Athena part.
[05:52] <jdong> mpt: GEdit :D
[05:52] <SEJeff> mpt: And sadly, site is one of the best editors like that in the repos
[05:53] <jdong> actually GEdit is interestingly useful
[05:53] <SEJeff> s/site/scite/
[05:53] <jdong> aren't I supposed to be doing some backport of scite.... hmm....
[05:53] <mpt> jdong, I use gedit daily. It doesn't even have Find with grep.
[05:53] <SEJeff> *cough* python plugin
[05:54] <mpt> what?
[05:54] <jdong> python
[05:54] <jdong> gedit
[05:54] <jdong> import re
[05:54] <jdong> and friends
[05:54] <jdong> voila
[05:54] <SEJeff> mpt: Gedit is scriptable with python and really really easily
[05:54] <jdong> gedit can be an OS too.
[05:54] <jdong> but it doesn't hurt your pinkie
[05:55] <SEJeff> Or make people hate you
[05:55] <mpt> jdong, but see, if I have to learn python just to find regexps, I might as well just use emacs in the first place
[05:55] <jdong> mpt: well python is actually something useful to leran.
[05:55] <mpt> whereas with the other editors I mentioned, it's a checkbox in the Find window.
[05:58] <mpt> It's also modal, which is another thing that annoys me about gedit
[05:58] <mpt> e.g. if you've nearly finished typing the thing you want to search for, and then you realize "oh, this thing needs to be a regular expression", you'd have to exit out of it and start again in the python console
[05:59] <SEJeff> mpt: Have you used the gedit CTRL K search? Doesn't sound like you have
[05:59] <mpt> SEJeff, yes, I reported a bug about it yesterday
[06:00] <SEJeff> mpt: ok, just checking
[06:00] <mpt> but that's not quite relevant to this issue :-)
[06:00] <mpt> well, actually, it is
[06:00] <mpt> e.g. start typing a Ctrl+K search, and then realize "oh, this search needs to be case-sensitive", so you have to exit out of it and start again in the Find window...
[06:01] <LaserJock> so all editors suck, emacs just sucks less?
[06:01] <mpt> Something like that :-)
[06:01] <jdong> @lart LaserJock 
[06:01] <jdong> :)
[06:01] <mpt> for various values of "emacs"
[06:01] <jdong> for extremely nonexistent values of emacs.
[06:01] <LaserJock> mpt: amazingly I've found a similar thing with web browsers, email clients, and OSs
[06:02] <SEJeff> We need a meta-package called emacs-ng that just depends on vim-full
[06:02] <LaserJock> eww
[06:02] <jdong> actually vim-full Replaces: emacs
[06:02] <jdong> at least in my dreams
[06:02] <jdong> lol if I submit a patch... never mind :P
[06:02] <g0su> emacs vs vim? troll xD
[06:03] <LaserJock> I love vim, but that's just wrong :-)
[06:03] <mpt> LaserJock, how do you mean?
[06:03] <LaserJock> web browsers suck, email clients suck, OSs suck
[06:03] <LaserJock> some just suck a little less than the others
[06:03] <SEJeff> So write your own
[06:04] <mpt> This isn't really a matter of sucking, it's more a symptom of "lack of itch" on the part of the developers
[06:04] <mpt> Same reason we don't have much kids' software
[06:04] <LaserJock> SEJeff: now why would I do that?
[06:04] <LaserJock> mpt: somewhat for sure
[06:04] <SEJeff> Well if it sucks, maybe you could make it better
[06:04] <mpt> or an Internet connection assistant
[06:04] <LaserJock> SEJeff: extremely doubtful
[06:05] <stub> Launchpad is going down in 26 minutes for a code update and data migration work. Estimated downtime is 3 hours.
[06:05] <SEJeff> LaserJock: That was sarcasm, nvm my OT
[06:05] <mpt> because the people who would be able to solve those problems are the people who do not have them.
[06:05] <LaserJock> SEJeff: ;-)
[06:06] <Hobbsee> stub: yay.  the one time where I *wasnt* about to do triaging work.  we're making progress here.
[06:07] <LaserJock> mpt: I understand what you're saying for sure. I'm a scientist and I'd love to see better scientific software. But it's hard for scientists to do it becuase they are busy doing science
[06:08] <supervillain> Why does NoDisplay=True doesn't work in Feisty?
[06:09] <Hobbsee> supervillain: please see the topic
[06:10] <Hobbsee> supervillain: after that, please think on not barging in and asking a question, and more importantly, about actually providing some context with your question - like, what app it's in.  also, checking the bugtracker adn reporting it, if it's not there, is useful.
[06:31] <g0su> Hobbsee, when i see one error when i report it? i am new with ubuntu, sorry. I am reading the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU but is so lange and i need some time.
[06:31] <mpt> hmm
[06:31] <mpt> Someone tell me about package descriptions
[06:31] <mpt> I see a lot of descriptions with lines that are blank except for "."
[06:31] <mpt> What is that for?
[06:32] <Hobbsee> g0su: that's fine.  you can always ask for help on how to search, etc
[06:32] <Hobbsee> mpt: er, that's something to lart the maintainer over, if that's the only thing in the description.  "." is the way to get a new line.
[06:33] <mpt> Hobbsee, why can't you just get a new line with \n?
[06:33] <Hobbsee> mpt: dunno, actually...
[06:33] <_ion> \n is a record separator
[06:33] <_ion> ...for the lack of a better word
[06:33] <_ion> in debian/control, that is.
[06:34] <mpt> _ion, I see plenty of other "\n"s in the description though
[06:34] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, as it says that the section below the space is unknown, or whatever.
[06:34] <mpt> looks like it's hard-wrapped
[06:34] <mpt> See, in Launchpad we have code that converts Ascii text to HTML
[06:35] <mpt> so it inserts <br /> and <p> and so on
[06:35] <_ion> Perhaps the software is pedantic and the descriptions contain a space after the dot, or something like that.
[06:35] <mpt> so for example, the sqcwa description ends up as
[06:35] <mpt> &nbsp;This program reads squid/access.log on the fly, analyses it and<br />
[06:35] <mpt> &nbsp;searches inside all text/html objects for some &lt;meta&gt; tags, and<br />
[06:35] <mpt> &nbsp;if found, tells squidclient to purge the page.<br />
[06:35] <mpt> &nbsp;.<br />
[06:35] <mpt> ... etc
[06:35] <mpt> Not as nice as it could be
[06:36] <mpt> so it looks like package descriptions are using some not-quite-plain-text format
[06:39] <mpt> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html doesn't describe the format
[06:39] <mpt> hmm, I bet the MOTUs will know
[06:40] <mpt> they spend all day packaging :-)
[06:40] <Toadstool> mpt: because control files follow rfc822 afaik and in rfc822, an empty line separates headers and an optional body
[06:41] <mpt> "Blank lines, or lines consisting only of spaces and tabs, are not allowed within field values or between fields - that would mean a new paragraph."
[06:41] <mpt> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
[06:42] <mpt> aha!
[06:42] <mpt> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Description
[06:43] <mpt> "[Lines]  containing a single space followed by a single full stop character ... are rendered as blank lines. This is the *only* way to get a blank line[34] ."
[06:43] <mpt> "Completely empty lines will not be rendered as blank lines. Instead, they will cause the parser to think you're starting a whole new record in the control file, and will therefore likely abort with an error."
[06:43] <mpt> fantascinating
[06:43] <mpt> ok, so Launchpad needs a new formatter
[06:45] <mpt> thanks Hobbsee, _ion, and Toadstool 
[06:45] <Hobbsee> no problem
[06:48] <g0su> For search who packet have one file in ubuntu?(i only know in gentoo: equery f file XD)
[06:48] <g0su> becouse i am searching the dh_make
[06:49] <g0su> and i have dpkg-dev
[06:49] <g0su> lol dh-make i am searching with dh_make XD
[06:50] <g0su> 7:00 and i dont sleep i think than this is the problem :P
[06:54] <giftnudel> dpkg-query -S
[06:57] <g0su> giftnudel, i wont one children with you :P
[06:57] <g0su> thanks you a lot ;)
[07:22] <g0su> giftnudel, but this is only if i have install the package but if i dont install the package, and for example i dont know than lspci is in pciutils, what is the command for search lspci y the repository?
[07:25] <LaserJock> g0su: you probably want to use packages.ubuntu.com in that case
[07:26] <Toadstool> or apt-file
[07:29] <Hobbsee> apt-cache search is also good
[07:30] <g0su> root@DarkTemplar:~# apt-file
[07:30] <g0su> -su: apt-file: orden no encontrada
[07:30] <g0su> root@DarkTemplar:~# apt-cache search lspci
[07:30] <g0su> root@DarkTemplar:~# 
[07:30] <g0su> oki doki i go to search the apt-file in  packages.ubuntu.com
[07:31] <Toadstool> g0su: you have to install apt-file in order to use it but I guess packages.u.c is a better option for you
[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[07:57] <_ion> Good evening.
[07:57] <dholbach> hiya _ion
[07:58] <_ion> What's up?
[07:58] <dholbach> I'm slowly *waking* up :-)
[07:58] <dholbach> How are you?
[07:59] <_ion> I'm going to try to get unresting, make something to eat and then go sleeping. :-)
[08:00] <dholbach> sounds good :)
[08:01] <_ion> Well, i should try to eat more often than every 24 hours or so. :-)
[08:15] <pitti> Good morning
[08:15] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[08:23] <sabdfl> yikes! what happened to thunderbird branding / palette?
[08:24] <sabdfl> oh, it's every application. seems we lost something in the ubuntu-theme upload
[08:26] <dholbach> sabdfl: oh? can you post a screenshot? which version of human-theme do you have?
[08:26] <sabdfl> dholbach: i'm up to date on feisty
[08:27] <sabdfl> all the menus and dialogs look like windows98
[08:27] <sabdfl> hmm... not all
[08:27] <sabdfl> t-bird
[08:27] <sabdfl> oo.o
[08:27] <sabdfl> both affected
[08:27] <pitti> I just dist-upgraded as well, and it looks fine so far; /me starts ooo
[08:27] <sabdfl> calculater too
[08:28] <sabdfl> pitti: try rebooting / logging out and in?
[08:28] <pitti> sabdfl: yep, will do; brb
[08:28] <dholbach> ooo looks nice for me too - i did a restart when i dist-upgraded today
[08:29] <dholbach> the human-theme upload i did was 'packaging changes' and it should only affect the window decorations anyway
[08:29] <pitti> hm, gnome-terminal is crashy-crashy now (hey dholbach)
[08:30] <dholbach> pitti: can you get me a debug backtrace?
[08:30] <pitti> dholbach: will do in a minute
[08:30] <pitti> sabdfl: today's dist-upgrade removed human-gtk-theme and installed human-theme; maybe something went wrong with that?
[08:30] <dholbach> pitti: I merged the two packages.
[08:31] <dholbach> and they should only affect the metacity window decorations
[08:31] <pitti> dholbach: oh, oops, ENOLAUNCHPAD
[08:32] <dholbach> sabdfl: it'd be nice if you could post a screenshot - for the moment I'm clueless to what might have happened there
[08:32] <pitti> arrrgh
[08:35] <pitti> dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/gnome-terminal.crash
[08:35] <dholbach> pitti: gracias
[08:35] <dholbach> pitti: it must be vte and there was a new release yesterday that seb128 wanted to take care of - i hope it'll resolve it
[08:36] <pitti> dholbach: I already have yesterday's new release -- oh, you mean there's yet another one?
[08:36] <dholbach> 0.15.5
[08:36] <dholbach> 0.15.4 is in the archive afaik
[08:36] <Mithrandir>        vte | 1:0.15.4-0ubuntu1 |        feisty | source
[08:36] <Mithrandir> so yes.
[08:37] <Mithrandir> (and I can't access the queue now, since LP is down)
[08:37] <dholbach> ah no... 0.15.5 is not interesting
[08:37] <dholbach> it has the patch i merged in manually
[08:37] <dholbach> pitti: i'll forward it
[08:38] <ajmitch> :)
[08:39] <sabdfl> dholbach: https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~mark/human-theme-issue.png
[08:39] <dholbach> sabdfl: and ooo looks just like that?
[08:42] <sabdfl> yes
[08:42] <sabdfl> need to catch a car now
[08:42] <sabdfl> cheers
[08:42] <dholbach> sabdfl: it can't be the human-theme upload - the window decorations are all correct. 
[08:42] <dholbach> ok see ... you
[08:47] <dholbach> pitti: gnome bug 412977
[08:48] <pitti> dholbach: thanks
[08:48] <pitti> Ubugtu: *shake* *shake* wake up, dude!
[08:48] <ajmitch> pitti: I doubt it'll go with LP down :)
[08:48] <ajmitch> poor pitti
[08:48] <pitti> ajmitch: bugzilla.gnome.org != launchpad.net
[08:48] <pitti> not yet, at least :-P
[08:48] <ajmitch> pitti: I know, but still..
[09:04] <jdub> anyone using bind on fisty? mine seems to be wedging every now and then, not answering anything (even rndc)
[09:10] <jdub> rt_sigsuspend([] 
[09:10] <jdub> ^ strace sitting there...
[09:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: could you please update the powerpc live CD? it's a week old, and the jigdo doesn't work any more
[09:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: this morning's one should have built fine, but I'll check.
[09:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: thank you!
[09:13] <jdub> hrm
[09:13] <jdub> strace -f:
[09:13] <jdub> [pid 25742]  <... gettimeofday resumed> {1172650424, 797245}, NULL) = 0
[09:13] <jdub> [pid 25742]  gettimeofday({1172650424, 797645}, NULL) = 0
[09:13] <jdub> [pid 25742]  futex(0x80a6f90, FUTEX_WAIT, 9, NULL
[09:13] <jdub> 
[09:14] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: what do you think of enabling the migration assistant by default now?
[09:14] <jdub> hrm, hitting that every few seconds
[09:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, today's images seem to be out of date anyway, packages seem to be from < Feb 26
[09:23] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'll go check on it now.
[09:23] <pitti> no, wait, md5sum doesn't match
[09:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: ah, of course.
[09:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: are you looking in /ports/daily or just /daily ?
[09:24] <pitti> might entirely be my silly ISP not resolving /current correctly
[09:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: /daily, for amd64
[09:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: hmm, I thought you talked about the ppc ones?
[09:25] <pitti> Mithrandir: that too, but there you are right, I need to swich my scripts to /ports; thanks
[09:26] <pitti> Mithrandir: maybe the old ppc images could be removed from /daily-live/current to avoid confusion?
[09:26] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, doing so now.
[09:27] <Mithrandir> (from -daily)
[09:27] <g0su> a
[09:27] <g0su> are you really friki? do you like linux? sure? -> http://www.pubfoto.com/albums/album35/le_mutande_di_linux.sized.jpg XDDDDD
[09:30] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: cdimage/ports/daily/hoary; can I remove that? :-)
[09:33] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: and the stuff in cdimage:custom/, can that go?
[09:35] <jdub> elmo: you guys testing fisty on ubuntu infra yet?
[09:44] <pitti> hey seb128 
[09:44] <seb128> morning pitti
[09:45] <pitti> dholbach: current amd64 live CD exposes this theme weirdness
[09:45] <ajmitch> hi seb128 
[09:45] <seb128> Hi ajmitch
[09:46] <seb128> hum, update manager is b0rked
[09:46] <ajmitch> python-apt issues?
[09:46] <seb128> hey mvo
[09:46] <pitti> seb128: summoning powers ;-P
[09:46] <seb128> I was just saying that update manager is b0rked :p
[09:46] <ajmitch> morning mvo :)
[09:46] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/UpdateManager/fakegconf.py", line 48, in save
[09:46] <seb128>     file = open(CONFIG_FILE, "w")
[09:46] <seb128> IOError: [Errno 13]  Permission denied: '/root/.update-manager-conf'
[09:47] <mvo> hey seb128! 
[09:47] <mvo> hey ajmitch
[09:47] <mvo> seb128: heh :) fixed, but my uploads are lost in soyuz
[09:47] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: have you tested the migration assistant much yet?
[09:47] <seb128> mvo: are you sure they are just not blocked by freeze?
[09:48] <seb128> mvo: .7 is to the unapproved queue
[09:48] <seb128> mvo: like waiting for moderation
[09:48] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ports/daily/hoary can go, not custom (need to archive that)
[09:49] <ajmitch> gah, upgrade broke, /boot full
[09:49] <mvo> seb128: currently there is 0.57.2 in the archive. and I uploaded quite a few since then. 0.57.5 is build sucessfully and marked "published"
[09:49] <pitti> ajmitch: what's that thing with /boot on an extra partition? what does that buy you?
[09:49] <ajmitch> pitti: / is LVM
[09:50] <pitti> ajmitch: ah, and you cannot boot from that?
[09:50] <ajmitch> grub doesn't know about LVM
[09:50] <ajmitch> grub2 may do, when we use that in the distant future :)
[09:50] <pitti> ajmitch: I have / (including /boot) on md raid-1 on my server, and lilo boots it just fine
[09:50] <seb128> mvo: hum, k
[09:50] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: no, I haven't tested it, but I'd either want to defer it or make it default soonish.
[09:51] <ajmitch> pitti: right, but that's lilo, I like keeping grub since xen is easier with it
[09:51] <seb128> Mithrandir: could you accept the vte update and the new desktop-effects (the diff with the previous version is basically a drop of the code which refused to activate compiz on xinerama)
[09:51] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ok, I'll think about it this morning
[09:51] <ajmitch> pitti: my mistake was just making /boot too small :)
[09:51] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes, I can once LP is back.
[09:52] <seb128> ah, didn't know that LP was out of order
[09:52] <seb128> thanks ;)
[09:52] <ajmitch> seb128: so compiz should work on dual-head nvidia now?
[09:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: production update.
[09:52] <pitti> seb128: scheduled downtime for feisty translations
[09:52] <seb128> ah, they didn't do it in the middle of the night that time
[09:52] <Mithrandir> it was supposed to be done half an hour ago
[09:53] <cjwatson> 2:30am would have got in the way of west coast US folks (e.g. mdz ;-))
[09:53] <cjwatson> so it was moved to 5:30am
[09:53] <Mithrandir> staging is up, though.  If you need to look at things, etc.
[10:00] <ajmitch> seb128: xserver is dying with not finding fixed font, you uploaded a fix for that?
[10:00] <seb128> ajmitch: no
[10:00] <seb128> /usr/share/X11/fonts is probably a directory on your box
[10:01] <seb128> which broke the /usr/share/X11/fonts -> /usr/share/fonts/X11 creating
[10:01] <seb128> creation
[10:01] <seb128> we really need to workaround that
[10:01] <seb128> dunno why some install have a directory there :/
[10:02] <ajmitch> yeah it is a dir
[10:03] <ajmitch> old fonts.{alias,dir} that weren't removed on package upgrades
[10:06] <seb128> ogra: new gnome-power-manager to package
[10:07] <tepsipakki> seb128: we can bring back that patch which fixes the font-issue.. I tested it yesterday
[10:07] <seb128> tepsipakki: would be nice, do you have a debdiff handy? ;)
[10:07] <tepsipakki> I can dig it
[10:07] <seb128> tepsipakki: I did an upload to fix the xvfb Depends which have been dropped during the merge
[10:09] <tepsipakki> seb128: ok, it's not visible in -changes yet though
[10:09] <seb128> tepsipakki: weird, it was yesterday evening for me
[10:12] <tepsipakki> seb128: oh, I can download the new source
[10:12] <tepsipakki> so it is in the archive
[10:12] <seb128> tepsipakki: it has been accepted like 10 hours ago, not a surprise ;)
[10:12] <tepsipakki> yesh
[10:14] <zyga> hi I'm trying to install edgy server on a CF card and I'm having issues with GRUB - I'm tracking the problem down but I realized that we are using grub-0.97 aka grub 1 aka grub legacy that no longer accepts bug reports or patches, am I correcT?
[10:14] <zyga> In other words, assuming that I manage to fix the problem my patch will probably be lost
[10:14] <zyga> I don't like that to happen
[10:18] <dholbach> ogra: new gnome-power-manager
[10:20] <seb128> ogra: I told that like 10 minutes ago :p
[10:20] <seb128> ups
[10:20] <seb128> dholbach: I told that like 10 minutes ago :p
[10:21] <dholbach> seb128: OKAY
[10:26] <ogra> dholbach, seb128, did you see ? there is a new gnome-power-manager :P
[10:26] <seb128> ogra: there is? cool! What about packaging it then :p
[10:26] <pitti> oh, bazaar.lp.net is down too
[10:27] <dholbach> ogra: ROCK
[10:27] <ogra> heh
[10:28] <ogra> let me finish my mail ... then i'll get to it ...
[10:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you still have the amd64 live cd booted?
[10:34] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, but I can do it quickly
[10:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: please, and if you can check whether installing gtk2-themes-ubuntulooks fixes the problem, that'd be swell
[10:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: sure, doing now
[10:42] <pitti> dholbach, Mithrandir: ^ confirmed, that repairs it
[10:42] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[10:42] <Mithrandir> dholbach: can you upload a new -theme package that depends on g-t-u?
[10:42] <dholbach> ARG
[10:42] <dholbach> definitely!
[10:42] <pitti> dholbach, Mithrandir: just to avoid errors in a hurry, it's s/themes/engines/
[10:42] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[10:43] <Mithrandir> oh, sorry, yes.
[10:43] <pitti> hm, I just got another report about /usr/share/X11/fonts b0rkage; but I guess that's not h5 critical?
[10:44] <Mithrandir> that's an upgrade problem, not an install problem, isn't it?
[10:44] <pitti> yep
[10:44] <Mithrandir> handle it later, then
[10:44] <Mithrandir> IMO
[10:45] <Ng> several people in #ubuntu+1 got bitten by the font path changing yesterday fwiw
[10:45] <ogra> pitti, i have one hal bug where pressing the powerbutton generates two events, i think we should look into that before release
[10:45] <pitti> Mithrandir: btw, did you see my dhcp3 freeze exception request from yesterday?
[10:45] <pitti> ogra: ok
[10:47] <Riddell> bdmurray: pong
[11:16] <seb128> hum
[11:17] <seb128> for things like xserver-xorg-video-* where we sync on Debian and just add an additional Conflicts,Replaces on xserver-xorg-driver-package, do we need to change the Maintainer?
[11:17] <seb128> or can we use a build1 version?
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: if we change debian/control, this needs to be -ubuntu1 and Ubuntu maintainer AFAICS
[11:20] <seb128> pitti: ok :/
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: otherwise the change would disappear automatically on next autosync
[11:20] <seb128> hum, that's a good point
[11:21] <pitti> yay LP!
[11:23] <cbx33> ooho LP is back?
[11:23] <dholbach> Mithrandir: the new gthumb works nicely for me - but i'm happy with waiting after herd5 - as you like it.
[11:25] <ajmitch> dholbach: you should be using f-spot instead :)
[11:28] <Hobbsee> dholbach: did you get that message that YOU ROCK?
[11:28] <dholbach> Hobbsee: yes, THANK YOU!
[11:28] <ajmitch> heh
[11:29] <dholbach> Hobbsee: you ROCK too :)
[11:29] <dholbach> Hobbsee: what do I owe the pleasure? :)
[11:29] <ajmitch> dholbach: just being you?
[11:29] <Hobbsee> dholbach: :)  the bzr wiki howto
[11:29] <dholbach> you're all flattering me :)
[11:29] <dholbach> Hobbsee: oh? which one?
[11:30] <Hobbsee> oh crap, i needed to put a new k-d-s upload thru.
[11:30] <Hobbsee> dholbach: w.u.c/bzr
[11:30] <dholbach> Hobbsee: i didn't work much on it
[11:31] <dholbach> Hobbsee: troy_s started it and some #bzr folks improved it
[11:31] <Hobbsee> it's attributed to you and one of the LP guys
[11:31] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[11:31] <dholbach> I chatted with troy about bzr before
[11:32] <schwuk> Is gnome control center gone for good in Feisty?
[11:33] <seb128> schwuk: no, it's still there, the menu item is just hidden
[11:34] <schwuk> seb128: will it remain off by default?
[11:34] <seb128> schwuk: menus will be default for feisty
[11:34] <seb128> and we will reconsider shell next cycle
[11:34] <dholbach> seb128: you should write a DesktopTeam/FAQ :)(
[11:34] <seb128> it still has some bugs that would be nice to fix
[11:35] <schwuk> bugger - now I have to re-re-write my chapter!
[11:35] <seb128> dholbach: yeah ;)
[11:35] <seb128> schwuk: sorry about that
[11:35] <schwuk> seb128: It's not too bad - I just need to re-add the bits from the first edition
[11:36] <schwuk> It's a pain in the **** writing a book about an unfinished product. :(
[11:37] <Treenaks> schwuk: nose?
[11:37] <schwuk> finalbeta: insert your own four letter word depending on how coarse you are! :)
[11:37] <ogra> is it on purpose that we only have amd64 images ?
[11:38] <schwuk> Treenaks: I was thinking jono actually :)
[11:38] <Treenaks> schwuk: 'a pain in the jono'? hmm..
[11:38] <schwuk> Treenaks: It's his fault...
[11:38] <mvo> Riddell: it looks like adept is crashing with the latest apt on package removal *sigh*
[11:39] <Riddell> mvo: erk
[11:39] <Mithrandir> dholbach: cheers, sounds good.
[11:39] <cjwatson> ogra: you know where the logs are
[11:40] <cbx33> ogra: had some ltsp-build-client errors on edgy
[11:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: the reason you don't have ppc images is I nuked them.
[11:41] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i'll mark bug 86305 as fix committed then
[11:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86305 in gthumb "UVF exception: gthumb 2.9.3" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86305
[11:42] <ogra> Mithrandir, i was more intrested in i386 :)
[11:43] <Mithrandir> ogra: i386-schaithreeeightysix. :-)
[11:44] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: the normal soyuz bug is the problem; could you do your workaround?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: (d-i + tarfile = boom)
[11:46] <ogra> cjwatson, err ... the last log in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/edubuntu/feisty/ is from feb 16th
[11:46] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: meh
[11:47] <cjwatson> ogra: ah, this is the first I've heard of that. will investigate
[11:47] <ogra> some mirroring issue i guess
[11:48] <ogra> pitti, bug 81227 was the one i was talking about earlier ...
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81227 in hal "Logout screen appears twice [Feisty] " [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81227
[11:48] <Mithrandir> dholbach: your changelog for human-theme is wrong (but the fix is correct).  You're adding g-e-u to Depends, not Build-Depends.
[11:49] <cbx33> is it a known bug that sometimes pressing the power button straight shutsdown the machine and doesn't prompt what to do?
[11:49] <cbx33> sorry may be the wrong place to ask
[11:49] <dholbach> Mithrandir: sorry
[11:50] <pitti> cbx33: happens to me on ppc
[11:50] <cbx33> pitti: happens to me sometimes on i386
[11:50] <cbx33> but i can't reproduce, random unfortunately :(
[11:52] <segfault> Congratulations on completing your LPIC-3 "Core" certification.
[11:52] <segfault> woohoo! :>
[11:52] <cbx33> w00t segfault 
[11:52] <cbx33> congrats
[11:53] <segfault> its nice
[11:54] <cbx33> my problem is I'm a JOATMON
[11:54] <cbx33> Jack Of All Trades, Master Of None :p
[11:54] <segfault> hehe
[11:54] <cbx33> i do a bit of everything
[11:54] <cbx33> guess being a sysadmin doesn't help there
[11:56] <segfault> sure it helps
[11:59] <ogra> feisty-server-amd64.iso              28-Feb-2007 00:48  596M
[11:59] <ogra> OMG what do i do with all that space ?
[12:00] <cjwatson> ogra: build logs fixed; thanks. It was fallout from the old /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com compatibility symlink being removed.
[12:00] <ogra> ah, k
[12:00] <StevenK> Ah, no-name-yet.com is getting the boot?
[12:04] <cbx33> ogra, well the build failed again
[12:05] <cbx33> E: There are problems and -y was used without --force-yes
[12:05] <cbx33> this is ticking me off now
[12:06] <cjwatson> (fix the problems, don't add --force-yes ...)
[12:06] <cbx33> cjwatson: good advice ;) - If I knew where the problem lay
[12:07] <Mithrandir> meh, mdebdiff doesn't handle the case of something having changed components.
[12:08] <Mithrandir> StevenK: well, not having it means less hassle when tab-completing.. :-)
[12:09] <cjwatson> cbx33: is this a CD build log?
[12:09] <cbx33> ogra is aunauthenticated instlalation of pacakges liable to cause it to fail here?
[12:09] <cbx33> no.....I installed from CD and ltsp build failed there 
[12:09] <cbx33> so i was trying a manual one, but it's failing here too
[12:10] <ogra> can you do one that you log ? ands send me the log ? 
[12:10] <ogra> *and
[12:10] <cbx33> how do you want me to log
[12:10] <cbx33> just capture the output of the build?
[12:11] <seb128> Mithrandir: please accept the vte update (fix a crasher) and the xorg-server update (fix "fixed font not found" problem for people who had a /usr/share/X11/fonts directory before updating)
[12:11] <ogra> yourcommand 2>&1 >/tmp/file.log
[12:11] <ogra> something like that
[12:12] <seb128> hum
[12:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: that does not do what you think it does.
[12:12] <seb128> Rejected:
[12:12] <seb128> Unable to find vte_0.15.5.orig.tar.gz in the distribution.
[12:12] <Mithrandir> blah > file 2>&1 is usually what you want.
[12:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: if I've an 0ubuntu2 to upload I should use -sa for it?
[12:12] <ogra> Mithrandir, wrong order ? 
[12:12] <seb128> 0ubuntu1 has not been accepted
[12:12] <ogra> right
[12:13] <ogra> cbx33, ^^^^
[12:13] <cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/375516
[12:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: if there's no .orig.tar.gz in the archive, you should use -sa, yes.
[12:14] <ogra> cbx33, a *full* log please
[12:14] <cbx33> okie
[12:15] <ogra> thats edgy you said ?
[12:15] <cbx33> yes
[12:15] <cbx33> just running it again with full logging
[12:15] <ogra> and you cleaned up properly before i hope :)
[12:15] <cbx33> just like you told me
[12:15] <ogra> good
[12:15] <cbx33> sudo rm /opt/ltsp/i386 -Rf
[12:21] <pitti> holy sh**, my ddebs repository is 21 GB already; poor people.u.c...
[12:29] <Mithrandir> seb128: with vte and xorg-server in, you have all the changes you want before herd 5 in?
[12:29] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: you worked around the soyuz / d-i breakage?
[12:29] <seb128> Mithrandir: no, but the other are not really blockers
[12:30] <seb128> Mithrandir: I would like to have a gnome-panel inverting admin and system menus (the way they used to be ordered) and dropping the network applet (which dups with network-manager icon)
[12:30] <seb128> s/inverting/switching
[12:31] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you have the packages for this ready?  If so, I can sneak them in.
[12:31] <seb128> Mithrandir: no, but that's just using again a patch we dropped and modifing a .schemas, that will be quick, doing that now
[12:32] <Mithrandir> seb128: go ahead, then.
[12:33] <poningru> halp
[12:34] <poningru> what do you guys think should go in the herd5 'release notes'?
[12:34] <poningru> added bunch of stuff like artwork etc.
[12:34] <poningru> apport
[12:34] <seb128> poningru: compiz on the CD?
[12:34] <poningru> xorg 7.2
[12:34] <poningru> ooh awesome
[12:36] <poningru> vpn plugins
[12:36] <poningru> for nm
[12:36] <poningru> keep it coming btw
[12:36] <Ng> oh awesome, I'd been building the openvpn one myself :)
[12:37] <poningru> yeah soren hansen did those two
[12:37] <poningru> atleast checked them in
[12:37] <poningru> ...
[12:37] <cbx33> ogra http://pastebin.ca/375546
[12:37] <Ng> poningru: well my thanks to whoever it was ;)
[12:37] <cbx33> is there a pipe to clipboard command?
[12:37] <cbx33> cat something | clipboard
[12:38] <Mithrandir> xclip?
[12:39] <cbx33> thanks
[12:39] <cbx33> ogra: it still failed with the same message
[12:51] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: argh, sorry, not yet, doing now
[12:55] <Mithrandir> seb128: should I hold the publisher waiting for you?
[12:55] <seb128> Mithrandir: package is building on my box, shouldn't take long, please do
[12:56] <Mithrandir> seb128: cheers; publisher on manual.
[12:56] <Mithrandir> tell me when your packages are uploaded?
[12:56] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: some amd64 oversizing in daily-checks mail
[12:57] <Mithrandir> almost 10MB. :-(
[12:57] <shawarma> Ng: No problem. :-) (re: the network-manager vpn plugins).
[12:58] <Ng> shawarma: :)
[01:02] <ogra> cbx33, hmm, strange i was expecting to see more errors above ... i wonder why it cant authenticate the packages ... i dont see that behavior here 
[01:03] <cbx33> no....it is odd and bloody annoying
[01:03] <cbx33> excuse my language
[01:05] <ogra> any special optionsa you give to ltsp-build-client ?
[01:06] <cbx33> none
[01:06] <cbx33> jus ta straight run
[01:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: gnome-panel uploaded, I didn't do the menu switch, it should rather be done to the gnome-menus layout and can wait after herd, the other changes might be useful for herd (fix gdm_socket location, which is used for people using the upstream session dialog mode) and dropped the wireless applet from the profile (dup with network-manager)
[01:06] <cbx33> i really can't understand it
[01:07] <cbx33> is there a way i can check gpgv
[01:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok.
[01:07] <cbx33> see if that's causing the issue?
[01:08] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: so did you want that ubiquity migration-assistant change? I have it in bzr now
[01:08] <cjwatson> will try to do a test run first
[01:09] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: if you think it's reachable for feisty, I think it's about time it's turned on.
[01:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'll accept the upload, but IMO you should reverse the test.  Right now, I can make gnome-panel unable to talk to gdm by doing "touch /tmp/.gdm_socket"
[01:11] <seb128> Mithrandir: good point
[01:11] <seb128> will fix that after the freeze
[01:15] <cbx33> I tried running gpgv and it seemed to be ok
[01:17] <cbx33> ogra even apt-get update fails to run gpgv properly
[01:18] <ogra> on the server ?
[01:19] <ogra> or in the chroot ? where did you test that
[01:19] <cbx33> on the server
[01:20] <ogra> Mithrandir, there is a new g-p-m waiting in the queue
[01:20] <cbx33> Unknown error runn gpgv
[01:20] <cbx33> s/runn/executing
[01:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: *sigh*; you just missed the publisher with that.
[01:22] <ogra> meh
[01:23] <ogra> i didnt want to push it untested, else i'd have been ready 15min ago :(
[01:26] <cbx33> ogra got it
[01:26] <cbx33> damn it the clock had skewed....we should warn the user about this
[01:29] <cjwatson> ltsp-build-client should just use the gpgv option that ignores timestamp skew
[01:29] <cbx33> well it doesn't as yet :p
[01:29] <cbx33> cos apt-get update worked when changing the time
[01:29] <cjwatson> base-installer writes out an apt.conf.d fragment for the duration of the install that does that
[01:29] <cbx33> so i hope this will fix it
[01:29] <ogra> cbx33, does /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/020-apt-get-update exist ? 
[01:29] <cbx33> lemme check
[01:30] <cjwatson>         # Avoid clock skew causing gpg verification issues.
[01:30] <cjwatson>         # This file will be left in place until the end of the install.
[01:30] <cjwatson>         cat > /target/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00IgnoreTimeConflict << EOT
[01:30] <cjwatson> Acquire::gpgv::Options { "--ignore-time-conflict"; };
[01:30] <cjwatson> EOT
[01:30] <ogra> cjwatson, it uses --ignore-time-conflict since dapper
[01:30] <ogra> (ltsp-build-client that is)
[01:31] <cbx33> yeh it's in there
[01:31] <cbx33> it exists
[01:31] <cbx33> but that's probably why my install failed too
[01:31] <cjwatson> ogra: if I were you I'd install an apt.conf.d fragment as above rather than just passing the argument to a single apt-get invocation
[01:31] <ogra> oh, wait, i think i see the error
[01:31] <cjwatson> ogra: we tried the latter approach in d-i and it was too annoying to track down all the apt-get invocations that might call gpgv
[01:32] <ogra> cjwatson, i only have one 
[01:32] <cjwatson> ogra: and besides the ltsp-build-client plugin that tries to do that is obviously broken
[01:32] <cjwatson>         chroot $ROOT apt-get update
[01:32] <cjwatson>         export APT_GET_OPTS="$APT_GET_OPTS -o Acquire::gpgv::Options::=--ignore-time-conflict"
[01:32] <ogra> but for fuiture releases apt.conf.d might make sense
[01:32] <cjwatson> I'm not sure what that's meant to achieve ... :-)
[01:32] <ogra> cjwatson, yep, right, just discovered that
[01:33] <ogra> it was in a different order once and the chrooted line had $APT_GET_OPTS in it
[01:34] <ogra> smells like a merge oversight
[01:35] <ogra> cbx33, change the order of the two lines and make the second one: chroot $ROOT apt-get $APT_GET_OPTS update
[01:35] <ogra> then it should work
[01:36] <cbx33> well i have changed the time now...i will try it later on
[01:37] <ogra> i wonder why i never saw it on my ibook, where the clock is wrong on *all* installs 
[01:37] <ogra> thats a bit strage 
[01:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: I've uploaded a gnome-menus update to fix the menus order, if you come to do an another publisher run for whatever reason please accept it, otherwise it can wait for after herd
[01:46] <jwendell> seb128, please help me, i have a doubt about debdiff
[01:46] <Mithrandir> seb128: cheers.
[01:47] <seb128> jwendell: debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
[01:47] <seb128> jwendell: or debdiff old.deb new.deb
[01:47] <jwendell> seb128, wow, i was typing my question and you answered! thanks!!!
[01:47] <seb128> np
[01:49] <Mithrandir> or debdiff old.changes new.changes.
[01:57] <cbx33> ogra: if I have 2 nics setup in the machine, but don't want to use the dhcp server.....what do I have to do to set it up?
[01:57] <cbx33> anything special?
[01:58] <ogra> why do you use two nics then ? 
[01:58] <ogra> just use one :)
[01:58] <cbx33> ok....will try that
[01:59] <ogra> and make sure your other dhcpd is configured properly indeed 
[01:59] <cbx33> yeh i wrote the book on that :p
[01:59] <cbx33> well not quite
[01:59] <ogra> ;)
[02:00] <jwendell> seb128, a bug in gnome-screensaver must be assigned to desktop-bugs, right?
[02:00] <seb128> jwendell: no, ogra maintains that package
[02:01] <seb128> don't assign it
[02:01] <jwendell> ok
[02:01] <seb128> he's subscribed to the bugs probably
[02:01] <seb128> what is the bug number?
[02:01] <jwendell> yep
[02:01] <jwendell> seb128, just a minute
[02:04] <cbx33> ogra: on edgy....i thought ldm screen said edubuntu
[02:04] <cbx33> not ubuntu?
[02:05] <jwendell> seb128, ogra, bug 84662
[02:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84662 in gnome-screensaver "Xnest: ghost mouse" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84662
[02:16] <ogra> jwendell, already on my radar for post herd5
[02:16] <jwendell> ogra, thanks
[02:16] <jwendell> ogra, did you see the debdiff?
[02:16] <ogra> yep
[02:17] <heno> ogra: you're still using the gartoon icon set right? (re: winfoss styling)
[02:17] <ogra> yep
[02:17] <heno> cool
[02:17] <jwendell> ogra, did i do something wrong?
[02:17] <ogra> jwendell, looks fine to me
[02:18] <jwendell> ogra, i'm just learning, to, someday, become a ubuntu-dev ;)
[02:24] <seb128> jwendell: waouh, that's a gnome-screensaver bug
[02:24] <seb128> jwendell: nice catch ;)
[02:25] <jwendell> jwendell, it wasn't me, i just made the debdiff
[02:25] <jwendell> seb128, but it's really interesting
[02:26] <seb128> that bug is annoying me for some time
[02:26] <seb128> nice to get it fixed
[02:26] <ogra> yep
[02:26] <ogra> a good strep forward towards ubuntu-dev ;)
[02:27] <ogra> *step
[02:28] <ogra> cbx33, suedo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork
[02:28] <ogra> *sudo indeed
[02:28] <ogra> it will check the chroots and switch the themes
[02:32] <Lathiat> some people have far too much time on their hands
[02:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: impressive.. you made /. with herd 5 main freeze
[02:57] <Mithrandir> must be a slow day.
[02:58] <Mithrandir> I could understand a herd release showing up there, but those freezes are quite frequent.
[03:00] <pitti> asac: argh, could firefox please stop telling me that I upgraded to 2.0.0.2? does this affect the stable updates as well?
[03:01] <finalbeta> pitti: only told me once.
[03:01] <asac> its just once
[03:02] <pitti> it keeps telling me whenever I log in
[03:03] <asac> on feisty?
[03:03] <pitti> asac: yes
[03:08] <asac> pitti:  in about:config ... what is set for key browser.startup.homepage_override.mstone ?
[03:09] <pitti> asac: rv:1.8.1.2
[03:10] <asac> i constantly switch back and force from and to different branches/minor version ... for it always pops up just for first time
[03:10] <asac> sounds reasonable
[03:11] <cjwatson> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-auto/+bug/87275
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87275 in partman-auto "feisty fawn herd 4 server loops when partitioning disks attempted" [Undecided,Needs info]  
[03:11] <cjwatson> Partitioning method:
[03:11] <cjwatson> 0
[03:11] <cjwatson> Guided - resize cdrom-retriever and use freed space
[03:11] <cjwatson> *blink*
[03:12] <cjwatson> how on earth did cdrom-retriever get there
[03:12] <asac> pitti: can you reproduce by simply restarting firefox or just on each login (session auto start)?
[03:13] <pitti> asac: hm, merely quitting/restarting DTRT; I'll investigate further and file a bug with some details
[03:13] <asac> i think you forcefully shutodwn firefox when log out -> preferences are not persisted
[03:13] <asac> and thus your browser.startup.homepage_override.mstone might still have been old?
[03:13] <pitti> perhaps
[03:14] <pitti> asac: ffox is started with the session for me, and I never bother to close it manually
[03:14] <pitti> maybe it even works now, since I manually closed it once now
[03:14] <asac> there is not much we could do about that ... maybe firefox should try to persist preferences if killed?
[03:14] <asac> pitti: i would think so
[03:15] <pitti> asac: I think it should just restore the previous homepage right after displaying the upgrade one the first time
[03:16] <asac> homepage is not touched
[03:17] <asac> its just that if milestone in pref is smaller then actual version, it will open the upgrade notice
[03:17] <cbx33> ping ogra, I have some machines that won't tftp boot.  PXE-E32 TFTP open timeout
[03:20] <asac> pitti: if you file a bug, please drop info what signal firefox receives if you just logout ... e.g. SIGTERM?
[03:20] <pitti> asac: yep, will do if I can still reproduce it
[03:21] <iwj> pitti: I thought I would do a few main inclusions if you're not busy with the queue right now.
[03:21] <mvo_> Mithrandir: could you please accept update-manager 0.57.7? it fixes a couple of issues and earlier versions were blocked by soyuz (and I did not knew aobut this)
[03:21] <asac> if its now gone ... set the mstone pref manually to 1.8.1.1 ... then use as you did before (e.g. never quit manually)
[03:22] <pitti> iwj: that would be appreciated
[03:22] <pitti> asac: ah, nice trick, yes
[03:22] <Mithrandir> mvo_: it's not in the queue yet
[03:23] <mvo_> Mithrandir: oh, sorry. it should be any minute
[03:28] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ubiquity 1.3.23 in the queue
[03:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ugh, ok.  I just (before I had to go out with the dog for a couple of minutes) started a publisher run for the new u-m.  Oh well.
[03:41] <bddebian> Heya
[03:44] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: sorry, should have mentioned earlier to hold off :-(
[03:46] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: hmm, is the new xserver-xorg-input-keyboard herd5 critical?
[03:48] <seb128> Mithrandir: no
[03:48] <Mithrandir> good
[03:48] <seb128> Mithrandir: I keep uploading xorg updates but they are not for herd
[03:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: that's fine; thanks.
[03:48] <cliebow> fabbione:i got this monster solaris installing...pulled some memory did the trick
[03:48] <seb128> np
[03:49] <seb128> Mithrandir: if you still accept updates maybe consider the gnome-menus one? So we don't get a bunch of bugs complaining about the menus order ;)
[03:52] <seb128> hi gismo
[03:52] <gismo> hello seb128, hello all
[03:53] <bddebian> Hello gismo
[04:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: you're aware your gnome-python upload FTBFS?
[04:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6563637/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-amd64.gnome-python_2.17.92-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[04:09] <seb128> Mithrandir: need a retry with the xorg-server I've uploaded yesterday evening
[04:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok.  I'll do that once the new xorg-server is done, then
[04:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: xvfb 2:1.2.0-3ubuntu2
[04:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: it should be done, cjwatson accepted it like 16 hours ago
[04:10] <Mithrandir> oh, ok
[04:10] <seb128> I did another update since ;)
[04:11] <Mithrandir> given-back, then
[04:11] <seb128> thanks
[04:31] <AlinuxOS> pitti, hello ;)
[04:32] <pitti> hi AlinuxOS 
[04:32] <AlinuxOS> pitti, how are you ?
[04:32] <pitti> pretty good, and you?
[04:32] <AlinuxOS> pitti, ok me too ;) Testing Feisty
[04:32] <AlinuxOS> (translation related testings)
[04:33] <AlinuxOS> pitti, here is Mozilla 2.0.2 with no locale package ...is it normal ?
[04:33] <pitti> AlinuxOS: feisty doesn't have langpacks yet
[04:33] <AlinuxOS> or maybe it's only english for a moment.
[04:33] <AlinuxOS> ah
[04:33] <AlinuxOS> ;)
[04:33] <pitti> AlinuxOS: ah, no firefox 2.0 translations for Georgian available, sorry
[04:33] <AlinuxOS> pitti, understood ;)
[04:33] <pitti> (these have nothing to do with language-pack-XX)
[04:34] <AlinuxOS> pitti, why so ?
[04:34] <pitti> AlinuxOS: well, noone updated the Goergian translatios for 2.0
[04:34] <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-firefox-locale-all/+bug/73581
[04:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73581 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Providing Firefox 2.0 Georgian (ka) localisation." [Wishlist,Fix released]  
[04:35] <AlinuxOS> pitti, http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all.html  Georgian  is present.
[04:36] <pitti> AlinuxOS: ah, maybe it was added for 2.0.0.2
[04:36] <pitti> AlinuxOS: I didn't update it since 2.0.0.1
[04:37] <AlinuxOS> I suppose final realise of Feisty will have 2.0.0.2 Firefox... ;)
[04:37] <AlinuxOS> so you could use official translation ;)
[04:42] <AlinuxOS> pitti, I remmember you had a your private langpack repository 
[04:43] <AlinuxOS> is feisty supported ?
[04:44] <pitti> AlinuxOS: no, Rosetta doesn't have Feisty translations yet
[04:44] <pitti> iwj: *grin*
[04:44] <docmur> hello all
[04:44] <thom> iwj: should i even ask what you're doing with SOAP?
[04:45] <pitti> thom: everyone needs to wash himself occasionally...
[04:45] <AlinuxOS> pitti, are you going update mozilla 2.0.2 langpacks in the near future for feisty too ?
[04:45] <thom> pitti: wash in acid, should they happen to go near WS-* or SOAP...
[04:45] <pitti> AlinuxOS: yes, I will; you can file a bug to remind me
[04:46] <AlinuxOS> pitti, on wich package ?
[04:46] <AlinuxOS> pitti, ;)
[04:46] <pitti> AlinuxOS: mozilla-firefox-locale-all
[04:46] <AlinuxOS> pitti, ok ;) thank you...and have a nice day !
[04:48] <mooey> is the system -> quit (logout) dialog part of gnome-session?
[04:48] <seb128> mooey: yep, why?
[04:49] <mooey> seb128, but 88015 - it freezes - need to direct the reporter to get a backtrace from the right process
[04:50] <mooey> bug 88015 even *
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88015 in linux-source-2.6.20 "shutdown window freezes everytime" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88015
[04:50] <seb128> mooey: I closed the gnome-panel task and just commented on that one like one min ago
[04:50] <mooey> weee, just noticed that
[04:50] <mooey> too fast for me, heh :-)
[04:50] <iwj> thom: the main inclusion queue has some Java things in it.
[04:51] <thom> run! away!
[04:51] <iwj> As you say.
[04:54] <iwj> And I had a headache today before I started on this.
[04:55] <docmur> hello all
[04:56] <docmur> I'm trying to find a guide on how to set up a miniboot loader with a mini shell, thats it
[04:56] <docmur> I'm starting a project in college to make my own OS
[04:56] <docmur> I can find the guide I saw it like 3 years ago
[04:57] <iwj> I think you're probably in the wrong place.  This channel is for people working on the development of Ubuntu.
[04:57] <fabbione> cliebow: so removing the ram made the problem go away? even for linux?
[04:57] <docmur> well I don't know where else to go I figured on of you might know 
[04:57] <iwj> docmur: I'm sorry but we're all busy developing Ubuntu.
[04:58] <superm1> ping BenC 
[04:58] <pitti> heh, I /msg'ed that guy an URL, that URL seems to have kicked him out
[04:58] <superm1> haha
[04:59] <superm1> well i'll just shoot him an email if he doesnt come back in the near future
[04:59] <BenC> superm1: pong
[05:01] <superm1> heya BenC , i was wondering if upstream version freeze guidlines were as strict on things like drivers for the kernel.  ivtv 0.9.1 is with feisty, but 0.10.0 was released a few weeks ago and supposedly is a big redesign that is highly recommended
[05:02] <BenC> superm1: a) File a bug report and I'll prioritize it, or b) (best solution), get a patch against our tree to update it to 0.10.0 source, test build it, and send the diff to kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com
[05:02] <cliebow> fabbione, yes i pulled two of four sticks and the prob went away..it appeared to load fine.but still boots to Solaris..so i must have picked wrong hd
[05:03] <superm1> sigh. my only feisty box doesn't have any PCI slots to throw a tuner in, i'll do A for now, unless I can manage to upgrade my box with tuners to feisty this weekend
[05:03] <superm1> okay
[05:03] <fabbione> cliebow: just change the boot disk in the OBP
[05:03] <jelmer_> siretart: hi
[05:03] <cliebow> ok..ill sort that out then
[05:04] <cliebow> thanks
[05:06] <cliebow> 
[05:06] <cliebow> so setenv boot-device ?
[05:10] <cliebow> banner
[05:10] <fabbione> cliebow: yes.. boot-dev
[05:10] <fabbione> feisty will fix that for you...
[05:11] <fabbione> but dapper and edgy can't
[05:11] <mooey> should bug 87796 be refiled against evolution data server? the delay seems to occur when the clock is waiting for eds to fire up
[05:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87796 in gnome-panel "the calendar of the clock applet is slow" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87796
[05:12] <seb128> mooey: not really
[05:12] <mooey> alright
[05:12] <seb128> mooey: it happens also on the first click I think
[05:13] <seb128> I've evolution running, I just clicked on the applet and it took one second before opening
[05:13] <seb128> and even if starting e-d-s is the problem then gnome-panel should maybe do it in an idle loop so it's ready before clicking 
[05:13] <mooey> hm. i don't get a delay when i've started evo first
[05:13] <seb128> it's a low priority bug though
[05:13] <mooey> i can't set bug priorities :p
[05:14] <seb128> maybe the delay is shorted and you don't notice it
[05:14] <mooey> i'll confirm it and report it upstream
[05:14] <mooey> if i dont start evo first the delay is noticible
[05:14] <seb128> mooey: thank you
[05:14] <seb128> look first if there is already a bug about it
[05:14] <mooey> of course 
[05:18] <jdong> evince takes a ridiculously long time to start in Feisty
[05:19] <jdong> it happened like starting from last week
[05:19] <jdong> ** (evince:12341): WARNING **: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
[05:19] <jdong> ^^ what's it trying to contact?
[05:20] <seb128> jdong: looks like a dbus problem on your side
[05:20] <jdong> seb128: :( anyway to debug it more?
[05:20] <jdong> no other apps seem to complain
[05:20] <jdong> just evince
[05:21] <seb128> pitti or slomo might know better
[05:21] <jdong> it only happens once at the start of a session
[05:21] <jdong> any subsequent evince runs normally
[05:22] <AlinuxOS> Hello Devs, I can't see Georgian text files with emacs(or vim) in non X (=terminal mode) mode. Even then in Feisty "console-setup-1.13ubuntu6" has Georgian language support.(Georgian bitmap fonts are present).Cow can I solve this ?
[05:22] <cliebow> fsabbione:  heh: i swapped the two drives..it starts to boot to    
[05:22] <lems1|gone> AlinuxOS: did you try #ubuntu?
[05:22] <cliebow> gentoolinux///mounting proc at /proc..mount command failed with error..proc already mounted
[05:24] <AlinuxOS> lems1|gone, I'm talking about Feisty, and geo bmp font support is important for debian-installer. 
[05:24] <lemsx1> jdong: sounds like a possible problem with /etc/hosts and the caching of resolved names... make sure that 127.0.0.1 is in your /etc/hosts ... that usually slows things down a lot (when it breaks). and if you are running a caching daemon like nscd, stop it
[05:25] <lemsx1> AlinuxOS: at first that sounded like a support question ;-)
[05:25] <AlinuxOS> lemsx1, sorry ;)
[05:27] <carlos> mvo_: hi, could you confirm whether https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/84349 is a bug with your ddtp scripts?
[05:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84349 in dict-gcide "E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/fr.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_feisty_main_i18n_Translation-fr" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[05:27] <AlinuxOS> lemsx1, I'm in contact with console-setup mantainer Anton Zinoviev, he included georgian16.bdf font in later console-setup version... but I can't see georgian letters in terminal mode.
[05:28] <cjwatson> we included that patch ages ago
[05:29] <cjwatson> AlinuxOS: you might find that running 'sudo setupcon' helps - there's a problem with fresh installs of feisty setting up a broken initramfs that doesn't quite get it right
[05:29] <cjwatson> (running that from the console)
[05:30] <cliebow>   r
[05:31] <AlinuxOS> cjwatson, ah ok I'll check. Can you tell me which font size is used in a terminal mode by default ?
[05:31] <AlinuxOS> console-setup supports for the moment only 16 an 14 sizes. (I'm working on remaning sizes).
[05:32] <cjwatson> it depends, iirc
[05:32] <cjwatson> check the config script
[05:32] <AlinuxOS> iirc ?
[05:33] <AlinuxOS> cjwatson, which config script ? (sorry I'm not a developer..I'm just translator...and little bit font designer) :)
[05:34] <cjwatson> console-setup.config
[05:35] <mvo_> carlos: let me check
[05:35] <mvo_> carlos: that was a bug in the script, but it should be fixed since ~4 weeks or so
[05:36] <AlinuxOS> cjwatson, I've found that http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-kbd-devel/2006-December/000474.html sadly there is no man page :/
[05:37] <AlinuxOS> cjwatson, ah ok I've found some infos in a config file.
[05:38] <cjwatson> I mean /var/lib/dpkg/info/console-setup.config
[05:39] <hyakuhei> I just saw M.Shuttleworths talk at work. Its awesome, keep up the good work all :-)
[05:39] <frenkel> hyakuhei: which talk? link?
[05:43] <hyakuhei> frenkel: Dont have a link to it, It was the talk about where Linux in general is heading, visually it was just many slides with single points on them which he then discussed. Went over the things linux needs to do to be universally accepted
[05:44] <dsas> "n big challenges" or something, he turned it into a blog series.
[05:44] <hyakuhei> The only link I can find is : http://computing-colloquia.web.cern.ch/computing-colloquia/upcoming.html#ubu
[05:44] <frenkel> ah ok
[05:44] <hyakuhei> Was fun anyway :-)
[05:44] <frenkel> thnx
[05:46] <hyakuhei> Though at one point during some question answering his laptop cut in with some seriously psychedelic swirling colours - I'm pretty sure from that point on he just hypnotised us to think his talk was great whilst he went out for a coffee....
[06:06] <mvo_> doko: is python-bittorrent waiting in NEW? 
[06:12] <doko> mvo_: maybe, didn't look
[06:29] <cliebow> fabbione: still around?
[06:31] <fabbione> cliebow: very busy...
[06:33] <fabbione> cliebow: please just write in /msg and i will answer later
[06:33] <fabbione> cliebow: i need to feed my son now and i am not sure how long it will take
[06:49] <doko> what do three blinking keyboard LEDs mean, if usplash fails to come up (on amd64)?
[06:51] <zyga> doko: kernel panic?
[06:57] <dholbach> Accessibility Team meeting in 3 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting.
[07:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, Mithrandir: ping
[07:03] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[07:04] <tkamppeter> pitti, Mithrandir, it is about the activation of the SNMP backend of CUPS.
[07:04] <tkamppeter> I have posted on the ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-devel-discuss lists about that.
[07:05] <tkamppeter> On ubuntu-devel it seems that no one does the moderator task, I never got a message that my posting got accepted or rejected.
[07:05] <tkamppeter> On ubuntu-devel-discuss I got no answer at all.
[07:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm, no idea;
[07:09] <tkamppeter> pitti, Mithrandir: My suggestion is to activate it and to see whether it causes complaints, there is still enough time to de-activate it again if it causes more problems than benefit. Small issues get probably fixed upstream quickly if we get bug reports.
[07:10] <pitti> that WFM
[07:10] <tkamppeter> pitti, WFM is "works for me"?
[07:10] <pitti> it's innocent enough AFAICS, the worst that can happen is that it doesn't work att all
[07:10] <pitti> and that's no worse than what we have now
[07:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes; sorry
[07:12] <tkamppeter> That's true if it has a bug and therefore does not detect the FooJet XYZ, the user is in the same situation as with snmp deactivated, but the user whose Paperwaster 1000 is detected will love Ubuntu.
[07:13] <pitti> tkamppeter: the only thing I'd be concerned about is network packet flooding, but that doesn't seem worse with snmp than with cups browsing
[07:15] <tkamppeter> Package flooding is no big problem as the snmp backend does not run permanently. It runs only 3-4 seconds once during running the add printer wizard of a printer setup tool.
[07:16] <tkamppeter> And CUPS' broadcasting runs every 30 sec all the time.
[07:19] <delire> i'm looking at putting Ubuntu onto a number of machines here at UNI. on trying out the Live/InstallCD on the Dell Optiplex workstations I'm responsible for i notice that the X server crashes on init. changing the driver to VESA fixes the problem. would it be possible to have a script for starting X that falls back on vesa in the event that a driver like ati fails? surely one could just pass it to sed and run it a second time with 
[07:21] <delire> as you know, many people that say they've tried and left Ubuntu do so because X doesn't start. there are a high percentage of these cases.
[07:22] <cjwatson> delire: that's https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/bullet-proof-x, unfortunately didn't make it for feisty (actually the design never got finished)
[07:23] <cjwatson> delire: safe mode is our workaround for now, but we would definitely like it to get done
[07:24] <delire> ahh cool. well it's good to know. 
[07:24] <delire> a sys-admin here told me before i tried "Ubuntu doesn't work on Dell's, don't bother - we've already tried" ;)
[07:25] <cjwatson> unfortunately safe mode was broken in edgy, but it's fixed in feisty
[07:26] <cjwatson> obviously we would also like to have some kind of workflow in there that lets us find out about the machines that are falling back to vesa and fix them eventually
[07:29] <delire> yes i was thinking about this too.
[07:31] <delire> cjwatson: are you thinking about some sort of user authorized report mechanism? eg sending dmesg Xorg.0.log to a db when the machine is next online?
[07:31] <ogra> iwj, seeing you do MIRs, please dont bother with the libpam- libnss- ones, i'll redo them soon
[07:32] <cjwatson> delire: dunno :-) I think there are rough notes in the bullet-proof-x page but they haven't been tidied up
[07:32] <cjwatson> delire: gluing it into the apport crash reporting mechanism would be the obvious approach
[07:32] <Robot101> ogra: which pam/nss stuff are you adding?
[07:33] <delire> righto well it sounds like you're onto the case. very good to see. 
[07:33] <ogra> Robot101, libpam-{ldap,mount} and libnss-ldap
[07:34] <cjwatson> delire: I'm not, personally, and nobody is working on this right now
[07:34] <cjwatson> delire: it is very high on the Canonical distro team's list of things that should get done
[07:35] <cjwatson> delire: but we are still working on hiring an X maintainer so that we stand a chance of realistically doing them
[07:35] <delire> right, well it is such a big showstopper it warrants that kind of commitment.
[07:37] <seb128> ogra: run, *fast* :p
[07:37] <iwj> ogra: OK, if you want to defer them, put them into the `needs work' section of the queue ?
[07:38] <ogra> iwj, oki
[07:38] <iwj> Thanks.  This is good especially now that there are two of us doing these occasionally.
[07:41] <ogra> moved ....
[07:41] <ogra> i just didnt want to drop them completely to not forget about them
[07:53] <tepsipakki> delire: which version of the livecd are you using?
[08:00] <pochu> heno, Mithrandir: I've just mailed you about herd-5 and xubuntu, because a xubuntu tester administrator mailed me this afternoon.
[08:01] <heno> pochu: ok, thanks
[08:02] <pochu> heno: there's also a surprise in the mail ;)
[08:02] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: will the sync requests be processed before the end of the week?
[08:02] <heno> pochu: I didn't get it yet. mails with attachments sometimes get caught in the spam filter
[08:03] <pochu> heno: if you don't receive it, tell me. I attached a image
[08:04] <finalbeta> Ok, feel free to shoot me if I'm out of place. But I have Rhythmbox crashing on my when playing a certain song. apport doesn't come up, no crash log is left in /var/crash and only Segmentation fault is left on the terminal. How do I provide usefull information if I want to make a bug report?
[08:06] <finalbeta> Or, just ignore me, that will work 2, hehe
[08:11] <pochu> yeah! I have my @ubuntu account :)
[08:11] <pochu> yohooooo
[08:13] <delire> tepsipakki: i downloaded an Edgy ISO around 1 week ago.
[08:14] <delire> tepsipakki: it doesn't pickup X on any of the Dell workstations using ATI cards (mostly Optiplex).
[08:16] <imbrandon> umm i thought we wenrnt doing the compiz/beryl , but now its in -desktop ?
[08:16] <imbrandon> wth
[08:17] <pochu> imbrandon: yeah, martin updated it, but it's not enabled by default
[08:18] <imbrandon> that still sucks
[08:18] <tepsipakki> delire: ok, you could try feisty herd 5 when it is released later this week
[08:18] <pochu> imbrandon: maybe if you have an ati card :P
[08:19] <j1mc> Mithrandir: Cody Somerville said I should contact you regarding the status of Xubuntu testing
[08:20] <tepsipakki> delire: but you could file a bug and attach Xorg.0.log to it before that
[08:20] <j1mc> Mithrandir: he's in the hospital, so I've been taking care of it.  Please see our test results on the wiki.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Current
[08:21] <tepsipakki> delire: if you can get it out from the livecd-session ;)
[08:21] <pochu> j1mc: heya :)
[08:21] <pochu> j1mc: have you received my mail, about 15 minutes ago?
[08:22] <j1mc> pochu: no, not yet
[08:22] <j1mc> oh, wait . . . yes
[08:22] <j1mc> thanks for your reply
[08:22] <pochu> j1mc: np :)
[08:22] <pochu> heno: did you received it?
[08:23] <delire> tepsipakki: i should've grabbed that log, but in a rush i've just gone ahead with the installations. 
[08:24] <tepsipakki> what have you installed on them?
[08:25] <delire> tepsipakki: these Optiplex machines will be used as game/3d development workstations.
[08:25] <tepsipakki> ok, wife is grumpy, need to stop :P
[08:25] <delire> ;)
[08:26] <delire> pochu: given that Compiz and ATI don't play well, around half of all laptops capable of running a 3D game won't be able to enjoy a 3D desktop.
[08:27] <pochu> delire: yes, but that's because ati drivers, isn't it?
[08:27] <delire> of course, but the user doesn't care/know about that. i'm not sure if Compiz should've been the default.
[08:28] <delire> although it is arguably more stable, when it does work.
[08:29] <pochu> delire: it isn't prepared to be default, but it isn't enabled by default ;)
[08:29] <j1mc> pochu: here is the link to our current testing page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Current.
[08:30] <j1mc> yes, I've flip-flopped the Testing & Xubuntu, and will get that corrected after the next herd release.
[08:30] <j1mc> :(
[08:30] <pochu> j1mc: yeah, I've read it, but we started a different way of testing images ;)
[08:30] <pochu> j1mc: oh, that's fine :)
[08:31] <sladen> doko: your kernel has crashed.
[08:32] <delire> pochu: for so many users, and for reasons i largely find dubious, a 3D desktop is the difference between Ubuntu being considered as an alternative against Vista and OS X. for this reason i'd probably go with a default that has the highest hit-rate. ATI dominates the portable market and so alot of users will be disappointed with Compiz. nonetheless this is a well-worn conversation and doesn't need to be dragged around again.
[08:32] <j1mc> pochu: yeah . . .   i've just now gone back to find some of the info on where you're headed.  with cody being in the hospital, i expected to have revisions, but needed to get something up rather quickly.
[08:33] <pochu> j1mc: you have some useful links here:
[08:33] <pochu> https://launchpad.net/~isotesting
[08:36] <doko> sladen: I did fear that ...
[08:36] <j1mc> thanks.  funny how i'm a member of that team.   https://launchpad.net/~jwcampbell  :)
[08:36] <pochu> j1mc: yeah, I saw it :)
[08:36] <pochu> j1mc: if you have any question, just ask it :-)
[08:42] <j1mc> pochu: thanks.  well, i'm sure we'll be in touch more going forward, but for now my big concern is seeing if there will be a Herd 5 for Xubuntu.
[08:43] <j1mc> given the amount of effort and testing, I would hate for their not to be a Herd 5.
[08:43] <Mithrandir> j1mc: thanks a lot; I'll take a look
[08:44] <Mithrandir> j1mc: if you're in touch with him, send my regards and wishes for him becoming well again.
[08:46] <j1mc> Mithrandir: thanks!  I've just sent Cody a note, copying what you just wrote.
[08:46] <pochu> j1mc: thanks to you for your testing ;)
[08:46] <j1mc> np.  Cody conned me into it.  :)
[08:47] <pochu> j1mc: did you received the image I sent within the mail?
[08:48] <j1mc> pochu: not yet
[08:49] <pochu> argh! :)
[08:50] <j1mc> i got the note you sent about an hour ago, though.
[08:51] <pochu> I'll sent the mail without the image, at least :)
[08:52] <mrec_> hi guys, what's the best way to get involved with ubuntu development?
[08:52] <mrec_> I'd be interested to move my linuxtv project from linuxtv directly to ubuntu
[08:55] <pochu> mrec_: you may want to read this:
[08:55] <pochu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[09:00] <j1mc> pochu: i need to go, but feel free to be in touch via email.  i did get your email with the attached image.  thanks.
[09:20] <mrec_> kylem: ping
[09:20] <kylem> pong
[09:22] <mrec_> just read that you're in the ubuntu video team, I have some problems with other linux-dvb developers and I'm now looking for a new home for my project
[09:23] <mrec_> maybe developing it directly with ubuntu would be a better way to get forward
[09:23] <kylem> oh.
[09:23] <mrec_> http://linuxtv.org/v4lwiki/index.php/Em2880
[09:23] <mrec_> it's about that driver here, around 50 new devices
[09:23] <kylem> cool.
[09:24] <mrec_> I'm sick of having endless discussions with them
[09:24] <kylem> what do you need?
[09:24] <mrec_> can I put that wiki site somewhere onto an ubuntu webserver?
[09:24] <mrec_> I'll split it off linuxtv now
[09:25] <mrec_> it's fine to commit that code as a USB driver
[09:26] <mrec_> maybe some ubuntu guys are even interested in helping out with that project?
[09:26] <mrec_> the site has around 110.000 hits since 1.1.2006 :)
[09:28] <kylem> BenC, ping
[09:29] <mrec_> the code is around 8000 lines at the moment
[09:30] <mrec_> the problems with the linux-dvb guys is about changing a smaller part of the dvb api to add support for a generic tuner interface
[09:30] <mrec_> so that 1 tuner module could be used with dvb or video4linux
[09:31] <mrec_> since this is not possible and nacked by them and another solution didn't get proposed I will quit that community
[09:31] <heno> pochu: thanks. you have mail
[09:31] <mrec_> (I've triggered 2 discussions about that and they end up nowhere as I expected at the beginning)
[09:32] <pochu> heno: looking :)
[09:32] <mrec_> but I don't want to delay the inclusion of that code another year
[09:32] <kylem> ok.
[09:33] <mrec_> so the em28xx should directly interface the tuner module, and skip the official v4l and dvb tuner interface
[09:33] <mrec_> the problem is that tuner is a hybrid tuner for analogue and dvb-t
[09:33] <mrec_> merging parts of the v4l and dvb framework is a nogo for them
[09:34] <mrec_> (so that was the background information)
[09:38] <kylem> from the sounds of it, there seems to be demand for this... we should probably be including this driver.
[09:39] <BenC> kylem: yo
[09:40] <pochu> heno: looks promising ;)
[09:40] <BenC> mrec_: We have a git tree (wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam is where you'll get all our info)
[09:40] <mrec_> I'm interested to join the ubuntu team to help improving it :) if interested
[09:40] <heno> pochu: feel free to hack on it :)
[09:40] <BenC> mrec_: If you can work from the git tree, we can pull directly from you
[09:40] <pochu> heno: I'll try :)
[09:41] <mrec_> BenC: sure I can
[09:41] <pochu> heno: do you know what Mithrandir has been doing? just to not duplicate efforts
[09:41] <pochu> Mithrandir: ^
[09:42] <Mithrandir> pochu: my approach is to store as much as possible in LP
[09:42] <BenC> mrec_: Are you worried that doing it this way will keep the driver from getting into upstream kernel?
[09:43] <mrec_> BenC: I'm in contact with Greg KH as I wrote, I know what I have to do to get it into upstream kernel. I just ran into wrong directions by thinking I could work with linuxtv guys
[09:43] <mrec_> the video4linux maintainer would accept my changes, but dvb maintainers are hell against it
[09:44] <mrec_> and discussions are over now with them.
[09:44] <pochu> Mithrandir: sure. What I've been thinking is to make a page with the current state of each image, and links to them, so we can see in a moment which ones haven't been tested, or which need another try...
[09:44] <Mithrandir> pochu: yes, that's the goal.
[09:44] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: will the sync requests be processed before the end of the week?
[09:44] <pochu> Mithrandir: but the reports would go to LP, and the status field in the LP report would be the status in the page
[09:45] <pochu> (IMHO)
[09:45] <pochu> as heno wrote in the wiki :P
[09:45] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: I don't see why not.
[09:45] <BenC> mrec_: Excellent, because the ultimate goal would be to get it to that point. I look forward to the first pull of your driver :)
[09:45] <BenC> mrec_: Note, we're about to freeze the kernel, so the sooner the better
[09:45] <mrec_> I could do some amd64 too, since I work for AMD :)
[09:46] <Mithrandir> pochu: yes, but I'd also want to grab the list of subscribers and their comments from LP.
[09:46] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: ok :)
[09:46] <BenC> mrec_: Oooh, then maybe you can get AMD to be more Linux friendly :)
[09:47] <mrec_> BenC: let's see what the future will bring up
[09:47] <mrec_> that driver is a private project though
[09:47] <pochu> Mithrandir: do you mean to show them in the 'overview page'?
[09:48] <BenC> mrec_: Right, understood
[09:48] <Mithrandir> pochu: yes.
[09:48] <BenC> mrec_: For future discussion on this, #ubuntu-kernel may be more suited
[09:48] <pochu> ok :)
[09:48] <BenC> mrec_: kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com for discussion and patch submission/git-pull request
[09:49] <BenC> mrec_: We take patches on the same basis as you would do for Linus
[09:50] <mrec_> fine :)
[09:50] <mrec_> BenC: so I'll try to migrate my driver during this weekend, the code should be available within a few days then.
[09:51] <BenC> mrec_: sounds good
[09:57] <psusi> what's the argument again for not having the livecd mount hard disks?
[09:58] <jdong> psusi: automatically without asking, or not having the ability to instruct Ubuntu to mount it after bootup?
[09:58] <psusi> the other day I found that with the dapper livecd, if you right click on a hard disk in gnome and choose mount, it says pmount failed... clearly this is not acceptable, but it seems it is intended that pmount not auto moun hard disks
[09:58] <jdong> I personally would not like a livecd implicitly mount without my permission
[09:59] <jdong> but as far as the behavior you describe, I'd call it a bug.
[09:59] <psusi> why?
[09:59] <psusi> would an acceptable solution then be to have pmount accept hard disks, but have hal not try to auto mount them?  thus the gnome mount option would work manually?
[09:59] <psusi> or what if it only auto mounts them read only?
[10:00] <jdong> psusi: what if my volume was badly damaged to the point where mounting it causes a kernel oops
[10:00] <jdong> and that's happened to me before
[10:00] <jdong> read-only is better
[10:00] <psusi> then that's a bug in the kernel and should be fixed ;)
[10:00] <jdong> but read-only is not 100% read only either.
[10:00] <psusi> that is another bug that needs fixed...
[10:00] <jdong> i.e. some filesystems execute journal recovery anyway
[10:00] <jdong> well, you go fix that
[10:01] <jdong> then I'll agree to mounting read-only
[10:01] <psusi> hehe ;)
[10:01] <jdong> </ubuntu attitude>
[10:01] <jdong> actually...
[10:01] <psusi> well, you do agree that it should moun when you tell it too right?
[10:01] <jdong> absolutely.
[10:01] <jdong> that's agreed
[10:01] <mrec_> BenC: what's the best place to move the documentation to?
[10:02] <psusi> iirc, it is gnome-volume-manager that calls pmount... it should just not do that for hard disks automatically, but if pmount is called at the user's request, then it should not refuse to mount hard disks.... make sense?
[10:03] <Mithrandir> psusi: g-v-m doesn't use pmount any more.
[10:03] <psusi> ohh?  it directly mounts itself?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> it uses some hal methods for doing it, AIUI.
[10:06] <jdong> has seb128 already finished serving his archive day today? :(
[10:06] <seb128> jdong: no, I didn't do lot though, I'm not sure what I can do during a freeze
[10:06] <seb128> jdong: what do you need?
[10:06] <jdong> seb128: can you do all the in progress backports?
[10:06] <seb128> ah, I can have a look at that, right
[10:07] <jdong> it's been... a month since an archive manager has paid any attention to it
[10:07] <jdong> thanks, I really appreciate it
[10:07] <seb128> I never done them, need to look what has to be done there first ;)
[10:08] <Mithrandir> jdong: "already"?  It's after 22:00, even seb needs to sleep once in a while.
[10:08] <jdong> Mithrandir: I'm sorry, I didn't know what timezone you guys are all in
[10:09] <seb128> archive team is to european time
[10:09] <jdong> ok
[10:09] <jdong> if you don't want to deal with it, that's fine
[10:10] <seb128> jdong: I'll probably have a look tomorrow rather than tonight
[10:10] <jdong> ok
[10:10] <jdong> good night
[10:11] <seb128> 'night
[10:12] <Mithrandir> jdong: np. :-)
[10:29] <mdke> fabbione: ubuntu-serverguide is in the archive. Can you include it in the server installation and maybe have a think about some potential ways to make users aware of its presence?
[10:32] <BenC> mrec_: Documentation/ is good
[10:35] <mrec_> BenC: hmm, I put it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/em28xx, would be nice if you could move it
[10:36] <BenC> mrec_: Oh, that's fine too
[10:37] <pochu> mrec_: have you thought in making subpages, to not make the page so long?
[10:37] <pochu> I think then it will look better :)
[10:39] <mdke> how long does it take for mail to ubuntu-devel to be moderated nowadays? are there a good few moderators? or is it faster to write to -discuss for getting to the developers' attention?
[10:39] <LaserJock> it could take a little bit, I'm really not sure
[10:40] <mdke> i see waves of email coming into that list every now and again, so I have the impression the moderation isn't perhaps as frequent as it should be
[10:40] <mdke> I don't understand the distinction with the two mailing lists anyway, I'll use -discuss
[10:41] <mvo> mdke: have you seens that #74555 is now verification-done?
[10:42] <mdke> mvo: yeah thanks a lot! I've passed it onto dholbach for uploading
[10:42] <mdke> :)
[10:42] <mvo> mdke: cool, thanks 
[10:43] <mrec_> pochu: feel free to change it :)
[10:44] <mdke> mvo: since you're here - do you know who is in charge of implementing the easy installation of binary drivers that mdz mentioned in his recent announcement?
[11:14] <mvo> mdke: originailly that was assigned to me, but then scott took it over
[11:22] <mdz> mdke: I believe pitti is working on it