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wolfeonI've a question about regulations and policies about software included in Ubuntu12:35
wolfeonShouldn't an author's personal rants be taken out of software when available to the user?12:36
wolfeonxchm for instance, the guy goes on the "use gpl, anyone else is ignorant" spreee12:36
wolfeonwould it be too bold of me to file a bug in launchpad so people may talk about it?12:37
cjwatsonwe have no policy covering that, and we'd only take the risk of aggravating the upstream author by removing it if it were particularly egregious and offensive12:39
wolfeoncjwatson: this is free software though. Isn't the point of Ubuntu to make the distrobution the best user oritented there is? the author's rant is nothing but flame bait/a troll12:40
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Chipzzwolfeon: and how does a troll change the quality of ubuntu?12:44
Chipzzmost people will never even read it12:44
wolfeonChipzz: seeing the rant for 2-5 seconds every time I open a chm is getting very irritating12:44
Chipzzthan use gnochm?12:45
wolfeonI think there was a reason for not using it12:45
ChipzzI use it, and it opens my whole collection of ebooks :P12:45
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mc44remove the line from the source if you are that bothered. Thats the joy of free software12:45
wolfeonmc44: I'm sure others would like to take out the rant from the binary distribution...12:46
mc44if they were Im sure they have created a package for others like yourself to download12:47
wolfeonoh, that is right..12:47
wolfeongnochm doesn't position everything correctly12:47
Chipzzmc44: that doesn't take ubuntu updates into account though12:48
mc44Chipzz: they could submit such a package to the motu. Im sure the delta from debian would be soooo worth it.12:48
Chipzzwolfeon: iirc you can use gtkhtml and gecko in gnochm; maybe try the other rendering backend?12:48
wolfeonmc44: rants aren't in my catagory of being friendly. How'd you like one of Linus's famous troll emails to splash on your screen every time you boot ubuntu?12:48
Chipzz(I may be mistaken though)12:48
wolfeonwell one thing I do like about gnochm, it launches a browser when you click on an external link.. xchm trys rendering in the program.12:49
mjg59If you're worried about packages in universe, #ubuntu-motu may be a better bet12:50
wolfeonhmm, oh.. yes..12:50
wolfeonmc44: thank you for clue batting me12:50
mc44wolfeon: im sure you mean mjg59. But anyway :)12:51
wolfeonmc44: lazy tabber me12:51
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Fujitsudoko: Shouldn't some of those rebuilds have been build1, not ubuntu1?12:56
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AndrewBGuys, why would a package be in the repo for 6.10 but not 6.06? For instance.. ajaxterm is there for 6.10 and not 6.06, is it that nobody has packaged it up for a 6.06 system or any reason?02:06
Lathiat_it was likely only added in 6.10.02:07
AndrewBbut 6.06 is LTS so would it not be sane to add to 6.06?02:07
Lathiat_no, nothing is added to releases post release02:08
ajmitchnot particularly, and it's in universe also02:08
Lathiat_about the only exception is the -backports archives02:08
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Lathiat_and AFAIK thats just newer versions and not new packages02:08
ajmitchbeing LTS means that it doesn't get all this new stuff thrown into it02:08
AndrewBAhh that makes sense..02:08
AndrewBit is just maintained.. what packages are there..02:09
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AndrewBI am doing some wiki pages and realised that it only worked on 6.10.. and that 6.06 didn't work. What should happen there.. do I just leave as is.. or go find out how to make 6.06 work with it?02:10
_ionOr upgrade.02:10
AndrewB_ion: personally I do have 6.10. It is for the others that read said documentation.02:11
AndrewB_ion: possibly that means leave documents as is.02:12
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LaserJockAndrewB: is this on the ubuntu wiki?02:20
AndrewBLaserJock: yes.02:20
LaserJockAndrewB: you might want to ask the doc team then02:21
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=== |PrinCo| #projectoX la nueva sala en espaol para ayuda sobre temas relacionados con windows y linux ;) todo los temas/probemas sera solucionados ;);)
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bugnthecodeI'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but I was wondering what the opinions on "Beginning Linux Programming," (published by wrox) were?04:22
Hobbseebugnthecode: it's the middle of the night in europe, you're probably not going to get an answer.  maybe try #ubuntu-offtopic04:26
bugnthecodeHobbsee: thanks04:26
jdongbugnthecode: it's an interesting book to read... as is everything from wrox, about traditional Linux programming04:40
jdongPOSIX programming in general04:40
jdongIIRC it starts with a good section about bash scripting04:41
jdongthen goes into POSIX-ish C programming04:41
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Mithrandircjwatson: yes, I was done building CDs.07:36
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pittiGood morning08:02
Mithrandirhiya Martin08:02
Hobbseehey pitti, Mithrandir :)08:05
LaserJockhi pitti :-)08:05
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=== Mithrandir kicks the sync script.
=== pitti blinks
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Mithrandiryou can have positive version numbers less than zero.08:14
pittidoko: hm, from your ldbl128 change I see a lot of -Xubuntu1 versions -- shouldn't these have been -Xbuild1 ones without Maintianer: change?08:14
Mithrandirwhich is really, really crackful.08:14
HobbseeMithrandir: better would be to fix it :P08:14
Fujitsupitti: I said that this morning...08:14
StevenKMithrandir: I think the sync script is smart enough to kick back...08:14
MithrandirHobbsee: it took a while for me to work out wtf was happening.08:14
=== Fujitsu doesn't like the sound of having to look through all of them manually for Feisty+1.
Hobbseeheh, i'll bet!08:15
Mithrandir[Nothing to update]  blktrace (0 [ubuntu]  >= 0~git-20061221162513-3 [debian] )08:16
StevenKsteven@liquified:~% dpkg --compare-versions 0 gt 0~git-20061221162513-3 && echo true08:18
StevenKWhich means dpkg is also on the same crack?08:18
FujitsuStevenK, that's the right comparison.08:19
FujitsuGoing by the rules, the Debian version is less.08:19
StevenKBut it looks like the sync script is doing the same comparsion...08:19
MithrandirStevenK: it's correct, but it shouldn't assume that 0 is the lowest version possible.08:19
StevenKMithrandir: But what else is there?08:20
FujitsuMithrandir: there is no lowest version possible.08:20
FujitsuShouldn't it check if it actually exists?08:20
StevenKWhat about the empty string?08:20
StevenKI don't think Policy even mentions that.08:20
FujitsuThat works.08:20
FujitsuEmpty string is lower.08:20
MithrandirStevenK: ~ is less than an empty string08:20
StevenKMithrandir: Not according to dpkg.08:21
Mithrandir: tfheen@thosu ~ > dpkg --compare-versions '~' lt "" && echo true08:21
Mithrandir: tfheen@thosu ~ > dpkg --compare-versions '0~' lt "0" && echo true08:21
Fujitsu~ is greter than ''08:21
Mithrandirthat's arguably a bug.08:21
FujitsuYes, that.08:21
StevenKActually, dpkg seems to just exit 1 with an empty string first.08:21
LaserJockpitti: don't know if you saw but new edubuntu-docs packages is built and ready for MIR now, when you get a chance08:21
FujitsuSurely ~ should be less than '', anyway.08:22
pittiLaserJock: ah, great; I saw mvo's ack, just upload08:22
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Mithrandirhah, the version number is buggy.08:25
Mithrandir"The upstream_version may contain only alphanumerics[33]  and the characters . + - : (full stop, plus, hyphen, colon) and should start with a digit."08:26
Mithrandirbut policy doesn't talk about ~, so it's probably lagging implementation.08:27
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Trewascjwatson: done (I was already sleeping when you asked)08:29
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dholbachgood morning08:34
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LaserJockpitti: what did you mean by "just upload"?08:48
pittiLaserJock: I mean, after a bug gets verification-done, you don't need another approval for the -updates upload08:49
LaserJockpitti: it's a MIR not an SRU08:49
pittiargh, yes; sorry, mixed that up08:49
LaserJocknp, I was just confused08:50
LaserJockI was pretty sure you didn't want me to upload it to Main :-008:50
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=== pitti fanboys mh21 and bounces
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Riddellpitti: what has he done this time?09:25
pittiRiddell: oh, nothing code-wise, just coming here to #u-d :)09:25
RiddellMithrandir: ubiquity 1.3.24 only seems to have some of its .debs in the archive this morning :(09:25
Riddellpitti: awooga09:26
MithrandirRiddell: gnr, ok09:27
MithrandirRiddell: investigating09:27
mh21pitti: hanging out with the cool guys :-P09:31
pittiurgh, 44 sync requests again?09:33
pittiMithrandir: ah, btw, are you done with syncing?09:33
Mithrandirpitti: yes, given that the single sync I wanted to do failed due to a soyuz bug.09:34
MithrandirRiddell: seems like the binaries ended up in failed-to-move; reprocessed.09:34
pittiMithrandir: negative version numbers *tsk*09:35
Mithrandirpitti: they're positive, they just happen to be less than zero.09:35
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pittiMithrandir: hm, I guess that's only valid if you wiggle the empty string into an appropriate place of the rational numbers :)09:36
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tepsipakkiMithrandir: how about that nfs-utils sync I talked about a few weeks ago?09:40
pittitepsipakki: can do, if you requestsync a bug09:41
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Mithrandirpitti: it's a new upstream version.09:42
Mithrandirtepsipakki: I haven't gotten around to looking at it yet, sorry.09:42
pittiah, NEEDSBLESSING then09:42
tepsipakkipitti: right :)09:42
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tepsipakkiit's 1.0.11, we have a git-version prior to that09:42
tepsipakkibesides it has a patch which makes root-access to work with kerberos09:43
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Kagoucjwatson: can we discuss about Bug #89069 ?10:20
UbugtuMalone bug 89069 in ubiquity "problem with time" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8906910:20
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pittiMithrandir: hm, I guess at some point I need to learn the policy about backports, too, and do them; they seem to pile up10:32
Hobbsee[20:32]  *** You set the channel topic to "Welcome to the Ubuntu Feisty Fawn support channel | Feisty is NOT stable, and not even close to usable | Feisty Herd 4 released: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd4 | Please don't use Feisty if you need a working system or you can't afford to have a broken system | Please use #ubuntu to ask questions about Dapper or  Edgy. | Xorg 7.2 has been merged, Beryl/Compiz now work.  Herd 5 is not out yet, it10:32
Hobbseewill be out 2 hours after the last person asked".10:32
Hobbseenow i can just point them to the darned topic.10:32
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RiddellMithrandir: are those ubiquity .debs likely to appear soon do you think?10:33
MithrandirRiddell: about now, I believe10:34
RiddellI'll keep pressing F5 :)10:34
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Riddellmvo: no new dist-upgrader tar?10:43
mvourgh, it went away again?!?10:44
mvoRiddell:  Iwill do another upload10:44
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cjwatsonKagou: could be related to bug 63175; what do you want to discuss beyond what's in the bug? I hadn't actually read the bug yet until you mentioned it10:45
UbugtuMalone bug 63175 in e2fsprogs "Edgy Beta -- fsck on every (re)boot" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6317510:45
mvoI get 403 for http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glibc/libc6-dev-i386_2.4-1ubuntu12.1_amd64.deb is that known?10:47
Kagoucjwatson: when ubuntu first boot (after installation), i suspect that fsck/partition  is done before setting local time isn't it ?10:48
cjwatsonbefore it's guaranteed to be set, anyway10:48
cjwatsonI don't really think a fix for this ought to be ubiquity-specific10:49
Kagoucjwatson: when ubiquity ask for localtime, does it set system time to local time ?10:50
Kagouso that explain that when it create partition and format it it do it on local time instead of system time10:50
Mithrandirfabbione: the ocfs2 one is fairly large, but if you've tested it and is happy with it, go ahead.10:50
=== Kagou is not sure to be explicite
cjwatsonKagou: not to my knowledge, no10:51
Kagoucjwatson: so why on first boot, ubuntu says that my new partitions (made by ubiquity) have date in futur ?10:51
cjwatsonKagou: I don't know. Stop grilling me about it 15 minutes after I've woken up10:51
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cjwatsonif the partitions are created in UTC, then their creation time will appear an hour later once the clock is set to UTC+110:53
cjwatsonso I can believe that that could do it, but I'm not willing to make up a fix for it on the spot - clock handling is hairy and you have to think about it carefully10:53
Riddellyay, new ubiquity in /me builds CDs10:54
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dokopitti: hmm, bug in the script ... I'll note these packages ...11:02
pittidoko: NB that my version did *not* create -buildX version11:03
pittidoko: next_version() vs. next_version_rebuild()11:03
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pittidoko: ok, that shouldn't have been necessary for the Maintainer: purposes, but I needed it for something else and left the function in11:04
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pittimvo: may I nag you about bug 85394? it's March, we need to push this urgently11:05
UbugtuMalone bug 85394 in tzdata "New timezone data 2007b" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8539411:05
pittihey seb12811:06
mvopitti: oh, sorry. it didn't show up in my search because the task for feisty was closed :/11:06
pittimvo: NB that *all* SRUs should have a fixed feisty task :)11:06
mvopitti: quite a few do not :)11:06
mvopitti: but yeah, I agree 11:07
pittimvo: I usually don't accept those11:07
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pittiexcept for cases where the bug is only about an edgy-specific sru11:07
seb128hi pitti11:08
mvopitti: I will do 85394 before lunch11:12
pittimvo: danke!11:13
mvopitti: de'rien11:13
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mvoMithrandir: could you please accept update-manager? 11:15
seb128are we rolling CD images again?11:15
StevenKpitti: Do you want to accept my edgy SRU? :-)11:19
pittiStevenK: cyrus? I just did11:20
StevenKOh nice, thanks!11:20
pittiRiddell: bug 84717, patches are good now, I updated the bug11:21
UbugtuMalone bug 84717 in update-manager "SRU: updates necessary for Kubuntu Upgrade Tool in Edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8471711:21
Riddellpitti: great, thanks11:22
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Frost^Good morning. I'd like to examine Ubuntu's boot flow. Can someone please tell me what is the first script which is ran when the system is started?11:24
seb128Mithrandir: how is herd-5 CD testing going?11:26
cjwatsonFrost^: 'init' in the initramfs (typically /initrd.img or /boot/initrd.img); you'll find a copy of the initramfs init along with related scripts in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init11:28
cjwatsonFrost^: the initramfs eventually chains to /sbin/init in the real system11:28
cjwatsonFrost^: which then (in edgy and later) does things based on job files in /etc/event.d/11:29
Frost^cjwatson: Thank you, I'll have a look.11:30
MagnusRFrost^: More about edgys new starting system can be found at http://upstart.ubuntu.com/11:30
pittiLaser_away: edubuntu-docs approved11:32
Frost^Thanks MagnusR, I've read about upstart a little already. I hope upstart being backward compatible will not complicate my understanding of it.11:32
MagnusRFrost^: Jupp Upstart is backward compatible.11:33
pitticjwatson, Mithrandir: do you have any objection against me adding /usr/lib/debootstrap/{edgy,feisty}.fakechroot scripts to debootstrap proper? that seems much more useful to me than keeping them in apport (after h5 release, of course)11:34
Frost^Thank you, this gives me plenty of information to start with.11:34
KeybukFrost^: mostly, "backwards compatible" just means that one of the upstart job is to run the old /etc/init.d/rc script11:34
Keybukupstart has a superset of the features that were provided by sysvinit through the /etc/inittab file, so it is able to perform the same actions11:35
Frost^I see. By the way, will all packages use upstart in fiesty?11:36
cjwatsonpitti: is the fakechroot patch to debootstrap less horrible than it used to be?11:36
cjwatsonpitti: oh, it's already integrated11:36
pitticjwatson: you mean the difference of the normal vs. fakechroot scripts?11:37
cjwatsonpitti: sure, no problem then11:37
pittiit's pretty tame11:37
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KeybukFrost^: no11:37
pitticjwatson: ah, yes, the _fakechroot() functions are there; it's just adding the new release scripts11:37
Frost^I see. Thanks. I'll start debugging some init scripts now :)11:39
Mithrandirmvo: there's no point; we're not rolling new CDs.11:40
Mithrandirseb128: I need to test i386 alternate, assuming that's good, we're just waiting for kubuntu.11:41
mvoMithrandir: the important point is that the dist-upgrader bit gets into the archive, it does not need to go onto the CD11:41
Mithrandirmvo: hm, ok11:41
seb128Mithrandir: ok, good11:41
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=== poningru wonders whats holding herd 5 back
dokoRiddell: kde version tests ...12:01
Keybuk<Mithrandir> seb128: I need to test i386 alternate, assuming that's good, we're just waiting for kubuntu.12:01
dokomake[1] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/konserve-0.10.3'12:01
doko*** YOU'RE USING autoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.61.12:01
doko*** KDE requires autoconf 2.53 or newer12:01
Riddelldoko: probably quite a lot of packages affected by that, it's a simple enough patch to fix12:02
dokoRiddell: yeah, maybe, just seen that while rebuilding packages in universe, maybe point that out the kubuntu community (if they care)12:04
Riddelldoko: this is the archive rebuild test?12:04
dokoRiddell: no, rebuild for the ldbl128 changes on sparc and powerpc12:05
Keybuk... if the KDE community didn't abuse the autotools ...12:05
dokopitti, I need a guinea pig for the OOo powerpc build, just in case you know one ... ;)12:06
dokofabbione: same for sparc12:06
RiddellKeybuk: how does KDE abuse autotools?12:07
KeybukRiddell: last time I looked, they had a hideous patched version of automake and libtool12:07
Keybukthat may have changed since12:07
Riddellit has, they got scrapped for CMake :)12:07
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highvoltageanyone happen to know why the default wallpaper is still called warty-final-ubuntu.png ? :)12:35
mvopitti: how can I test #8539412:35
seb128bug #8539412:37
UbugtuMalone bug 85394 in tzdata "New timezone data 2007b" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8539412:37
seb128mvo: probably use the timezone that need to be update, set a date after the time switch and look if you have the correct hour12:37
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cjwatsonhighvoltage: IIRC because changing the wallpaper name would require transitioning the default somehow ...12:38
cjwatson(but ICBW)12:38
highvoltageah. pity they didn't make it an alternative called default-wallpaper.png :)12:39
dokodholbach: you do have a powerpc machine as well, do you?12:40
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dholbachdoko: yes, an old one12:43
dokodholbach: so you compete with pitti ;)12:43
dholbachdoko: hm?12:43
dholbachdoko: I'm not sure I know what you're referring to :)12:44
dokodholbach: two elderly people with old computers ;-p12:44
dholbachpffffft :)12:44
HobbseeMithrandir: ping?12:46
MithrandirHobbsee: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.12:46
mvoseb128: thanks, I just couldn't figure out, what exact date the swich happens12:46
HobbseeMithrandir: are you here, with your archive admin hat on?12:46
seb128Hobbsee: friday is pitti's day, or that's a freeze question?12:47
Hobbseeseb128: i need 4 uploads accepted.  i'd forgotten that pitti could do it12:47
MithrandirHobbsee: just universe stuff?  I'll do it.12:47
HobbseeMithrandir: could you accept my uploads of konserve, kat, ksniffer and kalcul please?12:48
Hobbseethey all fix the FTBFS, after doko's rebuild12:48
=== Hobbsee curses automake
Hobbseeyup, they're all universe12:49
MithrandirHobbsee: yup, 'll do.12:49
HobbseeMithrandir: thanks very much :)12:49
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mantienahi all12:50
pittiHobbsee: back from lunch; still want me to do anything?12:50
Hobbseepitti: i think Mithrandir's handling it12:50
Hobbseeoh $%^&12:54
StevenKHobbsee: ?12:55
mantienaanybody knows, why there are no todays daily-live .iso at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ ?12:55
cjwatsonmantiena: logs are at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/; you should always check there before asking here12:56
mantienacjwatson: thanks12:56
cjwatsonbut there *are* images there12:56
cjwatsonreload, or look harder. :-)12:57
mantienacjwatson: there are only yesterdays images,.. btw, there are some laptops, which doesn't boot  with any ubuntu version (including herd4) until I specify boot  parameter "noapic"12:58
seb128mvo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time12:58
seb128mvo: "Starting in 2007, most of the United States and Canada observe DST from the second Sunday in March "12:58
HobbseeMithrandir: crap, i'm an idiot.12:58
mantienacjwatson: what data I should submit in bugreport ? only laptop model or some other data ?12:58
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=== Hobbsee didnt actually fix kat or ksniffer.
mvoseb128: woah, thanks12:58
=== Hobbsee puts on the dunce cap, and goes and hides in the corner.
mantienamaybe lspci -n ?12:58
MithrandirHobbsee: just upload again instead. :-)12:59
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pittimvo: oh, btw, if you wonder because of the current SRU: that rule for the U.S. is already present in the current -updates version (2006p)12:59
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HobbseeMithrandir: i dont know hwo to fix them - they die in the middle of make.12:59
pittimvo: the new changes are a bit less prominent, but would still be nice to have12:59
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pittimvo: in general, I think we should always keep our stables up to date with the latest tz data, so this will be a recurring task12:59
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dokoHobbsee: I don't know if they break otherwise ...01:01
seb128mvo: no thanks ;)01:01
mvopitti: right, I'm trying to test if the fix is working, but I'm struggeling right now. my understand is that if I move the date to Apr 2007 the time should change by 1h 01:01
Hobbseedoko: two of them fail not due to autohell01:01
=== Hobbsee got suspicious when the one that she test built didnt have autohell as a build-dep
pittimvo: please look at the attached diffs to find out the new rules and affected TZs. it does *not* affect U.S.01:02
pittimvo: btw, you know about zdump(1)?01:04
pittimvo: zdump -v -c 2005,2007 Europe/Berlin, for example01:04
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mvopitti: no, I don't know about this. what time zone is affected by the dst change in the diff? austrialia/eucla ?01:05
cjwatsonmantiena: oh, during releases the cron jobs get turned off so there are no images for today. This is perfectly normal.01:05
pittimvo: Bahamas, and Pacific/Easter, for example01:06
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mantienacjwatson: OK, I hope yestersays daily-live images will be almost identifical to herd5 ;)01:06
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mvopitti: ok, thanks. I will test with that01:07
Mithrandirmantiena: images will never be "almost identical" to published images, they'll be the same images, or rebuilds.01:08
MithrandirHobbsee: ksniffer seems to build fine on i386 at least01:09
HobbseeMithrandir: yes...01:09
HobbseeMithrandir: it did before, that's no help :P01:09
MithrandirHobbsee: why it blows up on ppc, I'm not sure..01:09
=== Hobbsee beats the hell out of the launchpad beta
Hobbseestop rolling up those little boxes that i'm trying to click on!  gah!01:10
simiraah... test herd5, yes...01:10
pittiHobbsee: folded portlets suck++01:10
FujitsuMithrandir, can you please give back drscheme on amd64 again? i386 worked the second time, so third time lucky!01:10
Hobbseepitti: yup01:10
mantienaMithrandir: I mean  not binary "identifical", but identifical behaviour, I just need to test Ubuntu bugs on some laptops01:12
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cjwatsonmantiena: releases are always binary-identical to a daily build.01:13
mantienacjwatson: Thanks for info, could you tell me what data I should submit in bugreport about not starting Ubuntu  until I specify noapic ? only laptop model or some other data ?01:14
cjwatsonmantiena: no.01:14
cjwatsonmantiena: as in, you're asking me because I happened to be talking, not because I actually know anything about it, and that's not good behaviour01:14
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mantienacjwatson: sorry, I though, that you are responsible for kernel bugs01:15
cjwatsonI'm not sure where you got that idea, but I'm not01:15
cjwatsonand have never been01:16
pittiMithrandir: is it ok or too confusing for you if we upload sources which are not h5 critical, but which we want to get out of our eyes?01:16
schwukWhen's herd 5 due out now?01:16
Hobbseeschwuk: two hours after the last person asked, as you would have seen in #ubuntu+1's topic.01:17
pittiMithrandir: (I probably asked already, but the stanza 'all uploads must be approved' keeps making me doubt)01:17
Hobbseeah, you're not there.01:17
mantienacjwatson: few weeks ago you told me, that I should report a bug agains kernel, when I  asked,  thats why I though, that you are responsible for kernel ;)01:17
Mithrandirpitti: no, that's fine.01:18
schwukHobbsee: I am now :) thanks for the pointer01:18
Mithrandirpitti: in general, I prefer people to stay off, but we're probably ok now anyway, so it's just a matter of getting stuff tested before we release.01:19
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MithrandirHobbsee: http://err.no/src/lp_expandportlets.user.js01:29
tepsipakkihow do I disable network-manager safely? It thinks I don't have network at all01:29
FujitsuMithrandir, some GreaseMonkey script?01:29
MithrandirFujitsu: yes.01:29
Mithrandirhmm, that didn't work correctly here.  I wonder why01:30
RiddellMithrandir: kubuntu amd64 desktop CD doesn't load :(  "invalid or corrupt kernel image"01:30
HobbseeMithrandir: nice, thanks.01:32
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MithrandirI wonder why it doesn't work for me any more.01:32
MithrandirRiddell: ugh, sure the burn is good?01:33
FujitsuMithrandir, doesn't work here either... Though I am using Epiphany, which is unlikely to help.01:33
RiddellMithrandir: done it on two CDs01:33
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MithrandirFujitsu: try grabbing it again01:34
FujitsuMithrandir: That works a whole lot better :)01:35
FujitsuVery nice.01:35
MithrandirHobbsee: ^^ you might want to grab it again01:35
HobbseeMithrandir: the kubuntu cd?01:35
MithrandirHobbsee: no, the user.js. :-)01:35
Mithrandirif you want to have expanded portlets by default.01:36
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Hobbseethankyou :)01:37
mantienaAnyone could tell me what data I should supply in bugreport, when  onlyUbuntu text mode in HP dv6103 laptop fine until X triest to start and Ubuntu gets frozen iduring X startup (even CapsLock doesn't work). But when I use "noapic" boot parameter then such problem dissapears.01:37
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mjg59mantiena: Kernel, attach lspci, uname -a, dmesg and /proc/interrupts 01:38
mjg59mantiena: Do dmesg and /proc/interrupts for both the noapic and normal cases01:38
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MithrandirRiddell: but i386 is fine?01:39
RiddellMithrandir: yes01:39
Riddellnot sure what to do01:39
MithrandirRiddell: I'll download the amd64 image now and see if it works for me.   If it doesn't, we'll just release without it, sounds ok?01:40
Mithrandirfsvo ok.01:40
mantienamjg59: thank you very much01:40
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RiddellMithrandir: ok, thanks01:40
=== Hobbsee only has an i386 machine, btw
Hobbseeso i cant test, sorry :(01:40
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MithrandirHobbsee: you probably don't have 45Mbit either, so I'd be done testing before you anyway. ;-P01:41
j1mcMithrandir: haha  :)01:41
mjg59Hobbsee: For some values of01:41
Mithrandirj1mc: how's the xubuntu images?01:41
j1mci did an expert install last night, went just fine01:42
Hobbseemjg59: ahh01:42
HobbseeMithrandir: heh.  quite possibly.01:42
j1mcMithrandir: I'm getting an AMD64 machine, and hopefully we'll get more xubuntu testers soon.  we're starting to get more01:42
j1mcsorry i haven't had too many other architectures to report.01:43
Mithrandirj1mc: ok.  My question is "are you images all good and should be released?"01:43
j1mchow are other *ubuntu's looking?01:43
Mithrandirapart from a problem with kubuntu amd64 desktop, we look good.01:44
j1mcwhat's going on there?01:44
Riddellkernel doesn't load01:44
cjwatsonsome hosage if you have NTFS filesystems too, but it's workaroundablee01:45
j1mccjwatson: you mean if people try to autoresize ntfs partitions, or they get hose just during a regular install?01:45
cjwatsonif you have an NTFS filesystem present, the autoresize calculation in the autopartitioner (even if you don't select autoresize) will confuse the partitioner horribly to the point where you have to reboot01:46
cjwatsonworkaround is 'mv /usr/bin/ntfsresize /usr/bin/ntfsresize.real' before the autopartitioner starts01:46
tepsipakkifor the record, I just reinstalled (netboot) my work desktop with feisty and all is well :)01:46
tepsipakkiand found out how to disable NM01:47
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j1mcMithrandir: I'm headed out of town today, and will be gone for the weekend.  . . .  Just letting you know that I won't be around.01:49
Mithrandirj1mc: ok, thanks for your effort.01:50
j1mcthank you.  :)01:50
mjg59I just plugged in a zd1211, and it appeared in network manager. I clicked, and it connected.01:52
mjg59IT'S THE FUTURE01:52
Mithrandirmjg59: \o/01:53
_ionIn the future, zd1211 plugs in you.01:54
_ionHumans are quite good energy sources, you know.01:54
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j1mcgreets, pochu 01:56
pochuheya j1mc :)01:56
pochuj1mc: how are things going?01:56
j1mcwell, thanks.  no show-stoppers in xubuntu01:57
pochuj1mc: :)01:57
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Kagouwich package/where do i search for X resolution detection on feisty live ?02:01
tepsipakkiKagou: xresprobe I think02:03
pittidoko: do you want libjaxp1.3-java-gcj in main?02:03
Kagoutepsipakki: sure, but i'm searching wich/where is it called on live boot02:04
dokopitti: yes, that should be sucked in by a new xerces2/xalan2 package, IIRC02:04
Kagouis it casper/xorg...02:04
MithrandirKagou: casper.02:04
KagouMithrandir: ok, thanks02:05
pittidoko: alright, done02:05
Mithrandirit just calls dpkg-reconfigure xorg, though02:05
KagouMithrandir: ah ok so it use postinst script of xorg02:06
Kagouyes ! xdebconfigurator is called from casper but not installed on live02:07
Kagouand for me only xdebconfigurator report good sync ranges for monitor02:08
MithrandirKagou: then fix xresprobe; xdebconfigurator is in universe.02:08
Kagouindeed Mithrandir . I will do my best to fix xresprobe02:09
pochutepsipakki: do u know when you will sync the video drivers?02:09
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pochutepsipakki: it would be fine to have a new git checkout for the i810-modesetting, since it's just for testing, and the actual version is quite old02:10
pochuVersion: 1.6.5.git20061014.ac1-1ubuntu402:10
pittidoko: oh, you packaged wxwidgets 2.8?02:14
pittidoko: there are several strange things in the debs02:14
MithrandirRiddell: seems to boot for me.02:15
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RiddellMithrandir: curious.  I rsynced it and burned to a new media to make sure and still had the same problem02:16
pittidoko: e. g.libwxbase2.8-dbg does not have anything in /usr/lib/debug; instead it has lots of file conflicts to libwxbase2.8-0, but doesn't C/R/P it02:16
dokopitti: looking ... (the same in 2.6?)02:18
pittidoko: I don't know about 2.602:18
pittidoko: I accepted the debs for now to avoid archive confusion, but this looks fix-worthy02:18
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tepsipakkipochu: I've merged all the drivers (37)02:19
tepsipakkiand updated where there were new versions02:19
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geserpochu: there is a new version of i810-modesetting in Debian experimental02:20
tepsipakkipochu: debian is merging i810/i810-modesetting as 'intel' (same which fedora does)02:20
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tepsipakkiin fact I didn't touch -modesetting02:20
tepsipakkiwe'll see how soon they are uploaded02:21
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MithrandirRiddell: isn't there supposed to be an "install" icon on the desktop?02:22
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pittiMithrandir: it's the 'enter your credit card number to transfer 100 pounds to Riddel to install' input line02:23
RiddellMithrandir: certainly02:23
RiddellMithrandir: is ubiquity-frontend-kde installed?02:24
toodlestepsipakki: Does that mean that i810/i810-modesetting will be available through a new package xserver-xorg-video-intel?02:24
StevenKMithrandir: Fixed kat uploaded. Accept at your leisure.02:24
MithrandirRiddell: there's one in the system menu, so yes.02:25
tepsipakkitoodles: probably there will be new versions of those before they are merged02:25
MithrandirRiddell: and it started ubiquity.02:25
toodlestepsipakki: Nice!02:25
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pittican .swf files be considered 'prefered format of modification'?02:31
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Mithrandirpitti: afaik, yes.02:32
pittiMithrandir: thanks02:32
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Mithrandirpitti: sorry; it's not02:35
Mithrandirpitti: there should be a .fla file there02:36
pittiMithrandir: it was from vnc2swf, prerecorded desktop session snippets02:36
Mithrandirpitti: hmm, then I'm not sure.02:37
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pittiMithrandir: the tool doesn't create .fla files02:38
Mithrandirpitti: ok, it creates .swf directly?02:38
pittiMithrandir: yes, it records VNC sessions and creates swf from them02:38
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pittiMithrandir: and there are three demos in doc/02:39
pittiMithrandir: which would mean that there is no editor for those examples02:39
pittiexcept 'record your own session'02:39
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Mithrandirpitti: indeed02:41
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Liberaxwhy actually feisty ubiquity doesn't recognize dmraid disks in /dev/mapper (also after installing dmraid) in the disk installation chocihe02:41
pittiMithrandir: the question arises what the prefered modification format would actually be in that case; really tricky02:42
Mithrandirpitti: get the files licenced under a BSD licence and not the GPL?02:42
pittiMithrandir: maybe I should move it to multiverse for the time being to cover our backs02:42
Mithrandirpitti: that doesn't help.02:43
pittioh, right02:43
Mithrandirpitti: if it's GPL-ed and we don't have the preferred for of modification, it's undistributable, not non-free02:43
pittiright, I noticed two seconds later, sorry02:43
cjwatsonLiberax: because it's not implemented yet02:44
Liberaxcjwatson: but if i install dmraid before starting ubiquity  ubiquity could see it if i choiche manual partitioning02:44
elmoMithrandir/pitti: who says .swf isn't the preferred form of modificaiton?02:44
elmoAFAIK it is02:44
elmotho IANAWD02:44
cjwatsonLiberax: what's your question?02:45
cjwatsonLiberax: dmraid isn't implemented in ubiquity. Sorry etc.02:45
Liberaxcjwatson: it is implemented if i coiche manual partitioning02:45
Mithrandirelmo: a friend of mine who has dabbled with flash says the format the adobe tools use is .fla (whatever that is) and .swf is an export of that.02:46
cjwatsonpartially-implemented, then. It's certainly not implemented properly.02:46
elmoMithrandir/pitti: oh, sorry, never mind apparently I was being lied to.  it quite possibly/probably isn't02:46
Mithrandirelmo: I'm not a flash person either, which is why I was wrong at first. :-)02:46
pittiok, then I reject the upload and get back to the uploader; thanks for your input02:47
Liberaxcjwatson: but on dapper after installing dmraid was possible02:47
cjwatsonLiberax: luck02:47
Liberaxcjwatson: thanks very useful 02:47
cjwatsonit hasn't been deliberately removed02:48
cjwatsonit's just that if it worked in the first place it was only accidental02:48
cjwatsonand the manual partitioner got completely rewritten in feisty for many other reasons ...02:49
cjwatsonLiberax: so your point is that they don't appear in the automatic partitioning list?02:50
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Liberaxcjwatson: appear in the partitioning list only when i choiche manual partitioning02:50
Liberaxcjwatson: on the main list i see only the two separated disks02:51
cjwatsonLiberax: yeah, it's because /dev/mapper/* is excluded to avoid picking up LVM LVs02:51
cjwatsonand partman really doesn't know about dmraid at all02:51
Mithrandirfabbione: have you had the chance to test -server CDs?02:51
cjwatsonfor instance, even if I removed that exclusion, it wouldn't know how to exclude the component disks, which it would need to do02:51
cjwatson(LVM: bug 32845)02:52
UbugtuMalone bug 32845 in partman-auto "Should stop partman-auto from showing LVM volumes" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3284502:52
Liberaxcjwatson: ok so the issue is because we cannot recognize if a device in dev/mapper is lvm or a fakeraid (dmraid)?02:53
cjwatsonLiberax: right, and we don't know how to tell that "real" disks are just dmraid components02:53
Liberaxcjwatson: the second one is a minor issue02:54
cjwatsonyou might say so but if we implemented the first but not the second it would create major confusion.02:54
Liberaxcjwatson: yes but i explain02:54
cjwatsonyour minor issue == my critical bug reports because somebody got seriously confused02:54
MithrandirRiddell: ok, amd64 installed fine here.02:54
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RiddellMithrandir: great, thanks02:56
Liberaxcjwatson: actually an user to use dmraid must install manually dmraid package before starting ubiquity  so i think that it recognize what disk are in raid 02:57
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Liberaxcjwatson: do u think that parsing dmraid -r or dmraid -l could be too complex or instable?02:57
cjwatsonLiberax: I don't really know enough about it to say; I have no dmraid systems here. In general I much prefer to avoid parsing text output that's designed for humans to read.02:58
cjwatson(we still do that in a few places with parted, and it's been the source of a number of bugs)02:59
carloscjwatson: JFYI, I just did an upload for Feisty's debian-installer based on the .pot and .po files you have in people.ubuntu.com02:59
cjwatsoncarlos: thanks02:59
carlosit will take a while as all Feisty is being imported02:59
carlosbut if you want I can tell you once I get the confirmation02:59
cjwatsonit's ok, I don't need to know03:00
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fabbioneMithrandir: no. being sick all day and i am not going to spend more than 4 minutes around03:07
Mithrandirfabbione: do you want it released?03:08
fabbioneMithrandir: yes please. at least montreal can test them..03:08
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Liberaxcjwatson: seems that dmraid discovering metatada on the disk to recognize raid. dmraid can display the metadata in native format on in other format so we can know the disk of the raid03:12
cjwatsonare there dmraid invocations to (a) display all active dmraid-managed RAID devices (b) display all disks that are components of dmraid devices?03:13
cjwatsonpreferably in a machine-readable form03:13
Keybukwell, that's a new one on me03:15
Keybuk[^0-9]  is not posix03:15
TreenaksKeybuk: how do you do it in posix then?03:16
cjwatson! instead of ^, I mean03:16
Mithrandir! in a charclass?03:17
KeybukI like the fact it defines it by saying [...]  is exactly like <this reference>, except '^' is gratuitously replaced with '!'03:17
Keybuk[!0-9] 03:17
Treenaksok.. good to know.03:17
Liberaxcjwatson: dmraid -r03:19
Liberaxcjwatson: the first is /dev/<therealdevice>, <rawmetdataformat>, <devmapperraiddevicename>, <raidtype>, <status>, <numberofsectos> sectors, data@ 003:22
Liberaxcjwatson: so we have two entry o this type for a dmraid of two disk03:23
cjwatsonhmm, somebody was working on doing this in d-i03:23
cjwatsonwonder if they got anywhere03:24
Liberaxcjwatson: probably because d-i works fine03:24
cjwatsonit does? we don't have dmraid in main ...03:24
cjwatsonoh, you mean Debian d-i?03:24
Liberaxcjwatson debian03:24
cjwatsonhmm, ok, I may be able to track down a patch then03:24
Mithrandircjwatson: remind me, what's the rune for publishing ports?03:26
Liberaxcjwatson: has ubuntu dmraid udeb?03:27
cjwatsonMithrandir: just ports/daily instead of daily, IIRC03:28
cjwatsonLiberax: in universe, yes03:28
Mithrandircjwatson: yeah, looks like it, thanks.03:28
cjwatsonLiberax: it could be promoted to main if we were actually using it03:28
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cjwatsonno matches for dmraid in Debian's partman03:29
Mithrandircjwatson: is it intentional that we have sparc alternates in ports?  I'd think we either shouldn't have them or they should be in daily?03:30
cjwatsonwell, sparc is technically only supported on server, not desktop03:31
cjwatsonalternate results in a desktop03:31
cbx33pitti: does that rejection should apply to pyvnc2swf too?03:31
Mithrandircjwatson: oh well, it just looks weird.  I'll publish it as a port.03:31
pitticbx33: there's no such package in NEW03:31
cbx33ahh ok03:31
pitticbx33: ah, are you Lionel?03:31
cbx33I'm pete03:31
cbx33I was the one who tried to submit a new pacakge that included one of those files03:32
cbx33and hence had to rewrite it to make it GPL compatible03:32
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lionelpitty: I am Lionel :) Thanks for the mail btw03:33
pittioh, hi lionel 03:33
cjwatsonLiberax: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338719 appears to strongly imply that the work has not yet been done in Debian03:34
UbugtuDebian bug 338719 in disk-detect "Please add dmraid support to hw-detect" [Wishlist,Open]  03:34
cjwatsonLiberax: maybe it works if you do some manual steps, or if you're lucky, or something03:34
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Liberaxcjwatson: the device in raid are not hidden also in debian.. and you still do manually install grub the minor issue listed in the message with the patch for a full automatically functional dmraid are trvial but valid03:38
Liberaxcjwatson: i try to ask to debian-boot for an updated status03:41
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cjwatsonLiberax: Debian has the same code to suppress /dev/mapper/* as we do03:45
cjwatsonLiberax: I can't parse your commentt about grub, sorry03:45
cjwatsoncould you try with more punctuation? :-)03:45
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Liberaxcjwatson: for grub i was talking about this http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20051108.120744.d1e3e835.en.html03:47
cjwatsonLiberax: yeah, that's not a patch though, just a commen03:47
Liberaxcjwatson: yes i think that this four trivial issue i this message are still valid: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338719;msg=1503:49
UbugtuDebian bug 338719 in disk-detect "Please add dmraid support to hw-detect" [Wishlist,Open]  03:49
Liberaxthe message number 15 of the bug03:49
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cjwatsonLiberax: right, except I don't think it's a trivial issue :-)03:50
Liberaxcjwatson: i think that parsing dmraid -r is quite affidable03:51
cjwatsonneeds an installer expert with the hardware to actually do the work though03:52
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Liberaxcjwatson: i have the hardware and i could give you the precise output format the any installer developer coulde parse the output03:53
cjwatsonmy experience is that trying to do this without the hardware in front of the person writing the code is soul-crushingly difficult and slow03:53
cjwatsonyou're welcome to send patches03:53
Liberaxcjwatson before i learn d-i interneal we have this device support ready by two years :)03:54
MithrandirLiberax: d-i isn't very hard.03:54
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Liberaxwhere is the source code of partman auto?04:01
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cjwatsonLiberax: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerDevelopment04:07
cjwatsonbear in mind that the patch will not be in just one package04:07
Mithrandirproof-reading, etc: http://err.no/tmp/herd-5.txt04:07
MithrandirI was wondering if I should put something in there about this being the last before beta.04:08
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Mithrandir(and the mirror list is quite bogus, but I'll fill that in when I have the list of mirrors)04:08
Mithrandirhiya Mark04:08
Liberaxthe problem in closing the bug 32845 is that seems in that in dev/mapper there is only lvm instead there is also dmraid04:09
UbugtuMalone bug 32845 in partman-auto "Should stop partman-auto from showing LVM volumes" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3284504:09
cjwatsonLiberax: indeed so04:09
cjwatsonLiberax: I was aware of that, but it was better to fix something that we did support than to worry about further breaking something that we didn't suppor04:10
cjwatsonMithrandir: looks ok to me ...04:10
cjwatsonMithrandir: though maybe rephrase "This is an early set of images"04:11
Mithrandircjwatson: better now?04:12
cjwatsonMithrandir: yeah04:12
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pochuMithrandir: maybe you are interested on this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2235609#post223560904:16
pochudon't know wether that's fixed or not (or even wether that was happening to you)04:17
Mithrandirpochu: looks like a bad cd, especially considering it worked when he retried.04:17
pochuMithrandir: oh, the bug report04:17
pochuyeah, then I'll close the report :)04:17
jdongMithrandir: how can bad CD's cause an installed package to bork on configure?04:18
jdongubiquity isn't GPG-checked04:18
jdongwas thinking of the alternate04:19
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cbx33hey mako_ 04:19
pochujdong: nvm = mevermind?04:19
jdongpochu: yep04:19
cjwatsonjdong: that *is* alternate04:19
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jdongcjwatson: yikes :)04:19
jdongaren't GPG signatures supposed to catch corrupted debs?04:19
cjwatson"I'm installing Feisty Herd 5 candidate 20070228.1 Alternate i386."04:19
jdongRAM corruption?04:19
cjwatsonwho knows, could b a real bug ...04:20
jdonginteresting enough04:20
cjwatsonthe error is kind of uninformative though04:20
bddebianpitti: Thanks for libtifiles204:20
pochuthen do I close the report?04:21
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jdongpochu: I don't think we can so readily dismiss the bug as a fluke?04:21
pochujdong: hmm, have I already said I'm learning English?04:22
pochujdong: I can't undertand your question :P04:22
jdongpochu: We should not ignore the bug report like that.04:22
pochujdong: ok, now :)04:22
pochujdong: I didn't know readily :)04:23
jdongso I'd say just leave it :)04:23
jdonglaunchpad has so many open bugs another one couldn't hurt </flame> :D04:23
pochuyeah, probably you're right04:23
jdong(kidding, kidding)04:23
Simiracjwatson: shall I just close the select-keyboard-layout bug? It works in h5.04:23
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pochuwill we ever reduce the open bugs?04:24
jdongit's mako  III, attack of the clones!04:24
jdongthat was II04:24
jdongyou can tell I'm not a star trek nerd.04:25
pittibddebian: np04:25
Mithrandirjdong: it was also star wars and not star trek.04:25
jdongpfft :)04:25
jdongsame difference.04:25
Treenaksjdong: *sound of Trekkies having heart-attacks*04:26
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MithrandirSimira: the migration assistant?04:26
pittijdong: Kirk will kill you with his laser sword!!!11!!04:26
jdongTreenaks: if that gives trekkies heart attacks then I'd give anime fans spontaneous combustion.04:26
SimiraMithrandir: yes04:27
SimiraMithrandir: what do you want as a password on my laptop?04:27
MithrandirSimira: uh, I'll set it when I get home? :-)04:28
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jdongpfft vistakeys@home04:28
jdongamusing.... I don't think BOINC would be thrilled.04:28
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cjwatsonSimira: weird, I've no idea how that got fixed, but if it works now, go ahead04:32
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AndrewBWho's bot is ubotu.. or even who setup the bot. [I know it is a supybot] 05:09
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geserAndrewB: Seveas is his master05:18
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Seveas'sup AndrewB ?05:19
mvocjwatson: I updated bug #67130 (sru-verification), I would appreciate if you could give me a hint about how to reproduce the original problem05:19
UbugtuMalone bug 67130 in ubiquity "mount points preparation locked - "No root file system"" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6713005:19
AndrewBnm Seveas I will be back later.. changing house  =/ hehe05:19
cjwatsonmvo: easiest (if not fastest) way is to do a full install with autopartitioning, then reboot back into the installer and try to install on the same partitions with manual partitioning without changing the partition layoutt05:20
cjwatsonmvo: i.e. just set the mount points to what they were before05:20
cjwatsonmvo: hmm, but you said you did that, curious05:20
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mvocjwatson: thanks, I will try this now. I used a vmware snapshot that should be pretty pristine, perhaps there is a issue with it or something05:22
cjwatsonmvo: did you reformat them in gparted?05:22
mvocjwatson: no05:22
mvocjwatson: should I ?05:23
cjwatsonmvo: oh, hmm, try an existing reiserfs partition instead of ext305:24
cjwatsonI think with ext3 it may manage to detect what it is and bypass the problem05:24
cjwatsonthe code's icky05:24
mvothat is much better, reiserfs triggers it05:26
cjwatsonthat was quick05:26
mvoyeah :) so far the most time-consuming part of the sru-verification is triggering the original problem05:28
mvo(for the sru-verifications I have done so far at least)05:28
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mjg59cjwatson: Did you say you'd done an upload with the HFS+ resize patch?05:31
mjg59Or were you going to do that after Herd 5?05:32
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AndrewBSeveas: back. How goes?05:37
Seveasa bit ill05:38
cjwatsonmjg59: I did it, but it's queued until after Herd 505:41
mjg59cjwatson: Thanks05:42
AndrewBSeveas: hmm me too, cold :(05:42
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mvopitti: If you reject bugs with the verification-needed tag, could you please also remove the tag? 05:50
pittiI was just typing my answer...05:51
Seveasok, so there's a bug in vnc, sorry for spewing gibberish06:00
pittiSeveas: we know your r00t password now :)06:00
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dokopitti: which files do conflict in wxwidgets2.8?06:41
pittidoko: AFAIR the libraries in /usr/lib/06:42
dokopitti: no, all have a 'd' in its name06:42
pittidoko: oh, ok, then this was an oversight; sorry06:42
dokodon't ask me if that makes sense ...06:42
RiddellMithrandir: is herd 5 being released?06:42
pittiI had expected /usr/lib/debug/ stuff06:42
pittiiwj: is there a trick how to convince dpkg --unpack not to run any maintainer scripts?06:48
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Treenakspitti: ar x file.deb ; tar -x -v -z -C / -f data.tar.gz06:49
Treenakspitti: ? :P06:49
pittiTreenaks: no, that won't register the deb as unpacked, so I cannot purge it any more06:49
kylemanyone running feisty with an ati card feel like testing 7.2 driver deb?06:49
Treenaksgood point06:49
pittiTreenaks: for that, dpkg -x is easier :)06:49
pittikylem: my powerpc at most06:50
pittikylem: radeon 9200 (runs with free driver)06:50
pittibut I guess there are testers with more elaborate hw :)06:50
Treenakskylem: X700 (with bug 20283, but should work 'good enough')06:50
UbugtuMalone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2028306:50
Treenakskylem: x8606:50
kylemTreenaks, http://people.ubuntu.com/~kyle/xserver-xorg-video-ati_6.6.3-2ubuntu1_i386.deb06:51
Treenakskylem: downloading06:51
kylempitti, 6.6.3-2ubuntu1 in my ~kyle/public_html on rooker06:51
kylempitti, you'll have to build it yourself. :P06:51
pittikylem: right, but building a single driver shouldn't take that long (I hope)06:53
kylemit's quite speedy.06:53
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pittikylem: upgrading my ppc to latest feisty will take the better part of the time :)06:54
Treenaksstill has bug 20283, but bug 22985 is gone06:57
UbugtuMalone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2028306:57
UbugtuMalone bug 22985 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[x700]  fails to infer lvds for primary connector on acer ferrari 4005 | card detected, but driver fails to use right output port" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2298506:57
iwjpitti: None at all ?  No.06:57
kylemTreenaks, i'll beat up dave for you.06:57
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iwjpitti: Why do you want to do that ?06:57
pittiiwj: ok, so unpack control.tar.gz - mangle - repack deb - --unpack, right?06:57
Treenakskylem: I sent him my video bios.. he said he'd probably have to rewrite the ATOM parser for it to work.. 06:57
pittiiwj: for the apport-fakechroot stuff06:57
kylemTreenaks, ouch.06:58
iwjpitti: You can do that if you want, yes.  dpkg -x; dpkg -X; rm; repack.06:58
pittiiwj: I'd like to be able to purge packages after unpacking them06:58
Treenakskylem: and in another bug, I saw that 'rewriting the ATOM parser' is part of Randr 1.2 work06:58
iwjpitti: OIC06:58
kylemTreenaks, i'll find out what the status is for you.06:58
iwjAnd the maintainer scripts are bad ?06:58
pittiiwj: but for a gdb run I don't need any configuration, just the naked files06:58
Treenakskylem: cool, great06:58
pittiiwj: some preinst files fail with fakeroot unfortunately06:58
iwjDoesn't debootstrap know how to synthesize a dpkg database ?06:58
pittiiwj: I retraced some Gnomeish report with a really huge dependency chain, and about 7 packages didn't install (some that pre-depended on x11-common or so)06:59
pittiiwj: not sure what you mean with 'synthesize a dpkg database'?06:59
pittiiwj: debootstrap uses dpkg to unpack/configure all apckages except dpkg itself07:00
pitti(well, and a few other exceptions)07:00
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cjwatsondebootstrap does roughly: touch /var/lib/dpkg/status and create random directories and stuff; extract all core packages; re-unpack all core packages over the top; configure07:00
pittiah, the re-unpacking does the trick then07:00
cjwatsonwhere core => whatever you need to run dpkg07:00
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iwjpitti: If you want a --no-maint-scripts option it shouldn't be too hard.  I wonder if debootstrap would like it too.07:01
pittiiwj: I can go with the repacking option (since it needs to work on stable releases, too), but eventually such an option would be handy07:02
pittiiwj: repacking is easy, just takes some time07:02
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cjwatsoniwj: my concern with --no-maint-scripts is that people would use it and then report bugs due to the preinst not having run or something07:04
cjwatsonit'd have to be a separate "half-unpacked" state or something, except you wouldn't be able to convert it into unpacked07:04
pittiiwj: I guess I could even keep the data.tar.{gz,bz2} and just repack control.tar.gz to be faster07:05
cjwatsonthe only thing you would have to be allowed to do would be to purge it again07:05
pittihm, I think I'll do it with a less hackish way: dpkg-deb -x and keep track of the files myself07:06
pittioh, no, then dpkg -S doesn't work07:07
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dokopitti: please could you promote the fastjar source into main? it's splitted out from gcc, so I hope no new inclusion report is needed07:14
pittidoko: done07:16
iwjpitti: You could write a crappy script that did some of the right things.  Maybe use the Perl dpkg of yore ? :-)07:17
iwjcjwatson: Yes, you're probably right.  It could be undocumented I suppose.07:18
iwjOr   --no-maint-scripts-yes-i-promise-not-to-report-any-bugs07:18
iwj--no-maint-scripts would be a nice alternative to  rm /var/lib/dpkg/info/stupid-package.prerm07:19
Treenaks--no-maint-scripts --no-really --really-really07:20
Treenaksor --trust-me :)07:20
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iwjpitti: For the crappy script approach, the things I can think of you have to do are:  1. control fragment to /v/l/d/status, with Status: install ok installed.   2. info/<package>.list   3. info/<package>.{{pre,post}{inst,rm},md5sums}   3. conffiles (yuk)07:23
iwjI mean, 3. for each entry in conffiles make an entry in the status fragment.07:23
pittiiwj: right, or that; I thought of that, but using some ar magic to repack the .deb seems a bit more robust07:23
iwjAnd apparently I can't count.07:23
pittieven if it takes a little longer07:23
pittibut since I do not have to repack data.tar.gz, it's not that bad07:24
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pittiiwj: no idea how bad the overhead of 'ar r' actually is, but should be okay07:24
iwjThe ordering of members in a .deb is important, btw.07:25
pittiiwj: right, 'ar r' *seems* to preserve it07:25
iwjpitti: Odd, the FM disagrees.  But well and good.07:26
iwjOh I'm misreading it.07:26
iwjIt says `_new_ members are added at the end of the file' (emph mine).07:26
pittiworked here, but that might have been sheer coincidence07:26
iwjThus failing to specify what happens when replacing but the correct behaviour seems clear.07:27
iwjSuSv3 `Files that replace existing files in the archive shall not change the order of the archive'07:27
pittiiwj: I'll find out soon eough :)07:27
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pittikylem: new ati driver works fine for me07:35
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seb128any i810 user wanting to test the new driver package? http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/xserver-xorg-video-i810_1.7.4-0ubuntu1_i386.deb07:47
KaiLespecially people, who are already planning to replace their VGA chip ;)07:48
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geserseb128: this isn't the modesetting branch, is it?07:52
kylemgeser, it isn't.07:53
pochuseb128: I would like to :)07:53
pochuseb128:  Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller07:54
pochuseb128: I just need to restart X, right?07:56
seb128pochu: yep07:58
seb128pochu: install the package and restart xorg07:58
seb128geser: that's the tarball for xorg 7.2 07:58
pochuseb128: already installed07:58
pochugoing now :)07:58
seb128thank you07:58
pittinice weekend everyone!07:59
seb128pitti: you too, enjoy as well07:59
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pochuseb128: works fine :)08:01
seb128pochu: good, thanks for testing ;)08:01
pochuseb128: do u want me to look for something?08:02
pochumaybe LP bugs08:02
seb128pochu: you are welcome to look at bugs and ask people to try the new version when it'll have been uploaded08:02
pochuseb128: what about the -modesetting driver? will you also update it? :)08:03
seb128pochu: no, Debian has no new version and I'm not maintain xorg, just giving an hand to update to xorg 7.2 and that's not an official tarball08:05
mjg59pochu: I'll look into that if I have time08:05
pochumjg59: thanks :)08:06
pochuseb128: ok08:06
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geserseb128: is xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting 1.7.2.git20070210-1 to old for xorg 7.2?08:06
pochumjg59: I think that, as the -modesetting is heavy development, and even unstable, we can checkout a new git version, since the actual is too old08:06
pochuups, that's what I want!08:06
geserthat 1.7.2-* version is Debian experimental08:07
seb128geser: you don't ask to the right person, I'm using ATI on my desktop and don't know anything about that modesetting driver ;)08:07
seb128geser: we can probably sync that from Debian08:08
pochutepsipakki: do you know geser question?08:08
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gesercrimsun compiled the Debian experimental version for Ubuntu: http://revu.tauware.de/~crimsun/08:09
mjg59Which version we want will depend on what version of xorg we ship08:09
seb128mjg59: we ship 7.208:10
tepsipakkigeser: we could sync from experimental like seb128 suggested08:10
seb128looks like we could just sync the Debian package08:11
tepsipakkihmm, what was the problem with EXA&ati again?08:11
mjg59seb128: Sorry, I meant server version rather than release version08:12
tepsipakkimjg59: 1.208:12
seb128mjg59: we have 1.2, is 1.3 available yet?08:12
tepsipakkinot yet08:12
mjg591.3 is out this week, in theory08:12
seb128when will it be available?08:12
mjg59I believe that the code is frozen08:12
seb128we might want to consider it08:12
mjg59I'll check08:12
seb128not my call though08:12
tepsipakkiyes, we might want that08:12
mjg59If we get 1.3, then we also want randr 1.2, which needs a rebuild of the modesetting driver08:12
seb128that's 1.2 with new xrandr right?08:12
pochucrimsun: dpkg: considering removing xserver-xorg-video-i810 in favour of xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting ...08:13
pochudpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of xserver-xorg-video-i810 (--auto-deconfigure will help):08:13
pochu xserver-xorg-video-all depends on xserver-xorg-video-i81008:13
seb128mjg59: we already have randr1.2 (if you speak of the lib)08:13
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mjg59seb128: There's some awkward build-ordering issues - I can't remember whether it needs redoing with the new server08:13
geserpochu: that package is for quick testing and need proper merging08:13
pochucrimsun: that's related to bug 8041708:13
UbugtuMalone bug 80417 in xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting "i810 modesetting driver can't be installed concurrently with ubuntu-desktop" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8041708:13
pochugeser: ok :)08:14
pochuwell, going to restart x :)08:14
Amaranthand he was never heard from again08:15
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pochu-modesetting works fine, but I have the same issue I had with the old version, and with 915resolution08:17
Amaranthpochu: ?08:17
pochui didn't reported it08:18
pochuthe Y axe is stretched08:19
pochugeser: that's what the dictionary says ;)08:20
pochugeser: it's longer than it should be08:21
pochuso the icons are larger, and all that :)08:21
pochualso, the fonts are strange...08:21
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mjg59cjwatson: I've got a patch that adds basic GPT/MBR synchronisation. I'll throw it at you later.08:22
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pochuhttp://emilio.pozuelo.org/screenshot.png <--- do you see it fine?08:23
pochulook at the ubuntu icon, for example08:24
geserit looks normal to me08:25
mjg59pochu: No, that looks fine here. Which is unsurprising.08:25
tepsipakkipochu: so you have a wrong resolution which the panel stretches?08:25
mjg59If there's an issue with your display, then...08:26
mjg59That is, if you take a screenshot, it'll still look fine here08:26
pochuthen I'll take a photo :)08:26
phanaticpochu: rather take a photo ;)08:26
pochuphanatic: :)08:26
cjwatsonmjg59: great, thanks08:26
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mjg59cjwatson: I've mailed it to parted-devel, waiting for feedback from that08:27
cjwatsonmjg59: now the last urgent partitioning item for feisty is to make partman able to resize ext3 with resize_inode despite it being hideously hard to implement in libparted08:27
pochutepsipakki: no, the resolution is well configured, (1280x800), but it's displayed ugly08:28
pochuas if it would be displaying a 1280x600, so the Y res is aumented08:28
seb128Mithrandir: have you planned to unfreeze the archive today?08:30
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pochugeser, tepsipakki & co: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/modesetting.jpg08:34
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geserpochu: I still don't see any problem 08:41
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pochugeser: don't you see larger the ubuntu icon?08:42
pochugeser: and the fonts?08:42
geserlook also normal to me08:44
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lemsx1is it just me but Feisty seems to double the swap space... i have a 2GB partition set for swap and it looks in top like 4GB. i use swapoff -a and swapon -a and it shows as 2GB (like it should)08:51
lemsx1perhaps the swap partition is being mounted twice??08:51
dokopitti, seb128, Mithrandir: did you promote python-qt3-gl to main? if yes, then pyopengl needs to be promoted as well08:52
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jcolewho maintains the vmplayer ubuntu package?09:06
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pochugeser, tepsipakki: I hope you can find the difference with this: this is me, with the modesetting: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/photo2.jpg, and this is me without it: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/acerca-de-pochu/09:35
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Treenakspochu: lots of moire!09:44
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crimsunpochu: what happens after you ctrl+alt+F# then alt+F7 ?09:51
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Mithrandirseb128: yes09:54
G0SUBSeveas: ping09:56
SeveasG0SUB, ?09:56
pochucrimsun: let's see09:56
G0SUBSeveas: can you kindly send Ubugtu to #ubuntu-in ?09:56
G0SUBSeveas: we need its help some times09:57
pochucrimsun: same09:57
G0SUBSeveas: why?09:57
Seveasthe bots are in too many channels already09:57
Seveasyou can easily grab its code and host your own bot09:57
G0SUBSeveas: hmm. fine. where is it?09:57
Seveashehm ubotu not in here :)09:58
Seveasanyway, bots.ubuntulinux.nl09:58
G0SUBSeveas: thanks09:58
crimsunpochu: did you rebuild from experimental's source package?09:59
G0SUBSeveas: http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/code/ gives me 40309:59
SeveasG0SUB, odd10:00
pochucrimsun: no, I downloaded your package10:00
Seveastry launchpad, ubuntu-bots product10:00
G0SUBSeveas: ok10:00
crimsunpochu: please pbuild it; that version was compiled against older xserver-xorg-dev10:01
pochucrimsun: ok, could you give me the link again? :)10:01
crimsunpochu: adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/10:01
crimsunpochu: if in doubt, check the upstream git branch, too.10:01
pochucrimsun: it isn't there10:02
crimsunerr, sorry. tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun10:03
pochucrimsun: http://revu.tauware.de/~crimsun/10:03
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pochuerr, they're the same :)10:03
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Mithrandirmvo: is upgradetestingprocess complete and the archive can be unfrozen?10:15
mvoMithrandir: yes, http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/ looks good10:16
Mithrandirmvo: thanks.10:16
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Mithrandir] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with feisty; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Herd 5 released
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pochucrimsun: done, going to restart10:27
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pochucrimsun: same :(10:29
pochucrimsun: built with pbuilder up-to-date10:29
pochutepsipakki: ^^10:29
Mithrandirtepsipakki: just let your large amount of changes through.  Great work. :-)10:30
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pochusure, this is just the -modesetting driver, which isn't stable yet. The -i810 works fine (without the good resolution, but that also happened before the update)10:31
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tepsipakkiMithrandir: thank seb128 and kylem for reviewing ;)10:40
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tepsipakkipochu: I still don't see the picture as too wide, looks good to me :/10:42
Mithrandirtepsipakki: was this the rest of the bits needed?10:43
tepsipakkiMithrandir: yes, there are some minor updates to the utils though10:43
Mithrandirok, coolie10:44
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netstarwhat the heck happened to the PowerPC release? Why was it dropped?10:48
Seveasnetstar, that's all in the announcement...10:51
netstarwhich one?10:51
Seveasthe one that said that PowerPC would be downgraded from official to community-supported10:52
netstarwhere does one get it from?10:52
crimsunpochu: then it's likely an issue to be addressed (or is in progress in upstream's git branch)10:54
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netstarSPARC is more dead than POWER10:57
Mithrandirnetstar: powerpc is in ports, though.10:58
cjwatsonwe'd definitely welcome more development effort on powerpc ...11:01
cjwatsonfrom interested folks11:01
netstarI think I'd be more interested in keeping the debian powerpc port alive11:02
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cjwatsonwell, the Ubuntu powerpc port has the same status as the Debian one :-)11:02
cjwatsonneither is corporately supported11:03
cjwatsonthat's really the only difference11:03
cjwatsonwe're not going to stop building it at all, if nothing else 'cos I have a powerpc laptop ... ;-)11:03
jcolenetstar: i usually install via debian installer myself (mini.iso) -> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/11:04
cjwatsonthe powerpc CDs haven't gone away: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily-live/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/11:05
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Mithrandirand http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/herd-5/ for the just-released herd 511:07
Mithrandiroh well, I'm off to bed.  See you around later.11:08
jcolenetstar: you think you feel unsupported, i'm running ubuntu on hppa :P11:08
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toodlesJust wanted to mention that widescreens that have a native resolution of 1440x900 and intel g945 don't work at all with i810 - X fails to start at all. The current modesetting driver allows X to start, but screen is always blank. I've also tried the modesetting driver at http://revu.tauware.de/~crimsun/ which had the same effect. For this reason, would it not be better to promote 915resolution to main for feisty. As it is (for the compi11:29
toodlesnation I just mentioned), the live cd (edgy or herd5) does not work at all (X fails), and the alternate install requires 915resolution to be installed from commandline before X starts.11:29
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toodlesThe bugs at http://bugs.debian.org/915resolution don't seem relevant issues to not promote it. What are the developer opinions on this? Is there anything that speaks against this? If the i810-modesetting driver is considered so unstable, then it seems like a good idea to use 915resolution to me.11:35
toodlesIf nobody as any objections, I'd fill out an MIR. :-)11:36
pochutoodles: have you filed a bug in freedesktop?11:36
toodlesNo, just on launchpad. 1 sec11:37
toodleshttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/62002 is a bug about edgy, but it is the same problem. From what I can see, this as always been an issue.11:39
UbugtuMalone bug 62002 in xorg "Installer X server startup fails" [High,Confirmed]  11:39
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toodlespochu: I just checked, this bug has been reported on freedesktop. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=907611:41
UbugtuFreedesktop bug 9076 in Driver/i810 "i810 modesetting: 1440x900 panel setup fails" [Normal,New]  11:41
pochutoodles: you also have Bug #8218911:42
UbugtuMalone bug 82189 in xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting "Using xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting results in a blank screen" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8218911:42
toodlespochu: I completely forgot about that!! I reported that one myself :-P11:43
pochutoodles: :)11:43
pochutoodles: does the normal i810 (not the modesetting) driver works for you?11:44
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toodlespochu: No. X Fails completely, no matter what resolution or settings I try. It only works after 915resolution is installed.11:44
pochutoodles: even with x.org 7.2?11:45
toodlespochu: It effectivly makes ubuntu not work out of the box, not matter how it's installed.11:45
toodlespochu: Yes. I'm using herd 5 as we speak.11:45
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pochutepsipakki: oh, it isn't supposed to be too wide, but too height :)11:46
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pochutepsipakki: believe me, it *is* :)11:46
toodlespochu: The funny thing is, usplash nearly displays correctly. It's a bit squashed from top to bottom, but it displays. It makes it seem strange that X then fails.11:47
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pochutoodles: do you have an x.log?11:48
toodlespochu: Of it failing?11:48
pochutoodles: yes11:48
toodlespochu: Give me a few minutes to remove 915resolution and restart X. I'll get it for you. Back in a few :-)11:49
pochutoodles: ok :)11:49
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toodlespochu: I'm back :-) The x.log here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8285/11:55
pochutoodles: looking11:56
pochubut sure tepsipakki will know a lot better than me :)11:56
pochutoodles: (EE) I810(0): No Video BIOS modes for chosen depth.11:57
toodlespochu: I really appreciate you looking :-) I would do what I can to get this fixed, so if there's anything I can do or read up on that might help, please let me know!!11:57
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toodlespochu: Want me to try with 1024x768?11:58
pochutoodles: sure11:58
pochutoodles: what is your exact laptop?11:58
toodlesDell Insporon 640m11:58
toodlespochu: I have a friend who has the same laptop, but his native resolution is 1280x800 - his one works out of the box at 1024x768 and he can install from the live cd.11:59
toodlespochu: Hence I came to believe that this only affects people with wide screens and a resolution of 1440x900 or higher.12:00
pochutoodles: have you seen this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellInspiron640m12:00
sladentoodles: can you take a photo of it (with a digital camera) and file a bug report with it attached12:00
toodlespochu: No12:00
pochutoodles: if he has the same laptop, why he has 1280*800 and you have 1440*900?12:00
toodlespochu: Of course I can12:00
pochutoodles: take a look ;)12:00
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pochutoodles: you wanted to say sladen right?12:01
toodlespochu: I will. What? What is sladen?12:01
pochusladen: hello!12:01
toodlespochu: Dell offer two different screeens with this model laptop. One has a higher resolution.12:02
pochutoodles: oh, now I understand :)12:02
sladenpochu: hello12:02
pochutoodles: like acer and my laptop :)12:02
toodlespochu: Your acer also has 1440x900?12:02
pochutoodles: 1280*800 :)12:03
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toodlespochu: Ah, ok. I've seen the pictures you posted with the off resolution.12:03
pochutoodles: it works out of the box with i810, and works with modesetting, though I have a problem with this one12:03
pochutoodles: yeah, I have to file a bug upstream12:03
toodlespochu: Yes, I've seen many people have success with both i810 and the modesetting driver but their resolution was always less than 1440x900.12:04
toodlespochu: If you would still like me to try again with 1024x768, I will do it now.12:05
pochuthen I'm not in that group :(12:05
pochutoodles: yes, and let's see if then it works :)12:05
=== Chipzz waves at sladen :)
toodlessladen: Sorry, I missed your message earlier. I will make a quick video of the process, and take a picture for you to see.12:06
toodlespochu: sladen: Have to make a phone call first, so I might need an hour. :-P Hope that's ok with you.12:07
pochutoodles: then I probably won't be here, but there are a lot of people who can help you much better than me :)12:08
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toodlespochu: Ok. Thank you for all your help! Have a nice evening :-)12:10
pochutoodles: night here :)12:10
toodlespochu: :-)12:10
pochutoodles: same for you, and I hope you can fix your problem soon!12:10
toodlespochu: Thank you!12:11

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