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mooeywhen a bug is nominated to be fixed in dapper, where in launchpad does it show?12:26
crimsunin the bug itself as a dapper task12:31
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sabdflmooey: also, on the dapper bugs listing12:46
sabdflbugs.lp.n/ubuntu/dapper iirc12:47
mooeythanks sabdfl, crimsun 12:49
mooeyin /ubuntu/dapper is the first place i looked, but i can't find it listed there12:49
mooeybut it has only been nominated for dapper12:49
mooeynot accepted? so i guess thats correct12:49
mooeyin which case my question is: where are bugs that are nominated for a release tracked in launchpad?12:50
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davieyHi, can somebody help me using bzr?01:07
lifelesswhats up?01:07
davieyright, i have made a branch, it's linked with a project01:07
davieybut i cant upload01:08
davieywhen i 'branch' i get 0 revisions made01:08
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davieylifeless, any idea?01:09
lifelessdaviey: what bzr version are you using ?01:10
daviey 0.14.001:10
lifelesswhen you say you cant upload, what happens when you try ?01:10
davieywait 101:11
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davieylifeless, when i "bzr commit" nano appears01:17
lifelessdaviey: its asking for a commit message01:17
lifelessdaviey: you should type in a message, save the file, and exit.01:17
davieyoh, i'll do that01:17
davieyokay, they are commited01:20
davieyshouldn't bzr push know where to upload it?01:22
jameshdaviey: if you've previously pushed the branch, it will remember that01:23
jameshif not, no.01:23
jameshso you'd need to run "bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/product/branch01:25
jamesh(whatever name you want to give the branch)01:25
davieywe are cooking on gas!01:26
daviey1 revision made.... but why if i sftp into the launchpad server, does it not show up?01:27
jameshwhat do you mean?01:27
jameshnote that only the .bzr/ directory is uploaded via SFTP01:28
davieyif i, nautilus sftp://davewalker@bazaar.launchpad.net/~XXX   then i can see the branch folders - but not the stuff i just pushed01:28
jameshdaviey: is there a .bzr/ directory in the branch's directory?01:29
jameshit won't show on a normal "ls", since it is hidden01:29
jamesh(as are all dot files)01:29
davieylocal or remote?01:29
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davieythere is a bzr01:29
spivdaviey: show hidden files01:29
spivdaviey: (Ctrl-H in nautilus)01:30
davieydone that, but only shows a .bzr folder01:30
spivdaviey: right, that's the branch.01:30
davieyoh, i thought it might show HEAD in the folder01:30
jameshdaviey: that is all that people need to pull your branch01:30
spivYou can do things like "bzr info" on that URL.01:31
spivAnd branch from it.01:31
spivBut it's not a checkout.01:31
davieydoesn't svn just seem simpler?01:31
jameshdaviey: Launchpad has already scanned the branch here: https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/mythbuntu/devel01:32
davieyHow did you know what project it was?01:32
jameshdaviey: I looked at https://code.launchpad.net/~davewalker and picked the branch with the most recent commit01:33
davieyjamesh, i can't use 'beta'01:33
davieycheeky chap01:33
jameshdaviey: remove the ".beta" bit01:33
davieydone :P01:33
jameshdaviey: if you want to look at the beta testers, try and join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers01:34
jameshthat is, "look at the beta site"01:34
jameshyou'll get an email asking you to agree not to post screenshots, and then get added to the team01:34
spivdaviey: SVN is the same, if you look at the repository it doesn't hold a working tree of HEAD01:34
davieyjamesh, i've applied - thanks01:35
spivdaviey: instead what usually happens is there's a webserver that knows to dynamically show the files/directories of a checkout if you access it with a non-SVN client.01:35
spivdaviey: Or there's a dedicated "ViewSVN" site users go to01:35
davieyspiv, i see01:35
spivdaviey: we have a system to do this for bazaar.launchpad.net in testing at the moment.01:36
jameshwe just need to make it suck less01:36
davieythats great!01:36
spivAnd jamesh is the lucky person that's been making it suck less so far :)01:37
jamesh"Serbian vampire hunters prevent Milosevic come-back" <- I wonder if danilos was involved01:37
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UbugtuNew bug: #90062 in malone "The 'affects' e-mail command should use the new path scheme" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9006203:50
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UbugtuNew bug: #90309 in launchpad "poexport-queue.txt test disabled" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9030907:45
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UbugtuNew bug: #39292 in rosetta "Rosetta nearly unusable in w3m" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3929209:25
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UbugtuNew bug: #90322 in rosetta "Add human readable formulas for Plural forms" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9032209:50
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UbugtuNew bug: #90329 in malone "Comment form for duplicate bug reports should warn about their duplicate status" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9032910:20
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henoI'm getting several Oopses in a row on https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu today11:06
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Tomcat_Hi. What's up with Launchpad? I get timeouts all the time in malone.11:07
henoperhaps such a very common page should be cached for a minute or so?11:07
henoTomcat_: is that with the beta or the standard interface?11:09
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Tomcat_Standard interface.11:09
Tomcat_Now it works... weird.11:09
henook, thanks. I'm getting much the same result with beta11:09
henoyeah, it's been patchy for me too11:10
Tomcat_Mostly with stuff that I would say is compute-intensive, like "all Ubuntu bugs" or "enter new bug"... not at all for smaller things like "all evolution bugs".11:10
Tomcat_Anyway, worked long enough. Thanks. :)11:11
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BjornTheno: that page doesn't time out for me atm. do you have an oops id handy?11:11
henoBjornT: yep. OOPS-431BA12911:12
BjornTcool, i'll take a look at what's causing the time outs.11:12
henoBjornT: it's been about half and half working/oopsing this morning11:12
carlosBjornT: I got a time out too11:13
BjornTcarlos: what's the oops id? good to have another one to compare with.11:14
carlosBjornT: https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2007-03-07/BC15711:14
carlosBjornT: although I don't see why should it time out with that query...11:14
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BjornTcarlos: yeah, your oops looks really strange. should be that it's waiting for some lock or something.11:16
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ddaajml: ping?11:25
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jmlddaa: hi11:33
ddaajml: how does this page look to you? https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk11:34
jmlddaa: alright. the fonts are too small :)11:35
ddaamh right...11:35
jmlddaa: and there should be a bigger gap between each revision11:35
ddaaActuall I think the spacing is right11:35
ddaabut the use of h3 makes revision titles hard to read11:35
ddaaseems to me that hN tags should be only use for structural page elements11:36
ddaaI am not sure how to change the layout practically, but I'd like the revision lines to be in text color11:36
jmlddaa: a bit earlier today, I was thinking of using the same styles as the bug comments11:37
jml(https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/48064 for a random example)11:37
jmlbut that might make the page too long11:38
jmlddaa: I'll discuss options with mpt tomorrow.11:38
ddaaI agree with both points you're making :)11:38
jmlddaa: so, a part of me wants to ask you a bunch of questions about bug branch linking and the scanner11:38
jmlddaa: but the other, stronger part wants to have a drink and watch mindless TV shows11:39
ddaawell, we do not often have the opportunity to chat :)11:39
ddaaI suggest you get a drink and have a mindless discussion about bug branch linking :)11:40
ddaamindless TV shows are bad for you brain, at least watch some good SciFi TV show.11:40
jmlwell, I meant Heroes specifically.11:41
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ddaadunno that one11:41
ddaarandom comment11:42
ddaaI'd like the bug comment style to change11:42
ddaato look less like a web forum11:42
ddaathat would help prevent people asking questions about bugs using web forum terminology...11:43
ddaawhich does not happen often, but irritates me terribly11:43
ddaain a similar vein, it might not be a good idea to use this style for branches...11:43
ddaathen people would ask how to reply to a thread when they mean commit to a branch...11:44
jmlbzr ci -m 'rofl!!@!'11:44
lifelesslolzor roflcopter11:45
ddaanow I'm going to have nightmares!11:45
jmllook on the bright side, if you can't sleep, you are more likely to be around tomorrow morning :)11:46
ddaaI've been very successful at waking up on morning this week.11:47
ddaabeen waking up at 7am since monday11:47
jmlI meant my morning :)11:47
ddaata, your tz is wrong11:47
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ddaause more coffee11:47
jmlsomeone should move australia into the north atlantic.11:48
ddaayou'd have to strip out all the deserts11:49
ddaaotherwise, I'm not sure it would actually fit in the nort atlantic11:49
jmlif I had a globe, I would consult it.11:49
mwhjml: http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/australia.shtml ?11:49
jmlsee! it'd fit11:52
ddaasee, Tasmania is trampling some islands off the coast of Canada!11:52
ddaajust leave Tasmania behind11:52
ddaait's useless anyway11:52
jmlddaa: it's attached.11:52
ddaait also looks like Perth is squashing the Canary islands11:52
ddaathat's no good11:52
ddaaOTOH... since those island are mostly full of German and Danes, it's maybe not such a big loss11:53
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ddaaApologies to German folks and fabbione's wife.11:55
jmlddaa: so, I've incorporated most of your comments into the bug-branch spec11:55
jmlddaa: and I've attached questions to the comments I have questions about (sensible, no?)11:56
ddaaI'll be coming back to comment on this :)11:56
jmlexcellent. so if I see you tomorrow morning, we'll have plenty to talk about :)11:56
jmlI'll try to start earlier than usual.11:56
jmlg'night all12:02
UbugtuNew bug: #90352 in launchpad "Deleting an attachment should remove the LibaryFileAlias at the same time" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9035212:15
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UbugtuNew bug: #90354 in launchpad "Bug 62453 shows up in Launchpad's guided file bug form as 'most frequently reported'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9035412:20
ddaaIs there a known problem with irc.canonical.com?12:24
ddaaI can no longer connect to it.12:24
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Ngddaa: could you try again on port 8080?12:26
Ngddaa: if that works, could you please call proxad and shout at them? maria has the same issue :/12:27
ddaaFixes it12:28
ddaadarn, there was this problem before with smtp/ssl12:29
ddaaThis ISP is not exactly the kind where you expect to find a human to answer you.12:29
ddaaBut it's cheap, Linux-friendly, and got good service.12:29
Ngddaa: I suspect they're trying to be helpful and interfering with that port to stop malware12:30
Ngbut it's pretty annoying12:30
ddaayeah, I'd like to have a setting "yes I fucking now what I'm doing, I'm not running a windows zombie system, please do not muck with my internet connection, kthxbye"12:31
ddaait's the sort of thing I'd expect them to provide, with an appropriately obscure user interface12:32
ddaaor maybe using browser sniffing...12:32
ddaa"deny if browser runs on windows" :)12:33
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caravenaoops! http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9071/02:02
UbugtuNew bug: #90359 in liferea (main) "liferea 1.2.7 no german translation (dup-of: 78885)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9035902:05
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BjornTreviewer meeting in 10 minutes02:51
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BjornTtime for this week's eu/us reviewer meeting03:04
BjornT== Agenda ==03:04
BjornT* Roll call * Next meeting * Queue status.03:04
BjornTwho's here?03:04
BjornT== Next meeting ==03:07
BjornTnext meeting will 14th march, 1400 UTC, any objections?03:07
BjornT== Queue status ==03:08
BjornTthere are currently 15 open reviews, which is two more than on Monday.03:08
BjornTjamesh, SteveA, and salgado have branches that are more than 10 days old03:09
flacostemy queue is empty03:09
BjornT5 branches ar slightly above the 2-day limit, the rest are ok.03:09
flacosteso feel free to offload some of them on me03:09
salgadoyeah, but I need to point that the one on my queue was assigned to me when it was 6 or 7 days old already03:09
salgado(I'll finish it today, though)03:10
flacostelast week assignments were kind of late indeed03:10
BjornTsalgado: oh, right. i think that branch was discussed at the last meeting, ddaa change the name of the branch, but not the date, so it's incorrect.03:10
BjornTflacoste: my queue is quite long. how about taking the two small ones from ddaa?03:11
flacosteno problem03:11
BjornTthanks flacoste 03:12
BjornTsalgado: has jamesh reviewed your ui-fixes branch yet?03:13
salgadoBjornT, yep03:13
BjornTcool. so the queue looks quite good then, actually.03:14
BjornT== Other business ==03:14
BjornTany other business?03:14
flacostenot from me03:15
salgadoyes, this should be the eu/americas reviewers meeting instead of the "eu/us" one. kthxbye03:15
flacostethere is nobody from the us here03:16
BjornTus, americas, it's all the same to me :) but ok.03:17
BjornTok, meeting ended. thanks for coming.03:18
salgadothanks BjornT 03:18
flacostethanks BjornT03:19
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statikquiet around here03:59
statikkiko saves the day with 3 letters!04:01
kikostatik, will you follow up on fabbione's suggestions? I am overloaded :-(04:01
statikkiko: yes, I will04:02
UbugtuNew bug: #90397 in launchpad-bazaar "mirroring script needs newer bzrlib" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9039704:10
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UbugtuNew bug: #90403 in launchpad "False timeout failure in test_adapter.txt" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9040304:35
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slytherinI am getting too many OOPS on LP today. Mostly for search. Is it problem with beta interface?04:37
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newz2000salgado: hey, do you have any idea if/when the cdmirror-rss change can be released to the non-beta website?04:57
salgadonewz2000, you mean, the addition of the country code?04:57
salgadonewz2000, do you need that for the new website?04:59
newz2000salgado: Well, the website can release without it, but the auto-mirror detection code needs it, and that needs to be done in the next week or so.05:00
newz2000I have a tedious work-around available if it can't go live though05:00
salgadonewz2000, I've already requested a cherry pick for that change, so it's likely that it'll reach production this week05:01
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btse@now timezone05:02
newz2000salgado: ok, that'd great. I'm really looking forward to seeing this code work05:02
btse@now cet05:02
UbugtuCurrent time in CET: March 07 2007, 17:02:2905:02
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btse@now utc05:06
UbugtuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: March 07 2007, 16:06:1305:06
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dholbachdid you notive a rising number of OOPSes today? http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs oopses for me every time05:14
pochudholbach: oops!05:15
kikoyes, everybody is noticing these05:16
kikooh, even not on beta?05:16
seb128that's not on beta05:16
dholbachno, not beta05:16
pochukiko: beta for me05:16
pochuhaven't tried non-beta05:16
kikothis is terrible05:17
pochuseb128, dholbach: have you disabled the redirection?05:17
kikoI need to rush out for a bit, but let me get hold of that when I'm back05:17
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Rinchenping SteveA for awareness05:44
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SteveAhi Rinchen 05:53
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=== thumper yawns
thumpermrevell: this thing of yours is in a few minutes isn't it?05:58
mrevellthumper:  certainly is05:58
ddaamrevell: where's the agenda?05:58
theCorewell, it seems I won't have the time to stay for the meeting05:59
mrevellddaa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadUserMeeting/2007-03-0705:59
mrevelltheCore: sorry to hear that05:59
mrevelltheCore: I'll put a report up on the wiki and will announce it on launchpad-users05:59
theCoreso, I better say now what I wanted to say06:00
mrevelltheCore: ok06:00
mrevelltheCore: Wanna private message me and I'll raise it for you06:00
mrevellWelcome to the first Launchpda users' meeting!06:00
statikhurrah, users!06:01
mrevellHere's the agenda:06:01
mrevell    *06:01
mrevell      Welcome06:01
mrevell    *06:01
mrevell      Agenda06:01
mrevell    *06:01
mrevell      Introduction to the Launchpad developers are who present06:01
mrevell    *06:01
mrevell      Invitation to beta team06:01
mrevell    *06:01
mrevell      Annoyance of the week06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      User questions06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      Next meeting06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      Welcome06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      Agenda06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      Introduction to the Launchpad developers are who present06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      Invitation to beta team06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      Annoyance of the week06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      User questions06:02
mrevell    *06:02
mrevell      Next meeting06:02
mrevellThis is a chance for Launchpad's users to ask questions of and make suggestions to the Launchpad team.06:02
mrevellSo, if you're a Launchpad developer, please say "hi" to let us know you're here06:02
mrevellThanks guys.06:03
mrevellIniviation to beta team06:03
ddaaAren't we supposed to be introduced to?06:04
mrevellThe Launchpad beta is well under way and is open to anyone who wants to have a role in shaping the future of Launchpad.06:04
theCoreok, gotta go, see ya all06:04
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mrevellIf you'd like to join the Launchpad beta, you can sign up at:06:04
mrevellddaa: Not sure what you mean06:05
ddaaThe agenda reads "Introduction to the Launchpad developers are who present"06:05
ddaaignore me if I'm just causing trouble06:05
mrevellddaa: :) You said hello.06:06
mrevellddaa: If that's not enough let's discuss it later :)06:06
mrevellMoving onto "Annoyance of the week"06:06
mrevellEach week, I'd like to gather input on what has frustrated you recently about Launchpad.06:06
mrevellI'll then take it to the Launchpad developers meeting, which happens each Thursday.06:07
henothe beta is veeeery slow ...06:07
mrevellSo, if you'd like to report something that has annoyed or frustrated you about Launchpad, please tell us now.06:07
heno(my annoyance of the week)06:07
mrevellheno: Thanks.06:07
mthaddonheno: slower than the non-beta?06:08
henomthaddon: yes, very06:08
henoit can take 10 seconds for a random bug page to load06:08
mthaddonI haven't played much with the non-beta recently, so can't comment, but that's interesting...06:08
henonon-beta might be 1-2 secs06:08
mrevellI haven't noticed beta be that slow.06:08
=== mwh_ is now known as mwh
Kuhrscherthe current status of the upstream translations import for Feisty annoyed me06:09
henoI'm actually surprised that the LP devs are not feeling this pain too06:09
henoit's a common topic in the distro meetings06:09
ddaait actually seems to me that it got less slow recently... but maybe I just got used to it.06:09
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heno(see the logs from last week :) )06:10
mrevellAre other people here noticing extreme slowness from beta?06:10
salgadotoday we seem to be experiencing some problems with our database server, which means the slowness won't be limited to beta06:10
henoI'll check with SteveA tomorrow at the meeting how his profiling is going06:10
mrevellKuhrscher: Thanks, we've got a question about that coming up later.06:10
mrevellheno: Thanks.06:10
thumperI do, but I just thought it may have been that I'm in NZ :)06:11
mrevellOkay, any other points of annoyance that you'd like to raise?06:11
henoif we set up some instructions for how to do those, I'm sure others would help06:11
salgado(and I have to admit we're having quite a few timeouts today, probably because of that issue)06:11
mrevellheno: Set up profiling?06:11
henothe ooopses today are a separate issue I think06:11
=== jenda waves
henomrevell: instructions on how to use firebug sensibly and collect logs, or whatever it does06:12
jendaguys - I know it's slightly OT, but any idea what's up with the CC elections?06:12
salgadoheno, yes, it is. that's what I said06:12
=== jenda doesn't know where to ask
mrevellheno: Right, thanks, noted.06:12
mrevelljenda: We're having a Launchpad users' meeting atm, you're welcome to join in.06:12
jendasorry to barge in like that ;)06:13
mrevellOkay, if there aren't any other annoyances that people would like to raise, we'll move on :)06:13
mrevelljenda: No worries :)06:13
mrevell       User questions06:13
mrevellThroughout the week, Launchpad users have added their questions to the meeting agenda.06:14
mrevellHere's the first.06:14
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mrevellIt will be GREAT to have upstream GNOME distribution translation ability!Will we benefit this in a near future? Vladimer Sichinava GNOME/Ubuntu translator.06:14
mrevelldanilos: Is that something you can answer?06:14
mrevellAnd is Vladimer here today?06:15
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mrevellOkay, I'll seek an answer and give it in the next user meeting.06:15
danilosmrevell: I'd like to provide that as well since I am also a GTP spokesperson and Serbian GNOME team coordinator, but it depends on other priorities (it's definitely something we want to have, but we can't set a date on it)06:15
mrevelldanilos: Ah, thanks.06:16
mrevelldanilos: It appears Vladimer isn't in the meeting, so hopefully he'll see the post-meeting report.06:16
mrevellMoving onto the next question.06:16
mrevellI'm not happy about the fact that there has never been a fixed date for Ubuntu translation opening. Although I respect Rosetta developers, I feel bad about us having less than a month to prepare the Feisty translations. We (the Czech team) have already found a number of regressions from Edgy and it will be difficult to fix all those bugs and make Ubuntu better translated in time. I often have a feeling that although Ubu06:16
mrevellntu prides itself with our translations, we don't get much credit and respect within the Launchpad paid developers/Canonical. Can this issue be better resolved in the future? -- MartinBhm06:16
mrevellmhb: That's your question, I believe.06:17
=== mhb is Martin Bhm
mhbyes, it is06:17
mrevellmhb: The Launchpad team and Canonical do greatly value the Ubuntu translators. I believe that the process for opening translations for Feisty+1 will be smoother.06:18
=== carlos is also a launchpad developer and is around (sorry, I was distracted...)
henoPerhaps we should do an informal impact study on this kind of thing: what is more disruptive having Launchpad down for a day or delaying translation import until it's almost too late? This issue will likely be fixes properly at some point, but similar dilemmas could come up later06:19
mhbmrevell: I think there was the same belief for feisty as the edgy opening was also relatively late06:19
mrevellmhb: You say don't feel the Launchpad team gives translators much credit or respect. How could we improve that impression?06:19
carlosmhb: the idea is to have a fixed date for open it, but Edgy and Feisty had some technical problems involved06:19
carlosthat delayed the process much more than expected06:19
KuhrscherI hope it would also be possible to lock the translation until all imports are done.06:19
carlosKuhrscher: there is already a bug to do that, yes06:20
Kuhrschercarlos: nice to hear06:20
mhbmrevell: we can't make any changes to the timetable, so creating one for the opening &really make it happen at the fixed date would be great06:20
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mhbmrevell: we can't say "there has been so little time, give us more"06:20
mhbmrevell: and I think other teams should not have that privilege either06:21
mrevellmhb: I'm sorry that the Feisty translations opening date has been held up, giving you little time.06:21
KuhrscherCould we introduce the next release some time to check the imports for bugs _before_ the translation is opened?06:22
carlosKuhrscher: it was not a 'bug' problem06:22
carlosbut a performance problem06:22
mrevellmhb: We do want to keep to the dates for opening translations and I'm sure that, having found out more about what can go wrong, Feisty+1 will be much improved.06:23
Kuhrschercarlos: The last two releases there had been a lot of failed imports...06:23
carlosmhb: Well, that's a problem, yes. But we keep releasing translations updates even after final release. It's not the solution to the problem, of course, but It mitigates a bit the problem of being late or the lack of time before final release06:23
Kuhrscheror wrong templates...06:23
mhbcarlos: AFAIK, the updates were delayed a lot, too06:23
mrevellmhb: I'm not sure what you mean about teams having priveleges to ask for extra time.06:24
danilosKuhrscher: it might also be due to incompatible change in GNU gettext msgfmt (a lot of failed imports I see is due to this)06:24
mhbmrevell: I meant that the Rosetta folks can say that, because they don't have a fixed date for the opening06:24
carlosKuhrscher: most of the time is a bug in the package not in the import process itself06:24
danilosKuhrscher: (msgfmt was changed to require '%d' in all plural form messages with 0.15, and earlier versions allowed eg. singular form not to have it)06:24
mhbmrevell: can you or someone else make sure that the "Rosetta opening" date will be set in the Feisty+1 release schedule?06:25
mhbmrevell: and that the Rosetta folks start testing early enough so that they can open the translation up at that date?06:25
KuhrscherSure, but it would be best to start the translation process only if all those problems are identified and fixed.06:25
carlosmhb: the updates should be more or less done monthly, that's why we have daily snapshots. I think there are some delays from time to time, but I know Martin tries to do one update each month first Monday of each month06:26
mhbcarlos: as far as I remember there were close to zero Edgy translations updates before January (that's what some of the translator said, I am not sure about this)06:27
mhbcarlos: having a fixed date early enough and really open translations at that date matters more for me, though06:28
carlosmhb: I don't think it was so late.. let me check...06:29
mrevellmhb: As I understand, the improvements we've made to Launchpad will mean that we can open Feisty+1 translations as soon as Feisty+1 has created in Launchpad. That should mean we can give a date for translations opening and that it will give you much more time.06:30
carlosmhb: For the Spanish one, there were updates almost every month since release...06:30
carlosmrevell: well, we still need to implement some changes to be able to do that without turning launchpad off06:31
KuhrscherPlease start this translating period after the UpstreamVersionFreeze.06:31
carlosmrevell: but the idea is that one06:31
mrevellcarlos: Thanks for the clarification.06:32
KuhrscherJust to avoid interference with the upstream translators...06:32
mhbcarlos: can you do it fast enough then?06:32
mhbcarlos: and really set the date in the Feisty+1ReleaseSchedule and open it then?06:32
mhbwith more than a month for us?06:32
ddaaShutting down launchpad for a day is not really an option, since we want to attract upstreams that may not be interested in translations06:33
carlosmhb: not really fast enough, but without turning launchpad down06:33
ddaabut may be interested in bzr, or the bug tracking system06:33
carloswhich is the main problem until now, how to schedule that06:33
carlosto avoid problems like what ddaa is pointing 06:33
mhbcarlos: that's not much of a assurance for us06:33
mhbcarlos: what do you mean by fast enough?06:34
mhbfixed dates is what would help a lot06:34
carlosmhb: what's your ideal date to do the opening?06:34
henoddaa: right, but not delivering translation imports several times in a row will also leave a bad track record, which will also reach the ears of those upstreams06:34
danilosmhb: with 'not fast enough' carlos was thinking that the process will take a while (like a week when you'll be unable to do any translations), but we won't have to shut launchpad down completely06:34
henoIt will stay on mailing list and IRC logs and can be googled forever :)06:35
carlosanyway, as Kuhrscher points, I don't think we should open translations 6 months before release...06:35
carlosso it should not be a problem06:35
henoone day of downtime may not be a bad alternative06:35
carlosheno: believe me, it is06:35
mhbcarlos: perhaps after the DebianImportFreeze06:35
danilosalso, you guys should consider one more problem with opening translations too early: you'll have to repeat work you do in feisty and feisty+1 unless we do the copying later on as well (we've designed it so we can do it, but I don't think we've done it so far)06:36
ddaabut presumably, disabling just translations for one week, would be less of a problem06:36
ddaathe issue is separation of concerns, people who do not care about the translation should not see their version control system server go offline because of them.06:36
carlosmhb: UBuntu's wiki page is being slow here06:36
carlosmhb: so I cannot check the schedule...06:37
danilosmhb: I am at least not that well into Ubuntu schedule and timeline, so it'd help if you gave exact dates, relative dates inside 6-month cycle or point me to a page where I can read on them :)06:37
carlosfor the case of Feisty, when is that?06:37
mhbDecember 21st06:37
carlosthat's 4 months before release, isn't it?06:38
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mhbcarlos: well, yes06:38
mhbcarlos: the second important date for Ubuntu release cycle is 2 months after that06:38
carlosit would interfere with GNOME upstream translations, but that's doable06:38
carlosthat gives us two months after opening a distro release so the process even being slow will be done at that time06:39
mhbcarlos: it should happen some time before the FeatureFreeze, because that's relatively late in the process06:40
carlosas we will be 'hidding' the imports until it's done, we could start the opening at any time we want once Launchpad knows about that new distro release06:40
carlosmhb: I'm talking about DebianImportFreeze06:40
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carlosthe fact that we delay it until FeatureFreeze or not it up to you (the translators)06:41
carloss/it up/is up/06:41
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mhbcarlos: I'm for opening it up as soon as possible06:41
carlosis that compromise enough?06:41
daniloscarlos: do we plan to copy distrorelease to distrorelease+1 contributions even after distrorelease+1 is opened? if we don't, translators will have to do a lot of duplicate work if we open it too soon06:42
mhbcarlos: sure, 3-4 months is enough time, I believe ... but please write that date in the Feisty+1ReleaseSchedule so we can count on it06:42
danilosmhb: ^^^ (iow, we want to schedule such copying as well)06:42
carlosdanilos: if we are able to do the opening without turning launchpad offline, that's doable too06:42
daniloscarlos: I know it's doable, but if we've got a date for one thing, we need a date for another as well06:43
carlosdanilos: well, I would test how much time it would take and maybe, schedule it to be done once per month or something like that06:44
carlosbut nothing we could schedule right now06:44
carlosthe opening is something we could put in the schedule as a way to get the compromise of getting it done then06:44
mhbI guess that's answered, then.06:45
mrevellmhb: Thanks for your question.06:45
mrevellmhb: If you'd like to discuss it further, don't forget we have the launchpad-users mailing list.06:45
mhband thank you for the answers06:45
mrevellNext questions also relates to Rosetta and is from mhb. We're running out of time, though, so please lets make the answers as quick as possible.06:45
mrevellOne of the other things that make me believe Ubuntu translators and translations are being rather neglected is the fact that Launchpad/Rosetta has failed to implement a simple search tool for the translations. Without it Rosetta seems to be rather clumsy for fixing bugs and typos. As far as I know, the Launchpad/Rosetta developers are aware of this but almost since day 0 but still they haven't managed to implement it. T06:46
mrevellhey often claim it is very hard to implement but I think the lack of pressure from the community is another factor. I hope we can raise our voices louder so that even the paid developers know we really need it sooner than for a feisty+2 or even later. A fixed date for it would be nice, as it seems there are little fixed dates in the development process. -- MartinBhm06:46
mrevellSo, the question is: When can we have searchable translations in Launchpad?06:46
carlosdanilos: that one is for you ;-)06:46
kikomrevell, you can search using google, perhaps.06:46
kikowe now allow google to index our translation pages06:47
carlosmhb: just as a brief answer, google has been indexing us since a January06:47
carlosso you should be able to use that as a workaround (that's why we did that change)06:47
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mrevellmhb: Do you want to try with Google and report to launchpad-users how you get on?06:47
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danilosanother point is that we've got a huge database (which is what makes text search hard), and we've been working on improving it, so we should have something in the near future (though, more DB changes will be required)06:47
mrevellcarlos, kiko, danilos: Thanks for the suggestions and for giving an insight into why we don't yet have searchable translations.06:48
mrevellThe next question is also related to searching, but searching of bugs:06:48
mrevellAre there any plans for improving search facilities in Launchpad? It always strikes me how difficult it is to find something using only keyword search compared to Bugzilla's "Advanced Query" panel. -- DavorCubranic06:48
mrevellDavor, are you here?06:49
=== carlos needs to leave now. Thanks for your questions and for coming
mrevellcarlos: Thank you for your input this evening!06:49
kikomrevell, well, we do offer advanced searching too.06:49
flacostethis is not a definitive answer, but we are upgrading to PosgreSQL 8.2 which will allow us to improve greatly our text searches06:49
flacosteor so says our DBA06:50
henoWe should perhaps look at integrating some of the search features developed in bughelper directly in LP06:50
KuhrscherHe is absoultely right. I it is very difficult to find bugs even if you know it is existing...06:50
mrevellflacoste, kiko: Thanks. It looks as though Davor isn't here, so hopefully he'll see your replies in the meeting report.06:50
=== danilos has to leave as well
danilosthanks for the questions, and don't forget that you can always email us or catch us here in #launchpad as well06:51
mrevellOkay, moving onto the next question.06:51
mrevell"the bug numbers are atomic, so it would be convenient that the search box (or another text box) acts like a quick "go to" when you enter a bug number06:52
mrevell tabs should be click-able everywhere on it, not just on the text   06:52
mrevell disabled tabs should disappears or have another color"06:52
mrevellThat question is from TheCore, who had to leave early. BjornT is that something you could answer?06:52
ddaatabs clickable everywhere has a bug currently assigned to Usman06:53
mrevellBjornT: As far as I know, the search box does allow you to enter a bug number.06:53
mrevellddaa: thanks06:53
ddaajump-to-bug-number currently works, and there's a bug open about changing it because it prevents searching for numbers06:53
mrevellddaa: Thank you.06:54
ddaaBut it does not appear to work in the global search06:54
mrevellWe had a number of other questions as well, relating to Rosetta. I'll post those to the launchpad-users list, along with the other questions from tonight's meeting.06:54
mrevellDo any users present have questions that were not raised in the agenda?06:54
ddaayeah, it only works in the bug search box06:55
alex_muntadamrevell: when will next meeting take place?06:55
mrevellalex_muntada: Aha :) That's the next item on the agenda.06:55
mthaddonIs there any date in mind (fixed or simply targeted) for the release of UI 1.0?06:55
KuhrscherWe don't talk about Rosetta?06:55
mrevellKuhrscher: Quite a large part of the meeting has been about Rosetta-related issues. Unfortunately, both main Rosetta developers have had to leave now. I'll raise the remaining questions on the launchpad-users list.06:56
KuhrscherThat's really annoying...06:57
mrevellmthaddon: We want Launchpad 1.0 to be perfect before we make it the default choice for Launchpad users. However, you can use the beta right now.06:58
ddaawould be nice to have it happen sooner than later06:58
thumperwell, it'll never be perfect06:59
ddaadealing with the divergence between production and rocketfuel will become increasingly painful06:59
thumperwe just want it to look good and work06:59
alex_muntadaAny news about LP UI translation?06:59
mthaddonmrevell, I agree, but am wondering if there's a targeted date for that or just "when it's ready"?06:59
kikookay, off the phone!06:59
mrevellKuhrscher: I'm sorry that we haven't got to your questions. It's the first time we've run the meeting, so please blame me for my lack of experience.06:59
flacostealex_muntada: the localization of the Answer Tracker is targeted for after the 1.0 release07:00
mrevellmthaddon: Much like a pint of Guinness, when it's ready :)07:00
kikoabout a date for 1.0; right now the issue is polish and warts. there are a lot of warts and quite a bit of polish but there is no heavy lifting to be done07:00
alex_muntadaflacoste: too bad :(07:00
KuhrscherSorry, but my impression is that upstream i18n issues are always treated like that :(07:00
mthaddonmrevell: gotcha - well much like a pint of Guinness it's looking pretty good right now and I'm sure it'll taste great when it's done07:00
kikoso it's more a matter of weeks than months.07:00
mrevellmthaddon: :)07:01
KuhrscherAnd that is not only my impression...07:01
kikothat's a great way of not giving a deadline isn't it?07:01
kikoKuhrscher, we give upstream i18n a lot of priority, but the truth is that rosetta is not a trivial application, and that work there takes time.07:01
kikowe've had a lot of serious performance issues over the past six months, and fixing those issues takes effort; not bean-counting effort, but debugging, refactoring, redesign, etc.07:02
kikoso I make no apologies for our lack of progress on that front, though I do promise that we are working hard on it and that there is a horizon of improvement.07:02
ddaain other words, it's a freaking three headed cerberus, and one developer has to hold it down while the other developers tries to beats it down silly while jumping around to dodge the bites07:02
Kuhrscherkiko: To be honestly I don't see any improvements regarding the most annoying issues for us.07:02
henokiko: that has a Pentagon ring to it ;p07:02
kikoKuhrscher, I don't think that's a very fair comment.07:03
heno'at a time of our choosing'07:03
kikowe've in the past three months: improved general performance significantly, improved the way the translation for is structured for reviewers, allowed public indexing and browsing of translations, improved the way both imports and exports were handled, and along the way, fixed dozens of bugs that affected "you"07:04
=== flacoste is starving to death
kikowe've also done major work towards implementing native support for firefox and openoffice translations07:04
kikoplanned the next generation database schema07:04
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kiko... the list goes on. so I'm sure that you've seen some improvements; perhaps not the ones that annoy you the most, but we have many users, and it's hard to keep everybody happy.07:05
mrevellkiko: Thanks very much.07:05
UbugtuNew bug: #90429 in malone "Badly worded 'release manager' text when nominating a bug for a release" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9042907:05
kikomrevell, about the bug searches; I'm not sure if the issue is that the advanced search is invisible, or if it's because the search isn't useful enough. it might be both!07:06
kikowhen davor replies via launchpad-users we'll know. :)07:06
mrevellKuhrscher: Again, I'm sorry that we didn't fully cover your questions. I'll get answers to them for you.07:06
KuhrscherKiko: Sorry, if I annoyed you.07:06
mrevellThank you everyone for attending, for your questions and for your time.07:06
mrevellI propose the next meeting at 09:00 on Wednesday 14 March 07. Any objections?07:06
KuhrscherKiko: The only import point for me is, to have all upstremas translations in Rosetta and in the distribution.07:07
kikoKuhrscher, sure. I'll relay that to carlos and danilos who have spent days and nights working to make it a better service. :)07:07
thumpermrevell: 9:00UTC?07:07
bacmrevell: that's pretty tough for the Americas.07:07
mrevellbac: Yeah, but 17:00 UTC is bad for Australia.07:07
thumperbac, but ok for ozzies07:07
kiko9:00UTC? wow!07:07
mrevellthumper: Yeah07:08
KuhrscherKiko: And the last two releases there had been so many problems. If it is better now, no one will be happier than me :)07:08
bacmrevell: if it's alternating that's fine07:08
mrevellkiko: I can change it if it doesn't work, but I want to make sure we cater for .au and .nz07:08
mrevellbac: Yeah, I'll alternate.07:08
kikoKuhrscher, I kind of want to slit my wrists at the performance issues to be honest. they are proving to be much harder to fix than we expected07:08
kikowe've made changes, waited to see them go live, and been dismayed at how bad things went07:09
kikoright now danilos has just landed a change which might improve things again07:09
mrevellOkay, well, thanks again everyone. Obviously you're free to continue your conversations, but I'll draw the official meeting to a close for this week.07:09
KuhrscherKiko: When does it make sense to look for failed imports to Feisty?07:10
=== ..[topic/#launchpad:mrevell] : Launchpad users and developers | Next user meeting: Wed 14 March 2007, 0900UTC | Next developer meeting: Thu 8 Mar 2007, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
kikoKuhrscher, have you been looking at the imports page? Let me get you a URL07:10
Kuhrscherhmm I need a password ;-)07:11
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kikoKuhrscher, really? I thought that page was public! argh.07:13
kikoKuhrscher, can you see /imports at all (without the arguments)?07:13
KuhrscherKiko: I applied for memebership in the beta team...07:13
KuhrscherKiko: No07:13
Kuhrscher"This site is accessible by launchpad admins and members of the Launchpad Beta Testers team only."07:14
mrevellKuhrscher: When did yu apply?07:15
Kuhrschertwo minutes ago...07:15
kikooh. 07:15
kikoKuhrscher, you can also drop the beta. in the URL :)07:15
mrevellKuhrscher: Ah, right.07:16
mrevellKuhrscher: If you can mail me - matthew.revell@canonical.com - to let me know you won't post screen shots of the beta interface, I'll approve your membership straight away07:16
kikomrevell, I just got his membership request07:17
mrevellkiko: Okay, cool07:17
KuhrscherThank you :)07:17
kikoKuhrscher, don't post screenshots or the easter bunny won't visit you07:19
KuhrscherSure ;-)07:19
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KuhrscherIs there any possibility to see if a specific package has already been imported? Like a search function?07:20
kikouhm, uhhh, oh07:20
kikoapparently not07:20
kikoI can give you a hint though07:20
kikoyou /can/ change the batch size and search manually07:21
KuhrscherSo how can find out if for example koffice-18n has been imported?07:21
KuhrscherOnly manually?07:21
kikoit seems like we're in the middle of KDE07:21
kikoyeah. that sucks! I didn't know07:22
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KuhrscherThe template of KOffice in Rosetta seems to be actualized to 1.6.2 but all new translations are still missing. I know it is completly translated by upstream because I did it ;-)07:25
KuhrscherBut perhaps we just have to wait :)07:25
kikomight not have been imported yet07:26
KuhrscherI hope so ;-)07:26
dholbachis  http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs  still OOPSing for people? (without beta)07:27
KuhrscherKiko: Is there any especial place to file all the bugs/issues regarding upstream imports to rosetta?07:28
kikoKuhrscher, uhm, well, yes07:28
KuhrscherShould we file bugs for each issue?07:28
kikoKuhrscher, it depends on the type of issue I guess07:28
kikobut you can, yes07:28
kikoI think there's a tag for import problems07:28
kikolet me check07:28
kikoor matsubara-lunch he is the man that knows these questions 07:29
KuhrscherI think we should try to handle these issues before the translation process is opened...07:29
KuhrscherIf there aren't any problems like this I will send you a box of beer :)07:30
kikowhat will I do with all that beer!07:31
KuhrscherIt's your choice ;-)07:32
kikoso I think what is planned to happen07:33
kikois that we're going to finish imports07:33
kikoand then ask you to review them07:33
kikoand then get the remaining misses sorted out07:33
kikoor signed off07:33
KuhrscherThat sounds resonable07:34
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KuhrscherDo you have already "an idea" when it will be finished?07:35
kikosomebody needs to wake carlos and danilos up for me. :)07:36
kikowe started last thursday07:36
kikoand we had 44000 or more07:36
kikoright now we have some 20Ks07:36
kikoso it's coming down -- probably another week though07:36
kikodanilo has provided a patch which improves a database query07:36
kikowhich may increase that speed07:36
kikoif it's applied to production07:37
kikoand that is all07:37
pochukiko: flood! :P07:37
KuhrscherOk, thank you for the information :)07:37
kikothe reason it is slow is because.. uhhh... martians have invaded the datacenter. I think07:38
kikoah, I have a phone call now07:38
kikoI <3 phone calls07:39
KuhrscherOhh ;-)07:39
KuhrscherOk, I have to leave. I still have to buy something to eat ;-)07:40
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LaserJockkiko: hi, sorry I missed the meeting :(07:51
LaserJocklooks like it was full anyway  ;-)07:51
=== beuno is sorry too
beunoI waited all week to report the "annoyance of the week"07:54
beunosmall fonts  :(07:54
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bdmurrayHow does ownership of a team in launchpad get changed?08:42
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pochubdmurray: you should be the owner08:45
pochubdmurray: and in the left pannel, there is an option: "Change owner"08:45
bdmurraypochu: I'm an administrator but probably should be the owner.  The current owner isn't around.08:48
pochubdmurray: yes, you have to be the owner08:50
pochuotherwise, that option will not appear08:50
bdmurrayCould an lp admin fix it then?08:53
matsubarabdmurray: which team? who should be the new owner (launchpad id)?08:54
bdmurraymatsubara: ubuntu-qa and brian-murray should be the owner08:55
LaserJockdoesn't sfllaw own ubuntu-qa?08:56
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sfllawbdmurray: You're the owner of Ubuntu QA now.09:06
bdmurraysfllaw: okay, thanks. How are you?09:07
sfllawbdmurray: Pretty good.  Let me know if you need anything I've got a lock on.09:07
pochuheya sfllaw!09:07
bdmurraysfllaw: Okay. Is there another e-mail address for you?09:08
sfllawpochu: Hello.09:08
pochusfllaw: nice to see you again in a Hug Day :D09:08
sfllawbdmurray: sfllaw@law.yi.org09:08
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flacosteddaa: ping09:22
thumperddaa: ping 209:22
flacostehey thumper, you can probably answer my question: do you know if we have a Zope3 SVN import set up?09:23
thumperflacoste: I'm not entirely sure, but I know that if we don't we will have soon...09:23
ddaaflumposte: pong09:23
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flacosteddaa: do we have an import setup for Zope3 SVN?09:23
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thumperddaa: I thought that you had run away for a second there09:26
ddaaI'm just ping-thrashing09:26
LaserJockhe had to go out back to find zope ;-)09:26
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ddaaso, there's a zope3 thing that's testfailed09:27
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ddaawhich is blowing on this mysterious assertion in svn_subst_translate_stream309:28
ddaaAssertion `eol_str || keywords' failed.09:28
ddaawhen doing svn_client_checkout09:28
ddaahow brain-damaged is that?09:28
flacosteyou tell me!09:29
ddaavery, very much09:29
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ddaaI expect to have this problem fixed by bypassing keyword expansion entirely in imports09:29
ddaaunless somebody can give me a better idea09:29
ddaawhich will be possible using svn_ra09:30
ddaawhich leads us the infamous problem "python svn bindings are pain"09:31
ddaanot easily fixable without upgrading the importd systems to edgy...09:31
ddaaor maybe this specific bit of API is acutally usable on dapper...09:32
BjornTiirc cscvs doesn't handle svn externals, or does it? zope3 uses that quite a lot.09:32
ddaawell... not something I can fix tonight, for sure09:32
ddaaBjornT: it ignores them entirely09:32
ddaaeach external should be imported separately09:33
thumperddaa: I understand that the zope guys are looking to break stuff up into separate repositories09:33
ddaawhich is the meaningful thing to do until a long time in the future09:33
thumperand use python eggs09:33
thumperbut I don't know their timeline09:33
ddaathe "long time in the future" thing is when we have redesign the import system enough to have a single import tied to multiple branches and multiple productseries...09:34
thumperflacoste: I guess the answer is no then09:34
flacosteyeah, that's what I understood09:34
ddaashould I add this to my todo list?09:34
thumperddaa: I was just going to catch up and see how things are going for you and what you're doing now09:34
thumperddaa: what zope3?09:35
ddaayes, zope309:35
ddaaI could try a shortcut09:35
thumperddaa: I'd say yes09:35
ddaaokay, added it near the bottom of my todo, just before "cvscvs pyrex"...09:36
flacosteddaa:  I don't know if an import of zope3 is a priority, SteveA would be the one to ask09:37
ddaathumper: at the moment, trying to deal with an anomalously high rate of pings09:37
thumperddaa: what do you mean?09:38
ddaaflacoste: I'd be happy to talk with SteveA about reshuffling my todo list :)09:38
thumperddaa: what's on your todo list?09:38
ddaathumper: I mean I have two other things calling for my attention at the moment :)09:38
thumperddaa: I know what you mean09:38
thumperI am in the middle of another production cycle of the mag I edit09:39
thumperand I have to write my conference talk09:39
ddaathumper: here's what's next https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileKEblOC.html09:39
ddaanot counting branches that are pending review09:39
thumperI've got another couple of things to chuck into that list09:40
thumperbut they are more interesting dev things09:40
thumperlike the import db refactoring09:40
ddaaactually, branch-puller errors fixage is probably going to be one big branch with some other fixes too09:40
thumperand the import ui pages09:40
ddaaand and reviewing specs and stuff from you and jml09:40
thumperddaa: of course :)09:41
ddaawhen you need my attention, it makes it right at the top of the list09:41
ddaaso this todo list looks like two months until I can get to zope3, at the current pace...09:42
ddaadoing insane amount of context-switching and review and chat nowadays09:42
ddaaeating most of my time09:42
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thumperddaa: there is a great design pattern for working that I try to follow:09:43
thumperDon't interrupt and interrupt09:43
lifelessddaa is low latency09:44
ddaalifeless: actually, this benchmarking you asked me about is in my short-term memory queue now...09:44
thumperparaphrased: if you have contexted switched to do something else, don't switch to yet a third thing until number two is done09:44
ddaaso not terribly good at real-time :)09:44
lifelessddaa: I'm happy to do it if its not trivial09:44
ddaanot hard09:44
ddaajust busy09:45
lifelessddaa: upgrade takes about 5 seconds09:45
ddaathumper: so, you wanted me to add some things to this list?09:45
lifelessbarry: ping09:45
ddaaor are they things I can act on reactively?09:45
thumperddaa: they can wait a bit until your queue is a little shorter, but I'd like them on there09:46
ddaawhat do you mean by "import ui pages"?09:47
thumperddaa: the items were mentioned above: db refactoring for import09:47
thumperddaa: listings of various import statuses, whiteboard in imports et al09:47
thumperddaa: the things we talked about on the explicit branch type spec09:47
thumperddaa: however if you really think that you'd not be able to get to these within the next month or two09:48
thumperI might talk to jml about them09:48
ddaaactually, I'd rather dump some items from my current list to jml09:48
ddaasuch as fixing the branch-puller errors, correct check after remirroring, sftp server oopses09:49
ddaaand better importstatus control09:49
lifelesswe need a bzrlib upgrade for launchpad too09:50
lifelessto support 0.1509:50
=== sinzui_afk is now known as sinzui
thumperlifeless: when is 0.15 released?09:50
lifelessthumper: rc1 is out now, dont expect anything revolutionary, and ~ a week to the final09:51
thumperlifeless: ok09:51
lifelesssome real performance gains in there09:51
thumperlifeless: as a bzr person, please tell me what you'd like changed on the code.lp.net bits09:52
lifelessin general, or specifically relating to 0.15 ?09:52
thumperespecially if there is something that just doesn't work well09:52
thumperlifeless: in general09:52
ryanakcaHmm... is there any way to show all the untranslated strings for feisty in say... french?09:52
lifelessthese lines:09:52
lifelessRevision 17 by David Allouche <david.allouche@canonical.com> (2007-01-15)09:52
lifelessfast implementation of xml5._encode_and_escape and friends09:52
thumperI do have feature requests piling up, so more interested in PITAs09:52
lifelessthe revision X line is HUGE, and the revision log much smaller09:53
lifelessit weirds me out09:53
ryanakcaor to sort all the apps so that it shows you the ones with the most or the least untranslated strings first?09:53
lifelessthats on https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~ddaa/+junk/bzr-pyrex09:53
ryanakca(good job on the beta, btw)09:53
thumperlifeless: that's wierd09:54
thumperit doesn't look too different on my monitor09:54
thumperis there somewhere I could paste a screenshot to you?09:55
lifelessthumper: by HUGE I mean nearly twice the height of the revision log text09:55
lifelessI'll grab one for you09:55
thumperlifeless: mine is about 20% bigger09:56
lifelessthumper: I'd like a dbus listener to tell lp when I've pushed to non hosted url's10:00
ddaaabout this UI thing10:00
ddaatalked about it with jml this morning10:00
ddaaI agree it's ugly10:01
ddaahe agrees and will talk with mpt about it10:01
ddaaspecifically, what weirds me out is the color of the revision line, to light on white background10:01
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thumperlifeless: min looks like devpad.canonical.com:~tim/snapshot.png10:05
lifelessthat looks more tasteful than what I see10:06
carloskiko: hi10:06
thumperlifeless: which browser do you use?10:07
lifelessfirefox today10:07
thumperhmm.. me too10:07
thumperryanakca: the main rosetta devs have left for the day, sorry I can't answer this10:08
ryanakcakk, and another problem I'm having, https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ , pick "newest first" from the menu and go search.10:09
ryanakcaIt keeps on giving me "Ooops!"10:09
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gnomefreakis the launchpad users mailing list down? i sent a post there and got PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 501 <launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com.>: domain missing or malformed10:10
ryanakcahey gnomefreak10:11
gnomefreakhi ryanakca 10:11
carlosgnomefreak: I'm not sure, but the ending dot at '.com.' looks suspicious10:12
gnomefreaki saw that im trying again10:12
ryanakcagnomefreak: dunno, it's there, I can ping it... and telnet lists.canonical.com 25 give me "220 esperanza.ubuntu.com ESMTP Exim 4.60 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:12:06 +0000"10:13
gnomefreaksent again10:13
gnomefreakwithout the "." at the end10:13
thumperryanakca: I tried the ubuntu bugs, and it worked for me...10:14
pochugnomefreak: I have your message10:23
pochugnomefreak: oops, right?10:23
gnomefreakok last time sent cool :)10:23
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gnomefreakthis damn oops crap is getting to me :(10:32
gnomefreakthat time refresh worked10:33
=== LaserJock hugs BjornT
ryanakcagnomefreak: I'm getting that too10:41
gnomefreakon beta i get it alot just going to LP links. on beta nd stable i cant file bug. :(10:42
kikognomefreak, can you give me OOPS IDs?10:44
gnomefreakkiko: i sent one in the email10:45
gnomefreakkiko: OOPS-431BA485 for unable to file bug10:46
kikoso in BA. okay, matsubara showed me that one. any others?10:46
pochukiko: also in beta :)10:46
gnomefreaki didnt keep them 10:46
gnomefreaki will when i see it again 10:47
kikoyeah, ok. we'll know of all of them in tonight's report anyway10:47
gnomefreakok cool10:48
kikoit will be a depressing report though10:48
ajmitchkiko: think of it providing plenty of opportunities10:49
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kikoajmitch, for depressing oneself?10:55
ajmitchfor improvement of the code, a chance to broaden your horizons10:57
=== LaserJock wonders what ajmitch has been drinking today
lifelesshow do you get to the changelog for a release in launchpad ?10:58
LaserJocklike for a package?10:59
jmlor for launchpad?10:59
lifelessno, for a release10:59
lifelesshas a changelog in it10:59
lifelessbut I canna see how to get it out again :)11:00
elmohttps://beta.launchpad.net/bzr/0.15/0.15rc1/+edit ?11:00
lifelesselmo: not to change it, to view it11:00
lifelessyou know, something users like doing11:00
kikoare you trying to confuse us all lifeless?11:01
elmolifeless: uh, when I go to the URL you pasted, I do get to view it?11:02
LarstiQelmo: sure, but I don't expect users to guess it :P11:03
LarstiQkiko: it has confused me in the past registering bzr releases too11:03
lifelesselmo: huh? I cant see it11:03
lifelesselmo: its like 10 pages long the changelog11:03
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elmolifeless: oh, duh, sorry - I see what you mean -yeah that seems to be missing11:05
kikoyeah, same here11:05
lifelessso, robert finds bug, news at 1111:06
gnomefreaki saw a download for the full change log11:06
lifelessgnomefreak: whats the url ?11:06
LaserJocklifeless: I can't even get to +edit so I'm guessing many users won't either11:07
lifelessLaserJock: +edit is unrelated :)11:07
gnomefreakhttps://beta.launchpad.net/bzr/0.15/0.15rc1 look in top left hand corner11:07
LaserJocklifeless: exactly11:07
gnomefreakPDF file11:07
gnomefreakyeah maybe that instead11:08
gnomefreaki lost my glasses for reading :(11:09
LaserJockkiko: did you ever subscribe me to any bugs? I can't remember if you said you were going to do that while you were going through my list11:09
lifelessgnomefreak: yeah, thats xml though, not regular web UI niceness11:09
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gnomefreakand for some reason beta print is alot smaller than stable is11:09
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UbugtuNew bug: #90476 in launchpad-bazaar "Better import status control from web user interface" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9047611:10
kikoLaserJock, no, it's on my TODO :-(11:11
jmlif a fix for a regular and beta bug is on beta, is that fix-released?11:11
LaserJockkiko: np, I was just going to go through and do it if you hadn't11:11
LaserJockkiko: is there an RSS feed or some way to track launchpad bugs? I've lost where I was and want to look for newer bugs 11:13
ddaagood night folks11:13
=== ddaa turns into a pillow
UbugtuNew bug: #90483 in launchpad-bazaar "Redo consistency checks when branch format changes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9048311:20
UbugtuNew bug: #90484 in launchpad-bazaar "SFTP server OOPSes" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9048411:25
kikoLaserJock, there is none, really. would you like to see only newer bugs?11:28
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mptGoooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!11:29
jmlmpt: Good morning!11:29
jmlmpt: may I talk with you about a page on beta?11:30
mpt(holy crap Thunderbird is annoying)11:30
jmlmpt: https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/0.1011:30
UbugtuNew bug: #90487 in launchpad-bazaar "Improve branch puller error reporting" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9048711:31
kikohave you received mail from SteveA?11:31
mptkiko, probably, let me look11:31
mptyes, I have a couple from him11:31
jmlmpt: I'd like to make that page more readable.11:31
mptOh cool, there's some stuff for the multiple page templates11:32
jml(part of the problem is that the pqm plugin encourages single-line commit messages)11:32
mptGreat, X-Chat thinks Konqueror is my default Web browser11:33
mptand my swap partition's AWOL11:33
=== mpt is having a bad morning
mptjml, ah, so these are the famous <h3>s11:34
jmlmpt: right :)11:34
jmlmpt: ddaa and I discussed possibly using the bug comment style11:35
mptjml, so what will be the distribution of commit messages generally? 70% less than 200 characters? 50%? 30%?11:35
mptIf that page is typical, using <h3> is probably too heavy11:35
mptAnd is "due to a bug in a new" an accident by the person who wrote the commit message, or is it a bug somewhere else?11:36
jmlI honestly don't know11:36
jmlmpt: that page will certainly be typical for branches managed by PQM (given that it doesn't pop up an editor on submit)11:37
=== mpt peers at the TAL
mptso probably you want either a <ul> or a <table>11:38
mptjml, why are you giving each section an id= ?11:39
jmlmpt: to make it easier to test.11:39
mptWill revision numbers ever be something other than integers?11:40
sinzuimpt: I have a css color question for lp11:41
jmlmpt: not as far as I know.11:41
mptjml, then I suggest an <ol>11:41
jmlmpt: how should the author and date be formatted?11:42
mptwith <li tal:attributes="value rev_no"><div>commiter, date</div>commit message</li>11:43
thumpermpt: SteveA told me to tell you to reply to his emails :-)11:43
mptthank you thumper, I will :-)11:43
thumpermpt: I also want to ask you about beta bugs for code pages that need fixing11:44
thumpermpt: I just want to make sure I'm not blocking anything11:44
mptthumper, you're not blocking anything that I know of, I have mountains of work to do11:44
thumpermpt: ok11:45
thumpermpt: just let me know if you come across anything that I could either help with or applies to the code pages11:45
mptthank you11:46
jmlmpt: ok. I'll make that change today. Do you want to have a look at it before I trivial it through?11:46
mptjml, sure11:47
mptThere is no obvious HTML solution to this sort of problem11:47
jmlmpt: anyway, thanks. I'll let you get back to the mountain :)11:48
mptsinzui, you still have a question? :-)11:50
jkakarThere's no "Report a bug" link on this page: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/bazaar/+bugs but there is on the same page for the 'bzr' product.  I was able to file a bug by typing in a URL like .../bazaar/+filebug (which was before I discovered the 'bzr' product)11:50
sinzuimpt: yes11:50
UbugtuNew bug: #90493 in launchpad-bazaar "List of branches view focus defaults to "Show branches with status of" pulldown" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9049311:50
LarstiQjkakar: so what were you trying to do with /bazaar/+filebug?11:50
jkakarLarstiQ: File a bug. :)11:51
LarstiQjkakar: on what though? :)11:51
sinzuimpt: I added a highlight to tbody rows all tables with .listing when the mouse hovers over it. I choose to create a light grey class instead of reusing .highlight.11:51
sinzuimpt: is .highlight intended to call-out a single row in a table?11:52
jkakarLarstiQ: A problem where I had to rnu generate_revision_history() on a couple of branches to fix broken committing with a bound branch.11:52
jkakarLarstiQ: ie: Against the " bzr" command line program.11:52
jkakarLarstiQ: I never thought to look for a "bzr" product since it's referred to as "Bazaar" everywhere.11:53
mptjkakar, you're right, that's a bug left over from when you couldn't report bugs on project groups11:54
mptWhen that was made possible, a button was added to the project group page, but a link wasn't added to the project group Bugs page11:54
jkakarmpt: Oh.  What's a project group?11:55
jkakarmpt: Perhaps more importantly, will my bug report get to the right people?11:55
mptsinzui, it's used whenever one thing of several needs highlighting. For example, in a bug page, class="highlight" is used for the table to highlight your current context.11:56
mptin product pages class="highlighted" is used to highlight the series that's the "current development focus"11:57
mpthighlight, highlighted, they shouldn't both exist...11:57
sinzuimpt: thanks. so mouseover events should be a different background-color. I lifted #eeeeee from another class for a new class called enhightlight11:58
mptjkakar, "project group" is the new name for "project". "Project" is the new name for "product". Neither of these changes are fully implemented yet.11:58
mptsinzui, are you greasemonkeying, or user.css-ing?11:58
jkakarmpt: Ah, okay.  Thanks.11:59
mptjkakar, so <https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/bazaar/+bugs> should link to <https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/bazaar/+filebug>11:59
mptand you see that the first field in that page is asking you which product to report the bug against11:59
sinzuimpt: I think I'm doing both.11:59
sinzuimpt: This is the effect given in the example12:00
mptsinzui, very interesting, perhaps you could e-mail me the results once you're done :-)12:00
LarstiQmpt: ugh, more confusement12:00
mptLarstiQ, hmm?12:01
LarstiQmpt: product/project renaming12:01
mptoh, yeah, well12:01
kikoit's a long-term win12:02
LarstiQjkakar: would what mpt just said about bazaar/+filebug asking about the product to file it against solve that problem of not looking for bzr instead of bazaar?12:02
LarstiQkiko: oh probably, it just feels as a lot of changes of direction12:02
mptsinzui, that seems a bit weird to me. I try to avoid hover effects in general, but where they are used, they usually indicate clickability. Not so in bugzilla.redhat.com, though.12:02
kikoLarstiQ, in this case it's a change of direction we all want! :)12:02
jkakarLarstiQ: Yup, I suspect it would help.  As someone not intimately familiar with the various contexts in LP I find it's often hard to know what you're looking at.  More clarification would help.12:03
LarstiQkiko: so how about things like 'the gnome project'? :)12:03
kikoLarstiQ, that's illegal!!!12:03
kikoit's fine I think personally12:03
LarstiQjkakar: ah, atm I'm selfishly only concerned with confusion about Bazaar ;)12:04
mptLarstiQ, sorry, according to Launchpad, Gnome is not a project :-P12:04
mptit's a group of projects12:04
kikompt, even in real life, if there is such a defined thing as a project12:04
sinzuimpt: I agree. hence I'm engaging in a spurious solution. We are making wide lines more legible for scanning in exchange for ambiguity in behaviour.12:04
=== kiko goes back to work
=== mpt is reminded of jdub's "GNOME: Product or project?" slide
sinzuimpt: I'll send you a patch to observe.12:05
LarstiQmpt: I agree it's better than previously12:05
mptyes, it's an improvement.12:05
=== mpt goes back to work too
mptlifeless, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34752012:07
UbugtuGnome bug 347520 in Mailer "From: address with no space between display name and "<" is parsed incorrectly" [Normal,Resolved: notabug]   - Assigned to evolution-mail-maintainers@ximian.com12:07
LarstiQmpt: last interjection from me before I go to bed, were you working on having the original date, submitter visible by default on bugs?12:08
mptLarstiQ, yes.12:09
lifelessmpt: ?12:09
mptlifeless, it's a bug in PQM's mail notifications12:10
LarstiQmpt: thanks12:10
lifelessmpt: file a bug on pqm please12:11

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