[07:18] <Admiral_Chicago> someone around to test a bug
[07:21] <Admiral_Chicago> someone check out All in One Gestures, see if it breaks the spell checker
[07:22] <Admiral_Chicago> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/12/
[07:22] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm using the EN-US build.
[08:38] <AlexLatchford> asac: TB Update just showed up by the way
[10:38] <asac> yep
[11:52] <asac>  Bug 89704
[11:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89704 in firefox "No backport of Firefox 2.o to Dapper" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89704
[01:20] <asac> hi all :-P
[02:08] <gnomefreak> good morning
[02:11] <gnomefreak> asac: did you release a new firefox to feistys repos?
[02:12] <asac> hmm
[02:12] <asac> thunderbird is updated
[02:12] <gnomefreak> 2.0.0.2+1-0ubuntu1
[02:12] <gnomefreak> is that newer that mt2?
[02:12] <asac> no
[02:12] <gnomefreak> ok
[02:13] <asac> mt2 is prepatch on top of that
[02:13] <gnomefreak> updates are trying to update me was wondering
[02:14] <gnomefreak> BTW im taking edgy retraces (since feistys are borked for me) if you run into any please assign to me ;)
[02:15] <gnomefreak> ah found the problem it was the -dbgsym packages that failed the upgrade :(
[02:20] <gnomefreak> asac: why is gothic marking every bug as a duplicate? :(
[02:23] <asac> already kicked him
[02:23] <asac> :)
[02:23] <asac> he excused
[02:23] <asac> its about the raise() thing
[02:24] <asac> apparently we were late
[02:24] <asac> :)
[02:24] <asac> i tried go unmark some
[02:24] <asac> i guess you found that
[02:24] <asac> gnomefreak: so you are edgy man now?
[02:24] <asac> :-D
[02:24] <gnomefreak> yep i can be :)
[02:24] <gnomefreak> i cant do feisty until i find out wth is going on
[02:25] <asac> can you mesaure bandwidth
[02:25] <asac> when downloading dbgsym packages for a feisty retrace
[02:25] <asac> ??
[02:25] <gnomefreak> no:(
[02:25] <asac> its that the reason why we have don't retrace on client machines is officially that it takes more bandwidth then uploading the crash report
[02:25] <asac> which I can't believe
[02:26] <asac> as -dbgsym packages appear to be really tiny
[02:26] <gnomefreak> they are
[02:26] <gnomefreak> apport will be doing retraces before report upload AFAIK atleast thats how i understood it from pittis email
[02:28] <asac> my last info is that this will be done automatically on server side
[02:29] <gnomefreak> well if hjmf wants he can fous on feisty crashes and ill focus on edgy crashes (plus the other things we do. that way it leaves you david alex and freddy for other things
[02:30] <gnomefreak> asac: at one time he wanted LP to do it but i dont know what ended up with that
[02:32] <asac> cool :) ... hopefully, we don't just do crashes and everything else is missed in the noise :)
[02:32] <gnomefreak> i do crashes on down time. if you need anything else just ping and i will stop retracing asap and get to it :)
[02:33] <asac> if hjmf script works well, I will try to add some automated service that does nothing else, but trying to retrace all reports
[02:33] <gnomefreak> but while the scripts are being automated apport is changing
[02:33] <gnomefreak> like now apport-retrace is a package on its own and options changed
[02:34] <gnomefreak> -d and -C were dropped
[02:34] <asac> yes
[02:34] <asac> now i remember
[02:35] <asac> he goes straight server:
[02:35] <asac> apport-retrace is moved to separate package beacuse users don't need it
[02:35] <asac> because retraces are only done automatically or by triagers
[02:35] <gnomefreak> right
[02:35] <asac> thats status quo
[02:35] <asac> i don't like core dumps submitted to public
[02:35] <gnomefreak> i was gone for 3 days and everything changed
[02:35] <asac> thats why I would like to push in other direction before too much work has been put into automating onserver side
[02:36] <asac> but for that i need bandwidth data
[02:36] <asac> to get discussion started
[02:36] <asac> good is ... the -C option (for cache) should be there
[02:36] <gnomefreak> asac: if qa team was able to remove coredumps... that would be nice but i dont know who can remove anything from LP other than Lp devels
[02:36] <asac> so you can just do du -HS /cachefolder
[02:36] <asac> to get info how much bytes were pulled for retrrace
[02:37] <gnomefreak> asac: its done automagicly so no need for -C and -d
[02:37] <asac> gnomefreak: i have a contact for that
[02:37] <asac> can you do a ls -l and du -Hs on cache folder
[02:37] <gnomefreak> asac: ive had a few people ask me to remove it
[02:37] <asac> and paste please?
[02:37] <gnomefreak> apt/cache folder?
[02:38] <asac> hmm
[02:38] <asac> dbgsym packages should be cached somewhere
[02:38] <asac> probably not in /var/... as you can run as user
[02:38] <gnomefreak> not anymore you dont
[02:38] <asac> from what i read pitti added option to say which polder
[02:38] <asac> you cannot run as user?
[02:39] <gnomefreak> not really
[02:39] <asac> thats a bug
[02:39] <gnomefreak> nope
[02:39] <asac> actually pitti invests lots of time
[02:39] <asac> to even deal with chroots automatically as user
[02:39] <asac> won't make sense if you cannot run as user
[02:39] <asac> what happens?
[02:39] <asac> if you try to run as user?
[02:39] <gnomefreak> i filed a bug about it not grabbing the -dbgsym packages and it needs to be run as root to grab them (but when i do it crashes
[02:39] <gnomefreak> crashing == bug :)
[02:40] <gnomefreak> hold on a  sec
[02:40] <asac> oh
[02:40] <asac> i guess you should not run as root
[02:40] <asac> this might cause serious hazards
[02:40] <asac> as apport is really tested by uploading to feisty
[02:40] <asac> so any bug can go in
[02:40] <asac> especially with auto chroots
[02:40] <asac> and stuff like that
[02:40] <asac> its getting dangerous :)
[02:40] <gnomefreak> bug 899169
[02:41] <gnomefreak> bug 89916
[02:41] <asac> yeah
[02:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89916 in apport "[Feisty] apport-retrace fails to retrace bugs." [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89916
[02:41] <asac> better
[02:41] <asac> :)
[02:41] <gnomefreak> either run as root or download -dbgsym packages by hand
[02:41] <gnomefreak> either way IMHO isnt real great
[02:42] <gnomefreak> i have to try the -u option ill see what happens
[02:42] <asac> You need to either install the missing packages ma
[02:42] <asac> You need to either install the missing packages manually (apport-retrace lists them) or run apport-retrace as root, or in a fakechroot with apport-chroot.
[02:42] <asac> try fakechroot
[02:42] <asac> i think thats the only thing pitti currently tests
[02:43] <gnomefreak> i dont have a clue wth fakechroot is
[02:43] <asac> me neither
[02:43] <asac> but i guess its a package
[02:43] <asac> and man fakechroot tells a lot :)
[02:44] <gnomefreak> but is it just a package or is it another chroot environment needed?
[02:44] <asac> its a package
[02:44] <asac> how it fakes the chroot ... i don't know
[02:44] <asac> i guess its just that users can setup chroots without being root
[02:45] <gnomefreak> i will look into it this afternoon i think
[02:45] <asac> fakeroot runs a command in an environment wherein it appears to have  root  privileges  for  file
[02:45] <asac>        manipulation.   This  is  useful  for allowing users to create archives (tar, ar, .deb etc.) with
[02:45] <asac>        files in them with root permissions/ownership.  Without fakeroot one  would  need  to  have  root
[02:45] <asac>        privileges  to create the constituent files of the archives with the correct permissions and own
[02:45] <asac>        ership, and then pack them up, or one would have to  construct  the  archives  directly,  without
[02:45] <asac>        using the archiver.
[02:45] <asac> ok
[02:45] <asac> so probably run ...
[02:45] <gnomefreak> so like fakechroot apport-retrace -v -d ..... ?
[02:47] <asac> hmm
[02:47] <asac> no
[02:47] <asac> i pasted wrong man
[02:47] <asac> :)
[02:47] <gnomefreak> lol that was fakeroot you pasted
[02:47] <asac> i will find out
[02:47] <asac> afaik
[02:47] <asac> there is a command
[02:47] <asac> apportfakechroot
[02:47] <asac> or something
[02:47] <asac> that does magic
[02:47] <asac> is fakechroot in dependencies of apport-retrace package?
[02:47] <gnomefreak> ill look into it there has to be something on it (wiki or something)
[02:48] <gnomefreak> not that i remember but will look
[02:48] <gnomefreak> Depends: python (>= 2.4), python-apport (>= 0.45), lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), sysv-rc (>= 2.86.ds1-14.1ubuntu2)
[02:48] <gnomefreak> nope
[02:48] <gnomefreak> oops
[02:49] <gnomefreak> Suggests: debootstrap (>= 0.3.3.2ubuntu2), fakeroot, fakechroot
[02:49] <gnomefreak> its a suggestion
[02:49] <gnomefreak> not a depends
[02:49] <gnomefreak> This package also ships apport-chroot. This tool can create and manage chroots for usage with apport-retrace.
[02:50] <gnomefreak> not real sure wth that is either. but i need to try this retrace with -u see if it works brb
[02:50] <asac> hmmm procmail failed
[02:50] <asac> delivered bugmail to inbox instead of bugbox
[02:51] <asac> yes thats the one
[02:51] <asac> i guess you can use fakechroot apport-chroot
[02:51] <asac> or something
[02:51] <asac> gnomefreak: let us know how it works if you find :)
[02:57] <gnomefreak> i will. if you run into pitti today for anything else please ask him a little more about this. i think we need to add this to agenda for meeting, but how since its changing daily? but i will man the packages --help them and search them when i get caught up hopfully before meeting
[02:58] <gnomefreak> not very frigging helpful at all :(
[02:58] <gnomefreak> wtf
[02:58] <gnomefreak> lets try this in chroot
[03:01] <gnomefreak> *mental_note* -u stops crash and stops the save on pc error
[03:10] <asac> hmm
[03:11] <gnomefreak> i dont like this
[03:11] <gnomefreak> asac: are you watching -devel?
[03:11] <gnomefreak> newer packages == need updated crashreport?
[03:12] <gnomefreak> will try to install the -dev packages anyway see if i get useful stack at all
[03:14] <asac> yes
[03:14] <asac> watching -devel
[03:14] <asac> why?
[03:16] <gnomefreak> asac: about the feisty retraces. he stated the feisty packages might be newer than the ones needed on retrace. what do we do? ask for a newer report?
[03:18] <asac> maybe hjmf still has older packages?
[03:18] <asac> otherwise for crashers, lets close them and say reporter that if crashes again he should reopen a new bug
[03:18] <asac> ... as next crash is often of different type then initial posted
[03:19] <gnomefreak> true
[03:19] <asac> further add info to that comment
[03:19] <asac> how to do retrace on his own
[03:19] <asac> stating that this is the only reliable way that we can process his report for development ubuntu (aka feisty)
[03:20] <asac> i have a greasemonkey script that allows to do bulk answers by one click
[03:20] <gnomefreak> i dont like the idea of giving the user instructions on it because they have a hard enough time getting backtraces using gdb
[03:20] <asac> it extends launchpad html ui
[03:20] <asac> and adds links that insert the text in the proper text field
[03:21] <asac> gnomefreak: yes ... lets not ask for gdb backtraces
[03:21] <gnomefreak> greasmonkey would need to be used via email reply
[03:21] <asac> why?
[03:21] <asac> greasemonkey works in browser
[03:21] <asac> you navigate to bug
[03:21] <gnomefreak> oh
[03:21] <asac> it extends webpages
[03:21] <asac> you can add elements and arbitrary javascript
[03:21] <asac> so we can extend launchpad
[03:21] <asac> as we like
[03:21] <asac> i can give you an example script
[03:22] <asac> though it works only on non-beta
[03:22] <asac> because relevant html elements and page names are different
[03:22] <gnomefreak> asac: i dont ask for gdb unless they have a useless crash report. but i still think asking them to retrace thier own reports is not a great idea either
[03:23] <asac> install greasemonkey
[03:23] <asac> then open
[03:23] <asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/bugtriage.user.js
[03:24] <asac> goto non-beta comment page
[03:24] <asac> and you will see links for bulk answers
[03:24] <asac> if you open the change state panel
[03:24] <asac> hmm
[03:24] <asac> i think retrace is more user friendly then gdb
[03:24] <asac> as gdb needs to be run for a long time to eventually recapture
[03:24] <asac> and retrace is definitly right
[03:24] <asac> however if old
[03:25] <asac> just close and say if it ever crashes they should report new bug
[03:25] <asac> and that we are sorry, that we couldn't help
[03:27] <gnomefreak> ok i think letting hjmf know until i can get feisty retraces to work.
[03:28] <gnomefreak> i cant seems to open non beta pages :( i re-did URL to not use beta but still didnt brb i need to figure a few things out before i forget
[03:28] <asac> ok
[03:30] <gnomefreak> asac: this addess should open non beta https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/89916
[03:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89916 in apport "[Feisty] apport-retrace fails to retrace bugs." [Low,In progress] 
[03:30] <gnomefreak> but it doesnt it re-adds beta to it
[03:30] <gnomefreak> is there a way to disable beta view?
[03:32] <gnomefreak> oh and sebs link above does do anything
[03:45] <gnomefreak> Done downloading
[03:45] <gnomefreak> --- stack trace ---
[03:45] <gnomefreak> #0  0xb7f00410 in _start () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2
[03:45] <gnomefreak> #1  0xb7d504f1 in ?? ()
[03:45] <gnomefreak> #2  0x0805b30c in SIGTERM_oldact ()
[03:45] <gnomefreak> #3  0x0000000b in ?? ()
[03:45] <gnomefreak> #4  0xbfe63dc8 in ?? ()
[03:45] <gnomefreak> #5  0x08057596 in nsProfileLock::operator= (this=0xb, rhs=@0xbfe63d3c) at nsProfileLock.cpp:96
[03:45] <gnomefreak> No locals.
[03:45] <gnomefreak> Backtrace stopped: frame did not save the PC
[03:46] <gnomefreak> in chroot it works as far as grabbing the -dbgsym packages but ends in that. in non chroot it doesnt really grab the dbgsym packages and doesnt end in that
[03:47] <asac> he?
[03:48] <asac> what issues are we on here?
[03:48] <asac> first: greasemonkey script of seb ?
[03:48] <gnomefreak> there is no script there
[03:48] <asac> second: stacktrace
[03:48] <asac> what?
[03:48] <gnomefreak> its untitled page without a popup for download
[03:48] <asac> definitly
[03:48] <asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/bugtriage.user.js
[03:48] <asac> i just opened
[03:48] <asac> there is a java script file
[03:49] <gnomefreak> im not getting anything there
[03:49] <asac> you have greasemonkey installed already?
[03:49] <gnomefreak> its blank
[03:49] <gnomefreak> yes
[03:49] <gnomefreak> and restarted ff already after installing it
[03:49] <asac> which vversion?
[03:50] <gnomefreak> firefox-greasemonkey: Installed: 0.6.6.20061017.0-2ubuntu1
[03:52] <gnomefreak> even if i open http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/ and click on bugtriage... it doesnt do anything at all. wont load wont think about loding
[03:52] <gnomefreak> loading
[03:54] <gnomefreak> and JS is enabled
[03:54] <gnomefreak> firefox version 2.0.0.2+1-0ubuntu1.mt2
[03:57] <gnomefreak> all the other links on the page work fine its just that one that doesnt do anything
[04:07] <asac> hmm
[04:07] <asac> for me it pops up
[04:07] <asac> asking me if i want to install the greasemonkey script
[04:07] <gnomefreak> maybe i should check pop  up blocker
[04:07] <asac> hmm
[04:07] <asac> don't think so
[04:08] <asac> extension can always break popup blocker
[04:08] <asac> maybe download with wget
[04:09] <asac> and add through tools->greasemonkey->manage scripts
[04:09] <asac> and there Edit
[04:09] <gnomefreak> good idea :)
[04:09] <asac> where you can choose script on hd
[04:09] <asac> where did you get greasemonkey from
[04:09] <asac> ??
[04:09] <asac> i installed it as ubuntu package iirc
[04:09] <gnomefreak> asac: ubuntu
[04:11] <gnomefreak> ok i have manage scripts open. so add it?
[04:11] <gnomefreak> to included pages?
[04:12] <asac> no
[04:12] <asac> on the left
[04:12] <asac> edit
[04:12] <asac> and then there is a filepicker
[04:12] <gnomefreak> again its not poping one up
[04:12] <gnomefreak> wtf is going on here
[04:12] <asac> you press on edit and nothing happens?
[04:13] <asac> you see anything in javascript console?
[04:13] <gnomefreak> asac: right
[04:13] <gnomefreak> nope
[04:16] <asac> crazy
[04:16] <asac> what if you remove greasemonkey package and install from addons?
[04:17] <gnomefreak> trying
[04:20] <gnomefreak> nope still not opening anything
[04:20] <gnomefreak> asac: what version of ff are you using?
[04:21] <asac> hmm
[04:22] <asac> egy
[04:22] <asac> edgy
[04:22] <asac> 2.0.0.2+...
[04:22] <asac> maybe you have other extension installed
[04:22] <asac> that breaks greasemonkey?
[04:24] <gnomefreak> ill look at it in a bit i need to do something.
[04:27] <asac> sure
[04:33] <gnomefreak> i think i know what is messing it up :) checking now
[04:35] <gnomefreak> thats strange
[04:35] <gnomefreak> Warning: Error in parsing value for property 'display'.  Declaration dropped.
[04:35] <gnomefreak> Source File: https://beta.launchpad.net/+icing/style.css
[04:35] <gnomefreak> Line: 12
[04:35] <gnomefreak> im gonna clear them and try again
[04:36] <asac> hmm
[04:37] <gnomefreak> those are page errors i also get them with wikis
[04:37] <asac> you have problems i cannot tell :)
[04:37] <asac> i guess they are not that bad
[04:37] <asac> maybe they just exist for ie
[04:37] <gnomefreak> http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/index.html  this doesnt spit out anything
[04:37] <asac> and firefox just verbosely ignores them
[04:38] <asac> do you have extensions installed?
[04:38] <asac> i think there are really some that are incompatible with greasemonkey
[04:38] <gnomefreak> yes im disable them now
[04:39] <gnomefreak> got a bigger edit button but still not poping anything up :(
[04:39] <asac> try invoking the js by url too
[04:39] <asac> cannot remember if one can really add by edit
[04:39] <asac> maybe its indeed just update already added scripts
[04:39] <asac> i have one installed and pressing edit brings file dialog
[04:40] <asac> navigating to .js url pops up install script dialog
[04:40] <asac> similar to the install extension dialog
[04:40] <gnomefreak> ok ill try
[04:40] <gnomefreak> that worked
[04:42] <gnomefreak> still cant get out of beta :(
[04:42] <gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/80533
[04:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80533 in firefox "Firefox crashed while downloading flashplayer from adobe site" [Medium,Needs info] 
[04:42] <gnomefreak> that pulls up beta :(
[04:44] <gnomefreak> it doesnt look like you can disable LP beta view
[04:46] <asac> hmm
[04:46] <asac> i managed
[04:46] <asac> last time i tried :)
[04:47] <gnomefreak> ah i found it
[04:47] <asac> where ... now i can't find it :)
[04:47] <gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/
[04:47] <asac> you ahve to go to www.launchpad.net
[04:47] <gnomefreak> asac: on top says disable for 2 hours
[04:48] <asac> yes
[04:48] <gnomefreak> ok what am i looking for on the page?
[04:48] <asac> go to some bug
[04:48] <asac> go to place where you would change statet
[04:48] <asac> e.g. needs info
[04:48] <asac> there should be new links
[04:48] <asac> for bulk replies
[04:49] <gnomefreak> Needs Backtrace]  [Needs Details]  [No Reply]  [Forwarded]  [Support Request]  [Default Change]  [Duplicate] 
[04:49] <gnomefreak> that?
[04:50] <gnomefreak> sweet
[04:51] <gnomefreak> now if we can get that for beta it would be alot of help ;) but beta always changes so maybe not best idea
[04:55] <asac> gnomefreak: yes
[04:55] <asac> i will work on this
[04:55] <gnomefreak> noone asked why this person was Right click and choose save as for the flash rpm file.
[04:55] <asac> beta should be not too unstable
[04:55] <asac> i hope
[04:55] <gnomefreak> asac: cool ty. might want to add "our" responces to some if you van :)
[04:56] <gnomefreak> s/van/can  unless its too much work than we can use them as is
[04:58] <gnomefreak> its not #1 priority, i would say add that to your to-do-list on freetime :)
[04:58] <asac> gnomefreak: definitly
[04:58] <asac> we need our own responses
[04:58] <gnomefreak> i might have a look at it see if i cant change it.
[04:58] <asac> those are not of much help
[04:59] <gnomefreak> it shouldnt be too hard, all the calls and everything are there just woud need to replace launchpad.net to beta.launchpad.net and things like that
[04:59] <gnomefreak> atleast that is without looking at it
[05:00] <asac> gnomefreak: i guess the html elements are not the proper one
[05:00] <asac> form field might be in different place in hierachy
[05:00] <gnomefreak> oh
[05:00] <asac> so some html reading is necessary for beta too
[05:01] <asac> anyway, skeleton is there
[05:01] <asac> the rest is just work
[05:01] <gnomefreak> you might have to do it than but i will look at it see if my limited knowledge can do it
[05:01] <asac> there are xpath strings
[05:01] <asac> those need to be adapted
[05:01] <asac> maybe you recognize them
[05:02] <asac> if not i can take a look at some point in near future
[05:02] <gnomefreak> i will try to look at it before meeting and sometime after or before meeting i will let you know
[05:02] <asac> oh damn meeting
[05:02] <asac> i have to dial in
[05:02] <asac> to mozilla status meeting
[05:02] <asac> hmmm
[05:03] <asac> i guess i can only comment sporadically
[05:03] <asac> damn damn damn
[05:03] <asac> its 1900 ?
[05:03] <asac> UTC?
[05:03] <gnomefreak> 18:00 UTC
[05:03] <asac> oh
[05:03] <asac> that might work
[05:03] <asac> :)
[05:03] <gnomefreak> so 1900 for you i think
[05:03] <asac> 1900 utc is mozilla conference
[05:03] <asac> ok
[05:05] <asac> @schedule
[05:05] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 06 Mar 23:00: New York LoCo Team | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 07 Mar 17:00: First Launchpad Users meeting | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[05:05] <asac> @schedule europe/berlin
[05:05] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 00:00: New York LoCo Team | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 07 Mar 18:00: First Launchpad Users meeting | 08 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[05:05] <asac> ok
[05:27] <gnomefreak> hjmf: would you mind if you did feisty retraces and i did edgys? i cant get feistys to run properly yet. this way you can focus on feisty and i can focus on edgy retraces.
[05:28] <hjmf> gnomefreak: OK, I'll do feistys
[05:28] <gnomefreak> ok cool :) thank you
[05:28] <hjmf> btw have you tested new apport?
[05:28] <gnomefreak> yes there are alot of things we need to look into
[05:28] <hjmf> does it work fine
[05:28] <hjmf> ?
[05:29] <hjmf> for what Ive read it creates it's own chroot
[05:29] <gnomefreak> not on edgy i didnt try it but on feisty theres alot i need to know before i can work it properly
[05:29] <gnomefreak> you need to use either root or retrace-chroot/ fakechroot
[05:29] <asac> hjmf: if you have not old apport in cache better not upgrade ... John said feisty is broken atm
[05:30] <gnomefreak> but i havent had time yet to deeply look into that
[05:30] <gnomefreak> for me it has been so i have alot of working to do with it
[05:30] <gnomefreak> running it now after installing packages
[05:30] <hjmf> asac: I'm using an old apport since  I was not confident with the new improvements
[05:30] <gnomefreak> see if it helped
[05:31] <gnomefreak> hjmf: new improvments suck IMHO makes it that much harder to use
[05:31] <gnomefreak> but i will keep you guys informed when i figure these things out
[05:31] <asac> hjmf: wise man :)
[05:32] <hjmf> gnomefreak:  ok. But afaik it now downloads each time all the dbgsyms
[05:32] <asac> gnomefreak: i think its just temporarily
[05:32] <hjmf> asac: :)
[05:32] <gnomefreak> yes sort of
[05:32] <asac> if bugs are gone things will be more powerful
[05:32] <asac> though maybe for most simple things a bit more difficult
[05:32] <asac> but who knows
[05:33] <gnomefreak> hjmf: for that to worky ou need to either use fakechroot or root
[05:34] <hjmf> gnomefreak: ok. I'll read the docs. if any.
[05:35] <gnomefreak> hjmf: bug 89916 might get you started
[05:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89916 in apport "[Feisty] apport-retrace fails to retrace bugs." [Low,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89916
[05:35] <gnomefreak> *might*
[05:36] <hjmf> @schedule barcelona
[05:36] <gnomefreak> i keep getting WARNING: could not install missing packages: dpkg failed to unpack archives
[05:36] <hjmf> @schedule Madrid
[05:36] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Madrid: 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 00:00: New York LoCo Team | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 07 Mar 18:00: First Launchpad Users meeting | 08 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[05:37] <hjmf> I won't be online for the meeting
[05:37] <Admiral_Chicago> @schedule Chicago
[05:37] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 06 Mar 12:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 14:00: MOTU meeting | 06 Mar 17:00: New York LoCo Team | 07 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu | 07 Mar 11:00: First Launchpad Users meeting | 08 Mar 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[05:37] <asac> heh
[05:37] <asac> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=415179
[05:37] <Admiral_Chicago> i may be in class as well
[05:37] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 415179 in general "crash in Movie Player: smoking a joint." [Critical,Resolved: duplicate] 
[05:37] <asac> :)
[05:37] <asac> so lets reproduce that one
[05:37] <Admiral_Chicago> wait, no i'll be here...
[05:37] <asac> :)
[05:39] <gnomefreak> ok just uploaded log file to bug report for pitti
[05:42] <gnomefreak> asac: that looks alot like the bugs we have with #34 0xb72d43f7 in pthread_mutex_lock () in retrace. (i dont remember numbers i do too many bugs at a time)
[05:43] <gnomefreak> ok im off for lunch i should be here before meeting ;)
[05:43] <asac> hmm
[05:43] <asac> 0xb72d43f7
[05:43] <asac> is illegal
[05:43] <asac> is that a long stack?
[05:43] <gnomefreak> on the upstream bug yes on ours not so long
[05:43] <asac> ok
[05:43] <asac> if you find such a bug, let me know :)
[05:44] <gnomefreak> 129 on upstream
[05:44] <gnomefreak> i will
[05:44] <gnomefreak> brb
[06:22] <hjmf> see you, have to go
[06:22] <gnomefreak> bye
[06:27] <Admiral_Chicago> grammar is *hard*
[06:28] <Admiral_Chicago> err #ubuntu-meeting
[06:30] <gnomefreak> asac: should i bother with a dapper chroot for retraces?
[06:30] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: still have 30minutes
[06:30] <gnomefreak> ;)
[06:30] <Admiral_Chicago>  i know.
[06:31] <Admiral_Chicago> i may be in and out, i have my grammar hw to look at still...
[06:33] <asac> gnomefreak: dapper has no apport nor crash reports i guess
[06:34] <gnomefreak> asac: good point
[06:34] <asac> dapper chroot would be of benifit to help on QA on security releases
[06:34] <asac> :)
[06:35] <gnomefreak> ok today ill try to get to it
[06:35] <gnomefreak> have a problem here
[06:36] <gnomefreak> seems bug 19552 is a dump bug. everyone just throws reports there and so far after the first 5 only 1 report is good. im assuming we have done most of them on other bug as i remember the users
[06:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 19552 in firefox "Crash after firefox is opening a new window (when it should open the new URL in the same window/tab) - No More Crash Report Please!" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/19552
[06:37] <gnomefreak> i would like to close this or do something with it.
[06:37] <gnomefreak> i know 3 or 4 or the users were posting reports on any bug that looked the same. serge for example attached his crash report to over 6 bugs on the same day
[06:38] <gnomefreak> what do you think best way would be
[06:40] <gnomefreak> looks like i did most of them already. i will do the last one on there and see what i come up with
[06:44] <gnomefreak> asac: heres one with #6  0xb7e15cc0 in __pthread_mutex_unlock_usercnt () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0
[06:45] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/19552/comments/52
[06:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 19552 in firefox "Crash after firefox is opening a new window (when it should open the new URL in the same window/tab) - No More Crash Report Please!" [High,Needs info] 
[06:53] <dfarning> good morning all
[06:54] <Admiral_Chicago> hey david
[06:54] <dfarning> Am  I here at the correct time
[06:54] <gnomefreak> good morning
[06:54] <gnomefreak> yes
[06:55] <dfarning> hey gnomefreak is every thing going ok at home
[06:55] <gnomefreak> so far so good, aunts really sick thats why im in PA
[06:56] <gnomefreak> ill be here for about a month. i hope less
[06:58] <dfarning> Im sorry
[06:58] <gnomefreak> its ok just have to see what happens with new meds
[06:59] <dfarning> dad started a new cycle of chemo today so it is a bit touchy here
[06:59] <Admiral_Chicago> thats rough
[07:00] <gnomefreak> sorry to hear that
[07:00] <dfarning> ty
[07:00] <AlexLatchford> Howdy
[07:01] <Majost> hang in there.. I'v been where you are myself.
[07:01] <gnomefreak> hi AlexLatchford
[07:02] <AlexLatchford> :)
[07:02] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: you ready? and are you still chairing?
[07:03] <Admiral_Chicago> dfarning: some other time, i'd like to talk about the DerivativeTeam
[07:20] <gnomefreak> asac: i assigned you to bug 19552 ;) please dont hate me :)
[07:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 19552 in firefox "Crash after firefox is opening a new window (when it should open the new URL in the same window/tab) - No More Crash Report Please!" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/19552
[07:20] <asac> gnomefreak: ok
[08:06] <dfarning> Admiral_Chicago, you had a question about DerivativeTeam?
[08:07] <Admiral_Chicago> yea, what are you guys doing
[08:07] <Admiral_Chicago> just kicking it off?
[08:07] <dfarning> yes
[08:08] <Admiral_Chicago> cool! need help?
[08:08] <dfarning> basically I am trying to get a policy together where it is easier for our derivates to work with us
[08:08] <dfarning> not just chuck our packages over the fence and forget about them;(
[08:08] <Admiral_Chicago> i think a large part is getting resources to work for another team.
[08:08] <Admiral_Chicago> i'd like to see more people doing xubuntu-doc work.
[08:09] <AlexLatchford> dfarning: you should talk to LP Team to get a +Downstream button added
[08:09] <AlexLatchford> so we can track stuff
[08:09] <dfarning> working on that;)
[08:10] <dfarning> I want downstreams to pass us good issues report
[08:10] <dfarning> but they mostly use bugzilla
[08:10] <dfarning> LP is more capable bt propritary;(
[08:12] <Admiral_Chicago> goodness, this grammar is impossible
[08:12] <Admiral_Chicago> dfarning: send me an email, i like your team idea
[08:12] <Admiral_Chicago> i'll be winning to help out as much as I can
[08:13] <dfarning> will do and thanks
[08:13] <Admiral_Chicago> just make sure its an email or else I won't get to it...i've become one of those people
[08:14] <Majost> Downstream tracker is important to us here at linspire.
[08:15] <Majost> nothing I sucks up more of my time than searching multiple databases for the same bugs
[08:15] <Majost> heh
[08:17] <Admiral_Chicago> yup, thats a big waste
[08:21] <asac> hehe ... funny thing such a conference :)
[08:22] <asac> Majost: what do you mean by downstream tracker?
[08:22] <asac> what do you have in mind ... any specific ideas on how to improve launchpad in this regards?
[08:24] <AlexLatchford> Minutes available at.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Mozilla/20070306
[08:37] <gnomefreak> ty AlexLatchford
[08:38] <Admiral_Chicago> thanks AlexLatchford
[08:44] <Majost> asac, to check bugs on our side as well
[08:44] <Majost> and viceversa
[08:48] <Majost> I think a use case is in order here...
[08:48] <Majost> Lets start with an application crashing, and apport coming into action
[08:49] <Majost> user is directed to the launchpad site, enters the description of the bug and a search is executed for a similar bug
[08:51] <Majost> however a similar/same bug does not exist on launchpad, but may exist on bugzila.freespire.org or even upstream at Debian
[08:53] <asac> ok
[08:53] <asac> for crash reports its probably a traceback db which is needed
[08:54] <asac> a central one where you can make your users commit to as well
[08:54] <asac> but for other bugs i don't know
[08:54] <Majost> *nod*
[08:54] <Majost> it is a tough problem
[08:55] <asac> if we have central db we need to ensure that we can properly identify issues that do not come from us/you
[08:55] <Majost> yup
[08:55] <Majost> thats where things get sticky
[08:55] <Majost> whos bug is it REALLY
[08:55] <asac> i don't see a problem
[08:55] <Majost> is it a mozilla bug, a debian bug, etc.
[08:55] <asac> if we have a db and can see that it originates from linspire
[08:56] <asac> we have to look into crashes anyway
[08:56] <asac> however for matching already found dupliates its helpful
[08:59] <Majost> I agree
[09:00] <asac> in the end we cannot demand anything from the other side (e.g. fix now or else ...); so its only about improving information infrastructure so we don't duplicate effords.
[09:02] <asac> and if you have patches that you think apply to us too, just make sure I see them, so i can get upstream approval and include at some point.
[09:15] <gnomefreak> asac: this is the one we have alot of with pthread_mutex_unlock_*  http://librarian.launchpad.net/6488411/Stacktrace
[09:15] <gnomefreak> from bug 76608
[09:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76608 in firefox "Crash when opening a bookmark via del.ico.us" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76608
[09:15] <gnomefreak> oops no
[09:15] <gnomefreak> bug 77222
[09:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77222 in firefox "crash from viewing java-applet containign page runescape.com on a low memory machine" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77222
[09:16] <gnomefreak> 77308 also
[09:21] <asac> hmm
[09:24] <asac> bug 76608 is
[09:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76608 in firefox "Crash when opening a bookmark via del.ico.us" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76608
[09:24] <gnomefreak> thats what i said too. not real sure what the mutex is but alot of bugs have it
[09:25] <asac> @g_timeout_dispatch @nsAppShell::Run
[09:25] <asac> bug 77222 is:
[09:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77222 in firefox "crash from viewing java-applet containign page runescape.com on a low memory machine" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77222
[09:25] <gnomefreak> lp is slow as crap here
[09:25] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: you still here?
[09:26] <asac> Dimal's is same
[09:26] <gnomefreak> im leaning towards bug 84716 to be more orca than fx
[09:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84716 in firefox "firefox crashes, screen divides after applying orca screen reader" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84716
[09:26] <asac> elpitagorico's is
[09:26] <asac> @DocumentViewerImpl::Destroy
[09:26] <asac> for now
[09:27] <gnomefreak> @g_timeout_dispatch @nsAppShell::Run??? same this as nsAppShellrun?
[09:27] <asac> no ... this is something new
[09:27] <asac> just add those two to summary
[09:27] <asac> and name it master of that crash
[09:27] <gnomefreak> k
[09:27] <asac> [@g_timeout_dispatch]  [ ...] 
[09:27] <asac> i think 77222 should be used for elpitagorico's issue
[09:28] <asac> e.g. [@DocumentViewerImpl::Destroy] 
[09:28] <asac> [@nsPluginInstanceOwner::Init@
[09:28] <asac> ^^ add that to 77222 as well
[09:28] <asac> [@nsPluginInstanceOwner::Init] 
[09:28] <asac> of course
[09:28] <asac> so 77222: [@DocumentViewerImpl::Destroy]  [@nsPluginInstanceOwner::Init]  :-D
[09:29] <gnomefreak> so dont name it master? or still do
[09:30] <gnomefreak> bug 77222 is as follows
[09:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77222 in firefox "[@DocumentViewerImpl::Destroy]   [@nsPluginInstanceOwner::Init] " [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77222
[09:30] <asac> sure master
[09:30] <gnomefreak> k
[09:31] <asac> always master if we have no other master for that
[09:31] <asac> and move master to confirm
[09:31] <asac> confirmed state i mean
[09:31] <gnomefreak> k
[09:31] <asac> not mt-confirm
[09:31] <asac> mt-upstream is tag
[09:31] <gnomefreak> should i report one for dimal or is he part of this bug?
[09:32] <asac> drop a note that dimal is a duplicate from the other crash ... but that we use this report for elpit...'s crash
[09:32] <asac> you can subscribe dimal to the other
[09:32] <asac> as a servie
[09:32] <gnomefreak> dupe of what crash? you said his was a new one i thought
[09:32] <asac> no elpitagorico's is new
[09:33] <asac> dimal is dupe of the first bug you mentioned
[09:33] <asac> bug 76608
[09:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76608 in firefox "Crash when opening a bookmark via del.ico.us" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76608
[09:33] <asac> or?
[09:33] <asac> maybe verify that his stacktrace really has the timoeout issue
[09:33] <gnomefreak> k
[09:33] <asac> bug 76608 is master for
[09:33] <asac> [@g_timeout_dispatch]  [@nsAppShell::Run] 
[09:33] <gnomefreak> k
[09:45] <gnomefreak> asac: what do you want to do with bug 85857. you said in bug to mark as dupe of filepicker if he didnt respond
[09:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85857 in firefox "firefox crashes when attempting to save video links" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85857
[09:50] <asac> y go ahead
[09:50] <asac> close or dupe
[09:51] <asac> whatever gives more karma :)
[09:55] <gnomefreak> lol neither anymore
[09:59] <gnomefreak> is bug 86362 a masterbug?
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86362 in firefox "firefox crash [@gtk_xtbin_new] " [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86362
[10:00] <asac> lp down
[10:00] <asac> internal error 500
[10:00] <gnomefreak> ah
[10:00] <asac> yes
[10:01] <asac> but please
[10:01] <asac> use
[10:01] <asac> [@gtk_xtbin_new]  [@nsPluginNativeWindowGtk2::CallSetWindow]  [@nsObjectFrame::InstantiatePlugin] 
[10:02] <asac> thanks
[10:02] <gnomefreak> k
[10:02] <asac> please assign to me and move to confirmed stage mark mt-upstream ... and try to find duplicates :)
[10:02] <asac> this looks interesting ;)
[10:03] <asac> as i have worked a good bunch on plugin code because of the restyle_issues
[10:03] <asac> whch we now will resolve on totem side
[10:04] <gnomefreak> ok time for me to get ready to pick aunt up from work be back later or tomorrow
[10:04] <asac> ty
[10:04] <asac> bye
[10:04] <gnomefreak> yw bye
[10:05] <asac> i move it back to needs info as we definitly should try to get some testcase from hopefully some duplicate reports
[10:05] <asac> guess has to to with flash plugin ... but probably a mozilla problem anyways
[10:05] <asac> cu tomorrow
[10:23] <gnomefreak> council mail sent.
[10:34] <AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: yea
[10:36] <AlexLatchford> anyone else not receiving any ubuntu lists mail?
[10:38] <Admiral_Chicago> just got one
[10:51] <asac> i guess i get them
[10:52] <asac> though load has never been really high on lists i am subscribed to
[10:52] <asac> of yes ... ubuntu-bugs ... i am still getting some mails for that list ... i unsubscribed 4 days ago or so
[10:53] <Admiral_Chicago> anyone have an idea how to list the number of installable packages?
[10:57] <asac> installable?
[10:57] <asac> hmm
[10:57] <asac> grep in Packages.gz ?
[10:57] <Admiral_Chicago> 20818 according to Synaptic
[10:57] <asac> yes probably you can do
[10:57] <asac> that
[10:57] <asac> :)
[10:58] <Admiral_Chicago> there has to be a CLI to do it. i hate GUIs for installing packages
[10:59] <asac> yes probably grep in Packages.gz
[10:59] <asac> should be somewhere in /var/...
[11:00] <asac> maybe there is a higher level CLI program ... but have no idea
[11:00] <Admiral_Chicago> i'd like to know how many are in main specifically, then universe
[11:02] <asac> e.g.
[11:02] <asac> grep -c ^Package: /var/lib/apt/lists/de.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_edgy-updates_main_binary-amd64_Packages
[11:02] <asac> should do the trick
[11:02] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: just use the right Packages file
[11:03] <dfarning> asac, are the retraces looking better?
[11:03] <asac> which ones?
[11:03] <asac> in general? or some specific?
[11:03] <dfarning> well in general is -retrace meeting your need better?
[11:04] <asac> hmmm
[11:04] <dfarning> that didnot sound positive;(
[11:04] <asac> can't tell ... luckily usually i only see good results :)
[11:04] <asac> so i cannot say ... ask gnomefreak and hjmf who do most of retraces
[11:04] <dfarning> from your perspective what still need work
[11:04] <asac> definitly a backtrace db
[11:04] <dfarning> i'll follow up with them
[11:05] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: i'll keep write that down
[11:05] <asac> that automatically matches duplicates
[11:05] <asac> and shows you all bug reporter messages on one page
[11:05] <asac> so you might identify how to track an issue down (e.g. extract a testcase)
[11:05] <asac> dfarning: further ... privacy issues
[11:06] <asac> people should either be warned that report might contain private data
[11:06] <asac> or original reports should go over https to some trusted maschine that automatically retraces
[11:06] <asac> imo it would be best to do retraces right when report is captured
[11:07] <asac> so on user maschine befor he submits
[11:07] <dfarning> Linspire and guadalinux also had the same conserns
[11:07] <asac> argument against symbolization on user maschine was a bandwidth thing
[11:08] <asac> but at least for firefox, the core dump is probably more data than all dbgsym packages
[11:08] <dfarning> the main problem with doing the retrace on the reporters machine is the hug number of dl needed
[11:08] <asac> hmm
[11:08] <asac> not that much i guess
[11:08] <asac> setup a proper cache then it will at max be double packages then normal
[11:08] <asac> whereas -dbgsym packages are smaller than the normal one
[11:09] <asac> of course releasing in ~pitti on people.ubuntu.com would not be feasible
[11:09] <asac> should go on mirrors
[11:09] <dfarning> pitti repo is getting huge
[11:09] <asac> yes
[11:09] <dfarning> as we ask him to retain stuff
[11:10] <asac> how much percentage of mirror size has it?
[11:10] <asac> that would not be needed
[11:10] <asac> hmmm
[11:10] <dfarning> if triagers see the retrace are there still privacy issues
[11:10] <asac> yes ... but user can read retrace and look (in normal case)
[11:10] <asac> so its not as critical
[11:10] <asac> the core dump contains all
[11:11] <asac> stacktrace is just a tiny fraction
[11:11] <dfarning> was wonder how much of the problem will go away when retrace on handled in the data center
[11:11] <asac> don't know
[11:11] <asac> i still don't see this happen
[11:11] <asac> but who knows
[11:12] <dfarning> martin claims he is close;)
[11:12] <asac> to what?
[11:12] <asac> automatically retracing?
[11:12] <asac> i hope so
[11:12] <asac> :)
[11:12] <dfarning> getting retraces on service
[11:12] <dfarning> That guy is great
[11:13] <asac> i think we should expect some disrupting happenings in the beginning :)
[11:13] <asac> but i guess they will work out nicely
[11:13] <dfarning> New service rollouts are always perfect on linux;)
[11:13] <asac> next step would be to add data to trace db instead of bts
[11:13] <asac> its only bloat
[11:13] <asac> we can then pick top-crashers and open bugs to track them on our own
[11:14] <dfarning> I think that is farther away
[11:14] <dfarning> still debate over necessity of crash db
[11:14] <dfarning> no one else seem to be getting hit as hard as firefox;(
[11:14] <asac> for packages with huge amount of different crashes like firefox
[11:14] <asac> its important
[11:14] <asac> other might not care
[11:15] <asac> if they just get hit by a flood of duplicates
[11:15] <asac> of one or two issues
[11:15] <asac> yeah ... thats why we are lead users
[11:15] <asac> and we are here to make launchpad the best service in world
[11:15] <asac> i think a good crash db is the right way
[11:15] <dfarning> darn right
[11:16] <asac> can be provided as service to downstream
[11:16] <asac> to easily get the big picture
[11:16] <asac> and more input for rare crashes
[11:16] <dfarning> agree
[11:17] <asac> at best that crash db gets a read-only integration to talkback as well :)
[11:17] <asac> but in the long run upstream releases will probably die
[11:17] <asac> with distribution package installs already much higher than official downloads
[11:17] <dfarning> I you don't mind I will log off and summarize your ideas, and see who we can get to buy in.
[11:17] <asac> dfarning: please wait
[11:18] <dfarning> oh sit more
[11:18] <asac> i am preparing a report to launchpad lead
[11:18] <asac> on request by mark
[11:18] <dfarning> what is that
[11:18] <asac> so maybe don't get things running one by one
[11:18] <dfarning> s/sit/shit/
[11:18] <asac> we should find all things we need and put them into one document
[11:18] <asac> then we can send one mail which will get highest attention
[11:18] <asac> to those that can decide
[11:19] <dfarning> for mt related needs/wants
[11:20] <asac> yes
[11:20] <asac> its
[11:20] <asac> mark things we as heavy load users can provide valuable input on how to improve things
[11:20] <asac> s/things/thinks/
[11:21] <dfarning> is that to elliot or matthew?
[11:21] <asac> i don't remember
[11:21] <asac> i have to look up
[11:21] <asac> in mail
[11:21] <asac> its been a few weeks
[11:21] <asac> :)
[11:22] <dfarning> ar you going to get a chance to work on it it the next few days?
[11:22] <asac> you can help ... we can setup a wiki where we aggregate what we need
[11:23] <asac> dfarning: you can try to get people to convince that they need a crash db
[11:23] <asac> anyway
[11:23] <dfarning> ;)
[11:23] <asac> if it works through normal channels fine :)
[11:24] <asac> but as you said that people appear somehoe against this
[11:24] <asac> i thought it would be better to push through other channels
[11:24] <asac> any ... summarizing my ideas is good :)
[11:24] <dfarning> not against...just can't figure out how to make it work easily
[11:24] <asac> what?
[11:24] <asac> ah
[11:24] <asac> ok
[11:25] <asac> yes
[11:25] <dfarning> the crash db
[11:25] <asac> it requires resources
[11:25] <asac> of course
[11:25] <dfarning> to many man hours
[11:25] <dfarning> Ok i will sumarrize your thought tonight and post them on a wiki by tommorow
[11:26] <asac> exactly ... so lets summarize the reasoning and why its important and how it help downstream collaboration
[11:26] <asac> to empasize our position
[11:26] <dfarning> this is a ball I would like to get rolling
[11:26] <asac> thats good
[11:26] <dfarning> ty
[11:26] <asac> yeah but we need make the ball a high quality one with decent weight :)
[11:27] <dfarning> I'll try but Alex may need to check my grammer;(
[11:28] <asac> hehe
[11:28] <dfarning> bye
[11:28] <asac> name it braindump page about malone improvements
[11:28] <asac> :)
[11:28] <asac> so no grammar is needed
[11:28] <asac> bye
[11:32] <Admiral_Chicago> fast work on the ML