[12:25] <Lutin> ajmitch: any news of the sparc build ?
[12:34] <Toadstool> Lutin: what's wrong with this buildd?
[12:36] <Lutin> Toadstool: nothing wrong, I just forgot to disable the x86 asm code for mlt for non-x86 archs, so I want to make sure the fix actually works ):
[12:36] <Lutin> :) rather
[12:42] <jdong> LMAO compiz slurped up a window
[12:42] <jdong> it must've gotten past upper clipping checks
[12:43] <jdong> and got above the title bar on restrict Y-axis mode...
[12:43] <jdong> then it wobbled for a little bit, and got slurped up...
[12:43] <jdong> and now I can't find it... :(
[12:50] <RAOF> jdong: I like getting wobbly confused about what a window should snap to.
[12:50] <RAOF> jdong: Then you can watch it osscilate between different positions :)
[12:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: it is a hard decision :(
[12:54] <crimsun> joejaxx: why?
[12:55] <crimsun> it has inertia; you shouldn't be concerned about existing users but potential users.
[12:56] <joejaxx> yeah
[12:56] <joejaxx> i just hope a move from the fluxbuntu name will not start another bad stigma
[12:57] <LaserJock> what's do you want to call it?
[12:57] <LaserJock> s/'s//
[12:57] <joejaxx> i do not know something that has nothing to do with the curent name
[12:58] <joejaxx> because there is that insertwindowmanagerherebuntu with it
[12:58] <joejaxx> so everyone thinks it is about fluxbox
[12:59] <joejaxx> too bad there was already the ubuntu lite project i would have probably called it that when i started it
[03:00] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:00] <ajmitch> hello
[03:01] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[03:08] <bddebian> Damn, another mentor e-mail.  Like I can mentor anyone :-(
[03:17] <jdong> bddebian: learn me, oh great one :D
[03:18] <bddebian> hah, yeah right
[03:18] <ajmitch> bddebian: not bad, I've never managed to get an email about mentoring yet
[03:19] <bddebian> ajmitch: I've gotten several but rarely hear back :-(
[03:19] <ajmitch> jdong: probably a wise choice
[03:19] <bddebian> jdong: See you are already smarter than me, I would have said it ;-P
[03:20] <jdong> ajmitch: You know I love you deep down inside.
[03:21] <ajmitch> I'm sure you do, very deep
[03:22] <ajmitch> saying that you're not saying something isn't really helping
[03:23] <jdong> oh come on it was not going to be anything mean
[03:23] <jdong> just.... not appropriate humor for this channel.
[03:24] <ajmitch> s/for this channel//
[03:24] <jdong> pfft there's a time and a place for that's what she said jokes
[03:24] <jdong> like.... The Office
[03:25] <jdong> or when my math teacher hands back a proof test that says "Stop working on both sides"
[03:25] <jdong> (well... he wasn't too amused at the remark....)
[03:27] <jdong> ajmitch: do you think I have a chance?
[03:27] <ajmitch> at the moment, not much
[03:28] <ajmitch> I struggle to think of what you've contributed that can be measured for motu
[03:28] <jdong> it's on my list of goals somewhere
[03:28] <jdong> just not the immediate future
[03:28] <ajmitch> eg new packages, fixes, etc
[03:28] <ajmitch> I'm sure there are some, I just don't know them
[03:31] <jdong> there's not terribly many, but I've made some contributions in that manner
[03:31] <jdong> without a doubt not enough to be significant on the MOTU radar
[03:31] <bddebian> jdong: Don't worry me, ajmitch wouldn't have me either ;-)
[03:32] <ajmitch> only because your application would be full of how much you suck, don't do anything, etc
[03:32] <ajmitch> tiring reading, really :)
[03:34] <bddebian> You have a point there :-)
[03:35] <jdong> lol
[03:35] <jdong> ajmitch definitely practices the tough love thing
[03:37] <ajmitch> why waste words on being nice?
[03:41] <jdong> I like that way of looking at it :)
[03:41] <ajmitch> so that I can get to the motu meeting
[03:45] <jdong> ajmitch: I got classes and would have a very tough time making it ot the MOTU meeting... you think putting xserver-xgl on the agenda is any good if I don't show up?
[03:46] <ajmitch> depends if the usual motu-uvf people are there
[03:46] <ajmitch> if I'm around, I'll try & remember
[04:45] <joejaxx> hello imbrandon 
[04:45] <imbrandon> heya joejaxx 
[04:46] <joejaxx> how have you been?
[04:51] <imbrandon> good good
[04:51] <imbrandon> busy at times but good
[04:51] <jdong> imbrandon: I'm sorry for being an ass... :(
[04:53] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
[04:54] <imbrandon> heya jdong ajmitch 
[04:54] <imbrandon> jdong, np i just needed a bit to cool off
[05:28] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:28] <ajmitch> hello LaserJock 
[05:28] <LaserJock> hi guys
[06:41] <tonyyarusso> phooey - I don't have a new upstream tarball yet (expected on Friday) and the dev is in bed already
[06:42] <RAOF> For what?  Nvu?
[06:42] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: yes
[06:42] <RAOF> :(
[06:44] <RAOF> That's why I like being upstream.  No pesky tarballs :)
[08:34] <siretart> morning folks
[08:36] <ajmitch> hi siretart 
[08:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:50] <ajmitch> hi
[08:51] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[08:59] <AstralJava> Morning dholbach.
[08:59] <dholbach> hi AstralJava
[09:37] <\sh> moins
[09:38] <ajmitch> hi \sh 
[09:38] <\sh> wine will be uploaded in a few.
[09:55] <\sh> wine uploaded
[10:05] <Lutin> hello
[10:10] <ajmitch> dholbach: we seem to have got through most of the uvf requests in the queue except xserver-xgl
[10:10] <dholbach> ajmitch: i know
[10:10] <ajmitch> oh, and glom :)
[10:11] <ajmitch> glom looks fairly ok
[10:13] <dholbach> :-D
[10:17] <Lutin> ajmitch: was the sparc build of mlt successful ?
[10:18] <ajmitch> Lutin: eventually
[10:22] <Lutin> ajmitch: cool, thanks :)
[10:26] <Lutin> ajmitch: could you upload the debdiff please ? it's at http://dunnewind.net/~lutin/code/mlt_0.2.2+cvs20070213-0ubuntu2.debdiff :)
[10:32] <TheMuso> Hey all BTW.
[10:35] <ajmitch> hi TheMuso 
[10:35] <ajmitch> Lutin: I'll take a look
[10:36] <Lutin> ajmitch: thanks :)
[11:09] <poningru> how do I report a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-applets/+filebug
[11:09] <poningru> err https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-applets
[11:09] <poningru> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=415242
[11:09] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 415242 in gweather "Hazardous weather alerts" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]  
[11:09] <poningru> wanna work on that
[11:09] <poningru> anyone?
[11:35] <crimsun> sweet, just closed nine bugs.
[11:38] <crimsun> ok, bed time for an hour.
[11:38] <dholbach> crimsun: good night
[11:43] <GNUro> 'lo!
[02:36] <stan1> hello
[03:05] <pirast> ajmitch, ping
[03:06] <Hobbsee> pirast: he's asleep
[03:06] <pirast> hobbsee, mhm okay.. thanks
[03:07] <pirast> hobbsee, maybe you can help me?
[03:07] <pirast> too late :-(
[03:09] <jdong> siretart: could I get you to look at the xserver-xgl UVFe?
[03:19] <siretart> bug no?
[03:36] <siretart> jdong: I've looked at it one more time, but I don't think I can decide on that. The changes are way too big for me to have good concience with approving it
[03:38] <dholbach> siretart, slomo_, crimsun, ajmitch: maybe we should point out our concerns/feelings on the bug report and make it a decision
[03:39] <siretart> k
[03:39] <jdong> my argument towards approving it is that the current xserver-xgl package is utterly useless/broken.
[03:39] <jdong> while the new one works fine. I've been running it for the two weeks just fine.
[03:40] <jdong> if we ship a broken Xgl, it's going to cause total confusion by everyone attempting to use xserver-xgl
[03:40] <jdong> and us not including it officially will simply lead to more illegitimate repositories with various half-baked attempts at updating xserver-xgl.
[03:40] <jdong> the xserver-xgl package does not have any impact on any other package
[03:40] <dholbach> which of the current bugs will it fix?
[03:41] <jdong> dholbach: bug 86841
[03:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86841 in libxrandr "compiz/beryl does not refresh content of windows" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86841
[03:41] <dholbach> there are a couple of them open and nearly all of them unconfirmed/undecided
[03:41] <jdong> basically beryl and compiz will not redraw at all with xserver-xgl in feisty
[03:41] <jdong> making the whole package useless.
[03:42] <jdong> bug 89716 too
[03:42] <dholbach> is it a libxrandr bug or xserver-xgl bug?
[03:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89716 in xserver-xgl "White screen with compiz (xgl and comp with different libGL to compiz?)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89716
[03:42] <jdong> it's a libxrandr ABI change that caused it
[03:42] <jdong> a xserver-xgl bug for Xgl users
[03:43] <jdong> an AIGLX bug (fixed by rebuild/xorg 7.2 upload) for AIGLX'ers
[03:43] <siretart> jdong: I've just commented on the bug
[03:44] <siretart> jdong: is it correct that only fglrx users need xserver-xgl?
[03:44] <jdong> siretart: fglrx and nvidia-legacy
[03:44] <siretart> ah. hmm i see
[03:44] <siretart> so your point is to get the package either removed or updated, right?
[03:44] <jdong> right.
[03:45] <dholbach> don't get me wrong, I appreciate your efforts - but for me looking at the update: I see 1) lots of bugs that look untouched, a 2) HUGE update, 3) no regular updates to the package at all
[03:45] <siretart> honestly, I'm rather for removing, but since we don't have personal package archives or something, this is probabably too harsh...
[03:45] <dholbach> to me it's almost impossible to judge if it will work out or now
[03:46] <dholbach> that's why I didn't comment any further on it
[03:46] <jdong> dholbach: from what your'e saying, it's better to totally remove the package?
[03:46] <jdong> since the long-term maintenance of the package seems bleak?
[03:47] <dholbach> no, of course I'd like better maintenance of it - removal can't be the answer to things like that
[03:47] <siretart> dholbach: that's an interesting question for the motu council, imo: What shall we do with packages, from who we know that they are broken? until now, we rather have let them be broken in releases, which is suboptimal as well :/
[03:47] <dholbach> I just want to clarify why nobody of the five team members answered on it earlier
[03:47] <jdong> ok.
[03:47] <jdong> well, better maintenance will start by making the package work....
[03:47] <jdong> shipping a version of xserver-xgl that just starts and does not ever redraw after starting
[03:47] <jdong> just sounds illogical.
[03:48] <dholbach> of course it does... but maintenance is more than uploading a git snapshot - how willing are you to take care of the fallout of that update and further maintenance?
[03:49] <jdong> speaking for myself, I'd be glad to devote time in making sure Xgl is taken care of
[03:49] <jdong> my 3D desktop addiction depends on Xgl
[03:49] <dholbach> siretart: removal should be the last solution in any case
[03:49] <siretart> dholbach: the point is that there is no one how has time and the ability to backport the fix from the new git snapshot to what we have in feisty. at least in the timeframe to feisty release
[03:49] <jdong> and the only case of fallout is if the package starts deleting random packages everywhere.
[03:50] <jdong> the current package does not work period..... a new one can't possibly get worse.
[03:50] <dholbach> jdong: hu? what about 'usual' bug reports?
[03:50] <siretart> jdong: would you be willing to git bisect and identify the commit which makes xgl happy again?
[03:50] <jdong> siretart: yeah I can, but it's gonna probably be a huge set of changes that port Xgl over to the new Xorg 7.2 and Mesa  API
[03:51] <jdong> dholbach: I'd be glad to sift thru the usual bug reports too if it makes you happy.
[03:51] <dholbach> jdong: you don't do that to make me happy - you do that if you want to *maintain* the package
[03:52] <siretart> jdong: are you bug contact and work regularily on xserver-xgl?
[03:52] <dholbach> and make users happy and keep the package in shape
[03:52] <jdong> ok, I've bugmailed myself to the package. I will triage all xserver-xgl bugs to the best of my ability.
[03:52] <jdong> siretart: I just become bug contact; I didn't before work on xserver-xgl
[03:52] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:52] <dholbach> jdong: I don't want to talk you into it
[03:52] <siretart> huhu bddebian 
[03:52] <bddebian> Hi siretart
[03:52] <jdong> dholbach: if someone more knowledgeable is willing to step up, I'd be cool with that....
[03:52] <dholbach> jdong: siretart sums it up quite well, when he says "To me this is update could mean a totally other set of bugs"
[03:52] <jdong> I am not the world's most confident person in my abilities.
[03:53] <jdong> siretart: what other kind of bugs can be generated?
[03:53] <jdong> I cannot imagine how xgl could get any worse
[03:53] <jdong> it a'ready doesn't draw.
[03:53] <jdong> hmm
[03:54] <siretart> jdong: like, well, not working any more on cards which worked before, or causing dataloss on cards you didn't test before or anything
[03:54] <jdong> siretart: it works on 0 cards right now.
[03:54] <siretart> jdong: how can you be sure?
[03:54] <jdong> siretart: and rendering opengl textures causing data loss? :)
[03:54] <jdong> siretart: because xserver-xgl is compiled against Xorg 7.0.0, does not build against current feisty
[03:55] <jdong> and I've yet to find one person in #beryl or antoher desktop effects community
[03:55] <jdong> that says Feisty xgl works
[03:55] <siretart> jdong: let's make a deal: please triage the existing bugs on xserver-xgl, mark duplicates as dups, and mention fixed bugs in your updated package. 
[03:55] <dholbach> and we should have an announce somewhere
[03:55] <dholbach> that people test it and report back
[03:56] <jdong> siretart: ok, will do.
[03:56] <dholbach> maybe the team around ubuntu-desktop-effects can help with that
[03:56] <jdong> dholbach: heh I think everyone developing Ubuntu has moved on to the AIGLX framework.
[03:56] <siretart> jdong: I'm pretty surprised that an ABI break in mesa/x11 breaks xserver-xgl. if this was true, the package should have been renamed so that all depending packages are forced to be recompiled. in this case, please file a bug about this
[03:57] <jdong> siretart: there's plenty more ABI breaks caused by Xorg 7.2's upgrade
[03:57] <siretart> jdong: but I'm not an xorg guru as well. I'm just pretty surprised
[03:57] <jdong> siretart: for starters , start DrScheme and hit any menu entry
[03:57] <jdong> pow, xlib->xcb assertion failure
[03:57] <jdong> searching xcb in Launchpad reveals a bunch more
[03:58] <siretart> jdong: well, I'd consider this a bug in packaging then. ABI breakage really should be represented in the packaging
[03:58] <siretart> jdong: in xorg/xcb packaging
[03:59] <jdong> ok
[03:59] <jdong> if that's corrected, that just means all incompatible packages would be uninstallable....
[03:59] <siretart> jdong: exactly!
[03:59] <jdong> that's a great solution.
[04:00] <siretart> well, it's not that great, but at least lets us easily identify broken packages
[04:00] <siretart> hi allee!
[04:07] <jdong> *sigh*
[04:08] <AnAnt> Hello, is there a different between Edgy & Feisty in the way keystrokes are dealt with under the virtual console ?
[04:08] <jdong> maybe I do know too much about this xgl stuff
[04:08] <jdong> it's amusing how many bug numbers relating to this stuff I've committed to memory
[04:16] <jdong> siretart / dholbach: ok, these bugs are too overwhelming for me to deal with....
[04:16] <jdong> I'm not an X developer by any means
[04:16] <siretart> jdong: I totally understand your point, and let me assure you, you are not the first who comes up with the same arguments in this discussion. I e.g. remember lucas arguing with ruby very similar
[04:17] <jdong> well there's got to be a better solution for Feisty than shipping a broken version or removing it altogether....
[04:17] <siretart> ergo sum: xgl in ubuntu remains unmaintained. which is sad :(
[04:17] <dholbach> jdong: nobody asks you to fix the bugs
[04:17] <dholbach> jdong: but it helps to ask for more info and feed the information back to upstream
[04:17] <jdong> dholbach: I can't even classify the bugs in any way...
[04:17] <jdong> other than yes they happen, no they don't.
[04:17] <dholbach> ... establish wiki pages with debugging info
[04:18] <dholbach> hmhmhm
[04:18] <dholbach> that's why it's hard to do updates like that :-(
[04:18] <siretart> ton's of 'unconfirmed' bugs looks like tons of bugs nobody did even care to read about them
[04:18] <dholbach> yep
[04:19] <jdong> that's just a byfactor of the nature of Xgl....
[04:19] <jdong> it's an ugly workaround to 3D desktops
[04:19] <siretart> espc. when there are so many bugs with the same bug title
[04:19] <jdong> and it also pushes OpenGL limits on those video cards
[04:19] <jdong> yeah all these crashes with stacktraces/whatnot attached
[04:19] <jdong> they're really hard to validate or classify.
[04:20] <siretart> jdong: if a software is unmaintainable, I fear that I don't see many other options than removing :(
[04:20] <dholbach> stacktraces you can retrace and forward upstream
[04:20] <dholbach> and if you get lots of them you can probably mark lots of them as duplicates
[04:20] <dholbach> but that's work
[04:20] <jdong> I'm not sure if they are duplicates
[04:21] <siretart> dholbach: which is hard if upstream just tells you to try a later version :/ - what would really help here is if launchpad would automatically retrace the .crash files (which is planned, I assume)
[04:21] <dholbach> yes it is
[04:21] <jdong> well... I'd rather see this package removed in this case. It appears pretty unsupported and nobody wants to support it.
[04:21] <dholbach> but it's not hard to run         apport-retrace -su <bug number>              on your box
[04:21] <jdong> and those who show interest in it don't have the knowledge or time to do it
[04:22] <siretart> wow. that looks neat
[04:23] <jdong> maintaining xserver-xgl is such a oxymoron too... all the library paths are different
[04:23] <jdong> depending on your video driver....
[04:23] <jdong> you have to PRELOAD the binary's xlibmesa anyway to get Xgl to work
[04:24] <jdong> IMO this package is best pseudo-supported unofficially by Beryl repositories.
[04:24] <siretart> dholbach: apport-retrace -u seems undcoumented (?!)
[04:24] <dholbach>        -u, --unpack-only
[04:24] <dholbach>               Only unpack the additionally required packages, do not configure
[04:24] <dholbach>               them.  The additional packages are purged again after retracing.
[04:24] <dholbach>               This is particularly useful when running this program in a fake
[04:24] <dholbach>               root   environment,  when  not  every  package  can  be  cleanly
[04:24] <dholbach>               installed completely.
[04:24] <jdong> well, and these bugs don't retrace
[04:24] <jdong> they are before Doomsday
[04:24] <dholbach> apport-retrace 0.63
[04:24] <jdong> any bug before 2/20-ish will not retrace anymore.
[04:24] <PriceChild> jdong, Me and lupine were discussing putting a fixed xserver-xgl onto our repos if it wasn't fixed for feisty.
[04:25] <dholbach> jdong: that's something a maintainer needs to do
[04:25] <jdong> PriceChild: I think it's best to have the whole package moved to feisty.
[04:25] <jdong> err, beryl.
[04:25] <dholbach> jdong: ask for more info - ask people to try to reproduce etc
[04:25] <PriceChild> I'm sure we could accommodate it.
[04:25] <jdong> dholbach: now you're just sending me on an 81*2-click snipe hunt.
[04:25] <jdong> EVERY bug is like this.
[04:26] <jdong> I've just looked through the first 20
[04:26] <dholbach> jdong: what am I?
[04:26] <siretart> dholbach: you seem to have some other apport than me: apport-retrace: error: no such option: -u
[04:26] <dholbach> siretart: <dholbach> apport-retrace 0.63
[04:26] <siretart> oh, I'm still at 0.61 :)
[04:26] <dholbach> he split it into a new package
[04:26] <jdong> dholbach: trying to occupy me with a menial task so that I go away or infinitely get bogged in this.
[04:27] <jdong> going thru 81 bugs and setting NeedsInfo
[04:27] <dholbach> jdong: what?
[04:27] <dholbach> jdong: I said a couple of times, that you don't have to make me happy
[04:27] <jdong> well at this point I there's no option but to remove xserver-xgl.
[04:28] <siretart> it that's the best, then so be it. sad but true
[04:28] <dholbach> jdong: I just said what it takes to maintain software - you can't just update 3 million lines of code and let people just deal with what you did - it's hard to measure progress of such an update if you (or somebody else) didn't look at bugs before
[04:28] <jdong> nobody is willing to maintain it....
[04:28] <dholbach> jdong: I definitely didn't say "go away" or "give you a task"
[04:28] <dholbach> and I didn't mean to
[04:28] <jdong> and making it work and maintaining it seem to conflict in this case.
[04:29] <dholbach> if you look at other uvf bugs, I asked people a couple of times to look at the fallout and bug reports stemming from their updates
[04:29] <jdong> dholbach: sorry. You gave me the <do this> <do that> see? not so easy to do it. No fix.
[04:29] <dholbach> and it's quite natural to do that
[04:29] <jdong> I'm just saying in this case I see no fallout potential
[04:30] <dholbach> No, it's not easy. I agree with you on that.
[04:30] <jdong> other than xgl going on a file-deleting rampage.
[04:30] <jdong> and that is not good enough of a reason as it seems :)
[04:30] <dholbach> Ok... when I talk about "fallout" I mean bug reports which originate from the update.
[04:30] <jdong> so that leaves the only choice to be removing the package.
[04:31] <jdong> dholbach: if every program started with return 0, there would be no bug reports :)
[04:31] <jdong> any bug reports arising from this would simply mean xserver-xgl worked again.
[04:32] <dholbach> ...
[04:33] <jdong> as I said, there is not one example that anyone can come up with as to what can be worse than this package in its current, totally-broken state.
[04:34] <siretart> too bad that we don't have a 'temp. remove package' yet :(
[04:35] <jdong> IMO Xorg 7.2 should not have gone in.
[04:35] <jdong> the fact that it got in after UVF is utterly frustratingly unfair.
[04:36] <jdong> especially since it inhibits fixing several programs that it broke.
[04:36] <jdong> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=xcb+assertion&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[04:37] <jdong> ^^ that's some of the stuff broken by Xorg 7.2
[04:37] <jdong> most of which is fixed by a long stream of upstream changesets that accomodate Xorg 7.2
[04:37] <jdong> which of course are painstakenly hard to backport
[04:38] <jdong> and yay for UVF.
[04:38] <dholbach> can you follow up with that information in the bug report?
[04:39] <jdong> yeah
[04:42] <jdong> anyway, got to get to classes
[04:42] <jdong> I'll see you guys later
[04:42] <dholbach> see you
[05:00] <heinz55> http://www.drogendealer.de/cgi-bin/dd.cgi?z8nBe44s
[05:42] <dholbach> siretart: do you want to put 'removal of packages' up for discussion for the MOTU meeting later?
[05:45] <Toadstool> good morning everybody!
[05:46] <ScottK> Good morning Toadstool.
[05:46] <Toadstool> hi ScottK 
[05:46] <dholbach> ok see you later for the meeting
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> Is there any reason scim would be needed for non-asian languages?  (English and Spanish)
[07:51] <Riddell> where is the upstream version freeze exception process documented?
[07:52] <jdong> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[07:52] <shawarma> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[07:52] <shawarma> *G*
[07:52] <jdong> shawarma: I hereby sue you for IP infringement.
[07:52] <jdong> :)
[07:52] <shawarma> My irssi tells me I beat you to it. :-)
[07:52] <shawarma> You *soooo* slow.
[07:52] <shawarma> :-)
[07:53] <jdong> shawarma: well... I'm on MITNet. So I must have been faster.
[07:53] <jdong> take that.
[07:53] <shawarma> Wow. It's got a built in time machine?
[07:53] <jdong> yes :)
[07:53] <jdong> actually the internet revolves around my laptop.
[07:54] <shawarma> That's a lot of responsibility.
[07:54] <jdong> I know.
[07:54] <tonyyarusso> lol
[07:54] <stgraber> jdong answer was the first one to be show (at least here) :)
[07:54] <jdong> :)
[07:55] <tonyyarusso> I saw jdong first too
[07:55] <tonyyarusso> So, Is there any reason scim would be needed for non-asian languages?  (English and Spanish)
[07:57] <shawarma> stgraber, tonyyarusso: Bah.
[07:57] <shawarma> :-)
[07:57] <stgraber> :)
[07:58] <stgraber> shawarma: by the way, thank you for the fix for openvpn, now it's possible to configure it without using the ALT key to move the settings window.
[07:58] <stgraber> shawarma: just this little "push" thing and I'll be able to avoid the use of my ugly scripts :)
[08:00] <shawarma> stgraber: I'm working on it right now. 
[08:00] <stgraber> good to hear, thank you very much
[08:02] <igor> hi all.. where can I learn about package pre-seed?
[08:03] <stgraber> Reloading internet, will certainly be disconnected ... (but that's a risk to take to have 1 more MB :))
[08:04] <tonyyarusso> igor: apt-get source ubuntu-desktop and look around
[08:04] <igor> tonyyarusso: thankz ;-0
[08:04] <igor> I will give a try
[08:04] <sladen> look around you .... just look, around you
[08:06] <shawarma> stgraber: Any preference about the text next to the checkbox?
[08:06] <stgraber> shawarma: "Pull options from the server" ?
[08:06] <shawarma> stgraber: Alright.
[08:08] <stgraber> shawarma: If you don't have an OpenVPN server configured to use "push", you can simply upload the dsc, source and diff somewhere and I'll pbuild + test it locally
[08:12] <mr_pouit> Does someone have an idea for Bug #85898 ? it fails only on buildd, so I can't really test :/
[08:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85898 in kxgenerator "[feisty]  FTBFS" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85898
[08:14] <ajmitch> morning
[08:15] <geser> mr_pouit: install pkgbinarymangler inside your pbuilder and build the package with it, it contains the pkgtranslationstrip script
[08:15] <mr_pouit> geser: ok, i'll try this, thanks.
[08:16] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:16] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty 
[08:16] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[08:20] <igor> where can I find this binary: germinate-update-metapackage
[08:21] <ajmitch> germinate
[08:21] <igor> ajmitch: thankz
[08:24] <igor> where is the content of this variable "${ubuntu-minimal:Depends} (and others)
[08:25] <geser> igor: have you looked already in debian/rules?
[08:26] <igor> no.
[08:26] <igor> i found
[08:27] <igor> for seed in minimal standard desktop; do package=ubuntu-$$seed; 
[08:27] <igor> ... >> debian/$$package.substvars; (then the substvars are created)
[08:27] <igor> fine ;-)
[08:28] <igor> geser: thank you
[08:28] <igor> very smart indeed.
[08:28] <tonyyarusso> igor: text files in parent dir
[08:29] <igor> tonyyarusso: I found it
[08:29] <igor> {desktop,minima,standard}-{$ARCH}
[08:29] <igor> s/minima/minimal/g
[08:31] <igor> {desktop,minimal,standard}{,-recommends}-{$ARCH} (this fits better ;-)
[08:32] <igor> btw, im also looking for how to feed my debconf with answers (example ntpdate servers, or locales to be generated), there is any documentation explaning how to do that?
[08:33] <tonyyarusso> igor: I ran across some recently - a sec
[08:33] <igor> tonyyarusso: sure. ;-) 
[08:35] <sistpoty> gpocentek: anything you'd like to add to Luka's application? if not, I'll send a mail to TB with our resolution, ok?
[08:37] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm surprised you're up so early ;)
[08:38] <sistpoty> :P
[08:38] <LaserJock> MOTU Meeting in 20min?
[08:39] <tonyyarusso> igor: This page and the various links from it may be useful: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization#head-d2e2ac6138c17dbdea4fdc90935c64eadf6388d7
[08:39] <igor> tonyyarusso: thankz I will read them all ;-)
[08:39] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[08:39] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so they say
[08:39] <LaserJock> my wife got in a bit of a car accident this morning
[08:39] <LaserJock> so I'm not quite at work yet
[08:40] <LaserJock> so I might be a tad late to the meeting
[08:40] <ajmitch> ouch
[08:41] <siretart> huhu sistpoty, hi ajmitch, hey LaserJock! :)
[08:41] <sistpoty> hi TheMuso
[08:41] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[08:41] <sistpoty> hi LaserJock
[08:41] <LaserJock> hi sistpoty and siretart 
[08:41] <ajmitch> siretart, ltns :)
[08:41] <Toadstool> hi *
[08:41] <sistpoty> siretart: /me is just looking at bug #89573
[08:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89573 in pypanel "Pypanel packages does not include the pypanel binary" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89573
[08:42] <sistpoty> siretart: I don't know what to make of the proposed patch there...
[08:42] <siretart> ajmitch: oh, I'm around from time to time, but I'm quite busy with work :/
[08:42] <ajmitch> oh that bug
[08:42] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: ^^
[08:42] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: why do you need to change the python-path in the patch?
[08:43] <siretart> sistpoty: assuming that it fixes the problem, it seems pretty short, no? ;)
[08:44] <sistpoty> siretart: well, I'm not sure *if* it fixes the problem actually... will the binary work then?
[08:44] <siretart> but you're right. it is pretty strange why this one needs some private modules of python-xlib
[08:44] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: it's the only fix I found (it seems that python-support modules dirs aren't in python path on edgy ?)
[08:44] <siretart> I mean they are private for a reason, no?
[08:44] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I fought with python-xlib for a bit to try & get it to show
[08:44] <ajmitch> they're not meant to be private, the bug should be fixed in python-xlib
[08:44] <siretart> mr_pouit: they are, but private modules are, well, private
[08:45] <siretart> ajmitch: okay, but that's another bug then..
[08:45] <sistpoty> ajmitch: yes, I agree that this fix should rather be in python-xlib... 
[08:45] <ajmitch> sistpoty: yep :)
[08:45] <siretart> so if we all guess right, the patch rather works around a bug in python-xlib
[08:45] <mr_pouit> siretart: so it's a bug of python-xlib, not pypanel...
[08:45] <siretart> so do we want to accept this workaround?
[08:45] <ajmitch> it's a bug in python-xlib, fixing that would mean having to rebuild pypanel
[08:46] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: it's both... ideally python-xlib would be fixed first, and pypanel would only be rebuild
[08:46] <sistpoty> siretart: I'm a little bit undecided on this, I guess I'd prefer having python-xlib fixed first, but it's not a strong opinion
[08:46] <siretart> and first we need to find out why it is private in python-xlib after all
[08:48] <LaserJock> ok, I'm heading to work, hopefully I'll be back in 20min or so.
[08:49] <sistpoty> later LaserJock
[08:49] <igor> tonyyarusso: it helped A LOT! Thankz.. amazing file. btw iso linux can read from network, usb or floppy?
[08:50] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok (fixing python-xlib would be a little cleaner than my workaround so). And there are only 2 packages which depends on python-xlib
[08:50] <siretart> puh
[08:50] <siretart> mr_pouit: which is the other one?
[08:50] <sistpoty> xkeysw-config
[08:51] <siretart> hm.
[08:53] <sistpoty> hi dholbach
[08:53] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[08:54] <dholbach> hi sistpoty, hi ajmitch
[08:54] <bddebian> Meeting is when?
[08:54] <dholbach> hi guys
[08:54] <dholbach> 6m
[08:54] <ajmitch> dholbach: so was there some agreement on xgl?
[08:54] <ajmitch> bddebian: RSN
[08:54] <sistpoty> oh, nice... xkeysw-config is broken as well, but first and foremost due to a python2.4 anywhere in the script
[08:54] <bddebian> RSN?
[08:55] <ajmitch> Real Soon Now
[08:55] <dholbach> real soon now
[08:55] <bddebian> Ahh
[08:57] <siretart> sistpoty: wow. se we can fix 3 packages with one SRU :)
[09:00] <ajmitch> sistpoty: pypanel would still need a rebuild
[09:02] <siretart> dholbach: I've ust added the point from this afternoon to the agenda: broken packages (you'll surely remember)
[09:02] <dholbach> siretart: ok
[09:03] <tonyyarusso> igor: I think so, ya
[09:03] <igor> tonyyarusso: if it could read from network and recieve parameters from command line.. will be perfect 4 tests before final compilation. ;-)
[09:35] <bddebian> Am I missing the meeting?  I'm in a meeting at work :(
[09:35] <ajmitch> yes
[09:37] <bddebian> fruck
[09:42] <crimsun> bddebian: yeah, I'm juggling meetings too. Thankfully this other one is about professional certificates. :)
[09:42] <bddebian> :)
[09:44] <tonyyarusso> crimsun: righto
[09:44] <crimsun> tonyyarusso: yeah, my thinking is that the Debian New Maintainers' Guide already does a terrific job. The Ubuntu packaging guide could just use that as the base (more strongly than it does currently) and offer cookbook solutions.
[09:45] <tonyyarusso> crimsun: I can see that, although the Ubuntu PG is a bit friendlier than the Debian one atm, for starting with
[09:46] <crimsun> right, but the UPG can outline the points "most suitable" for new packagers, for instance
[09:46] <crimsun> a feisty+1 job, for sure
[09:48] <tonyyarusso> Even something arranged intended as an appendix to the DNMG as "First time? Some quick simplifications to get you started, then refer back once you get going" would be cool, then the rest cookbook-style maybe
[09:48] <crimsun> I'd say put that at the beginning of the UPG
[09:48] <crimsun> Most textbooks/references have something of the sort
[09:49] <tonyyarusso> Mmhmm
[10:01] <\sh> guys, regarding php4-transition...do we have to remove all php4 binary packages from the php-app/module source packages?
[10:05] <ryanakca> what does "dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address" mean?
[10:06] <Toadstool> ryanakca: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-February/000249.html
[10:07] <Lure> ryanakca: it has to be ubuntu.com afair
[10:08] <ryanakca> shucks...
[10:08] <geser> Lure: anything containing ubuntu should work
[10:08] <LaserJock> argg
[10:08] <LaserJock> did I miss everything
[10:08] <LaserJock> ?
[10:08] <Lure> geser: then kubuntu.org should be fine...
[10:09] <ryanakca> Lure: aha... kk
[10:09] <Lure> ryanakca: did you change Maintainer or just changelog?
[10:09] <geser> ryanakca: Maintainer should contain ubuntu
[10:10] <ryanakca>   Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>             should it be     Kubuntu Core Developers <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>           , since it's amarok?
[10:10] <geser> AFAIK is a more specific address ok
[10:10] <crimsun> \sh: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023313.html is a nice summary of sorts. So get rid of php4-specific stuff or add the alt Deps
[10:11] <ryanakca> Currently it's set to the debian devel, https://launchpad.net/~adeodato/ .
[10:11] <crimsun> ryanakca: set Maintainer to Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
[10:11] <geser> if you change Maintainer put the old one into XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[10:11] <ryanakca> crimsun: kk
[10:14] <\sh> crimsun: ok...so removing php4-* binary packages from debian/control where we have php5-* binary packages
[10:14] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee 
[10:15] <\sh> oh fck...it's 9:14pm UTC...and I'm sitting still in the office
[10:15] <ryanakca> \sh: ouch..
[10:16] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, ryanakca 
[10:16] <\sh> but good for my new FAI server...which looks very nice now, and it's 40% faster installing a machine from now on...
[10:17] <jdong_> god straight Xorg uses a lot of redraw CPU.
[10:18] <jdong_> the day that I admit to Compiz improving performance... oh boy
[10:18] <ajmitch> the day that compiz actually works *properly*
[10:18] <sistpoty> the day my thesis is finished *g*
[10:18] <crimsun> it's a Feature!
[10:18] <bddebian> heh
[10:19] <bddebian> About 10 minutes
[10:20] <Hobbsee> ah right
[10:21] <siretart> \sh: did you already try the latest fai (3.1.7)?
[10:22] <Hobbsee> s
[10:22] <\sh> siretart: nope..I'm sitting on 3.0.x fai...I don't have the time to test other versions...I just needed working yum support
[10:23] <siretart> \sh: nobse also uses fai to install suse servers...
[10:23] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: yet another SRU policy 
[10:23] <Toadstool> simpler than the previous one though
[10:23] <\sh> siretart: hehe...I can decide now: sles9 ubuntu or rhel :)
[10:24] <\sh> or debian
[10:24] <siretart> \sh: but he is using apt-get, suse seem to provide 'official' apt sources for their repo
[10:24] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: hooray!
[10:24] <Toadstool> :)
[10:24] <\sh> siretart: for opensuse that's right...for sles9 you are fcked in any way...I'm using self managed yum repositories...
[10:25] <\sh> siretart: but the debian repos style :)
[10:25] <siretart> hm. ic
[10:26] <\sh> siretart: also, we have far too many self made rpm packages...beginning from kernels to oracle server/client packages 
[10:26] <\sh> siretart: very nasty 
[10:27] <siretart> \sh: I was just curious, partly because I talkt to Thomas this weekend
[10:27] <siretart> I talked, even..
[10:27] <\sh> oh did I say...oracle-client 10.2 does work on dapper 
[10:28] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: I'm writing the minutes... 
[10:28] <Hobbsee> nice, thanks
[10:28] <\sh> siretart: well, tbh, FAI itself is not a big problem anymore...more a problem is, the asset management, which has to be done with HP ServiceDesk..and I need to write some tools which are querying this HP SD tool to get some deployment data from it...
[10:29] <ajmitch> crimsun: it's a great feature of compiz that I can't type in my password for nm-applet
[10:29] <ajmitch> not showing anything in the window is a great security feature there
[10:29] <crimsun> ajmitch: neat! On this machine, I get the excellent proactive security feature of turning my entire screen black. Can't even log out.
[10:30] <ajmitch> impressive!
[10:30] <ajmitch> compiz mostly works for me on the laptop, so I'm pretty lucky
[10:30] <\sh> siretart: the next big problem...yum is not the right tool for managing software updates and downgrades...
[10:30] <ajmitch> \sh: not many packages will handles downgrades cleanly
[10:30] <\sh> ajmitch: without getting slow screen output during the next 5 minutes? ,-)
[10:31] <ajmitch> \sh: works fine, I've started using compiz as my main WM on the laptop
[10:31] <\sh> ajmitch: that's right...but we need to do it sometimes...especially when the devs are doing some nasty shit ;)
[10:32] <\sh> ajmitch: nvidia or ati card?
[10:32] <LaserJock> so is it 2 testing acks from anybody for SRU?
[10:32] <\sh> anyways I have to sleep a bit...so I need to go to my hotel :(
[10:32] <\sh> cu tomorrow :)
[10:33] <crimsun> LaserJock: essentially
[10:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: does the MOTU sponsor count? seems like they should
[10:34] <crimsun> LaserJock: yes
[10:34] <LaserJock> ok, thanks for the info, sorry I didn't make it
[10:34] <crimsun> np, we know married deities have to run the world
[10:35] <LaserJock> heh
[10:35] <siretart> ah, sparky seems to be indeed used by fellow MOTUs :)
[10:35] <siretart> hope it isn't too slow...
[10:38] <welshbyte> hm, you know you've been away too long when you have to look up the acronyms on the wiki
[10:38] <bddebian> Heh, heya welshbyte
[10:38] <welshbyte> ello bddebian 
[10:39] <ryanakca> what's an nmu?
[10:39] <welshbyte> non maintainer upload
[10:40] <tonyyarusso> ryanakca: non-maintainer-upload - ignore it
[10:40] <ryanakca> ah
[10:40] <ryanakca> kk
[10:40] <welshbyte> and that one wasn't even on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Acronyms :)
[10:40] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: (or crimsun) eventually, what was decided for pypanel? Do you still want a complete debdiff, or does it affects python-xlib ?
[10:40] <LaserJock> there's a Mozilla Team Council?
[10:41] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: there is now
[10:41] <mr_pouit> *affect
[10:41] <LaserJock> how odd
[10:43] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: we decided on the meeting that we won't have the motu-sru team any longer, and any motu can upload to -proposed
[10:43] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: so basically you'll just have to find a sponsor for the diff, who'll take care now
[10:43] <jdong_> sistpoty: who can +1?
[10:43] <jdong_> and how many needed
[10:44] <sistpoty> jdong_: there won't be +1 needed for -proposed any longer
[10:44] <sistpoty> jdong_: only 7 days of  testing and 2 works for me
[10:45] <jdong_> sistpoty: and anyone can worksforme?
[10:45] <sistpoty> jdong_: yep
[10:45] <jdong_> sistpoty: wow this is excellent news indeed
[10:47] <sistpoty> jdong_: yes it is. I hope that we'll finally get stuff into updates in a timely matter now :)
[10:47] <sistpoty> (and I don't need to write motu-sru reports any longer as a side effect *g*)
[10:47] <mr_pouit> ^^
[10:47] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok
[10:48] <tonyyarusso> Is anyone aware of licensing issues or other problems with Slim (Simple login manager) to keep it out of the repos?
[10:48] <mr_pouit> maybe missing COPYING file in orig tarball ?
[10:49] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: anyway as I've already said, I'd prefer to fix python-xlib, but if you can make sure that pypanel works fine with the workaround, I don't see a problem with that as well (due to only two rdepends of python-xlib)
[10:49] <Lutin> ajmitch: did you have some time to have a look to mlt ?
[10:50] <jdong_> sistpoty:  so eum, that means the Azureus fix is finally going to be in edgy-updates right? :D
[10:50] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: I checked on a pbuilder and it worked, but I'll try to look at python-xlib before attaching full debdiff
[10:51] <sistpoty> jdong_: yep... I'll plan on doing some uploads later tonight... but feel free to help out and sponsor any SRU's which have 2 works for me and are older than 7 days for -updates ;)
[10:51] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: please check also if it works actually, not just if it builds ;)
[10:51] <jdong_> sistpoty: I'm not MOTU, remember? ;-)
[10:52] <jdong_> sistpoty: is there a wiki document or mailing list post about this decision?
[10:52] <crimsun> dholbach is preparing the announcement.
[10:53] <sistpoty> jdong_: not yet... I'm writing on the minutes of the meeting and dholbach will write an announcement and update the wiki
[10:53] <jdong_> ok, thanks
[10:53] <jdong_> could I subscribe to the virtual MOTU pinging service for when that gets posted? :D
[10:54] <sistpoty> jdong_: you can subscribe to both the wiki page and ubuntu-motu ml? *g*
[10:54] <crimsun> I presume you're subscribed to ubuntu-devel-discuss@ and ubuntu-motu@ already?
[10:55] <Toadstool> tonyyarusso: no licensing issues afaik, just noone's packaged it well enough for it to be uploaded yet
[10:55] <LaserJock> crimsun: cookbook packaging guide, interesting idea
[10:56] <tonyyarusso> Toadstool: Has there been a pkging attempt that you are aware of ?
[10:56] <Toadstool> er... yeah I tried a few months ago ^^
[10:56] <Toadstool> never took the time to finish it though
[10:57] <Toadstool> tonyyarusso: https://code.launchpad.net/~jcorbier/+branch/slim/ubuntu <-- there you go if you want to finish waht I've done so far
[10:57] <tonyyarusso> Toadstool: Cool, thanks.
[10:58] <tonyyarusso> Toadstool: Do you know what outstanding issues there were?
[10:58] <Toadstool> none, just been too busy to package anything else lately
[10:59] <tonyyarusso> ok
[11:03] <jdong_> sistpoty: lol :)
[11:03] <jdong_> crimsun: I have to admit I am not subscribed to those high volume lists, but I do read thru the archives
[11:05] <LaserJock> -motu isn't high volume
[11:05] <LaserJock> -devel-discuss can be sorta
[11:05] <LaserJock> bugmail is high volume :-)
[11:06] <jdong_> LaserJock: if you say so
[11:06] <secureboot> anyone know of any documentation about how to package an init.d script? just call update-rc.d from postinst?
[11:06] <sistpoty> -motu even doesn't receive much spam...
[11:06] <secureboot> and have a file install to /etc/init.d
[11:06] <sistpoty> (which is moderated away anyways)
[11:07] <geser> secureboot: man dh_installinit
[11:07] <secureboot> geser: call that from postinst?
[11:08] <secureboot> nm
[11:08] <secureboot> looks more complicated - i'll look for examples
[11:08] <geser> no, it's debhelper scripts which you call from debian/rules and do the necessary work
[11:09] <geser> mv the file to the right place and add the necessary scriptlets to postinst
[11:09] <tonyyarusso> debhelper scripts are pretty impressive, I've found
[11:10] <geser> but you can do it also all by hand if you want
[11:10] <secureboot> geser: that's just an update-rc.d call, right?
[11:10] <stgraber> Any of you using Feisty has some problem with GPG signature with archive.ubuntu.com ?
[11:10] <ScottK> Way back when (ok - 3 months ago) it was suggested that I try and get the stuff I was bringing to Ubuntu into Debian.  I've started working on that.  I'd appreciate a point/how-to for setting up a sid chroot on an Ubuntu box.  Any pointers?
[11:10] <geser> secureboot: yes
[11:10] <ScottK> stgraber: Yes.
[11:10] <stgraber> I have a BADSIG here and not when using my local mirror (~3 hours from archive)
[11:11] <tonyyarusso> stgraber: Yes, all the time.  Running apt-get update usually fixes it
[11:12] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: why not just use pbuilder?
[11:12] <LaserJock> ScottK: what?
[11:12] <LaserJock> both of you need to try both :-)
[11:12] <ScottK> OK.
[11:13] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I'd probably say, even must.
[11:13] <ScottK> I'm game.
[11:13] <LaserJock> TheMuso: well, if you put it that way ;-)
[11:13] <TheMuso> dchroot rocks
[11:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: a plain chroot can easily end up cluttered with all kinds of stuff
[11:13] <TheMuso> Chroots are great for early release cycles.
[11:14] <LaserJock> ScottK: pbuilder allows you get closer to the buildd environment
[11:14] <ScottK> LaserJock: Yes, but I don't think that'll be a problem for the Python stuff I'm doing.
[11:14] <TheMuso> And for working on packages from other versions of a distro that you don't want a full install of./
[11:14] <LaserJock> ScottK: but we recommend you pbuilder *any* source package we sponsor
[11:14] <TheMuso> I simply keep base tarballs of chroots, and refresh them from time to time.
[11:15] <ScottK> OK.  How about a "use pbuilder to build packages for sid on Ubuntu" how to?
[11:15] <LaserJock> ScottK: no problemo
[11:15] <LaserJock> ScottK: grab http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/pbuilder-sid
[11:15] <LaserJock> drop it into your path some where and run pbuilder-sid create
[11:16] <LaserJock> you'll also want to create the results directory
[11:16] <LaserJock> which is ~/pbuilder/sid_result in the script ^^
[11:16] <LaserJock> but you can tweak it to whatever you like
[11:16] <ScottK> Cool.  I think I can manage that.
[11:17] <LaserJock> ScottK: I also have an Ubuntu one too
[11:17] <LaserJock> pbuilder-feisty
[11:18] <LaserJock> that one you can just cp pbuilder-feisty pbuilder-edgy && pbuilder-edgy create
[11:18] <ScottK> Thanks.  I'll experiment.
[11:18] <LaserJock> I guess I should have it create the result dir if it doesn't already exist
[11:19] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: you need http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-chroot.html
[11:20] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: ty
[11:20] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[11:20] <sistpoty> anyone who'd like to proofread the minutes? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8997/
[11:21] <ScottK> Any meeting minutes I didn't have to write are by definition perfect.
[11:21] <LaserJock> sistpoty: seems good
[11:21] <sistpoty> LaserJock: thx
[11:22] <LaserJock> I have some follow up I'd like to do since I was gone
[11:22] <crimsun> sistpoty: edited. 8998/
[11:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh?
[11:24] <ScottK> LaserJock: I'm helping one of the leaders of the Debian Python modules team write a "So you've packaged for Ubuntu, here's what you need to know to get started with Python modules in Debian" How to.  Unless you don't want me to, I think it makes sense to refer to your pbuilder script there?
[11:24] <sistpoty> thx crimsun
[11:25] <LaserJock> ScottK: how big is this HowTo going to be? And how much is different?
[11:25] <ScottK> It's going to be pretty short.  
[11:26] <LaserJock> ScottK: actually, let me clean it up a tad, give me a sec
[11:26] <ScottK> Mostly here's who you ask to get on the team, here's where you have to register.
[11:26] <ScottK> No rush.
[11:27] <ScottK> Here's ways that Ubuntu and Debian are different (e.g. in Ubuntu if the change is small, I don't patch, I modify the source files, but Debian almost always wants a patch).
[11:30] <LaserJock> ScottK: we don't patch?
[11:30] <bddebian> I don't if it's small
[11:31] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think we'd be any different than Debian there
[11:31] <LaserJock> I don't know of course, I just wouldn't have thought we'd be different there
[11:31] <ScottK> What I got told was if there's not patch system there already, don't create one unless you really need to.
[11:31] <ScottK> The difference is more a matter of emphasis from my perspective and VERY limited experience.
[11:38] <bddebian> WTF, I thought the hug day was going to be on Friday?
[11:40] <tsmithe> bddebian, looks like it's not then
[11:46] <sistpoty> bddebian: seems like this is even a different hug day than the universe one 
[11:47] <sistpoty> bdmurray: the hug day you announced is not for universe, right?
[11:47] <bddebian> Oh
[11:47] <sistpoty> s/not for/not targeted at/
[11:53] <bdmurray> bddebian: I hadn't seen any discussion about a Friday hug day
[11:53] <daviey> Hi, when i try to build a package i am getting "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: control file must have at least one binary package part"  Why is this?
[11:53] <bdmurray> sistpoty: not particularly for universe, no
[11:53] <sistpoty> bdmurray: ah, k... because we just decided to do a hug day on friday in the meeting and got a little bit confused *g*
[11:54] <sistpoty> daviey: check if there is one binary package listed in debian/control
[11:54] <sistpoty> (at least one binary package)
[11:55] <daviey> sistpoty, here is my control file http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9005/plain/
[11:55] <bdmurray> sistpoty: okay, sorry about that.  What do you have planned for Friday?
[11:55] <ajmitch> bdmurray: tagging bugs
[11:56] <sistpoty> bdmurray: tackle universe bugs in particular
[11:56] <sistpoty> bdmurray: no problem... was really just a small confusion right now ;)
[11:57] <daviey> sistpoty, any idea?
[11:57] <sistpoty> daviey: you're missing the binary package that should result from the source package... give me a sec and I'll update your pastebin entry
[11:58] <bddebian> Time to head home, later gang
[11:58] <daviey> sistpoty, thanks!
[11:58] <bdmurray> ajmitch: Have you written anything up about tagging bugs?
[11:58] <ajmitch> not me
[11:59] <daviey> sistpoty, i managed to build a src package, but a binary package was giving me a headache
[12:03] <sistpoty> daviey: I guess that could give you a start: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9010/
[12:04] <daviey> brb, thanks
[12:05] <sistpoty> crimsun, ajmitch, gpocentek: I'm just about to mail tb about Lure's application... anything I should add to the mail? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9011/
[12:05] <sistpoty> (or any mistakes? *g*)
[12:08] <sistpoty> added the lp-id: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9012/