[12:30] <mpt_> Goooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[01:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88803 in launchpad "New formatter for presenting package descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88803
[02:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88812 in malone "Bugs chart not drawn, leaving big blank space, in major browsers" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88812
[02:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88818 in malone "Many people report non-Launchpad bugs on Launchpad products" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88818
[03:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88826 in rosetta "E-mail message about PO import failure is obscure" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88826
[03:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88827 in launchpad "launchpad login e-mail message needs origin correction" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88827
[03:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88831 in rosetta "Import of correct po-file fails" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88831
[05:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #45386 in malone "Add GNU savannah to the remote bug watches" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45386
[05:06] <LaserJock> oh, that's a good one
[09:05] <Madpilot> evening, all
[09:06] <Madpilot> got a wiki vandal who needs dealing with.
[09:06] <Madpilot> https://launchpad.net/~tehliq3
[09:06] <Madpilot> for this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Home?action=diff
[09:07] <mdke_> SteveA, stub ^
[09:16] <carlos> morning
[09:42] <stub> Disabled tehliq3 for what little that is worth.
[09:45] <LaserJock> hi mrevell 
[09:45] <mrevell> LaserJock: hi!
[09:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88873 in rosetta "Add a way to hide all translations for a distro releases" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88873
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88875 in rosetta ".pot imports are not notified" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88875
[12:17] <cprov> morning
[12:49] <cprov> stub: ping
[12:50] <stub> cprov: pong
[12:51] <cprov> stub: RF 3810 and 3811 disappeared from soyuz production. do you know why ?
[12:51] <cprov> stub: I also remember of adding them in LaunchpadProductionStatus at some point. they are not there ..
[12:55] <stub> cprov: I don't recall removing them from the Wiki
[12:56] <stub> cprov: Sounds like a stuffup to me if they are supposed to be there - I just rolled out production/1.80 onto there.
[12:56] <cprov> stub: it's a mystery. I will re-apply them and update the wiki
[01:00] <ddaa> me
[01:00] <ddaa> me?
[01:00] <ddaa> me?!?!?!
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Yes, ddaa. You.
[01:00] <mpt> "A name I call myself..."
[01:00] <ddaa> Fujitsu: I mean, it's launchpad meeting time, isn't it?
[01:00] <mpt> stub, are you chairing this one?
[01:01] <mpt> or kiko?
[01:01] <stub> me?
[01:01] <kiko> not me
[01:01] <Hobbsee> or table
[01:01] <kiko> where's SteveA?
[01:01] <danilos> me
[01:01] <mpt> [SteveA]  is away (away)
[01:01] <danilos> ?
[01:01] <mrevell> Is he still travelling back from PyCon?
[01:02] <stub> oh well... lets get the admin junk out of the way
[01:02] <mrevell> me
[01:02] <stub> Meeting <<<<
[01:02] <stub> Who is here?
[01:02] <stub> me
[01:02] <mpt> me
[01:02] <mrevell> me
[01:02] <bac> me
[01:02] <salgado> me
[01:02] <heno> me
[01:02] <BjornT> me
[01:02] <matsubara> me
[01:02] <ddaa> me
[01:02] <flacoste> me
 not here, but ddaa is
 not here, but ddaa is
[01:02] <statik> me
[01:02] <danilos> me
[01:02] <carlos> me
[01:02] <jamesh> me
[01:02] <lifeless> I'm peeking in a little
[01:02] <lifeless> but really just sprinting like mad: 107 tests to go
[01:03] <kiko> me
[01:03] <spiv> me
[01:04] <stub> There are no apologies, although I think we still have a few returning from PyCon
[01:04] <stub> barry, erm...
[01:04] <mrevell> Is Julian with us today?
[01:05] <cprov> me
[01:05] <kiko> mrevell, not yet.
[01:05] <stub> I'll let someone else work out if that is everyone
[01:05] <stub> == Agenda ==   * Roll call  * Agenda  * Next meeting  * Activity reports  * Actions from last meeting  * Oops report (Matsubara)  * Bug report (mpt)  * Bug tags  * Production and staging (Stuart)  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports  * Sysadmin requests
[01:05] <stub> * Beta performance issues - distro team members report very long page loading times (heno)
[01:06] <stub> * three sentences
[01:06] <stub> Next meeting, same time same place?
[01:06] <mrevell> kiko: Ah, I thought he was starting today
[01:06] <carlos> yep
[01:06] <stub> Objections?
[01:06] <stub> 5
[01:06] <stub> 4
[01:06] <stub> 3
[01:06] <stub> 2
[01:06] <stub> 1
[01:06] <stub> ok
[01:06] <kiko> mrevell, he does start today, but he's not online it appears
[01:06] <mrevell> kiko: Ah, right
[01:06] <stub> Activity reports. Who is up to date, who is a slack bum?
[01:07] <flacoste> up to date
[01:07] <kiko> me bum
[01:07] <carlos> I'm a week behind
[01:07] <spiv> I'm up to date.
[01:07] <matsubara> up to date
[01:07] <bac> up to date
[01:07] <BjornT> up to date
[01:07] <stub> Oops... I appear to be slack, although it is all in gtimelog waiting to go out
[01:07] <statik> up to date (just sent yesterdays)
[01:07] <ddaa> up to date
 up to date
 up to date
[01:07] <mpt> up to date
[01:07] <mrevell> Up to date, except 20th Feb, which is stored on a PC that's currently unavailable. Will hopefuly sort over weekend.
[01:07] <cprov> not up to date
[01:07] <salgado> up to date
[01:07] <stub> (which I would send out now if I wasn't chairing)
[01:07] <jamesh> not up to date (will send ones for the days I've been back)
[01:08] <carlos> danilo says that his network is not working well, so he's being disconnected from freenode
[01:08] <stub> mpt was the only slacker last week, and is now recovered.
[01:09] <stub> == Actions from last meeting ==   * '''stub''' to get list of invalid subscribers, assignee and reports  * '''stub''' to merge tom hoffman extra account  * '''jamesh''' and '''BjornT''' to agree on a proper fix to this problem 
[01:09] <stub> I did, and I did.
[01:09] <stub> jamesh, BjornT: reach agreement?
[01:09] <mpt> Sorry, I should have included, "this problem" is the problem about unregistered subscribersx
[01:09] <BjornT> stub: no, but an e-mail discussion was started.
[01:09] <jamesh> I mailed the list about the problem, but I am not sure if we reached a resolution
[01:09] <stub> So it is still an ACTION ITEM
[01:09] <kiko> mpt, unregistered as in no password or as in no preferred email?
[01:10] <jamesh> Maybe the answer is to do both: auto-validate email addresses for bug imports, and fix Malone to handle unverified subscribers/reporters
[01:10] <carlos> danilo is not up to date with activity reports, (missing yesterday one)
[01:10] <stub>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:10] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 82938 and 81394
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82938 in launchpad-bazaar "The ~vcs-imports/+registeredbranches page exceeded its hardlimit and is now broken." [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82938 - Assigned to Tim Penhey (thumper)
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81394 in launchpad "Passing a list to itemswidget crashes" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81394
[01:10] <matsubara> ddaa: do you know how is the progress of thumper's one?
[01:10] <ddaa> nope
[01:11] <ddaa> I think we agree that the whole "display vcs-imports branches" thing should be redesigned
[01:11] <ddaa> which will probably after the BranchType refactoring, I guess
[01:11] <mpt> kiko, the latter
[01:11] <kiko> mpt, did they come in via a bug import?
[01:11] <ddaa> But I did not speak specifically about this problem with thumper recently.
[01:12] <jamesh> kiko: yes
[01:12] <flacoste> about 81394, this one needs a fix upstream but there is usually a problem with the template causing the bug
[01:12] <matsubara> BjornT or flacoste: could you take on the itemswidget one? flacoste suggested that is a problem in the zope infrastructure.
[01:12] <flacoste> i can take a look at the widget side of it
[01:13] <matsubara> flacoste, BjornT: the top oops for this week is the one that I think it's related to that bug.
[01:13] <flacoste> but like I said, there is probably also a problem in the template that causes certain browser to post all items twice
[01:13] <mpt> kiko, ask jamesh, I only know what's been said at the same meetings you've been at :-)
[01:13] <matsubara> when someone (or some browser) pass a list to the +bugs search page
[01:13] <jamesh> ddaa: of course, it would be good to fix in the general case too: ~vcs-imports is just a extreme example of a user with lots of branches
[01:13] <ddaa> matsubara: thumper has also done a lot of refactoring of the branch views recently to make them support paging.
[01:13] <BjornT> flacoste: there's a bug related to that issue, that you might be interested in looking at as well. let me try to find it.
[01:13] <kiko> jamesh, I see. this is a sort of old problem
[01:14] <jamesh> kiko: sort of
[01:14] <ddaa> or so I heard, at least
[01:14] <flacoste> matsubara: the reason that the browser pass a list is the underlying problem, fixing the widget will only transform these erros into UnexpectedFormData
[01:15] <matsubara> flacoste: right, it's still better than a plain OOPS.
[01:15] <matsubara> flacoste: but I'll look for the specific malone bug about it this and add the info there.
[01:15] <flacoste> BjornT: is it possible that the bugs listing has query parameters in the form action sometime?
[01:16] <flacoste> that seems to be a problem for some browser if the form parameters are in the action and in the form
[01:17] <BjornT> flacoste: it shouldn't have. although, it might use an empty action.
[01:17] <flacoste> ah, which should be interpreted likewise by some
[01:17] <flacoste> s/should/would/
[01:17] <stub> We should discuss the actual fix after the meeting. As long as the people involved are aware and who is responsible is known.
[01:17] <flacoste> BjornT: using an explicit request/URL should fix the problem then
[01:17] <flacoste> ok
[01:18] <stub> because I'm hungry
[01:18] <matsubara> thanks ddaa.
[01:18] <matsubara> right, then I'm done stub. thank you.
[01:18] <stub>  * Bug report (mpt)
[01:18] <mpt> There are 2160 known bugs in Launchpad without released fixes, of which 10 are critical. The oldest six are:
[01:18] <mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Need to support KDE like plural forms), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
[01:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46982 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:18] <mpt> carlos, will you make any progress on this one in the coming week?
[01:19] <kiko> so
[01:19] <kiko> that one is actually blocked on firefox
[01:19] <carlos> mpt: it depends on a report that danilo is preparing for me
[01:19] <kiko> and danilo owes us a report on that
[01:19] <kiko> danilos: stop slacking and send the report in the next hours!
[01:19] <mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko
[01:19] <mpt> kiko, what's the bug number for Firefox? If the Firefox one was Critical and this one wasn't, I could nag about Firefox instead :-)
[01:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30602 - Assigned to Christian Reis (kiko)
[01:19] <danilos> carlos, kiko: it's ready, I'll post it to launchpad list after the meeting
[01:19] <carlos> mpt: the idea is to see whether firefox will land soon or we just go and extract the needed infrastructure to implement KDE plural forms so we get unblocked
[01:19] <kiko> danilos, wooo!
[01:19] <mpt> kiko, any news on 30602?
[01:20] <stub> Bug 30602
[01:20] <kiko> well now
[01:20] <kiko> mpt, I need to look at today's oops report
[01:20] <kiko> and next week we will know
[01:20] <mpt> ah, because you landed some changes
[01:20] <carlos> mpt: recent DB schema changes should reduce that problem
[01:20] <mpt> coolness
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #84361 (New translation form is too-wide), Critical, Fix Committed, carlos
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84361 in rosetta "New translation form is too-wide" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84361 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:20] <mpt> well done kiko
[01:20] <mpt> carlos, does this deserve a cherry-pick?
[01:20] <carlos> mpt: it's already requested
[01:21] <mpt> great
[01:21] <mpt>  * Bug #85519 (Appserver leaving 'IDLE in transaction' connection open on launch), Critical, Confirmed, unassigned
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85519 in launchpad "Appserver leaving 'IDLE in transaction' connection open on launch" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85519
[01:21] <mpt> Who should take this one? stub? spiv?
[01:21] <stub> That would be me
[01:21] <mpt> ok
[01:21] <spiv> phew :)
[01:21] <mpt>  * Bug #83801 (Opening a new distro release to translations should be done with a live system), Critical, In Progress, carlos
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 83801 in rosetta "Opening a new distro release to translations should be done with a live system" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83801 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:21] <mpt> haha
[01:21] <stub> Unless someone wants it :)
[01:21] <mpt> carlos, afaik Launchpad was taken down for opening Feisty translations anyway. So is 83801 still Critical?
[01:21] <mpt>  * Bug #86171 (private), Confirmed, Critical, spiv
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Bug 86171 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/86171 is private
[01:21] <stub> I will be looking at it after I finish this now over due OpenID stuff
[01:21] <mpt> spiv, you appear to have a patch. Will you be able to get this fixed in the coming week?
[01:22] <spiv> mpt: yeah, I will.
[01:22] <carlos> mpt: yeah, it should be high now
[01:22] <jamesh> if feisty has been done, then 83801 only really needs to be ready when feisty+1 is ready to open
[01:22] <mpt> ( *_U  Arrrr!)
[01:22] <mpt> thanks spiv, thanks carlos
[01:22] <mpt> And stub, that's all
[01:22] <stub>  * Bug tags
[01:23] <stub> Any new ones proposed?
[01:23] <kiko> not from me
[01:23] <matsubara> yes, a beta tag.
[01:23] <flacoste> i have one
[01:23] <matsubara> https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
[01:23] <matsubara> stub ^
[01:23] <flacoste> test-system: Bugs related to the Launchpad testing infrastructure
[01:23] <jamesh> there is already a bug tagged as beta
[01:23] <cprov> I have one too, 'soyuz-ppa'
[01:23] <mpt> Who proposed the beta tag? We have a 1.0 milestone for that sort of thing. We even have nominations and stuff.
[01:24] <mpt> Or is it about beta-specific stuff that isn't necessarily worth fixing for 1.0?
[01:24] <heno> the distro team would like to tag bugs appearing in beta
[01:24] <carlos> mpt: seb128 asked for one
[01:24] <heno> that don't appear in the old ui
[01:24] <matsubara> mpt: well, users can't set the 1.0 milestone
So tags are more generic and useful than milestones?</offtopic>
[01:24] <flacoste> can't the distro team uses milestone?
[01:25] <heno> they would be more comfortable setting tags
[01:25] <heno> milestones tend to be used by project members
[01:25] <mpt> tags ber alles
[01:25] <heno> you guys tend not to set ubuntu milestones ;)
[01:25] <matsubara> and together with bjorn's fix for bug 79671, it'll be even easier to ask beta testers to report bugs with the correct tag
[01:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79671 in malone "Allow +filebug?tag=... URLs for pre-setting tags" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79671 - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)
[01:25] <jamesh> heno: we can't
[01:26] <heno> ah, ok
[01:26] <kiko> agreed
[01:26] <kiko> so a beta tag sounds redundant
[01:26] <stub> So we should set the milestone when triaging if it is a fix-before-beta-rollout bug?
[01:26] <mpt> I'm already doing that with UI bugs
[01:27] <heno> no, it's not a question of whether it needs fixing before 1.0 release
[01:27] <heno> but whether it is unique to the beta ui
[01:27] <jamesh> heno: well, after the 1.0 release, there will be no other UI
[01:28] <kiko> I was going to say exactly that :)
[01:28] <heno> but in the meantime it would be useful to identify these
[01:28] <stub> a beta ui specific bug does tell us there is a work around (use the production system)
[01:28] <heno> they are basically regressions
[01:29] <heno> like the page load times and the failure to fit in a 800x600 window
[01:30] <stub> any one prepared to say yay or neigh on the tag? Or should we trial it for a bit?
[01:31] <kiko> I say nay
[01:31] <kiko> use 1.0
[01:31] <mpt> nay
[01:31] <heno> it's not a big commitment since it can be retired after 1.0 :)
[01:31] <heno> kiko: does 1.0 mean 'this is a new bug in the new ui only'?
[01:32] <kiko> heno, it can mean that.
[01:32] <heno> or fix before 1.0?
[01:32] <mpt> heno, no, it's the subset of those that need to be fixed before 1.0
[01:32] <kiko> it essentially means fix for 1.0 I believe
[01:32] <stub> old ui is only in maintenance now, so it isn't particularly relevant
[01:33] <heno> ok, I'll recommend 1.0 be used
[01:33] <stub> (we are only fixing critical bugs on that branch, and I doubt we will be seeing any critical ui bugs on it)
[01:33] <stub> Next up, test-system has been proposed by flacoste
[01:33] <SteveA> hi
[01:33] <danilos> so, there's also "ui" tag
[01:33] <mrevell> SteveA: wb
[01:33] <heno> slow page loads is not rally a pure ui issue
[01:33] <flacoste> i'm not sure about the name, but the idea is to have a tag related to the test infrastructure
[01:33] <heno> but it's much worse in beta
[01:34] <kiko> heno, any clue why you say it's much worse? more inline content? does activating ssl caching improve things?
[01:35] <heno> kiko: activating ssl caching helps on both versions, but beta is still much slower
[01:35] <mpt> kiko, of course it improves things, but that's not really relevant
[01:35] <stub> Can we discuss performance when we get to that agenda item?
[01:35] <kiko> mpt, I was merely trying to rule out the issue.
[01:35] <stub> flacoste: I'm happy with a tag like that
[01:35] <kiko> thanks heno 
[01:35] <jamesh> more <script src="..."> tags would be part of it
[01:35] <kiko> flacoste, that tag sounds fine.
[01:35] <SteveA> the main issue with the new ui is all the different images that need loading, at least that's what I saw when I profiled it
[01:35] <kiko> jamesh, aren't those cached when we have ssl caching
[01:35] <SteveA> there are two things we can do about it
[01:35] <kiko> though?
[01:36] <stub> Any nays for test-system? Any better names?
[01:36] <SteveA> immediately
[01:36] <stub> SteveA: later please
[01:36] <jamesh> kiko: probably, but page rendering stalls while they are loaded
[01:36] <kiko> jamesh, loaded.. ah, from the cache?
[01:36] <stub> So test-system is approved
[01:36] <kiko> test-system sounds good
[01:36] <matsubara> stub: cprov proposed the soyuz-ppa tag Bugs related with the Personal Package Archive system, usually related with some other Soyuz tag
[01:36] <spiv> I like the idea of the "test-system" tag, I feel like it could have a better name but it doesn't really matter.
[01:37] <stub> nays? yays? I guess cprov has a yay.
[01:37] <stub> (soyuz-ppa)
[01:37] <cprov> +1 for test-system (but I guess It will be also infrastructure, no)
[01:37] <kiko> thanks for fixing the lockfilename thing carlos 
[01:37] <carlos> kiko: np
[01:38] <mpt> Why not just ppa?
[01:38] <stub> Hmm... indeed.
[01:38] <kiko> ppa sounds fine
[01:39] <cprov> mpt: that would work, as well
[01:39] <stub> ok. two new tags approved, one rejected
[01:39] <stub>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:39] <stub> Production systems where updated yesterday, with the main change being the Rosetta DB schema refactoring. Downtime was longer than estimated, somewhere between 4.5 and 5 hours.
[01:39] <stub> The main reason for this was the Rosetta DB patch died 1.5 hours in the first run, I think due to other maintenance work I was doing on the db at the same time (packing bloated db tables). I didn't think this could happen, but it did so live and learn (not that I can reproduce the failure...)
[01:39] <stub> Packing and the rosetta table refactoring shrunk our db from 95GB to 65GB. I expect it to get even smaller after the upgrade to PostgreSQL 8.2 as there is still plenty more bloat to remove.
[01:39] <stub> Everything else is as normal.
[01:39] <stub> Any questions?
[01:40] <stub>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:40] <kiko> stub, what time UTC did the rollout end?
[01:40] <kiko> I ask because I want to inspect some +translate oopses
[01:41] <BjornT> Malone 1.0:
[01:41] <BjornT> malone-essential-docs: No progress since last week. bjornt still to send an e-mail to matthew r describing what information the different sections should contain in more detail.
[01:41] <stub> kiko: I don't remember - it sort of dribbled off by about 10:30 UTC I think
[01:41] <carlos> yeah, around that time
[01:41] <flacoste> SupportTrackerRename: mostly complete, missing database renames and some doc. URL rename will land after 1.0 rollout
[01:41] <danilos> kiko: I ran into a bunch of +translate oopses after the rollout, so if they are for sr language, they were after the rollout
[01:41] <carlos> at least I was able to use launchpad around that time
[01:41] <mpt> UI 1.0: Implementation stalled while tackling "snag" lists. PillarGotchis still noticably incomplete.
[01:41] <kiko> thanks
[01:41] <danilos> Rosetta 1.0  weekly report:
[01:41] <danilos> - firefox import/export: rewrite evaluation in progress
[01:41] <danilos> - oo import/export: no progress this week
[01:41] <danilos> - essential docs: no progress this week
[01:41] <danilos> - TranslationImportContinuityThreshold: no progress this week
[01:41] <danilos> - UI stuff: bug 79674 (no progress, start page modified, new page missing)
[01:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79674 in rosetta "List translatable upstreams on separate page, sample on front page" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79674 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[01:42] <stub> soyuz?
[01:42] <ddaa> Code 1.0: low latency work released, now time from upload to publish and scan of a branch should be between 1 and 5 minutes.
[01:42] <kiko> mpt, what is missing for pillargotchis to work?
[01:42] <ddaa> (about 2-3 minutes most of the time)
[01:43] <mpt> kiko, inserting them where the big orange squares are now.
[01:43] <stub> any more reports? two minutes to go...
[01:43] <mpt> kiko, some sampledata would be good too.
[01:43] <salgado> mpt, there's one last change that's being reviewed now and then the Gotchis will be actually used in the pages where they should. I need to point that this change was needed because something was not accounted in the spec
[01:44] <SteveA> mpt: let's have a UI catch up your morning tomorrow (my evening)
[01:44] <mpt> salgado, cool
[01:44] <mpt> SteveA, ok
[01:44] <stub>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:44] <mpt> #92, about keeping the 503 page up to date
[01:44] <stub> That also involves getting the 503 page served by apache rather than pound
[01:45] <stub> (is that the same rt issue?)
[01:45] <mpt> yes
[01:45] <stub> That one has been open for maybe a year now...
[01:45] <mpt> Hence the reminder ;-)
[01:45] <kiko> hey stub, can you give me back my devpad to staging db access?
[01:45] <kiko> it appears that was lost when it was migrated
[01:45] <stub> SteveA: Can you poke elmo to reassign it to someone who has time for it?
[01:46] <mrevell> I have #26822, Create about.launchpad.net
[01:46] <mrevell> and #26785 Setup of planet.bazaar-vcs.org and installation of Planet Planet
[01:46] <stub> mrevell: Are you handling it, or do you need anyone else here to help?
[01:47] <stub> (as in chasing the admins as needed)
[01:47] <mrevell> stub: I spoke to Ng last night who said they were snowed under, so not to expect anything soon.
[01:47] <mrevell> stub: I'll keep prodding them.
[01:47] <stub>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[01:47] <mrevell> Monday's proposed downtime plus the actual downtime on Wednesday, and the resulting confusion as to whether Feisty translations are open or not, make me think we need a way of making announcements in the interface. I suggest they should appear to each user once, and we should be able to choose which tool they appear in (e.g. a Feisty translations announcement would go on translations pages).
[01:47] <mrevell> I'd like to discuss this with mpt, and anyone else that's interested. I haven't found an existing spec that does exactly this.
[01:48] <stub> I suspect that won't be a 1.0 issue, so we can spec this at the next sprint?
[01:48] <stub> SteveA, kiko?
[01:48] <mpt> mrevell, I actually owe SteveA a spec on pretty much exactly that issue.
[01:49] <SteveA> there is a spec for annoucements already
[01:49] <SteveA> please extend that one
[01:49] <SteveA> rather than write a new one
[01:49] <mrevell> Okay, thanks all.
[01:49] <stub>  * Launchpad buzz report (mrevell)
[01:49] <mrevell> Buzz report is posted to the launchpad list. I haven't had time this week to include the improved metrics, but will for next week.
[01:49] <stub>  * Beta performance issues - distro team members report very long page loading times (heno)
[01:50] <stub> So the user experience is slower on beta.
[01:50] <heno> right
[01:51] <heno> just loading a bug page for example
[01:51] <Hobbsee> stub: so it *isnt* just my imagination!
[01:51] <heno> both before and after it was moved to the production server
[01:51] <stub> SteveA: was going to mention two things that could be done immediately
[01:51] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, turn on SSL caching. It makes it better.
[01:52] <heno> most of us already have that enabled
[01:52] <stub> But he appears to be asleep, so we can discuss what-we-can-do-about-it after this meeting, now running overtime
[01:52] <mpt> "Welcome to Launchpad, here's how to hack your browser to work around our lack of speed"
[01:52] <stub>  * Three sentences
[01:53] <mpt> DONE: 1.0 cleanup, bug-fixing, DesignChecklist
[01:53] <mpt> TODO: more cleanup, pillar index pages, integrate the tour at some stage
[01:53] <mpt> BLOCKED: no
[01:53] <mrevell> DONE: Prioritising work, wrote business-targeted Bazaar brochure, wrote documentation, worked on 1.0 support materials spec, visited London office, prepared for Launchpad/Bzr involvement in Ubuntu open week, buzz report.
[01:53] <mrevell> TODO: Finish support materials spec, chase RT requests, write more docs, write beta reviewer's guide, arrange weekly LP user meeting, improve buzz report metrics, 1.0 marketing site content, revamp help.launchpad.net home page, identify conferences where LP and Bazaar talks can happen, produce list of pain points in open source development that are solved by LP.
[01:53] <mrevell> BLOCKED: None.
[01:53] <SteveA> yeah, I have a branch that makes pages appear to load faster by changing the order of script+css includes.  the other thing is to combine JS+CSS files into one big file for each of JS and CSS.  Plone does this, easy to arrange without actually combining files in the source tree.
[01:53] <cprov> DONE: PPA sprint, NSS spec
[01:53] <cprov> TODO: PPA dogfooding, NSS implementation, remove warty/hoary, rebuilds list for doko
[01:53] <cprov> BLOCKED: no
[01:53] <stub> DONE: Production stuff, some OpenID
[01:53] <stub> TODO: OpenID
[01:53] <stub> BLOCKED: No
[01:53] <ddaa> DONE: delivered low-latency supermirror, some complete-revisions cleanup, check-content-interface for code.
[01:53] <ddaa> TODO: finish complete-revisions cleanup, other outstanding branches.
[01:53] <ddaa> BLOCKED: review of launchpad/branchrevision
[01:53] <bac> DONE: work on UL abstract, investigate test failures, look at test structure, read z3 docs, bzr doc changes
[01:53] <bac> TODO: customer data import, setup local test bugzilla, coordinate LP talks for UL
[01:53] <bac> BLOCKED: None
[01:53] <statik> DONE: PyCon, catching up
[01:53] <statik> TODO: Trip report, following up with customer leads, restart work on downloads
[01:53] <statik> Blocked: no
[01:53] <flacoste> DONE: bug fixes, review, Answer Tracker URL renaming, Respect our Interfaces manifesto, some OOPs gardening
[01:53] <flacoste> TODO: UI bug fixes, reviews, finish SupportTrackerRename, write SupportFAQSpec
[01:53] <flacoste> BLOCKED: no
 DONE: Fixed race condition in supermirrorsftp acceptance tests (needs-review). Friendlier puller error messages (merge-approved). Better formatting and links to bugs in commit messages (needs-reply).
 TODO: Pagetest for branch-index.pt; Make the scanner look for revprops to link bugs.
 BLOCKED: No.
[01:53] <spiv> DONE: bzr smart server, test weirdness with jml, reviews
[01:53] <spiv> TODO: reviews, bzr
[01:53] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[01:53] <matsubara> DONE: back from vacation, huge email backlog, fixed #88531 and #86966, triage and support gardening
[01:53] <jamesh> DONE: finish off sprint, recover from jet lag, code review
[01:53] <BjornT> DONE: code reviews. work on getting a bunch of branches landed. fixed #48771 and #84847.
[01:53] <jamesh> TODO: code review, start on Storm integration, bug imports
[01:53] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
 DONE: tag cloud implemention of projects with code, branch view refactoring,  started work on dbschema refactoring, branch table cleanup (pending db unfreeze
 TODO: finalise requirements for launchpad dogfooding (wrt visibility of branches and commit messages), finish dbschema refactoring
 BLOCKED: email notifications is waiting on complete-revisions work landing as it cleans up bzrsync *a lot*, also redirection-navigation branch is blocked on SteveA review.
[01:53] <BjornT> TODO: code reviews. fix 1.0 ui bugs.
[01:53] <matsubara> TODO: more triage, oops analysis, work on oops-tools re-design
[01:53] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[01:53] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[01:53] <SteveA> DONE: pycon
[01:53] <SteveA> TODO: ui, recruitment, management
[01:53] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[01:53] <salgado> DONE: Fixed a bunch of high priority bugs, started the new table of contributions for people's home page, code review, some mirror prober testing/tweaking and some work on shipit for feisty
[01:53] <salgado> TODO: Land the final PillarGotchi changes,more shipit work, finish other 1.0 bugs, more code review
[01:53] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[01:53] <danilos> DONE: Back from sprint/vacation, catching up with email, port firefox support to new db schema, evaluate firefox altid removal, some testing, discussions
[01:53] <danilos> TODO: Decide what to do with Firefox support, work on OOo support
[01:53] <danilos> BLOCKED: no
[01:54] <stub> ddaa and thumper are both blocked on review.
[01:54] <kiko> DONE: vacation, interviews, email catch-up (still ongoing), coding assistance for select people
[01:54] <kiko> TODO: more interviews, finish email catch-up, look at my branches
[01:54] <kiko> BLOCKED: no
[01:54] <stub> How is our review queue looking?
[01:54] <salgado> BAD!
[01:54] <carlos> DONE: Feisty translations opening, DB Schema migration, bug #78907, some help text added to Rosetta, tickets handling, bug #87525, Feisty translation import babysitting
[01:54] <carlos> TODO: Feisty translations babysitting, more help text writting, bug triage, find and fix trivial bugs in Rosetta.
[01:54] <carlos> BLOCKED: No
[01:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78907 in rosetta "distrorelease.txt test has a time bomb" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78907 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87525 in rosetta ""New translation" box out of screen (dup-of: 84361)" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87525 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84361 in rosetta "New translation form is too-wide" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84361 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:55] <ddaa> stub: I can work around the lack of review of branchrevision, but it would be needless work, esp. since the blocking review is near-trivial.
[01:55] <ddaa> I did separate this branch out to make the reviews easier :(
[01:55] <stub> ddaa: Can you nag a reviewer to do it, or have you had no success at that?
[01:55] <ddaa> asked spiv, who's the assignee, before going to bed yesterday
[01:55] <BjornT> ddaa: my review queue is empty, and can review that branch if spiv won't do it.
[01:56] <stub> Do you know if thumper's is trivial?
[01:56] <ddaa> cannot do much more when my reviewer lives on the other side of the planet
[01:56] <spiv> BjornT: I'm not going to get to it before my tomorrow, so if you'd like to that'd be good.
[01:56] <ddaa> stub: probably not trivial
[01:56] <ddaa> BjornT: please review it
[01:56] <stub> Sounds good. So just thumpers may be problematic.
[01:56] <ddaa> should take you about 10 minutes
[01:56] <stub> Any volunteers for thumpers?
[01:57] <jamesh> I was pair programming with thumper to do that branch, so shouldn't take it
[01:57] <flacoste> stub: nope, i have one from thumper
[01:57] <stub> (almost)
[01:57] <flacoste> a big one 
[01:57] <flacoste> but I can take another one
[01:58] <flacoste> yeah, why not, I can take a look at redirection-navigation
[01:58] <flacoste> i've dig a lot in navigation code this week
[01:58] <stub> ok. MEETING OVER
[01:58] <stub> Sorry about the overtime
[01:59] <kiko> cool
[01:59] <lifeless> jamesh: can you oin #ubuntu-kernel please?
[01:59] <mpt> Hobbsee, I've done so before, but this morning I'm too grouchy
[01:59] <lifeless> or better yet,
[01:59] <mpt> SteveA, I should be back in 5~6 hours
[01:59] <lifeless> salgado: can you join #ubuntu-kernel please ?
[01:59] <Hobbsee> mpt: ahhh
[02:00] <SteveA> flacoste: we should have a call about that, because I'll be doing other work on the navigation code soon
[02:00] <flacoste> SteveA: about thumper's review or about navigation code in general?
[02:01] <bac> SteveA: do you have time for a short call today?
[02:01] <stub> SteveA: Can you discuss with people ideas about speeding up the beta experience?
[02:01] <SteveA> flacoste: navigation code in general
[02:01] <SteveA> bac: maybe... today is not so good, as I only just got back home
[02:01] <ddaa> mpt: can you triage bug 81507, please?
[02:01] <Ubugtu> Bug 81507 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/81507 is private
[02:02] <bac> SteveA: ok.
[02:02] <SteveA> stub: first low-hanging fruit is to serve up only one JS and one CSS file (although keep separate files on disk), and adjust the order script and CSS files are loaded
[02:02] <flacoste> SteveA: ok, let me know when you want to discuss that
[02:02] <SteveA> stub: next, ensure that all images have sizes in the img tags
[02:02] <stub> SteveA: Are there bugs open on these ideas yet?
[02:02] <SteveA> stub: no, I'm still researching them
[02:02] <mpt> SteveA, do we have more than one CSS file currently?
[02:03] <SteveA> mpt: I think I combined them into one already
[02:03] <mpt> I didn't notice
[02:03] <SteveA> mpt: so this may be just for the JS files
[02:03] <mpt> ok
[02:03] <SteveA> but the same technique works for both
[02:03] <stub> SteveA: ok. So you will task people when you have confirmed the way forward
[02:03] <stub> ?
[02:03] <SteveA> after that there's some fancy stuff to look into with lazy importing of JS
[02:04] <SteveA> stub: yes
[02:04] <mpt> SteveA, I think setting <img> sizes hasn't really affected perceived speed since people stopped using NS4
[02:04] <SteveA> sure it does
[02:04] <SteveA> it allows the page to be laid out accurately
[02:05] <kiko> mpt, it avoids future reflows, doesn't it?!
[02:05] <SteveA> I need to go afk for a while
[02:05] <mpt> kiko, and reflows don't affect perceived speed. If the lack of sizes delays the *initial* layout, that's a problem.
[02:05] <SteveA> anything urgent before I do?
[02:06] <mpt> From here in NZ, it seems like a lot of the slowness is the browser waiting for the entire style sheet to arrive before daring to lay out anything at all.
[02:07] <mpt> Because sometimes it gives up temporarily on the style sheet and I get a fouc.
[02:07] <kiko> mpt, when you activate ssl caching does that problem go away?
[02:07] <kiko> (I'm not suggesting that as a solution but using it to debug)
[02:08] <Fujitsu> kiko: I find that I will get an entirely blank window for 30 seconds unless I enable SSL caching, which hints that it is taking its time to download the CSS.
[02:08] <kiko> Fujitsu, but it's still slow even with the caching?
[02:08] <mpt> kiko, I don't know, I haven't tried, and I'm not sure what it would tell you (doesn't SSL make CSS and non-CSS equally slower?)
[02:09] <mpt> Anyway, I really need to get some sleep
[02:09] <Fujitsu> It's still slower than is ideal, but a whole lot better, and it seems to be loading the actual page that takes the time then.
[02:09] <SteveA> the other option is to inline the CSS
[02:09] <kiko> mpt, it would tell us whether the problem is that fetching inline content is what's causing the slowness.
[02:09] <SteveA> which plone does also
[02:09] <Fujitsu> As in, there is some kind of display almost immediately with caching on.
[02:09] <kiko> SteveA, that would promote significant overhead for every single page wouldn't it?
[02:09] <SteveA> not really
[02:10] <SteveA> it just moves the loading of two files with a delay between them (page+css)
[02:10] <lifeless> night
[02:10] <mpt> kiko, I don't understand what you mean by "fetching inline content"
[02:10] <SteveA> into one larger file (page)
[02:10] <SteveA> with no delay
[02:10] <kiko> mpt, fetching inline content referred from the main html page?
[02:10] <SteveA> as we're still tied to using https all the time, inlining the CSS will almost certainly help
[02:10] <mpt> kiko, if it's inline, why does it need to be fetched?
[02:11] <SteveA> kiko: you're not using the word "inline" in a conventional way
[02:11] <kiko> okay
[02:11] <lifeless> jamesh: please apply my patch to pending-reviews
[02:11] <Fujitsu> SteveA: Inlining would remove the benefit gained by enabling caching.
[02:11] <kiko> SteveA, I mean "inline" as in stuff which the page needs to get to fully render.
[02:12] <kiko> but I don't know inglish
[02:12] <kiko> and anyway, inlining CSS and JS sounds crazy if you ask me
[02:12] <mpt> kiko, if the browser is asking for anything it *doesn't* need to fully render the page, IMO that's a bug :-)
[02:12] <kiko> unless the bottleneck we're talking about is really the time it takes to make the http transaction
[02:13] <SteveA> kiko: comparative profiling will tell, and that's what I've been doing
[02:13] <kiko> mpt, I think you and I are talking past each other
[02:13] <SteveA> so, I'm not all that interested in speculation, but rather profile data
[02:13] <mpt> kiko, please tell me what you're referring to. CSS? Images? JavaScript?
[02:13] <kiko> mpt, yes, all of those.
[02:14] <mpt> Okay. So fetching anything is what's causing the slowness.
[02:14] <mpt> :-)
[02:14] <kiko> mpt, SteveA: maybe an interesting data point is how fast bugs-text loads.
[02:14] <jamesh> the reason I mentioned javascript earlier is that the browser can't render any more of the page til it gets retrieved
[02:15] <jamesh> since it may contain document.write() calls that would alter how the remainder of the page gets interpreted
[02:15] <kiko> i.e. https://beta.launchpad.net/bugs/47227/+text
[02:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47227 in launchpad "Duplicate team notifications for owner" [Medium,Fix released]   - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[02:16] <jamesh> so if the JS isn't being cached properly, we're looking at 4 includes vs. 2 includes
[02:16] <mpt> So whether inlining saves time depends on which is greater: the amount of time reduced by fewer HTTPS requests+handshakes, or the amount of time lost by no longer being served multiple resources simultaneously.
[02:17] <mpt> Really bedtime now.
[02:17] <jamesh> mpt: it is also trading initial page load performance for performance when browsing the rest of the site
[02:17] <jamesh> (caching)
[02:18] <mpt> jamesh, there is no caching
[02:19] <jamesh> mpt: firefox does cache SSL content in memory though, right?
[02:19] <jamesh> by default
[02:20] <mpt> It keeps a copy in memory, in the sense that it won't reload if you resize the window
[02:20] <mpt> But it doesn't use that copy as a cache
[02:21] <mpt> This discussion has a decidedly curved trajectory...
[02:31] <janimo> can anyone here add new distros to https://launchpad.net/distros?
[03:23] <carlos> janimo: any launchpad admin
[03:24] <carlos> janimo: but there should be a really good reason to do that
[03:24] <janimo> carlos, I just mailed kiko, thanks
[03:24] <janimo> carlos: well a reason is using malone for an Ubuntu derivative. Is that ok?
[03:25] <carlos> I guess
[03:25] <carlos> yes
[03:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #4153 in malone "Allow mass reassignment of bugs to someone" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4153
[03:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #41702 in malone "Allow mass changing of bugs' statuses" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/41702
[04:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #43231 in malone "Hovering over a row in bug and question listing should highlight the row" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/43231
[05:03] <EmxBA> my karma dropped from 3590 to 2198, and I worked last weeks
[05:03] <EmxBA> why has that occured?
[05:04] <beuno> EmxBA: I've had a karma drop too today, I'm not sure why
[05:32] <alex_muntada> EmxBA, beuno: https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaReductionJan07
[05:33] <EmxBA> ok
[05:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #88991 in launchpad "Display total karma points as well as the karma rating on a person's page" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88991
[05:59] <th1a> I seem to be getting an oops whenever I assign a bug to a particular user.
[06:00] <th1a> The oops id is OOPS-425BA416.
[06:06] <carlos> th1a: that's something we are working on
[06:07] <carlos> th1a: https://launchpad.net/malone/+bug/86352
[06:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86352 in malone "SchoolTool imported bugs have invalid reporters" [High,Confirmed]  
[06:11] <th1a> carlos: Wow, you guys are way ahead of me.
[07:43] <mpt> SteveA, voice call?
[08:56] <jelmer> hmm, the links in the beta for "Register New Project" actually redirect to the new product registration page
[08:57] <jelmer> Guessing the URL, https://beta.launchpad.net/projects/+new gives a 403
[08:57] <kiko> jelmer, isn't it +add?
[08:57] <kiko> oh, 403.
[08:57] <kiko> jelmer, you need to ask me to create projects, essentially
[08:58] <jelmer> kiko: any chance you can create "samba" ?
[08:59] <jelmer> (or samba-project, as products and projects seem to share the same namespace)
[08:59] <kiko> samba-project, sure.
[09:01] <kiko> jelmer: https://beta.launchpad.net/samba-project
[09:01] <jelmer> kiko: thanks v much!
[09:01] <kiko> no probs
[09:03] <beuno> quick question, the beta of launchpad is not open for testing, right?
[09:03] <kiko> beuno, it's open for testing, yes.
[09:03] <beuno> kiko: how can I help?     my regular login info doesn't seem to work
[09:04] <kiko> beuno, have you applied to join the launchpad-beta team?
[09:05] <beuno> I have now  :)
[09:07] <mrevell> beuno: If you could email me promising not to post screenshots of the beta interface, I'll approve your membership straight away.
[09:08] <mdke> never give your soul away to mrevell 
[09:08] <mrevell> mdke: sssshhh, I'm building a nice collection :)
[09:09] <beuno> lol
[09:10] <mdke> yeah, it's not binding anyway
[09:11] <beuno> mrevell: done
[09:11] <mrevell> Guys, I want to run a weekly Launchpad users meeting, in this channel. I was thinking of starting next week, on Wednesday at 17:00 UTC, as that way all of the North and South America should be awake, Europe is around, but it doesn't seem too good forAustralasia, etc.
[09:11] <mrevell> I was thinking of Weds because our Launchpad team meeting is in this channel the next day.
[09:11] <mrevell> beuno: thanks
[09:12] <beuno> mrevell: thank you  ;)
[09:12] <beuno> I've seen a few screenshots already
[09:12] <beuno> it looks nice
[09:12] <beuno> (ironically, on some blog)
[09:12] <mrevell> beuno: Okay, cool, please visit beta.launchpad.net :)
[09:12] <mrevell> beuno: Interesting. Do you remember where?
[09:13] <beuno> mrevell: I can check, but I'm pretty sure I say it on the Ubuntu Planet RSS
[09:14] <mrevell> mpt: 17:00 UTC is a bad time for your part of the world, yeah?
[09:14] <mrevell> beuno: Ah right, yeah.
[09:14] <mrevell> beuno: I remember.
[09:17] <beuno> mrevell: I get redirected to beta.launchpad.net now always, right?
[09:18] <mrevell> beuno: Yeah, that's right. Although, if you visit launchpad.net you can click a button to disable redirection for two hours
[09:18] <beuno> looks VERY nice
[09:18] <beuno> very web 2.0
[09:20] <mrevell> beuno: Glad you like it :)
[09:20] <beuno> mrevell: I do web-dev for a living, so if I can help out with and CSS or javascript, I'd be honored
[09:20] <mrevell> beuno: Are you a member of the launchpad-users list? It's not particularly high traffic, but it's good place to talk about your experiences with the beta interface.
[09:21] <beuno> mrevell: I suscribed 5 min ago
[09:21] <mrevell> beuno: Thanks for the offer! I'm probably not the person to speak to about that, though.
[09:21] <mdke> mrevell: how far away from being complete is it?
[09:21] <beuno> np, I'll keep my eye on the mailing list to see if I can pitch in
[09:21] <mdke> personally, I think it's crowded and awkward at the same time, so I'm hoping it's got a fair amount of work left to do on it
[09:22] <mdke> the basic structure is good and the general layout is improved, but the workflow is actually much slower
[09:22] <mrevell> mdke: It's certainly still in development, hence the beta status.
[09:22] <LarstiQ> old-style lp feels like more breathing room
[09:22] <beuno> the one thing I noticed is that fonts are a lot smaller
[09:22] <mdke> mrevell: sure, but there is beta nearly-ready and beta loads-more-work-needed
[09:22] <thumper> wrt bug 82938, branch that fixes this is under review
[09:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82938 in launchpad-bazaar "The ~vcs-imports/+registeredbranches page exceeded its hardlimit and is now broken." [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82938 - Assigned to Tim Penhey (thumper)
[09:22] <mrevell> I actually think the new LP will make much more sense to people who haven't seen the old LP
[09:23] <mrevell> and it'll naturally take a while to get used to the new interface.
[09:23] <mdke> well, I'm not sure about that myself
[09:23] <pochu> beuno: yeah, and in some places, it's really small :) (known issue)
[09:23] <mrevell> I know you've raised some issues on launchpad-users mdke
[09:23] <mdke> mrevell: no, I haven't commented on the beta at all yet
[09:24] <mrevell> mdke: Really? I'm sure I'd seen you mention an issue with smaller resolutions.
[09:24] <mdke> not me, I don't think
[09:24] <mrevell> mdke: Okay, sorry.
[09:24] <mdke> no worries?
[09:25] <mrevell> We'd love to get your feedback on launchpad-users.
[09:25] <pochu> mrevell: there has been another general karma reduction, right?
[09:25] <mrevell> That's why we're inviting people to the beta :)
[09:26] <mrevell> If you'd prefer not to send comments to launchpad-users, please email me directly (my nick at canonical.com)
[09:26] <mdke> I haven't had time lately
[09:26] <LarstiQ> pochu: not one I'm aware of
[09:26] <mrevell> mdke: Tell me about it
[09:26] <mdke> but anyway, it's going in the right direction, I was just hoping it's going to have lots more time to fix the crowded issues
[09:27] <mrevell> pochu: Has your karma been reduced?
[09:27] <pochu> mrevell: my, and some others
[09:27] <mrevell> mdke: If you do find time, it'd be great to have your feedback.
[09:27] <pochu> mrevell: and not a little because the time
[09:27] <mrevell> pochu: Suddenly?
[09:27] <mdke> sure
[09:27] <pochu> mrevell: since yesterday or tuesday
[09:27] <mrevell> mdke: I'll be down in London next week if you wanna meet up and tell me in person :)
[09:27] <pochu> mrevell: (more or less)
[09:28] <mdke> mrevell: I haven't had much time to use it either, that's really why I haven't commented
[09:28] <mrevell> salgado: pochu has reported a karma reduction for both himself and some other people.
[09:28] <mrevell> mdke: aha :)
[09:28] <mrevell> salgado: Has there been a karma reduction that you know of?
[09:28] <thumper> flacoste: thanks for taking that navigation branch
[09:29] <beuno> my karma has been reduced today too
[09:29] <thumper> it will clean up branch navigation so it matches download and code browsing
[09:29] <beuno> by 120 points or so
[09:29] <pochu> mrevell, salgado: and I can prove it :)
[09:29] <pochu> beuno: 120 about how many?
[09:29] <thumper> beuno: AFAIK karma reduces over time
[09:29] <beuno> yes, but, that much?
[09:29] <flacoste> thumper: my pleasure, i found it very interesting, I've been looking at that code a lot this week as I worked on the answer tracker url renaming
[09:29] <beuno> I had translated a lot yesterday
[09:29] <pochu> thumper: yeah, but not a 20-30% in one day
[09:29] <thumper> I'm not sure by how much
[09:29] <mrevell> thumper: Yeah, pochu reports a sudden drop
[09:29] <beuno> so I expected an overal increase
[09:30] <beuno> I've got around 2000
[09:30] <pochu> mrevell: 1/365 a day
[09:30] <pochu> I think
[09:30] <beuno> so 120 + the translations I did yesterday has to be 15%
[09:30] <beuno> also: <EmxBA> my karma dropped from 3590 to 2198, and I worked last weeks
[09:30] <beuno>  why has that occured?
[09:30] <beuno> that was 4 hours ago here
[09:31] <mrevell> Karma is a reflection of your overall contribution, rather than a cumulative total that increases each time you do something. However, it's worth seeing if salgado is aware of anything that might have caused a drop.
[09:32] <beuno> a 3590 to 2198 seems like a big drop
[09:33] <mpt> mrevell, that's 6am
[09:33] <mpt> hummm, SteveA still isn't around
[09:33] <salgado> mrevell, pochu, beuno, yeah, that's probably a consequence of fixing a bug which I'll find the number in a second
[09:34] <beuno> salgado: so the karma was previously showing more then it really was?
[09:34] <flacoste> salgado: did my reply to your review question satisfied you?
[09:34] <salgado> exactly
[09:35] <salgado> pochu, mrevell, beuno, that's bug 87314
[09:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87314 in launchpad "Distros top contributors are duplicated" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87314 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[09:35] <mrevell> mpt: I'm looking for a good time to run the Launchpad users meeting. I was thinking Wednesdays, as that would allow us to discuss issues in the following day's LP meeting
[09:35] <salgado> I didn't think this extra values we had were being accounted when calculating the total karma
[09:36] <mrevell> mpt: I can't do late night Wednesdays thought :(
[09:36] <mpt> mrevell, an hour later would work
[09:36] <mrevell> mpt: Yeah. 20:00 UTC would probably be good for just about everyone in the world, though, except me on a Wednesday :)
[09:37] <beuno> salgado: that explains it then, thanks
[09:37] <mrevell> mpt: 18:00 would be kinda early for Australia, though, I think, wouldn't it?
[09:37] <beuno> maybe it should be in the topic?   a lot of ppl will come in here wondering
[09:37] <salgado> flacoste, saw it just now, but I don't undestand what you said about IQuestionTarget/IQuestionCollection
[09:38] <mrevell> salgado: Do you know, roughly, how many people are affected by it?
[09:38] <flacoste> salgado: the (btw...) part?
[09:38] <salgado> flacoste, yep
[09:38] <mpt> mrevell, yes, the wee small hours
[09:38] <mpt> Anytime sucks for *somebody*
[09:38] <salgado> mrevell, everybody
[09:39] <mpt> https://launchpad.canonical.com/MeetingTimes
[09:39] <pochu> salgado: that was my bug xD
[09:39] <pochu> salgado: hehe, I didn't know that would reduce the karma :)
[09:39] <pochu> salgado: ty ;)
[09:39] <flacoste> salgado: it's just that I noticed that the view is named IQuestionCollection but that I made sure that the context was adaptable to IQuestionTarget which is more restrictive than necessary
[09:40] <salgado> launchpad is very impartial; it doesn't care who you are when it comes to dropping your karma points
[09:40] <mrevell> salgado: aha, okay, an announcement will be good, then
[09:40] <mrevell> salgado: I'll put something together
[09:40] <salgado> mrevell, this drop should not be as big as the previous one, though
[09:40] <mrevell> salgado: Okay.
[09:41] <salgado> flacoste, ah, right, so the context will be adapted to an IQuestionCollection?
[09:41] <flacoste> salgado: yep
[09:42] <salgado> fair enough. I also thought it could be a good idea to mention why that view is necessary, since it looks like overkill when you first see it
[09:43] <flacoste> salgado: ok, I'll add a comment about that in its docstring
[10:04] <beuno> mrevell: already started using the mailing list  :D
[10:05] <beuno> ah, it's a moderated list
[10:05] <mrevell> beuno: Nice one, thanks and welcome :)
[10:06] <mrevell> beuno: No worries, I'll let your post through now.
[10:06] <beuno> thanks
[10:06] <mrevell> beuno: It's only moderated for first posts, as we get a lot of ShipIt requests.
[10:06] <beuno> I'm trying to get the UWN back out, it might be interesting to inform on all the work being done on launchpad beta
[10:07] <beuno> do you think it's possible?
[10:08] <mrevell> beuno: That'd be superb
[10:09] <mrevell> beuno: How do you want to do it? Wanna swap some emails or have a phone call or an irc chat?
[10:09] <mrevell>  beuno: you've definitely joined launchpad-users yeah? I can't see your mail in the mod queue
[10:11] <mrevell> beuno: stupid me. I didn't recognise your email address. Your email should have gone through now
[10:13] <mrevell> right, I'm off for some family time. beuno mail me about the UWN thing
[10:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #89043 in rosetta "rosetta shouldn't display "change translators" if I don't have permissions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89043
[12:01] <sistpoty> lifeless: around? just saw your comments to bug #89059... 
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89059 in bzr "remove older bzr revisions on bazaar.launchpad.net" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89059
[12:02] <lifeless> yup
[12:02] <sistpoty> lifeless: what we intend to do is to use bazaar (and thus lp) as a reviewing system
[12:03] <sistpoty> so that possible contributors will checkin their new packages (or changed versions to exisiting packages) and motu's will review them
[12:03] <lifeless> yes
[12:03] <sistpoty> so that'd mean to give possible unknown ppl. commit rights
[12:03] <lifeless> I get that, I dont get why you want to tie that to access to the actual branch uploads are done from
[12:04] <lifeless> just tell people to use their own branch 
[12:04] <sistpoty> well, we want one centralized list with packages that need to get reviewed
[12:04] <sistpoty> (which would in this case be https://code.launchpad.net/~revu/+branches)
[12:05] <lifeless> I think you are trying to leverage a system designed for one thing to do a different thing
[12:05] <lifeless> and its not a good fit
[12:05] <lifeless> teams are for access control, not for managing branch state
[12:06] <lifeless> what I think you want is covered by having distro-branches (which is coming to lp soon), and in-lp reviews (also coming)
[12:06] <sistpoty> ok, so you think the whole idea is a bad one?
[12:07] <lifeless> I think the intent is a good one
[12:07] <lifeless> I think the plan to use 'branch is owned by ~revu' to group branches is flawed
[12:07] <lifeless> if you wanted to make something work in the current launchpad infrastructure, use a /product/ called revu
[12:08] <lifeless> each contributor then has ~user/revu/branchname 
[12:08] <lifeless> once distro branches are done, you will be able to do this by sourcepackage.
[12:08] <lifeless> thumper: ^ this is in the pipeline right ?
[12:09] <sistpoty> hm... but this would mean that we could end up with n branches for the same sourcepackage for n contributors, right?
[12:09] <lifeless> sistpoty: what I'm really saying is that there is no security hole here, its 'if you grant someone access to change your data; they can change your data'
[12:10] <sistpoty> lifeless: sorry if I wrote that wrong, I already tried to point out in the bug report that the security hole is in our process, not in the infrastructure
[12:10] <lifeless> sistpoty: this is entirely appropriate - for contributors that are not yet trusted
[12:10] <sistpoty> well, but it makes lifes of reviewers harder
[12:10] <lifeless> how?
[12:11] <sistpoty> let's say contributor a, b, and c work together on one source package
[12:11] <sistpoty> they have different branches, so a reviewer would possibly need to select which the right head branch is
[12:11] <sistpoty> (or it would at least not be clear from the beginning)
[12:12] <lifeless> sistpoty: how often does this actually happen ?
[12:12] <sistpoty> currently is rather seldom, because we use revu to which you upload source packages
[12:13] <lifeless> also, whats the actual room for damage in having everything in one account, if you are using gpg signed commits?
[12:13] <sistpoty> but the plan is to have this actually be more common via bzr
[12:14] <sistpoty> the room for damage would be that one malicious "contributor" could clear the work of all others
[12:15] <thumper> lifeless: I'm not quite sure what you're asking
[12:16] <sistpoty> ok, at least we've got s.th. to think about now... mind if I mail that to dholbach and the rest of MC?