[12:23] <ryanakca> can someone please test bug 89332?
[12:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89332 in bzr-gtk "Missing depends for bzr-gtk" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89332
[12:23] <ryanakca> (on a fresh install, or one where you haven't installed any other gtk apps)
[12:31] <yuriy> bah wordpress doesn't like konqueror
[12:31] <yuriy> and you need to pay to edit the css :o
[12:33] <seele> eh?
[12:33] <seele> ive never had any problems with wordpress
[12:34] <yuriy> i mean if you have them host the blog. the upload image fields don't seem to work in konqueror
[12:34] <yuriy> or at least one particular one doesn't
[12:35] <seele> thats kind of weird because i would think the administration interface is the same as what they release
[12:55] <ryanakca> yuriy: install it on an old box?
[01:15] <yuriy> ryanakca: maybe i will at some point. i usually get too frustrated getting the router to let me run a webserver though so i've quit on that
[01:16] <ryanakca> is there an option for DMZ on the router
[01:16] <ryanakca> s//?
[01:17] <yuriy> yeah. anyways i don't remember if that worked or not or what hte problem was. it's been a while since i tried with a router
[01:33] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: Good morning there.
[01:33] <Hobbsee> hey Tm_T!
[01:35] <Tm_T> I just spent 9 hours in student/rock bar/cafeterie basicly ircing.
[01:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:36] <Tm_T> Somewhat enlighting in time to time.
[01:36] <Tm_T> Hu-mans are stupid. :(
[01:37] <Hobbsee> a thought has occurred.
[01:37] <Tm_T> I keep wondering why people can't have fun without alcohol.
[01:37] <Hobbsee> because they're silly.
[01:38] <Tm_T> Oh well, I've been thought drunken after cup of coffee, so...
[01:39] <Tm_T> Staring magic crystalball ->
[01:40] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:41] <Tm_T> I think I stick in electric communication for now on even more.
[01:41] <Tm_T> http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20070302.jpg
[01:42] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:43] <Tm_T> Even that sounds better than drunken finns, trust me.
[02:02] <Hobbsee> darn, where's tonio_?
[02:47] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: I've been looking for him all day
[03:01] <DaSkreech> nixternal: But written in C# :-(
[03:02] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: ah
[03:05] <nixternal> ey
[03:05] <nixternal> manchicken|away: that email they sent you is against the law btw
[03:10] <DaSkreech> Yeah! burn doubleclick to the ground@@!!!
[03:10] <DaSkreech> wait it is doubleclick right?
[03:12] <nixternal> haha
[03:20] <DaSkreech> http://www.linuxgamingworld.com/2007/01/virgin#more-125
[03:20] <DaSkreech> Woah
[04:32] <Jucato> nixternal: but seriously, I don't follow that wiki, but I've experienced that before I even read that wiki, way back when I was still in the forums.
[04:32] <manchicken> nixternal: Really?
[04:40] <nixternal> manchicken: yes, they can't say derogatory remarks like that
[04:42] <manchicken> Jucato: http://blog.notsosoft.net/2007/general/worlds-dumbest-hr-recruiter-email.html
[04:43] <manchicken> nixternal: I'm debating on finding the CEO of Riverbed's email and sending him a link to my blog post ^_^
[04:44] <Hobbsee> may there be no more crazy people watching my house!
[04:44] <Jucato> bye Hobbsee! take care!
[04:44] <Hobbsee> bye1
[04:46] <Jucato> manchicken: oh wow! the nerve of that guy!
[04:47] <manchicken> Jucato: Tell me about it.
 manchicken: oh wow! the nerve of that guy! <-- okay :D
[04:47] <Jucato> tell you about it again? :)
[04:47] <manchicken> heh
[05:01] <manchicken> Digg it if you want: http://digg.com/tech_news/World_s_Dumbest_HR_Recruiter_Emailh :)
[05:37] <nixternal> Jucato: watch minataku in kubuntu. I will brb, his attitude is on my last nerve
[05:37] <Jucato> nixternal: yes. he has been banned before
[05:37] <Jucato> he really needs to go to anger management
[05:38] <nixternal> don't ban him if he does anything, give me 5 minutes and let me do it :)
[05:38] <nixternal> haha
[05:38] <nixternal> brb
[05:38] <Jucato> lol ok :)
[05:44] <Jucato> nixternal: I was trying hard to stop myself from telling Minataku who you really were... "Windows habit" lol!
[05:45] <nixternal> lol
[05:45] <nixternal> ppp auth is just how you handshake with a dial-up modem. back in the day you used to be able to connect to aol modems with noauth
[05:48] <nixternal> I guess he googled auth :)
[05:48] <Jucato> heh. at least he apologizes now :)
[05:48] <nixternal> right
[05:48] <nixternal> because he found the answer before I could link him
[05:48] <nixternal> lol
[05:49] <Jucato> last time when he was banned by LjL, he went into #ubuntu-ops in a fit... but calmed down later and attributed it to "anger issues"
[05:49] <Jucato> so I forever associate him with "anger issues" :D
[05:52] <nixternal> lol
[05:52] <nixternal> OH YA! I remember him now
[05:52] <Jucato> heh :)
[05:52] <nixternal> there used to be a guy from France, riri, who was on early last year. I helped him and his son setup their Kubuntu boxes with their Windows network, printers and such. I wish he would come back, I would be interested in chatting with him again
[05:53] <Jucato> :)
[06:10] <manchicken> nixternal: You really think that email is illegal?
[06:13] <nixternal> we learned about what he did in our business ethics course and what not to say to a potential employee when they turn down a job
[06:14] <nixternal> his email crosses the lines and is actually a viable business law case
[06:14] <nixternal> I can get the books to quote actual case laws as a matter of fact from the law library at school
[06:15] <nixternal> it is the entire "bad move", using the term "suicide" and referring to your choice, and the last statement is belitteling as well
[06:15] <nixternal> his entire email was pretty much his "professional suicide"
[06:16] <nixternal> ask him to verify those numbers, and provide sources as well
[06:16] <manchicken> nixternal: Interesting.
[06:16] <nixternal> his problem is this, and it was just on TV with the entire Rosey O'Pig and the Donald thing
[06:16] <nixternal> he didn't use "my opinion is"
[06:16] <manchicken> True.
[06:17] <nixternal> that would have changed everything in that email, but instead he said bad move by you, very deragatory and trying to knock you down
[11:26] <GNUro> 'morning!
[11:28] <fdoving> hi GNUro.
[11:28] <GNUro> hey fdoving!
[11:30] <mhb> morning
[11:36] <GNUro> hello mhb
[11:48] <mhb> hi Hobbsee
[11:49] <Hobbsee> hey mhb!
[12:54] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: are there any plans yet on how the kde 4 transition will be handled?
[12:56] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: as in, dist-upgrading, or what?
[12:57] <apokryphos> more a case of, will the kde 3 and 4 libs fit on one CD?
[12:57] <apokryphos> Ubugtu: fool!
[01:02] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: doubt it.
[01:02] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: i presume we'll jump from kde3 to kde4
[01:02] <Hobbsee> but whether all kde3 apps will run under kde4 is an interesting question
[01:06] <mhb> is the bouncing busy icon enabled by default in Feisty?
[01:06] <superstoned> Hobbsee: why wouldn't the KDE 3 and 4 libs both fit on the cd? they're not that huge... get rid of Openoffice and it's easy ;-)
[01:07] <Jucato> hehe :)
[01:07] <Hobbsee> superstoned: now that you mention it, we do plan to do that with koffice 2.0
[01:07] <Jucato> that would probably possible once the transition to KOffice from OO.o is complete
[01:07] <mhb> I hate it so much...not that it is a bad idea, but it often stops bouncing all of the sudden, then sometimes when you move the mouse it doesn't disappear from the original place etc.
[01:07] <Jucato> darn you beat me :P
[01:07] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: even if they run under kde 4 they'll still need kde3 libs
[01:07] <Hobbsee> which will coincide with kde4
[01:07] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: right.
[01:08] <apokryphos> ubuntu didn't either :P
[01:08] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: i was half hoping they wouldnt run, so we could just stop supporting all of them :P
[01:08] <Jucato> hehe :)
[01:08] <apokryphos> most other distros used to ship with both libs, but then they didn't used to have just one cd
[01:09] <apokryphos> some kde 3 apps will be for sure needed when kde 4.0 is released, I imagine
[01:09] <apokryphos> so it's either the case of holding out until you can have a pure kde 4 platform or squeezing the libs on. /me isn't sure about the space-restrictions though
[01:09] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuFeistyKde4Plan
[01:09] <superstoned> mhb: that's because the apps don't always repaint immediately if they're busy. a compositing manager will fix this (kde 4, or beryl or something)
[01:09] <apokryphos> mhb: awesome, thanks :)
[01:10] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: i would guess we'll discuss it in spain
[01:10] <superstoned> apokryphos, Hobbsee: the plan is to make it possible to mix KDE 3 and KDE 4 apps, and I think most apps will be ported anyway.
[01:11] <mhb> apokryphos: this feature has been deferred for Feisty, but it may happen for +1 I guess
[01:11] <apokryphos> superstoned: will the libs fit?
[01:11] <mhb> Hobbsee: you going?
[01:11] <superstoned> apokryphos: they're not that big...
[01:11] <Hobbsee> mhb: yep
[01:11] <apokryphos> yeah, I think feisty is too early for it anyway
[01:11] <Hobbsee> superstoned: so it seems.
[01:11] <mhb> Hobbsee: enjoy it then :o)
[01:11] <superstoned> the kdelibs are what, 20 mb?>
[01:11] <Hobbsee> it keeps crashing - not much new bling
[01:11] <apokryphos> superstoned: how about base?
[01:11] <superstoned> 30 mb
[01:12] <superstoned> approx
[01:12] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: can see some apps developing nicely though
[01:12] <superstoned> but you don't need it to run apps...
[01:12] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: indeed :)
[01:13] <mhb> superstoned: but until we use that, I guess it should be disabled
[01:13] <mhb> superstoned: (bouncing icon)
[01:13] <apokryphos> well nice, I'm happy they'll fit =)
[01:14] <superstoned> mhb: well, it provides very valuable feedback for the user that something is happening. the non-bouncing one has the same problem, so that won't make a difference either, and having just the taskbar show something isn't enough (according to some usability ppl)
[01:15] <superstoned> so it won't go away in feisty, and feisty +1 might have KDE 4 ;-)
[01:15] <Hobbsee> if kde4 is done by feisty+1
[01:15] <Hobbsee> which should be named soonish, i would think...
[01:16] <mhb> superstoned: actually from the users I know I get only the negative feedback about it
[01:17] <mhb> superstoned: example: on the end of the KDE loading splash the cursor with the bouncing K logo appears and overpaints the splash
[01:17] <superstoned> well, if they don't like it, they can turn it off. I never had anyone complain, actually most seem to like it...
[01:17] <superstoned> mhb: true, true
[01:17] <apokryphos> most love it at first, and then eventually find it annoying. Depends on the user though
[01:17] <superstoned> but it's just a visual artefact, while the usability clearly is more important.
[01:18] <mhb> I agree with Jucato
[01:18] <mhb> superstoned: is a feature good in the matter of usability when it annoys people?
[01:19] <Jucato> and that's complicated by the fact that System Settings in Edgy somehow removed the Launch Feedback module :D
[01:19] <apokryphos> I remember it getting a special mention at some particular migration of hundreds of desktops to KDE :P
[01:19] <superstoned> just some are annoyed, and it helps newbies who often click twice on an icon because nothing happened.
[01:19] <hunger> apokryphos: That bouncing thing next to the cursor?
[01:19] <apokryphos> strangely enough, yes :)
[01:20] <superstoned> apokryphos: yes, they switched to KDE BECAUSE it had the bouncing icon...
[01:20] <apokryphos> of course it wasn't the driving force, but it was one fo the things the people handling the migration loved
[01:20] <apokryphos> superstoned: I didn't say that.
[01:20] <hunger> apokryphos: We had to turn that off when we deployed KDE desktops for a customer as well.
[01:20] <Jucato> I'm sure we/they could think of a less annoying feedback notification? :D
[01:20] <superstoned> well, they did, it was a pretty big deal for them
[01:20] <apokryphos> superstoned: who was it?
[01:20] <superstoned> don't remember... article must be somewhere, i had a bookmark i thought
[01:20] <superstoned> can't find it, though
[01:21] <apokryphos> can't find it either
[01:21] <superstoned> btw you can turn the bouncing off, and use just a static icon
[01:21] <superstoned> if it's that annoying
[01:21] <mhb> I know
[01:21] <superstoned> Jucato: just impossible on the current framework
[01:21] <Jucato> mhb: are you on edgy already
[01:21] <superstoned> we need compositing to do that
[01:21] <Jucato> superstoned: yeah, I know :)
[01:21] <Jucato> that's why I said "if" :D
[01:22] <superstoned> yes yes, KDE 4 won't solve all your problems, but many ;-)
[01:22] <mhb> Jucato: no,I'm on feisty as long as I remember :o)
[01:22] <Jucato> er sorry I meant feisty
[01:22] <mhb> superstoned: has there been a discussion about it recently?
[01:22] <Jucato> mhb: could you check if Launch Feedback was returned to System Settings? hopefully under the Notifications group?\
[01:23] <superstoned> mhb: about what?
[01:23] <mhb> Jucato: I can't find it
[01:23] <mhb> superstoned: about this :o)
[01:23] <Jucato> krap...
[01:23] <mhb> superstoned: the bouncing icon
[01:23] <superstoned> aaah the bouncing icon
[01:23] <superstoned> no, I haven't seen any. with compositing, the overpainting is solved anyway...
[01:24] <superstoned> so I guess the annoying part of it will be solved
[01:24] <superstoned> and we can keep it
[01:24] <superstoned> :D
[01:24] <mhb> superstoned: everything will be solved eventually
[01:24] <superstoned> :D
[01:25] <mhb> superstoned: "oh, and KDE won't load, but in feisty+1 it will be fixed :o)"
[01:25] <superstoned> ?
[01:26] <mhb> superstoned: just a joke explaining that sometimes we should fix bugs before the release, not assuring the users it will be fixed in the future
[01:27] <mhb> do you know about any?
[01:27] <Jucato> mhb: you know who to ask about those kind of things :D
[01:27] <superstoned> ask on kde-usability mailinglist...
[01:27] <Jucato> and you're pretty much close to her
[01:28] <Hobbsee> her?
[01:28] <superstoned> haha
[01:28] <mhb> I don't think my girlfriend knows about it
[01:28] <superstoned> see who's waking up...
[01:28] <Hobbsee> oh seele
[01:28] <mhb> .o)
[01:28] <Jucato> lol
[01:28] <Hobbsee> ahhh....
[01:28] <mhb> I can't even convince her to use Kubuntu more often
[01:28] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yes. seele :P
[01:28] <superstoned> mhb: stop supporting windows....
[01:28] <Hobbsee> :P
[01:28] <hunger> mhb: I'll ask my boss. IIRC that topic did pop up in our test user group, so she might have some hard data.
[01:28] <Jucato> mhb: although she does say in interviews that she uses Kubuntu :)
[01:28] <superstoned> mhb: it'll break down on here, some day or another, and she'll need linux to get her work done.
[01:29] <mhb> hunger: thanks
[01:30] <hunger> Oh, have to run, BBL.
[01:30] <mhb> superstoned: true
[01:31] <mhb> superstoned: I'm not sure if a bouncing icon is the best way how to do it anyway
[01:31] <mhb> IMHO it draws too much attention
[01:31] <Jucato> it's a notification.. but too distractive... might as well have used a popup :P
[01:32] <superstoned> come on, guys, it just shows up for what, 2 seconds, when you start applications? and it ONLY has visual artefacts if the app you are hovering over hangs...
[01:32] <superstoned> it's immediate feedback you've started something
[01:32] <superstoned> and I've never heard anyone say anything else than 'hey, that's cute' when they saw it...
[01:33] <mhb> superstoned: hmm, I may have an older laptop, but the K logo icon appears for like 5+ secs
[01:33] <serzholino> I miss this when launching non-KDE apps
[01:33] <superstoned> well, ok, it's not that funny on my old laptop as well. just disable it if it annoys you...
[01:33] <superstoned> serzholino: yes!!! you can turn it on, but it keeps on bouncing even when they are already started :(
[01:33] <superstoned> hey i'm leaving
[01:34] <superstoned> my gf won't like me if i don't take a shower now...
[01:34] <mhb> superstoned: see you
[01:34] <superstoned> cu
[01:57] <mhb> hmm
[01:58] <mhb> is this a bug or a feature? :o)
[01:58] <Jucato> features... depending on the distro...
[01:59] <Jucato> I guess
[01:59] <mhb> I don't have a problem with a GNOME app having tabs above and KDE below
[01:59] <mhb> but that's not the case
[01:59] <Jucato> only Konqueror has tabs above. most KDE apps, like Konsole, Konvi, Quanta, have bottom tabs by default (in KDE)
[02:00] <Jucato> not sure about Kopete, though
[02:00] <mhb> Konsole &Kopete have tabs below, Konqueror& systemsettings above
[02:00] <Jucato> well, the system settings is a new one...
[02:00] <Jucato> and on Kubuntu, we put Konvi tabs at the left
[02:00] <mhb> what's konvi?
[02:00] <Jucato> konversation
[02:01] <mhb> ah
[02:01] <Jucato> from what I've been told, aside from Konqueror, the default KDE placement for tabs is at the bottom
[02:02] <mhb> hmm
[02:02] <Jucato> hm... looks like KDevelop 3.4 has tabs at the top... not sure if that's default KDE or Kubuntu though
[02:02] <serzholino> i think its default KDE
[02:03] <mhb> I guess 99% of people using Kubuntu use a web browser
[02:03] <mhb> either Konqueror or something else
[02:03] <mhb> and all the browsers I know have tabs above
[02:03] <Jucato> yep. it wouldn't make sense to put Konqueror's tabs at the bottom now...
[02:03] <mhb> and GNOME apps do so, too
[02:04] <mhb> well then I can't see the reason why to put the tabs below
[02:04] <serzholino> tabs at the bottom is ok in apps with small window sizes
[02:04] <serzholino> like chat windows
[02:04] <Jucato> although if you have 10 tabs in Konversation...
[02:04] <mhb> serzholino: is there an explanation for that?
[02:04] <serzholino> no :) it's my opinion
[02:05] <mhb> serzholino: I mean there has to be a very sensible reason why are we differing from the rest of the world, right?
[02:05] <serzholino> yep, but i don't know it
[02:06] <mhb> Jucato: well
[02:06] <Jucato> oh... KDE has lots of side tabs too :)
[02:07] <mhb> Jucato: I haven't used Windows that much but I seem to remember that tabs in Configure panels were always above
[02:07] <Jucato> konqi, kate, kdevelop, quanta...
[02:07] <Jucato> yep. but those are configuration panels... not exactly the same as main windows
[02:08] <mhb> Jucato: yes. They didn't put tabs in the main windows much
[02:08] <Jucato> they didn't have tabs in main windows. period :)
[02:08] <mhb> Jucato: of those I only use kate and I can understand the reason why it's on the side there
[02:08] <Tm_T> Not at all, so you got your desktop all cluttered with 20+ windows etc.
[02:11] <mhb> Jucato: with kate you need to do some stuff it would be hard to achieve with tabs
[02:12] <mhb> Jucato: and you need to support a whole lot of open files
[02:12] <Jucato> mhb: gedit has tabs at the top :)
[02:12] <Jucato> it just so happens that Kate itself doesn't have a tabbed interface
[02:13] <Jucato> or the capability of having one
[02:13] <mhb> Jucato: really? I never used that
[02:13] <mhb> Jucato: well, I can imagine there are a few arguments for kate ... well it's not tabs at all
[02:14] <mhb> Jucato: I still think having all tabs on the top would improve usability
[02:14] <mhb> because people would know where the tabs are
[02:14] <mhb> and wouldn't have to check every time
[02:14] <Jucato> hm.... I haven't heard/seen of any complaints w/ tabs at the bottom though...
[02:15] <mhb> Jucato: it may be not as annoying
[02:15] <Jucato> and in most cases where tabs are at the bottom, they are "advanced" programs: kate, quanta, etc.
[02:15] <Jucato> I dare say, it's actually negligible
[02:15] <mhb> kopete is no. 2 for people using Kubuntu, I believe :o)
[02:16] <Tm_T> mhb: Kopete IMHO must have tabs at bottom.
[02:16] <mhb> well maybe no. 3 after kontact
[02:17] <Tm_T> "tabs where focus is" is my basic rule. :)
[02:18] <mhb> Tm_T: that sounds logical
[02:18] <Jucato> mhb: also, imho, tabs at the top for those apps would actually be a bit more distractive
[02:19] <Jucato> unlike in web browsing, where tabs immediately and clearly indicate something that needs immediate attention, the other tabs don't
[02:20] <mhb> what really puzzles me is that a KDE app can have tabs on the bottom and GNOME one on the top
[02:20] <mhb> even if they do the same thing
[02:20] <mhb> and both projects have usability experts
[02:20] <Jucato> simple. GNOME is silly. hehehe
[02:20] <Jucato> j/k
[02:20] <mhb> and my common sense tells me one solutions has to be better than the other one
[02:21] <Jucato> why does one of them absolutely have to be better?
[02:21] <mhb> just my crazy logic .o)
[02:22] <Jucato> :)
[02:23] <mhb> reminds me of the discussion about what current should be set as the "default" one for energy transportation
 unlike in web browsing, where tabs immediately and clearly indicate something that needs immediate attention, the other tabs don't <--- I had it the other way around it seems... crazy me
[02:23] <mhb> history tells us there are examples where one solution was better than the other :o)
[02:24] <Jucato> FOSS history tells us that two solutions could both be write and co-exist :)
[02:24] <Jucato> er...
[02:24] <Jucato> s/write/right/
[02:25] <mhb> and then FOSS gets criticised a lot for that :o)
[02:26] <Jucato> good people get criticized a lot too :)
[02:26] <Jucato> doesn't mean they're wrong :D
[02:30] <Tm_T> Problem in Gnome-world, you can't control where tabs are.
[02:30] <Tm_T> Atleast I didn't find easy way to configure that.
[02:30] <RadiantFire> i think tabs on any side are the best
[02:30] <RadiantFire> because people work differently
[02:30] <RadiantFire> thats a cool thing about gaim is  you can move the tabs around
[02:30] <RadiantFire> except tabs on the side look stupid, but thats a different problem all together
[02:31] <Tm_T> In Kopete too, and Konsole and... atleast you have choice.
[02:31] <RadiantFire> you can do it in Kopete
[02:31] <RadiantFire> wow, I"m an idiot
[02:31] <RadiantFire> then again, I never really looked around
[02:31] <Tm_T> RadiantFire: Hey, it's KDE app afterall. =)
[02:31] <Jucato> :)
[02:32] <mhb> RadiantFire: where can you do that in Kopete?
[02:32] <RadiantFire> I'm still looking
[02:32] <RadiantFire> I think its under tabs->tab placement
[02:32] <RadiantFire> in a conversation window
[02:32] <RadiantFire> that seems like a bad place ot put it
[02:33] <RadiantFire> sicne thats the only place I can find it
[02:33] <Tm_T> Hmm, or rightclick over tab?
[02:33] <Jucato> right-click at the tab
[02:34] <chavo> there's a tababr replacement for kate that lets you put tabs on bottom
[02:34] <Jucato> Tab placement
[02:34] <Jucato> chavo: yes, but it's an ugly thing/hack
[02:34] <mhb> cool
[02:34] <chavo> if it's a hack then so is the tabbar included
[02:35] <RadiantFire> yeah
[02:35] <RadiantFire> plugin for tabs is foolish
[02:35] <RadiantFire> I happen to like the list anyway
[02:35] <Jucato> chavo: tabbar included?
[02:36] <RadiantFire> because I usually have 10 or so files open
[02:36] <chavo> the plugin thats in kdeaddons
[02:36] <RadiantFire> the kate snippet plugin is also useless to me, cuz I can't figure out the syntax
[02:36] <RadiantFire> curse you kate!
[02:36] <Jucato> chavo: ah
[02:36] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:37] <RadiantFire> well, there might be others, must cover my bases
[02:39] <RadiantFire> thats sad
[02:39] <RadiantFire> how big is it?
[02:40] <Hobbsee> 124 unread, at the moment
[02:40] <Hobbsee> + sponsors mail
[02:40] <RadiantFire> oh wow
[02:40] <Hobbsee> + sponsors stuff, which i really have to deal with.  ie, porting the mailing list
[02:41] <Hobbsee> if it's too big, and looks uninteresting
[02:42] <RadiantFire> lol
[02:42] <RadiantFire> thats what the trashcan is useful for
[02:43] <RadiantFire> when you get a message that says "OmGz, why haven't you responded"
[02:46] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:47] <hunger> Could you change the trashcan's icon to not show a full trashcan when some files are in it?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> hunger: then when does it become full?
[02:47] <hunger> I keep "bringing out the trash" to have my desktop tidy... which defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
[02:47] <hunger> Hobbsee: NEVER!
[02:48] <Jucato> trash can icon on the desktop or on kicker?
[02:48] <Hobbsee> hunger: heh, then you take it off the desktop :P
[02:48] <hunger> Hobbsee: All the users I know "move file to trash" and emediently empty the trash can so their desktop won't look untidy.
[02:48] <Hobbsee> hunger: exactly :P
[02:49] <Jucato> hunger: if it's on the desktop, simply editing the .desktop file for it will do
[02:49] <hunger> I do not have a shortcut on the desktop. The trashcan is in the taskbar here.
[02:50] <Jucato> ah
[02:50] <Hobbsee> ditto the taskbar
[02:50] <Hobbsee> hunger: you can remove any element off kicker, including the trash
[02:50] <hunger> And there is no easy way to customize it... and IMHO it would be nice if kubuntu did not show a full trash by default.
[02:51] <Jucato> it's a KDE default afaik
[02:51] <hunger> Hobbsee: I can remove the element, but I want to have easy access to the trash in case I acidentally delete something.
[02:51] <Hobbsee> hunger: which is shown in ~ for konqi
[02:51] <Hobbsee> also found by Trash:/
[02:51] <hunger> Jucato: So what... when has that ever stopped you guys from changing it?
[02:51] <Jucato> :D
[02:51] <Hobbsee> hunger: bitter much?
[02:52] <hunger> Hobbsee: I can't tell my father in law to remember "Trash:/":-)
[02:52] <Jucato> touch
[02:52] <Hobbsee> hunger: anyway, sabdfl says we have to have the trash in the desktop
[02:52] <RadiantFire> ?
[02:52] <Hobbsee> hunger: true.  hence he'd see it in ~ when one first opens konqi
[02:52] <hunger> Hobbsee: I do not see Trash there...
[02:53] <Hobbsee> oh sorry, nto ~
[02:53] <hunger> Hobbsee: And having Trash in ~ seems pretty awful... even more tempting to delete it there:-)
[02:53] <Hobbsee> the default thing that comes up when you open konqi
[02:54] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: Go, shush!
[02:54] <hunger> I should probably just copy the empty trash icon over the full trash icon and be done with it... but then I need to fix up stuff after each update.
[02:54] <Tm_T> Goodnight o/
[02:54] <Jucato> night Hobbsee! :)
[02:55] <Hobbsee> Jucato: how'd the question thingo go?
[02:55] <hunger> Hobbsee: Goodnight!
[02:55] <Jucato> Hobbsee: um.. it went fine... nothing really big or radical
[02:55] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ahhh okay
[02:55] <Jucato> first thing held in #ubuntu-meeting to finish undertime :)
[02:55] <Hobbsee> haha
[02:56] <Jucato> 45 minutes, vs. 1 hour allotted to it
[02:56] <Jucato> hunger: I'm looking at /usr/share/apps/kicker/applets/trashapplet.desktop ... but I forgot which line actually affects it...
[02:59] <freeflying> prepare do a herd5 test, but no iso for powerpc now
[03:01] <hunger> Do the kicker plugins really need to come as .la and .so files?
[03:02] <Jucato> almost all plugins do, afaik
[03:02] <Jucato> KDE plugins
[03:02] <hunger> Aren't the .so files sufficient?
[03:05] <hunger> Seems to work fine for everybody else though:-(
[03:29] <Riddell> hunger: plugins need the .la I believe
[03:31] <hunger>  Riddell: AFAIK la files used by libtool... and libtool is used during development/linking only.
[03:31] <serzholino> yep
[03:31] <fdoving> konq-plugins include both .so and .la
[03:31] <hunger> Riddell: dlopen definitly does not look at them and the plugins should be dlopened, so you should not need to ship them.
[03:32] <hunger> fdoving: kicker applet as well.
[03:42] <fdoving> hunger: they are needed.
[03:45] <fdoving> as per http://api.kde.org/3.5-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdecore/html/classKLibLoader.html
[03:45] <fdoving> klibloader uses the info in the .la files to read depenencies etc. for each dynamically loaded lib.
[03:46] <hunger> Riddel: Forget what I said:-)
[06:02] <odla> are there visual differences between kde 4 and kde 3.5 for the end-user right now?
[06:04] <fdoving> yes, kde4 is barely usable.
[06:04] <manchicken> heh
[06:04] <manchicken> So you're saying that kde4 has a feature that makes X crash?
[06:04] <manchicken> heh
[06:04] <fdoving> no, it's just not finished yet.
[06:05] <manchicken> Is there a feisty preview yet?
[06:05] <fdoving> i've somehow managed to break my NX setup, so i can't tell if anything has changed dramatically the last week or so..
[06:05] <fdoving> not that i'm aware of.
[06:05] <fdoving> I compile it from svn.
[06:09] <odla> feisty's coming along nicely though
[06:11] <manchicken> yup
[08:08] <DaSkreech> mhb: ping
[08:11] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Ping
[08:11] <nixternal> pongalfdk8430
[08:13] <DaSkreech> omgd00drotflmaamfousoroolzponiez!!!
[08:13] <DaSkreech> nixternal: What was that entire debate about the notification about?
[08:14] <nixternal> what notification?
[08:15] <mhb> DaSkreech: just me being angry at notification redraws
[08:15] <DaSkreech> nixternal: wasn't that solved already?
[08:15] <DaSkreech> mhb: wasn't that replaced wih a frowing icon ni herd5?
[08:15] <nixternal> am I missing something?
[08:16] <DaSkreech> Bah
[08:16] <DaSkreech>  Growing icon in herd 5
[08:16] <mhb> DaSkreech: nixternal might not know much as he wasn't there
[08:16] <DaSkreech> Well isn't he the keeper of the page?
[08:16] <mhb> DaSkreech: ya
[08:16] <mhb> that he does, and we are grateful!
[08:16] <mhb> :o)
[08:17] <mhb> DaSkreech: I have both the growing logo and bouncing icon
[08:17] <DaSkreech> mhb: So back to your annoyances. wasnt that solved?
[08:17] <mhb> DaSkreech: so I dunno
[08:17] <nixternal> oh, the growing icon thing
[08:17] <nixternal> I wasn't around for the debate it seems
[08:18] <DaSkreech> mhb: so you were arguing to turn of the mouse notification?
[08:18] <mhb> DaSkreech: are you sure the growing icon replaces the bouncing cursor icon?
[08:18] <mhb> DaSkreech: well, it redraws itself badly, which I dislike
[08:18] <DaSkreech> I thought it was
[08:21] <marseillai> Riddell: i've on my hard drive an "old" dapper wich had some configuration problems. If you want i can upgrade it to edgy and test adept-dist-upgrader or do any other test you need on it.
[08:29] <toma> nixternal: whats the past tense of strike through?
[08:29] <nixternal> heh, trick question
[08:29] <toma> "... will be shown as a message strike through" ?
[08:29] <nixternal> struck through?
[08:30] <toma> ;-)
[08:30] <nixternal> struck would be past tense of strike
[08:30] <nixternal> man, I need to work on my English
[08:30] <nixternal> lol
[08:30] <toma> hmm
[08:30] <manchicken> So is anybody going to help me out with the details button causing crashing for adept? :)
[08:30] <toma> you do documentation, right?
[08:30] <toma> ;-)
[08:30] <nixternal> toma: yes, I do it, but I never said it was correct :)
[08:31] <toma> lol
[08:31] <nixternal> speaking of documentation, I will start this week on some mailody lovin'
[08:31] <nixternal> 5 more days until our string freeze here. then I can do Mailody, then work on KDE4 and KOffice 2 stuff
[08:31] <toma> nixternal: great, i'm extending the documentation as we speak
[08:31] <nixternal> yay, more work :)
[08:32] <fdoving> nice work guys, now i'm the lazy one.
[08:32] <nixternal> haha
[08:33] <toma> fdoving: you found this out after two weeks ? ;-)
[08:34] <fdoving> yep :)
[08:43] <claydoh> lol strike-through in this case (i think) is a noun
[08:43] <claydoh> so no past tense
[08:44] <toma> ow
[08:44] <claydoh> but things may have changed in grammer since the 70's
[08:44] <toma> lol
[08:44] <claydoh> or my lang skill has gone the way of my spelling
[08:45] <toma> claydoh: so the sentence as i pasted was correct?
[08:45] <claydoh> yes
[08:45] <claydoh> though it might be 'strike-through' with a dash, not sure on that
[08:46] <claydoh> I did get an a+ in grammar back in middle school, but that was 1979
[08:47] <toma> claydoh: o, is that high?
[08:47] <claydoh> thats almost shakespearean age
[08:47] <claydoh> yes, it was a score of 100%
[08:48] <toma> o good
[08:48] <claydoh> you would never know it now, though :)
[09:07] <manchicken> I *really* need a hand with this.
[10:19] <_StefanS_> hi there
[10:21] <manchicken> hiya
[11:33] <jjesse> in my feisty vm i'm seeing a lot of messages under a "console session"
[11:33] <jjesse> ata2.00 exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0
[11:34] <jjesse> any ideas what those might be?  i don't see anything when i'm a kde session
[11:34] <nixternal> I need to put Kubuntu back into a vm