=== RAOF [n=Chris_@matht464.maths.unsw.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Burgwork [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === blueCommand [n=bluecomm@unaffiliated/bluecommand] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:25] ajmitch: any news of the sparc build ? [12:34] Lutin: what's wrong with this buildd? [12:36] Toadstool: nothing wrong, I just forgot to disable the x86 asm code for mlt for non-x86 archs, so I want to make sure the fix actually works ): === stu_m [n=Stuart@user-514ddca2.l4.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:36] :) rather === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-motu === stu_m [n=Stuart@user-514ddca2.l4.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === jwhitlark [n=jwhitlar@h-67-102-70-2.snfccasy.covad.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [12:42] LMAO compiz slurped up a window [12:42] it must've gotten past upper clipping checks [12:43] and got above the title bar on restrict Y-axis mode... [12:43] then it wobbled for a little bit, and got slurped up... [12:43] and now I can't find it... :( === nothlit [n=nothlit@pcd416010.netvigator.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Ademan [n=dan@h-67-101-41-170.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:50] jdong: I like getting wobbly confused about what a window should snap to. [12:50] jdong: Then you can watch it osscilate between different positions :) === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:54] crimsun: it is a hard decision :( [12:54] joejaxx: why? [12:55] it has inertia; you shouldn't be concerned about existing users but potential users. [12:56] yeah [12:56] i just hope a move from the fluxbuntu name will not start another bad stigma [12:57] what's do you want to call it? [12:57] s/'s// [12:57] i do not know something that has nothing to do with the curent name [12:58] because there is that insertwindowmanagerherebuntu with it [12:58] so everyone thinks it is about fluxbox [12:59] too bad there was already the ubuntu lite project i would have probably called it that when i started it === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-065-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === apokryphos [n=apokryph@unaffiliated/apokryphos] has joined #ubuntu-motu === apokryphos [n=apokryph@unaffiliated/apokryphos] has joined #ubuntu-motu === apokryphos [n=apokryph@unaffiliated/apokryphos] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ash211_ [n=andrew@user-1121s8r.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Burgwork [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Burgwork [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-24-0-153-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fasdfas__ [n=asdfasdf@24.98.177.125] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [i=root@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cstudent [n=kirby@67.129.197.198] has joined #ubuntu-motu === caravena [n=caravena@117-29-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === caravena [n=caravena@117-29-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === helfire [n=helfire@MarshallDHCP-229.216-16-88.iw.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-24-0-153-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === g0su [n=moxilo@141.30.212.146] has joined #ubuntu-motu === twanj_ [n=chatzill@66.176.118.121] has joined #ubuntu-motu === twanj_ is now known as twanj === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu === nothlit [n=nothlit@n218103252054.netvigator.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === caravena [n=caravena@117-29-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === caravena_ [n=caravena@117-29-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === g0su [n=moxilo@141.30.212.146] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Saliendo"] === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === nixternal [n=nixterna@c-71-194-189-213.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:00] Heya gang [03:00] hello [03:01] Heya ajmitch === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:08] Damn, another mentor e-mail. Like I can mentor anyone :-( === janm [n=jmalonzo@29.182.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:17] bddebian: learn me, oh great one :D [03:18] hah, yeah right [03:18] bddebian: not bad, I've never managed to get an email about mentoring yet === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:19] ajmitch: I've gotten several but rarely hear back :-( === jdong thinks about saying something, then decides not [03:19] jdong: probably a wise choice [03:19] jdong: See you are already smarter than me, I would have said it ;-P [03:20] ajmitch: You know I love you deep down inside. [03:21] I'm sure you do, very deep === jdong thinks of something else to say, but decides not to say that either === jdong hugs ajmitch before he gets steaming mad [03:22] saying that you're not saying something isn't really helping [03:23] oh come on it was not going to be anything mean [03:23] just.... not appropriate humor for this channel. [03:24] s/for this channel// [03:24] pfft there's a time and a place for that's what she said jokes [03:24] like.... The Office [03:25] or when my math teacher hands back a proof test that says "Stop working on both sides" [03:25] (well... he wasn't too amused at the remark....) === ajmitch wonders when jdong is going for motu [03:27] ajmitch: do you think I have a chance? [03:27] at the moment, not much [03:28] I struggle to think of what you've contributed that can be measured for motu [03:28] it's on my list of goals somewhere [03:28] just not the immediate future [03:28] eg new packages, fixes, etc [03:28] I'm sure there are some, I just don't know them [03:31] there's not terribly many, but I've made some contributions in that manner [03:31] without a doubt not enough to be significant on the MOTU radar [03:31] jdong: Don't worry me, ajmitch wouldn't have me either ;-) [03:32] only because your application would be full of how much you suck, don't do anything, etc [03:32] tiring reading, really :) [03:34] You have a point there :-) === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:35] lol [03:35] ajmitch definitely practices the tough love thing === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:37] why waste words on being nice? [03:41] I like that way of looking at it :) === ajmitch might try & turn up to work late in the morning [03:41] so that I can get to the motu meeting === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:45] ajmitch: I got classes and would have a very tough time making it ot the MOTU meeting... you think putting xserver-xgl on the agenda is any good if I don't show up? === ajmitch shrugs [03:46] depends if the usual motu-uvf people are there [03:46] if I'm around, I'll try & remember === jdong hugs ajmitch again === ryan___ [n=ryan@CPE000f668aa600-CM0014045885f8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu === thoreauputic [i=peter@ubuntu/member/thoreauputic] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:45] hello imbrandon [04:45] heya joejaxx [04:46] how have you been? [04:51] good good [04:51] busy at times but good [04:51] imbrandon: I'm sorry for being an ass... :( [04:53] hi imbrandon [04:54] heya jdong ajmitch [04:54] jdong, np i just needed a bit to cool off === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-065-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === vil [n=vladimir@ubuntu/member/vil] has joined #ubuntu-motu === janm [n=jmalonzo@29.182.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:28] Heya LaserJock [05:28] hello LaserJock [05:28] hi guys === ash211 [n=andrew@user-1121s8r.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === janm [n=jmalonzo@29.182.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando__ [n=fernando@189.0.131.95] has joined #ubuntu-motu === superm1_ [n=superm1@12-226-238-227.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === PuMpErNiCkEl [n=pumperni@CPE0016b6c9fba4-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Ademan [n=dan@h-67-101-41-170.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [i=root@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === asantoni_ [n=alb@bas7-london14-1177945384.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:41] phooey - I don't have a new upstream tarball yet (expected on Friday) and the dev is in bed already [06:42] For what? Nvu? [06:42] RAOF: yes [06:42] :( [06:44] That's why I like being upstream. No pesky tarballs :) === twanj_ [n=chatzill@c-66-176-118-121.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === twanj_ is now known as twanj === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-motu === janm [n=jmalonzo@29.182.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-motu === asantoni_ is now known as asantoni === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === PuMpErNiCkLe [n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-motu === janm [n=jmalonzo@29.182.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fraco [n=fraco@213.219.186.162.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:34] morning folks [08:36] hi siretart === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F752EF.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:49] good morning [08:50] hi [08:51] hi ajmitch === Kagou [n=Kagou@86.76.26.233] has joined #ubuntu-motu === thoreauputic [i=peter@ubuntu/member/thoreauputic] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [08:59] Morning dholbach. [08:59] hi AstralJava === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:37] <\sh> moins [09:38] hi \sh [09:38] <\sh> wine will be uploaded in a few. === \sh gnarfs to edac amd patches and 2.6.20 vanilla kernel *gnarf* === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pochu [n=pochu@ubuntu/member/pochu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:55] <\sh> wine uploaded [10:05] hello === ajmitch files yet another uvf exception request === cassidy [n=cassidy@host-213-189-171-21.brutele.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:10] dholbach: we seem to have got through most of the uvf requests in the queue except xserver-xgl [10:10] ajmitch: i know [10:10] oh, and glom :) === ajmitch looks\ [10:11] glom looks fairly ok [10:13] :-D [10:17] ajmitch: was the sparc build of mlt successful ? === herzi [n=herzi@p548FF29C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:18] Lutin: eventually === Kagou [n=Kagou@86.76.26.233] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:22] ajmitch: cool, thanks :) [10:26] ajmitch: could you upload the debdiff please ? it's at http://dunnewind.net/~lutin/code/mlt_0.2.2+cvs20070213-0ubuntu2.debdiff :) === bluefoxicy [n=bluefox@c-68-33-112-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TheMuso will be attending the MOTU meeting. [10:32] Hey all BTW. [10:35] hi TheMuso [10:35] Lutin: I'll take a look [10:36] ajmitch: thanks :) === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d54C68D0D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-2c88b40c7c5533cf] has joined #ubuntu-motu [11:09] how do I report a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-applets/+filebug [11:09] err https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-applets [11:09] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=415242 [11:09] Gnome bug 415242 in gweather "Hazardous weather alerts" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] [11:09] wanna work on that === freeflying [i=root@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [11:09] anyone? [11:35] sweet, just closed nine bugs. === afflux [i=discoflu@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x6E18D3C4] has joined #ubuntu-motu [11:38] ok, bed time for an hour. [11:38] crimsun: good night === GNUro [i=GNUro@gateway/tor/x-ae9345e46e9a16fd] has joined #ubuntu-motu [11:43] 'lo! === lionel [n=lionel@ip-61.net-82-216-103.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Bye!] === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xerosis [n=kieran@87-194-21-125.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Ash-Fox [i=UNKNOWN@fgd182.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-24-0-153-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@modemcable134.233-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === arre [n=ac@1-1-5-33a.gfa.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TLE [n=kenneth@erlang.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Tonio_ [n=tonio@titoph.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === esaym [n=user@cpe-72-183-201-32.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === vil [n=vladimir@ubuntu/member/vil] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Tonio_ [n=tonio@titoph.planetemu.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === gismo_ [n=stef@89.28.145.214] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [i=root@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === dholbach_ [n=daniel@i59F70192.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Tonio_ [n=Tonio-@titoph.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cyt [n=cyt@linux.cs.ccu.edu.tw] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu === caravena [n=caravena@117-29-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === stan1 [n=stani@p5089A5E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:36] hello === Sp4rKy [n=maxenced@ubuntu/member/sp4rky] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jdong_ [n=jdong@SIMMONS-SEVEN-TEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cyt [n=cyt@linux.cs.ccu.edu.tw] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === stanibe_ [n=stani@p5089AC21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pirast [n=martin@p508B0CE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:05] ajmitch, ping [03:06] pirast: he's asleep === g0su [n=moxilo@141.30.212.146] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:06] hobbsee, mhm okay.. thanks === twanj_ [n=chatzill@c-66-176-118-121.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === twanj_ is now known as twanj [03:07] hobbsee, maybe you can help me? [03:07] too late :-( [03:09] siretart: could I get you to look at the xserver-xgl UVFe? === afflux [i=k@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x6E18D3C4] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:19] bug no? === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tmarble [n=tmarble@user-38q4et6.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === iceman [n=iceman@cable-87-244-154-165.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rrittenhouse [n=tad@unaffiliated/rrittenhouse] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:36] jdong: I've looked at it one more time, but I don't think I can decide on that. The changes are way too big for me to have good concience with approving it [03:38] siretart, slomo_, crimsun, ajmitch: maybe we should point out our concerns/feelings on the bug report and make it a decision [03:39] k [03:39] my argument towards approving it is that the current xserver-xgl package is utterly useless/broken. [03:39] while the new one works fine. I've been running it for the two weeks just fine. [03:40] if we ship a broken Xgl, it's going to cause total confusion by everyone attempting to use xserver-xgl [03:40] and us not including it officially will simply lead to more illegitimate repositories with various half-baked attempts at updating xserver-xgl. [03:40] the xserver-xgl package does not have any impact on any other package [03:40] which of the current bugs will it fix? [03:41] dholbach: bug 86841 [03:41] Malone bug 86841 in libxrandr "compiz/beryl does not refresh content of windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86841 [03:41] there are a couple of them open and nearly all of them unconfirmed/undecided [03:41] basically beryl and compiz will not redraw at all with xserver-xgl in feisty === caravena [n=caravena@117-29-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:41] making the whole package useless. === superm1_ [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:42] bug 89716 too [03:42] is it a libxrandr bug or xserver-xgl bug? [03:42] Malone bug 89716 in xserver-xgl "White screen with compiz (xgl and comp with different libGL to compiz?)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89716 [03:42] it's a libxrandr ABI change that caused it [03:42] a xserver-xgl bug for Xgl users [03:43] an AIGLX bug (fixed by rebuild/xorg 7.2 upload) for AIGLX'ers [03:43] jdong: I've just commented on the bug [03:44] jdong: is it correct that only fglrx users need xserver-xgl? [03:44] siretart: fglrx and nvidia-legacy [03:44] ah. hmm i see [03:44] so your point is to get the package either removed or updated, right? [03:44] right. [03:45] don't get me wrong, I appreciate your efforts - but for me looking at the update: I see 1) lots of bugs that look untouched, a 2) HUGE update, 3) no regular updates to the package at all [03:45] honestly, I'm rather for removing, but since we don't have personal package archives or something, this is probabably too harsh... [03:45] to me it's almost impossible to judge if it will work out or now [03:46] that's why I didn't comment any further on it [03:46] dholbach: from what your'e saying, it's better to totally remove the package? [03:46] since the long-term maintenance of the package seems bleak? === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d54C68D0D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:47] no, of course I'd like better maintenance of it - removal can't be the answer to things like that [03:47] dholbach: that's an interesting question for the motu council, imo: What shall we do with packages, from who we know that they are broken? until now, we rather have let them be broken in releases, which is suboptimal as well :/ [03:47] I just want to clarify why nobody of the five team members answered on it earlier [03:47] ok. [03:47] well, better maintenance will start by making the package work.... [03:47] shipping a version of xserver-xgl that just starts and does not ever redraw after starting [03:47] just sounds illogical. [03:48] of course it does... but maintenance is more than uploading a git snapshot - how willing are you to take care of the fallout of that update and further maintenance? [03:49] speaking for myself, I'd be glad to devote time in making sure Xgl is taken care of [03:49] my 3D desktop addiction depends on Xgl [03:49] siretart: removal should be the last solution in any case [03:49] dholbach: the point is that there is no one how has time and the ability to backport the fix from the new git snapshot to what we have in feisty. at least in the timeframe to feisty release [03:49] and the only case of fallout is if the package starts deleting random packages everywhere. [03:50] the current package does not work period..... a new one can't possibly get worse. [03:50] jdong: hu? what about 'usual' bug reports? [03:50] jdong: would you be willing to git bisect and identify the commit which makes xgl happy again? [03:50] siretart: yeah I can, but it's gonna probably be a huge set of changes that port Xgl over to the new Xorg 7.2 and Mesa API [03:51] dholbach: I'd be glad to sift thru the usual bug reports too if it makes you happy. === bddebian [n=bdefrees@63.81.56.182] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:51] jdong: you don't do that to make me happy - you do that if you want to *maintain* the package [03:52] jdong: are you bug contact and work regularily on xserver-xgl? [03:52] and make users happy and keep the package in shape [03:52] ok, I've bugmailed myself to the package. I will triage all xserver-xgl bugs to the best of my ability. [03:52] siretart: I just become bug contact; I didn't before work on xserver-xgl [03:52] Heya gang [03:52] jdong: I don't want to talk you into it [03:52] huhu bddebian [03:52] Hi siretart [03:52] dholbach: if someone more knowledgeable is willing to step up, I'd be cool with that.... [03:52] jdong: siretart sums it up quite well, when he says "To me this is update could mean a totally other set of bugs" [03:52] I am not the world's most confident person in my abilities. [03:53] siretart: what other kind of bugs can be generated? [03:53] I cannot imagine how xgl could get any worse [03:53] it a'ready doesn't draw. [03:53] hmm [03:54] jdong: like, well, not working any more on cards which worked before, or causing dataloss on cards you didn't test before or anything [03:54] siretart: it works on 0 cards right now. [03:54] jdong: how can you be sure? [03:54] siretart: and rendering opengl textures causing data loss? :) [03:54] siretart: because xserver-xgl is compiled against Xorg 7.0.0, does not build against current feisty [03:55] and I've yet to find one person in #beryl or antoher desktop effects community [03:55] that says Feisty xgl works [03:55] jdong: let's make a deal: please triage the existing bugs on xserver-xgl, mark duplicates as dups, and mention fixed bugs in your updated package. [03:55] and we should have an announce somewhere [03:55] that people test it and report back [03:56] siretart: ok, will do. [03:56] maybe the team around ubuntu-desktop-effects can help with that [03:56] dholbach: heh I think everyone developing Ubuntu has moved on to the AIGLX framework. [03:56] jdong: I'm pretty surprised that an ABI break in mesa/x11 breaks xserver-xgl. if this was true, the package should have been renamed so that all depending packages are forced to be recompiled. in this case, please file a bug about this [03:57] siretart: there's plenty more ABI breaks caused by Xorg 7.2's upgrade [03:57] jdong: but I'm not an xorg guru as well. I'm just pretty surprised [03:57] siretart: for starters , start DrScheme and hit any menu entry [03:57] pow, xlib->xcb assertion failure [03:57] searching xcb in Launchpad reveals a bunch more [03:58] jdong: well, I'd consider this a bug in packaging then. ABI breakage really should be represented in the packaging [03:58] jdong: in xorg/xcb packaging === nothlit [n=nothlit@pcd342182.netvigator.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:59] ok [03:59] if that's corrected, that just means all incompatible packages would be uninstallable.... [03:59] jdong: exactly! [03:59] that's a great solution. === allee [n=ach@allee.mpe.mpg.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:00] well, it's not that great, but at least lets us easily identify broken packages [04:00] hi allee! === somerville32 [n=chatzill@ubuntu/member/somerville32] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AnAnt [n=anant@62.139.130.178] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:07] *sigh* [04:08] Hello, is there a different between Edgy & Feisty in the way keystrokes are dealt with under the virtual console ? [04:08] maybe I do know too much about this xgl stuff [04:08] it's amusing how many bug numbers relating to this stuff I've committed to memory === caravena [n=caravena@117-29-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jekil [n=alessand@host220-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:16] siretart / dholbach: ok, these bugs are too overwhelming for me to deal with.... [04:16] I'm not an X developer by any means [04:16] jdong: I totally understand your point, and let me assure you, you are not the first who comes up with the same arguments in this discussion. I e.g. remember lucas arguing with ruby very similar [04:17] well there's got to be a better solution for Feisty than shipping a broken version or removing it altogether.... [04:17] ergo sum: xgl in ubuntu remains unmaintained. which is sad :( [04:17] jdong: nobody asks you to fix the bugs [04:17] jdong: but it helps to ask for more info and feed the information back to upstream [04:17] dholbach: I can't even classify the bugs in any way... [04:17] other than yes they happen, no they don't. [04:17] ... establish wiki pages with debugging info [04:18] hmhmhm [04:18] that's why it's hard to do updates like that :-( [04:18] ton's of 'unconfirmed' bugs looks like tons of bugs nobody did even care to read about them [04:18] yep [04:19] that's just a byfactor of the nature of Xgl.... [04:19] it's an ugly workaround to 3D desktops [04:19] espc. when there are so many bugs with the same bug title [04:19] and it also pushes OpenGL limits on those video cards [04:19] yeah all these crashes with stacktraces/whatnot attached [04:19] they're really hard to validate or classify. [04:20] jdong: if a software is unmaintainable, I fear that I don't see many other options than removing :( [04:20] stacktraces you can retrace and forward upstream [04:20] and if you get lots of them you can probably mark lots of them as duplicates [04:20] but that's work [04:20] I'm not sure if they are duplicates [04:21] dholbach: which is hard if upstream just tells you to try a later version :/ - what would really help here is if launchpad would automatically retrace the .crash files (which is planned, I assume) [04:21] yes it is [04:21] well... I'd rather see this package removed in this case. It appears pretty unsupported and nobody wants to support it. [04:21] but it's not hard to run apport-retrace -su on your box [04:21] and those who show interest in it don't have the knowledge or time to do it [04:22] wow. that looks neat [04:23] maintaining xserver-xgl is such a oxymoron too... all the library paths are different [04:23] depending on your video driver.... [04:23] you have to PRELOAD the binary's xlibmesa anyway to get Xgl to work [04:24] IMO this package is best pseudo-supported unofficially by Beryl repositories. [04:24] dholbach: apport-retrace -u seems undcoumented (?!) [04:24] -u, --unpack-only [04:24] Only unpack the additionally required packages, do not configure [04:24] them. The additional packages are purged again after retracing. [04:24] This is particularly useful when running this program in a fake [04:24] root environment, when not every package can be cleanly [04:24] installed completely. [04:24] well, and these bugs don't retrace [04:24] they are before Doomsday [04:24] apport-retrace 0.63 [04:24] any bug before 2/20-ish will not retrace anymore. [04:24] jdong, Me and lupine were discussing putting a fixed xserver-xgl onto our repos if it wasn't fixed for feisty. [04:25] jdong: that's something a maintainer needs to do [04:25] PriceChild: I think it's best to have the whole package moved to feisty. [04:25] err, beryl. [04:25] jdong: ask for more info - ask people to try to reproduce etc [04:25] I'm sure we could accommodate it. [04:25] dholbach: now you're just sending me on an 81*2-click snipe hunt. [04:25] EVERY bug is like this. [04:26] I've just looked through the first 20 [04:26] jdong: what am I? [04:26] dholbach: you seem to have some other apport than me: apport-retrace: error: no such option: -u [04:26] siretart: apport-retrace 0.63 [04:26] oh, I'm still at 0.61 :) [04:26] he split it into a new package [04:26] dholbach: trying to occupy me with a menial task so that I go away or infinitely get bogged in this. [04:27] going thru 81 bugs and setting NeedsInfo [04:27] jdong: what? [04:27] jdong: I said a couple of times, that you don't have to make me happy [04:27] well at this point I there's no option but to remove xserver-xgl. [04:28] it that's the best, then so be it. sad but true [04:28] jdong: I just said what it takes to maintain software - you can't just update 3 million lines of code and let people just deal with what you did - it's hard to measure progress of such an update if you (or somebody else) didn't look at bugs before === asantoni [n=alb@bas7-london14-1177945779.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:28] nobody is willing to maintain it.... [04:28] jdong: I definitely didn't say "go away" or "give you a task" [04:28] and I didn't mean to [04:28] and making it work and maintaining it seem to conflict in this case. === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:29] if you look at other uvf bugs, I asked people a couple of times to look at the fallout and bug reports stemming from their updates [04:29] dholbach: sorry. You gave me the see? not so easy to do it. No fix. [04:29] and it's quite natural to do that [04:29] I'm just saying in this case I see no fallout potential [04:30] No, it's not easy. I agree with you on that. [04:30] other than xgl going on a file-deleting rampage. === rexbron [n=rexbron@keele-a227-192.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:30] and that is not good enough of a reason as it seems :) [04:30] Ok... when I talk about "fallout" I mean bug reports which originate from the update. [04:30] so that leaves the only choice to be removing the package. [04:31] dholbach: if every program started with return 0, there would be no bug reports :) === pirast_ [n=martin@p508B3F8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:31] any bug reports arising from this would simply mean xserver-xgl worked again. [04:32] ... === rrittenhouse [n=tad@unaffiliated/rrittenhouse] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:33] as I said, there is not one example that anyone can come up with as to what can be worse than this package in its current, totally-broken state. [04:34] too bad that we don't have a 'temp. remove package' yet :( [04:35] IMO Xorg 7.2 should not have gone in. [04:35] the fact that it got in after UVF is utterly frustratingly unfair. === siretart agrees [04:36] especially since it inhibits fixing several programs that it broke. === Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:36] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=xcb+assertion&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package= [04:37] ^^ that's some of the stuff broken by Xorg 7.2 [04:37] most of which is fixed by a long stream of upstream changesets that accomodate Xorg 7.2 [04:37] which of course are painstakenly hard to backport [04:38] and yay for UVF. [04:38] can you follow up with that information in the bug report? === psusi [i=hidden-u@iriserv.iradimed.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:39] yeah === ivoks [n=ivoks@34-62.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:42] anyway, got to get to classes [04:42] I'll see you guys later [04:42] see you === Zic [n=Zic@Final-Fantasy.FF-IRC.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bronson [n=bronson@adsl-75-36-145-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pirast_ [n=martin@p508B3F8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === heinz55 [n=free@p57A7835E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:00] http://www.drogendealer.de/cgi-bin/dd.cgi?z8nBe44s === heinz55 [n=free@p57A7835E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sacater [n=sacater@host81-154-194-192.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xerosis [n=kieran@87-194-21-125.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron_ [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:42] siretart: do you want to put 'removal of packages' up for discussion for the MOTU meeting later? === pirast_ [n=martin@p508B3F8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:45] good morning everybody! === fowlduck [n=nate@student.matcmadison.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:46] Good morning Toadstool. [05:46] hi ScottK [05:46] ok see you later for the meeting === esaym [n=user@cpe-72-183-201-32.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-motu === r0b4t [n=Miranda@highway.mvi.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jdong [n=jdong@STRATTON-ONE-SIXTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ivoks [n=ivoks@34-62.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fowlduck [n=nate@student.matcmadison.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === CarlF1 [n=carl@c-24-13-53-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AlinuxOS [n=vsichi@host35-132-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Monk-e [n=guido@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ptitdav69 [n=ptitdav6@254.39.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === popey [n=alan@ubuntu/member/popey] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sacater [n=sacater@host81-154-194-192.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:17] Is there any reason scim would be needed for non-asian languages? (English and Spanish) === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bluefoxicy [n=bluefox@c-68-33-112-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jdong [n=jdong@18.83.7.234] has joined #ubuntu-motu === leonel [n=leonel@189.155.88.173] has joined #ubuntu-motu === phlaegel [n=phlaegel@S01060016b619a773.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === stratus [n=stratus@cronopio.rits.org.br] has joined #ubuntu-motu === matt_good [n=matt@206.106.238.18] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Ademan [n=dan@h-67-101-41-170.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === broonie [i=broonie@cassiel.sirena.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === broonie [i=broonie@cassiel.sirena.org.uk] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Riddell [i=jr@kde/jriddell] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:51] where is the upstream version freeze exception process documented? [07:52] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess [07:52] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess [07:52] *G* [07:52] shawarma: I hereby sue you for IP infringement. [07:52] :) [07:52] My irssi tells me I beat you to it. :-) [07:52] You *soooo* slow. [07:52] :-) === Amaranth_ [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:53] shawarma: well... I'm on MITNet. So I must have been faster. [07:53] take that. [07:53] Wow. It's got a built in time machine? [07:53] yes :) [07:53] actually the internet revolves around my laptop. [07:54] That's a lot of responsibility. === Monk-e [n=guido@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:54] I know. [07:54] lol [07:54] jdong answer was the first one to be show (at least here) :) [07:54] :) [07:55] I saw jdong first too [07:55] So, Is there any reason scim would be needed for non-asian languages? (English and Spanish) === tonyyarusso is wondering about whether to include it on a system === lukaswayne9 [n=lukas@68.84.69.12] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:57] stgraber, tonyyarusso: Bah. [07:57] :-) [07:57] :) [07:58] shawarma: by the way, thank you for the fix for openvpn, now it's possible to configure it without using the ALT key to move the settings window. [07:58] shawarma: just this little "push" thing and I'll be able to avoid the use of my ugly scripts :) [08:00] stgraber: I'm working on it right now. [08:00] good to hear, thank you very much === Riddell [i=jr@kde/jriddell] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Amaranth_ [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === igor [n=igor@200.179.57.57] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:02] hi all.. where can I learn about package pre-seed? [08:03] Reloading internet, will certainly be disconnected ... (but that's a risk to take to have 1 more MB :)) [08:04] igor: apt-get source ubuntu-desktop and look around [08:04] tonyyarusso: thankz ;-0 [08:04] I will give a try [08:04] look around you .... just look, around you [08:06] stgraber: Any preference about the text next to the checkbox? [08:06] shawarma: "Pull options from the server" ? [08:06] stgraber: Alright. [08:08] shawarma: If you don't have an OpenVPN server configured to use "push", you can simply upload the dsc, source and diff somewhere and I'll pbuild + test it locally === fraco [n=fraco@213.219.186.162.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:12] Does someone have an idea for Bug #85898 ? it fails only on buildd, so I can't really test :/ [08:12] Malone bug 85898 in kxgenerator "[feisty] FTBFS" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85898 === matt_good_ [n=matt@206.106.238.18] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:14] morning [08:15] mr_pouit: install pkgbinarymangler inside your pbuilder and build the package with it, it contains the pkgtranslationstrip script [08:15] geser: ok, i'll try this, thanks. === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:16] hi folks [08:16] hi sistpoty [08:16] hi ajmitch === davromaniak [n=cyril@AFontenayssB-152-1-90-159.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:20] where can I find this binary: germinate-update-metapackage [08:21] germinate [08:21] ajmitch: thankz === matt_good_ is now known as matt_good [08:24] where is the content of this variable "${ubuntu-minimal:Depends} (and others) [08:25] igor: have you looked already in debian/rules? [08:26] no. [08:26] i found === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:27] for seed in minimal standard desktop; do package=ubuntu-$$seed; [08:27] ... >> debian/$$package.substvars; (then the substvars are created) [08:27] fine ;-) === coNP [n=conp@unaffiliated/conp] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:28] geser: thank you [08:28] very smart indeed. [08:28] igor: text files in parent dir [08:29] tonyyarusso: I found it [08:29] {desktop,minima,standard}-{$ARCH} === lfittl [n=lfittl@213.129.230.12] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:29] s/minima/minimal/g [08:31] {desktop,minimal,standard}{,-recommends}-{$ARCH} (this fits better ;-) [08:32] btw, im also looking for how to feed my debconf with answers (example ntpdate servers, or locales to be generated), there is any documentation explaning how to do that? [08:33] igor: I ran across some recently - a sec [08:33] tonyyarusso: sure. ;-) [08:35] gpocentek: anything you'd like to add to Luka's application? if not, I'll send a mail to TB with our resolution, ok? [08:37] sistpoty: I'm surprised you're up so early ;) [08:38] :P === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:38] MOTU Meeting in 20min? [08:39] igor: This page and the various links from it may be useful: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization#head-d2e2ac6138c17dbdea4fdc90935c64eadf6388d7 [08:39] tonyyarusso: thankz I will read them all ;-) [08:39] Hey all. [08:39] LaserJock: so they say [08:39]