[12:15] <Fujitsu> Morning, LaserJock.
[12:16] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu 
[12:16] <Hobbsee> hey LaserJock, Fujitsu 
[12:17] <LaserJock> I want my bugs back :/
[12:17] <crimsun> err
[12:17] <crimsun> you can have mine if you really want bugs
[12:18] <LaserJock> not really
[12:18] <LaserJock> I want the LP bugs
[12:18] <crimsun> I promise there's never a dull moment
[12:18] <crimsun> and you'll learn to [love]  [cancel]  audio
[12:18] <LaserJock> I'd learn to ignore audio
[12:19] <LaserJock> I'm just not smart enough for that stuff
[12:21] <crimsun> trust me, it's not about "smart" but rather "persistence"
[12:22] <LaserJock> crimsun: perhaps, but at some point it's just smarter to leave it to the people who know what they are doing
[12:22] <LaserJock> I can hardly write a shell script
[12:22] <crimsun> I love how it's mostly  1) study docs, 2) code & recompile, 3) tinker, 4) break system, 5) curse broken docs, 6) GOTO [1] 
[12:23] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:23] <crimsun> see, we use GOTO statements, too
[12:23] <Hobbsee> haha
[12:23] <Hobbsee> yes, the docs for audio look pretty good
[12:23] <Hobbsee> when i browsed them one day, when my sound was screwed, and crimsun wasnt around
[12:27] <crimsun> oh, these be the manufacturer specs and data sheets
[12:27] <crimsun> "do this, it'll work"
[12:28] <crimsun> but...argh!
[12:31] <_MMA_> crimsun: Is there a deadline for bug-fixes?
[12:31] <LaserJock> release? :-)
[12:32] <crimsun> _MMA_: well, hopefully before feisty releases, yes ;)
[12:32] <_MMA_> Ok. :) (waiting patiently on Ardour2).
[12:32] <Monk-e> Doesn't bugfixing continue until the distro is reaches EOL?
[12:32] <Monk-e> -is
[12:33] <crimsun> Monk-e: yes, via SRU and security errata
[12:33] <Monk-e> I see.
[12:33] <crimsun> (although in reality, it's beyond that even)
[12:34] <_MMA_> We have the metas ready but cant update till Ardour and 2 packages already in the new queue go through.
[12:34] <_MMA_> /me hopes "new queue" is the right term.
[12:34] <Hobbsee> _MMA_: it is
[12:34] <_MMA_> ty
[12:53] <dsas> if someone has time could they upload the debdiff in bug 90686 ?
[12:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90686 in ontv "python-cElementTree dependency" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90686
[12:54] <crimsun> looking.
[12:55] <dsas> it's only a small trivial thing, I'm still playing with packaging...
[12:55] <crimsun> trivial fixes are still fixes.
[12:57] <crimsun> it's also a good idea to list the LP bug that's closed :)
[12:57] <crimsun> e.g., Closes: LP: #90686
[12:58] <dsas> oh yeah, I've saw lots of examples of that..should've thought of it.
[12:59] <Fujitsu> crimsun: The official syntax is (LP: #90686)
[01:00] <LaserJock> I think the official syntax is anything with LP: #number in it
[01:00] <crimsun> Fujitsu: interesting. ClosingBugsFromChangelog only necessitates "LP: #"
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Does it? Hm..
[01:01] <LaserJock> but in fact it *should* require (Closes LP: #numer)
[01:01] <Fujitsu> Indeed, the code doesn't require the brackets.
[01:01] <LaserJock> what happens if you are just mentioning a bug in a changelog
[01:01] <crimsun> dsas: uploaded, thanks
[01:01] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: then you're stuffed, of course.
[01:01] <LaserJock> you'd have to not use LP: #bumber
[01:01] <crimsun> LaserJock: see what I did with vlc ubuntu3
[01:01] <dsas> crimsun: thanks!
[01:01] <crimsun> all I did was omit the colon after "LP"
[01:02] <crimsun> intentional, since I wanted to reference that bug but not have it be closed
[01:02] <crimsun> [although the LP side does nothing yet that I know of] 
[01:03] <LaserJock> that does make sense
[01:03] <LaserJock> although I think it would make sense to have to put in "Closes" to close a bug
[01:09] <StevenK> LaserJock: But that is Debian uses.
[01:10] <StevenK> LaserJock: And what if you want to close a Debian bug as well as an Ubuntu bug in one upload...
[01:16] <LaserJock> StevenK: it should be (Closes LP: #number)
[01:17] <StevenK> LaserJock: I disagree, I quite like (LP: #.....)
[01:18] <LaserJock> but it's ambigious
[01:18] <LaserJock> you don't know if it's a reference or actually closing
[01:18] <LaserJock> unless you already know the policy, which seems odd to me
[01:18] <crimsun> well, ultimately it's a "close reading" issue
[01:18] <crimsun> according to the spec and implementation, one clearly needs "LP: #"
[01:19] <theCore> I know that seb128 uses (Ubuntu: #...)
[01:19] <crimsun> I'm inclined to agree with Steven; this syntax clearly separates our usage from Debian BTS's
[01:19] <Fujitsu> theCore: Then seb128 is clearly wrong.
[01:20] <theCore> eh :)
[01:20] <crimsun> even deities make mistakes ;)
[01:23] <LaserJock> crimsun: but I'm not sure that it needs that much clarity
[01:23] <LaserJock> I'd rather have consistency with variation
[01:23] <LaserJock> but maybe that's just me
[01:24] <StevenK> LaserJock: Okay, so we go with Closes LP: #..... The spec talks about updating specifications and such with uploads, you don't close a spec.
[01:25] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Yes you do.
[01:25] <StevenK> You implement them, you don't close them.
[01:25] <Fujitsu> Ah, but you `Fix Release' bugs.
[01:26] <StevenK> Fix Release LP: #..... sounds like it sucks, so nyah
[01:30] <LaserJock> I think Closes is much more descriptive
[01:30] <LaserJock> than ":" is for closes
[01:30] <crimsun> bah, there are no bugs.
[01:30] <LaserJock> but I see your point
[01:32] <LaserJock> I'm thinking in the future Fix Released will go away
[01:32] <StevenK> Oh?
[01:33] <LaserJock> I've seen some discussion about how LP people kinda took it to mean something a bit different than what we usually take it to mean
[01:33] <LaserJock> so perhaps it'll turn into something more along the lines of "Fixed" or "Closed"
[01:34] <StevenK> LaserJock: Can you expand that first bit. You've got me curious now.
[01:34] <LaserJock> heh
[01:34] <LaserJock> well, this is just reading bug reports, so it could be nothing
[01:34] <LaserJock> but they thought that a bug would be marked "Fix Released" when it went into a stable release
[01:35] <LaserJock> i.e. nothing should be marked "Fix Released" in Feisty because it isn't released yet
[01:35] <StevenK> Oooh. Now that is semantics. :-)
[01:37] <LaserJock> seems to me like it'd make sense to have more like a "Fixed in ..." type status
[01:37] <dsas> the distinction between fix committed and fix released is useful for upstream projects though.
[01:37] <LaserJock> exactly
[01:38] <LaserJock> so it's tough to make LP applicable to both upstream projects and distros
[01:41] <Fujitsu> Not really.
[01:42] <Fujitsu> You just have to make LP intelligent, such that it marks distro bugs as `Fix Released' when the dev. version goes stable.
[01:42] <Fujitsu> That's how it should be, I think.
[01:43] <LaserJock> so what are they marked in the mean time?
[01:43] <dsas> seems like extra work for the LP devs, I'm not sure what the problem is.
[01:44] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Fix Committed.
[01:44] <StevenK> But the fix is "Fix Released" for people running Feisty...
[01:45] <Fujitsu> StevenK: It's ambiguous in that respect.
[01:46] <LaserJock> it seems like it needs a "Fixed In: ..." if it's marked "Fixed Released"
[01:47] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Yes, exactly. :-)
[01:48] <crimsun> (RE: 91269)
[01:49] <StevenK> Oof. Bug 100000 looms closer.
[01:49] <StevenK> Ubugtu, bugger off.
[01:51] <crimsun> hey cool, instant DoS
[01:51] <StevenK> crimsun: ?
[01:51] <crimsun> I just tried playing some songs in banshee that had disappeared from under the mount point
[01:52] <crimsun> it proceeded to iterate through the rest of my library and decided to ignore any input
[01:52] <StevenK> Quod does the same thing if it can't stat() the songs.
[01:53] <crimsun> Quod at least prunes at startup
[02:17] <Fujitsu> crimsun: I would have liked to be a little less pleasant... But that'd probably violate the CoC.
[02:18] <crimsun> I'm always polite on those. Those are karma winners!
[02:18] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[02:19] <Fujitsu> Hm, I rejected it exactly 120 seconds after it was reported.
[02:25] <crimsun> rockin'
[02:37] <Fujitsu> A bug reported using Feisty's apport, complaining that Webmin doesn't work.
[02:41] <crimsun> well, it doesn't, that's true. Then again, it's not in the repo, so it obviously can't work. ;)
[02:41] <crimsun> easy karma 4 u
[02:44] <sloof3> How crazy would I be if I suggested bind9 be chroot'ed by default?
[03:00] <superm1> given that we are in upstream version freeze, is it too late to get a package added from revu for feisty?
[03:02] <geser> superm1: is it a new package or an updated one?
[03:02] <superm1> geser it will be a new one
[03:02] <superm1> its not on revu yet, but if there is no way to get it in still, then ill just wait to upload it
[03:03] <geser> superm1: you would need an NewPackagesFreezeUniverse exception to get it in
[03:04] <superm1> geser, okay, well its probably not worth that much effort - its just a usplash theme package. i'll just wait for feisty+1
[03:15] <shawarma> I just realized that I always upload the orig.tar.gz because that's what I used to do to REVU. It's not needed when doing "real" uploads, is it?
[03:19] <Hobbsee> shawarma: it is, unless the tarball is already in the archive
[03:19] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Well, obviously.
[03:20] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Oh, all the bandwidth I could have saved!
[03:20] <shawarma> :-)
[03:27] <crimsun> superm1: usplash theme packages aren't likely to break anything; I say go for it
[03:28] <superm1> crimsun, okay either daviey or i will get it up on revu then
[03:28] <daviey> woohoo
[03:30] <crimsun> man, these specs are just wack
[03:30] <crimsun> Jack Sense Invert SENSE_A, Jack Sense Invert SENSE_B
[03:30] <crimsun> hooray?
[03:35] <daviey> can the REVU uploaders keyring be resyn'd?
[03:37] <shawarma> crimsun: Hey, you can sponsor main uploads, right?
[03:38] <crimsun> shawarma: yes
[03:38] <shawarma> https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vim/+bug/91241
[03:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91241 in vim "debcontrol syntax doesn't recognize XSBC-Original-Maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[03:38] <shawarma> Er... Without the beta part if you're not into that.
[03:39] <crimsun> daviey: sync running.
[03:39] <daviey> ty
[03:40] <crimsun> shawarma: seems sensible enough to me, but have you spoken with Ian (who last touched it) about it?
[03:41] <shawarma> crimsun: Nope. I'm assuming he's asleep.
[03:41] <crimsun> ok. I don't see any regressions, so I'll upload it, but be aware that I'll point him your way if he bawls (however unlikely that is)
[03:41] <shawarma> crimsun: Sure.
[03:42] <shawarma> crimsun: Thank you very much.
[03:43] <shawarma> Doh... G'night!
[03:59] <shawarma> crimsun: Do you do something clever to add the .changes file to the bug report or do you just cut and paste it?
[04:00] <Fujitsu> Interesting stuff in #launchpad... Hmm.....
[04:00] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed
[04:00] <Fujitsu> Especially the bit about granting access to the code to a community member, when LaserJock was denied access even to the wiki.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> really?  ouch
[04:01] <StevenK> Hum?
[04:01] <StevenK> Share!
[04:01] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Share what?
[04:02] <StevenK> I'm not #launchpad, and you've got my curious
[04:02] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:02] <StevenK> Although, it may be a case of "If you have to ask, you won't get it, if we offer, you will."
[04:02] <LaserJock> well
[04:03] <LaserJock> so far I haven't asked about a NDA
[04:03] <LaserJock> but I wonder if that person got access to the LP wiki
[04:03] <LaserJock> I was told it was strictly Canonical-only
[04:03] <LaserJock> but they could be just telling me that ;-)
[04:04] <LaserJock> right now I'm just trying to get at the bugs
[04:04] <LaserJock> since I took myself out of the launchpad-bugs team
[04:05] <StevenK> $CURRENT_EMPLOYER has been very good to me, however.
[04:06] <Fujitsu> StevenK: We already have more of our fair share of devs in AU/NZ.
[04:06] <Fujitsu> *more than
[04:07] <StevenK> So I'd get turned down on that basis?
[04:07] <Fujitsu> Probably :P
[04:08] <shawarma> win 9
[04:08] <shawarma> whoops
[04:08] <LaserJock> it's the AU/NZ monopoly
[04:09] <LaserJock> we'll have to file an anti-trust lawsuit
[04:09] <Fujitsu> :O
[04:09] <LaserJock> send half of you to North/South America
[04:09] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: or just move to australia
[04:10] <StevenK> LaserJock: If you're American, surely you believe Australia and New Zealand are in some state of the US?
[04:11] <crimsun> what, they're not attached to Texas?
[04:11] <TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
[04:11] <crimsun> shawarma: copy and paste galore.
[04:11] <Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso/
[04:11] <Hobbsee> heya TheMuso 
[04:12] <LaserJock> crimsun: I think something like that
[04:13] <shawarma> crimsun: Ok.
[04:13] <LaserJock> StevenK: kinda like puerto rico
[04:16] <jbjuly> /join #telepathy
[04:18] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: so what do you think about getting Malone dumps?
[04:18] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I didn't think they'd allow such a thing until 20 minutes ago.
[04:19] <LaserJock> oh, I figured we could at least try to poke them for it
[04:19] <LaserJock> I was trying to figure out how much resources it'd take on their end
[04:19] <Fujitsu> It'd be good to be able to rsync it regularly, so we could run arbitrary queries on it.
[04:20] <Fujitsu> But it'd be better to be able to do that with a writable copy (ie. the real one).
[04:20] <LaserJock> I'd like to see how they handle private bugs :-)
[04:21] <Fujitsu> As would I. Presumably just exclude them.
[04:21] <LaserJock> I doubt we could get a writable copy
[04:21] <LaserJock> hehe, that thinking hasn't been working for me lately ;-)
[04:22] <Fujitsu> I meant that it'd be nice if LP had a sane, programmer-friendly, flexible interface for searching and stuff. Then a local copy of the DB wouldn't be required at all.
[04:22] <LaserJock> ah
[04:22] <Fujitsu> Hi Toadstool.
[04:22] <LaserJock> well, maybe that's where an API would be useful?
[04:22] <Toadstool> hey Fujitsu 
[04:25] <Hobbsee> hi Toadstool 
[04:25] <Toadstool> hey Hobbsee 
[05:09] <DaSkreech> Hello can anyone help me with chrooted audio?
[05:17] <daviey> crimsun, presumably the sync has finished?
[05:29] <daviey> can the REVU uploaders keyring be resyn'd?
[05:29] <Hobbsee> daviey: yep
[05:29] <daviey> thank you
[05:30] <Hobbsee> resyncing now
[05:31] <DaSkreech> Hi Hobbsee
[05:35] <Hobbsee> hey DaSkreech 
[05:35] <daviey> How long does a sync take?
[05:35] <Hobbsee> daviey: it's not done yet - it's going now
[05:35] <daviey> good stuff - thanks
[05:38] <Hobbsee> daviey: its done
[05:44] <Toadstool> hmm... re bug 84868, nozomi is shipped with the kernel now... I think we should remove the nozomi package (which is currently broken). what d'you think?
[05:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84868 in nozomi "cannot compile module" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84868
[05:45] <Fujitsu> Toadstool: Sounds fine.
[05:45] <DaSkreech> Anyone know how to deal with Chrooted audio?
[05:46] <Fujitsu> DaSkreech: This is the entirely wrong channel.
[05:46] <DaSkreech> I would figure you guys would use chroot more often :)
[05:46] <Fujitsu> I don't believe many packages use audio while building.
[05:47] <DaSkreech> Well someone must have to test a package that deals with audio
[05:47] <StevenK> And? A chroot doesn't affect it all
[05:48] <DaSkreech> StevenK: Hmmm
[05:48] <StevenK> It's still going to just open the char device and throw stuff to it.
[05:48] <StevenK> Just because it exists in a filesystem root that isn't / means nothing to it.
[05:48] <DaSkreech> well I mapped the /dev onto the /dev in the chroot
[05:48] <DaSkreech>  I don't get why audio doesn't wor
[05:48] <DaSkreech> k
[05:49] <TheMuso> DaSkreech: How is your chroot set up?
[05:49] <StevenK> Device or resource busy?
[05:49] <DaSkreech> dchroot according to the ubuntu wiki
[05:49] <TheMuso> DaSkreech: You are referring to DebootstrapChroot right?
[05:50] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% schroot cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
[05:50] <StevenK> I: [i386-acc8be36-69fc-462d-b56f-1dc7ddc4bf83 chroot]  Running command: cat /dev/urandom
[05:50] <StevenK> Works for me
[05:51] <DaSkreech> TheMuso: Yes
[05:51] <TheMuso> DaSkreech: What error do you get?
[05:52] <DaSkreech> None
[05:52] <DaSkreech> It's disturbing
[05:52] <StevenK> DaSkreech: Chroot in and run "cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp"
[05:53] <DaSkreech> No sound
[05:53] <StevenK> No error either?
[05:53] <DaSkreech> Nope
[05:53] <StevenK> Try it outside of the chroot, if that doesn't work, then fix your sound.
[05:54] <DaSkreech> It crackles for a bit then nothing
[05:54] <DaSkreech> Hmm Guess it might have broken
[05:54] <DaSkreech>  I'll look into that
[05:54] <DaSkreech> Thanks
[06:15] <crimsun> daviey: yes.
[06:16] <crimsun> DaSkreech: not the channel to ask in; ping me in #kubuntu
[06:50] <superm1> hm so whats the proper way to install a package like dbus in a chroot, since it cant really finish its configure step: "invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "start" failed."
[07:56] <daviey> Hi, trying to do my first REVU.  dput returns "Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de".  But when i try to login, it would appear that my account does not exsist
[07:57] <crimsun> have you attempted to recover your revu password?
[08:01] <daviey> crimsun, yes
[08:01] <daviey> http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=dave@ubuntuwire.com
[08:03] <crimsun> daviey: then you'll need an admin to forcibly remove the upload if that is, in fact, what you want
[08:03] <crimsun> I presume you are using dput -f ?
[08:04] <daviey> no
[08:04] <daviey> just tried that "This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server."
[08:06] <LaserJock> daviey: what package?
[08:06] <daviey> "usplash-theme-mythbuntu_0.1-1_source.changes"
[08:08] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't really see why it got rejected
[08:09] <daviey> I didn't recieve a mail saying it was rej'
[08:09] <LaserJock> you won't
[08:09] <LaserJock> I cleared it out, try it again
[08:10] <daviey> okay dput -f ..... did it.  Thanks
[08:11] <LaserJock> yep that looks like it'll work
[08:13] <daviey> okay, i suppose need to wait for the batch job?
[08:14] <LaserJock> yeah, its a 5 min. job
[08:22] <crimsun> wtf @ bug 91321
[08:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91321 in Ubuntu "its kinda slow" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91321
[08:22] <crimsun> real useful there, buddy.
[08:25] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Yeah, I saw that and closed the tab.
[08:26] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Do we get a presence notification in here?
[08:26] <Fujitsu> We need a bug hall of fame.
[08:28] <crimsun> hey, that's a good idea
[08:28] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, presence notifcation ?>
[08:28] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You greeted #ubuntu-devel!
[08:28] <crimsun> we're feeling neglected, brandon.
[08:28] <Fujitsu> And that neglect has devastating effects.
[08:28] <imbrandon> ahh ;)
[08:28] <imbrandon> moins all
[08:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:28] <Fujitsu> Absolutely terrible.
[08:28] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon
[08:29] <imbrandon> honestly i thought i was in here, this is the only chan i normal say "hi in"
[08:29] <imbrandon> err s/"hi in"/"hi" in/
[08:29] <imbrandon> lol
[08:29] <imbrandon> sometimes #kubuntu-devel if anyone is awake
[08:30] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
[08:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91264 in hal "hal-device-manager crashes with an import error" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91264
[08:30] <imbrandon> heya LaserJock 
[08:30] <superm1> hey imbrandon 
[08:30] <imbrandon> ello superm1 
[08:30] <Fujitsu> Hi superm1.
[08:30] <superm1> keescook and I straightened out lirc earlier
[08:30] <superm1> :)
[08:30] <imbrandon> fskin cool
[08:30] <imbrandon> i love you all
[08:32] <imbrandon> superm1, is it uploaded?
[08:32] <superm1> oh and hello Fujitsu, didn't mean to be neglectful
[08:32] <superm1> its a uvfe
[08:32] <superm1> so it will have to be acked by a few 
[08:33] <superm1> kees has the source files in his canoncial web space
[08:33] <imbrandon> cool ok
[08:33] <imbrandon> whats the bug # ?
[08:34] <superm1> bug 78140
[08:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78140 in lirc "[UVFe]  lirc-modules-source doesn't compile with kernel 2.6.20" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78140
[08:34] <imbrandon> sweet, did you all grab a cvs snap or something ? the 8.1 tarbals wasent compiling either for .20
[08:35] <imbrandon> leaste not for me
[08:35] <superm1> well 0.8.1 had 2.6.19 support but no 2.6.20
[08:35] <imbrandon> right
[08:35] <crimsun> looks good
[08:35] <superm1> so i originally did a cvs snap, but ran into lots of automake troubles
[08:35] <superm1> but i fixed up the patches 
[08:35] <superm1> and then sent those to kees
[08:35] <superm1> and kees straightened the automake troubles out
[08:37] <crimsun> yeah, automake 1.10 is a bundle o' joy
[08:37] <superm1> i was ready to pull my hair out over it about 12 hours ago :)
[08:38] <imbrandon> lol
[08:38] <imbrandon> all to get my mceusb2 working in feisty ;)
[08:38] <superm1> haha
[08:38] <daviey> are you sure you were running automake and not nonautomake?
[08:38] <superm1> nonautomake?
[08:38] <daviey> :P
[08:39] <imbrandon> mmmm carrot cake, my fav
[08:39] <imbrandon> i'll have to try kees packages when i get off work, i would ack it but i'm not on the UVF team ;)
[08:40] <superm1> i havent tried them yet myself, i'm just taking his word that it built cleanly at this point.  my feisty machine doesn't have any lirc toys to play with
[08:40] <crimsun> neither am I (un)fortunately
[08:40] <imbrandon> heheh crimsun 
[08:41] <superm1> lol crimsun 
[08:41] <imbrandon> ok smoke break before DST here ( 20 minutes ) just incase some of these windows boxen here blowup
[08:41] <zakame> hi all
[08:41] <crimsun> 'lo
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Hi zakame.
[08:42] <superm1> man i forgot all that DST business, now i really better get to bed knowing i'm getting 1 hour less sleep :(
[08:42] <zakame> hello Fujitsu
[08:42] <superm1> night guys
[08:42] <imbrandon> everyone else gets less sleep , i get less work, work 11 hours get paid for 12 ;)
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Night superm1.
[08:42] <imbrandon> ngith superm1 
[08:42] <imbrandon> night*
[08:51] <imbrandon> grrr rsyncd keeps dying
[08:58] <tsmithe> grrrr
[08:58] <tsmithe> !worksforme
[08:58] <ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should. Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.
[08:58] <tsmithe> :P
[09:01] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder why php-doc is in multiverse
[09:05] <imbrandon> fdl?
[09:06] <tsmithe> pah - i was gonna find out!
[09:06] <LaserJock> oh, that'd make sense in a weird way
[09:06] <tsmithe>         Distribution of the work or derivative of the work in any standard 
[09:06] <tsmithe>         (paper) book form is prohibited unless prior permission is obtained 
[09:06] <tsmithe>         from the copyright holder.
[09:06] <tsmithe> ^^ that's what the copyright doc says
[09:06] <tsmithe> wait
[09:06] <tsmithe> it says paper :S
[09:09] <imbrandon> LaserJock, you see my little expirment last night with my weberver ?
[09:09] <imbrandon> asp .net 2.0 + mucho other stuff on linux ( ubuntu ) 
[09:09] <imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/show-off/
[09:09] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:10] <crimsun> tsmithe: did you reply to me regarding free time for an ubuntu-audio meeting?
[09:10] <tsmithe> crimsun, no - i didn't get that message
[09:10] <tsmithe> what was the question?
[09:11] <crimsun> tsmithe: ok, leave me a message telling me what dates and times work best for you to have an u-audio meeting
[09:11] <crimsun> shooting for this week
[09:11] <tsmithe> ah ok
[09:13] <tsmithe> imbrandon, the mono one is a tad slow to load - is that just because of the jit?
[09:13] <LaserJock> imbrandon: pretty impressive :-)
[09:13] <imbrandon> dosent seem slow here, hell its only 500kb
[09:14] <imbrandon> python seems to be the slowest tbh
[09:17] <imbrandon> guess i should benchmark them somehow
[09:18] <imbrandon> i bet the c++ will be the fastest ;)
[09:18] <tsmithe> no kidding
[09:20] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Why is the ASP.NET about 10 times larger than the PHP and Python?
[09:20] <imbrandon> because its about 10x more code ;)
[09:22] <LaserJock> all I need is a mod_Fortran and I'd be set
[09:22] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:22] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9783/
[09:23] <imbrandon> compared to .....
[09:23] <imbrandon> brandon@voyager:/storage/websites/imbrandon.com/show-off$ cat hello.py
[09:23] <imbrandon> def index(req): return "Hello from Python ( via mod_python )";
[09:23] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:25] <crimsun> TheMuso: just checking if this Thursday @ 2100 UTC is feasible for you for an ubuntu-audio meeting
[09:25] <Fujitsu> Haha. ASP is so much smaller and neater.
[09:25] <tsmithe> imbrandon, asp scares me
[09:25] <Fujitsu> tsmithe: It's like JavaScript, but C# and on the server... Scary.
[09:25] <tsmithe> yes
[09:26] <Fujitsu> I especially don't like the fact that it seems to be doing the HTML generation stuff.
[09:26] <tsmithe> that's exactly my fear
[09:26] <Fujitsu> Without you saying exactly what it does.
[09:26] <tsmithe> :S
[09:26] <Fujitsu> I really don't like that.
[10:00] <Q-FUNK> hm.  the OOo situation really is going to a sick extreme.  why would it suddenyl want to remove impress, at this morning's upgrade?
[10:01] <tsmithe> modularity, people! :P however, i'm sure that's a huge task, and i'm not volunteering, sorry
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: It's finally got the right idea!
[10:03] <Fujitsu> I've been waiting for it start getting rid of itself.
[10:03] <Q-FUNK> ?!
[10:04] <Fujitsu> It deserves to be got rid of.
[10:04] <Q-FUNK> no
[10:04] <Q-FUNK> it's the only part of OOo that I find useful
[10:04] <Q-FUNK> otherwise, AbiWord is almost there and integrates a lot better with GNOME.
[10:05] <Fujitsu> I agree with Impress being the only useful part.
[10:05] <Fujitsu> I meant that OOo should in general be obliterated.
[10:06] <Fujitsu> I like bug #90636.
[10:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90636 in openoffice.org "Openoffice fonts aren't blurry enough (dup-of: 54776)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90636
[10:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54776 in openoffice.org "font hinting does not work with libfreetype6 v. 2.2.1" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54776
[10:06] <Fujitsu> jdong has the right idea, in that bug :P
[10:07] <Q-FUNK> heh
[10:07] <Q-FUNK> too bad that nobody got around creating a presentation tool based on ODF.
[10:07] <Q-FUNK> then I could finaly ditch OOo
[10:08] <crimsun> Does it only affect -impress? I would think that all of OO.o is affected by the demotion of openoffice.org to Recommends in ubuntu-meta.
[10:09] <Q-FUNK> OOo's compatibility with commercial file formats is fantastic, but it has just baout the worst UI I've ever seen.
[10:10] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: oh?  what replaces it then?  is that for the ubuntu-desktop task?
[10:11] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: I don't think anything's off to replace it ATM, more a change for flexibility. Yeah, it's the demotion from desktop-$arch to desktop-recommends-$arch.
[10:12] <Q-FUNK> hm.  so are a lot of useful apps and fonts to display foreign languages.  I'm not sure that's such a good idea
[10:13] <imbrandon> no more klingon fonts by default ?
[10:13] <imbrandon> awe
[10:14] <Q-FUNK> hm, more like no gentium and most asian fonts also not there by default
[10:15] <tsmithe> well, it's only so that people can remove parts without killing ubuntu-desktop
[10:15] <tsmithe> they are all installed by default, still, right?
[10:15] <Q-FUNK> good question
[10:16] <tsmithe> i think they are
[10:16] <tsmithe> s/think/know/
[10:21] <Fujitsu> Recommends is installed by default.
[10:21] <tsmithe> :)
[10:21] <Fujitsu> The demotion just means that they can be removed without getting rid of ubuntu-desktop.
[10:29] <crimsun> apparently asking for separate attachments is ignored, too
[10:30] <tsmithe> crimsun, i opened that too
[10:30] <tsmithe> wait
[10:30] <tsmithe> no
[10:30] <crimsun> it's ok, I've already rejected it
[10:30] <imbrandon> its fine, its waiting on the as400 to reboot 
[10:30] <imbrandon> err
[10:30] <crimsun> it's a pretty simple "bug" due to the index=-2
[10:30] <tsmithe> crimsun, haha ok
[10:30] <tsmithe> you got there first
[10:31] <tsmithe> i was just looking at it
[10:31] <crimsun> which, as I'll explain again on Thursday, is a no-win situation
[10:31] <tsmithe> i'll wait for your explanation :)
[10:31] <tsmithe> or you could explain now...
[10:31] <crimsun> everytime we change something to convenience some users, another class of users crops up to howl
[10:31] <crimsun> it's grrreat!
[10:32] <tsmithe> i know
[10:32] <tsmithe> we ditch sound altogether
[10:32] <crimsun> yeah, kill the bugger!
[10:35] <tsmithe> i added "Please attach the output of each in a *separate* text file to the report. Modularity pleases everyone :)" to the paragraph introducing the commands on DebuggingSoundProblems
[10:35] <tsmithe> that'll probably be ignored too
[10:36] <crimsun> hehe, thanks
[10:37] <tsmithe> hmm
[10:37] <tsmithe> np :)
[10:38] <TheMuso> tsmithe: The day that sound can be ditched is the day that I can see with 100% vision. :)
[10:38] <tsmithe> :S
[10:44] <imbrandon> i dont think i could sit at a computer more than 30 minutes without my music , cigarettes , and mt dew
[10:45] <imbrandon> i can go without internet , but sound has to work 
[10:45] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:45] <tsmithe> well, always buy emu10k1 cards is my advice
[10:46] <imbrandon> 99% of the time i just use whats onboard, i really havent had a sound problem in linux since 1998
[10:46] <tsmithe> good good
[10:46] <crimsun> creative burned a lot of us really badly with emu10k
[10:46] <tsmithe> burned?
[10:46] <tsmithe> sorry :x
[10:47] <crimsun> it's not a bad family of chips per se, but it's definitely not recommended for serious audio listening/work
[10:47] <imbrandon> mstsc /console kdcwebp01
[10:47] <imbrandon> dammit
[10:47] <TheMuso> Damn right *COUGH* resampling to 48K */COUGH*
[10:47] <crimsun> automagical resampling to 48kHz is so not the win.
[10:47] <tsmithe> crimsun, indeed not... i wasn't recommending it for that :)
[10:48] <crimsun> tsmithe: right, it works for many, many uses cases, and obviates dmix/dsnoop, which is 'good'
[10:48] <TheMuso> The only useful thing with the emu10K chip is soundfont playback in hardware.
[10:49] <crimsun> yeah, the old AWEs were pretty nice
[10:49] <TheMuso> crimsun: Do creative still produce emu1KX chips?
[10:49] <TheMuso> 10K even
[10:50] <crimsun> TheMuso: not that I know of. Most now are the severely crippled variants.
[10:50] <TheMuso> Oh lovely.
[10:50] <crimsun> which are lovingly marketed as Audigy LS/SE
[10:50] <crimsun> (!)
[10:50] <TheMuso> Right.
[10:51] <imbrandon> i thought creative was the psudeo standard ? ( forgive my ignorance )
[10:51] <crimsun> creative did produce solid hw, yes
[10:52] <TheMuso> Their downfall was probably when they bought out EMU
[10:52] <crimsun> granted since X-Fi drivers are ... (insert closed-source expletive)
[10:52] <tsmithe> HNNNGHH
[10:52] <crimsun> but really, most serious Linux audio guys go with RME/ICE17xx
[10:53] <tsmithe> i didn't know about the 48kHz lock until ten minutes ago... it's terribly surprising, and i can see how it's an awful knock for real sound work
[10:53] <TheMuso> if you can get your hands on the hardware
[10:53] <crimsun> tsmithe: it's almost as cool as High Definition Audio!
[10:53] <tsmithe> crimsun, don't tell me about that
[10:54] <tsmithe> sarcasm does not make it alright :P
[10:54] <TheMuso> Now that firewire is all the rage
[10:54] <tsmithe> now he'll say he wasn't being sarcastic...
[10:54] <crimsun> freebob will be nice, sigh
[10:55] <TheMuso> crimsun: But isn't freebob all in userspace
[10:55] <crimsun> yeah
[10:55] <TheMuso> I thought as much
[10:55] <tsmithe> why are userspace drivers all the rage these days?
[10:57] <crimsun> well, there are some definite advantages to that approach
[10:58] <crimsun> normally easier to develop, troubleshoot/maintain
[10:58] <tsmithe> yes
[10:58] <tsmithe> "some"
[10:59] <tsmithe> crimsun, am i going to become sarcastic?
[10:59] <crimsun> I suppose you really have to consider the core architecture. If we were working with, say, QNX's approach, everything would essentially be userspace
[10:59] <crimsun> s/become/find a hobby so I\'m not as/
[10:59] <crimsun> ;)
[11:00] <TheMuso> heh
[11:00] <tsmithe> :S
[11:00] <tsmithe> i have a hobby
[11:00] <tsmithe> (whoever is thinking that this is my hobby is a dork :P)
[11:00] <tsmithe> music is my hobby!
[11:01] <TheMuso> tsmithe: What instrument(s)?
[11:02] <tsmithe> TheMuso, trumpet is my better, but piano as well
[11:03] <crimsun> you should consider getting involved with the sound/music for *buntu
[11:04] <TheMuso> tsmithe: Sweet.
[11:04] <tsmithe> crimsun, i should?
[11:04] <crimsun> tsmithe: if it tickles your fancy
[11:04] <tsmithe> how could i help?
[11:04] <tsmithe> TheMuso, when it works
[11:04] <crimsun> you would want to ask Luke or Pete (cbx33)
[11:04] <crimsun> I'm not very involved in that side
[11:05] <TheMuso> I've got a few ideas.
[11:06] <crimsun> 'night folks, err 'morning.
[11:06] <tsmithe> hehe
[11:06] <tsmithe> crimsun, i thought you didn't sleep!
[11:06] <tsmithe> and we're going for a meeting at 2100 UTC on Thursday?
[11:06] <crimsun> I don't, but my hands need to step away from the keyboard
[11:06] <crimsun> yep, I'll whip up that announcement today
[11:07] <tsmithe> cool
[11:07] <tsmithe> crimsun, you also told me that you didn't use a pillow, you slept with the laptop
[11:07] <tsmithe> ;)
[11:07] <crimsun> yes, she keeps me nice and warm
[11:07] <tsmithe> haha
[11:08] <tsmithe> TheMuso, what instrument(s) do you play?
[11:08] <TheMuso> tsmithe: I am a pianist, and vocalist. I also played drums for about three years, but that was 6 years ago.
[11:09] <tsmithe> cool
[11:09] <TheMuso> Piano is certainly my primary instrument however, as I have been playing that by far and away the longest.
[11:10] <tsmithe> well, i'm sure you're far better than me
[11:10] <TheMuso> Depends on your definition of better.
[11:11] <tsmithe> technically skilled, and more experienced
[11:12] <man-di> I'm new to Ubuntu. Is it possible to list all bugs of packages of a given Maintainer in launchpad?
[11:13] <man-di> I want to have a look at all packages where the (original) maintainer is Debian Java Maintainers
[11:15] <siretart> man-di: do you happen to know the launchpad id of the debian java maintainers?
[11:15] <man-di> siretart: is there one?
[11:16] <man-di> I know mine...but that doesn't really help I think
[11:16] <siretart> man-di: yes, it must have been autocreated while importing debian packages
[11:16] <siretart> man-di: you might want to consider contacting and/or joining https://launchpad.net/~motujava
[11:16] <man-di> siretart: how can I find out?
[11:16] <lionel> man-di: this is something like https://bugs.launchpad.net/~pkg-java-maintainers/+packagebugs
[11:17] <man-di> siretart: thats interesting, I have never seen any Java work from these people
[11:17] <siretart> man-di: ah, so we seem to have 2 groups, pkg-java-maintainers and motujava
[11:17] <man-di> lionel: thanks, this list is somehow empty, interesting
[11:17] <siretart> man-di: in order to make the +packagebugs page working, you need to make the java packages having the group as 'bug contact'
[11:18] <man-di> siretart: I really wonder how doko handles this
[11:18] <Fujitsu> +packages will list the packages they're maintaining.
[11:18] <man-di> Fujitsu: Page not found
[11:18] <imbrandon> ( and have alist of bugs for each )
[11:18] <siretart> man-di: I wouldn't be surprised if he'd answer he doesn't
[11:18] <man-di> siretart: I'm neither
[11:19] <Fujitsu> LP doesn't provide necessary functionality like that at the moment, unfortunately.
[11:19] <siretart> man-di: I'd perhaps ask motujava if they object to make the group bug contact for all java related packages, and do that
[11:19] <siretart> man-di: this way it's easier to track bugs in those packages
[11:20] <man-di> siretart: the interesting thing is that the owner of motujava is my NM in Debian and he does no Java at all
[11:21] <imbrandon> maybe he only does java in ubuntu heh
[11:21] <siretart> man-di: that's indeed interesting. I haven't seen zakame lately at all, but he is here in this channel
[11:21] <imbrandon> i seen zakame a few hours ago
[11:21] <man-di> imbrandon: he told me that is not interested in java, perhaps this changed
[11:22] <siretart> zakame: ping. Are you still working on motujava?
[11:22] <man-di> lauchpad references https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUJava but that page doesnt exist
[11:23] <man-di> somehow I seem to find all the bad stuff now
[11:23] <imbrandon> he was here 2.75 hours ago according to my logs
[11:23] <Fujitsu> man-di: MOTU/Teams/Java
[11:24] <man-di> Fujitsu: thx, this explains
[11:24] <man-di> "INITIAL STAGE. Please help me!" .... "last edited 2006-02-12 16"
[11:24] <man-di> this is just outdated and dead
[11:24] <Fujitsu> Very recent.
[11:25] <man-di> I think I have to join this together with the debin java team and to some real work for feisty+1
[11:25] <siretart> man-di: if the team is indeed dead, feel free to revive it :)
[11:25] <man-di> join forces on this would be good
[11:25] <Q-FUNK> http://seenonslash.com/node/1082
[11:25] <Fujitsu> man-di: Joining forces on anything at all is good :)
[11:26] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: Oooold news.
[11:26] <man-di> Fujitsu: both distros can only gain from it, IMO
[11:26] <Fujitsu> man-di: Of course, and that's how it should be.
[11:26] <man-di> sorry for me being so Debian centered
[11:27] <man-di> I know this is OT here
[11:27] <Fujitsu> How is it OT?
[11:27] <Fujitsu> It's MOTU-related, so it's on topic.
[11:27] <imbrandon> its no problem, we work/talk about debian alot
[11:27] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Not as much as we should or need to, IMO.
[11:27] <imbrandon> esp when it effects us
[11:27] <man-di> Fujitsu, imbrandon: thx
[11:27] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, should or need to ?
[11:28] <man-di> Is there already a fixed date when uploading to feisty+1 can be startet? I would like to merge some packages first
[11:28] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, thats where me and you will 1000% disagree, i think we should only because things effect mostly all linux, so debian , gentoo, suse, etc, not because debian is debian
[11:29] <imbrandon> so java bug fixing will benifit suse too just as much and is just as much ontopic ;)
[11:29] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: We need to communicate more with Debian, as there's not a whole lot of that going on at the moment.
[11:29] <man-di> Fujitsu: and that is bad, I really agree
[11:29] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, see i dont agree, not for the reasons you do atleaste
[11:29] <man-di> Fujitsu: debian un ubuntu are like brothers
[11:30] <imbrandon> i think there should definately be communication but not because they are "upstream"
[11:30] <Fujitsu> man-di: We're more like Debian's child.
[11:30] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, see thats 100% wrong
[11:30] <imbrandon> i knew where you were getting at with that
[11:30] <siretart> man-di: if the timeline remains like it was the last releases, I expect feisty+1 to open for buisness about one or two weeks after feisty release
[11:30] <man-di> Fujitsu: do you think so? I would more say _Ubunutu is the younger brother
[11:30] <man-di> siretart: thx
[11:31] <man-di> Ubuntu
[11:31] <man-di> damn fingers
[11:31] <imbrandon> man-di, exactly
[11:38] <imbrandon> hum this is gonna take forever at 40MB/s
[11:38] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: What is?
[11:38] <Fujitsu> 40MB/s!? Where are you getting bandwidth like that?
[11:38] <Fujitsu> Oh, you're in the US. Of course.
[11:38] <imbrandon> moving the mirror.imbrandon.com repo ro a bigger drive
[11:38] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[11:38] <Fujitsu> So local...
[11:39] <imbrandon> no
[11:39] <imbrandon> still remote, i havent put the new server in the rack, just copying all the data and getting it ready
[11:40] <imbrandon> local i would be getting ~90MB/s
[11:40] <imbrandon> i /was/ getting ~89 remote but it slowed back
[11:42] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/bandwidth/new_mirror.png
[11:42] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:42] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Noooooo! Resist the temptation!
[11:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hmmm?
[11:43] <Fujitsu> You're blogging.
[11:43] <Fujitsu> Twice in 11 minutes.
[11:43] <Hobbsee> ahh
[11:43] <Hobbsee> yes
[11:43] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:43] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: ... negative bandwidth?
[11:44] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i'm downloading
[11:44] <imbrandon> e.g. syncing the mirror
[11:45] <Hobbsee> coNP: hrm?
[11:46] <coNP> Hobbsee: I forgot to click on my XChat icon but then I read some blog entries and did that...
[11:46] <Hobbsee> ahh
[11:47] <tsmithe> Hobbsee, you have snap? whys?
[11:47] <imbrandon> ahh Hobbsee finaly has a bog ;)
[11:47] <imbrandon> well is using one i should say
[11:47] <Hobbsee> :P
[11:47] <tsmithe> also, Hobbsee, your links thing seems to think it is www.planet.ubuntu.com :S
[11:47] <imbrandon> i have some wordpress hacks if you want, its really hackable ;)
[11:48] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: ahh
[11:48] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: what are they?
[11:48] <imbrandon> some hacks to let you run php code in posts , umm some picture album hacks
[11:48] <imbrandon> ummm a few others
[11:48] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: fixed.  pebkac & brain error
[11:49] <imbrandon> soem spam prevention stuff
[11:49] <Hobbsee> nice
[11:49] <tsmithe> :)
[11:50] <man-di> https://launchpad.net/~motujava should reference https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Java instead of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUJava
[11:50] <man-di> somebody should fix it
[11:50] <imbrandon> the team owner has to
[11:51] <imbrandon> ( or another administrator of the team )
[11:51] <Fujitsu> ie. zakame.
[11:51] <Fujitsu> zakame: ^^
[11:52] <man-di> aah, I thought every motu or so can do this
[11:52] <imbrandon> you could also redirect /MOTUJava to the new page 
[11:52] <imbrandon> anyone can do that
[11:52] <imbrandon> like /BrandonHoltsclaw is redirected to /imbrandon 
[11:53] <imbrandon> etc
[11:54] <tsmithe> imbrandon, how is polish translation coming along?
[11:54] <imbrandon> um , why would i know?
[11:54] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: dont you know everything?
[11:54] <tsmithe> "I hope to help bring Kubuntu upto the level of Polish ... of its sibling Ubuntu."
[11:54] <imbrandon> heheh Hobbsee 
[11:54] <man-di> imbrandon: I wonder how that is done... /me looking
[11:54] <tsmithe> Hobbsee, don't be silly. what gave you that idea!
[11:54] <Hobbsee> :P
[11:55] <imbrandon> tsmithe, bah 
[11:55] <tsmithe> bah? Polish is a language, just like english. i'm glad that you agree :P
[11:56] <imbrandon> see #1 http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=polish
[11:57] <tsmithe> that's discrimination. why should #1 not include the poles?
[11:57] <man-di> imbrandon: it looks like a redirect existed but the page got deleted in november last year
[11:57] <tsmithe> i can't believe you imbrandon. you just ruined my day
[11:57] <imbrandon> man-di, i'd say go ahead and recreate it
[11:58] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: #1 SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE GREEN ALIENS!  IT'S COMPLETE AND UTTER DISCRIMINATION!!!!  IT'S GOING TO BE THE DEATH OF UBUNTU!!!!ONE!!!ELEVENTYONE!!!!
[11:58] <man-di> Laser_away deleted it
[11:58] <Hobbsee> and everything else :P
[11:58] <man-di> imbrandon: I should perhaps contact him first
[11:59] <Hobbsee> ahem.  :P
[11:59] <tsmithe> Hobbsee, that's just not funny

[11:59] <imbrandon> man-di, upto you, i doubt it is going to be that big of a deal though
[12:00] <Seveas> Hobbsee, WHAt ABOUT THE BLUE ALIENS?1?1?!?!
[12:00] <Hobbsee> Seveas: they dont count!
[12:00] <tsmithe> noooo!
[12:00] <man-di> imbrandon: i will take your word ;-)
[12:05] <tsmithe> \o/ ubuntu-2.6 has finished pulling
[12:23] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, there we go ruby/eruby added now too ( .rbx and .rhtml ) http://www.imbrandon.com/show-off/
[12:24] <imbrandon> i still like the fact i can run aspx .net stuff if i want to , not just linux scripting lang ones ;)
[12:24] <imbrandon> man that server signature is getting long
[12:24] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Nice. How well does mod_mono work?
[12:25] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, very well actualy, i havent found any issues with it 
[12:25] <imbrandon> other than the install is broke in edgy ;) ( but i fixed it localy and going to do a sru soonish )
[12:27] <imbrandon> hum i guess i'm missing a perl file there too
[12:27] <imbrandon> heh
[12:28] <Fujitsu> ColdFusion! We all love it.
[12:28] <imbrandon> heh actualy i started out on coldfusion
[12:28] <imbrandon> and i do have a legit copy of coldfusion server arround here somewhere
[12:28] <imbrandon> not sure i wanna install it thought
[12:29] <imbrandon> i just want them to update apache2 to apache2.2 in ubuntu
[12:30] <imbrandon> then i can take down my damn anon ftp
[12:42] <ajmitch> imbrandon: and how did you fix mod_mono locally?
[12:42] <imbrandon> just a rebuild
[12:43] <imbrandon> apt-get source --build libapache2-mod-mono
[12:43] <ajmitch> even though it build-deps on apache-dev & apache2-dev, which used a different libdb* ?
[12:43] <imbrandon> ftw ;)
[12:43] <ajmitch> causing much pain, etc
[12:43] <imbrandon> dunno it worked no problems ( so far )
[12:44] <imbrandon> see the server sig?
[12:44] <ajmitch> the problem was known before release, mod_mono wasn't fixable due to the different build deps
[12:44] <imbrandon> hum a rebuild seems to have fixed it ( now atleaste )
[12:44] <imbrandon> dunno why or how
[12:45] <imbrandon> i dident look, just did
[12:45] <imbrandon> Apache/2.0.55 (Ubuntu) mod_mono/1.1.17 mod_python/3.2.8 Python/2.4.4c1 PHP/5.1.6 mod_ruby/1.2.6 Ruby/1.8.4(2005-12-24) mod_ssl/2.0.55 OpenSSL/0.9.8b mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8 Server at www.imbrandon.com Port 80
[12:47] <imbrandon> it should builddep on both shouldent it, the source builds both libapache-* and libapache2-*
[12:47] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
[12:47] <ajmitch> yes, it should 
[12:47] <imbrandon> umm then i'm not seeing a problem
[12:47] <ajmitch> and as I said, apache 1.3.x & 2.x depended on different versions of libdb
[12:49] <imbrandon> actualy it built with apache2-threaded-dev and apache-dev
[12:49] <imbrandon> but yea i have both installed
[12:49] <imbrandon> hum
[12:50] <ajmitch> well, it looks like someone did manage to change either apache or apache2 so they both used libdb4.3
[12:50] <ajmitch> whether that was done just before or just after release, I don't know
[12:50] <imbrandon> me either , probably could findout from a little changelog diggin
[12:50] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:50] <ajmitch> ah, october 25th
[12:50] <imbrandon> smoke time , brb
[12:51] <imbrandon> yea so looks like mod_mono "just needs a rebuild" and it will be fine
[12:51] <ajmitch> infinity changed it on release day, or the day before
[12:51] <ajmitch> night
[12:51] <imbrandon> gnight ajmitch 
[12:51] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Night.
[12:51] <imbrandon> sleep well
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Night, imbrandon.
[12:52] <imbrandon> later Fujitsu 
[12:53] <geser> apache switched back to libdb4.3 short before the release
[12:59] <imbrandon> ii  apache-dev                     1.3.34-4ubuntu1             development kit for the Apache webserver
[12:59] <imbrandon> ii  apache2                        2.0.55-4ubuntu4             next generation, scalable, extendable web se
[12:59] <imbrandon> shit sorry
[12:59] <imbrandon> ii  apache2-common                 2.0.55-4ubuntu4             next generation, scalable, extendable web se
[12:59] <imbrandon> ii  apache2-mpm-prefork            2.0.55-4ubuntu4             traditional model for Apache2
[12:59] <tsmithe> imbrandon, !!!
[12:59] <imbrandon> dont touch my keyboard
[12:59] <tsmithe> i'll touch what i want
[02:14] <Lure> can anybody explain this build failure: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6715972/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-powerpc.libkexiv2_0.1.1-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[02:14] <Lure> Maintainer is set to @kubuntu.org - I suspect this should work
[02:18] <ivoks> pkgmaintainermangler: Error: /build/buildd/libkexiv2-0.1.1/debian/libkexiv2-0-dbgsym/DEBIAN/control already contains an Original-Maintainer field; aborting
[02:18] <ivoks> i have to look at the source...
[02:21] <geser> Lure: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/pkgbinarymangler/+changelog
[02:22] <Lure> geser: thanks, we probably just need to wait a bit to get this on buildd's
[02:22] <ivoks> heh
[02:23] <geser> Lure: if I read the timestamp correctly it was fixed after the build appempt
[02:23] <Lure> geser: yep, it looks like pitti fixed it when he saw the failure - it may just need rebuild...
[02:24] <geser> Lure: you need an archive admin to give-back libkexiv2 to the buildds
[02:24] <Lure> geser: yep, will wait until tommorow
[02:28] <Nafallo> imbrandon: ping
[02:49] <imbrandon> Nafallo, pong
[02:49] <Nafallo> imbrandon: hi! wanna add deb-src on aurora for the rest of the dists aswell? :-)
[02:50] <imbrandon> dget http://url/to/your.dsc
[02:50] <imbrandon> not like that ^^ ?
[02:51] <imbrandon> but i supose i can ;)
[02:51] <shawarma> stgraber: around?
[03:10] <stgraber> shawarma: yes
[03:13] <shawarma> stgraber: Alright. I've been looking into the openvpn pull thing.
[03:13] <stgraber> didn't you find something ?
[03:13] <shawarma> stgraber: It's a bit trickier than I expected.
[03:14] <stgraber> it's pretty weird as the routes are correctly set during half a second or something like that
[03:14] <shawarma> Actually not. :-)
[03:14] <shawarma> It's due to the way routing and such works with network-manager.
[03:15] <shawarma> When one of the network-manager helper things is configured, it sends a DBus message to network-manager with the routing info, which network-manager then sets.
[03:15] <shawarma> So the plugins are not supposed to handle their own routing directly, but rather tell nm how they'd like it to be.
[03:15] <stgraber> and I guess this openvpn helper doesn't send all the routes (the classical one + the others received by pull) ?
[03:16] <shawarma> Right now, nm just obeys and sets it, but in the future it might be more clever about it.
[03:16] <shawarma> stgraber: Precisely.
[03:16] <shawarma> stgraber: So.. On top of what I already did, I need to figure out how to extract those extra routes from the openvpn process (the ones it got from the server) and send those to nm.
[03:17] <shawarma> stgraber: And upstream seems to be dormant, so I'm on my own. :-)
[03:17] <stgraber> (you can do that by an ugly stuff (parsing the messages from OpenVPN))
[03:17] <shawarma> ..which is fine, though. I was considering taking it over anyway.
[03:17] <stgraber> the routes are shown while connecting (the classical one + the others from pull)
[03:17] <shawarma> stgraber: Are they? Now that might be helpful!
[03:19] <stgraber> Sun Mar 11 15:18:51 2007 PUSH: Received control message: 'PUSH_REPLY,route 172.16.0.0 255.255.248.0,route-gateway 172.16.8.1,ping 10,ping-restart 120,ifconfig 172.16.8.2 255.255.248.0'
[03:20] <stgraber> if that can help you and as it's simply a VPN access to my LAN, I could generate a certificate for you so that you can try directly
[03:25] <shawarma> stgraber: I have a openvpn server myself that I can just add extra routes to. Thanks anyway.
[03:53] <stgraber> shawarma: Did you work on bug 88072 ? I'm going to fix it myself and wouldn't like that we do the job twice :)
[03:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88072 in openoffice.org "openoffice.org font aakar" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88072
[03:53] <stgraber> oops, bad bug number
[03:53] <stgraber> bug 88072 I mean
[03:53] <stgraber> bug 88073 I mean
[03:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88073 in network-manager-vpnc "[Feisty]  NetworkManager Cisco VPN NAT options missing" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88073
[03:54] <shawarma> stgraber: Well, I was going to do it, but if you want to, that would be great.
[03:54] <stgraber> I let you play with the openvpn one :)
[03:55] <shawarma> stgraber: Oh, thank you. :-P
[04:18] <jdong> imbrandon: you're a PPC guy... is it just me or is PPC ridiculously slow with ffmpeg or xvid encoding?
[04:19] <jdong> I'm looking right now at lower-than-Celeron-clock type encoding speed.....
[04:19] <Lathiat> could be an unoptimized build
[04:20] <Lathiat> not using altivec and stuff
[04:20] <imbrandon> right
[04:20] <jdong> stock Ubuntu builds?
[04:20] <jdong> Edgy ffmpeg
[04:20] <jdong> :-/
[04:20] <imbrandon> just because code does compile on a processor dosenty mean it takes advantage of it
[04:20] <jdong> true
[04:20] <imbrandon> e.g. 32bit code recompiled for 64 bit but still only using 32bits of addr space
[04:20] <jdong> I assumed our ffmpeg would be optimized on ppc for altivec
[04:21] <jdong> is there a disk equivalent of buffer(1)?
[04:21] <jdong> like a way for an excess stream to be thrown on the hard disk
[04:21] <jdong> while the encoder picks away at it....
[04:21] <jdong> buffer does that for RAM
[04:24] <jdong> I assume tee would block if its stdout is not read at a fast rate
[04:25] <imbrandon> and actualy no ppc ( under osx / pro software made for the ppc ) was made popular by being great at audio and video 
[04:25] <imbrandon> just fyi ;)
[04:25] <imbrandon> so with the right software ppc should actualy be faster
[04:25] <jdong> hehe :)
[04:25] <jdong> well a friend wants to capture TV streams
[04:26] <jdong> on a Mac Mini
[04:26] <jdong> the power king of the PPC's.
[04:26] <imbrandon> sure, thats easy, i do it on a mini at work all the time
[04:26] <imbrandon> then slingbox it
[04:26] <jdong> ubuntu ffmpeg/mpeg4 can't encode 640x352-whatnot at 30fps :(
[04:27] <imbrandon> umm and the mac mini's are minimum dual 1.6 intels too btw
[04:27] <imbrandon> not ppc
[04:27] <jdong> even when I put it at settings that would make a grown man cry
[04:27] <jdong> no there's PPC mac mini's
[04:27] <jdong> 1.25-1.5GHz PPC G4
[04:27] <jdong> the Core ones came out afterwards.....
[04:28] <jdong> if I were dealing with one of those, there woul dbe no issue ;-)
[04:28] <imbrandon> man that thing is like 3 years old heh
[04:28] <jdong> a nice multithreaded H264 even :D
[04:28] <imbrandon> if not more
[04:28] <jdong> 2 years old  ish
[04:28] <jdong> released January 2005
[04:28] <imbrandon> no way , the intel has been oput more than a yea and before that it was g5
[04:28] <jdong> 2005 Macworld.
[04:29] <jdong> and it kept on getting incremental upgrades until the Intel ones got out
[04:29] <jdong> like Feb 2006-ish
[04:29] <imbrandon> anyhow it should have no problems i encode realtime on my 800mhz g3 with 640mb ram
[04:29] <imbrandon> your fskin something up ;)
[04:29] <jdong> is that with Gentoo or Ubuntu?
[04:30] <jdong> maybe I should take compiling ffmpeg into my own hands then
[04:30] <imbrandon> never ran gentoo
[04:30] <ivoks> minis are crap
[04:30] <ivoks> :D
[04:30] <imbrandon> on it
[04:30] <imbrandon> ivoks, so is every other computer out there
[04:30] <imbrandon> point?
[04:31] <jdong> I'm using the most ridiculous mpeg4 settings one can bargain for... vcodec=mpeg4:mbd=2:trell:v4mv:turbo:psnr
[04:31] <ivoks> i always had worse results on them than on even slower machines
[04:31] <jaalto> I have sarted a truecrypt-installer project at lanchpad. The project 1) uses bzr for upstream 2) bzr for debian/ control and I've 3) already created *.deb packages. I'd like to know the procedure how the package can enter into the universe
[04:31] <jdong> that goes some 280fps on a 1.66GHz Core Duo, single-threaded...
[04:32] <ivoks> i never digged to find out why; i just don't use them anymore
[04:32] <imbrandon> jdong, so do the smart thing, rt encode it in something less processor intensive, and then transcode later
[04:33] <imbrandon> jaalto, upload it to REVU and poke arround in here , /topic forthe url to REVU and info about it
[04:33] <jdong> yeah I guess
[04:33] <jdong> imbrandon: ya sure there's no buffer-like program for disk?
[04:33] <jdong> it's SO CLOSE to realtime that would work
[04:33] <imbrandon> i never said one way or the other, have no idea
[04:33] <jdong> just need to buffer like 1GB of uncompressed material to the disk in the course of an hour
[04:33] <jdong> like right now it's 23fps... 30 would cut it :(
[04:34] <imbrandon> just rt incode it with something sane ( or do the "right thing"(tm) and get a hardware mpeg-2 encoder and use -0- processor )
[04:34] <metres> Hi all, do anyone know where to find a recent config.sub and config.guess files ?
[04:35] <imbrandon> arent they generated when you build
[04:36] <imbrandon> anyhow, brb smoke break
[04:38] <metres> I found them in /usr/share/misc ...
[05:12] <imbrandon> jaalto, not automaticly, i'll sync the keys now, i'll poke you when its done
[05:13] <jaalto> imbrandon, I've also now uploaded the truecrypt-installer package to REVU
[05:13] <imbrandon> jaalto, ok it will likely reject it untill the key is fuly synced
[05:14] <jaalto> Ok. I'll upload again when you notify when the key is ready
[05:19] <nixternal> imbrandon: for that ktorrent boog, I need to do release and release-backports for <edgy correct?
[05:19] <nixternal> so there will be 2 for breezy, 2 for dapper, 2 for edgy, and 1 for fesity
[05:19] <nixternal> s/fesity/feisty
[05:20] <imbrandon> umm no because its not backporting the feisty version, ONLY fixing the security in the existing versions of breezy to edgy
[05:20] <nixternal> well there are 2 versions each in breezy, dapper, and edgy
[05:21] <nixternal> 1 in main/universe, and 1 in backports
[05:21] <imbrandon> then you will have 6 seperate patches , one for each version
[05:21] <nixternal> k, that's what I thought, just wanted to double check
[05:21] <imbrandon> because the version will not be updatyed, only the security patch
[05:22] <imbrandon> actualy
[05:22] <imbrandon> i'm wrong
[05:22] <nixternal> making it .1
[05:22] <imbrandon> only 3
[05:22] <imbrandon> not 6
[05:22] <nixternal> ok, with 3 which ones do I fix then, the main release, or the backported release
[05:22] <imbrandon> because the one in security will be umm shit
[05:22] <nixternal> lol
[05:23] <imbrandon> yea this sucks , what will have to happen then will be security to fix the one in main, then the backports will need to be re-backported
[05:23] <imbrandon> thus gettign the security version from the version ahead of it
[05:23] <imbrandon> see what i mean ?
[05:23] <nixternal> heh, just create a new 2.1.2 package. that fixes everything :)
[05:24] <imbrandon> so only 3 patches but 6 archive changes
[05:24] <nixternal> so patch main?
[05:24] <nixternal> and leave backports alone
[05:24] <imbrandon> patch main, then re-request a backport AFTER the -securioty is uplaoded
[05:24] <imbrandon> for ewach one
[05:24] <nixternal> gotcha
[05:25] <imbrandon> actualy it will be universe for some main for others but still
[05:25] <imbrandon> you know what i mean
[05:26] <nixternal> I think breezy is the only one in universe
[05:26] <nixternal> the rest were main
[05:26] <imbrandon> when crimsun is arround you might poke him too to make sure i'm right on that but i'm pretty sure thats the way it needs to be done
[05:26] <nixternal> yes, breezy is the only one in universe
[05:26] <nixternal> breezy is a tricky one as well, seeing as the chunkcounter isn't even in that release
[05:26] <imbrandon> but yea patch the main/universe one , then re-request the backport , it should then pull from -security
[05:27] <nixternal> OK, I don't understand the backports yet, I have to read up on it
[05:27] <imbrandon> i can file the backports if you want
[05:27] <imbrandon> mainly worry about the other
[05:27] <imbrandon> then poke me ;)
[05:27] <nixternal> because right now that doesn't make sense to me. Edgy main version == 2.0.3.dfsg1-0ubuntu1 and the Edgy backport version == 2.1-0ubuntu1~edgy1
[05:28] <nixternal> ya, backporting is a new beast, and is obvioulsy different than what I thought it was
[05:28] <imbrandon> right the backport version came from feisty
[05:28] <nixternal> ahhh
[05:28] <imbrandon> thus a bigger number
[05:28] <nixternal> ok then, it all makes sense :)
[05:29] <imbrandon> looking though i dunno why the dfsg was dropped, the data better not be in there
[05:29] <imbrandon> i'll have to check that later
[05:29] <imbrandon> it should have the geoip stuff ripped out
[05:29] <imbrandon> for the dfsg one
[05:31] <nixternal> ahh, ya I see where they ripped the gioip stuff with patches
[05:32] <shawarma> which package are you talking about?
[05:32] <imbrandon> yea that was a pita, the geoip images arent free
[05:32] <imbrandon> ktorrent
[05:32] <shawarma> oh
[05:32] <imbrandon> anyhow brb
[05:34] <Lathiat> man i hate it when you find an old ssh key
[05:34] <Lathiat> and im tryign to remember the passphrase
[05:34] <Lathiat> and i have 16/24 characters, can't remember the correct sequence of the last 8 :P
[05:57] <Adri2000> what should I do for a package that depends on libgl1-mesa, libglu1-mesa? (libgl1-mesa doesn't exist)
[05:58] <jdong> remove it from the archives *rolleyes*
[06:01] <geser> Adri2000: have you tried to rebuild it?
[06:02] <Adri2000> geser: they are hard coded dependencies, not ${shlibs:Depends}
[06:04] <stgraber> shawarma: :( It's quite a lot of changes to add only two checkboxes :) (Import/Export/Store/Read the settings)
[06:04] <shawarma> stgraber: Oh, that's not all.
[06:04] <stgraber> I know, it's only the setting box part :)
[06:04] <shawarma> stgraber: You also need to catch it in the helper and pass it properly to the vpnc binary.
[06:05] <shawarma> stgraber: I'm thinking about redoing it somehow. It really shouldn't be this difficult.
[06:06] <stgraber> hmm bad, only one of my two settings are correctly re-read :( I'll have to check where I did something wrong :)
[06:07] <geser> Adri2000: the description for libgl1-mesa in dapper says GLX runtime so try libgl1-mesa-glx
[06:08] <Adri2000> ok
[06:08] <shawarma> stgraber: It really should be a matter of adding something like BOOLEAN("Single DES", "--enable-1des", 1des) to a list of options and then magic should happen.
[06:08] <shawarma> stgraber: So much sucky code, so little time.
[06:09] <stgraber> shawarma: Indeed
[06:09] <stgraber> pbuilding for the 5th time :) (just to have the settings box working)
[06:36] <Q-FUNK> can anybody think of an APT pinning trick to prevent a package from ever being removed?
[06:37] <Monk-e> Q-FUNK, bah that has spyware written all over it. Why would you want to do that?
[06:38] <Lathiat> Q-FUNK: mark it essential :P
[06:38] <Q-FUNK> Monk-e: because another package tries to remove it.
[06:38] <Monk-e> lol ok.
[06:39] <Q-FUNK> Lathiat: that only works when building it.
[06:44] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: Mark it as hold?
[06:44] <Q-FUNK> doesn't work
[06:44] <ivoks> +1001
[06:44] <Q-FUNK> something insists on trying to remove it because of a versioned conflict
[06:44] <ivoks> i have wine pined from dapper
[06:44] <Q-FUNK> ivoks: yup, tried that.  doesn't work.
[06:45] <ivoks> Package: wine
[06:45] <ivoks> Pin: release a=dapper
[06:45] <ivoks> Pin-Priority: 1001
[06:45] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: Specifics, please. Why doesn't it work?
[06:45] <Q-FUNK> shawarma: scroll above.  versioned conflict
[06:46] <Q-FUNK> an OOo plug-in
[06:46] <Q-FUNK> the new OOo beta in Feisty conflicts with it
[06:46] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: And it's about to be removed because OOo is about to be upgraded?
[06:46] <shawarma> So you want to keep the plugin and the old OOo?
[06:46] <Q-FUNK> pinning the plugin should prevent the upgrade, but it doesn't work
[06:46] <Q-FUNK> yup
[06:47] <ivoks> it's obviuos: don't install oo.o
[06:47] <ivoks> you should pin ooo, not plugin
[06:47] <Q-FUNK> well, no
[06:48] <Q-FUNK> the idea is to always give priority to keeping a version of that pluging installed
[06:48] <ivoks> so, that plugin also gets updates?
[06:48] <Q-FUNK> updates and rebuilds to match new OOo releases
[06:49] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: Perhaps you could reveal which pluginn it is?
[06:49] <Q-FUNK> openoffice.org-voikko
[06:49] <jdong> apt-get upgrade never forces things to uninstall, right?
[06:49] <jdong> as opposed to dist-upgrade.
[06:49] <ivoks> right
[06:49] <Q-FUNK> jdong: true, but pinning should also work 
[06:50] <ivoks> you didn't pin it well :)
[06:50] <Q-FUNK> ...with dist-upgrade
[06:50] <jdong> ivoks: you sound like an acupuncturist
[06:50] <jdong> "didn't pin it right"
[06:50] <ivoks> :)
[06:50] <jdong> :)
[06:50] <Q-FUNK> ivoks: if you say so.  how would you pin it?
[06:50] <ivoks> Package: name_of_package
[06:50] <ivoks> Pin: version version_of_package
[06:50] <ivoks> Pin-Priority: 1001
[06:51] <ivoks> Package: openoffice.org-voikko
[06:51] <ivoks> Pin: version 1.1-4build1
[06:51] <ivoks> Pin-Priority: 1001
[06:51] <Q-FUNK> the idea is NOT to pin a specific version
[06:52] <ivoks> then i don't understand what you want
[06:52] <Q-FUNK> Package: openoffice.org-voikko
[06:52] <Q-FUNK> Pin: version *
[06:52] <Q-FUNK> Pin-Priority: 100001
[06:53] <ivoks> so, that will update that package every time
[06:53] <ivoks> except you have one 0 too many
[06:53] <Q-FUNK> I want to give priority to keeping ooo-voikko installed (any version, as long as it never get removed) over upgrading anything that could try to remove it
[06:54] <Q-FUNK> upgrades of ooo-voikko or ooo are welcome, just as long as ooo-voikko never, ever gets removed, under any circumstance
[06:55] <Q-FUNK> if upgrading ooo would mean deinstalling ooo-voikko, I want APT pinning to prevent that and keep the old the ooo, if that's what it takes to keep ooo-voikko installed.
[06:56] <ivoks> it works with my pining
[06:56] <ivoks> apt-get install wine-dev
[06:56] <ivoks>  wine-dev: Depends: wine (= 0.9.32-0ubuntu1) but 0.9.9-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
[06:56] <Q-FUNK> basically, what I need is the pinning equivalent of marking ooo-voikko as essential.
[06:57] <Q-FUNK> obviously it does, since you pin down a specific version and tell it to never upgrade it
[06:57] <ivoks> no
[06:57] <ivoks> Pin: release a=dapper
[06:57] <ivoks> :)
[06:57] <ivoks> i'm not sure you can do with pining that
[07:35] <nixternal> keescook: bug 91174 - all patches added (debdiffs), test builds good
[07:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91174 in ktorrent "KTorrent security issue with releases <2.1.2 (Breezy - Feisty)" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91174
[08:25] <Adri2000> zakame: ping
[08:30] <animimotus> a bug report has been made some weeks ago for the conky's backport to edgy... what else to have a letzrulez update ? :)
[08:30] <Adri2000> animimotus: please remind me the bug number
[08:31] <animimotus> wait
[08:32] <animimotus> Adri2000: take that my friend https://launchpad.net/edgy-backports/+bug/82543 ;)
[08:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82543 in edgy-backports "Please a backport Conky to Edgy ?" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[08:35] <Adri2000> I don't know how many +1 are needed
[08:38] <lionel> Adri2000: I think only one hack from a member of ubuntu-backporter is needed
[08:38] <lionel> jdong can tell us about it :)
[08:39] <animimotus> lionel: I had made you a hl 2 or 3 weeks ago too :)
[08:39] <lionel> animimotus: maybe... about what ? You get and answer ? 
[08:39] <animimotus> no answer
[08:40] <lionel> sorry for that :-(
[08:41] <animimotus> the answer was not needed absolutely, only the backport ^^
[08:43] <animimotus> we understand that it's a lot of work to maintien all, sure the postgresql-8.2's package has perhaps the priority
[08:43] <animimotus> conky is just a little feature
[08:45] <stgraber> shawarma: Setting/Saving/Importing and Exporting work :) Just have to work on the helper thing now :)
[08:46] <ajmitch> morning
[08:47] <Adri2000> zakame: you merged the package ctsim... "Kept changes: + Add .desktop file.", the problem is that this change has been included in debian, and that another (actual) ubuntu change in debian/control (dependency change) is missing in the changelog. you should be more careful when merging.
[08:52] <shawarma> stgraber: Excellent.
[09:09] <stgraber> shawarma: If I've correctly understood the way the helper works, I'd not even have to touch to its code
[09:09] <stgraber> apparently it simply puts everything to the config file and the execute, I'll simply have to change the way I store the data in gconf
[09:10] <shawarma> stgraber: Possibly.
[09:18] <imbrandon> yes backports only need one test/ack from a -backports member
[09:18] <imbrandon> lionel, ^^
[09:18] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
[09:19] <shawarma> stgraber: It's different with the openvpn plugin, but that's entirely possible.
[09:21] <lionel> imbrandon: thanks !
[09:23] <ajmitch> hello imbrandon 
[09:39] <zoli2k>  Hi, I built a ubuntu based usb distro and I have a problem, that the system is not able to reboot or halt. Can anybody help me? How Can I debug my problem?
[09:41] <jdong> lionel: enjoying the liberties of life for two weeks (like 4 hrs sleep, time to eat food without reading calc textbooks, etc), will process backports next week.
[09:41] <TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
[09:42] <lionel> jdong: no pb :)
[10:08] <stgraber> shawarma: around ?
[10:09] <shawarma> stgraber: Oui.
[10:10] <stgraber> shawarma: I think my patch works but as I don't currently have access to any Cisco VPN I can't really test it :)
[10:10] <shawarma> Nafallo: I think you broke my mplayer. Now I hate you. :-(
[10:10] <jdong> is cisco vpn the one you use vpnc with?
[10:10] <shawarma> stgraber: Oh. Well, not only does it have to be a Cisco VPN. it also has to be one that uses Single DES.
[10:11] <shawarma> jdong: Yes.
[10:11] <jdong> I have that... I think....
[10:11] <jdong> shawarma: network manager's icon disappears when I try to use it though :)
[10:12] <shawarma> jdong: Not good.
[10:12] <stgraber> Anyone around here would like to test the package and just tell me if he can at least connect ? the patch adds the DNS and Nat options
[10:12] <shawarma> jdong: ...probably means that nm died.
[10:12] <jdong> shawarma: Iguess tha'ts not supposed to happen :)
[10:12] <stgraber> shawarma: yep, I had that during my testing :)
[10:12] <shawarma> stgraber: eh? Which bug are we talking about?
[10:12] <stgraber> bug 88073
[10:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88073 in network-manager-vpnc "[Feisty]  NetworkManager Cisco VPN NAT options missing" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88073
[10:12] <stgraber> not really a bug (like the OpenVPN one)
[10:12] <shawarma> Uh, Launchpad beta is delightfully snappy right now.
[10:13] <shawarma> stgraber: I thought you were working on bug 90200
[10:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90200 in network-manager-vpnc "I do not connect to vpn" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90200
[10:14] <shawarma> stgraber: It's fine though. I just got them mixed up.
[10:14] <shawarma> stgraber: hence my remark about single DES.
[10:15] <shawarma> jdong: apport should have caught the crash. Could you file a bug, please?
[10:15] <stgraber> I should be able to add this as well as It's also an option to add
[10:15] <jdong> shawarma: didn't seem to crash....
[10:15] <jdong> dong@severance:~/tmp/The Office Season 3 ep. 1-14$ ps aux | grep nm-applet
[10:15] <jdong> jdong     6048  0.0  1.3  76912 13624 ?        Sl   Mar10   0:02 nm-applet
[10:15] <shawarma> jdong: check /var/crash 
[10:15] <shawarma> jdong: No, not the applet. NetworkManager
[10:15] <stgraber> shawarma: apport doesn't catch the crash when the icon disappear
[10:15] <shawarma> stgraber: Yes, it does. :-)
[10:16] <shawarma> stgraber: Check /var/crash, and you'll see.
[10:16] <stgraber> shawarma: Nope, it did around 12 times and there were stricly nothing in /var/crash :(
[10:16] <stgraber> stgraber@laptop:~$ ls /var/crash/ | wc -l
[10:16] <stgraber> 0
[10:16] <shawarma> stgraber: Well, it does on my system.
[10:16] <shawarma> Weirdness.
[10:17] <jdong> shawarma: nope, no apport love.
[10:17] <shawarma> stgraber: How did you debug it?
[10:17] <shawarma> stgraber: --no-daemon and gdb?
[10:18] <shawarma> stgraber: Sorry to tell you, but the dns-update needs to go away again.
[10:18] <shawarma> stgraber: NetworkManager handles that.
[10:18] <shawarma> stgraber: Or does it..
[10:19] <shawarma> stgraber: It has changed so many times now, I can't remember.
[10:20] <shawarma> stgraber: Yes, our network-manager modifies resolv.conf. If we let vpnc do it as well, something is bound to implode.
[10:21] <shawarma> stgraber: The way it currently works is that the plugins tells nm which options it wants in resolv.conf and then nm puts them there.
[10:21] <stgraber> and I can't easily retrive that from vpnc ...
[10:21] <stgraber> ok, for the moment I'll replace DNS update with the DES stuff :)
[10:22] <Nafallo> shawarma: bug#? :-)
[10:26] <shawarma> Nafallo: None yet. I wanted your input before filing one.
[10:26] <shawarma> Nafallo: I just upgraded 411 packages, so I'm not even sure it's mplayer itself that's broken.
[10:26] <Nafallo> haha
[10:27] <Nafallo> shoot
[10:27] <shawarma> Nafallo: I have an avi that I can play with -novideo and with -nosound, but with both sound and video, it fails miserably.
[10:27] <shawarma> Nafallo: Sorry, it's an mpg.
[10:27] <Nafallo> codecs?
[10:28] <Nafallo> what does it say if you run it from a console?
[10:28] <Nafallo> could you pastebin that? :-)
[10:28] <shawarma> Sure.
[10:29] <shawarma> Nafallo: http://pastebin.ca/391046
[10:30] <shawarma> Nafallo: And another: http://pastebin.ca/391050
[10:30] <shawarma> Nafallo: I've yet to find a video that plays properly.
[10:31] <stgraber> shawarma: Ok, I've just replaced the DNS-Update stuff by the Single DES option
[10:31] <shawarma> stgraber: Good man! :-)
[10:31] <shawarma> Nafallo: Just found a wmv that actually works. How ironic is that? :-)
[10:31] <stgraber> It's easier once you've understood how this stuff works ... (if it does really *works*)
[10:31] <Nafallo> shawarma: could you try with -ac mad
[10:32] <shawarma> Nafallo: That fixes it!
[10:32] <jdong> Nafallo: so is "How many MOTU-Media's does it take to screw up mp3lib" the new joke around here? ;-)
[10:32] <shawarma> Nafallo: Except the a/v is out of sync.
[10:32] <jdong> shawarma: that's a mplayer FEATURE. :)
[10:32] <Nafallo> jdong: we've disabled that terribly broken thing again :-)
[10:33] <Nafallo> hmm
[10:34] <Nafallo> shawarma: when did it last work? :-)
[10:34] <shawarma> Nafallo: A couple of hours ago before upgrading those 411 packages. :-)
[10:35] <Nafallo> what version did you have before then? :-)
[10:35] <shawarma> Nafallo: It's been a few days since my last update, unfortunately.
[10:35] <Nafallo> so probably ubuntu3 :-P
[10:35] <shawarma> 2:1.0~rc1-0ubuntu3
[10:35] <shawarma> right.
[10:37] <Nafallo> aha. so you didn't have the security updates...
[10:37] <shawarma> In Feisty? No.
[10:37] <Nafallo> ubuntu4 and 5 was security-updates by Kees :-)
[10:37] <shawarma> There's something in feisty-security already?
[10:37] <shawarma> Madness.
[10:37] <Nafallo> it's either them or me disabling mp3lib again :-)
[10:37] <shawarma> libmad-ness, even.
[10:38] <shawarma> Do you want me to try anything?
[10:38] <Nafallo> no, they go to the regular release-cycle :-)
[10:38] <shawarma> Ok. Thought so.
[10:38] <Nafallo> right now I need to look what code has been changed by Kees :-)
[10:38] <shawarma> Should I try those in-betweens?
[10:39] <shawarma> I have the blue belt in Launchpad fu, so I can find them.. :-)
[10:40] <shawarma> Should I try all of 4, 5 and 6 or is there any one you suspect more than the others?
[10:40] <stgraber> shawarma: ok, the changes seem to work (Nat Traversal and Single DES)
[10:40] <stgraber> anyone around here who would be able to try one of those options ?
[10:41] <Nafallo> shawarma: you could try 5 :-)
[10:41] <shawarma> Nafallo: ok.
[10:41] <welshbyte> i think gst-plugins0.8 just needs a rebuild to fix bug 91446, the ${shlibs:Depends} takes care of it
[10:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91446 in gst-plugins0.8 "gstreamer0.8-misc depends on libwavpack0 which isn't available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91446
[10:42] <Nafallo> shawarma: and tell me if it uses mp3lib with it :-)
[10:43] <shawarma> Nafallo: Is it just me or isn't the weirdest part that it can play audio by itself and video by itself, but not together?
[10:43] <shawarma> Nafallo: 5 works.
[10:44] <Nafallo> shawarma: does it use ffmpeg for video and mp3lib for sound? :-)
[10:44] <shawarma> Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib]  MPEG layer-2, layer-3
[10:44] <Nafallo> *sigh*
[10:44] <shawarma> Why don't we like it?
[10:45] <Nafallo> every time I enable or disable it I get bugreports...
[10:45] <Nafallo> :-P
[10:45] <Nafallo> bug #85751
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85751 in mplayer "Distorted MP3 sound" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85751
[10:45] <shawarma> Nafallo: Oh.
[10:46] <crimsun> welshbyte: yes, I handled audacious-plugins similarly yesterday
[10:46] <shawarma> Nafallo: Sucks to be you, huh?
[10:46] <Nafallo> hehe
[10:46] <shawarma> :-P
[10:47] <welshbyte> crimsun: do i need to notify someone to get that done or can i leave it from here?
[10:47] <shawarma> stgraber: Could you e-mail me the patch? I'll take a look at it and try testing it
[10:47] <crimsun> bug 91446
[10:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91446 in gst-plugins0.8 "gstreamer0.8-misc depends on libwavpack0 which isn't available" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91446
[10:47] <crimsun> welshbyte: note the assignee and the status.
[10:47] <shawarma> stgraber: Or attach it to the bug or whatever.
[10:49] <stgraber> shawarma: I'll attach the debdiff to 88073
[10:51] <shawarma> crimsun: Your uploading my vim patch yesterday got me thinking.. The way I see it, we have the MOTU acceptance process in place to make sure that whoever has upload rights to universe knows what they're doing and won't break a lot of stuff, while upload privileges to main seems to handed out only if you seem to have a specific purpose for getting it. In your case it seems to be alsa stuff (correct me if I'm wrong).. That kind of makes sense, but then 
[10:52] <crimsun> shawarma: was there something appended to "but then"?
[10:53] <shawarma> crimsun: Yes. "That kind of makes sense, but then why is it ok for anyone in core-dev to upload any package regardless of what their stated purpose for becoming core-dev was?
[10:53] <shawarma> crimsun: "
[10:53] <shawarma> crimsun: I don't really expect you to answer it.. I'm just wondering.
[10:53] <stgraber> shawarma: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6729820/nm-vpnc.diff
[10:53] <ajmitch> because it's generally not just handed out to people with a specific area to touch
[10:54] <ajmitch> but because they've been able to be trusted to use their judgement & not break main
[10:54] <crimsun> shawarma: as ajmitch alluded to, core-dev is also an explicit trust stamp
[10:55] <crimsun> also, just because I have privs to upload upstart doesn't mean I should or am ;)
[10:55] <shawarma> ajmitch, crimsun: It's just my impression that trust is not enough. You also need to have a purpuse, but when you've been accepted, the purpose is just.. well.. not important anymore.
[10:56] <crimsun> no, the "purpose" is important
[10:56] <shawarma> I've seen people apply to become core-dev who have been -dev for a long time, but were rejected because they didn't have a specific reason for wanting core-dev privs.
[10:57] <crimsun> touching main/restricted source is a compelling but insufficient reason
[10:59] <shawarma> crimsun: Yes. And I don't quite understand that. Wanting to help out sounds like a good reason, too, and that particular reason is more than enough to get upload privs to the majority of Ubuntu (ie. universe).
[10:59] <crimsun> as core-dev, there's a tacit agreement to lead, too
[11:00] <shawarma> I suppose that's true.
[11:00] <crimsun> (note that IMO, there's a higher rung, too, which is Canonical employment for Ubuntu development)
[11:00] <shawarma> Right.
[11:00] <shawarma> I agree.
[11:04] <shawarma> stgraber: Off the top of my head, your patch looks good. I haven't tested it yet, just looked at it.
[11:06] <stgraber> shawarma: I should be able to get an account on the VPN server that needs this NAT Traversal options by tomorrow, then I'll really be able to test it
[11:08] <shawarma> stgraber: If you just make sure that the option is passed to vpnc, you're fine.
[11:11] <stgraber> The option is written in a config file then this file is passed to vpnc (If I've understood this part of the code)
[11:11] <shawarma> stgraber: That sounds about right. :-)
[11:11] <shawarma> stgraber: Well, IIRC it's not actually written to a conf file, but passed via a pipe.
[11:12] <stgraber> indeed :)
[11:13] <stgraber> well, that's the same syntax as the config file and this part of the soft is simply, receiving all the options from NetworkManager then if they are in the allowed options list they are put in this variable that's finally piped to vpnc
[11:15] <shawarma> stgraber: Yup.
[11:17] <ivoks> i've tested vpnc
[11:17] <Nafallo> shawarma: have you got one of those files somewhere? :-)
[11:17] <ivoks> it works like a charm
[11:18] <Fujitsu> Morning everyone.
[11:18] <ivoks> Fujitsu: 'evening :)
[11:18] <shawarma> Nafallo: Sure. 
[11:18] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: hi :-). shawarma has troubles since we disabled mp3lib ;-)
[11:18] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: surprised? :-)
[11:20] <Fujitsu> Nafallo: Not really (I read all the scrollback before I said hello)
[11:20] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: hehe :-)
[11:21] <stgraber> ivoks: You said you've tested the network-manager-vpnc patch ?
[11:21] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: I've read through .diff.gz and nothing strikes me :-)
[11:21] <ivoks> stgraber: patch? plugin, yes
[11:23] <shawarma> Nafallo: Just a sec. Uploading it to my server.
[11:23] <Nafallo> sure. thanks :-)
[11:24] <shawarma> Nafallo: http://warma.dk/snip.mpg 
[11:25] <shawarma> Nafallo: It's only the first 17 seconds that's supposed to work. The rest doesn't for some reason (and doesn't on Windows either). You didn't break it. :-)
[11:25] <shawarma> Nafallo: Or 27, maybe. Don't remember.
[11:26] <Nafallo> reproducible...
[11:29] <shawarma> stgraber: It works.
[11:29] <Fujitsu> It seems like the audio has all been compressed into the first half-second.
[11:29] <stgraber> shawarma: fine
[11:30] <stgraber> about your video, I don't have any sound problem using VLC
[11:30] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: libmad works though :-)
[11:30] <Nafallo> *scratches head*
[11:30] <shawarma> Nafallo: Try with -novideo
[11:31] <Fujitsu> Ah. That more useful.
[11:31] <Fujitsu> It's working fine, except for the bleeping stuff.
[11:31] <Nafallo> something is seriously disturted without video :-)
[11:31] <Nafallo> distorted :-9
[11:31] <Fujitsu> All those `Invalid new backstep's are the problem...
[11:32] <Nafallo> atleast all of us get the same stuff :-)
[11:32] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: i386 to?
[11:32] <Fujitsu> Yep, that's a first with this kind of issue.
[11:32] <Fujitsu> Nafallo: Yeah.
[11:33] <Fujitsu> I might try a SVN checkout and see if that works.
[11:33] <shawarma> Fujitsu, Nafallo: I have another one that works just fine with either -nosound or -novideo.
[11:33] <Nafallo> FFS!
[11:34] <Fujitsu> ?
[11:34] <Nafallo> I just tried a porno from the scene, and it's broken :-P
[11:34] <Fujitsu> So, it's our mplayer.
[11:34] <shawarma> OMG!!!!one!!!
[11:34] <Fujitsu> shawarma: It worked in ubuntu3?
[11:34] <shawarma> Yup.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> But, but, but.
[11:34] <shawarma> 5, even.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Can you try ubuntu4 or 5?
[11:34] <Nafallo> mp3lib ;-)
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> OK.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Fscking hell.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Gah.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> This is infuriating.
[11:34] <shawarma> See http://warma.dk/offspring.mpg
[11:34] <Fujitsu> It either breaks some people, or breaks others.
[11:35] <shawarma> It's uploading right now, so the entire file is no there yet, but it should be enough for you to try the -novideo thing.
[11:35] <Fujitsu> It works fine with the video, except for the audio being out of sync. That's the only problem.
[11:36] <Fujitsu> (where out of sync is a hundred times faster or so)
[11:36] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: didn't for me :-)
[11:36] <shawarma> mplayer has been working excellently for me for years, actually.
[11:37] <Fujitsu> shawarma: Same. I've not had issues with it before... 10 minutes aog.
[11:37] <Fujitsu> *ago
[11:37] <shawarma> It must be everyone else who's smoking crack.
[11:37] <stgraber> I've already had this issue on Feisty but I can't remember the mplayer version :(
[11:37] <shawarma> stgraber: You're not MOTU, right?
[11:37] <Nafallo> *sigh*
[11:37] <stgraber> shawarma: Indeed
[11:37] <Nafallo> what shall we do?
[11:38] <shawarma> stgraber: Ok. I've one comment for your debdiff:
[11:38] <Fujitsu> I'll check it is actually mad doing it, then try a SVN checkout.
[11:38] <shawarma> It's about the changelog. 2 seconds.
[11:39] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: mad works for me. disabling mp3lib makes it choose ffmpeg though...
[11:39] <Fujitsu> Oh.
[11:39] <Nafallo> I'll bet mp3lib works for us :-)
[11:40] <shawarma> stgraber: If you change it to something like http://pastebin.ca/391157 I'll upload it for you.
[11:42] <Nafallo> hmm
[11:42] <Nafallo> something is seriously wrong when I can't play my own porn...
[11:42] <shawarma> Precisely.
[11:43] <stgraber> shawarma: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/nm-vpnc.diff
[11:43] <shawarma> Malone bug eleventy billion in mplayer "Can't play porn!" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/omg!!!
[11:44] <Nafallo> haha
[11:44] <crimsun> fabbione would have your balls if that were the case
[11:44] <Nafallo> crimsun: it IS the case :-P
[11:44] <Fujitsu> crimsun: I remember you warning me about that before... Or was that MythTV.
[11:44] <crimsun> Fujitsu: likely the latter
[11:46] <jdong> shawarma: didn't someone make a pornjoke on a kaffeine bug report htis week? :D
[11:47] <crimsun> this xserver-xgl diff is nas-tay
[11:47] <ajmitch> of course it is
[11:47] <crimsun> my eyes are bleeding, and I normally deal with alsa, which says a lot
[11:48] <jdong> sorry guys :)
[11:48] <jdong> I still rest that the situation can't possibly get worse.
[11:48] <ajmitch> you will be
[11:48] <jdong> unless the debdiff says it eats babies
[11:48] <jdong> and not just the abandoned ones
[11:48] <jdong> like KDE3
[11:48] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: alsa!  yikes! you _are_ brave.
[11:49] <Nafallo> unability to watch porn are worse than eating babies...
[11:49] <Nafallo> damnit... I'm hated now, aren't I? :-P
[11:49] <ajmitch> yes
[11:50] <Nafallo> haha
[11:50] <jdong> Nafallo: my russian underage dog-on-cat beastiality movies don't play anymore!
[11:50] <Nafallo> lol
[11:52] <ajmitch> crimsun: why are you diving into the xgl debdiff anyway?
[11:55] <crimsun> ajmitch: pain and misery. Essentially taking a break from troubleshooting elmo's sound issue, which is also pain and misery.
[11:55] <shawarma> crimsun: Oh, yes, better keep elmo happy!
[11:55] <crimsun> I figure if I stare at this debdiff long enough, I'll weep and go running back to alsa.
[11:56] <shawarma> crimsun: Where is it?
[11:56] <shawarma> I want to feel your pain.
[11:57] <crimsun> http://librarian.launchpad.net/6526783/xserver-xgl.debdiff.bz2
[11:57] <crimsun> note, that's like 8MB compressed.
[11:57] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: speaking of ALSA, do you know anyone who could fix a few broken drivers and port a missing one from OSS?
[11:57] <crimsun> err, uncompressed
[11:57] <jdong> crimsun: I bz2'ed it for a reason :D
[11:57] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: sure, which broken ones and which unported one?
[11:58] <crimsun> I swear elmo's hw is possessed
[11:58] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: broken snd-powermac and unported snd-scx200 (Geode models prior sc5535 companiaon chip)
[11:59] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: which gen ppc?
[11:59] <Q-FUNK> heck, elmo himself is posessed ;)
[11:59] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: imac G3
[11:59] <Q-FUNK> Burgundy chip
[11:59] <crimsun> hmm, I'm getting a G3 through a loan; perhaps we can go through that
[12:00] <Q-FUNK> imac or some other G3 mac?
[12:00] <crimsun> I'm waiting on the loaner for more details
[12:00] <crimsun> sorry, don't have any additional details ATM
[12:00] <shawarma> crimsun: Any hints on what the diff is supposed to do?
[12:01] <Q-FUNK> of course, a re-write to fir the new snd-aop framework would probably be better (Ben and Johannes might be willing to help you with it too)
[12:01] <crimsun> shawarma: bug 87687 ; essentially a newer git snapshot
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87687 in xserver-xgl "New git snapshot required for xorg 7.2/feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87687
[12:01] <crimsun> shawarma: beware, that way misery crouches
[12:01] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: I'll make myself a note on my TODO.  when do you expect to hear more about the loaner?
[12:01] <jdong> shawarma: new upstream Xgl snapshot, compiles against Xorg 7.2, restores Xgl operation
[12:01] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: this week
[12:02] <jdong> shawarma: Xgl is totally broken on Feisty without it
[12:02] <Q-FUNK> .oO(some nick on this channel makes me think of tasty grilled meat)
[12:02] <crimsun> jdong: my two biggest issues with that debdiff so far are 1) its sheer invasiveness, 2) its clump
[12:03] <crimsun> jdong: breaking the debdiff into tasty morsels would go a long way to tackling both
[12:03] <jdong> crimsun: well... it's a new upstream snapshot... should I break it into its 200-some commits?
[12:03] <crimsun> jdong: not quite that extreme. Smaller portions based on subsystem would fare better.
[12:03] <jdong> Q-FUNK: no way you're grillin' my meat.
[12:04] <jdong> crimsun: what difference does it make? it only invades on Xgl itself
[12:04] <jdong> which can't possibly be in a worse shape now.
[12:04] <crimsun> I see that mesa is quite a bulk. Can the source be munged to build against system mesa?
[12:05] <jdong> crimsun: it's not wise (from what I gathered from SUSE camp) to build Xgl against arbitrary mesa
[12:05] <jdong> crimsun: they bundle a mesa in there for a reason....
[12:05] <jdong> it glitches like crazy if you build it against a mesa it don't like
[12:05] <jdong> and those are near impossible to trouble shoot
[12:05] <crimsun> jdong: it makes a huge difference. Currently it's 8MB uncompressed of diff. That's like throwing a cow at someone and asking him to find a sticker.
[12:05] <Q-FUNK> jdong: erm.  someone else's nick, actually.  middle-eastern grilled food.
[12:05] <jdong> that's..... one of the more.... interesting.... analogies I've heard....
[12:06] <crimsun> hmm, ok, so the bundled mesa is a requirement?  (sigh)
[12:06] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: i can't imagine who that would be..
[12:06] <Q-FUNK> ;)
[12:06] <shawarma> crimsun: A sticker, even?
[12:06] <jdong> crimsun: the risk of breakage and nontrivial breakage at that, rises sharply when you decouple it from its mesa... :(
[12:07] <Q-FUNK> shawarma: this is SO unfair.  and literally 1000 milles away from the nearest place to enjoy it.
[12:07] <crimsun> shawarma: yeah, just as random, too.
[12:07] <jdong> crimsun: I don't take pleasure in writing up absurdly huge debdiffs and making all your lives miserable
[12:07] <shawarma> crimsun: Oh.
[12:07] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: Where on earth are you?
[12:07] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: Antarctica?
[12:07] <shawarma> jdong: That's what they all say.
[12:07] <Q-FUNK> jdong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawarma
[12:08] <shawarma> Oh, they've written an article about me? About time!
[12:08] <Q-FUNK> shawarma: almost.  try Finland.
[12:09] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: And the nearest shawarma/kebab place is 1000 miles away?!?
[12:09] <Q-FUNK> just about yes
[12:09] <jdong> "Along with Falafel, Shawarma is considered the National Food of Israel." Is this really worth saying? I don't think this needs to be said.
[12:09] <jdong> _OUCH_
[12:09] <jdong> burn.
[12:09] <Q-FUNK> this country has fake kebab, no kafta and no tavuk.
[12:10] <shawarma> jdong: Where does it say that?
[12:10] <jdong> shawarma: Talk  page
[12:11] <jdong> shawarma: pretty harsh if you ask me :D
[12:12] <shawarma> jdong: I'm just wondering what all those capital letters were doing there..
[12:12] <Q-FUNK> I really hate this german beefcake that tries to pass for kebab in most of northern and central europe.
[12:12] <shawarma> jdong: Probably some German wrote it.
[12:12] <jdong> shawarma: talk pages are more interesting than wikipedia articles
[12:13] <jdong> shawarma: my favorite on a user's talkpage, "Stop translating articles to British English!"
[12:13] <shawarma> jdong: Really? I've never really looked at them.