[02:17] <malt^> ello from poland
[02:20] <malt^> anyone from boardman?
[07:41] <dfarning> @schedual
[09:12] <dfarning> @help
[09:12] <Ubugtu> (help [<plugin>]  [<command>] ) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
[09:13] <dfarning>  @help schedule
[09:13] <dfarning>  @schedule
[09:15] <fabbione> without the space at the beginning
[09:15] <fabbione> @schedule
[09:15] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:16] <dfarning> thanks
[09:16] <dfarning> @schedule
[09:16] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:17] <dfarning> @help schedule
[09:17] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[09:17] <dfarning> @schedule chicago
[09:17] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Mar 13:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 11:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 14:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[02:17] <asac> @schedule berlin
[02:17] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 12 Mar 19:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 20:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[04:49] <dfarning> @schedule chicago
[04:49] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Mar 13:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 11:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 14:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[04:51] <zul> @schedule montreal
[04:51] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 12 Mar 14:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 15:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[06:58] <LaserJock> is the Derivative meeting on in a couple minutes?
[06:59] <dfarning> LaserJock, yes will kick off soon good to have you here
[07:00] <dfarning> Looks like it is time to start;)
[07:00] <BackwardsDown> this is my first time, and before it goes off, may I ask you wat a "derative team meeting" is exactly?
[07:01] <dfarning> I just wanted to introduce everyone to the Derivatives Team
[07:01] <dfarning> the derative team is working on making is easier for distro to derive from ubuntu
[07:01] <BackwardsDown> ah k
[07:02] <BackwardsDown> like you are doing with linspire?
[07:02] <dfarning> or mission statement can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam
[07:03] <dfarning> current I am working on how linspire can work within the Ubuntu community
[07:04] <dfarning> currently most of our discussion are on how linsprire and Ubuntu can work together on issues handling
[07:04] <LaserJock> are you a linspire developer?
[07:04] <dfarning> LaserJock, no I am a guy who wanted firefox to not crash;)
[07:05] <LaserJock> maybe a little round of "who's here and from what" might be nice
[07:05] <dfarning> sounds good
[07:05] <dfarning> anyone?
[07:06] <LaserJock> heh
[07:06] <LaserJock> my name is Jordan Mantha and I'm a MOTU and also an Ichthux developer
[07:07] <LaserJock> Ichthux is a Kubuntu derivate, btw
[07:07] <dfarning> LaserJock, I didn't realize you were with Ichthux
[07:07] <LaserJock> *derivative
[07:07] <LaserJock> I've worked with 3 different *buntu derivatives so far
[07:07] <dfarning> I am interested in how you create meta packages
[07:07] <LaserJock> so I'm interested in seeing how this team works ;-)
[07:08] <LaserJock> well, meta packages are fairly easy, as you can look at the Ubuntu examples
[07:09] <dfarning> Well the next issue I want to bring up was our roadmap
[07:09] <LaserJock> we uses seeds just like Ubuntu and basically use the kubuntu-meta package as an example
[07:09] <dfarning> the first order of business is talking to various distos and seeing what we can do to make it easier for them
[07:10] <dfarning> to work with us
[07:11] <dfarning> LaserJock, what could we do to help Ichthux?
[07:11] <LaserJock> well
[07:11] <LaserJock> we've had a lot of success with the items you've mentioned
[07:11] <LaserJock> since the dev team is almost all *buntu contributors
[07:11] <LaserJock> all of our packages are in Universe
[07:12] <LaserJock> we used LP
[07:12] <LaserJock> and we've worked with the installer people on getting customized installtion stuff into Ubuntu
[07:12] <dfarning> Would you mind serving as a resource to other distros
[07:13] <LaserJock> I don't think we would
[07:13] <dfarning> cool
[07:13] <LaserJock> we are a bit dormaint right now, due to various things
[07:13] <LaserJock> but I think we'd be happy to help where we can
[07:13] <dfarning> the most common request I am getting is for help from localizations teams
[07:14] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:14] <LaserJock> what do they need?
[07:14] <LaserJock> I'd think it'd be fairly straightfoward with Reconstructor or UCK
[07:14] <dfarning> do you have a preference between the two tool kits
[07:15] <LaserJock> since we don't use either (and I haven'), no
[07:15] <dfarning> ;(
[07:15] <LaserJock> *haven't
[07:15] <dfarning> I would like to invite both project to join the team
[07:16] <LaserJock> that would be cool
[07:16] <dfarning> they seem to have a lot to offer
[07:16] <LaserJock> yes
[07:16] <LaserJock> I think about the only reason we don't use them is we build our .isos on a server and we have too many customizations to do
[07:17] <LaserJock> but they should be great for localization
[07:17] <dfarning> the next priority is to work with Canonical and Ubuntu to set policies for distros
[07:18] <dfarning> they are working on the trademark issue now
[07:18] <LaserJock> what kind of policies do you imaging?
[07:18] <LaserJock> *imagine
[07:18] <LaserJock> my spelling it terrible today
[07:18] <dfarning> mine too
[07:19] <LaserJock> I think if Canonical and Ubuntu started putting a bunch of "you have to do this" or "you can't do that" it might turn a lot of people away
[07:19] <LaserJock> where they have the right and obligation to do so (trademark for instance) then they should do it
[07:19] <dfarning> statements on how ubuntu will retain source code in their archives
[07:19] <LaserJock> yes, that'll be interesting
[07:20] <LaserJock> since I'm not sure what the FSF thinks of that
[07:20] <dfarning> yes is mostly legal issues
[07:20] <LaserJock> but it'd be good to see that
[07:20] <LaserJock> "Best Practices" would be helpful for sure
[07:20] <LaserJock> I've been pushing for derivatives, as much as possible, to work within Universe
[07:21] <dfarning> I am drafting a letter to the FSF to see if they will issue a statement on source code complience
[07:21] <dfarning> as it affect our team
[07:22] <dfarning> Yes, there are many distro who have been building knowledge and experience for several releases
[07:22] <LaserJock> I think it'd be good to get ahold of as many derivative as possible
[07:23] <LaserJock> see how many are interested in a closer relationship with Ubuntu and  other derivatives, etc.
[07:23] <dfarning> ;)
[07:23] <LaserJock> some of them will want nothing to do with it I suspect
[07:23] <dfarning> that has happened all ready
[07:23] <dfarning> many distros want to go their own way
[07:24] <dfarning> hopefully others will see the advantage of working together
[07:25] <LaserJock> well, I think it'd be good to show that it *can* be helpful
[07:25] <LaserJock> I think mostly the Linux derivative model is a bit of a ineasy dislike
[07:25] <dfarning> yes, I that is what got me interest in this project
[07:26] <dfarning> the toss the tarball over the fence attitude
[07:27] <LaserJock> but we've had really good success in Ichthux
[07:27] <LaserJock> our biggest example is that we were able to get patches into the Ubuntu installer
[07:27] <LaserJock> that allowed us to give added language support
[07:27] <dfarning> the third issues that I would like to cover is issues handling
[07:28] <LaserJock> mediation?
[07:28] <dfarning> mediation?
[07:29] <LaserJock> do you mean mediation between Ubuntu and derivatives?
[07:29] <dfarning> sorry bug handing
[07:30] <LaserJock> ah
[07:30] <dfarning> Would like to work with Canoncial and Ubuntu about having use LP
[07:30] <LaserJock> using Launchpad makes all of that much easier
[07:30] <dfarning> having derivatives use LP
[07:31] <LaserJock> well, I think it's very much in Canonical's mind to have Launchpad used by derivatives
[07:31] <dfarning> I agree, but I don't want to commit their resources
[07:31] <LaserJock> several do already for pretty much everything but archive/iso management
[07:32] <dfarning> I believe that Canonical has commerical support agreement with some distos to use LP
[07:32] <LaserJock> well, most derivatives won't need that I don't think
[07:33] <dfarning> I need to follow up with Matthew Revell about that
[07:33] <LaserJock> until they want to start doing a lot of soyuz stuff
[07:33] <dfarning> that is one of the policy type questions
[07:33] <LaserJock> but Ichthux uses Launchpad for basically everything but the website/forums
[07:34] <LaserJock> specifications, bugs, potentially translations
[07:34] <dfarning> yes and from what I have seen it work great for you
[07:36] <dfarning> the forth issues is issue handling (the mediation type)
[07:36] <LaserJock> in the future Launchpad will also have Personal Package Archives which will be handy for derivatives
[07:36] <LaserJock> bazaar.launchpad.net is also very handy
[07:37] <dfarning> really, what are personal package archives?
[07:37] <cjwatson> PPA => "please dpkg-buildpackage this branch and stick the result in a little apt archive"
[07:38] <LaserJock> exactly
[07:38] <cjwatson> approximately
[07:38] <LaserJock> ;-)
[07:38] <cjwatson> heh
[07:38] <dfarning> very helpful
[07:38] <dfarning> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Governance
[07:39] <dfarning> I just wanted to bring up a draft of our governance document
[07:39] <LaserJock> ok, I have a fundamental question here
[07:39] <dfarning> yes
[07:39] <LaserJock> is there even enough interest to create a Derivative "team"?
[07:39] <dfarning> ;(
[07:40] <LaserJock> I see a lot of teams created that don't really get anywhere
[07:40] <dfarning> Maybe not yet
[07:40] <LaserJock> not trying to be down here
[07:40] <dfarning> but I think their will be
[07:40] <LaserJock> but you're talking policies, collaboration, governance
[07:40] <LaserJock> and there's basically 2 of us here
[07:41] <dfarning> there are a lot of derivative out there that are basically recreating the wheel
[07:41] <LaserJock> right
[07:41] <gnomefreak> 3
[07:41] <dfarning> if will take some perservence
[07:41] <LaserJock> but a team sort of implies people are going to come to the table
[07:42] <dfarning> The Mozilla Team was just me a few months ago
[07:42] <LaserJock> I was more of a mind to start with the mailing list and wiki namespace to put "best practices" and related info
[07:42] <LaserJock> the Derivative Council is a good idea
[07:43] <LaserJock> but it doesn't seem plausible or potent at this time, IMO
[07:44] <LaserJock> you know what I mean?
[07:44] <dfarning> not yet but I am willing to give it a few months;)
[07:44] <LaserJock> sure
[07:44] <LaserJock> but you also have to take it one step at a time
[07:44] <LaserJock> I think what you've got is a great end goal/roadmap
[07:45] <dfarning> baby steps;)
[07:45] <LaserJock> yes
[07:46] <pochu> 4
[07:46] <pochu> ;)
[07:46] <dfarning> yes first step is to start converstions with derivatives;)
[07:46] <LaserJock> ok, so how many derivatives do we know that might be interested?
[07:47] <dfarning> 10 to 15
[07:47] <LaserJock> are you in contact with them?
[07:47] <dfarning> yes, email and phone;)
[07:47] <joejaxx> i am sorry everyone :\ i am here now
[07:47] <pochu> dfarning: we (spanish team) are thinking in do a Spanish localized Ubuntu :)
[07:48] <LaserJock> ok, so maybe to start with there needs to be a list of member derivatives
[07:48] <LaserJock> hi joejaxx
[07:48] <leogg> dfarning: should also contact the loco teams
[07:48] <joejaxx> hello leogg
[07:48] <joejaxx> LaserJock: *
[07:48] <leogg> hi joejaxx
[07:48] <joejaxx> :)
[07:48] <dfarning> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Derivatives
[07:49] <dfarning> is an incomplete list
[07:49] <leogg> pochu: we (ubuntu-ni) are working on a similar project
[07:49] <pochu> leogg: nicaragua?
[07:49] <pochu> leogg: also ubuntu-co is doing it
[07:49] <pochu> leogg: I'm going to contact everyone interested, to join efforts :)
[07:50] <dfarning> outstanding
[07:50] <LaserJock> dfarning: interesting, 2 out of the 3 derivatives I've work with aren't on there
[07:50] <leogg> pochu: great!
[07:50] <pochu> leogg: please join #ubuntu-es-web ;)
[07:50] <LaserJock> dfarning: what I meant though, was start a derivative membership drive
[07:50] <pochu> dfarning: I'll update that page
[07:51] <dfarning> I am going to have a converation with jono about how to collaborate between locos and the derivaative team
[07:51] <dfarning> thanks for updating your information
[07:52] <joejaxx> dfarning: did you base that list on the canonical one?
[07:52] <LaserJock> joejaxx: is it still Fluxbuntu or have you changed it?
[07:52] <dfarning> can you send me emails also at dfarning@gmail.com so I don't lose track
[07:52] <joejaxx> LaserJock: that might be why, they are not included on it
[07:52] <joejaxx> LaserJock: it is still fluxbuntu at this point
[07:52] <dfarning> yes it was based on the Canonical list
[07:53] <dfarning> adding distros as they introduce themselves
[07:53] <LaserJock> there are many more
[07:53] <LaserJock> so many Ubuntu derivatives ...
[07:53] <dfarning> yes, but as you said baby steps
[07:53] <LaserJock> the MOTU in me wants to cry
[07:53] <dfarning> ;)
[07:54] <joejaxx> :)
[07:54] <dfarning> I have not been doing to much advertising
[07:54] <LaserJock> ok, how about a call to derivatives to participate
[07:54] <LaserJock> I think it'd be good to have a list of participating projects
[07:55] <dfarning> currently, I am approaching them one at a time.
[07:55] <gnomefreak> do most derivatives have mailing lists? if so easy to send them a post :)
[07:55] <LaserJock> joejaxx: does fluxbuntu want to participate?
[07:55] <LaserJock> :-)
[07:55] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: please say yes
[07:55] <dfarning> gnomefreak, some do and some don't
[07:56] <joejaxx> LaserJock: yes :) i was interested the day dfarning sent the mailing list post
[07:56] <dfarning> it is sad how many are orphaned
[07:56] <LaserJock> joejaxx: has _MMA_ talked about it?
[07:57] <joejaxx> dfarning: there is a larger list on the bottom of the ubuntu wiki page on wikipedia.org
[07:57] <dfarning> _MMA_?
[07:57] <joejaxx> LaserJock: not that much i am going to talk to him about it today
[07:57] <joejaxx> dfarning: ubuntu studio :)
[07:57] <LaserJock> dfarning: _MMA_ is the lead of Ubuntu Studio
[07:57] <dfarning> joejaxx, thanks
[07:57] <joejaxx> dfarning: you are most welcome
[07:57] <dfarning> ah
[07:58] <LaserJock> dfarning: I'll talk it over with Ichthux devs but I'm pretty sure we're interested
[07:58] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: what is browser and email default in fluxbuntu?
[07:58] <dfarning> guadlinux is also interested
[07:58] <dfarning> they are a very well done distro!
[07:59] <LaserJock> dfarning: hmmm, what about DerivativeTeam/ParticipatingProjects
[07:59] <LaserJock> with a brief "This is what it means to participate" at the top
[07:59] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: firefox and sylpheed
[08:00] <dfarning> makes sense,  this is a work in progress;)
[08:00] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: i was considering mozilla browser but that is not in the repos at this point to my understanding
[08:00] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: you gonna be around in next 24-48 hours?
[08:00] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: yes
[08:01] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: ok ill ping you when i get caught up. do you have a page with list of contributors bychance?
[08:01] <dfarning> Well it has been an hour
[08:01] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: it needs updating :\
[08:01] <dfarning> enough to think about for one day?
[08:02] <LaserJock> probably
[08:02] <LaserJock> we need that mailing list :/
[08:02] <joejaxx> yeah :\
[08:02] <dfarning> I agree
[08:02] <gnomefreak> Ml fairly easy to get
[08:02] <LaserJock> I think most people interested are pretty involved with other things
[08:02] <dfarning> I'll follow up on the RT
[08:02] <gnomefreak> RT?
[08:02] <LaserJock> we should try to keep it fairly low-key
[08:03] <dfarning> request ticket to start a ML
[08:03] <LaserJock> gnomefreak: Request Ticket
[08:03] <gnomefreak> ah
[08:03] <dfarning> Thanks for all the good ideas
[08:04] <dfarning> I think I'll set another meeting in about two week to see where we are at
[08:04] <joejaxx> that sounds good
[08:04] <gnomefreak> that reminds me
[08:06] <pochu> LaserJock: still there?
[08:06] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:06] <pochu> hehe
[08:06] <pochu> LaserJock: do you plan to make a gnome version of Ichthux?
[08:07] <LaserJock> pochu: well, there was some thought of that
[08:07] <LaserJock> pochu: we've done a bit of work on making a Xfce version
[08:07] <LaserJock> Ichthux-lite sort of thing
[08:07] <pochu> hmm
[08:08] <pochu> and what about gnome? hehe
[08:08] <LaserJock> but there's really no reason why we couldn't other than willing people
[08:08] <LaserJock> Kubuntu is actually a bit easier to derivatize, IMO
[08:08] <pochu> LaserJock: ah, hehe
[08:08] <LaserJock> becuase of how the layering of configs go
[08:08] <pochu> LaserJock: maybe I can help a little
[08:09] <LaserJock> I'm sure we could work something out (I'm a Gnome guy myself)
[08:09] <pochu> but I'm still learning, so don't wait too much ;)
[08:09] <pochu> LaserJock: so am I :)
[08:09] <LaserJock> well, the other thing is that we're also a Debian-based project
[08:09] <LaserJock> having a few DDs involved
[08:10] <LaserJock> so Ichthux has gone from Knoppix-based -> Kubuntu-based -> in Ubuntu repos -> in Debian repos (in the guture)
[08:10] <LaserJock> *future
[08:10] <pochu> LaserJock: oh, I thought you were ubuntu based :)
[08:11] <LaserJock> well, right now it's kinda hard to say how it exactly goes
[08:11] <LaserJock> it's based off of Kubuntu but the packages are all in Universe
[08:11] <LaserJock> so it's even hard to call it a real derivative since it's developed alongside
[08:12] <pochu> I see
[08:12] <LaserJock> and then when many of the packages get pushed to Debian it'll get even weirder
[08:12] <LaserJock> since we'll actually be our own upstreams ;-)
[08:13] <pochu> hehe
[08:13] <pochu> that might be annoying :)
[08:13] <LaserJock> pochu: anyway, if you're interested there's #ichthux and #ichthux-devel
[08:14] <pochu> LaserJock: didn't know :)
[09:34] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[09:34] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 13 Mar 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 20:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 11:00: MOTU Council
[09:35] <BackwardsDown> hmm
[09:36] <BackwardsDown> @schedule Amsterdam
[09:36] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 13 Mar 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 20:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 11:00: MOTU Council
[10:56] <highvoltage> 3
[11:11] <sid> @schedule New_York
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 15:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 06:00: MOTU Council