[01:32] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I had a zope question for you
[01:32] <LaserJock> ajmitch: about schooltool and schoolbell
[01:32] <LaserJock> but it seems they are sort of not in the best shape
[01:33] <ajmitch> I know
[01:33] <ajmitch> and Fujitsu explained it well for you
[01:33] <LaserJock> I was trying to fix something
[01:34] <LaserJock> and found out the newer versions were FTBFS because of zope deps
[01:34] <LaserJock> seems a shame for Main packages
[01:34] <ajmitch> which are there for a reason, since zope 3 isn't a completely stable API
[01:37] <ajmitch> it's a shame that we have shipped school* in previous releases, and they'll be broken in feisty
[01:37] <LaserJock> so we cease to be able to fix schooltool and schoolbell
[01:37] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure how broken they are, I just know we can't rebuild them
[01:38] <ajmitch> fairly broken, I heard
[01:40] <ajmitch> that's the problme with developing on early revisions of APIs while the platform is still changing
[01:42] <nixternal> ajmitch: Microsoft would disagree with that last statement :)
[01:43] <nixternal> ahh, I get it, closet vista'er ;p
[01:44] <ajmitch> real helpful
[01:45] <nixternal> hehe
[01:54] <jdong> nixternal: is there a way to delete or overwrite wiki attachments??
[01:54] <nixternal> jdong: in the drop down, you can select Attachments
[01:55] <nixternal> once you are there you can del the attachment, or just upload a new one with the same name
[01:56] <jdong> nixternal: you obviously have more buttons than me
[01:56] <jdong> nixternal: I don't have a del link, and uploading a new one with same name spits an error
[01:56] <nixternal> hrmm
[01:56] <nixternal> jdong: which page?
[01:57] <jdong> nixternal: iPodVideoEncoding
[01:57] <jdong> nixternal: I need to replace pypodconv with a newer version
[01:57] <nixternal> alrighty, let me look at the page
[01:58] <jdong> You are not allowed to delete attachments on this page.
[01:58] <jdong> haha, trying to hack the URL :PO
[01:58] <nixternal> whoa
[01:58] <nixternal> jdong: you are right, you can't delete
[01:58] <jdong> nixternal: lol, then remove the attachement, please :)
[01:58] <jdong> I'll host the file elsewhere
[01:59] <nixternal> I can't even remove it, this is silly
[01:59] <jdong> LOL
[01:59] <nixternal> let me try a silly trick
[01:59] <jdong> that's hilarious
[01:59] <jdong> &do=del?
[01:59] <jdong> tried that :D
[01:59] <nixternal> You are not allowed to delete attachments on this page.
[01:59] <nixternal> silly trick
[01:59] <nixternal> hahaha ya
[01:59] <nixternal> OK, this is seriously stupid
[02:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: people blog about that? :-)
[02:12] <LaserJock> oh geeze, that weirdo from ChiTown is at it again ;-)
[02:14] <ajmitch> apparantly
[02:18] <crimsun> RE: jono's email: getting people isn't going to help if we don't train them.
[02:19] <ajmitch> which email was this, crimsun ?
[02:20] <ajmitch> ah I see it now
[02:20] <crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-March/001346.html
[02:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: I agree
[02:22] <LaserJock> having people flailing around doesn't really help a lot of the time
[02:22] <ajmitch> we've often had a number of people wanting to help in some way
[02:22] <LaserJock> we probably scare quite a few off
[02:22] <crimsun> the rather significant time investment shouldn't be seen as a crutch, though. There should be a way to turn it into a point of pride.
[02:22] <ajmitch> I see he wants to help define direction
[02:22] <ajmitch> but in what way?
[02:23] <LaserJock> well, I think he's wanting discussion
[02:25] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, LaserJock: (re SchoolTool) There are no release plans at this time. There is unlikely to be a release for at least another year or so at least. I'd recommend demotion or removal.
[02:25] <LaserJock> uggg
[02:25] <LaserJock> people will certainly complain
[02:26] <ajmitch> but nothing can be done
[02:26] <bddebian> What'd I miss now?
[02:26] <ajmitch> you've been promoted as head MOTU
[02:27] <bddebian> hahahahaha
[02:27] <bddebian> Now, seriously
[03:18] <Fujitsu> Anybody know if/how dual-head works on i810-modesetting at the moment?
[03:26] <jdong> sounds sexy.
[03:26] <jdong> lol
[03:31] <crimsun> Fujitsu: a rebuild of Debian experimental's source package against Ubuntu Feisty's current archive works.
[03:31] <crimsun> it should be synced this week as the driver build portion of the X.Org 7.2 transition.
[03:31] <Fujitsu> Which source package? i810-modesetting?
[03:31] <crimsun> yes.
[03:32] <crimsun> I've been providing a package (built against the older xorg-server) on tiber
[03:32] <Fujitsu> That's the one I've got.
[03:32] <crimsun> how does it fare on your hardware?
[03:32] <Fujitsu> If I rebuild it, won't I still need a new xrandr to do the magic?
[03:33] <crimsun> well, the magic needs xorg-server to be recompiled with the newer xrandr support enabled
[03:33] <Fujitsu> Ah, I presumed it was already.
[03:34] <Fujitsu> Thanks for the clarification.
[03:34] <crimsun> np
[03:39] <Fujitsu> Is changelogs.ubuntu.com inaccessible for anybody else?
[03:39] <ajmitch> given that people.u.c is also inaccessible, I'd say there could be some issues
[03:41] <Fujitsu> I'd say so.
[04:33] <nixternal> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
[04:33] <nixternal> how do I go about fixing that error?
[04:33] <nixternal> I have just noticed this one pop up recently
[04:33] <RAOF> nixternal: You want to check out the DebianMaintainerField spec.
[04:34] <nixternal> thanks RAOF 
[04:34] <RAOF> Basically, you need to use an Ubuntu associated address for the maintainer field if you make changes.
[04:35] <RAOF> The wiki page suggests a default (something like motu@ubuntu.com, but that's not it) if you don't have, or don't want to use, your own @ubuntu address.
[04:42] <nixternal> OK, fixed that, thanks again RAOF!
[04:42] <nixternal> outdated-autotools-helper-file config.guess 2003-01-10
[04:44] <RAOF> NP.
[05:24] <theCore> yay!
[05:24] <theCore> fixed a bug in Compiz
[05:24] <RAOF> Huzzah.
[05:25] <RAOF> Want to fix compiz-extra FTBFS?  If not, I'll do it as soon as I get internet at home again :)
[05:25] <theCore> well in fact, no. I fixed a bug in the `desktop-effect'
[05:25] <RAOF> Well, that's also good.
[05:25] <RAOF> The "desktops on cube" button not working?
[05:25] <theCore> yeah
[05:26] <RAOF> Thus droping the desktop-effects bug count to 3, I think.
[05:26] <RAOF> Of which, at least a couple are wishlist.
[05:26] <theCore> but ouch, my head hurt now. Coding in C is painful  
[05:27] <RAOF> Why is desktop-effects coded in C?
[05:27] <theCore> yes
[05:27] <RAOF> Surely you could *rewrite* it in Python in the same time it would take to fix a single bug?
[05:27] <RAOF> Owch.
[05:28] <RAOF> Maybe Gnome should have a "Configuration capplets may not be written in C" policy :)
[05:28] <theCore> lol, but I don't think a Python version would be really better or worth the effort  
[05:28] <RAOF> Well, no.
[05:28] <theCore> well, it's Red Hat who wrote it
[05:28] <RAOF> But it's such a trivial program.  Why would you even consider using C for something as simple?
[05:29] <theCore> because it's fun?
[05:29] <RAOF> ...until you try to fix the bugs in it? :P
[05:30] <RAOF> Anyway, kudos.
[05:30] <theCore> well, the bug wasn't hard to fix
[05:31] <RAOF> Except that it was in C?
[05:31] <RAOF> :)
[05:31] <theCore> yeah
[05:32] <theCore> and the overuse of * -> and .
[05:32] <RAOF> Ah, in the days before managed memory...
[05:35] <Fujitsu> theCore: Wasn't that bug filed like 2 hours ago?
[05:35] <theCore> Fujitsu: I don't know
[05:37] <Fujitsu> Filed 1 hour 40 minutes ago... Nice quick fix :)
[05:38] <theCore> bug #?
[05:39] <Fujitsu> bug #89786
[05:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89786 in desktop-effects "Desktop-effect does not enable cube" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89786
[05:40] <theCore> yes, that's the one. I think
[05:41] <LaserJock> RAOF: some people still like those "good old days"
[05:43] <ajmitch> back in my day, we didn't have these fancy things
[05:43] <Fujitsu> Good old i386 assembly.
[05:43] <LaserJock> I seem to be going back in time :/
[05:43] <ajmitch> flat memory model! luxury!
[05:43] <RAOF> Yeah, there's something pleasantly macho about C programming sometimes.
[05:44] <LaserJock> sometimes the speed is worth it
[05:44] <RAOF> Plus, you get to do some cool stuff.
[05:44] <LaserJock> most of the coding in my field is Fortran still
[05:44] <RAOF> Aaah, the good *ooooold* days.
[05:44] <LaserJock> one of my profs even does this new fangled Fortran90 stuff
[05:45] <LaserJock> but we like the old school Fortran better ;-)
[05:45] <RAOF> :)
[05:46] <LaserJock> now I tend to use python wrappers for the fortran and C stuff
[05:46] <theCore> what I hate of C is that it is hard to see the flow of the data
[05:47] <RAOF> That's because data doesn't flow in C.  Functions just touch it in strange and inappropriate ways :)
[05:47] <theCore> I also hate all the side-effects of assignment
[05:47] <Fujitsu> Dad uses Fortran for a fair bit of stuff.... Mostly Fortran77, I think.
[05:47] <theCore> eh, Fortran 
[05:47] <theCore> at least, it isfast
[05:48] <LaserJock> yeah, I was just working on some numerical solutions to differential equations
[05:48] <LaserJock> to fit some kinetic models of my laser blasting some molecules ;-)
[05:48] <LaserJock> all Fortran, even the plotting
[05:48] <theCore> that's cool
[05:48] <theCore> at least, to hear about :)
[05:49] <robitaille> but I don't blasts molecules
[05:51] <Fujitsu> robitaille, what do you do with it?
[05:52] <robitaille> I work on large-scale climate models    http://www.cccma.ec.gc.ca/
[05:52] <LaserJock> ohh, nifty
[05:52] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[05:52] <robitaille> it's all Fortran.  Mostly fortran 77...a bit  of fortran 90
[05:53] <theCore> I wonder if Fortress will get popular in the scientific community ...
[05:53] <Fujitsu> Meteorology is what my father does, though it's mostly processing of satellite data.
[05:53] <theCore> it is Sun answer to Fortran, and it's GPLed!
[05:54] <Fujitsu> Sun does seem to be doing the whole GPL thing a lot lately.
[05:54] <theCore> Sun is really trying to appeal the free software community 
[05:54] <robitaille> never heard on Fortress.    We mostly work on IBM Aix supercomputers, and they provide are generally pretty good.
[05:54] <theCore> Java, Solaris, Fortress ...
[05:54] <LaserJock> I honestly don't know if Fortress would catch on
[05:54] <LaserJock> I'm hoping for python to take over Fortran ;-)
[05:55] <theCore> hehe
[05:55] <LaserJock> that's what I use now
[05:55] <LaserJock> scipy/matplotlib
[05:55] <theCore> robitaille: http://fortress.sunsource.net/
[05:55] <RAOF> Sounds good.
[05:55] <theCore> oh, I was wrong
[05:56] <theCore> it uses the BSD license
[05:56] <robitaille> theCore:  thanks.  
[05:57] <theCore> Sun is certainly not kidding with this language. Guy Steele Jr. is on it
[05:58] <theCore> robitaille: you may want to look at the research page too : http://research.sun.com/projects/plrg/
[05:59] <robitaille> theCore:  the thing is...our main app have 100,000 lines of code, and some of it is decade old.  I don't see us ever switching away from Fortran.  Scientists are quite conservative :)
[06:00] <theCore> "Fortress `loops' are parallel by default" -- crazy!
[06:00] <theCore> robitaille: yeah, I know. I think they are targeting people who builds new applications
[06:00] <LaserJock> robitaille: I totally know what you mean
[06:01] <LaserJock> robitaille: our data acquisition program is C and must be 10-15 years old
[06:01] <LaserJock> we just keep modifying it as needed
[06:03] <robitaille> I always laugh when I see some code we use and  the earliest date in the comments go back to the early 1980s.
[06:03] <theCore> the really crazy thing about Fortress is they use mathematical notation with Unicode for expressing programs  
[06:04] <LaserJock> robitaille: wow, yours has comments?!? :-)
[06:04] <theCore> (lol)
[06:05] <robitaille> Well...the name of the first author, and a 3-4 words description.  We are generally pretty bad at comments.
[06:05] <ajmitch> back in LaserJock's day they didn't even have variables, let alone comments!
[06:05] <LaserJock> mine has probably a few thousand lines of code and basically no comments
[06:05] <LaserJock> every time we get a new oscilloscope we have to rewrite it
[06:06] <LaserJock> and it requires a 2.4 kernel
[06:07] <theCore> oh, I see the fun
[06:09] <ajmitch> ugh, there's a MOTU meeting this week, isn't there?
[06:09] <LaserJock> really?
[06:09] <LaserJock> we should invite Jono
[06:10] <robitaille> ajmitch: I can quietly delete it from the Fridge if you don't want it to occur :)  
[06:10] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: read motu ML.  just did
[06:10] <Hobbsee> robitaille: *grin*
[06:10] <Fujitsu> What time is it?
[06:11] <ajmitch> 7am on the 7th for you
[06:11] <LaserJock> decent time :-)
[06:19] <LaserJock> man
[06:19] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: ?
[06:20] <LaserJock> you AU/NZ have no "take one for the team" attitude ;-)
[06:20] <Fujitsu> ?
[06:20] <LaserJock> the comments ^^
[06:20] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[06:25] <theCore> Bug #89786
[06:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89786 in desktop-effects "Desktop-effect does not enable cube" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89786
[06:25] <theCore> I added the patch
[06:27] <Fujitsu> desktop-effects | 0.7.1-0ubuntu1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au feisty/main Packages
[06:27] <theCore> should I send the bug upstream?
[06:27] <Fujitsu> Note the main, theCore.
[06:28] <Fujitsu> That is a possibility, yes.
[06:28] <Fujitsu> Probably the best idea.
[06:29] <theCore> I wonder where is upstream though...
[06:29] <theCore> Red Had?
[06:29] <theCore> Red Hat*
[06:29] <theCore> or GNOME?
[06:30] <Fujitsu> Upstream Author: Fedora Project
[06:30] <Fujitsu> (from debian/copyright)
[06:31] <Fujitsu> Best to look in their BTS, I would guess.
[06:31] <jdong> it's Fedora's applet :)
[06:35] <ajmitch> LaserJock: of course we do
[06:35] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we delegate it out to someone like Hobbsee 
[06:35] <LaserJock> lol
[06:35] <Fujitsu> ...who then delegates it to her minions.
[06:35] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: rubbish.
[06:35] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *exactly*
[06:35] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: rubbish?
[06:38] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: you dont need to delegate to me
[06:41] <ajmitch> oh I do
[06:41] <ajmitch> I'll be at work, maybe in a meeting at that time
[06:42] <ajmitch> bye hobbsee...
[06:46] <jdong> heh, ironpython... how amusing
[06:46] <jdong> too bad it has several embedded os.system() calls that don't work in ipy.... :(
[06:47] <jdong> theCore: btw, I'm more than completely confident that Fedora desktop-effects does not suffer from our cube bug
[06:48] <theCore> jdong: hmm, then should we add it as a debian patch ?
[06:48] <jdong> theCore: yeah, I'd say so
[06:48] <jdong> theCore: I used rawhide the other day ,and desktop effects activated as advertised....
[06:48] <jdong> so it must be something about our Compiz's default config?
[06:49] <theCore> maybe 
[06:49] <jdong> thanks for looking into that :)
[06:50] <theCore> I could do the debian patch, but I am not sure if I fixed the bug "the right way" 
[06:51] <theCore> my patch make desktop-effects changes the number of workspace to one when Compiz is enabled 
[06:51] <jdong> theCore: you mean when cube is checked, right?
[06:52] <theCore> no, also when it's unchecked
[06:52] <jdong> but theCore , that's correct behavior IMO.... 1 desktop with 4-sided viewport.
[06:52] <theCore> well, no
[06:52] <jdong> theCore: it sounds fine to me....
[06:52] <theCore> the two conflicts
[06:53] <jdong> set /apps/compiz/general/screen0/options/hsize=4, right?
[06:53] <theCore> so, you end up with a cube per workspace
[06:53] <jdong> and then n_o_d to 1
[06:53] <theCore> (an hypercube :)
[06:53] <jdong> lol
[06:53] <jdong> well to me it looks like it works just fine
[06:54] <jdong> everything behaves as expected
[06:54] <jdong> unchecking cube goes to the typical slide-behavior
[06:54] <jdong> it's defintiely better than the unfixed behavior ;-)
[06:55] <theCore> maybe I should take a video of my hypercube ...
[06:55] <theCore> it kinda weirds, though 
[06:56] <theCore> me, the cube functionality works perfectly fine, except that I got an hypercube
[06:57] <jdong> why do you have a hypercube?
[06:57] <Lathiat> mmm hypercube
[06:57] <jdong> I set hsize=4 and ndesktops=1 and get a normal cube....
[06:57] <jdong> not saying that a hypercube wouldn't be fascinating
[06:57] <RAOF> Can't you just set n_o_d to 1 and hsize to 4 when you select "cube" and change them back when unselecting cube?
[06:57] <theCore> I got a cube per workspace
[06:57] <jdong> RAOF: no real need to set them back
[06:57] <jdong> theCore: did you set ndesktops=1
[06:57] <RAOF> It's not really a hypercube.  There are only 4 of them :P
[06:58] <theCore> yes
[06:58] <RAOF> jdong: But if you leave n_o_d at 1, doesn't it break the Gnome-panel desktop switcher applet thingy?
[06:58] <jdong> RAOF: nope
[06:58] <jdong> RAOF: it works just fine even when cube is off
[06:58] <RAOF> Oh, cool.  That's been fixed behind my back then :)
[06:59] <jdong> RAOF: you simply get a slide rather than a fade effect
[06:59] <jdong> OH DEAR GOD
[06:59] <jdong> I set n_o_d=4
[06:59] <jdong> and got that hypercube effect
[06:59] <theCore> hehe
[06:59] <jdong> geez that's weird
[07:00] <Fujitsu> What's the hypercube?
[07:00] <jdong> Fujitsu: each workspace is a cube
[07:00] <theCore> AHH, my system is breaking apart ....
[07:00] <jdong> Fujitsu: so you get 4 desktops of 4 cubes each
[07:00] <jdong> Fujitsu: very confusing to use, in other words :)
[07:00] <theCore> "This problem report is damaged and cannot be processed"
[07:00] <Fujitsu> You only see one cube at a time?
[07:00] <jdong> Fujitsu: right
[07:01] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[07:01] <jdong> Fujitsu: but if you flip to another desktop you can manipulate to a totally different cube
[07:01] <jdong> with nothing on it
[07:01] <jdong> lol
[07:01] <jdong> I had to put tomboy notes with numbers
[07:01] <jdong> to make sense
[07:01] <jdong> of what's going on
[07:01] <theCore> ok, setting n_o_d to four, when you already got the hypercube, is bad ...
[07:02] <jdong> lol
[07:02] <jdong> LaserJock: but this is so mathematically intriguing
[07:03] <jdong> hmm, what's the rate of change of surface area as you add the n+1th desktop?
[07:03] <jdong> LaserJock: I'm sure you can form a benzene ring of desktops
[07:03] <LaserJock> lol
[07:03] <jdong> and have various apps be the electrons
[07:03] <jdong> betcha can't catch them :D
[07:03] <LaserJock> but what desktop does the app live on?
[07:04] <RAOF> It doesn't, obviously.
[07:04] <jdong> lol
[07:04] <RAOF> Well, some will.
[07:04] <jdong> LaserJock: shroedinger will tell you none. :)
[07:04] <RAOF> But the conjugate apps will just kinda be there :)
[07:04] <jdong> lol
[07:04] <LaserJock> I know!!!
[07:04] <jdong> is that like emacs and vim?
[07:04] <LaserJock> square it!
[07:04] <jdong> conjugate apps? :D
[07:04] <theCore> emacs?
[07:04] <LaserJock> then it will be come a real app!
[07:05] <jdong> LaserJock: no, you get 2 real and 2 more imaginary apps :)
[07:05] <RAOF> Surely that will only collapse the waveform and stick it on a particular desktop?
[07:05] <theCore> (my Emacs detector tingled)
[07:05] <LaserJock> eigen desktops?
[07:05] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hahah.
[07:05] <LaserJock> ahhhh, the nerd's life :-)
[07:05] <RAOF> The desktop isn't an object itself; more it is a filter on the measure-space of application positions :P
[07:06] <jdong> lol
[07:06] <LaserJock> I just think we need to come up with a formulation of the workspace-desktop duality
[07:07] <LaserJock> is it a desktop?
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Workspace-desktop duality. I like it.
[07:07] <LaserJock> is it a workspace?
[07:07] <LaserJock> it's both simultaneously
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Until you look at it!
[07:07] <theCore> a surface?
[07:07] <theCore> a plane?
[07:07] <theCore> a cube side?
[07:08] <theCore> a hypercube side?
[07:08] <RAOF> Fujitsu: No, you can simultaneously measure it's workspace and desktop qualities, if you do so carefully :)
[07:08] <LaserJock> but where does Heisenburg fit in here?
[07:08] <Fujitsu> RAOF: Impossible!
[07:08] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's what we can't determine. Where it fits.
[07:08] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:09] <LaserJock> the more accurately you know what workspace you are on the less accurately know what app is on that workspace?
[07:09] <RAOF> Fujitsu: I quote "New Scientist" from a couple of weeks ago: "The experiment seems to overthrow the desktop or workspace principle, and the apparatus appears capable of measuring both simultaneously"
[07:10] <Fujitsu> RAOF: Whatever you say :P
[07:10] <Fujitsu> theCore: The uncertainty principal.
[07:10] <theCore> ah the uncertainty!
[07:10] <Fujitsu> *principle
[07:10] <theCore> Fujitsu: ah, your faster than my brain 
[07:10] <theCore> (maybe, I am just too tired...)
[07:11] <theCore> you're*
[07:12] <theCore> ok, enough cubes for today. I don't want to get lost in the hyper-dimensional space during my dreams tonight 
[07:12] <LaserJock> http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=796
[07:14] <theCore> ok, this comic made me laugh, I am really too tired
[07:14] <theCore> good bye, all
[07:45] <dholbach> good morning
[07:45] <Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
[07:45] <dholbach> hi Fujitsu
[09:38] <[StingRay] > Hi all, dappers gs-esp is broken. I made a source install of 8.54-gpl and now all is fine. I want to make a deb package out of the source with pbuilder. I have it installed. I have a question: In the howto it says - sudo pbuilder build *.dsc Where do I get the dsc from (apt-get source gs-esp???)
[09:38] <[StingRay] > I am willing to help others too by building this package.
[09:39] <Lutin> [StingRay] : what's borken in this package ?
[09:39] <Lutin> broken*
[09:40] <[StingRay] > Lutin, fonts...and some printer problems with Konika Minolta 1400W
[09:40] <[StingRay] > If I print Courier New (from wine) I get half characters...
[09:40] <[StingRay] > I used a 7.07 deb file but I makes other problems...
[09:40] <[StingRay] > I built 8.54 gpl from source and now all is just fine
[09:41] <Lutin> [StingRay] : does the edgy version work fine ?
[09:41] <[StingRay] > I had visual defects on OO and Micorosft office
[09:42] <[StingRay] > as for the fonts yes...but cannot tell if the visual problems with OO and the printing problems with KM1400W are there (did not test...)
[09:43] <Lutin> ok :/. because I highly doubt that putting a new version in dapper is possible. i'm no muto though
[09:43] <Lutin> motu*
[09:43] <[StingRay] > Can you help me in my builiding problem... :/
[09:43] <[StingRay] > I am too new
[09:44] <[StingRay] > I don't want to build this from source on all my future machines...
[09:46] <Lutin> you can apt-get source it, replace the sources, add a nentry in the changelog and then run debuild -S -sa
[09:48] <Lutin> and then you'll be able to run pbuilder :)
[09:48] <[StingRay] > So I replace the original gs-esp 8.15.2...tar.gz with gs-esp 8.54....tar.gz. Then I place the gs-esp 8.15.2 in the same dir and start "debuild -S -sa", right? (Should I tar my compilation directory, where the makefile is???)
[09:49] <[StingRay] > Sorry for my newbiesh knowledge
[09:49] <[StingRay] > gs-esp 8.15.2....dsc I meant
[09:49] <Lutin> basically, you have to replace the odl tar by the new one, replace the old sources by the new ones
[09:50] <Lutin> rename the source folder to match the new source version
[09:51] <Lutin> and add in entry in debian/changelog to match that version change; then go in the source folder and run debuild ;)
[09:51] <[StingRay] > I will start right now
[09:52] <[StingRay] > Lutin, what do you call the changelog? The dsc file?
[09:53] <Lutin> [StingRay] : non, then source_dir/debian/changelog file
[09:53] <Lutin> no*
[10:02] <[StingRay] > Lutin, I edited the /8.15.2/debian/changelog. Now I have to do this, right (please check it, I am afraid I will break something): 1# tar xvzpf 8.54-gpl...tar.gz ; 2#mv 8.15.2/ 8.54/ ; 3# cp 8.54-gpl../ 8.54/ -r ; 4#cd 8.54 ; 5#debuild -S -sa ;6#??? (sudo pbuilder build *.dsc). 
[10:05] <Lutin> not sure I understand everything, so here's what I think you need to do: 1# mv 8.15.2 8.54; 2# del all the source files in this folder and replace with your new version sources; 3# remove the previous orig tarball and replace it by a tarball source that you name gs-esp_8.54.orig.tar.gz; 4# go in the source folder and run debuild; 5# run pbuilder
[10:09] <Lutin> well, gotta leave. see you later :)
[10:09] <[StingRay] > you mean delete everything, but the debian/ folder
[10:10] <[StingRay] > Lutin, bye , thanks for the help
[10:10] <Lutin> [StingRay] : debian/ is not 'sources files' ;)
[10:10] <Lutin> and indeed, you have to keep it otherwise there's not point in trying to build a package :)
[10:10] <Lutin> see you
[10:10] <[StingRay] > Bye
[10:29] <stgraber> morning
[10:32] <AstralJava> dholbach: Hi there. How're things?
[10:33] <dholbach> AstralJava: hi, busy busy.
[10:33] <dholbach> AstralJava: how 'bout you?
[10:33] <AstralJava> Just fine, thanks. :)
[10:34] <AstralJava> Was wondering if you've had time to check up on that weird error with the US-look thingie?
[10:34] <AstralJava> I can't seem to make progress with it.
[10:36] <dholbach> no
[10:36] <dholbach> I have no idea about how themes work internally
[10:36] <dholbach> please write to ubuntu-art@
[10:36] <AstralJava> Oh alright.
[10:36] <AstralJava> Thanks!
[11:21] <dholbach> ubuntustudio-look and oransun-look on revu need reviewing - they're both targetted for NewPackagesFreezeUniverse exceptions
[11:22] <crimsun> queued.
[11:22] <crimsun> I need to finish sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c fixes first, though.
[11:22] <dholbach> take your time, I'll check them first
[11:22] <dholbach> just starting
[11:32] <dholbach> crimsun: only ubuntustudio-look seems to be 'ready' - i checked all the other *ubuntustudio* packages too
[11:51] <\sh> moins
[11:58] <shawarma> 'morning.
[11:59] <stgraber> hi \sh shawarma 
[11:59] <shawarma> stgraber: Did you notice the new network-manager-openvpn packages?
[11:59] <crimsun> stgraber: I've committed the fix for 88400, but I can't test it locally
[12:00] <crimsun> unfortunately it's dependent on quite a bit more code
[12:00] <stgraber> shawarma: yes, but it hasn't reached archive.u.c for now
[12:01] <\sh> opps...need to write a new UVF for 0.9.32 wine
[12:01] <shawarma> stgraber: I saw it there just a few minutes ago..
[12:02] <shawarma> stgraber: unless you're on sparc, of course.
[12:02] <shawarma> stgraber: It seems sparc builds are lagging for some reason.
[12:02] <stgraber> shawarma: ok, seems to be in now (it wasn't 15 minutes ago)
[12:02] <shawarma> stgraber: Oh, ok.
[12:06] <stgraber> crimsun: ok, fine. For now I use -8 to have sound working. Let me know if I there is a way I can test your patch.
[12:25] <zorglu_> q. anybody knows a package using /etc/init.d script launching a deamon with some options ? i got one to write and apparently i got trouble with the usual start-stop-daemon --stop 
[12:25] <crimsun> sure, look at openvpn.
[12:25] <zorglu_> aka the start-stop-daemon doesnt find the deamon running, while it is running and /var/run/pid is ok
[12:26] <zorglu_> crimsun: thanks lookin
[12:26] <crimsun> good golly, this patch is fearsome
[12:26] <crimsun>  1 file changed, 509 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
[12:31] <zorglu_> hmm openvpn doesnt use start-stop-daemon, this may be the trick :)
[12:36] <zorglu_> hmm ok i miss something --stop -name mydeamon failed, if the mydaemon has been launched with cmdline option
[12:36] <zorglu_> but --exec mydaemonpath works
[12:37] <zorglu_> but cool now it works :) 'solution' copied from sysklogd
[12:39] <zorglu_> ok i know why now :)
[12:39] <zorglu_> it is due to the length of the executable name :)))))))
[12:39] <zorglu_>  /proc/pid/stat truncates it 
[12:39] <zorglu_> and --name use /proc/pid/stat
[01:24] <aboe> I got a question about a universe package, sylpheed-claws-gtk2
[01:25] <aboe> what has to be done to upgrade this to a newer version?
[01:53] <Ursinha> hi all
[01:54] <Ursinha> i don't know exactly where to ask, but where can i find the reasons for packages to be discontinued?
[01:54] <Hobbsee> Ursinha: which package?
[01:54] <Hobbsee> usually debian has
[01:54] <Ursinha> Hobbsee, now i'm looking for webmin
[01:54] <Ursinha> but i saw last version was to breezy
[01:55] <Hobbsee> debian took it out of their archive, so we did.   you'd have to check packages.debian.org
[01:55] <Ursinha> hm, okay
[01:55] <Ursinha> so actually there's no package for it today?
[01:56] <Hobbsee> well, the breezy one has a source for it, so it does exist.  effectively, you're correct
[01:57] <Ursinha> hmm.. i see... can i download the source, update the package with the new version of it and submit it again to ubuntu? is there a process for it?
[01:57] <StevenK> Oh no. Oh no.
[01:57] <StevenK> webmin has left and stay the hell out
[01:57] <StevenK> s/and/and can/
[01:58] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% madison-lite webmin-core
[01:58] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% 
[01:58] <StevenK> That ^ pleases me, and I'd like it to stay that way.
[02:00] <StevenK> Ursinha: As for the reason, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=343897
[02:00] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 343897 in ftp.debian.org "ftp.debian.org: Please remove all webmin related packages" [Wishlist,Closed]  
[02:00] <StevenK> We would have followed suit after Debian.
[02:04] <jekil> hi
[02:04] <Hobbsee> heya
[02:15] <Ursinha> okay, thanks StevenK 
[02:18] <fernando> hey all
[02:21] <tepsipakki> Seveas: ping, falcon
[02:22] <tepsipakki> Seveas: do you have a version for Feisty available?
[03:38] <xerxas> Hi all
[03:52] <bddebian> heya gang
[03:55] <renderguy> Afternoon, anyone know if 'persia' hangs-out here ?
[03:56] <bddebian> He has in the past, I haven't "seen" him lately though
[03:56] <renderguy> bddebian: Thanks, any idea where he hangs-out now?
[03:56] <bddebian> Unfortunately I don't, sorry
[03:57] <renderguy> bddebian: NP, thanks for the help anyway.
[03:57] <renderguy> Cya.
[04:49] <cbx33> any c   devs here
[04:49] <cbx33> that is cplus plus
[04:49] <cbx33> damn cgi-irc
[04:49] <cbx33> i just need a little help with ifstream
[04:54] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:54] <LaserJock> hi bddebian 
[04:57] <cbx33> LaserJock: ??
[04:59] <LaserJock> cbx33: what?
[04:59] <bddebian> LaserJock: Hey it looks like plotdrop 0.51 in upstream would probably fix the about dialog problem :-)
[05:00] <LaserJock> there's an about dialog problem?
[05:00] <cbx33> :(
[05:00] <imbrandon> woot, ppc buildd is in the rack and ip'd , wont be long and it will be ready
[05:00] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:00] <cbx33> cplusplus
[05:00] <bddebian> LaserJock: Don't you read your own bug list? ;-)
[05:00] <LaserJock> imbrandon: cool
[05:00] <LaserJock> bddebian: I thought I got everything as email, guess not
[05:01] <imbrandon> that means the only arch i'm missing now is the x86_64
[05:01] <bddebian> LaserJock: Bug #86922
[05:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86922 in plotdrop "Close button in About dialog does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86922
[05:02] <LaserJock> haha
[05:02] <LaserJock> my first LP bug has just been marked "Fix Released"
[05:02] <LaserJock> they just ripped out the component I filed the bug against :-)
[05:02] <bddebian> heh
[05:02] <imbrandon> lol
[05:03] <cbx33> AAARRGGHHHh
[05:03] <cbx33> I GIVE UP I GIVE UP
[05:03] <LaserJock> "Fixed by removing the access to the calendar application."
[05:03] <bddebian> cbx33: Welcome to the club man :'-(
[05:06] <zul> cbx33: whats the problem?
[05:06] <cbx33> I'm writing a simple progressive file loader
[05:06] <cbx33> I'm VERY new to c  
[05:06] <cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/382353
[05:07] <cbx33> that is cplusplus
[05:07] <cbx33> damn cgi-irc
[05:07] <theCore> a progressive file loader?
[05:07] <cbx33> yes
[05:07] <theCore> cbx33: btw, C++ isn't C
[05:07] <cbx33> basically the file is opened on line 48
[05:07] <cbx33> I know
[05:07] <bddebian> Not even close :)
[05:07] <cbx33> cgiirc...won;t let me send a plus symbol through
[05:07] <cbx33> c  
[05:07] <cbx33> see
[05:08] <zul> yeah I dont know anything about c++ though :)
[05:08] <cbx33> ok
[05:08] <cbx33> nm
[05:08] <bddebian> cbx33: So get xchat man.. ;-)
[05:08] <cbx33> I can't from work
[05:08] <cbx33> PORT 6667 IS BLOCKED
[05:08] <cbx33> sorry
[05:09] <imbrandon> ssh tunnels ftw
[05:09] <theCore> cbx33: your program is leaking
[05:09] <cbx33> I'm sure it is
[05:09] <theCore> you need to free resources, after using them
[05:09] <cbx33> i know
[05:09] <cbx33> I havn't got that far
[05:10] <cbx33> my problem is after opening the file on line 48
[05:10] <cbx33> i try to read from it on line 106
[05:10] <cbx33> but thefile object is....kinda dead
[05:10] <zul> heh you should be working at work not chatting..
[05:10] <cbx33> heh...
[05:10] <cbx33> lunch break
[05:10] <zul> oh the irony in that statement
[05:10] <cbx33> plus I run some ubuntu boxen....so..i get a little help ;)
[05:11] <imbrandon> lol
[05:11] <cbx33> hehe
[05:11] <cbx33> theCore, what have I done wrong....any ideas?
[05:11] <theCore> cbx33: hmm... you declared file as private
[05:11] <theCore> so, I think this why you can't access its value
[05:12] <cbx33> private means it can't be acessed outside of the class
[05:12] <cbx33> doesn't it?
[05:12] <theCore> maybe, I don't know
[05:12] <theCore> I don't code in C++
[05:15] <cbx33> I'll bb later
[05:23] <theCore> good, now I fixed compiz, too
[05:24] <imbrandon> it can be fixed? what did you do fallback to kwin/metacity ?
[05:24] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:32] <theCore> imbrandon: hehe
[05:32] <theCore> hi jdong
[05:32] <jdong> hi theCore 
[05:33] <theCore> bug 88490 was in fact a bug in compiz' package 
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88490 in compiz "Rhythmbox doesn't show its window anymore when desktop effects are enabled" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88490
[05:33] <theCore> oops, not this one
[05:33] <theCore> Bug #89786
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89786 in compiz "Desktop-effect does not enable cube" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89786
[05:33] <theCore> ah, that the one
[05:34] <jdong> theCore: cool, well that shifts some blame and ugly patching away from desktop-effects :D
[05:34] <theCore> and my patch fixes the bug I introduced by fixing this bug :)
[05:34] <theCore> yeah, it's ugly
[05:35] <theCore> but less ugly than a hypercube
[05:35] <jdong> lol
[05:35] <jdong> try explaining the hypercube desktop to Grandma :D
[05:35] <theCore> hehe
[05:37] <theCore> hmm.... I am getting weird message from the kernel
[05:37] <theCore> Message from syslogd@helios at Mon Mar  5 11:19:56 2007 ...
[05:37] <theCore> helios kernel: [ 2831.536000]  Using specific hotkey driver
[05:37] <theCore> bah, nevermind
[05:38] <theCore> it's probably just a side-effects of the dist-upgrade I just did
[05:41] <theCore> jdong, oh you're from MIT?
[05:41] <theCore> lucky one :)
[05:45] <jdong_> theCore: how'd you know? :D
[05:45] <jdong_> is my IP showing?
[05:45] <theCore> --> jdong_ (n=jdong@STRATTON-SEVEN-THIRTY-ONE.MIT.EDU) has joined #ubuntu-motu
[05:46] <jdong_> lol
[05:46] <jdong_> wow that's privacy invasion
[05:46] <theCore> haha
[05:46] <jdong_> you even got my building and room number :D
[05:46] <jdong_> lol
[05:46] <jdong_> hacker.
[05:46] <theCore> can I ask I question?
[05:46] <jdong_> sure
[05:46] <theCore> what is Athena?
[05:47] <jdong_> theCore: that's our campus computing environment
[05:47] <jdong_> it's a bunch of Solaris and Linux machines
[05:47] <jdong_> running OpenAFS file storage
[05:47] <jdong_> Kerberos authentication
[05:47] <jdong_> GNOME 2.8-ish desktop, etc
[05:47] <jdong_> all of our general-purpose public computers are *nix-powered
[05:48] <theCore> that simple? *sigh* I was hoping that it was something like Skynet :P 
[05:48] <jdong_> lol
[05:48] <jdong_> unfortunately not :D
[05:49] <jdong_> theCore: I guess it's lost some bleeding-edgeness since it first was started :D
[05:50] <jdong_> heck *nix GUI ancestry basically all traces down to Project Athena....
[05:50] <theCore> jdong_: eh, at least they run Emacs :P  
[05:50] <jdong_> theCore: alias emacs="add vim && vim"
[05:50] <theCore> haha
[05:51] <theCore> M-x all-hails-emacs
[05:51] <theCore> I am way too dedicated to this editor
[05:52] <imbrandon> nano ftw
[05:53] <Ursinha> jdong, hahahahahahah
[05:53] <bddebian> wtf is ftw?
[05:53] <theCore> for the win
[05:53] <theCore> I think
[05:53] <imbrandon> for the win
[05:53] <bddebian> Gah
[05:54] <theCore> ed ftw!
[05:54] <theCore> the standard Unix editor
[05:54] <bddebian> Ugh, that's worse than vi :)
[05:55] <theCore> ?
[05:55] <theCore> ?
[05:55] <theCore> ?
[05:55] <theCore> ^ ed user-interface
[05:55] <LaserJock> ed is considered to have a user-interface?
[05:55] <LaserJock> news to me
[05:56] <theCore> ha
[05:56] <jdong_> eth1      IEEE 802.11a  ESSID:"MIT"  Nickname:"MIT"
[05:56] <jdong_> weird, it's 802.11A
[05:57] <jdong_> never thought I'd meet an 802.11A AP in person...
[05:57] <theCore> I always find interesting that people have found an even worse editor than ed
[05:57] <theCore> cat << EOF  is way too popular
[05:58] <jdong_> ^^ HUH?
[05:58] <jdong_> success? :D
[05:59] <theCore> I like the one with the Windows key better :) 
[05:59] <jdong_> lol
[05:59] <jdong_> that was a ghost
[05:59] <jdong_> :)
[06:01] <theCore> jdong: at least at MIT, they make great textbooks 
[06:01] <bddebian> LaserJock: You run OSX on something right?
[06:01] <jdong> I still havne't had a chance to read SICP yet
[06:02] <jdong> I really want to
[06:02] <theCore> I'm thinking of SICP, and Intro. to Algorithms
[06:02] <theCore> jdong: well, it's free online
[06:02] <jdong> right
[06:02] <bddebian> I've heard of TAoCP but what is SICP?
[06:02] <theCore> but I got my hard copy
[06:02] <jdong> theCore: my CS course now is taught by Hal Abelson
[06:02] <jdong> so I get to see him in person :D
[06:03] <theCore> Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
[06:03] <jdong> bddebian: Structure & Interpretation of Computer PRograms
[06:03] <bddebian> Ahh
[06:03] <theCore> jdong: eh, lucky :)
[06:04] <theCore> I think they are switching 6.001 from Scheme to Python, though  
[06:04] <theCore> I wonder if it's a good thing or not
[06:05] <jdong> theCore: 6.081, taking it :)
[06:05] <jdong> theCore: it's a Python hands-on oriented class
[06:05] <LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, I have an intel iMac at work
[06:05] <jdong> theCore: with a smaller Scheme component (6.188)
[06:05] <bddebian> LaserJock: Does OSX use glibc or another C lib?
[06:06] <theCore> jdong: oh, nice
[06:06] <theCore> *sigh* maybe I should stop dreaming
[06:06] <LaserJock> bddebian: well, it's BSD based, I'm not positive but I think it might be different
[06:06] <jdong> theCore: speaking of that I have a scheme assignment I need to do for tomorrow :D
[06:06] <shawarma> Who reviews Summer of Code applications for Ubuntu?
[06:07] <bddebian> LaserJock: BSD based? I thought it was Mach based?  Or do you mean the userland stuff?
[06:07] <LaserJock> bddebian: yes
[06:07] <LaserJock> userland stuff
[06:07] <bddebian> Ah, OK, thx
[06:07] <jdong> LaserJock: is it better than Vista SUA? :D
[06:07] <LaserJock> jdong: OS X?
[06:07] <jdong> which... actually ain't half bad for a UNIX environment
[06:08] <jdong> LaserJock: lol it was a joke :)
[06:08] <imbrandon> the kernel is mach+bsd the userland is bsd
[06:08] <LaserJock> jdong: I haven't seen Vista yet but I can't imagine it being anything I'd like
[06:08] <imbrandon> bddebian, the kernel is mach+bsd the userland is bsd
[06:08] <bddebian> It's Windows XP made "Pretty" like MockOS ;-P
[06:08] <bddebian> imbrandon: Aye, thx
[06:08] <jdong> LaserJock: for the times I use it, I start up tcsh full screen and try to tune out the rest :)
[06:08] <jdong> bddebian: you mean machOS?
[06:09] <bddebian> jdong: No, MockOS == Mac OS ;-P
[06:09] <LaserJock> jdong: it takes a little getting used to but I really like it
[06:09] <imbrandon> if i had to use tcsh i'd tune out the world too
[06:09] <LaserJock> jdong: if it was FLOSS I'd really have a hard time choosing between OS X and Ubuntu
[06:09] <LaserJock> I've not used tcsh before
[06:09] <jdong> LaserJock: yeah, that's for sure
[06:09] <LaserJock> just bash and zsh
[06:10] <jdong> LaserJock: it's like LISP, only with semicolons not parentheses
[06:10] <jdong> and it tends to like beeping at you more than Jerry Springer
[06:10] <LaserJock> lol
[06:10] <LaserJock> I need to figure out zsh better
[06:11] <LaserJock> I tried it a little bit and it's really pretty cool
[06:11] <LaserJock> I can see why theCore likes it
[06:11] <jdong> somehow I still like bash more at this point
[06:11] <theCore> hehe
[06:11] <LaserJock> zsh+emacs = more power than I could ever know what to do with
[06:12] <theCore> that's my combo, too
[06:12] <jdong> god those two together
[06:12] <jdong> is like playing mortal combat
[06:12] <jdong> you keep on hitting random buttins
[06:13] <jdong> till a special move happens
[06:13] <imbrandon> lol
[06:13] <jdong> and you win :)
[06:13] <theCore> rofl
[06:15] <LaserJock> I liked that I could set up tab completion of users and machines
[06:15] <LaserJock> made ssh'ing to lot of different machines nicer
[06:18] <theCore> the only thing that annoys me a bit about Zsh is that the tab-completion for APT is kinda slow
[06:37] <jdong> ok, xchat/gaim should really disconnect themselves on suspend... perhaps thru the help of networkmanager
[06:37] <jdong> lol
[06:37] <jdong> Is this the line for the request-a-feature service? :D
[06:39] <theCore> jdong: there's a networkmanager plugin included in xchat, no?
[06:40] <theCore> jdong: or, you could use the auto-away plugin
[06:41] <jdong> theCore: xchat-gnome has one
[06:42] <lizardking_> Hello. I have a question on REVU
[06:42] <lizardking_> I have done the modifed version descripted above. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4545 How I can now update the packge, without duplicate the oransun-look entries?
[06:42] <bddebian> Whoa, it's Jim Morrison! :-)
[06:42] <jdong_> heh, nope
[06:43] <jdong_> it doesn't figure out when network connection goes down or back up
[06:43] <bddebian> lizardking_: If you re-upload it should overright the existing package, or am I missing something in your question?
[06:43] <jdong_> hmm, then what does it do? :D
[06:43] <lizardking_> bddebian: wonderful. I understand!you miss nothing
[06:44] <bddebian> Great :)
[06:44] <theCore> jdong_: open your editor, go to xchat source, start hacking :)
[06:44] <bddebian> hehe
[06:45] <jdong_> that's such a hobbsee answer
[06:45] <theCore> don't tell me, I will have to do it for you :P
[06:45] <lizardking_> bddebian: according to this http://rafb.net/p/Q7v4f059.html I inserted the GPL text in debian/copyright, remoevd the 0ubuntu1 from changelog. Should I add somthin more?
[06:47] <bddebian> lizardking_: This is going to be a native package?
[06:47] <lizardking_> bddebian: mhh, I'm not sure of the word "native package". Could you explain more, please?
[06:48] <theCore> eww... I just installed rpm
[06:48] <bddebian> lizardking_: Meaning it's "native" to Debian and/or Ubuntu, not maintained elsewhere
[06:49] <lizardking_> bddebian: ahhh. ok. I manained it on bzr and luanchpad. so internal in Ubuntu
[06:51] <bddebian> lizardking_: OK, then dropping the -0ubuntu1 should be fine and you don't need an orig.tar.gz, just <package>_<version>.tar.gz
[07:00] <theCore> I wonder if I installed Xen correctly... 
[07:04] <imbrandon> pbuilders done, accounts made, ppc builder is online ( for those that care )
[07:04] <tonyyarusso> cool
[07:04] <\sh> imbrandon, where? and what do I have to do to get an account? ,-)
[07:05] <imbrandon> \sh, just be a motu or core dev , i sync the accounts and keys from LP
[07:05] <\sh> imbrandon, ah...so I can use my ssh key...
[07:05] <imbrandon> i sent an email last week about it to ubuntu-devel ;)
[07:05] <imbrandon> 'yes
[07:05] <imbrandon> one sec
[07:05] <\sh> imbrandon, hehe...I need to read my mails from the last 3 weeks :(
[07:05] <\sh> I'm really too busy 
[07:06] <imbrandon> intrepid.ubuntuwire.com is the ppc one, aurora.ubuntuwire.com is x86 and sparky.ubuntuwire.com is parc
[07:06] <imbrandon> just use your LP user
[07:06] <imbrandon> name and the key from your LP account is sync'd
[07:06] <imbrandon> s/parc/sparc/
[07:07] <theCore> of course, it failed miserably
[07:08] <somerville32> :)
[07:10] <\sh> imbrandon, cool...works like a charme...thx for this :)
[08:06] <LaserJock> anybody know off hand if Dell optiplexs are better than dimensions?
[08:06] <theCore> eh, I guess I should be more careful with my Windows install disks... I just found mine under my desk and it got a hole in it :P
[08:08] <theCore> interestingly, all my Linux install disks are intact
[08:09] <ajmitch> hi
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm, Labview doesn't work with Vista
[08:10] <zul> surprised?
[08:10] <zul> hey ajmitch 
[08:10] <LaserJock> well, it just makes it harder because I need to buy a computer for Labview
[08:10] <zul> wine?
[08:14] <LaserJock> zul: hmm?
[08:16] <pirast> lionel, ping
[08:18] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
[08:26] <LaserJock> bah, stupid Dell
[08:27] <tonyyarusso> what'd they do now?
[08:27] <LaserJock> I can only find like 1 or 2 computers that *don't* have Vista on them
[08:28] <tonyyarusso> dell.com/nseries?
[08:28] <tonyyarusso> Or just screw it and go system76.com
[08:29] <tonyyarusso> (There hasn't been a 6.06.2 yet has there?)
[08:29] <LaserJock> I need to get a Windows computer though
[08:29] <LaserJock> no
[08:29] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, no
[08:30] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: eh?  why do you need windows?
[08:30] <imbrandon> LaserJock, your best bet is gonna be buy a system76 computer and then buy a retail xp 
[08:30] <imbrandon> ( if you can still find a retail xp )
[08:30] <tonyyarusso> I think s76 even offers dual-boots, maybe
[08:30] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: becuase I'm buying $2000-$3000 worth of Windows software that doesn't work with Vista
[08:31] <imbrandon> or go with apple + crossover mac ;)
[08:31] <LaserJock> imbrandon: a mac mini would be cool
[08:31] <tonyyarusso> Actually, two keys
[08:31] <imbrandon> LaserJock, and they run winxp ;)
[08:32] <imbrandon> and crossover mac, and vmawre fusion , and osx, and they just rock
[08:32] <LaserJock> yeah, I'd have to buy XP though
[08:32] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:32] <LaserJock> we could probably get it real cheap here though
[08:32] <LaserJock> might be able to use the site license, not sure
[08:32] <imbrandon> yea acidemic copy of xp pro shouldent be much
[08:32] <imbrandon> 'less than 100 bux
[08:33] <nixternal> academic copy of XP pro == $0 to the MSDN Academic Alliance
[08:33] <imbrandon> and then you would also have all the good ness of a mac mini 
[08:33] <nixternal> s/to/through
[08:33] <imbrandon> and the minis start at about $700 too, cheap ;)
[08:33] <nixternal> $599 if you are a student :)
[08:34] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:35] <LaserJock> I think maybe I'll just get the  Dell OptiPlex 745 for $1200
[08:35] <imbrandon> and its not a hack, tripple boot is supported ;)
[08:35] <imbrandon> NOOOOOOOOOOOO
[08:35] <imbrandon> we just bought about 40 of those for work
[08:35] <imbrandon> they are crap and dont work with edgy
[08:35] <LaserJock> that specific model?
[08:35] <imbrandon> yes
[08:35] <imbrandon> that exact model
[08:35] <LaserJock> what was crap about them other than they don't work with edgy?
[08:36] <imbrandon> thats what all our workstations at work are now, save 3 or 4 iMac's
[08:36] <imbrandon> well if you run windows on them they have to have special dell only drivers for the video, then the edgy kernels panic on them too
[08:37] <imbrandon> and the slimline dvd try is crap on them too
[08:37] <imbrandon> already broke one
[08:37] <imbrandon> tray*
[08:37] <nixternal> heh, the Dell slimline trays have always been garbage. I have broke a few in my dad
[08:37] <nixternal> not a good beer holder
[08:37] <nixternal> ;p
[08:37] <imbrandon> heh
[08:37] <nixternal> err, s/dad/day
[08:37] <LaserJock> hmmm
[08:37] <nixternal> that sounded, less than pleasant
[08:38] <LaserJock> I wonder if a 740 would be any better :/
[08:39] <imbrandon> for that kinda money grab soemthing with osx on it ;)
[08:39] <imbrandon> then load windows and linux ;)
[08:39] <LaserJock> I think I pretty much gotta go Dell
[08:39] <nixternal> $579 to be exact for a Mac Mini
[08:40] <LaserJock> hmmm
[08:40] <LaserJock> my boss does like macs
[08:40] <nixternal> $899 for a 17" iMac Core 2
[08:40] <bddebian> Why, it's a freakin' intel now.  Just run Darwin on the Dells ;-P
[08:41] <tonyyarusso> Do security-related updates for Dapper universe packages show up in the security or universe repo?  Would there be any real problem with having universe software installed by an OEM and then disabling the universe repo for the end user?
[08:41] <LaserJock> bddebian: the only dell I can buy is like $1200
[08:41] <LaserJock> bddebian: I can grab a mac mini for about half the price
[08:41] <imbrandon> bddebian, and you dont get all the GUI goodness of osx + updates
[08:41] <nixternal> I think I will buy that Mac Mini this week. I like it
[08:42] <imbrandon> yea i've been eyeing the imacs
[08:42] <bddebian> LaserJock: How is that possible?  I can buy a Dell for like 499? :-)
[08:42] <nixternal> I am not a fan of OS X, but I have been wanting to play a little more with it
[08:42] <nixternal> bddebian: actually you can get them for $250 now :)
[08:43] <imbrandon> the shitty low end ones, any dell worth having is $1000+
[08:43] <nixternal> anyone want to give a talk I am supposed to do tonight at the Court House?
[08:43] <LaserJock> bddebian: I have to have a Dell with XP
[08:43] <LaserJock> bddebian: I can get cheap ones, but they all have Vista
[08:43] <nixternal> I just hope this time at the court house I don't have to raise my right hand and swear in again :)
[08:43] <LaserJock> and are crap
[08:44] <imbrandon> nixternal, or cuffs
[08:44] <nixternal> lol, true
[08:44] <bddebian> LaserJock: Ah :)
[08:44] <nixternal> last time I wore cuffs the cop let me fall flat on my face. you gotta hold up them drunks
[08:44] <ajmitch> nixternal: last time?
[08:45] <imbrandon> lol
[08:45] <nixternal> lol ya
[08:45] <nixternal> New Years 2000 or 2001
[08:45] <zul> heh with the criminal record you shouldnt be able to get into canada ;)
[08:45] <nixternal> reminded me of the Ron White episode, I don't want to be drunk in public, I want to be drunk in bar
[08:45] <ajmitch> they'd welcome him in australia then
[08:46] <imbrandon> lol
[08:46] <nixternal> misdameanors
[08:46] <nixternal> nothing more than a traffic ticket with a detour
[08:46] <imbrandon> ron white rocks
[08:46] <nixternal> hellz ya
[08:46] <nixternal> they call me tator salad
[08:47] <imbrandon> and his son, tater tot
[08:47] <nixternal> Canada has never stopped me. as a matter of fact I am going there in a couple of weeks again.
[08:47] <nixternal> hahaha tator tot!
[08:47] <zul> nixternal: heh that can change ;)
[08:47] <tonyyarusso> Canada's nice - I enjoyed it.
[08:47] <nixternal> Canada (Banff) is starting to look like a nice place to live
[08:48] <nixternal> I love Canada, especially the Rocky Mountain area that goes through Calgary
[08:48] <nixternal> err, Alberta
[08:48] <tonyyarusso> I like the health care coverage concept
[08:48] <imbrandon> you just like cutiecoder nixternal 
[08:48] <nixternal> imbrandon: DIE!!!
[08:48] <nixternal> wtf, she is in virginia or something I thought
[08:48] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:48] <tonyyarusso> Alberta's sketchy politically though - you'd be better off going on the west slope of the mountains in BC
[08:48] <imbrandon> i thought she was in CA
[08:49] <nixternal> there is no telling, that chick was nuts
[08:49] <nixternal> oh ya, she got busted in toronto, I remember her saying that
[08:49] <nixternal> I stayed out -offtopic hiding for the longest time
[08:50] <nixternal> you have to admit though, the pics were nice ;p
[08:50] <imbrandon> hhahaha geek pr0n
[08:50] <nixternal> better than the bs you tricked me into and a month or so later I found out the truth
[08:50] <nixternal> and I couldn't handle it :)
[08:50] <tonyyarusso> what on earth are you two talking about?
[08:50] <imbrandon> hey n ow she was/is nice ;)
[08:50] <nixternal> haha
[08:51] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, some women coders we've met that were lets say ummm nuts
[08:51] <nixternal> top secret stuff imbrandon hazed me with last year
[08:51] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[08:51] <nixternal> I had to see a shrink after that ordeal
[08:51] <nixternal> electro-shock therapy didn't even help
[08:51] <nixternal> now everytime my cell phone goes off I drop to the floor crying
[08:51] <nixternal> weird
[08:52] <imbrandon> lol
[08:52] <ajmitch> imbrandon: right
[08:54] <LaserJock> nixternal: just move to MT, we've got mountains, parks, militiamen, unibomer... the works
[08:54] <imbrandon> vegas ftw ;)
[08:54] <tonyyarusso> With a hundred miles of emptiness in between all of the above
[08:55] <nixternal> forget Vegas, my buddy had his wedding in MT years back, man it was awesome
[08:55] <nixternal> haha
[08:55] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, you forgot the word "few" as in few hundred miles
[08:55] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: right
[08:55] <theCore_> that is a rather interesting way to test the live cd....
[08:55] <theCore_> I run it within QEMU
[08:55] <LaserJock> nixternal: MT rocks dude, I so wish I could get back there
[08:56] <nixternal> for (cpu = 0; cpu < infinity; cpu++)
[08:56] <nixternal> I wish that would work and make my puter faster
[08:56] <LaserJock> making fun of all the Canadians driving down to Arizona
[08:56] <LaserJock> dialup screaming fast (26.6kbs)
[08:56] <LaserJock> ah, those were the days
[08:57] <nixternal> lol
[08:57] <LaserJock> making fun of Easterners (people from Chicago) ;-)
[08:59] <theCore> there's way to many virtualization engines
[08:59] <LaserJock> now I live in a crappy city with streat lights even :/
[09:00] <nixternal> lol
[09:00] <tsmithe> well, "anywhere" in english terms
[09:00] <tsmithe> (ie 50 miles :P)
[09:01] <nixternal> I live 20mi due west of the city, I can see the Sears Tower from my bedroom window
[09:01] <nixternal> as well as all of that wonderful smog
[09:03] <tsmithe> hehe
[09:03] <LaserJock> tsmithe: sometimes it depends on the definition of a city
[09:04] <tsmithe> well, does London count?
[09:04] <LaserJock> very much so
[09:04] <tsmithe> good good
[09:04] <LaserJock> like sometimes I think about how close you are to a major sports team
[09:05] <LaserJock> or maybe a city with >500k people
[09:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that counts most of NZ out then
[09:06] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I bet
[09:06] <ajmitch> I think we have 1 city > 500K
[09:06] <zul> LaserJock: the sheep outnumber the people in NZ
[09:06] <imbrandon> i live about 10 miles from arrowhead ( cheifs ) and coffman ( royals ) stadium's
[09:06] <ajmitch> since wellington & christchurch are about 400K each
[09:06] <LaserJock> zul: the cows outnumber the people in MT, by I think 5:1 at least
[09:06] <tsmithe> imbrandon, i have no idea what kind of teams they are :P
[09:06] <nixternal> gahahaha zul!!!
[09:06] <nixternal> the sheep outnumber the people
[09:06] <nixternal> to funny
[09:07] <imbrandon> tsmithe, football and baseball
[09:07] <ajmitch> zul: they do in australia as well
[09:07] <tsmithe> football as in that crappy american game where it's actually more like rugby, and there's very little actual foot involved? *that* football?
[09:07] <imbrandon> tsmithe, thats the only football that exists
[09:07] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:08] <tsmithe> lies
[09:08] <zul> football is boring
[09:08] <tsmithe> imbrandon, we invented "football"
[09:08] <imbrandon> other than some sisy childs game thats called soccer and EU mis says it
[09:09] <imbrandon> no you invented soccer, not football,  and then fsked up the translation ;)
[09:09] <tsmithe> don't be rediculous
[09:09] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:11] <tsmithe> crap *ridiculous
[09:12] <LaserJock> hmm, I have no idea which had "football" first
[09:12] <LaserJock> football more accuratly describes soccer
[09:12] <imbrandon> football in EU is nothing more than a bad translation
[09:12] <LaserJock> but what would we call football then?
[09:13] <ajmitch> no idea, it hardly rates as 'foot'ball
[09:14] <tsmithe> imbrandon, how is it a "bad translation"?
[09:14] <tsmithe> as i said, we invented the term, as being the purveyors of original english
[09:14] <tsmithe> "we" being the british
[09:14] <imbrandon> tsmithe, when there is a word for your game called soccer and you translate it to football that means omething else
[09:14] <imbrandon> thus a bad translation
[09:15] <tsmithe> when was it translated? a translation implies changing from one language to another...
[09:15] <imbrandon> yes , thus a en_UK and en_US translations ;)
[09:15] <zul> anyways..
[09:15] <imbrandon> that is one lang to another, even though we have much in common they are diffrent
[09:16] <imbrandon> otherwise there wouldent be uk and us translations
[09:16] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:16] <imbrandon> color / colour , etc
[09:16] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:16] <tsmithe> ahh - i thought you meant within english
[09:16] <tsmithe> british english, that is
[09:17] <tsmithe> but we use the term "football" more than "soccer". people frown at you if you use the word "soccer"
[09:17] <imbrandon> see and there they mean the same thing, here they do not
[09:17] <tsmithe> there was no translation on the british behalf :P
[09:17] <tsmithe> americans just stole the word ;)
[09:17] <imbrandon> infact soccer is just a childs game here
[09:18] <imbrandon> so no one even talks about it much at all 
[09:18] <tsmithe> maybe so... but it's still misleading when the term "football" is used on irc
[09:19] <imbrandon> not any more misleading than when i type color ;) your expecting me to speak UK english because its similar but thats not the case ;)
[09:19] <tsmithe> no - cos the word is similar enough and has the same meaning
[09:20] <tsmithe> it's when we have a similar word, or in this case identical, that has a completely different definition
[09:20] <imbrandon> right , but there is no color in UK but its acepted because you know i'm speaking us english, thus the same with football since it has two meanings
[09:20] <tsmithe> i believe the term is "homonym"
[09:21] <imbrandon> hehe anyhow its all pointless
[09:21] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:21] <tsmithe> still confuses me, personally, at least, way more than "color". the word is too similar and too different :P
[09:21] <tsmithe> and it is very pointless haha
[09:22] <imbrandon> ya bloke ;)
[09:22] <tsmithe> hah!
[09:22] <imbrandon> dont worry i give jono hell whenever i see him ( as he does with me ) , i think thats how i got the name "Redneck" from jono / riddell at UDS
[09:22] <tsmithe> jdong... "bloke"!
[09:22] <tsmithe> imbrandon, hehe
[09:24] <imbrandon> and another certain irishman ( *cough*cjwatson*cough* ) that familiarized that saying with another word inplace of "bloke" at the bar
[09:24] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:24] <tsmithe> hehe
[09:24] <imbrandon> was totaly hilliarious though
[09:26] <nixternal> If you use Kubuntu on a machine that is powered by diesel fuel, you might be a redneck
[09:26] <imbrandon> heh
[09:26] <imbrandon> out of skittles and mt dew, back in a bit, time to hit 7-11
[09:26] <LaserJock> nixternal: what if the diesel fuel just powers the generator behind the outhouse?
[09:27] <imbrandon> to warm the seat
[09:27] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:27] <nixternal> then you are po' white trash
[09:27] <LaserJock> heh
[09:27] <tonyyarusso> you still have a 7-11?
[09:27] <LaserJock> still?
[09:27] <imbrandon> hey i grew up po' white trash ( still ahve some tendancies now and then hehe )
[09:27] <nixternal> our courthouse rocks. They have all Linux servers, and all of their kiosks are Ubuntu
[09:27] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, still ?
[09:28] <tonyyarusso> I haven't seen one of those for a long time
[09:28] <LaserJock> they are all over the place here
[09:28] <nixternal> I plugged one in a month or so back while I was there, turned away for a minute and heard the familiar Ubuntu startup sound
[09:28] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, there is one on like every corner here, been ther for years
[09:28] <LaserJock> the poor petty robbers would have nothing to knock over if it wasn't for 7-11s
[09:28] <imbrandon> and in reno too, and in texas , and lots of places
[09:28] <tonyyarusso> We have SuperAmerica, but not much 7-11
[09:28] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, where
[09:28] <nixternal> now I am going to give a talk to the local chamber of commerce on how Free Software can help them build the infrastructure they need
[09:29] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: Minnesota
[09:29] <imbrandon> is there even gas staions there? /me stops
[09:29] <imbrandon> heh
[09:29] <ajmitch> imbrandon: you, a redneck?
[09:29] <nixternal> heh, the Super Mall
[09:29] <imbrandon> ajmitch,  nah never
[09:29] <imbrandon> heh
[09:30] <imbrandon> bah i need to upgrade my wordpress tonight
[09:30] <imbrandon> fun fun fun
[09:30] <tonyyarusso> We also have a lot of BPs, Holiday, Phillips 66, Conoco, Mobil
[09:30] <imbrandon> maybe i should just write a cms in python 
[09:30] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: Yeah, me too.  I had just finished the 2.1.1 when I heard about 2.1.2
[09:30] <imbrandon> to use myself
[09:31] <imbrandon> anyhow cant go without dew for long, brb
[09:37] <theCore> and xchat lefts the building ... 
[09:38] <theCore> I am getting good at crashing programs
[09:38] <\sh> re
[09:40] <ajmitch> hi \sh 
[09:41] <ajmitch> uploaded wine yet?
[09:41] <theCore> jdong: still here?
[09:41] <jdong> theCore: something like that :D
[09:41] <ajmitch> imbrandon: dunno :)
[09:41] <jdong> imbrandon: I just stocked up on 12 2-liters of Dew, so anytime you happen to be around Cambridge MA.....
[09:42] <LaserJock> wahoo, I love it when the boss has to blow grant money ... today
[09:42] <ajmitch> jdong: it'd be gone in about 10 minutes
[09:42] <theCore> jdong: I just want to let you know that I got a XChat that disconnects on suspend :)
[09:42] <jdong> is "grant money" a euphemism for the male.... never mind
[09:42] <imbrandon> LaserJock, new iMac ?
[09:42] <tonyyarusso> jdong: You live by Click and Clack?
[09:42] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I went with a mac mini as my recommendataion
[09:42] <imbrandon> LaserJock, rockin
[09:42] <jdong> tonyyarusso: yeah I guess :)
[09:43] <tonyyarusso> cool
[09:43] <LaserJock> so it was a mac mini, Labview, GPIB-USB interface, DAQ interface, and an external 750GB drive for backup
[09:43] <LaserJock> $3000
[09:43] <\sh> ajmitch, approved now?
[09:43] <jdong> Siegel Eggs
[09:43] <ajmitch> \sh: yeah
[09:44] <jdong> http://tinyurl.com/ysh3up
[09:44] <jdong> there it is
[09:44] <jdong> my wonderful view
[09:44] <jdong> of an egg factory.
[09:46] <Lutin> if someone around has a sparc|ia64 box with a pbuilder on it, could you please try to build the files in http://dunnewind.net/~lutin/mlt ? that'd be great :)
[09:48] <Lutin> ajmitch: doesn't matter if it's slow :)
[09:48] <ajmitch> oh it does matter
[09:48] <\sh> ajmitch, ah cool
[09:48] <ajmitch> it may take a few hours :)
[09:48] <\sh> ajmitch, I wonder....do you have problems using deboostrap right now?
[09:48] <\sh> W: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz was corrupt
[09:48] <ajmitch> \sh: no idea, haven't used it lately
[09:49] <ajmitch> that looks more like a proxy issue
[09:49] <Lutin> ajmitch: I'm not in a hurry ;)
[09:49] <\sh> hmm....
[09:49] <\sh> I don't use a proxy :)
[09:50] <\sh> apt-get update works like a charm
[09:50] <\sh> e
[09:51] <\sh> hmmm..or is it umts...
[09:51] <\sh> no..then apt-get update should also fail
[09:54] <imbrandon> \sh i just used it a few hours ago building the ppc machine
[09:54] <imbrandon> but i used my own mirror
[09:54] <imbrandon> Lutin, are you a MOTU yet?
[09:55] <imbrandon> ahh never mind, ajmitch is gonna try it
[09:55] <ajmitch> if I can reach the server with the source
[09:55] <cbx33> w00t
[09:55] <cbx33> c++ is getting easier
[09:56] <imbrandon> ajmitch, you should be able to dget it from the server
[09:56] <imbrandon> i can get to it from here
[09:56] <ajmitch> yeah, I can't get it from work, I just installed links so that I could see the dir contents :)
[09:57] <imbrandon> http://dunnewind.net/~lutin/mlt/mlt_0.2.2+cvs20070213-0ubuntu2.dsc
[09:57] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:57] <\sh> archive.ubuntu.com is somewhat broken 
[09:57] <imbrandon> \sh, try it from mirror.imbrandon.com if you wish
[09:58] <imbrandon> it syncs every 2 hours so it might be ok from there
[09:59] <\sh> imbrandon, de.archive worls
[09:59] <\sh> works even
[09:59] <imbrandon> ;)
[10:08] <imbrandon> someone wanna buy me this ? http://cgi.ebay.com/iMac-G5-20-Intel-Core-Duo-2-0GHZ-1-5GB-RAM-250GB-HD_W0QQitemZ110097053601QQihZ001QQcategoryZ140066QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
[10:08] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:08] <\sh> ajmitch, I'll upload wine tomorrow morning when I'm in the office...with umts it's been too many MB ;)
[10:09] <zul> imbrandon: sure...just give me the money and you might or might not get it
[10:09] <ajmitch> \sh: heh, are you on the train now or something? :)
[10:10] <LaserJock> imbrandon: a G5 intel iMac? :-)
[10:10] <ajmitch> imbrandon: pbuilder on sparky is still trying to parse the build deps ;)
[10:11] <imbrandon> wow hehe
[10:11] <imbrandon> i might have to look for a faster sparc on ebay hehe
[10:11] <ajmitch> T2000!
[10:11] <imbrandon> ;)
[10:11] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: How old is this SPARC?
[10:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: how much does one of those cost?
[10:11] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, one siretart donated, ultra IIi iirc
[10:12] <ajmitch> LaserJock: depends which one you get, might be upwards of $15K
[10:12] <LaserJock> not too bad I guess
[10:12] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, http://www.ubuntuwire.com/build-network/sparky.html
[10:12] <\sh> ajmitch, hotel :)
[10:12] <imbrandon> i need to update the one for aurora, i just added ram
[10:13] <Fujitsu> Let's get Canonical to buy us one of them, ajmitch :P
[10:13] <ajmitch> sure
[10:13] <Fujitsu> description: 	Ethernet interface
[10:13] <Fujitsu> product: 	Happy Meal
[10:13] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, heh we tried that at UDS, they are puyshing the ppa on LP
[10:13] <Fujitsu> What kind of product name is `Happy Meal'?
[10:14] <ajmitch> heh
[10:14] <ajmitch> one with a long history
[10:14] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: a very USA one
[10:14] <imbrandon> long long history, sun hardware has always had funny names
[10:14] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I see one T2000 for $85K USD
[10:14] <ajmitch> 64GB RAM, 8-core CPU
[10:14] <imbrandon> nice
[10:15] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yikes
[10:15] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Sounds powerful.
[10:15] <ajmitch> any MOTU with some spare cash for one of those?
[10:15] <LaserJock> maybe we could get Mark to spring for one for us?
[10:15] <imbrandon> lol
[10:15] <ajmitch> canonical should be able to pick up a low end one cheaply
[10:15] <Fujitsu> He's probably got a few hiding in the datacentre already.
[10:15] <ajmitch> we even have some sun contacts hiding out on irc :)
[10:16] <imbrandon> ohh yea i took some picture of the rack at the DC that has the buildd's in it ( with ubuntu stickers ) hehe i should upload them
[10:17] <sacater> feisty is coming out in april, anyone got a more precise date?
[10:17] <Fujitsu> sacater: 27th, I believe.
[10:17] <LaserJock> sacater: check out the release schedule
[10:17] <sacater> Fujitsu: thanks
[10:17] <LaserJock> sacater: wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
[10:17] <sacater> LaserJock: thanks
[10:18] <Fujitsu> Oh, 27th was Edgy...
[10:18] <sacater> its 19th
[10:20] <jdong> ajmitch: I'm concerned at this point that xserver-xgl will not be fixed for the final feisty release.
[10:20] <jdong> there has been no futher progress made towards approving it.
[10:20] <imbrandon> since when? 5 minutes ago ? heh
[10:21] <ajmitch> jdong: I've given my ACK, you can bring it up at the motu meeting if you're concerned
[10:21] <jdong> imbrandon: it's been almost two weeks
[10:22] <jdong> ajmitch: if you can, that'd be great
[10:22] <ajmitch> jdong: I doubt I'll be at the motu meeting, or at least I won't be there for all of it
[10:22] <jdong> and not only the time, but it does not seem like there is much motivation for anyone else to look at it in any fashion
[10:22] <ajmitch> bah
[10:22] <imbrandon> lol
[10:22] <ajmitch> typical windows
[10:22] <ajmitch> https://beta.launchpad.net/~motu-uvf/+assignedbugs
[10:22] <ajmitch> *that* one
[10:23] <ajmitch> I don't care much about the build network :)
[10:23] <ajmitch> so I see that there are 7 unconfirmed UVF exception requests
[10:23] <jdong> @schedule
[10:23] <ajmitch> try in -meeting
[10:24] <LaserJock> --- Schedule @jdong TZ: Nothing to see here ----
[10:24] <LaserJock> I didn't know that package even existed in Universe
[10:25] <ajmitch> you didn't?
[10:25] <imbrandon> thats because 99% of people use aiglx as they should ;)
[10:25] <jdong> LaserJock: lol that explains why the package is almost 1 year old :)
[10:25] <jdong> imbrandon: pfft well not all of us have that luxury
[10:26] <jdong> some of us would like to bake some ATI+AMD employees in a large toaster oven
[10:26] <LaserJock> I thought aiglx worked for more people than XGL
[10:26] <jdong> and start World War III
[10:26] <imbrandon> LaserJock, it does
[10:26] <imbrandon> everyone cept a few ati peeps
[10:26] <jdong> LaserJock: Xgl is for all Radeon R500+ users
[10:26] <jdong> and it's far from "a few" ati peeps.
[10:26] <ajmitch> any modern ATI card, really
[10:26] <jdong> the ATI radeon chipset is by far the most popular on ordinary store shelves
[10:27] <jdong> partially thanks to AMD
[10:27] <\sh> xgl works with fglrx and beryl .. but it's far from being stable
[10:27] <imbrandon> hahaha yea right
[10:27] <imbrandon> jdong, what crack stores you going to?
[10:27] <jdong> \sh: xgl does not work in feisty at all, period.
[10:27] <imbrandon> i NEVER see any ati cards arround
[10:27] <jdong> imbrandon: uhm, you're crazy
[10:27] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I do
[10:27] <ajmitch> common in laptops
[10:27] <jdong> imbrandon: almost all Turions here have ATi Xpress 200m, or mobility radeon
[10:27] <jdong> imbrandon: and a significant portion of higher-end Centrinos have x1600's too
[10:28] <jdong> \sh: that's the whole point of ignored bug 87687
[10:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87687 in xserver-xgl "New git snapshot required for xorg 7.2/feisty" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87687
[10:28] <imbrandon> i just went laptop shopping at walmart no less a week ago and not one had an ati card
[10:28] <jdong> imbrandon: well there's your problem.
[10:28] <imbrandon> and very very veyr few even had amd's
[10:29] <imbrandon> jdong, you said majority, the majority is walmart
[10:29] <jdong> imbrandon: go to Best Buy, Micro Center, CompUSA.....
[10:29] <imbrandon> jdong, i do daily
 jdong, you said majority, the majority is walmart
[10:29] <imbrandon> walmart by far sells more computers int he us than anyone else, look at the numerbs, they even outrank dell etc
[10:29] <imbrandon> anyhow bbiab
[10:30] <LaserJock> well, I see quite about as many ATI as nvidia, more ATI on laptops
[10:30] <LaserJock> but don't a lot of ATI work with aiglx
[10:30] <jdong> LaserJock: 5 year old ones do.
[10:30] <jdong> LaserJock: anything above the X300 don't.
[10:31] <jdong> and heck the X300 era ones work pretty flimsily too
[10:31] <jdong> the integrated Xpress 200 chipset is quite popular too on AMD systems
[10:31] <jdong> sure Nvidia + Intel outnumber ATI's
[10:32] <jdong> but that's not to say ATI does not have a significant GPU-share on retail systems
[10:32] <\sh> well, for me is xgl not an option anyhow....fglrx does have problems with xinerama (at least with feisty somehow) or I'm too stupid to configure it. radeon xorg driver does work in 2d mode with xinerama :)
[10:32] <LaserJock> hmm, I swear I got beryl going on one of my computers
[10:32] <LaserJock> must not have been the imac
[10:32] <Q-FUNK> nice alloy
[10:32] <LaserJock> my laptop has a ATI 7000 IGP
[10:32] <jdong> http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?SubCategory=32&name=Notebooks-Laptops
[10:32] <LaserJock> maybe that was it
[10:33] <jdong> hit Advanced Search on the left
[10:33] <jdong> drop down GPU/VPU
[10:33] <jdong> and that shows a good distribution of the vid card selection Newegg offers
[10:33] <jdong> GMA's are the most common
[10:33] <imbrandon> jdong, nice try, the majority of people dont but from there, you want majority hit the real stores where mom and pop shop
[10:33] <imbrandon> buy*
[10:34] <jdong> imbrandon: when I went laptop shopping 4 months ago ATI was definitely more prominent than nvidia on laptops.
[10:34] <LaserJock> mom and pop probably get a lot of integrated graphics
[10:34] <jdong> LaserJock: yeah.
[10:34] <jdong> LaserJock: GMA950 on the Intel side, X200m on the AMD side.
[10:34] <\sh> well, to be honest...nvidia is more in gamers laptops...like dell xpc series
[10:34] <imbrandon> maybe only if you were set on getting an amd, you dident look overall, intel is by far more prominate , because intel chips are in 99% of those sold by the major chains actualy on the shelves
[10:35] <jdong> \sh: I don't argue with that.
[10:35] <\sh> amd is more in business laptops or soho laptops like toshiba satellite a100 (dual core intel with x1400 ati)
[10:35] <imbrandon> exactly
[10:35] <jdong> imbrandon: I don't know about sales, but at Best Buy the selections of AMD/Intel is split halfway almost
[10:36] <imbrandon> nope, not at most stores, stop looking online and walk into one
[10:36] <jdong> imbrandon: I did look in the store.
[10:36] <imbrandon> thats like saying they have alot of other mp3 players than the ipod, they do online but not in the store
[10:37] <jdong> *sigh*, ok, ATI does not exist, fglrx is not used by mroe than 0.05% of the Ubuntu users
[10:37] <jdong> you're right
[10:37] <LaserJock> lol
[10:37] <jdong> I was thinking of LSD and cocaine.
[10:37] <imbrandon> my point is, if you are shopping as a geek for certain specs then yes you will run accross ati more, if you are every day joe intell chips and graphics are by far far far outnumber the others
[10:37] <LaserJock> there is a significant amount of ATI users
[10:37] <jdong> LaserJock: only geeks buy ATI's.
[10:37] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I really have to disagree
[10:37] <jdong> LaserJock: walmart does not carry ATI's
[10:37] <jdong> LaserJock: hence nobody carries ATI's.
[10:38] <LaserJock> Dell ships a lot of ATI
[10:38] <LaserJock> a lot of laptops have ATI
[10:38] <jdong> LaserJock: but dell does not exist. it's not walmart.
[10:38] <jdong> LaserJock: and also, Dell only sells 1% AMD's, so it's irrelevant.
[10:38] <imbrandon> jdong, you are lucky you are not within 50 miles of me i would fucking kick you square in the smart ass balls
[10:39] <LaserJock> well, I've seen lots of Dell intel machines with ATI graphics
[10:39] <jdong> who spit in his ATI hypertransport bus?
[10:39] <jdong> racial profiling. LaserJock disagred with him too, and he goes after me
[10:40] <\sh> jdong, this morning I just read a dell advertisment and 2 of three laptops have ati on board...and the other one it was a cheap nvidia with 128MB
[10:40] <LaserJock> jdong: that's not needed
[10:40] <jdong> \sh: yeah, the cheap radeon xpresses are too popular for our good
[10:40] <jdong> \sh: the fact of the matter is, on Windows, they are the best performing integrated chipset....
[10:41] <\sh> jdong, yes, but the drivers of ati/amd are, sorry to say, crap and should go to hell...
[10:41] <jdong> \sh: totally agreed.
[10:41] <jdong> \sh: but that doesn't mean we should neglect our users who happen to have these ATI chipsets.
[10:42] <jdong> the fact of the matter is, it's perfectly possible to set up an Xgl+fglrx based compiz desktop that performs just as smoothly/reliably as an AIGLX+GMA950 one.
[10:42] <LaserJock> anyway ...
[10:42] <LaserJock> I seriously doubt they are intentially ignoring the UVF jdong 
[10:43] <jdong> LaserJock: after two weeks of poking, I got one ACK....
[10:43] <\sh> jdong, tbh if amd would put some pressure on it, they would have better drivers...and regarding xgl + beryl / compiz...my a100 is crashing 95% of the time after 5 minutes wobblling and scaling  
[10:43] <LaserJock> jdong: that's not horrible
[10:44] <jdong> \sh: really?
[10:44] <jdong> LaserJock: by the time I get the second it's gonna be some critical freeze date
[10:44] <jdong> and it's all over
[10:44] <jdong> time for everyone to roll out checkinstalled random debs.
[10:44] <\sh> jdong, and the same happens with aixgl and i915 or old ati legacy drivers with xgl and latest beryl svn
[10:44] <jdong> and as soon as feisty+1 opens, they're going to change X packagin, and boom... no backport either.
[10:44] <jdong> yay me.
[10:45] <jdong> \sh: well I'm not sure about what's happening in your case... but I've had stable Xgl+fglrx+compiz since Dapper days
[10:45] <LaserJock> well, as far as I know there isn't a critical freeze date for this
[10:45] <jdong> \sh: right now on Feisty I can reliably suspend and resume over the course of 10 days
[10:45] <LaserJock> they will get to it when they get to it
[10:45] <jdong> and xgl/compiz works.
[10:45] <jdong> LaserJock: release is like 4 weeks away.
[10:45] <ajmitch> maybe the constant nagging chased people off
[10:45] <LaserJock> jdong: so you have probably 3 weeks
[10:46] <jdong> ajmitch: so now you're saying if I looked away from it, magically all the motu-uvf's would have been more likely to handle it??
[10:46] <ajmitch> jdong: I'm saying that I was awfully tempted to ignore the bug
[10:46] <ajmitch> but I thought that wouldn't be fair
[10:46] <jdong> ajmitch: so if I said nothing, you would've been more willing to look at it?
[10:47] <jdong> ajmitch: ^^ that's the reaction I've gotten from most of the others.
[10:47] <ajmitch> as long as you'd assigned it to motu-uvf
[10:47] <\sh> I would like to see our xorg maintainer to have a look with a qualified report 
[10:47] <ajmitch> since subscribed bugs are on another page in LP
[10:47] <theCore> I wonder if the upgrade from edgy/dapper to feisty will be smooth... 
[10:48] <theCore> there seems an awful number of people using things like Automatix and cie
[10:48] <jdong> theCore: my upgrade took 3 dist-upgrade cycles to do
[10:48] <\sh> theCore, as always...dapper -> edgy -> feisty, or dapper -> next LTS release
[10:48] <jdong> and theCore, recent automatix release (i.e. within Edgy time) don't do anything to bork an upgrade
[10:48] <ajmitch> \sh: xgl has never really been touched much by the X maintainers in ubuntu
[10:48] <ajmitch> \sh: it was originally packaged by mjg59, last touched by me to fix some bugs
[10:48] <jdong> theCore: at least I've hit every single button in Automatix and Automatix2 on a test VM and it upgraded to feisty roughly the same.
[10:49] <theCore> jdong: hopefully, it will be the same for all users
[10:49] <jdong> theCore: I hope so too.
[10:50] <\sh> theCore, this morning edgy to feisty on my t43..without any problems. yesterday on my toshiba r200 -> edgy to feisty: linux-restricted wasn't updated 
[10:50] <jdong> on my initial upgrade of my laptop, I had dpkg exit with a non-zero exit code
[10:50] <jdong> but a re-run of dist-upgrade went smoothly.
[10:51] <theCore> personally, I had a lot of problems with the upgrade
[10:51] <theCore> but I think these problem have been fixed
[10:51] <jdong> are UVFe's required for kernel components?
[10:51] <jdong> I'd love to ignore bug 82680 too but frankly I don't think it'd be fixed.
[10:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82680 in linux-source-2.6.20 "[feisty]  regression: ti mmc card reader not working (worked flawlessly in edgy)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82680
[10:52] <theCore> jdong: not before the Kernel Freeze, I think
[10:53] <theCore> April 5th
[10:53] <jdong> april 5th...
[10:53] <jdong> ok, I'm going to leave it alone
[10:53] <jdong> and magically it will be fixed by that time.
[10:53] <\sh> well, I'm glad that the nozomi drivers are in 2.6.20-9 ,)
[10:53] <jdong> same with the rest of my hitlist.
[10:54] <\sh> and kppp supports now /dev/nozX devices..
[11:12] <LaserJock> ajmitch: should we add SRU (again) to the MOTU Meeting?
[11:12] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:13] <LaserJock> I just feel like we keep revising it every week
[11:13] <ajmitch> until it works..
[11:14] <LaserJock> I think uploading directly to -updates while keeping -proposed for risky or high-profile uploads would be good
[11:14] <LaserJock> there are so many trivial fixes that it's rediculous to have them sitting there forever
[11:14] <rmjb> form an official testing team
[11:14] <LaserJock> hah
[11:15] <LaserJock> we need more teams for sure :-)
[11:15] <joejaxx> does bzr support acl?
[11:15] <LaserJock> in what way?
[11:16] <joejaxx> things like: set who can view the code, commit changes
[11:16] <LaserJock> joejaxx: well, chmod the dir
[11:18] <jdong> joejaxx: if you use bzr+ssh:// or sftp:// transport and the underlying FS supports ACLs, and the admin set ACL's, then sure...
[11:18] <jdong> joejaxx: for committing bzr goes by the permissions system established by the underlying filesystem
[11:18] <jdong> joejaxx: for public http branching the situation is a bit different.... .htaccess kind of procedures may be used
[11:19] <joejaxx> ah ok :)
[11:19] <joejaxx> i was hoping that was the case
[11:22] <\sh> jdong, no change...compiz doesn't work and with beryl emerald I don't see any text when I type
[11:22] <jdong> \sh: feisty or edgy?
[11:22] <\sh> jdong, feisty
[11:23] <jdong> \sh: Xgl?
[11:23] <jdong> AIGLX?
[11:23] <\sh> aixgl with radeon driver
[11:23] <jdong> hmm
[11:24] <\sh> how do I load compiz manually ? compiz --replace?
[11:24] <jdong> compiz --replace gconf
[11:32] <LaserJock> added a couple items to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[11:32] <LaserJock> please change/add stuff
[11:34] <\sh> hmm....
[11:34] <\sh> on gnome-terminal with compiz == no text
[11:38] <Toadstool> hi everybody!
[11:38] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[11:39] <Toadstool> hey bddebian 
[11:40] <\sh> ah with latest beryl it works like a charm
[11:40] <\sh> e
[11:44] <jdong> \sh: cool :)
[11:45] <rmjb> "all php4 packages are to be removed" so if there's an unmet dep for one of these packages ignore it?
[11:46] <theCore> \sh: that's weird, gnome-terminal works fine under Compiz on my machine
[11:47] <\sh> theCore, beryl works now :)
[11:47] <\sh> deb http://download.tuxfamily.org/3v1deb edgy beryl-svn
[11:47] <\sh>  with this repos
[11:47] <theCore> ah
[11:47] <bddebian> Later gang
[11:47] <theCore> see ya bddebian
[11:47] <rmjb> later bddebian
[11:47] <LaserJock> rmjb: well, we'd like to get them fixed
[11:47] <LaserJock> cya bddebian 
[11:48] <theCore> \sh: beryl = distraction (for me)
[11:48] <\sh> I just like this mac os x style windowpicker ;)
[11:48] <rmjb> LaserJock: well... it depends on other php4 packages that I assumed were already removed....
[11:49] <LaserJock> rmjb: so it either needs to be fixed to work with PHP5 or removed, I think