[12:26] <mooey> when a bug is nominated to be fixed in dapper, where in launchpad does it show?
[12:31] <crimsun> in the bug itself as a dapper task
[12:46] <sabdfl> mooey: also, on the dapper bugs listing
[12:47] <sabdfl> bugs.lp.n/ubuntu/dapper iirc
[12:49] <mooey> thanks sabdfl, crimsun 
[12:49] <mooey> in /ubuntu/dapper is the first place i looked, but i can't find it listed there
[12:49] <mooey> but it has only been nominated for dapper
[12:49] <mooey> not accepted? so i guess thats correct
[12:50] <mooey> in which case my question is: where are bugs that are nominated for a release tracked in launchpad?
[01:07] <daviey> Hi, can somebody help me using bzr?
[01:07] <lifeless> sure
[01:07] <daviey> good
[01:07] <lifeless> whats up?
[01:07] <daviey> right, i have made a branch, it's linked with a project
[01:08] <daviey> but i cant upload
[01:08] <daviey> when i 'branch' i get 0 revisions made
[01:09] <daviey> lifeless, any idea?
[01:10] <lifeless> daviey: what bzr version are you using ?
[01:10] <daviey>  0.14.0
[01:10] <lifeless> when you say you cant upload, what happens when you try ?
[01:11] <daviey> wait 1
[01:17] <daviey> lifeless, when i "bzr commit" nano appears
[01:17] <lifeless> daviey: its asking for a commit message
[01:17] <lifeless> daviey: you should type in a message, save the file, and exit.
[01:17] <daviey> oh, i'll do that
[01:20] <daviey> okay, they are commited
[01:22] <daviey> shouldn't bzr push know where to upload it?
[01:23] <jamesh> daviey: if you've previously pushed the branch, it will remember that
[01:23] <jamesh> if not, no.
[01:23] <daviey> ahh
[01:25] <jamesh> so you'd need to run "bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/product/branch
[01:25] <jamesh> (whatever name you want to give the branch)
[01:26] <daviey> we are cooking on gas!
[01:27] <daviey> 1 revision made.... but why if i sftp into the launchpad server, does it not show up?
[01:27] <jamesh> what do you mean?
[01:28] <jamesh> note that only the .bzr/ directory is uploaded via SFTP
[01:28] <daviey> if i, nautilus sftp://davewalker@bazaar.launchpad.net/~XXX   then i can see the branch folders - but not the stuff i just pushed
[01:29] <jamesh> daviey: is there a .bzr/ directory in the branch's directory?
[01:29] <jamesh> it won't show on a normal "ls", since it is hidden
[01:29] <jamesh> (as are all dot files)
[01:29] <daviey> local or remote?
[01:29] <jamesh> remote
[01:29] <daviey> there is a bzr
[01:29] <spiv> daviey: show hidden files
[01:30] <spiv> daviey: (Ctrl-H in nautilus)
[01:30] <daviey> done that, but only shows a .bzr folder
[01:30] <spiv> daviey: right, that's the branch.
[01:30] <daviey> oh, i thought it might show HEAD in the folder
[01:30] <jamesh> daviey: that is all that people need to pull your branch
[01:31] <spiv> You can do things like "bzr info" on that URL.
[01:31] <spiv> And branch from it.
[01:31] <spiv> But it's not a checkout.
[01:31] <daviey> doesn't svn just seem simpler?
[01:32] <jamesh> daviey: Launchpad has already scanned the branch here: https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/mythbuntu/devel
[01:32] <daviey> How did you know what project it was?
[01:33] <jamesh> daviey: I looked at https://code.launchpad.net/~davewalker and picked the branch with the most recent commit
[01:33] <daviey> jamesh, i can't use 'beta'
[01:33] <daviey> cheeky chap
[01:33] <jamesh> daviey: remove the ".beta" bit
[01:33] <daviey> done :P
[01:34] <jamesh> daviey: if you want to look at the beta testers, try and join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers
[01:34] <jamesh> that is, "look at the beta site"
[01:34] <jamesh> you'll get an email asking you to agree not to post screenshots, and then get added to the team
[01:34] <spiv> daviey: SVN is the same, if you look at the repository it doesn't hold a working tree of HEAD
[01:35] <daviey> jamesh, i've applied - thanks
[01:35] <spiv> daviey: instead what usually happens is there's a webserver that knows to dynamically show the files/directories of a checkout if you access it with a non-SVN client.
[01:35] <spiv> daviey: Or there's a dedicated "ViewSVN" site users go to
[01:35] <daviey> spiv, i see
[01:36] <spiv> daviey: we have a system to do this for bazaar.launchpad.net in testing at the moment.
[01:36] <jamesh> we just need to make it suck less
[01:36] <daviey> thats great!
[01:37] <spiv> And jamesh is the lucky person that's been making it suck less so far :)
[01:37] <jamesh> "Serbian vampire hunters prevent Milosevic come-back" <- I wonder if danilos was involved
[03:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90062 in malone "The 'affects' e-mail command should use the new path scheme" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90062
[07:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90309 in launchpad "poexport-queue.txt test disabled" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90309
[08:53] <carlos> morning
[09:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #39292 in rosetta "Rosetta nearly unusable in w3m" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39292
[09:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90322 in rosetta "Add human readable formulas for Plural forms" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90322
[10:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90329 in malone "Comment form for duplicate bug reports should warn about their duplicate status" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90329
[11:06] <heno> I'm getting several Oopses in a row on https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu today
[11:07] <Tomcat_> Hi. What's up with Launchpad? I get timeouts all the time in malone.
[11:07] <heno> perhaps such a very common page should be cached for a minute or so?
[11:09] <heno> Tomcat_: is that with the beta or the standard interface?
[11:09] <Tomcat_> Standard interface.
[11:09] <Tomcat_> Now it works... weird.
[11:09] <heno> ok, thanks. I'm getting much the same result with beta
[11:10] <heno> yeah, it's been patchy for me too
[11:10] <Tomcat_> Mostly with stuff that I would say is compute-intensive, like "all Ubuntu bugs" or "enter new bug"... not at all for smaller things like "all evolution bugs".
[11:11] <Tomcat_> Anyway, worked long enough. Thanks. :)
[11:11] <BjornT> heno: that page doesn't time out for me atm. do you have an oops id handy?
[11:12] <heno> BjornT: yep. OOPS-431BA129
[11:12] <BjornT> cool, i'll take a look at what's causing the time outs.
[11:12] <heno> BjornT: it's been about half and half working/oopsing this morning
[11:12] <heno> thanks
[11:13] <carlos> BjornT: I got a time out too
[11:14] <BjornT> carlos: what's the oops id? good to have another one to compare with.
[11:14] <carlos> BjornT: https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2007-03-07/BC157
[11:14] <BjornT> thanks
[11:14] <carlos> BjornT: although I don't see why should it time out with that query...
[11:16] <BjornT> carlos: yeah, your oops looks really strange. should be that it's waiting for some lock or something.
[11:25] <ddaa> jml: ping?
[11:33] <jml> ddaa: hi
[11:34] <ddaa> jml: how does this page look to you? https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk
[11:35] <jml> ddaa: alright. the fonts are too small :)
[11:35] <ddaa> mh right...
[11:35] <jml> ddaa: and there should be a bigger gap between each revision
[11:35] <ddaa> Actuall I think the spacing is right
[11:35] <ddaa> but the use of h3 makes revision titles hard to read
[11:36] <ddaa> seems to me that hN tags should be only use for structural page elements
[11:36] <ddaa> I am not sure how to change the layout practically, but I'd like the revision lines to be in text color
[11:37] <jml> ddaa: a bit earlier today, I was thinking of using the same styles as the bug comments
[11:37] <jml> (https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/48064 for a random example)
[11:38] <jml> but that might make the page too long
[11:38] <ddaa> yep
[11:38] <jml> ddaa: I'll discuss options with mpt tomorrow.
[11:38] <ddaa> I agree with both points you're making :)
[11:38] <jml> :)
[11:38] <jml> ddaa: so, a part of me wants to ask you a bunch of questions about bug branch linking and the scanner
[11:39] <jml> ddaa: but the other, stronger part wants to have a drink and watch mindless TV shows
[11:39] <ddaa> well, we do not often have the opportunity to chat :)
[11:40] <ddaa> I suggest you get a drink and have a mindless discussion about bug branch linking :)
[11:40] <ddaa> mindless TV shows are bad for you brain, at least watch some good SciFi TV show.
[11:41] <jml> well, I meant Heroes specifically.
[11:41] <ddaa> dunno that one
[11:42] <ddaa> random comment
[11:42] <ddaa> I'd like the bug comment style to change
[11:42] <ddaa> to look less like a web forum
[11:42] <jml> heh
[11:43] <ddaa> that would help prevent people asking questions about bugs using web forum terminology...
[11:43] <ddaa> which does not happen often, but irritates me terribly
[11:43] <ddaa> in a similar vein, it might not be a good idea to use this style for branches...
[11:44] <ddaa> then people would ask how to reply to a thread when they mean commit to a branch...
[11:44] <jml> bzr ci -m 'rofl!!@!'
[11:45] <lifeless> lolzor roflcopter
[11:45] <ddaa> now I'm going to have nightmares!
[11:46] <jml> look on the bright side, if you can't sleep, you are more likely to be around tomorrow morning :)
[11:47] <ddaa> I've been very successful at waking up on morning this week.
[11:47] <ddaa> been waking up at 7am since monday
[11:47] <jml> I meant my morning :)
[11:47] <ddaa> ta, your tz is wrong
[11:47] <ddaa> use more coffee
[11:48] <jml> someone should move australia into the north atlantic.
[11:49] <ddaa> you'd have to strip out all the deserts
[11:49] <ddaa> otherwise, I'm not sure it would actually fit in the nort atlantic
[11:49] <jml> if I had a globe, I would consult it.
[11:49] <mwh> jml: http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/australia.shtml ?
[11:52] <jml> see! it'd fit
[11:52] <ddaa> see, Tasmania is trampling some islands off the coast of Canada!
[11:52] <ddaa> just leave Tasmania behind
[11:52] <ddaa> it's useless anyway
[11:52] <jml> :(
[11:52] <jml> ddaa: it's attached.
[11:52] <ddaa> it also looks like Perth is squashing the Canary islands
[11:52] <ddaa> that's no good
[11:53] <ddaa> OTOH... since those island are mostly full of German and Danes, it's maybe not such a big loss
[11:55] <ddaa> Apologies to German folks and fabbione's wife.
[11:55] <jml> ddaa: so, I've incorporated most of your comments into the bug-branch spec
[11:56] <jml> ddaa: and I've attached questions to the comments I have questions about (sensible, no?)
[11:56] <ddaa> thanks
[11:56] <ddaa> I'll be coming back to comment on this :)
[11:56] <jml> excellent. so if I see you tomorrow morning, we'll have plenty to talk about :)
[11:56] <jml> I'll try to start earlier than usual.
[12:02] <jml> g'night all
[12:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90352 in launchpad "Deleting an attachment should remove the LibaryFileAlias at the same time" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90352
[12:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90354 in launchpad "Bug 62453 shows up in Launchpad's guided file bug form as 'most frequently reported'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90354
[12:24] <ddaa> Is there a known problem with irc.canonical.com?
[12:24] <ddaa> I can no longer connect to it.
[12:26] <Ng> ddaa: could you try again on port 8080?
[12:27] <Ng> ddaa: if that works, could you please call proxad and shout at them? maria has the same issue :/
[12:28] <ddaa> Fixes it
[12:29] <ddaa> darn, there was this problem before with smtp/ssl
[12:29] <ddaa> This ISP is not exactly the kind where you expect to find a human to answer you.
[12:29] <ddaa> But it's cheap, Linux-friendly, and got good service.
[12:30] <Ng> ddaa: I suspect they're trying to be helpful and interfering with that port to stop malware
[12:30] <Ng> but it's pretty annoying
[12:31] <ddaa> yeah, I'd like to have a setting "yes I fucking now what I'm doing, I'm not running a windows zombie system, please do not muck with my internet connection, kthxbye"
[12:31] <Ng> hehe
[12:32] <ddaa> it's the sort of thing I'd expect them to provide, with an appropriately obscure user interface
[12:32] <ddaa> or maybe using browser sniffing...
[12:33] <ddaa> "deny if browser runs on windows" :)
[02:02] <caravena> oops! http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9071/
[02:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90359 in liferea (main) "liferea 1.2.7 no german translation (dup-of: 78885)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90359
[02:51] <BjornT> reviewer meeting in 10 minutes
[03:04] <BjornT> time for this week's eu/us reviewer meeting
[03:04] <BjornT> == Agenda ==
[03:04] <BjornT> * Roll call * Next meeting * Queue status.
[03:04] <BjornT> who's here?
[03:05] <flacoste> me
[03:05] <salgado> me
[03:07] <BjornT> == Next meeting ==
[03:07] <BjornT> next meeting will 14th march, 1400 UTC, any objections?
[03:08] <salgado> no
[03:08] <flacoste> fine
[03:08] <BjornT> ok
[03:08] <BjornT> == Queue status ==
[03:08] <BjornT> there are currently 15 open reviews, which is two more than on Monday.
[03:09] <BjornT> jamesh, SteveA, and salgado have branches that are more than 10 days old
[03:09] <flacoste> my queue is empty
[03:09] <BjornT> 5 branches ar slightly above the 2-day limit, the rest are ok.
[03:09] <flacoste> so feel free to offload some of them on me
[03:09] <salgado> yeah, but I need to point that the one on my queue was assigned to me when it was 6 or 7 days old already
[03:10] <salgado> (I'll finish it today, though)
[03:10] <flacoste> last week assignments were kind of late indeed
[03:10] <BjornT> salgado: oh, right. i think that branch was discussed at the last meeting, ddaa change the name of the branch, but not the date, so it's incorrect.
[03:11] <BjornT> flacoste: my queue is quite long. how about taking the two small ones from ddaa?
[03:11] <flacoste> no problem
[03:12] <ddaa_> thanks
[03:12] <BjornT> thanks flacoste 
[03:13] <BjornT> salgado: has jamesh reviewed your ui-fixes branch yet?
[03:13] <salgado> BjornT, yep
[03:14] <BjornT> cool. so the queue looks quite good then, actually.
[03:14] <BjornT> == Other business ==
[03:14] <BjornT> any other business?
[03:15] <flacoste> not from me
[03:15] <salgado> yes, this should be the eu/americas reviewers meeting instead of the "eu/us" one. kthxbye
[03:16] <flacoste> +1
[03:16] <flacoste> there is nobody from the us here
[03:17] <BjornT> us, americas, it's all the same to me :) but ok.
[03:18] <BjornT> ok, meeting ended. thanks for coming.
[03:18] <salgado> thanks BjornT 
[03:19] <flacoste> thanks BjornT
[03:59] <statik> quiet around here
[04:00] <kiko> boo
[04:01] <statik> kiko saves the day with 3 letters!
[04:01] <kiko> statik, will you follow up on fabbione's suggestions? I am overloaded :-(
[04:02] <statik> kiko: yes, I will
[04:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90397 in launchpad-bazaar "mirroring script needs newer bzrlib" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90397
[04:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90403 in launchpad "False timeout failure in test_adapter.txt" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90403
[04:37] <slytherin> I am getting too many OOPS on LP today. Mostly for search. Is it problem with beta interface?
[04:57] <newz2000> salgado: hey, do you have any idea if/when the cdmirror-rss change can be released to the non-beta website?
[04:57] <salgado> newz2000, you mean, the addition of the country code?
[04:58] <newz2000> yeah
[04:59] <salgado> newz2000, do you need that for the new website?
[05:00] <newz2000> salgado: Well, the website can release without it, but the auto-mirror detection code needs it, and that needs to be done in the next week or so.
[05:00] <newz2000> I have a tedious work-around available if it can't go live though
[05:01] <salgado> newz2000, I've already requested a cherry pick for that change, so it's likely that it'll reach production this week
[05:02] <btse> @now timezone
[05:02] <newz2000> salgado: ok, that'd great. I'm really looking forward to seeing this code work
[05:02] <btse> @now cet
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Current time in CET: March 07 2007, 17:02:29
[05:04] <btse> @bush
[05:05] <btse> hm
[05:06] <btse> @now utc
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 07 2007, 16:06:13
[05:06] <btse> @bruce
[05:12] <btse> @schedule
[05:12] <btse> no?
[05:14] <dholbach> did you notive a rising number of OOPSes today? http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs oopses for me every time
[05:15] <pochu> dholbach: oops!
[05:15] <pochu> OOPS-431BD390
[05:16] <kiko> yes, everybody is noticing these
[05:16] <kiko> oh, even not on beta?
[05:16] <seb128> that's not on beta
[05:16] <dholbach> no, not beta
[05:16] <pochu> kiko: beta for me
[05:16] <pochu> haven't tried non-beta
[05:17] <kiko> grumble
[05:17] <kiko> this is terrible
[05:17] <pochu> seb128, dholbach: have you disabled the redirection?
[05:17] <seb128> yep
[05:17] <kiko> I need to rush out for a bit, but let me get hold of that when I'm back
[05:44] <Rinchen> ping SteveA for awareness
[05:53] <SteveA> hi Rinchen 
[05:58] <thumper> mrevell: this thing of yours is in a few minutes isn't it?
[05:58] <mrevell> thumper:  certainly is
[05:58] <ddaa> mrevell: where's the agenda?
[05:59] <theCore> well, it seems I won't have the time to stay for the meeting
[05:59] <mrevell> ddaa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadUserMeeting/2007-03-07
[05:59] <mrevell> theCore: sorry to hear that
[05:59] <mrevell> theCore: I'll put a report up on the wiki and will announce it on launchpad-users
[06:00] <theCore> so, I better say now what I wanted to say
[06:00] <mrevell> theCore: ok
[06:00] <mrevell> theCore: Wanna private message me and I'll raise it for you
[06:00] <mrevell> Welcome to the first Launchpda users' meeting!
[06:01] <statik> hurrah, users!
[06:01] <mrevell> Here's the agenda:
[06:01] <mrevell>     *
[06:01] <mrevell>       Welcome
[06:01] <mrevell>     *
[06:01] <mrevell>       Agenda
[06:01] <mrevell>     *
[06:01] <mrevell>       Introduction to the Launchpad developers are who present
[06:01] <mrevell>     *
[06:01] <mrevell>       Invitation to beta team
[06:01] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Annoyance of the week
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       User questions
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Next meeting
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Welcome
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Agenda
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Introduction to the Launchpad developers are who present
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Invitation to beta team
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Annoyance of the week
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       User questions
[06:02] <mrevell>     *
[06:02] <mrevell>       Next meeting
[06:02] <mrevell> This is a chance for Launchpad's users to ask questions of and make suggestions to the Launchpad team.
[06:02] <mrevell> So, if you're a Launchpad developer, please say "hi" to let us know you're here
[06:03] <flacoste> hi
[06:03] <ddaa> hi
[06:03] <bac> hello
[06:03] <thumper> hi
[06:03] <mrevell> Thanks guys.
[06:03] <salgado> hello
[06:03] <mrevell> Iniviation to beta team
[06:04] <ddaa> Aren't we supposed to be introduced to?
[06:04] <mrevell> The Launchpad beta is well under way and is open to anyone who wants to have a role in shaping the future of Launchpad.
[06:04] <theCore> ok, gotta go, see ya all
[06:04] <mrevell> If you'd like to join the Launchpad beta, you can sign up at:
[06:05] <mrevell> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers/+members
[06:05] <mrevell> ddaa: Not sure what you mean
[06:05] <statik> hi
[06:05] <ddaa> The agenda reads "Introduction to the Launchpad developers are who present"
[06:05] <ddaa> ignore me if I'm just causing trouble
[06:06] <mrevell> ddaa: :) You said hello.
[06:06] <mrevell> ddaa: If that's not enough let's discuss it later :)
[06:06] <ddaa> ok
[06:06] <mrevell> Moving onto "Annoyance of the week"
[06:06] <mrevell> Each week, I'd like to gather input on what has frustrated you recently about Launchpad.
[06:07] <mrevell> I'll then take it to the Launchpad developers meeting, which happens each Thursday.
[06:07] <heno> the beta is veeeery slow ...
[06:07] <mrevell> So, if you'd like to report something that has annoyed or frustrated you about Launchpad, please tell us now.
[06:07] <heno> (my annoyance of the week)
[06:07] <mrevell> heno: Thanks.
[06:08] <mthaddon> heno: slower than the non-beta?
[06:08] <heno> mthaddon: yes, very
[06:08] <heno> it can take 10 seconds for a random bug page to load
[06:08] <mthaddon> I haven't played much with the non-beta recently, so can't comment, but that's interesting...
[06:08] <heno> non-beta might be 1-2 secs
[06:08] <mrevell> I haven't noticed beta be that slow.
[06:09] <Kuhrscher> the current status of the upstream translations import for Feisty annoyed me
[06:09] <heno> I'm actually surprised that the LP devs are not feeling this pain too
[06:09] <heno> it's a common topic in the distro meetings
[06:09] <ddaa> it actually seems to me that it got less slow recently... but maybe I just got used to it.
[06:10] <heno> (see the logs from last week :) )
[06:10] <mrevell> Are other people here noticing extreme slowness from beta?
[06:10] <salgado> today we seem to be experiencing some problems with our database server, which means the slowness won't be limited to beta
[06:10] <heno> I'll check with SteveA tomorrow at the meeting how his profiling is going
[06:10] <mrevell> Kuhrscher: Thanks, we've got a question about that coming up later.
[06:10] <mrevell> heno: Thanks.
[06:11] <thumper> I do, but I just thought it may have been that I'm in NZ :)
[06:11] <mrevell> Okay, any other points of annoyance that you'd like to raise?
[06:11] <heno> if we set up some instructions for how to do those, I'm sure others would help
[06:11] <salgado> (and I have to admit we're having quite a few timeouts today, probably because of that issue)
[06:11] <mrevell> heno: Set up profiling?
[06:11] <heno> the ooopses today are a separate issue I think
[06:12] <heno> mrevell: instructions on how to use firebug sensibly and collect logs, or whatever it does
[06:12] <jenda> guys - I know it's slightly OT, but any idea what's up with the CC elections?
[06:12] <salgado> heno, yes, it is. that's what I said
[06:12] <mrevell> heno: Right, thanks, noted.
[06:12] <mrevell> jenda: We're having a Launchpad users' meeting atm, you're welcome to join in.
[06:13] <jenda> ah
[06:13] <jenda> sorry to barge in like that ;)
[06:13] <mrevell> Okay, if there aren't any other annoyances that people would like to raise, we'll move on :)
[06:13] <mrevell> jenda: No worries :)
[06:13] <mrevell>        User questions
[06:14] <mrevell> Throughout the week, Launchpad users have added their questions to the meeting agenda.
[06:14] <mrevell> Here's the first.
[06:14] <mrevell> It will be GREAT to have upstream GNOME distribution translation ability!Will we benefit this in a near future? Vladimer Sichinava GNOME/Ubuntu translator.
[06:14] <mrevell> danilos: Is that something you can answer?
[06:15] <mrevell> And is Vladimer here today?
[06:15] <mrevell> Okay, I'll seek an answer and give it in the next user meeting.
[06:15] <danilos> mrevell: I'd like to provide that as well since I am also a GTP spokesperson and Serbian GNOME team coordinator, but it depends on other priorities (it's definitely something we want to have, but we can't set a date on it)
[06:16] <mrevell> danilos: Ah, thanks.
[06:16] <mrevell> danilos: It appears Vladimer isn't in the meeting, so hopefully he'll see the post-meeting report.
[06:16] <mrevell> Moving onto the next question.
[06:16] <mrevell> I'm not happy about the fact that there has never been a fixed date for Ubuntu translation opening. Although I respect Rosetta developers, I feel bad about us having less than a month to prepare the Feisty translations. We (the Czech team) have already found a number of regressions from Edgy and it will be difficult to fix all those bugs and make Ubuntu better translated in time. I often have a feeling that although Ubu
[06:16] <mrevell> ntu prides itself with our translations, we don't get much credit and respect within the Launchpad paid developers/Canonical. Can this issue be better resolved in the future? -- MartinBhm
[06:17] <mrevell> mhb: That's your question, I believe.
[06:17] <mhb> yes, it is
[06:18] <mrevell> mhb: The Launchpad team and Canonical do greatly value the Ubuntu translators. I believe that the process for opening translations for Feisty+1 will be smoother.
[06:19] <heno> Perhaps we should do an informal impact study on this kind of thing: what is more disruptive having Launchpad down for a day or delaying translation import until it's almost too late? This issue will likely be fixes properly at some point, but similar dilemmas could come up later
[06:19] <mhb> mrevell: I think there was the same belief for feisty as the edgy opening was also relatively late
[06:19] <mrevell> mhb: You say don't feel the Launchpad team gives translators much credit or respect. How could we improve that impression?
[06:19] <carlos> mhb: the idea is to have a fixed date for open it, but Edgy and Feisty had some technical problems involved
[06:19] <carlos> that delayed the process much more than expected
[06:19] <Kuhrscher> I hope it would also be possible to lock the translation until all imports are done.
[06:20] <carlos> Kuhrscher: there is already a bug to do that, yes
[06:20] <Kuhrscher> carlos: nice to hear
[06:20] <mhb> mrevell: we can't make any changes to the timetable, so creating one for the opening &really make it happen at the fixed date would be great
[06:20] <mhb> mrevell: we can't say "there has been so little time, give us more"
[06:21] <mhb> mrevell: and I think other teams should not have that privilege either
[06:21] <mrevell> mhb: I'm sorry that the Feisty translations opening date has been held up, giving you little time.
[06:22] <Kuhrscher> Could we introduce the next release some time to check the imports for bugs _before_ the translation is opened?
[06:22] <carlos> Kuhrscher: it was not a 'bug' problem
[06:22] <carlos> but a performance problem
[06:23] <mrevell> mhb: We do want to keep to the dates for opening translations and I'm sure that, having found out more about what can go wrong, Feisty+1 will be much improved.
[06:23] <Kuhrscher> carlos: The last two releases there had been a lot of failed imports...
[06:23] <carlos> mhb: Well, that's a problem, yes. But we keep releasing translations updates even after final release. It's not the solution to the problem, of course, but It mitigates a bit the problem of being late or the lack of time before final release
[06:23] <Kuhrscher> or wrong templates...
[06:23] <mhb> carlos: AFAIK, the updates were delayed a lot, too
[06:24] <mrevell> mhb: I'm not sure what you mean about teams having priveleges to ask for extra time.
[06:24] <danilos> Kuhrscher: it might also be due to incompatible change in GNU gettext msgfmt (a lot of failed imports I see is due to this)
[06:24] <mhb> mrevell: I meant that the Rosetta folks can say that, because they don't have a fixed date for the opening
[06:24] <carlos> Kuhrscher: most of the time is a bug in the package not in the import process itself
[06:24] <danilos> Kuhrscher: (msgfmt was changed to require '%d' in all plural form messages with 0.15, and earlier versions allowed eg. singular form not to have it)
[06:25] <mhb> mrevell: can you or someone else make sure that the "Rosetta opening" date will be set in the Feisty+1 release schedule?
[06:25] <mhb> mrevell: and that the Rosetta folks start testing early enough so that they can open the translation up at that date?
[06:25] <Kuhrscher> Sure, but it would be best to start the translation process only if all those problems are identified and fixed.
[06:26] <carlos> mhb: the updates should be more or less done monthly, that's why we have daily snapshots. I think there are some delays from time to time, but I know Martin tries to do one update each month first Monday of each month
[06:27] <mhb> carlos: as far as I remember there were close to zero Edgy translations updates before January (that's what some of the translator said, I am not sure about this)
[06:28] <mhb> carlos: having a fixed date early enough and really open translations at that date matters more for me, though
[06:29] <carlos> mhb: I don't think it was so late.. let me check...
[06:30] <mrevell> mhb: As I understand, the improvements we've made to Launchpad will mean that we can open Feisty+1 translations as soon as Feisty+1 has created in Launchpad. That should mean we can give a date for translations opening and that it will give you much more time.
[06:30] <carlos> mhb: For the Spanish one, there were updates almost every month since release...
[06:30] <carlos> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-es
[06:30] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-es
[06:31] <mhb> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-cs/
[06:31] <carlos> mrevell: well, we still need to implement some changes to be able to do that without turning launchpad off
[06:31] <Kuhrscher> Please start this translating period after the UpstreamVersionFreeze.
[06:31] <carlos> mrevell: but the idea is that one
[06:32] <mrevell> carlos: Thanks for the clarification.
[06:32] <Kuhrscher> Just to avoid interference with the upstream translators...
[06:32] <mhb> carlos: can you do it fast enough then?
[06:32] <mhb> carlos: and really set the date in the Feisty+1ReleaseSchedule and open it then?
[06:32] <mhb> with more than a month for us?
[06:33] <ddaa> Shutting down launchpad for a day is not really an option, since we want to attract upstreams that may not be interested in translations
[06:33] <carlos> mhb: not really fast enough, but without turning launchpad down
[06:33] <ddaa> but may be interested in bzr, or the bug tracking system
[06:33] <carlos> which is the main problem until now, how to schedule that
[06:33] <carlos> to avoid problems like what ddaa is pointing 
[06:33] <mhb> carlos: that's not much of a assurance for us
[06:34] <mhb> carlos: what do you mean by fast enough?
[06:34] <mhb> fixed dates is what would help a lot
[06:34] <carlos> mhb: what's your ideal date to do the opening?
[06:34] <heno> ddaa: right, but not delivering translation imports several times in a row will also leave a bad track record, which will also reach the ears of those upstreams
[06:34] <danilos> mhb: with 'not fast enough' carlos was thinking that the process will take a while (like a week when you'll be unable to do any translations), but we won't have to shut launchpad down completely
[06:35] <heno> It will stay on mailing list and IRC logs and can be googled forever :)
[06:35] <carlos> anyway, as Kuhrscher points, I don't think we should open translations 6 months before release...
[06:35] <carlos> so it should not be a problem
[06:35] <heno> one day of downtime may not be a bad alternative
[06:35] <carlos> heno: believe me, it is
[06:35] <mhb> carlos: perhaps after the DebianImportFreeze
[06:36] <danilos> also, you guys should consider one more problem with opening translations too early: you'll have to repeat work you do in feisty and feisty+1 unless we do the copying later on as well (we've designed it so we can do it, but I don't think we've done it so far)
[06:36] <ddaa> but presumably, disabling just translations for one week, would be less of a problem
[06:36] <ddaa> the issue is separation of concerns, people who do not care about the translation should not see their version control system server go offline because of them.
[06:36] <carlos> mhb: UBuntu's wiki page is being slow here
[06:37] <carlos> mhb: so I cannot check the schedule...
[06:37] <danilos> mhb: I am at least not that well into Ubuntu schedule and timeline, so it'd help if you gave exact dates, relative dates inside 6-month cycle or point me to a page where I can read on them :)
[06:37] <carlos> for the case of Feisty, when is that?
[06:37] <mhb> December 21st
[06:38] <carlos> that's 4 months before release, isn't it?
[06:38] <mhb> carlos: well, yes
[06:38] <mhb> carlos: the second important date for Ubuntu release cycle is 2 months after that
[06:38] <carlos> it would interfere with GNOME upstream translations, but that's doable
[06:39] <carlos> that gives us two months after opening a distro release so the process even being slow will be done at that time
[06:40] <mhb> carlos: it should happen some time before the FeatureFreeze, because that's relatively late in the process
[06:40] <carlos> as we will be 'hidding' the imports until it's done, we could start the opening at any time we want once Launchpad knows about that new distro release
[06:40] <carlos> mhb: I'm talking about DebianImportFreeze
[06:41] <carlos> the fact that we delay it until FeatureFreeze or not it up to you (the translators)
[06:41] <carlos> s/it up/is up/
[06:41] <mhb> carlos: I'm for opening it up as soon as possible
[06:41] <carlos> is that compromise enough?
[06:42] <danilos> carlos: do we plan to copy distrorelease to distrorelease+1 contributions even after distrorelease+1 is opened? if we don't, translators will have to do a lot of duplicate work if we open it too soon
[06:42] <mhb> carlos: sure, 3-4 months is enough time, I believe ... but please write that date in the Feisty+1ReleaseSchedule so we can count on it
[06:42] <danilos> mhb: ^^^ (iow, we want to schedule such copying as well)
[06:42] <carlos> danilos: if we are able to do the opening without turning launchpad offline, that's doable too
[06:43] <danilos> carlos: I know it's doable, but if we've got a date for one thing, we need a date for another as well
[06:44] <carlos> danilos: well, I would test how much time it would take and maybe, schedule it to be done once per month or something like that
[06:44] <carlos> but nothing we could schedule right now
[06:44] <carlos> the opening is something we could put in the schedule as a way to get the compromise of getting it done then
[06:45] <mhb> I guess that's answered, then.
[06:45] <mrevell> mhb: Thanks for your question.
[06:45] <mrevell> mhb: If you'd like to discuss it further, don't forget we have the launchpad-users mailing list.
[06:45] <mhb> and thank you for the answers
[06:45] <mrevell> Next questions also relates to Rosetta and is from mhb. We're running out of time, though, so please lets make the answers as quick as possible.
[06:46] <mrevell> One of the other things that make me believe Ubuntu translators and translations are being rather neglected is the fact that Launchpad/Rosetta has failed to implement a simple search tool for the translations. Without it Rosetta seems to be rather clumsy for fixing bugs and typos. As far as I know, the Launchpad/Rosetta developers are aware of this but almost since day 0 but still they haven't managed to implement it. T
[06:46] <mrevell> hey often claim it is very hard to implement but I think the lack of pressure from the community is another factor. I hope we can raise our voices louder so that even the paid developers know we really need it sooner than for a feisty+2 or even later. A fixed date for it would be nice, as it seems there are little fixed dates in the development process. -- MartinBhm
[06:46] <mrevell> So, the question is: When can we have searchable translations in Launchpad?
[06:46] <carlos> danilos: that one is for you ;-)
[06:46] <kiko> mrevell, you can search using google, perhaps.
[06:47] <kiko> we now allow google to index our translation pages
[06:47] <carlos> mhb: just as a brief answer, google has been indexing us since a January
[06:47] <carlos> so you should be able to use that as a workaround (that's why we did that change)
[06:47] <mrevell> mhb: Do you want to try with Google and report to launchpad-users how you get on?
[06:47] <danilos> another point is that we've got a huge database (which is what makes text search hard), and we've been working on improving it, so we should have something in the near future (though, more DB changes will be required)
[06:48] <mrevell> carlos, kiko, danilos: Thanks for the suggestions and for giving an insight into why we don't yet have searchable translations.
[06:48] <mrevell> The next question is also related to searching, but searching of bugs:
[06:48] <mrevell> Are there any plans for improving search facilities in Launchpad? It always strikes me how difficult it is to find something using only keyword search compared to Bugzilla's "Advanced Query" panel. -- DavorCubranic
[06:49] <mrevell> Davor, are you here?
[06:49] <mrevell> carlos: Thank you for your input this evening!
[06:49] <kiko> mrevell, well, we do offer advanced searching too.
[06:49] <flacoste> this is not a definitive answer, but we are upgrading to PosgreSQL 8.2 which will allow us to improve greatly our text searches
[06:50] <flacoste> or so says our DBA
[06:50] <heno> We should perhaps look at integrating some of the search features developed in bughelper directly in LP
[06:50] <Kuhrscher> He is absoultely right. I it is very difficult to find bugs even if you know it is existing...
[06:50] <mrevell> flacoste, kiko: Thanks. It looks as though Davor isn't here, so hopefully he'll see your replies in the meeting report.
[06:51] <danilos> thanks for the questions, and don't forget that you can always email us or catch us here in #launchpad as well
[06:51] <mrevell> Okay, moving onto the next question.
[06:52] <mrevell> "the bug numbers are atomic, so it would be convenient that the search box (or another text box) acts like a quick "go to" when you enter a bug number
[06:52] <mrevell>  tabs should be click-able everywhere on it, not just on the text   
[06:52] <mrevell>  disabled tabs should disappears or have another color"
[06:52] <mrevell> That question is from TheCore, who had to leave early. BjornT is that something you could answer?
[06:53] <ddaa> tabs clickable everywhere has a bug currently assigned to Usman
[06:53] <mrevell> BjornT: As far as I know, the search box does allow you to enter a bug number.
[06:53] <mrevell> ddaa: thanks
[06:53] <ddaa> jump-to-bug-number currently works, and there's a bug open about changing it because it prevents searching for numbers
[06:54] <mrevell> ddaa: Thank you.
[06:54] <ddaa> But it does not appear to work in the global search
[06:54] <mrevell> We had a number of other questions as well, relating to Rosetta. I'll post those to the launchpad-users list, along with the other questions from tonight's meeting.
[06:54] <mrevell> Do any users present have questions that were not raised in the agenda?
[06:55] <ddaa> yeah, it only works in the bug search box
[06:55] <alex_muntada> mrevell: when will next meeting take place?
[06:55] <mrevell> alex_muntada: Aha :) That's the next item on the agenda.
[06:55] <alex_muntada> :)
[06:55] <mthaddon> Is there any date in mind (fixed or simply targeted) for the release of UI 1.0?
[06:55] <Kuhrscher> We don't talk about Rosetta?
[06:56] <mrevell> Kuhrscher: Quite a large part of the meeting has been about Rosetta-related issues. Unfortunately, both main Rosetta developers have had to leave now. I'll raise the remaining questions on the launchpad-users list.
[06:57] <Kuhrscher> That's really annoying...
[06:58] <mrevell> mthaddon: We want Launchpad 1.0 to be perfect before we make it the default choice for Launchpad users. However, you can use the beta right now.
[06:58] <ddaa> would be nice to have it happen sooner than later
[06:59] <thumper> well, it'll never be perfect
[06:59] <ddaa> dealing with the divergence between production and rocketfuel will become increasingly painful
[06:59] <thumper> we just want it to look good and work
[06:59] <alex_muntada> Any news about LP UI translation?
[06:59] <mthaddon> mrevell, I agree, but am wondering if there's a targeted date for that or just "when it's ready"?
[06:59] <kiko> okay, off the phone!
[06:59] <mrevell> Kuhrscher: I'm sorry that we haven't got to your questions. It's the first time we've run the meeting, so please blame me for my lack of experience.
[07:00] <flacoste> alex_muntada: the localization of the Answer Tracker is targeted for after the 1.0 release
[07:00] <mrevell> mthaddon: Much like a pint of Guinness, when it's ready :)
[07:00] <kiko> about a date for 1.0; right now the issue is polish and warts. there are a lot of warts and quite a bit of polish but there is no heavy lifting to be done
[07:00] <alex_muntada> flacoste: too bad :(
[07:00] <Kuhrscher> Sorry, but my impression is that upstream i18n issues are always treated like that :(
[07:00] <mthaddon> mrevell: gotcha - well much like a pint of Guinness it's looking pretty good right now and I'm sure it'll taste great when it's done
[07:00] <kiko> so it's more a matter of weeks than months.
[07:01] <mrevell> mthaddon: :)
[07:01] <Kuhrscher> And that is not only my impression...
[07:01] <kiko> that's a great way of not giving a deadline isn't it?
[07:01] <kiko> Kuhrscher, we give upstream i18n a lot of priority, but the truth is that rosetta is not a trivial application, and that work there takes time.
[07:02] <kiko> we've had a lot of serious performance issues over the past six months, and fixing those issues takes effort; not bean-counting effort, but debugging, refactoring, redesign, etc.
[07:02] <kiko> so I make no apologies for our lack of progress on that front, though I do promise that we are working hard on it and that there is a horizon of improvement.
[07:02] <ddaa> in other words, it's a freaking three headed cerberus, and one developer has to hold it down while the other developers tries to beats it down silly while jumping around to dodge the bites
[07:02] <Kuhrscher> kiko: To be honestly I don't see any improvements regarding the most annoying issues for us.
[07:02] <heno> kiko: that has a Pentagon ring to it ;p
[07:03] <kiko> Kuhrscher, I don't think that's a very fair comment.
[07:03] <heno> 'at a time of our choosing'
[07:04] <kiko> we've in the past three months: improved general performance significantly, improved the way the translation for is structured for reviewers, allowed public indexing and browsing of translations, improved the way both imports and exports were handled, and along the way, fixed dozens of bugs that affected "you"
[07:04] <kiko> we've also done major work towards implementing native support for firefox and openoffice translations
[07:04] <kiko> planned the next generation database schema
[07:05] <kiko> ... the list goes on. so I'm sure that you've seen some improvements; perhaps not the ones that annoy you the most, but we have many users, and it's hard to keep everybody happy.
[07:05] <mrevell> kiko: Thanks very much.
[07:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90429 in malone "Badly worded 'release manager' text when nominating a bug for a release" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90429
[07:06] <kiko> mrevell, about the bug searches; I'm not sure if the issue is that the advanced search is invisible, or if it's because the search isn't useful enough. it might be both!
[07:06] <kiko> when davor replies via launchpad-users we'll know. :)
[07:06] <mrevell> Kuhrscher: Again, I'm sorry that we didn't fully cover your questions. I'll get answers to them for you.
[07:06] <Kuhrscher> Kiko: Sorry, if I annoyed you.
[07:06] <mrevell> Thank you everyone for attending, for your questions and for your time.
[07:06] <mrevell> I propose the next meeting at 09:00 on Wednesday 14 March 07. Any objections?
[07:07] <Kuhrscher> Kiko: The only import point for me is, to have all upstremas translations in Rosetta and in the distribution.
[07:07] <kiko> Kuhrscher, sure. I'll relay that to carlos and danilos who have spent days and nights working to make it a better service. :)
[07:07] <thumper> mrevell: 9:00UTC?
[07:07] <bac> mrevell: that's pretty tough for the Americas.
[07:07] <mrevell> bac: Yeah, but 17:00 UTC is bad for Australia.
[07:07] <thumper> bac, but ok for ozzies
[07:07] <kiko> 9:00UTC? wow!
[07:08] <mrevell> thumper: Yeah
[07:08] <Kuhrscher> Kiko: And the last two releases there had been so many problems. If it is better now, no one will be happier than me :)
[07:08] <bac> mrevell: if it's alternating that's fine
[07:08] <mrevell> kiko: I can change it if it doesn't work, but I want to make sure we cater for .au and .nz
[07:08] <mrevell> bac: Yeah, I'll alternate.
[07:08] <kiko> Kuhrscher, I kind of want to slit my wrists at the performance issues to be honest. they are proving to be much harder to fix than we expected
[07:09] <kiko> we've made changes, waited to see them go live, and been dismayed at how bad things went
[07:09] <kiko> right now danilos has just landed a change which might improve things again
[07:09] <mrevell> Okay, well, thanks again everyone. Obviously you're free to continue your conversations, but I'll draw the official meeting to a close for this week.
[07:10] <Kuhrscher> Kiko: When does it make sense to look for failed imports to Feisty?
[07:10] <kiko> Kuhrscher, have you been looking at the imports page? Let me get you a URL
[07:10] <kiko> https://translations.beta.launchpad.net/translations/imports?target=distros&status=APPROVED&type=all
[07:11] <Kuhrscher> hmm I need a password ;-)
[07:13] <kiko> Kuhrscher, really? I thought that page was public! argh.
[07:13] <kiko> Kuhrscher, can you see /imports at all (without the arguments)?
[07:13] <Kuhrscher> Kiko: I applied for memebership in the beta team...
[07:13] <Kuhrscher> Kiko: No
[07:14] <Kuhrscher> "This site is accessible by launchpad admins and members of the Launchpad Beta Testers team only."
[07:15] <mrevell> Kuhrscher: When did yu apply?
[07:15] <Kuhrscher> two minutes ago...
[07:15] <kiko> oh. 
[07:15] <kiko> Kuhrscher, you can also drop the beta. in the URL :)
[07:16] <mrevell> Kuhrscher: Ah, right.
[07:16] <mrevell> Kuhrscher: If you can mail me - matthew.revell@canonical.com - to let me know you won't post screen shots of the beta interface, I'll approve your membership straight away
[07:17] <kiko> mrevell, I just got his membership request
[07:17] <mrevell> kiko: Okay, cool
[07:17] <Kuhrscher> Thank you :)
[07:19] <kiko> Kuhrscher, don't post screenshots or the easter bunny won't visit you
[07:19] <Kuhrscher> Sure ;-)
[07:20] <Kuhrscher> Is there any possibility to see if a specific package has already been imported? Like a search function?
[07:20] <kiko> uhm, uhhh, oh
[07:20] <kiko> apparently not
[07:20] <kiko> I can give you a hint though
[07:21] <kiko> you /can/ change the batch size and search manually
[07:21] <Kuhrscher> So how can find out if for example koffice-18n has been imported?
[07:21] <Kuhrscher> Only manually?
[07:21] <kiko> it seems like we're in the middle of KDE
[07:22] <kiko> yeah. that sucks! I didn't know
[07:25] <Kuhrscher> The template of KOffice in Rosetta seems to be actualized to 1.6.2 but all new translations are still missing. I know it is completly translated by upstream because I did it ;-)
[07:25] <Kuhrscher> But perhaps we just have to wait :)
[07:26] <kiko> might not have been imported yet
[07:26] <Kuhrscher> I hope so ;-)
[07:27] <dholbach> is  http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs  still OOPSing for people? (without beta)
[07:28] <Kuhrscher> Kiko: Is there any especial place to file all the bugs/issues regarding upstream imports to rosetta?
[07:28] <kiko> Kuhrscher, uhm, well, yes
[07:28] <Kuhrscher> Should we file bugs for each issue?
[07:28] <kiko> bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta
[07:28] <kiko> Kuhrscher, it depends on the type of issue I guess
[07:28] <kiko> but you can, yes
[07:28] <kiko> I think there's a tag for import problems
[07:28] <kiko> let me check
[07:28] <kiko> danilos?
[07:29] <kiko> or matsubara-lunch he is the man that knows these questions 
[07:29] <Kuhrscher> I think we should try to handle these issues before the translation process is opened...
[07:30] <Kuhrscher> If there aren't any problems like this I will send you a box of beer :)
[07:31] <kiko> what will I do with all that beer!
[07:32] <Kuhrscher> It's your choice ;-)
[07:33] <kiko> so I think what is planned to happen
[07:33] <kiko> is that we're going to finish imports
[07:33] <kiko> and then ask you to review them
[07:33] <kiko> and then get the remaining misses sorted out
[07:33] <kiko> or signed off
[07:34] <Kuhrscher> That sounds resonable
[07:35] <Kuhrscher> Do you have already "an idea" when it will be finished?
[07:36] <kiko> somebody needs to wake carlos and danilos up for me. :)
[07:36] <kiko> well
[07:36] <kiko> we started last thursday
[07:36] <kiko> and we had 44000 or more
[07:36] <kiko> right now we have some 20Ks
[07:36] <kiko> so it's coming down -- probably another week though
[07:36] <kiko> HOWEVER
[07:36] <kiko> danilo has provided a patch which improves a database query
[07:36] <kiko> which may increase that speed
[07:37] <kiko> if it's applied to production
[07:37] <kiko> and that is all
[07:37] <pochu> kiko: flood! :P
[07:37] <Kuhrscher> Ok, thank you for the information :)
[07:38] <kiko> the reason it is slow is because.. uhhh... martians have invaded the datacenter. I think
[07:38] <kiko> ah, I have a phone call now
[07:38] <kiko> great!
[07:39] <kiko> I <3 phone calls
[07:39] <Kuhrscher> Ohh ;-)
[07:40] <Kuhrscher> Ok, I have to leave. I still have to buy something to eat ;-)
[07:40] <Kuhrscher> Bye
[07:40] <kiko> laters
[07:51] <LaserJock> kiko: hi, sorry I missed the meeting :(
[07:51] <LaserJock> looks like it was full anyway  ;-)
[07:54] <beuno> I waited all week to report the "annoyance of the week"
[07:54] <beuno> small fonts  :(
[08:27] <kiko> :)
[08:42] <bdmurray> How does ownership of a team in launchpad get changed?
[08:45] <pochu> bdmurray: you should be the owner
[08:45] <pochu> bdmurray: and in the left pannel, there is an option: "Change owner"
[08:48] <bdmurray> pochu: I'm an administrator but probably should be the owner.  The current owner isn't around.
[08:50] <pochu> bdmurray: yes, you have to be the owner
[08:50] <pochu> otherwise, that option will not appear
[08:53] <bdmurray> Could an lp admin fix it then?
[08:54] <matsubara> bdmurray: which team? who should be the new owner (launchpad id)?
[08:55] <bdmurray> matsubara: ubuntu-qa and brian-murray should be the owner
[08:56] <LaserJock> doesn't sfllaw own ubuntu-qa?
[09:06] <sfllaw> bdmurray: You're the owner of Ubuntu QA now.
[09:07] <bdmurray> sfllaw: okay, thanks. How are you?
[09:07] <sfllaw> bdmurray: Pretty good.  Let me know if you need anything I've got a lock on.
[09:07] <pochu> heya sfllaw!
[09:08] <bdmurray> sfllaw: Okay. Is there another e-mail address for you?
[09:08] <sfllaw> pochu: Hello.
[09:08] <pochu> sfllaw: nice to see you again in a Hug Day :D
[09:08] <sfllaw> bdmurray: sfllaw@law.yi.org
[09:22] <flacoste> ddaa: ping
[09:22] <thumper> ddaa: ping 2
[09:23] <flacoste> hey thumper, you can probably answer my question: do you know if we have a Zope3 SVN import set up?
[09:23] <thumper> flacoste: I'm not entirely sure, but I know that if we don't we will have soon...
[09:23] <ddaa> flumposte: pong
[09:23] <flacoste> ddaa: do we have an import setup for Zope3 SVN?
[09:25] <ddaa> checks
[09:26] <thumper> ddaa: I thought that you had run away for a second there
[09:26] <ddaa> I'm just ping-thrashing
[09:26] <LaserJock> he had to go out back to find zope ;-)
[09:27] <ddaa> so, there's a zope3 thing that's testfailed
[09:28] <ddaa> which is blowing on this mysterious assertion in svn_subst_translate_stream3
[09:28] <ddaa> Assertion `eol_str || keywords' failed.
[09:28] <ddaa> when doing svn_client_checkout
[09:28] <ddaa> how brain-damaged is that?
[09:29] <flacoste> you tell me!
[09:29] <ddaa> very, very much
[09:29] <ddaa> I expect to have this problem fixed by bypassing keyword expansion entirely in imports
[09:29] <ddaa> unless somebody can give me a better idea
[09:30] <ddaa> which will be possible using svn_ra
[09:31] <ddaa> which leads us the infamous problem "python svn bindings are pain"
[09:31] <ddaa> not easily fixable without upgrading the importd systems to edgy...
[09:32] <ddaa> or maybe this specific bit of API is acutally usable on dapper...
[09:32] <BjornT> iirc cscvs doesn't handle svn externals, or does it? zope3 uses that quite a lot.
[09:32] <ddaa> well... not something I can fix tonight, for sure
[09:32] <ddaa> BjornT: it ignores them entirely
[09:33] <ddaa> each external should be imported separately
[09:33] <thumper> ddaa: I understand that the zope guys are looking to break stuff up into separate repositories
[09:33] <ddaa> which is the meaningful thing to do until a long time in the future
[09:33] <thumper> and use python eggs
[09:33] <thumper> but I don't know their timeline
[09:34] <ddaa> the "long time in the future" thing is when we have redesign the import system enough to have a single import tied to multiple branches and multiple productseries...
[09:34] <thumper> flacoste: I guess the answer is no then
[09:34] <flacoste> yeah, that's what I understood
[09:34] <ddaa> should I add this to my todo list?
[09:34] <thumper> ddaa: I was just going to catch up and see how things are going for you and what you're doing now
[09:35] <thumper> ddaa: what zope3?
[09:35] <ddaa> yes, zope3
[09:35] <ddaa> I could try a shortcut
[09:35] <thumper> ddaa: I'd say yes
[09:36] <ddaa> okay, added it near the bottom of my todo, just before "cvscvs pyrex"...
[09:37] <flacoste> ddaa:  I don't know if an import of zope3 is a priority, SteveA would be the one to ask
[09:37] <ddaa> thumper: at the moment, trying to deal with an anomalously high rate of pings
[09:38] <thumper> ddaa: what do you mean?
[09:38] <ddaa> flacoste: I'd be happy to talk with SteveA about reshuffling my todo list :)
[09:38] <thumper> ddaa: what's on your todo list?
[09:38] <ddaa> thumper: I mean I have two other things calling for my attention at the moment :)
[09:38] <thumper> ddaa: I know what you mean
[09:39] <thumper> I am in the middle of another production cycle of the mag I edit
[09:39] <thumper> and I have to write my conference talk
[09:39] <ddaa> thumper: here's what's next https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileKEblOC.html
[09:39] <ddaa> not counting branches that are pending review
[09:40] <thumper> ok
[09:40] <thumper> I've got another couple of things to chuck into that list
[09:40] <thumper> but they are more interesting dev things
[09:40] <thumper> like the import db refactoring
[09:40] <ddaa> actually, branch-puller errors fixage is probably going to be one big branch with some other fixes too
[09:40] <thumper> and the import ui pages
[09:40] <ddaa> and and reviewing specs and stuff from you and jml
[09:41] <thumper> ddaa: of course :)
[09:41] <ddaa> when you need my attention, it makes it right at the top of the list
[09:42] <ddaa> so this todo list looks like two months until I can get to zope3, at the current pace...
[09:42] <ddaa> doing insane amount of context-switching and review and chat nowadays
[09:42] <ddaa> eating most of my time
[09:43] <thumper> ddaa: there is a great design pattern for working that I try to follow:
[09:43] <thumper> Don't interrupt and interrupt
[09:43] <thumper> s/and/an/
[09:44] <lifeless> ddaa is low latency
[09:44] <lifeless> :)
[09:44] <ddaa> lifeless: actually, this benchmarking you asked me about is in my short-term memory queue now...
[09:44] <thumper> paraphrased: if you have contexted switched to do something else, don't switch to yet a third thing until number two is done
[09:44] <ddaa> so not terribly good at real-time :)
[09:44] <lifeless> ddaa: I'm happy to do it if its not trivial
[09:44] <ddaa> not hard
[09:45] <ddaa> just busy
[09:45] <lifeless> ddaa: upgrade takes about 5 seconds
[09:45] <lifeless> :)
[09:45] <ddaa> thumper: so, you wanted me to add some things to this list?
[09:45] <lifeless> barry: ping
[09:45] <ddaa> or are they things I can act on reactively?
[09:46] <thumper> ddaa: they can wait a bit until your queue is a little shorter, but I'd like them on there
[09:46] <thumper> ^^^^
[09:47] <ddaa> what do you mean by "import ui pages"?
[09:47] <thumper> ddaa: the items were mentioned above: db refactoring for import
[09:47] <thumper> ddaa: listings of various import statuses, whiteboard in imports et al
[09:47] <thumper> ddaa: the things we talked about on the explicit branch type spec
[09:48] <thumper> ddaa: however if you really think that you'd not be able to get to these within the next month or two
[09:48] <thumper> I might talk to jml about them
[09:48] <ddaa> actually, I'd rather dump some items from my current list to jml
[09:49] <ddaa> such as fixing the branch-puller errors, correct check after remirroring, sftp server oopses
[09:49] <ddaa> and better importstatus control
[09:50] <lifeless> we need a bzrlib upgrade for launchpad too
[09:50] <lifeless> to support 0.15
[09:50] <thumper> lifeless: when is 0.15 released?
[09:51] <lifeless> thumper: rc1 is out now, dont expect anything revolutionary, and ~ a week to the final
[09:51] <thumper> lifeless: ok
[09:51] <lifeless> some real performance gains in there
[09:52] <thumper> lifeless: as a bzr person, please tell me what you'd like changed on the code.lp.net bits
[09:52] <lifeless> in general, or specifically relating to 0.15 ?
[09:52] <thumper> especially if there is something that just doesn't work well
[09:52] <thumper> lifeless: in general
[09:52] <ryanakca> Hmm... is there any way to show all the untranslated strings for feisty in say... french?
[09:52] <lifeless> these lines:
[09:52] <lifeless> Revision 17 by David Allouche <david.allouche@canonical.com> (2007-01-15)
[09:52] <lifeless> fast implementation of xml5._encode_and_escape and friends
[09:52] <thumper> I do have feature requests piling up, so more interested in PITAs
[09:53] <lifeless> the revision X line is HUGE, and the revision log much smaller
[09:53] <lifeless> it weirds me out
[09:53] <ryanakca> or to sort all the apps so that it shows you the ones with the most or the least untranslated strings first?
[09:53] <lifeless> thats on https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~ddaa/+junk/bzr-pyrex
[09:53] <ryanakca> (good job on the beta, btw)
[09:54] <thumper> lifeless: that's wierd
[09:54] <thumper> it doesn't look too different on my monitor
[09:55] <thumper> is there somewhere I could paste a screenshot to you?
[09:55] <lifeless> thumper: by HUGE I mean nearly twice the height of the revision log text
[09:55] <lifeless> I'll grab one for you
[09:56] <thumper> lifeless: mine is about 20% bigger
[09:58] <lifeless> devpad.canonical.com:~robertc/foo.png
[10:00] <lifeless> thumper: I'd like a dbus listener to tell lp when I've pushed to non hosted url's
[10:00] <ddaa> about this UI thing
[10:00] <ddaa> talked about it with jml this morning
[10:01] <ddaa> I agree it's ugly
[10:01] <ddaa> he agrees and will talk with mpt about it
[10:01] <ddaa> specifically, what weirds me out is the color of the revision line, to light on white background
[10:05] <thumper> lifeless: min looks like devpad.canonical.com:~tim/snapshot.png
[10:05] <thumper> s/min/mine/
[10:06] <lifeless> that looks more tasteful than what I see
[10:06] <carlos> kiko: hi
[10:07] <thumper> lifeless: which browser do you use?
[10:07] <lifeless> firefox today
[10:07] <thumper> hmm.. me too
[10:08] <thumper> ryanakca: the main rosetta devs have left for the day, sorry I can't answer this
[10:09] <ryanakca> kk, and another problem I'm having, https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ , pick "newest first" from the menu and go search.
[10:09] <ryanakca> It keeps on giving me "Ooops!"
[10:10] <gnomefreak> is the launchpad users mailing list down? i sent a post there and got PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 501 <launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com.>: domain missing or malformed
[10:11] <ryanakca> hey gnomefreak
[10:11] <gnomefreak> hi ryanakca 
[10:12] <carlos> gnomefreak: I'm not sure, but the ending dot at '.com.' looks suspicious
[10:12] <gnomefreak> i saw that im trying again
[10:13] <ryanakca> gnomefreak: dunno, it's there, I can ping it... and telnet lists.canonical.com 25 give me "220 esperanza.ubuntu.com ESMTP Exim 4.60 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:12:06 +0000"
[10:13] <gnomefreak> sent again
[10:13] <gnomefreak> without the "." at the end
[10:14] <thumper> ryanakca: I tried the ubuntu bugs, and it worked for me...
[10:14] <ryanakca> hmm...
[10:23] <pochu> gnomefreak: I have your message
[10:23] <pochu> gnomefreak: oops, right?
[10:23] <gnomefreak> ok last time sent cool :)
[10:23] <gnomefreak> yep
[10:32] <gnomefreak> this damn oops crap is getting to me :(
[10:33] <gnomefreak> that time refresh worked
[10:41] <ryanakca> gnomefreak: I'm getting that too
[10:42] <gnomefreak> on beta i get it alot just going to LP links. on beta nd stable i cant file bug. :(
[10:44] <kiko> gnomefreak, can you give me OOPS IDs?
[10:45] <gnomefreak> kiko: i sent one in the email
[10:46] <gnomefreak> kiko: OOPS-431BA485 for unable to file bug
[10:46] <kiko> so in BA. okay, matsubara showed me that one. any others?
[10:46] <pochu> kiko: also in beta :)
[10:46] <gnomefreak> i didnt keep them 
[10:47] <gnomefreak> i will when i see it again 
[10:47] <kiko> yeah, ok. we'll know of all of them in tonight's report anyway
[10:48] <gnomefreak> ok cool
[10:48] <kiko> it will be a depressing report though
[10:49] <ajmitch> kiko: think of it providing plenty of opportunities
[10:55] <kiko> ajmitch, for depressing oneself?
[10:57] <ajmitch> for improvement of the code, a chance to broaden your horizons
[10:58] <ajmitch> heh
[10:58] <lifeless> huh
[10:58] <lifeless> how do you get to the changelog for a release in launchpad ?
[10:59] <LaserJock> like for a package?
[10:59] <jml> or for launchpad?
[10:59] <lifeless> no, for a release
[10:59] <lifeless> https://beta.launchpad.net/bzr/0.15/0.15rc1
[10:59] <lifeless> has a changelog in it
[11:00] <lifeless> but I canna see how to get it out again :)
[11:00] <elmo> https://beta.launchpad.net/bzr/0.15/0.15rc1/+edit ?
[11:00] <lifeless> elmo: not to change it, to view it
[11:00] <lifeless> you know, something users like doing
[11:01] <kiko> are you trying to confuse us all lifeless?
[11:02] <elmo> lifeless: uh, when I go to the URL you pasted, I do get to view it?
[11:03] <LarstiQ> elmo: sure, but I don't expect users to guess it :P
[11:03] <LarstiQ> kiko: it has confused me in the past registering bzr releases too
[11:03] <lifeless> elmo: huh? I cant see it
[11:03] <lifeless> elmo: its like 10 pages long the changelog
[11:04] <kiko> oh
[11:04] <kiko> wow
[11:05] <elmo> lifeless: oh, duh, sorry - I see what you mean -yeah that seems to be missing
[11:05] <kiko> yeah, same here
[11:06] <lifeless> so, robert finds bug, news at 11
[11:06] <lifeless> :)
[11:06] <gnomefreak> i saw a download for the full change log
[11:06] <lifeless> gnomefreak: whats the url ?
[11:07] <kiko> really?
[11:07] <LaserJock> lifeless: I can't even get to +edit so I'm guessing many users won't either
[11:07] <lifeless> LaserJock: +edit is unrelated :)
[11:07] <gnomefreak> https://beta.launchpad.net/bzr/0.15/0.15rc1 look in top left hand corner
[11:07] <LaserJock> lifeless: exactly
[11:07] <gnomefreak> PDF file
[11:08] <LaserJock> RDF?
[11:08] <gnomefreak> yeah maybe that instead
[11:09] <gnomefreak> i lost my glasses for reading :(
[11:09] <LaserJock> kiko: did you ever subscribe me to any bugs? I can't remember if you said you were going to do that while you were going through my list
[11:09] <lifeless> gnomefreak: yeah, thats xml though, not regular web UI niceness
[11:09] <gnomefreak> and for some reason beta print is alot smaller than stable is
[11:09] <gnomefreak> ah
[11:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90476 in launchpad-bazaar "Better import status control from web user interface" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90476
[11:11] <kiko> LaserJock, no, it's on my TODO :-(
[11:11] <jml> if a fix for a regular and beta bug is on beta, is that fix-released?
[11:11] <LaserJock> kiko: np, I was just going to go through and do it if you hadn't
[11:13] <LaserJock> kiko: is there an RSS feed or some way to track launchpad bugs? I've lost where I was and want to look for newer bugs 
[11:13] <ddaa> good night folks
[11:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90483 in launchpad-bazaar "Redo consistency checks when branch format changes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90483
[11:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90484 in launchpad-bazaar "SFTP server OOPSes" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90484
[11:28] <kiko> LaserJock, there is none, really. would you like to see only newer bugs?
[11:29] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[11:29] <jml> mpt: Good morning!
[11:30] <jml> mpt: may I talk with you about a page on beta?
[11:30] <mpt> sure
[11:30] <mpt> (holy crap Thunderbird is annoying)
[11:30] <jml> mpt: https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/0.10
[11:31] <kiko> mpt!
[11:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90487 in launchpad-bazaar "Improve branch puller error reporting" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90487
[11:31] <kiko> have you received mail from SteveA?
[11:31] <mpt> kiko, probably, let me look
[11:31] <mpt> yes, I have a couple from him
[11:31] <jml> mpt: I'd like to make that page more readable.
[11:32] <mpt> Oh cool, there's some stuff for the multiple page templates
[11:32] <jml> (part of the problem is that the pqm plugin encourages single-line commit messages)
[11:33] <mpt> Great, X-Chat thinks Konqueror is my default Web browser
[11:33] <mpt> and my swap partition's AWOL
[11:34] <mpt> jml, ah, so these are the famous <h3>s
[11:34] <jml> mpt: right :)
[11:35] <jml> mpt: ddaa and I discussed possibly using the bug comment style
[11:35] <mpt> jml, so what will be the distribution of commit messages generally? 70% less than 200 characters? 50%? 30%?
[11:35] <mpt> If that page is typical, using <h3> is probably too heavy
[11:36] <mpt> And is "due to a bug in a new" an accident by the person who wrote the commit message, or is it a bug somewhere else?
[11:36] <jml> I honestly don't know
[11:37] <mpt> ok
[11:37] <jml> mpt: that page will certainly be typical for branches managed by PQM (given that it doesn't pop up an editor on submit)
[11:38] <mpt> so probably you want either a <ul> or a <table>
[11:39] <mpt> jml, why are you giving each section an id= ?
[11:39] <jml> mpt: to make it easier to test.
[11:39] <mpt> ok
[11:40] <mpt> Will revision numbers ever be something other than integers?
[11:41] <sinzui> mpt: I have a css color question for lp
[11:41] <jml> mpt: not as far as I know.
[11:41] <mpt> jml, then I suggest an <ol>
[11:42] <jml> mpt: how should the author and date be formatted?
[11:43] <mpt> with <li tal:attributes="value rev_no"><div>commiter, date</div>commit message</li>
[11:43] <thumper> mpt: SteveA told me to tell you to reply to his emails :-)
[11:43] <mpt> thank you thumper, I will :-)
[11:44] <thumper> mpt: I also want to ask you about beta bugs for code pages that need fixing
[11:44] <thumper> mpt: I just want to make sure I'm not blocking anything
[11:44] <mpt> thumper, you're not blocking anything that I know of, I have mountains of work to do
[11:45] <thumper> mpt: ok
[11:45] <thumper> mpt: just let me know if you come across anything that I could either help with or applies to the code pages
[11:46] <mpt> thank you
[11:46] <jml> mpt: ok. I'll make that change today. Do you want to have a look at it before I trivial it through?
[11:47] <mpt> jml, sure
[11:47] <mpt> There is no obvious HTML solution to this sort of problem
[11:48] <jml> yeah.
[11:48] <jml> mpt: anyway, thanks. I'll let you get back to the mountain :)
[11:48] <mpt> http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/04/20/sq.html
[11:50] <mpt> sinzui, you still have a question? :-)
[11:50] <jkakar> There's no "Report a bug" link on this page: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/bazaar/+bugs but there is on the same page for the 'bzr' product.  I was able to file a bug by typing in a URL like .../bazaar/+filebug (which was before I discovered the 'bzr' product)
[11:50] <sinzui> mpt: yes
[11:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #90493 in launchpad-bazaar "List of branches view focus defaults to "Show branches with status of" pulldown" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90493
[11:50] <LarstiQ> jkakar: so what were you trying to do with /bazaar/+filebug?
[11:51] <jkakar> LarstiQ: File a bug. :)
[11:51] <LarstiQ> jkakar: on what though? :)
[11:51] <sinzui> mpt: I added a highlight to tbody rows all tables with .listing when the mouse hovers over it. I choose to create a light grey class instead of reusing .highlight.
[11:52] <sinzui> mpt: is .highlight intended to call-out a single row in a table?
[11:52] <jkakar> LarstiQ: A problem where I had to rnu generate_revision_history() on a couple of branches to fix broken committing with a bound branch.
[11:52] <jkakar> LarstiQ: ie: Against the " bzr" command line program.
[11:53] <jkakar> LarstiQ: I never thought to look for a "bzr" product since it's referred to as "Bazaar" everywhere.
[11:54] <mpt> jkakar, you're right, that's a bug left over from when you couldn't report bugs on project groups
[11:54] <mpt> When that was made possible, a button was added to the project group page, but a link wasn't added to the project group Bugs page
[11:55] <jkakar> mpt: Oh.  What's a project group?
[11:55] <jkakar> mpt: Perhaps more importantly, will my bug report get to the right people?
[11:56] <mpt> sinzui, it's used whenever one thing of several needs highlighting. For example, in a bug page, class="highlight" is used for the table to highlight your current context.
[11:57] <mpt> aha
[11:57] <mpt> in product pages class="highlighted" is used to highlight the series that's the "current development focus"
[11:57] <mpt> highlight, highlighted, they shouldn't both exist...
[11:58] <sinzui> mpt: thanks. so mouseover events should be a different background-color. I lifted #eeeeee from another class for a new class called enhightlight
[11:58] <mpt> jkakar, "project group" is the new name for "project". "Project" is the new name for "product". Neither of these changes are fully implemented yet.
[11:58] <mpt> sinzui, are you greasemonkeying, or user.css-ing?
[11:59] <jkakar> mpt: Ah, okay.  Thanks.
[11:59] <mpt> jkakar, so <https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/bazaar/+bugs> should link to <https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/bazaar/+filebug>
[11:59] <mpt> and you see that the first field in that page is asking you which product to report the bug against
[11:59] <sinzui> mpt: I think I'm doing both.
[12:00] <sinzui> mpt: This is the effect given in the example
[12:00] <sinzui> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?bug_status=MODIFIED&version=devel
[12:00] <mpt> sinzui, very interesting, perhaps you could e-mail me the results once you're done :-)
[12:00] <LarstiQ> mpt: ugh, more confusement
[12:01] <mpt> LarstiQ, hmm?
[12:01] <LarstiQ> mpt: product/project renaming
[12:01] <mpt> oh, yeah, well
[12:02] <kiko> yeah
[12:02] <kiko> it's a long-term win
[12:02] <LarstiQ> jkakar: would what mpt just said about bazaar/+filebug asking about the product to file it against solve that problem of not looking for bzr instead of bazaar?
[12:02] <LarstiQ> kiko: oh probably, it just feels as a lot of changes of direction
[12:02] <mpt> sinzui, that seems a bit weird to me. I try to avoid hover effects in general, but where they are used, they usually indicate clickability. Not so in bugzilla.redhat.com, though.
[12:02] <kiko> LarstiQ, in this case it's a change of direction we all want! :)
[12:03] <jkakar> LarstiQ: Yup, I suspect it would help.  As someone not intimately familiar with the various contexts in LP I find it's often hard to know what you're looking at.  More clarification would help.
[12:03] <LarstiQ> kiko: so how about things like 'the gnome project'? :)
[12:03] <kiko> LarstiQ, that's illegal!!!
[12:03] <kiko> it's fine I think personally
[12:04] <LarstiQ> jkakar: ah, atm I'm selfishly only concerned with confusion about Bazaar ;)
[12:04] <mpt> LarstiQ, sorry, according to Launchpad, Gnome is not a project :-P
[12:04] <mpt> it's a group of projects
[12:04] <kiko> mpt, even in real life, if there is such a defined thing as a project
[12:04] <kiko> WHY AM I DISCUSSING THIS!!!!
[12:04] <sinzui> mpt: I agree. hence I'm engaging in a spurious solution. We are making wide lines more legible for scanning in exchange for ambiguity in behaviour.
[12:05] <sinzui> mpt: I'll send you a patch to observe.
[12:05] <LarstiQ> mpt: I agree it's better than previously
[12:05] <mpt> yes, it's an improvement.
[12:07] <mpt> lifeless, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347520
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 347520 in Mailer "From: address with no space between display name and "<" is parsed incorrectly" [Normal,Resolved: notabug]   - Assigned to evolution-mail-maintainers@ximian.com
[12:08] <LarstiQ> mpt: last interjection from me before I go to bed, were you working on having the original date, submitter visible by default on bugs?
[12:09] <mpt> LarstiQ, yes.
[12:09] <lifeless> mpt: ?
[12:10] <mpt> lifeless, it's a bug in PQM's mail notifications
[12:10] <LarstiQ> mpt: thanks
[12:11] <lifeless> mpt: file a bug on pqm please
[12:11] <mpt> ok