[05:49] <Hobbsee> @schedule
[05:49] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Mar 15:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team
[06:10] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[06:10] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 06 Mar 02:00: Kernel Team | 07 Mar 05:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Mar 07:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 23:00: Edubuntu | 09 Mar 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 21:00: LoCo Team
[12:32] <daviey> @schedule london
[12:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 05 Mar 15:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team
[12:46] <crimsun> @schedule new york
[12:46] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 05 Mar 10:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 13:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 15:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 06:00: LoCo Team
[04:01] <BenC> Welcome everyone
[04:01] <BenC> only person we're missing is Tim, and he should be here any second
[04:01] <kylem> moo.
[04:01] <BenC> kylem: Please leave cows outside the channel
[04:02] <BenC> I leave my in the pastures, you can do the same :)
[04:02] <BenC> *mine
[04:02] <kylem> haha.
[04:02] <BenC> This is going to be short, no set agenda, so we'll be doing an open format
[04:02] <BenC> core team business first
[04:03] <BenC> kylem, pkl, rtg: Any issues, concerns, comments, suggestions?
[04:03] <kylem> BenC, have you seen the paravirt patches on linux-kernel from ingo today to clean up the issues about vdso?
[04:03] <pkl_> no, making slow progress on the bugs.
[04:03] <zul> morning
[04:03] <BenC> I know I still need to do the bug triage wiki :)
[04:04] <BenC> probably get to that this evening when we get back
[04:04] <rtg> Suspend to RAM has lots of problems.
[04:04] <pkl_> not going out in the town then? :-)
[04:04] <pkl_> in -> on
[04:04] <BenC> kylem: No, definitely interested in them though
[04:05] <zul> I might have a copy of i9t
[04:05] <BenC> pkl_: Only if invited, and only if they pay the tab :)
[04:05] <BenC> rtg: Yeah, we need to discuss your proposal on kernel-team@l.u.c
[04:06] <zul> I say disable suspend to ram ;)
[04:06] <BenC> rtg: I've skimmed your comments, and I think it's probably the right thing, but I need to see about what to do in userspace to enforce it
[04:06] <BenC> enforce it, and allow it to be enabled easily for those who want to use it
[04:06] <rtg> zul: I suggested that S2R be marked as experimental.
[04:07] <BenC> kylem: Want to look at pulling those patches in?
[04:07] <zul> rtg: ah cool
[04:08] <rtg> The patches Ben is talking about will help me track down misbehaving drivers with regard to S2R.
[04:08] <BenC> kylem: Oh, we already forced vdso back on for paravirt
[04:08] <pkl_> rtg:  The idea is to apply them to our Feisty kernel, and hopefully get them accepted upstream?
[04:08] <cjwatson> whoa, what's that about disabling suspend to RAM?
[04:08] <zul> BenC: are we thinking about xen paravirt-ops for feisty?
[04:09] <pkl_> rtg: Still no response from upstream?
[04:09] <rtg> pkl: Eventually.
[04:09] <BenC> zul: Has someone cleaned it up so it doesn't look like someone took a huge dump on the core kernel?
[04:09] <rtg> pkl: I've had some response, but have yet to propose the patches.
[04:09] <zul> BenC: I believe so, I havent checked recently. I can look at it this week
[04:10] <BenC> cjwatson: It's a huge matter of it not working for a lot of people, but this is only a suggestion at this point
[04:10] <cjwatson> right, but for those people for whom it does work, disabling it isn't so good ...
[04:10] <cjwatson> (and there are a lot of those too)
[04:10] <rtg> cjwatson: I'm not proposing that we disable S2R, just mark it as experimental. Its a huge regression  from Edgy.
[04:11] <BenC> cjwatson: Right, which is why 99% probability it wont even be considered :)
[04:12] <BenC> cjwatson: We're trying to get things fixed, but we're also looking at alternatives
[04:12] <cjwatson> given our historical user base, I think it's definitely worthwhile putting resources into fixing it where possible
[04:12] <rtg> cjwatson: Its all I've been working on for 3 weeks.
[04:12] <pkl_> Any idea when it broke?
[04:12] <BenC> cjwatson: mainly there are drivers breaking things, and finding them is hard
[04:13] <BenC> it's not S2R that is broken, it's drivers and kernel bits that are keeping things from suspending well
[04:13] <rtg> pkl: The breakages are due to many reasons, not just a single driver.
[04:13] <BenC> it locks up before the suspend is complete
[04:13] <pkl_> rtg: but it apparently used to work much better?  Do you know what kernel changes caused the regression?
[04:14] <rtg> Actually, most platforms suspend OK, it is the resume that has problems.
[04:14] <cjwatson> can we maybe maintain a blacklist of drivers that are known to break resume and avoid offering suspend if they're there?
[04:15] <cjwatson> (we only offer it conditionally as it is)
[04:15] <BenC> cjwatson: That's the problem...finding out which driver is causing it
[04:15] <cjwatson> ok
[04:15] <BenC> rtg's laptop produces at least one form of the problem, so he and I will work on bisecting it this week
[04:16] <rtg> My Dell XPS exhibits problems in core console code. thats a hard one to blacklist.
[04:16] <BenC> likely we'll start to uncover some similar issues elsewhere after finding one
[04:16] <rtg> lib_pata has been causing problems as well.
[04:17] <zul> do we have a list of regressions from edgy?
[04:17] <BenC> I think we may need to look into the libata-acpi patches
[04:17] <BenC> zul: launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bugs :)
[04:17] <zul> BenC: heh besides that
[04:18] <BenC> we don't have a concise list, no
[04:18] <zul> I can start on it.
[04:19] <BenC> Ok, bugs, bugs, bugs
[04:19] <BenC> let's work on getting the list of Unconfirmed bugs way down
[04:20] <BenC> as soon as I get the wiki page done, I'll post to kernel-team@ and hopefully we can get the stagnant bugs taken care of
[04:20] <BenC> Moving on...
[04:20] <BenC> Any community input, questions?
[04:20] <zul> I dont think so
[04:21] <BenC> I know we have a lot of community members interested in helping, but not sure how to help
[04:21] <BenC> I hope to add some more info on that to the wiki
[04:21] <BenC> and the bug triaging wiki page will go a long way to steering you folks into the abyss we call kernel-development :)
[04:22] <BenC> Looks like we'll be finished quite early today
[04:23] <BenC> I'll remain on until the official end of the meeting (other core are invited to as well) in case anyone pops in for a question
[04:23] <BenC> Thanks everyone, and have a good week
[04:24] <pkl_> OK.  Hope you have a fun time where you are :)
[11:38] <Toadstool> @schedule Los_Angeles
[11:38] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 06 Mar 10:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 12:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 03:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 11:00: Derivative Team
[11:50] <daviey> @schedule london
[11:50] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team