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[i=root@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Pien [n=novUgrh5@h-68-164-91-167.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Pien is now known as PienLoKe === PienLoKe [n=novUgrh5@h-68-164-91-167.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["#ubuntu] === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ZhongHan [n=chatzill@bb121-6-206-96.singnet.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:01] @schedule Shanghai [08:01] Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 07 Mar 02:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Mar 04:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 09 Mar 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 18:00: LoCo Team | 13 Mar 02:00: Derivative Team [08:01] @schedule New_York [08:01] Schedule for America/New_York: 06 Mar 13:00: Mozilla Team 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#ubuntu-meeting ["Bye!"] === pipedrea1 [n=pipedrea@musselcracker.aims.ac.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d54C68D0D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pipedream [n=pipedrea@musselcracker.aims.ac.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === yharrow [n=sysadmin@h-68-164-34-22.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [i=root@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === afflux [i=discoflu@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x6E18D3C4] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lionel [n=lionel@ip-61.net-82-216-103.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:00] @schedule sydney [12:00] Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 07 Mar 05:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Mar 07:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 23:00: Edubuntu | 09 Mar 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 21:00: LoCo Team | 13 Mar 05:00: Derivative Team [12:08] @schedule zurich [12:08] Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 11:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 19:00: Derivative Team === Hobbsee wont make that MOTU meeting. oh well. === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === daviey [n=dave1111@unaffiliated/daviey] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:33] @schedule london [12:33] Schedule for Europe/London: 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jeang [n=jeang@196.209.157.27] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jeang 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ScottK [n=ScottK@static-72-81-252-22.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lariamat [n=qnull@p54BC9C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bipolar [n=bflong@146.145.26.91] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Mozilla Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team === dfarning [n=dfarning@72-160-220-159.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:58] are we ready? and who is chairing? [06:59] im ready [06:59] for once [06:59] I thought alex was [07:00] he won't be back until 18.30 [07:00] me too [07:00] ready [07:00] Have an agenda link handy? [07:00] Admiral_Chicago: what to chair? [07:00] tonyyarusso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings [07:01] gnomefreak: no thank you, i have to be in and out due to school reponsibilities [07:02] gnomefreak, you are the one with experience;) [07:02] meh? [07:02] thanks but im in middle of something atm if someone wants to start [07:02] dfarning: your up first anyway iirc [07:02] Okay ill chair [07:02] ty AlexLatchford [07:02] ty [07:03] dfarning: Approve MozillaTeam/Governance [07:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Governance [07:03] btw we dont have council page so i changed it [07:03] Wanted to formally approve this [07:03] but i see you found out :) [07:03] ty [07:04] Personally I have no problems with the Council at the moment [07:04] the document as it stands is great [07:04] +1 [07:04] Maybe the whole 2 weeks meeting should be changed to monthly [07:04] oh crap [07:04] monthly is better i guess [07:05] ok things were busy busy last month;) [07:05] 1 per month [07:05] +1 [07:05] well we can call one if we need one in between [07:05] +1 unless needed otherwise [07:05] +1 [07:05] who is on the Council so we know? [07:05] nominate asac, john, alex, and freddy [07:05] I nominate dfarning [07:06] do we need CC approval? [07:06] i would nominate hilario [07:06] don't know [07:06] talk to johno we are ok [07:06] err i nominate hilario as well [07:06] no we wouldnt really [07:06] talked [07:06] very clear we are under cc [07:06] correct [07:06] hmm okay [07:07] we need to decide on couuncil since [07:07] ?? [07:07] wow wtf was that [07:07] So to be clear, the council would take effect immedietly? [07:08] and last until feisty+1 came out? [07:08] yes until feisty comes out in a couple of wee [07:08] Admiral_Chicago: not as of now with new nominations [07:08] erm, well we have nominations for dfarning, AlexLatchford, gnomefreak, Admiral_Chicago, asac and hjmf [07:08] I fine with that [07:09] cool, anyone know if hjmf has a problem with this? [07:09] ditto [07:09] thats fine. has anyone checked with hjmf? [07:09] as I dont believe he is here [07:09] he left a little while ago [07:09] he is pretty busy with school [07:09] hes afk. [07:09] from what i recalll [07:09] aha okay, ewll we can include him and if his status changes we can rethink [07:09] +1 on all candidates [07:09] +1 [07:10] i say we finish that up on ML [07:10] +1 (though a pretty large group imo) :) [07:10] +1 [07:10] ok finish on ML [07:10] okay, dfarning can you make a new LP.net team and add the various members? [07:11] yes [07:11] if i remember i will send out a post to list [07:11] okay, thanks john [07:11] yw [07:11] Next: Approve MozillaTeam/Membership [07:11] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Membership [07:11] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Membership [07:12] I would like to postpone until i talk more with jono [07:12] new person friendly vs QA is hard;( [07:12] yeah you have a point there [07:13] agreed dfarning you gonna handle talking to jono? [07:13] I will do so [07:13] i may have something else for you to run by him if i cant find elkbuntu [07:13] ok [07:13] okay [07:13] next? [07:14] -1 on Membership Wiki, postpone to next meeting [07:14] you again david [07:14] Approve MozillaTeam/Upstream [07:14] -1 [07:14] err membership [07:14] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Upstream [07:14] lol Freddy [07:15] postpone [07:15] ups [07:15] late :) [07:15] why -1? [07:15] about membership ;) [07:15] asac, what are your thoughts? === popey [n=alan@ubuntu/member/popey] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:16] im happy with postponing it until david speaks with jono [07:16] the document is good, but i don't know if we need a official policy for that [07:17] I would like to set a standard of behavior [07:17] that other can depend on [07:17] others [07:17] so they know we will not send crap/spam [07:17] ah ok === gnomefreak wants to stop what has happned the past week with triaging [07:18] exactly;( [07:18] patches should only be pushed upstream as well as bugs [07:18] after being reviewed by someone experienced imo [07:18] if that is in that document then its fine [07:18] its important not to stress upstream relationship ... as you said with "crap/spam" [07:19] Personally I feel the document needs a little more work before it should be approved [07:19] i'll add that [07:19] AlexLatchford, what other work? [07:19] lets get up with jono see what he says than add it to agenda after wiki is fixed in jonos idea of it [07:19] Saying who to contact to confirm patches, I am on the team but do not know much about Patches [07:20] for instance.. [07:20] i think we need to be more visible so people don't do work outside of our policies [07:20] asac: would be the contact maybe david also? [07:20] Admiral_Chicago: True === gnomefreak not good with patches but i can apply them for testing [07:21] for example, having to go and undo peoples tagging after we set a tag library [07:21] I have been trying to be an admin contact letting you guys do all the tech stuff [07:21] dfarning: tagging closing remarking ect... [07:21] gnomefreak: contact for upstream bug review? [07:22] ok with this in mind i'll rewrite and ask for more feed back on ML [07:22] +1 on dfarning's suggestion [07:22] remarking example = after full crash report is attached people are "please install -dbg and run backtrace" or " not enough info closing..." [07:22] ok .... action: improve upstream directions [07:23] +1 to a rewrite as well [07:23] Yes, it still needs a bit more discussion in my eyes [07:23] on the mailing list [07:23] next? [07:23] Admiral_Chicago: about the visibility [07:23] there is a general debuggingprocedures page [07:23] which links to our policy [07:23] Next: Extension / Theme policy - Admiral_Chicago [07:24] doesn't mean people read it [07:24] bug triagers should read that page from time to time ... though they probably don't do [07:24] i mean in the community [07:24] yes [07:24] maybe we can link it in from the Bugsquad page.. [07:24] they dont they are using -bugs responces [07:24] i am working on convincing lp folks for adding special hints for packages [07:24] well i put this agenda item to be clear about which themes / extensions we can support [07:25] like: bugs for this package are processed following procedures on http://xxx [07:25] so far only what we have afaik [07:25] as I know of, we have a handful of themes and extensions in the repositories [07:26] I did have enough tech knowledge to determine why we were packaging certain extensions [07:26] did not [07:26] asac: should we get a list and go one by one down list to see what ones would be worth adding for feisty+1 (somehow i doubt they will end up in feisty) [07:26] please lets not add more to feisty [07:26] others that crash [07:26] so i suggest we build a library of supported packages [07:26] feisty is pretty late [07:26] asac: thats why i said feisty+1 :) [07:26] sorry :) [07:26] sure [07:27] anyway, i guess there are only a few extensions are valid candidates [07:27] Well, which extensions are we going to include, how do we decide? [07:27] once we get a valid bug report, those would have to be pushed upstream [07:27] Admiral_Chicago: get a list of what you are thinking we support and add it to agenda for future meeting (IMHO) i have one nad asac had one we were looking into [07:27] I am thinking remove unless there is a good reason to keep [07:28] yes ... good reason: extension is really popular; ubuntu specific; or uses native component [07:28] asac, +1 [07:28] +1 for me [07:28] dfarning: i would rather in respect to community add some extensions/themes but only ones that can erally provide help and are throughly checked out [07:28] native components are really rare ... so there should be only a handful in the end [07:28] not becaue a MOTU thinks it would be a good place to start packaging [07:28] ;( [07:29] dfarning: imo we cannot do much, but deny that we will take care for them [07:29] colorzilla == popular but imho crap since it is cause of alot of crashes [07:29] so what action are we taking? [07:29] if they add such packages, packagers have to take care on bug triage alone [07:29] could we assign them back to the packager? [07:29] colorzilla qualifies by "native component" which is why it crashes :) [07:29] ah [07:29] however colorzilla has not been released under free license [07:30] so not yet a valid candidate [07:30] so what action are we taking? [07:30] I'll post something to MOTU ML for consideration [07:30] Admiral_Chicago: yes you can assign back to packager [07:30] are we going to make a list of extensions that are working, etc.. [07:30] no i mean, let them deal with the bug reports [07:30] don't know ... document which extensions qualify for mozilla team support [07:30] mine has but i dont know where to even think about beginning on that one since i couldnt find the files we were looking for and i think i have since made it go away [07:30] e.g. by guidelines i posted above [07:30] AlexLatchford: i was hoping we could get a list of extensions we support. [07:31] would can do the list [07:31] Admiral_Chicago: i would say start there [07:31] Admiral_Chicago: could you flesh out a wiki page and then post it to the ML for discussion? [07:31] AlexLatchford: can do chief [07:31] Admiral_Chicago: i think we should decide if request pops up ... we can of course screen what is currently in archive and say "yes or no" [07:31] ta [07:31] maybe on your rounds in irc look for what people like and use but try not to ask in support channels [07:32] yes [07:32] well look for bug reports, only package extensions that do not work without it [07:32] im guessing we have a bit of time on that but would be good to have around feisty's release [07:32] i'll get a wiki going, send it to the ML, maybe post on the planet about it [07:32] k [07:32] good idea [07:32] k [07:32] Admiral_Chicago, +1 [07:33] Next: Greasemonkey script maintainer wanted - asac [07:33] lol [07:33] its just a request [07:33] if someone knows .js [07:33] and wants to improve life for us all :) [07:33] meh fair enough [07:33] +1 for asac as maintainer ;) j/k [07:33] thought I would link it [07:33] otherwise, i will try to do at some point [07:33] lol [07:33] i know a little java but not too much [07:33] i havent looked at it yet [07:33] Admiral_Chicago: its JS not so much java [07:33] its just javascript [07:33] like you do in html pages [07:33] JS is easier [07:34] eh. [07:34] maybe lets open a task page :) ... to add such jobs that still have no owner :) [07:34] i remember bits and peices from classes i took in java. we had to work with some JS [07:34] asac: +1 [07:34] asac: +1 [07:34] got one on /Roadmap [07:34] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Roadmap [07:35] add it to the Roadmap Tasks [07:35] btw everyone stay i have something to ask at end of meeting :) [07:35] will do gnomefreak [07:35] okay, next? [07:35] next? [07:35] ok maybe make another table for tasks that need a maintainer? [07:35] wait, we skipped AlexLatchford 's big [07:35] i think we are through [07:35] bug* [07:35] oh [07:35] Next: Dapper / Fx 2.0 policy [WWW] Bug 89704 - Admiral_Chicago [07:35] Malone bug 89704 in firefox "No backport of Firefox 2.o to Dapper" [Undecided,Needs info] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89704 [07:36] Admiral_Chicago: yeah we are not going in order, my points are not High on the list [07:36] thats stated in bug [07:36] asac: maybe you can say something about out 1.5 policy [07:36] there isnt much we can do with it [07:36] our* [07:36] Asac can you write a faq on why we can build 2.0 on dapper [07:36] Yes I read the response from cjwatson [07:36] ah [07:36] cann't [07:36] look at the bug [07:36] dfarning: the upgrade page shouyld be fine for htat [07:36] its already done [07:36] that [07:36] we posted official wiki page [07:37] that states how we approach dapper long term security [07:37] where, I missed that;( [07:37] see comment from colin [07:37] looking now [07:37] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxSupport [07:37] the Beta LP page is slower than molasses [07:37] yes thats the content [07:38] Admiral_Chicago: yes i know but i think because everyone went looking at it [07:38] reading [07:38] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/FAQ [07:38] have added this for now [07:38] good [07:39] So this issue is sorted... [07:39] alright [07:39] sound good [07:39] should be ... official statement exists [07:39] Next: Accessibility testing and issues, where we can help... [07:39] e.g. canonical statement [07:39] gnomefreak: no, i think in general [07:39] This is more of a 'Be Aware' than a discussion point [07:40] the beta page is just slow... [07:40] Admiral_Chicago: its not slow for me anymore [07:40] maybe its my network, i'll test at home === asac agrees that beta is slow [07:40] agreed in most cases is [07:40] moving on? [07:40] Next: Accessibility testing and issues, where we can help... [07:40] This is more of a 'Be Aware' than a discussion point [07:40] i have no idea about accessibility [07:41] me neither;( [07:41] i don't like this [07:41] Basically the Accessibility Team has been working hard on Orca in Firefox to make sure it actually works [07:41] me neither to both comments [07:41] but someone who knows should setup some introduction on something [07:41] I'll look into in [07:41] e.g. what tools are used for what [07:41] etc. [07:41] well Orca is the main program [07:41] currently they are implementing colour filters for the colour blind I believe [07:41] AlexLatchford: is it orcas issues or ff? [07:41] I'll ask the ocra guy for a introduction to the issues [07:41] afaik, orca has a lot of problems building [07:41] Well it is Orca issues that will probably be reported to Firefox [07:42] if its a firefox specific issue, someone who knows should probably come up with some details [07:42] IMHO orca should be filed against orca [07:42] Well, this is what we are trying to discover, we need to work closely with them as sometimes it is their bug and sometimes it is ours [07:43] I'll start the discussion [07:43] sure ... they should just join us :) ... at least from time to time [07:43] but if you see a bug that you believe is Accessibility related, say if it only occuring with Orca enabled [07:43] yeah, i will invite Henrik to the next meeting [07:43] he was at our last one iirc. [07:43] ..then tag it 'Accessibility' and also subscribe the Accessibility Team to the bug [07:43] haven't seen any ... maybe orca people can do us a favor and search our bts for orca issues? [07:43] Admiral_Chicago: yes he was [07:44] my point being we have more than enough bugs to spread out to 35 teams and still not be fixed by end of year why add more if its not related to fx or tb [07:44] gnomefreak: this is what I am saying, we need to reassign it when it is an issue.. [07:44] yes ... if its not related, its not our problem [07:44] reassign [07:44] as we cannot fix it [07:45] it is more of a be aware of this problem [07:45] than what we need to do [07:45] ok :) [07:45] AlexLatchford: you have the link to them as tagged still on the tags wiki right? [07:45] Believe so [07:45] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Tags [07:45] dfarning: who are you planning on talking to? [07:46] btw ther eis only 1 [07:46] Well I have emailed the Accessibility list [07:46] who ever know anything about accessability:) [07:46] and they are kind of aware of the problem, the response I got back was a little quiet [07:46] lol dfarning [07:46] ok who has free time this week [07:46] ill investigate this more [07:46] lets kill all birds ;) with this [07:46] as I started it [07:47] ubutnu accessability, firefox accessibilty, ... [07:47] Okay.. moving on? [07:47] asac: any patches/testing need to be done this week? [07:47] AlexLatchford: one sec please [07:47] okay === gnomefreak thinking outloud [07:48] did the apport patch make it? [07:48] gnomefreak: not yet :) [07:48] ^^ about patches/testing that needs to be done [07:48] asac: ok i need someone else with me on bug triaging this week. start at one end and work your way through tagging them and assigning them [07:49] I have added the testing repository to my sources.list [07:49] s/asac/everyone === dfarning can do 2 hour per day [07:49] it might be a bit tricky to install testing repository versions for the first time [07:49] it seems like we got caught up with other things nad forgot about it [07:49] after that they should automatically upgrade === dfarning wil have a lot of questions [07:49] dfarning: thats fine. [07:49] dfarning: ill be here most of day during week [07:50] okay ... are we through [07:50] ?? [07:50] sounds good [07:50] dfarning: just remember crash report/edgy/coredump please assign to me [07:50] ok [07:50] Next: GUI Consistency. [WWW] Bug 42263 [07:50] Malone bug 42263 in firefox "Toolbar display should be "Icons and text" for consistency" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42263 [07:50] ick still on that one [07:50] meh? === gnomefreak likes the icons without text. [07:51] well there is an option to turn it off [07:51] hover mouse over it and text is there [07:51] agreed, but it is more for consistency [07:51] we may want to postpone this one [07:51] talk of mozilla starting a linux gui group [07:51] Really? [07:52] you can add text fairly easy [07:52] yes postpone it. [07:52] so all distros can work together to improve interface on gtk kde [07:52] gnomefreak: I know, but it is more of a consistency across the desktop [07:52] TB, Nautilus, gEdit all use Text too [07:53] Konqueror doesn't [07:53] *rolls eyes* [07:53] asac: ? [07:54] Admiral_Chicago: doesn't what? [07:54] Personally it wouldn't bother me too much if the change was made [07:54] Riddell: have text and icons [07:54] gnomefreak: it does in KDE 4 [07:54] as default? [07:54] yes [07:54] yes [07:55] well if we are after consistency I really think the change needs to be made, but whether or not we wait until Feisty+1 for it if we need more debate time.. [07:55] we should beablet o change it with very little feedback from mozilla but im opposed to the change personally. it just adds one more thing to slow fx down [07:55] sorry ... have no time ... tel conference [07:56] asac: k [07:56] i meant in 3.5.6. [07:56] ok lets posepone this than wait for asac feedback on it [07:56] ok [07:56] gnomefreak: agreed [07:56] Admiral_Chicago: text is off there [07:56] i know that is one thing that has been worked on [07:56] it should be as simple as a option in rules during ./configure [07:57] but im not positive on that [07:57] just fired up OOo and it doesn't use text [07:57] to be fair, we have to realize we are packaging from MF, it is really up to them [07:57] maybe this is a decision the TechBoard should take [07:57]