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| highvoltage | \sh_away: do you also find this sexy? http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/misc/gates_hustler | 08:52 |
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| asac | @schedule | 12:06 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00: MOTU Council | 12:06 |
| asac | @schedule Berlin | 12:06 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 13 Mar 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 20:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 11:00: MOTU Council | 12:06 |
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| poningru | @schedule New_york | 12:35 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/New_York: 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 15:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 06:00: MOTU Council | 12:35 |
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| Hobbsee | @schedule sydney | 01:38 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 14 Mar 03:00: Forum Council | 14 Mar 07:00: Technical Board | 15 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 06:00: Audio Team | 16 Mar 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 21:00: MOTU Council | 01:38 |
| poningru | eek | 01:41 |
| jsgotangco | @schedule manila | 01:41 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Asia/Manila: 14 Mar 00:00: Forum Council | 14 Mar 04:00: Technical Board | 15 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 03:00: Audio Team | 16 Mar 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 18:00: MOTU Council | 01:41 |
| jsgotangco | beautiful | 01:41 |
| Mithrandir | Hobbsee: good thing you never sleep. | 01:42 |
| Hobbsee | Mithrandir: heh. i will be asleep for the FC and travelling during the TB. | 01:45 |
| Hobbsee | + edubuntu, + audio team. ubuntu dev and MOTU council would be the only two that i might get to | 01:46 |
| zul | @schedule montreal | 01:46 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Montreal: 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 15:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 06:00: MOTU Council | 01:46 |
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| MikeB- | morning | 04:15 |
| SD-Plissken | morning MikeB- | 04:15 |
| MikeB- | hope i'm not late, DST always confuses me:) | 04:16 |
| Vorian | MikeB-, 45 more minutes | 04:17 |
| SD-Plissken | Don't think your late. Should be starting soon.. | 04:17 |
| SD-Plissken | Vorian bet me to it.. | 04:17 |
| Vorian | SD-Plissken, :) | 04:17 |
| Vorian | we'll be lucky to get through the agenda today | 04:17 |
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| SD-Plissken | Well what ever is not finished today I guess will have to hold over for the next meeting. | 04:19 |
| === Vorian ads a quick item to the agenda | ||
| MikeB- | busy busy | 04:22 |
| Vorian | MikeB-, I added meeting times to the agenda | 04:23 |
| Vorian | if that's ok with you :) | 04:23 |
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| MikeB- | :) | 04:25 |
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| ubuntugeek | hello | 04:47 |
| Vorian | hi ubuntugeek | 04:48 |
| Vorian | quite the agenda today eh? | 04:49 |
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| ubuntugeek | yeah should be pretty quick :) | 04:50 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Forum Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00 UTC: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00 UTC: MOTU Council | ||
| Vorian | lol | 04:50 |
| ubuntugeek | everyone here yet? | 04:50 |
| === PriceChild looks at agenda | ||
| PriceChild | ubugtu's changed that early hasn't he | 04:51 |
| SD-Plissken | Who is mia? | 04:52 |
| SD-Plissken | *m.i.a* | 04:52 |
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| PriceChild | whoa its a forumsmatthew :) | 04:52 |
| ubuntugeek | vorian whenever you are ready lead the way | 04:52 |
| Vorian | where did jdong go? | 04:52 |
| Vorian | ok | 04:53 |
| apokryphos | PriceChild: always 10 minutes before the beginning | 04:53 |
| Vorian | ubuntugeek, do you want to wait till 16:00? | 04:54 |
| PriceChild | Hehe ok :) | 04:54 |
| ubuntugeek | sure | 04:54 |
| Vorian | jdong was just on a minute ago .... | 04:54 |
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| MikeB- | ack, starting early, was going to run and get a soda | 04:55 |
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| forumsmatthew | either way is fine for me...I'm here now | 04:56 |
| Vorian | ok then | 04:56 |
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| Vorian | Welcome to the 3rd Forum Council meeting! | 04:56 |
| forumsmatthew | is Kiwi coming? | 04:57 |
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| Vorian | I dont know forumsmatthew. I would assume he is asleep right now :) | 04:58 |
| PriceChild | pathetic :P | 04:58 |
| PriceChild | Hey GazzaK :) | 04:58 |
| Vorian | ubuntugeek, shall we start with the jail? | 04:58 |
| GazzaK | hey PriceChild | 04:58 |
| Vorian | as henrik is not here atm | 04:59 |
| ubuntugeek | sure | 04:59 |
| Vorian | for refernce | 04:59 |
| Vorian | for reference* | 04:59 |
| Vorian | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda | 04:59 |
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| ubuntugeek | The jail agenda item was to set a final policy on a change we made to the jail about 5 months ago. | 05:00 |
| Vorian | The jail | 05:00 |
| Vorian | Should we split off the jail into two areas. One for spam (no reads) and one for jailing user posts and allow all users to view. Or should we leave it the way it is, one category and threads are viewable to the OP. | 05:00 |
| === Vorian was quoting u-g :) | ||
| forumsmatthew | I'm not ofnd of that idea | 05:01 |
| forumsmatthew | it would be a lot of extra work...all that sorting | 05:01 |
| forumsmatthew | remembering where to put stuff | 05:01 |
| ubuntugeek | previous to the jail change 5 months ago it was open for everyone to see, 99% of the items in the jail are spam | 05:01 |
| ubuntugeek | 1% are users posts | 05:01 |
| forumsmatthew | staff have an easier time remembering now | 05:01 |
| ubuntugeek | post the change we allow only the original thread started to view the thread created | 05:01 |
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| ubuntugeek | I am in favor of leaving it the way it is and amending the guidelines to reflect the change | 05:02 |
| ubuntugeek | that was implemented 5 months ago | 05:02 |
| Vorian | thats a good idea | 05:02 |
| forumsmatthew | I read one user's comment on the issue | 05:02 |
| forumsmatthew | "I think that the elegant solution would be to keep the current system and permit people to access the jail upon request. " | 05:02 |
| MikeB- | that is fine with me | 05:02 |
| forumsmatthew | is that even possible? | 05:02 |
| forumsmatthew | otherwise, I like it how it is | 05:02 |
| Vorian | other comments about the jail? anyone? | 05:04 |
| SD-Plissken | I like it how it is. | 05:04 |
| ubuntugeek | forumsmatthew: not really easy to implement | 05:04 |
| forumsmatthew | ubuntugeek, fair enough. | 05:04 |
| bapoumba | how it is +1 | 05:04 |
| forumsmatthew | I vote to keep it how it is and amend the guidelines | 05:04 |
| ubuntugeek | we would have to put that user in another usergroup | 05:04 |
| MikeB- | +1 | 05:04 |
| ubuntugeek | +1 | 05:04 |
| === PriceChild got d/c and needs to read everything :( | ||
| forumsmatthew | +1 | 05:04 |
| Vorian | great! | 05:04 |
| ubuntugeek | Pricechild: we decided to leave the jail the way it is and amend the guidlines | 05:04 |
| Vorian | ok Hardware team | 05:05 |
| Vorian | Hardware Team | 05:05 |
| Vorian | Lord Illian is currently busy with school etc and asked if we could elect a interm team leader for that team. Lets decide how to go about doing that. | 05:05 |
| ubuntugeek | Who wants to amend the guidelines? any takers? | 05:05 |
| forumsmatthew | I'll amend the guidelines | 05:05 |
| SD-Plissken | Interm leader Vorian you have to be kidding? | 05:05 |
| ubuntugeek | ok thanks matthew | 05:05 |
| forumsmatthew | does LordIllidan have team members het? | 05:05 |
| forumsmatthew | *yet | 05:05 |
| PriceChild | Ok cool, btw my opinion is that the jail shouldn't have been closed due to it being so hidden 8-) | 05:06 |
| Vorian | SD-Plissken, I'm just a humble secretary relaying the agenda :) | 05:06 |
| ubuntugeek | there are 12 users in the hardware team | 05:06 |
| forumsmatthew | I would recommend that _he_ be responsible for finding a member of his team to cover for him | 05:06 |
| forumsmatthew | it's a sign of leadership | 05:06 |
| ubuntugeek | I really think we need to either a) find a new team leader who has time or b) have two team leaders | 05:06 |
| bapoumba | no posts in the forums section | 05:07 |
| === PriceChild points out randomly that there is #ubuntuforums-beginners (very active in evenings) & #ubuntuforums-unanswered (not very active) | ||
| SD-Plissken | Vorian really if theres no one on the hardware team yet then how can an in-trim leader be chosen? | 05:07 |
| ubuntugeek | Pricechild: re the jail, the reason it was closed is so the search engines do not index the spam | 05:07 |
| MikeB- | The problem is the hardware team had little time to get going before this | 05:07 |
| PriceChild | ubuntugeek, ah search engines is a good point, never thought about that :) | 05:07 |
| forumsmatthew | MikeB-, good point...it's like starting over, isn't it? | 05:08 |
| Vorian | SD-Plissken, ask ubuntugeek he added it to the agenda. | 05:08 |
| === PriceChild is happy | ||
| MikeB- | forumsmatthew: yes | 05:08 |
| Vorian | I would suggest apjone as he was a finalist for the hardware team | 05:08 |
| ubuntugeek | Possibly we should repost a request for hardware team leaders | 05:08 |
| SD-Plissken | MikeB then the leader in charge should have made a thread asking for help. | 05:09 |
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| forumsmatthew | ubuntugeek, I think that sounds better than finding an interim leader...just start fresh | 05:09 |
| ubuntugeek | forumsmatthew: right, i agree | 05:09 |
| SD-Plissken | make sure they have the time.. | 05:09 |
| MikeB- | forumsmatthew: +1 | 05:10 |
| forumsmatthew | SD-Plissken, and perhaps that the candidate shows up at the meeting when he's chosen | 05:10 |
| Vorian | I think that is a great idea | 05:10 |
| SD-Plissken | Seems fair to me forumsmatthew. | 05:10 |
| ubuntugeek | Sounds good, +1 i | 05:10 |
| ubuntugeek | 'll repost about the position | 05:10 |
| forumsmatthew | +1, just to make it official | 05:10 |
| Vorian | yay | 05:11 |
| ubuntugeek | +1 | 05:11 |
| === Vorian pokes jdong | ||
| === jdong didn't catch what the decision was :) | ||
| jdong | but I'm sure I'd agree with it | 05:11 |
| ubuntugeek | to elect a new hardware team leader | 05:11 |
| ubuntugeek | lord Illian is pretty much going to be out until june | 05:12 |
| jdong | like a permanently new one? | 05:12 |
| jdong | what are we to do with Lord Illian when he gets back? | 05:12 |
| jdong | I'd like to find some position for him.... | 05:12 |
| forumsmatthew | jdong, since nothing has happened with the current one, I will say yes...a new one to replace him | 05:12 |
| forumsmatthew | I like Lord Illidan, he just didn't have time to do this | 05:12 |
| ubuntugeek | agreed | 05:12 |
| jdong | if he comes back June, would we be OK with finding something for him? | 05:13 |
| SD-Plissken | He could be co chair on the same team. | 05:13 |
| MikeB- | maybe he can step in as a co-leader in June. We will know better by then what the hardware team will be like | 05:13 |
| ubuntugeek | jdong: I don't see why not, possibly the new team leader will worth along with him | 05:14 |
| jdong | yeah, ok | 05:14 |
| jdong | I'll +1 then :) | 05:14 |
| Vorian | great! | 05:14 |
| Vorian | anything else on hardware? | 05:14 |
| ubuntugeek | not from me | 05:14 |
| forumsmatthew | I'm in favor of new hardware for everyone...Pricey is buying, I think | 05:14 |
| forumsmatthew | :) | 05:15 |
| Vorian | ty PriceChild :) | 05:15 |
| Vorian | ISO testing | 05:15 |
| Vorian | Can we cover that without Henrik? | 05:15 |
| PriceChild | Hehe :) | 05:15 |
| MikeB- | forumsmatthew: I need a new motherboad and CPU:) woot | 05:15 |
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| PriceChild | @lart forumsmatthew | 05:15 |
| ubuntugeek | It seemed like he just wanted us to promote it | 05:15 |
| ubuntugeek | I put up the announcement this morning | 05:15 |
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| Vorian | I noticed that :P | 05:15 |
| forumsmatthew | I hearby promote the project: everyone who can, participate! | 05:15 |
| Vorian | no brainer really eh? | 05:16 |
| jdong | yay go hardware! | 05:16 |
| Vorian | FC meeting times? | 05:16 |
| Vorian | Should we vary our meeting times to accommodate all members of the Forum Council and Forum Members? | 05:16 |
| ubuntugeek | One thing I was just thinking is possibly a testing team for henrik's project | 05:16 |
| Vorian | ubuntugeek, thats a great idea! | 05:17 |
| ubuntugeek | I'll run it past henrik, if no one else has any reservations. | 05:17 |
| forumsmatthew | ubuntugeek, that's not a bad idea...+1 | 05:17 |
| jdong | yeah, I'm all up for it | 05:17 |
| bapoumba | +1 | 05:17 |
| MikeB- | ubuntugeek: +1 | 05:17 |
| PriceChild | ubuntugeek, cd testing team? or general feisty? | 05:17 |
| ubuntugeek | that way he can get a core group of testers | 05:18 |
| ubuntugeek | testing team for cd images | 05:18 |
| PriceChild | k | 05:18 |
| SD-Plissken | u-g that would require user with many different platforms from ppc i386 64bit as well as different pci cards video cards other devices. | 05:18 |
| === PriceChild rubs eyes and will read more carefully next time | ||
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| === Vorian hands PriceChild some glasses | ||
| ubuntugeek | sd: well not really I dont see why someone couldnt join who was just going to test i386 | 05:19 |
| jdong | yeah, I don't think we should have affirmative action testing or anything | 05:19 |
| ubuntugeek | its no different then how it is now, except there is a defined list of participants dedicated to helping his project | 05:19 |
| jdong | it's far from all i386's are created equal. | 05:19 |
| PriceChild | I think the purpose of the testing team would be more to help assist other users get started... not do all the testing themselves | 05:20 |
| Vorian | he explains his testing very well in this announcement http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=383067 | 05:20 |
| PriceChild | not that they wouldn't test themselves | 05:20 |
| jdong | also, the plain having a title can be a major motivation to some people | 05:20 |
| SD-Plissken | Don't get me wrong I'm not against it. I'm simply saying that for it to beneficial users would have to bug test beyond just the simple install. | 05:20 |
| forumsmatthew | I propose ubuntugeek contacts henrik | 05:20 |
| forumsmatthew | (just moving us on) | 05:21 |
| jdong | SD-Plissken: this would be a good first step towards henrik getting a tem of serious testers | 05:21 |
| ubuntugeek | sd: henrik, details what he wants/needs here http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=383067 very well. | 05:21 |
| jdong | s/serious/dedicated/ | 05:21 |
| ubuntugeek | next? | 05:22 |
| forumsmatthew | meeting time? | 05:22 |
| jdong | meeting time... | 05:22 |
| MikeB- | I'm free other than Tuesday after 1800 UTC | 05:22 |
| forumsmatthew | I'm very flexible | 05:23 |
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| ubuntugeek | I am flexible as well | 05:23 |
| === jdong exports public google calendar | ||
| forumsmatthew | I prefer Tues, Wed or Thurs | 05:23 |
| MikeB- | before 1500 UTC any day is doable, but a pain | 05:23 |
| bapoumba | (I cannot get to IRC from work) | 05:23 |
| Vorian | at the last meeting, someone suggested Sunday evening (US) | 05:23 |
| jdong | http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/of4mkbspt8b9puvs651vp79nqk%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics | 05:23 |
| jdong | iCal | 05:23 |
| jdong | ical should handle timezones.... | 05:24 |
| jdong | my W/F are pretty good.... | 05:24 |
| jdong | the whole weekend too | 05:24 |
| ubuntugeek | Wednesdays are fine for me | 05:24 |
| MikeB- | wednesdays work for me | 05:25 |
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| forumsmatthew | want to try 2nd Wed of April at 1800 UTC? | 05:25 |
| Vorian | later on wednesday so kiwi can make it? | 05:25 |
| forumsmatthew | what is a good time for him? | 05:25 |
| jdong | 18:00UTC won't work for me... | 05:25 |
| PriceChild | well it'd be much better for him a few hours on won't it? | 05:26 |
| jdong | I got a class then | 05:26 |
| Vorian | @schedule sidney | 05:26 |
| jdong | 19:00/20:00 would be fine | 05:26 |
| PriceChild | otherwise kiwi'd need to get up at 6am :s | 05:26 |
| forumsmatthew | 20:00UTC would work for me | 05:26 |
| bapoumba | fine for me | 05:27 |
| ubuntugeek | 20:00 UTC is fine for me on wednesdays | 05:27 |
| Vorian | cool | 05:27 |
| MikeB- | that is fine for me | 05:27 |
| Vorian | so the second wednesday of april then? | 05:27 |
| Vorian | (april 11th) | 05:27 |
| ubuntugeek | jdong? | 05:27 |
| forumsmatthew | let's try it and see how it works... +1 | 05:27 |
| jdong | ubuntugeek: +1 | 05:27 |
| MikeB- | +1 | 05:27 |
| bapoumba | +1 | 05:27 |
| ubuntugeek | +1 | 05:28 |
| ubuntugeek | vorian: can you contact whoever does the schedule and get it changed for us? | 05:28 |
| Vorian | yep | 05:28 |
| SD-Plissken | sounds cool to me. | 05:28 |
| ubuntugeek | for the second wednesday of each month at 20:00utc | 05:28 |
| ubuntugeek | great | 05:28 |
| Vorian | ubuntugeek, message sent :) | 05:29 |
| ubuntugeek | lovely, i am going to add a last minute item to the agenda | 05:29 |
| ubuntugeek | if we dont get to it today next time is fine | 05:30 |
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| Vorian | ubuntugeek, we have and hour and a half left with only 1 item remaining | 05:31 |
| forumsmatthew | I'm hoping we can get to it... | 05:31 |
| forumsmatthew | :0 | 05:31 |
| forumsmatthew | :) | 05:31 |
| forumsmatthew | forgot the shift key... | 05:31 |
| ubuntugeek | ok lets move on :) | 05:31 |
| Vorian | Next item is | 05:32 |
| Vorian | Ubuntu Forums Staff Hiring Procedure | 05:32 |
| Vorian | MikeB-, want to start this one off? | 05:32 |
| MikeB- | first off I think the current procedure is fine, but I thought it would be god idea to formalize it | 05:33 |
| SD-Plissken | formalize it?? | 05:33 |
| jdong | SD-Plissken: it's right now "it happens when it happens", no formal guidelines | 05:33 |
| MikeB- | and also diverse the mentions of selecting staff and get more community feeedback | 05:33 |
| jdong | SD-Plissken: every other Ubuntu process has a formal writeup of how it's done.... | 05:33 |
| SD-Plissken | I see.. | 05:34 |
| ubuntugeek | Also remember when the FC governance negociations were taking place this is something i did not want to change. | 05:34 |
| ubuntugeek | negotiations* | 05:34 |
| forumsmatthew | I propose this (it's basically what we are doing...): take suggestions from staff, discuss them among the admins, hire those that look the best to us, or others that we find on own | 05:34 |
| PriceChild | Well its not something we have to change, we just have to explain how it happens :) | 05:34 |
| jdong | I don't feel anything against our hiring procedures, but I think it's better if we have it down on paper | 05:34 |
| jdong | even if it just describes how it's done now | 05:35 |
| PriceChild | "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" | 05:35 |
| forumsmatthew | I can write it up so it sounds a little better | 05:35 |
| ubuntugeek | jdong: having it down on paper is fine | 05:35 |
| Vorian | PriceChild, good point. | 05:35 |
| MikeB- | I think how is done is fine | 05:35 |
| SD-Plissken | forumsmatthew,and just how well are the staff suggestions taken in to account when the final choice is made? | 05:35 |
| forumsmatthew | SD-Plissken, we look at those suggested and sincerely consider them | 05:36 |
| ubuntugeek | We should take the staff suggestions and discuss it at a FC meeting to determine the final applicants | 05:36 |
| ubuntugeek | We always take the staff opinions into consideration | 05:36 |
| Vorian | couldn't the FC just use the mailing list to make these decisions? | 05:37 |
| MikeB- | lets break this up into parts | 05:37 |
| PriceChild | I don't think any more than "the FC members will take current staff opinions into consideration" is needed. | 05:38 |
| SD-Plissken | ubuntugeek I'm not saying you guys don't,however. you all have the final say on these things,and it would be a shame to see someone added to this team only to find out they don't work well with those on staff. | 05:38 |
| PriceChild | (for that part) | 05:38 |
| jdong | SD-Plissken: if a staff member voices the slightest objection, we take that really seriously | 05:38 |
| SD-Plissken | jdong I guess.. | 05:39 |
| jdong | I would go as far to say that inhibits my approval of the new candidate. | 05:39 |
| forumsmatthew | SD-Plissken, is there some specific incident you are recalling where staff input was not considered? | 05:40 |
| forumsmatthew | and it caused problems among the current staff? | 05:40 |
| SD-Plissken | no I'm not recalling any problems current that have not been handle with respect. however. things have changed since the FC which has not really been tested. | 05:41 |
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| forumsmatthew | Okay. If there are no further comments on that, I propose we move on. | 05:42 |
| forumsmatthew | I can write up the current process, send it to the admins on the mailing list for approval, and then we can get it posted. | 05:42 |
| Vorian | last item | 05:42 |
| Vorian | duplicate forum accounts | 05:42 |
| Vorian | How shall we deal with users who create duplicate accounts after requestion their account be deleted or they are banned. | 05:43 |
| ubuntugeek | forumsmatthew: +1 sounds good | 05:43 |
| ubuntugeek | mikeb: you ok with that? since it was your item | 05:43 |
| jdong | +1 | 05:43 |
| MikeB- | ubuntugeek: it is fine | 05:44 |
| ubuntugeek | k | 05:44 |
| jdong | Vorian: I'd say merge or delete on first offense, depending on how many posts the dupe has. | 05:45 |
| MikeB- | ubuntugeek: +1, I think improvement could be made but I dod not want to go againist previous agreements | 05:45 |
| jdong | Vorian: and give a final warning | 05:45 |
| jdong | Vorian: both accounts are disabled on second offense | 05:45 |
| PriceChild | I think we should have much harsher measures when the create a new account with existing infractions. | 05:45 |
| PriceChild | *they | 05:46 |
| ubuntugeek | mikeb: what kinda of improvements? might as well discuss them :) | 05:46 |
| MikeB- | I think we should not delete account at all, except for cases of hassassment | 05:46 |
| forumsmatthew | MikeB-, +1 no account deletion | 05:46 |
| forumsmatthew | we could remove personal data...email addresses, etc | 05:46 |
| Vorian | If they request that their account be deleted, there should be some amount of time before they can create a new one. | 05:46 |
| forumsmatthew | but leave the account intact | 05:46 |
| PriceChild | e.g. Goat Spirit, Ben Sprinkle etc. | 05:47 |
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| jdong_ | ow, network kicked me.... | 05:47 |
| jdong_ | I'm gonna head to class and re-join the meeting from there | 05:47 |
| ubuntugeek | I agree on the no account deletion | 05:47 |
| jdong_ | back in 10m | 05:47 |
| ubuntugeek | because it makes all that users posts goto "unknown" and its hard to track issues | 05:47 |
| forumsmatthew | let's all hide before he comes back... ;) | 05:47 |
| MikeB- | lol | 05:48 |
| forumsmatthew | ubuntugeek, that's exactly what I was thinking | 05:48 |
| forumsmatthew | I still wish certain accounts existed for just that reason | 05:48 |
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| MikeB- | ubuntugeek: it can wait for comment (staff hiring) | 05:48 |
| ubuntugeek | OK, so no account deletion period. I think if the user wants his account removed. We can change the password and set the email to something else /dev/null or something | 05:49 |
| forumsmatthew | If their personal data, like the email address used for signing up, were removed I think that would count as us doing what is necessary if a user wants to leave | 05:49 |
| ubuntugeek | Some of these people we really need to keep an archive of. | 05:49 |
| forumsmatthew | ubuntugeek, you typed faster... | 05:49 |
| MikeB- | so no account deletion, first dup account warning/infraction, second account dup ban | 05:49 |
| ubuntugeek | Mikeb: +1 sounds perfect | 05:49 |
| forumsmatthew | MikeB-, +1 | 05:49 |
| MikeB- | third account dup, my foot up their %#%@ | 05:50 |
| forumsmatthew | I can add that in the Forums CoC when I add the stuff about the jail | 05:50 |
| SD-Plissken | MikeB thats not very ubuntu.. lol | 05:50 |
| bapoumba | MikeB-, do not circimvent the filters ^^ | 05:50 |
| forumsmatthew | bapoumba, lol!!!!!!!!!1 | 05:51 |
| bapoumba | *circumvent | 05:51 |
| MikeB- | sorry the DST bugs have gotten to me:) | 05:51 |
| bapoumba | ;-D | 05:51 |
| ubuntugeek | we should add this to the guidelines as well | 05:52 |
| forumsmatthew | I'll do it when I add the "jail" stuff | 05:52 |
| ubuntugeek | sounds good | 05:53 |
| Vorian | any other business? | 05:53 |
| ubuntugeek | I would like to formalize a process for 3rd party sections and create a request forum like the loco's have. any objections? | 05:54 |
| forumsmatthew | I think that would be helpful | 05:54 |
| MikeB- | ubuntusounds fine | 05:54 |
| SD-Plissken | I can hear the mythtv folks beating a path to that door.. lol | 05:55 |
| forumsmatthew | Only if they are devs. :) | 05:55 |
| SD-Plissken | right!!! | 05:55 |
| ubuntugeek | because right now i just get a PM and it ends up going back and forth for a month before i get all teh info | 05:55 |
| PriceChild | Could we also discuss a desktop-effects section if no-one has to go? | 05:56 |
| SD-Plissken | the request method seems reasonable to me ubuntugeek. | 05:56 |
| SD-Plissken | Pricechild you going to run it? | 05:56 |
| PriceChild | Does it really have to be "run"? :) | 05:57 |
| Vorian | desktop-effects is a good idea | 05:57 |
| ubuntugeek | would this be for discussing like beryl and such? | 05:58 |
| PriceChild | beryl, compiz, kiba-dock etc. | 05:58 |
| SD-Plissken | Well I would think someone would have to be available to the help the endless users with wah wah my beryl broke my x wont start ect. | 05:58 |
| forumsmatthew | I propose we change jdong's title in the forums to something more amusing than "Ultimate Coffee Grinder" since he's not here | 05:58 |
| forumsmatthew | sorry, offtopic | 05:58 |
| Vorian | SD-Plissken, at least there would be a place for those posts :) | 05:58 |
| PriceChild | SD-Plissken, We get hundreds of downloads of beryl every day from our ubuntu repos. There are lots of pleas for help in the forums, and there are lots of replies. I don't think there is a lack of users ready to help. | 05:59 |
| PriceChild | s/hundreds/thousands/ | 05:59 |
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| forumsmatthew | I'm okay with making desktop-effects | 05:59 |
| PriceChild | Compositing is only going to become a bigger "feature" with time... and I think we should embrace it. | 05:59 |
| PriceChild | Especially with desktop-effects being installed by default in feisty | 06:00 |
| MikeB- | Is it ok if a leave a little early, got some problems at my office that need my attention :) | 06:01 |
| SD-Plissken | i'm ok with it as well as long as there help available to those who post there. | 06:01 |
| forumsmatthew | see you later, MikeB-. I think we're winding up | 06:01 |
| ubuntugeek | +1 i'll make it today | 06:01 |
| Vorian | SD-Plissken, I'm willing to help :) | 06:01 |
| ubuntugeek | price send me a PM with a description of it | 06:01 |
| PriceChild | description? | 06:01 |
| MikeB- | later all:) | 06:01 |
| Vorian | bye MikeB- | 06:01 |
| ubuntugeek | yeah | 06:02 |
| PriceChild | ah... the short sentence under the title? | 06:02 |
| ubuntugeek | yep | 06:02 |
| PriceChild | will do :) | 06:02 |
| ubuntugeek | cool | 06:02 |
| ubuntugeek | great thanks everyone for another good meeting | 06:02 |
| SD-Plissken | Vorian I'm sure mostly all of us are willing to help though it would mean having to get sorted with the workings of beryl,and compiz. | 06:02 |
| forumsmatthew | thanks, everyone, for participating! | 06:03 |
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| SD-Plissken | your welcome... | 06:03 |
| ubuntugeek | one thing i found is alot of times when a forum category gets popular it runs itself | 06:04 |
| forumsmatthew | and you get people with a strong interest. Sometimes we find good mods that way | 06:05 |
| ubuntugeek | yep | 06:05 |
| ubuntugeek | ok gotta get going guys.. thanks again | 06:05 |
| forumsmatthew | bye, ubuntugeek | 06:05 |
| forumsmatthew | I'm leaving as well | 06:06 |
| Vorian | bye ubuntugeek | 06:06 |
| bapoumba | bye | 06:06 |
| Vorian | see ya forumsmatthew | 06:06 |
| PriceChild | :) | 06:06 |
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| PriceChild | jdong, too late ;) | 06:06 |
| SD-Plissken | latter | 06:06 |
| Vorian | wb jdong | 06:06 |
| jdong | bleh :) | 06:06 |
| Vorian | we decided to shut down the forums | 06:06 |
| jdong | well A for effort | 06:06 |
| jdong | Vorian: I was gonna propose that | 06:06 |
| Vorian | lol | 06:06 |
| jdong | Vorian: and move our operations to #ubuntuforums | 06:06 |
| Vorian | thats the tiket :P | 06:07 |
| SD-Plissken | to quote jdong: thats what she said.. lol | 06:07 |
| PriceChild | hehe | 06:07 |
| jdong | lol | 06:07 |
| Vorian | lol | 06:07 |
| jdong | SD-Plissken: you learn fast :D | 06:08 |
| SD-Plissken | I gues so.. | 06:08 |
| SD-Plissken | *guess* | 06:08 |
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| aamachu | hi | 06:55 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00 UTC: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00 UTC: MOTU Council | 17 Mar 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | ||
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| nixternal | @schedule chicago | 07:40 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Chicago: 13 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 14:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 05:00: MOTU Council | 17 Mar 10:00: Xubuntu | 07:40 |
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| mark007 | @schedule newyork | 08:05 |
| mark007 | @schedule new york | 08:06 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/New_York: 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 15:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 06:00: MOTU Council | 17 Mar 11:00: Xubuntu | 08:06 |
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| AlexC_ | morning? | 08:45 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00 UTC: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00 UTC: MOTU Council | 17 Mar 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | ||
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| pitti | hi | 08:55 |
| sistpoty | hi | 08:55 |
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| Keybuk | mdz: ping | 09:03 |
| mdz | Keybuk: hi | 09:03 |
| mdz | I don't think we have anything on the agenda | 09:04 |
| Keybuk | would you like to drive? :p | 09:04 |
| Keybuk | Nominations; but without sabdfl, I don't think there's anything we can do there? | 09:04 |
| mdz | sabdfl said he would be by | 09:04 |
| mdz | meanwhile, I posted a proposal to t-b that we change ubuntu-core-dev to a restricted team rather than a moderated team | 09:04 |
| Keybuk | how would people announce their intention to become core? | 09:05 |
| mdz | with the rationale that a great majority of the people trying to join are just having fun with launchpad rather than being serious applicants | 09:05 |
| mdz | all of the legitimate ones know that the tech board are the folks to talk with, and I would update the wiki docs as well | 09:05 |
| mdz | prospective core developers are expected to already know things like the fact that the tech board approves new core developers :-) | 09:06 |
| mdz | sabdfl agreed on t-b; I'm interested in any thoughts from you or mjg59 | 09:06 |
| Keybuk | my only thought is that we'd lose the nice "Proposed Members" list, sorted by date | 09:06 |
| Keybuk | though otoh, it would force people to actually turn up :p | 09:06 |
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| mdz | to be honest, I expect we'll want to start doing more of the process by email, assuming that works well for the MOTU council | 09:07 |
| Keybuk | *nods* | 09:07 |
| mdz | so there will be more communication leading up to the meeting | 09:07 |
| Keybuk | it worked for asac | 09:07 |
| mdz | and less administrative hassle | 09:07 |
| Keybuk | I certainly wouldn't say no :p | 09:08 |
| Keybuk | (to less administrivia) | 09:08 |
| mdz | I like the idea of actually talking live to candidates, though we would supplement it with more email communications, and have the option of bypassing the meeting for fast-tracking | 09:08 |
| mdz | or for other special cases where meeting attendance might be problematic | 09:08 |
| Keybuk | agree | 09:09 |
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| mdz | <sabdfl> mdz: what's the meeting schedule this eve? i will grab a quick bite then be available | 09:12 |
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| Keybuk | "Mark, meet Google Calendar, I have a feeling you two may become good friends" <g> | 09:13 |
| mdz | I'll be around for a while if he turns up, but will be on the phone | 09:14 |
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| tepsipakki | so, there will be no meeting? | 09:56 |
| ajmitch | not if there was nothing to talk about | 09:57 |
| tepsipakki | well, nominations.. | 09:57 |
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| ajmitch | are they announced or decided yet? | 09:58 |
| tepsipakki | I meant core-dev ;) | 09:59 |
| ajmitch | sorry, I thought you meant tb nominations | 09:59 |
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| daviey | @schedule london | 10:11 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/London: Current meeting: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00: MOTU Council | 17 Mar 15:00: Xubuntu | 10:11 |
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| toma | @schedule amsterdam | 10:16 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Technical Board | 14 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 20:00: Audio Team | 15 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 11:00: MOTU Council | 17 Mar 16:00: Xubuntu | 10:16 |
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| sabdfl | evening all | 10:17 |
| sistpoty | hi sabdfl | 10:17 |
| juliux | hi sabdfl | 10:18 |
| ajmitch | hello sabdfl | 10:19 |
| toma | Is the TB meeting already over? | 10:20 |
| sabdfl | i don't think there was much on the agenda | 10:21 |
| sabdfl | i got here late, too | 10:21 |
| tepsipakki | well, I was here as a core-dev nominee, but it can wait | 10:23 |
| toma | i was planning on lurking, so I can wait too ;-) | 10:24 |
| StevenK | As was I, and I'm happy to wait, too | 10:24 |
| ajmitch | seems that the meeting started about 90 minutes ago | 10:26 |
| tepsipakki | heh | 10:26 |
| ajmitch | or there's just timezone confusion again :) | 10:26 |
| toma | yep | 10:27 |
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| toma | we can do an alternative meeting with this small group... | 10:27 |
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| sabdfl | mdz, want to deal with -core-dev candidates? | 10:55 |
| mdz | sabdfl: we didn't have any, nor anything else on the agenda except the ubuntu-core-dev LP change (which you and Scott ack'd, so I went ahead with it) | 10:56 |
| StevenK | There was tepsipakki and I. | 10:56 |
| StevenK | tepsipakki seems to have disappeared, though. | 10:56 |
| sabdfl | StevenK: LP url? | 10:57 |
| StevenK | launchpad.net/~stevenk | 10:58 |
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| sabdfl | StevenK: what areas of the free software stack are you most interested in? | 11:01 |
| StevenK | I'm mostly a dabbler, so I'll touch anything, but I'm interesting in packaging, web frameworks and well, most things. | 11:03 |
| StevenK | Sorry if I'm babbling. :-) | 11:03 |
| sabdfl | np | 11:03 |
| sabdfl | i see you've touched quite a diversity of packages as part of motu | 11:03 |
| mdz | StevenK: I didn't see either of you here until an hour after the meeting was scheduled; was there confusion over the time? | 11:03 |
| sabdfl | timezones are all over the show this week | 11:03 |
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| StevenK | mdz: No, I was trying to get here for 7am local, and didn't quite make it. | 11:03 |
| sabdfl | StevenK: what impressions do you have of MOTU processes? | 11:04 |
| sabdfl | StevenK: is there a focus for what you want to do in main? | 11:04 |
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| StevenK | I'm quite happy with the MOTU processes. I haven't seen much of the MOTU Council of course, but the initial indications look promising. | 11:04 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: pong | 11:04 |
| StevenK | My main focus for wanting to help with main is to provide some man-power to helping out with bug fixes and (at the start of a new cycle) merges. Sponsoring stuff in that looks sane also springs to mind. | 11:05 |
| sabdfl | ok, how long have you been a DD? | 11:06 |
| StevenK | Since 2001 | 11:06 |
| StevenK | Ummm. July or something | 11:06 |
| sabdfl | ok, +1 from me, i like the diversity of the things you've done in both ubuntu and debian | 11:07 |
| daviey | What does DD stand for? | 11:07 |
| StevenK | Debian Developer | 11:07 |
| daviey | ah | 11:07 |
| daviey | ty | 11:08 |
| StevenK | As opposed to a cup size. | 11:08 |
| === StevenK ducks. | ||
| sabdfl | or, for that matter, a disk image copier ;-) | 11:08 |
| daviey | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix) - confused me | 11:08 |
| sabdfl | mdz will ack or comment in due course | 11:08 |
| StevenK | Ahh, I keep forgetting about dd(1) | 11:08 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: do you have a few sentences of introduction? | 11:09 |
| mdz | StevenK: what do you expect to be different about your participation as a core developer rather than a motu? | 11:09 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: a sec | 11:09 |
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| StevenK | mdz: Being able to help out more, without having to pay attention to where in the archive something lives. That is not to say that I'll stop paying attention to detail, though. | 11:10 |
| === sistpoty cheers for StevenK, now that he can't cheer for motu applications any longer | ||
| sistpoty | applicants even | 11:10 |
| mdz | StevenK: one of the most important differences is that the impact of your work on users and other developers is much greater | 11:10 |
| StevenK | sistpoty: :-) | 11:10 |
| tepsipakki | oh, I've forgot to update my wiki | 11:10 |
| mdz | StevenK: and for that reason, it's important that core developers be very well informed about the policies and procedures which apply to main | 11:11 |
| StevenK | mdz: Yes, of course. I have always been very careful with, for example, motu-sru | 11:11 |
| StevenK | mdz: Certainly. At this point I wouldn't upload anything to main without talking to Mithrandir, being this close to beta. | 11:11 |
| mdz | StevenK: what criteria would you consider when evaluating whether a particular issue justified an SRU in main, and if you decided it was, how would you proceed? | 11:12 |
| StevenK | mdz: I have already filed and dealt with an SRU in main. | 11:12 |
| mdz | StevenK: can you answer the question anyway? | 11:12 |
| StevenK | mdz: If the problem is a serious regression from a previous release, can't be worked around, and is able to patched easily, I would subscribe ubuntu-sru to the bug, and look at creating a debdiff. | 11:13 |
| StevenK | mdz: I was, as you can see, it took a sec to type. | 11:13 |
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| mdz | StevenK: it's a good idea to get an ack from the SRU team before spending time creating the fix, just in case they disagree on the nature of the issue, but yes, thanks | 11:15 |
| === StevenK nods. | ||
| mdz | StevenK: in addition to the routine work you mentioned earlier, do you have any interest in starting new feature projects? | 11:16 |
| StevenK | mdz: Indeed. The about-ubuntu spec in launchpad has my fingerprint all over it. | 11:16 |
| StevenK | Er, fingerprints | 11:16 |
| sabdfl | i also type with one finger, no shame there | 11:17 |
| StevenK | I'm not certain if mpt has thrown the spec at me yet, though. | 11:17 |
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| === StevenK tends to be a three finger typist. | ||
| mdz | StevenK: ok, thanks for your time and contributions | 11:18 |
| mdz | +1 from me as well | 11:18 |
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| sabdfl | ok, i'll mail the transcript to keybuk and mjg59 and ask them to ack, first to do so can update LP directly | 11:19 |
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| sabdfl | StevenK: they may ping you to chat on IRC, or JFDI | 11:19 |
| mdz | StevenK: since we're doing this outside of a scheduled meeting, I'd like to run your application by the TB mailing list briefly before a final decision | 11:20 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: you're up! | 11:20 |
| StevenK | sabdfl: Aye, so noted. | 11:20 |
| sabdfl | https://beta.launchpad.net/~tepsipakki/+packages | 11:20 |
| StevenK | mdz: Sure | 11:20 |
| mdz | StevenK: (since they didn't have the opportunity to speak with you) | 11:20 |
| tepsipakki | Hi, my name is Timo Aaltonen, and I'm the one doing X lately: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimoAaltonen | 11:20 |
| mdz | sabdfl: perhaps Ubugtu should translate beta URLs into non-beta | 11:20 |
| tepsipakki | ..as can be seen from the packages page | 11:20 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: I know you've been working through a few sponsors | 11:21 |
| sabdfl | mdz: beta should nicely redirect non-beta users to the non-beta site shortly | 11:21 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: are any of them here to give feedback on your work? | 11:21 |
| mdz | sabdfl: oh, that's even better I guess | 11:21 |
| tepsipakki | mdz: and I've yet to reply to your latest post :) | 11:21 |
| tepsipakki | yes, seb128 and kylem seem to be here? | 11:21 |
| mdz | it's a bit late in the evening for seb | 11:22 |
| seb128 | mdz: not in a GNOME 2.18 week :p | 11:22 |
| tepsipakki | heh | 11:22 |
| mdz | seb128: :-) | 11:22 |
| sabdfl | le mashine! | 11:22 |
| mdz | seb128: thanks for fixing yelp | 11:22 |
| seb128 | mdz: np ;) | 11:22 |
| seb128 | tepsipakki has made good work on most of the xorg merges with Debian and updates | 11:23 |
| mdz | my feisty installs and upgrades this week have been looking good | 11:23 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: i see you've touched X, what's your primary interest there? | 11:23 |
| seb128 | some mistakes with the recent updates, not so much with the xorg 7.2 work | 11:23 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: for feisty; to make it work right on more hardware | 11:23 |
| mdz | tepsipakki took it upon himself to get X 7.2 merged into feisty | 11:24 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: first motivation was to get my radeon work better, since it was mostly unusable on edgy with DRI | 11:25 |
| seb128 | he has been organized on that and did a good job | 11:25 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: any other areas f the distro that you are interested in? | 11:25 |
| mdz | kylem: are you here? | 11:25 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: how long have you been a MOTU? | 11:26 |
| tepsipakki | mdz: only for two months | 11:26 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: yes, let me put them in words :) | 11:27 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: in general, Ubuntu should and could support more hardware that corporate customers buy | 11:28 |
| tepsipakki | but I know that this is mostly a kernel issue, and AIUI the backports-modules framework is going to help with that | 11:28 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: are you involved in other free software projects than Ubuntu? | 11:28 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: not really | 11:29 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: well, I've bugged the linux-nfs guys in the past | 11:29 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: what software engineering background do you have? | 11:29 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: I've mostly been involved with administrative tools, so no real software projects as such | 11:30 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 19:00 UTC: Audio Team | 15 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00 UTC: MOTU Council | 17 Mar 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 19 Mar 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | ||
| tepsipakki | tools that evolve over time | 11:31 |
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| mdz | tepsipakki: I have a number of project ideas around X which I've been mulling over and discussing with folks for a while now. mind if I ask for your input on some of them? | 11:31 |
| tepsipakki | sure | 11:31 |
| tepsipakki | I've seen some on the wiki | 11:31 |
| tepsipakki | and read the Debian XSF roadmap | 11:31 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: simple x mode selection, for example | 11:32 |
| mdz | currently, it's quite a bit more complex than it needs to be to override the autodetected settings for a video mode | 11:33 |
| tepsipakki | yes | 11:33 |
| mdz | while we guess pretty well, we aren't perfect, and it's unlikely that we'll be perfect on every possible hardware combo | 11:33 |
| mdz | if you're familiar with the approach I've proposed, what do you think of it? | 11:34 |
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| tepsipakki | upstream is raving about RandR-1.2, which should basically make it alot easier | 11:34 |
| mdz | whether you're familiar with it or not, do you have other ideas about how to accomplish the overall goal? | 11:34 |
| tepsipakki | do you have an URL handy? | 11:34 |
| mdz | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/simple-x-mode-selection | 11:34 |
| mdz | but I don't expect you to digest it right now during the meeting | 11:34 |
| tepsipakki | heh, no but I'll quickly check it out | 11:35 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: how long have you been in MOTU? | 11:36 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: two months now.. | 11:36 |
| StevenK | [09:26] < mdz> tepsipakki: how long have you been a MOTU? | 11:36 |
| StevenK | [09:26] < tepsipakki> mdz: only for two months | 11:36 |
| StevenK | If I can help. | 11:36 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: is RandR 1.2 part of the 7.2 stuff in feisty, or will it arrive with the 1.3 server refresh? | 11:36 |
| mdz | or not until 7.3? | 11:37 |
| sabdfl | given that it's only been 2 months, what's the rationale for pushing quickly into -core-dev? | 11:37 |
| tepsipakki | mdz: in 1.3 | 11:37 |
| sabdfl | 7.3? | 11:37 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: since Mithrandir asked me to :) | 11:37 |
| sabdfl | Mithrandir: around? | 11:37 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: xorg-server-1.3, now at rc1 | 11:37 |
| mdz | sabdfl: X 7.2 is in feisty, X 7.3 is planned for after feisty's release, but in between they're putting out a new server version (decoupled from the big X releases) | 11:37 |
| tepsipakki | yes, and I'm running that one on my home desktop | 11:38 |
| sabdfl | oh, that's going to make things a lot more confusing for us mortals | 11:38 |
| tepsipakki | heh | 11:38 |
| mdz | sabdfl: it will make it easier for us to take in newer bits | 11:38 |
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| tepsipakki | mdz: to answer the question; yes, we will need a gui to make it easier to adjust some settings, but mostly I'd like it to be autoprobed as much as possible | 11:39 |
| tepsipakki | and that seems to be the upstream goal as well | 11:39 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: we already have a gui which is fairly nice, though the way we configure the server makes it not very useful | 11:40 |
| tepsipakki | the monolithic xorg.conf could be split up and put it a xorg.conf.d/ directory or similar (as proposed on the XSF roadmap), and then make it very modular and flexible for the admin | 11:41 |
| tepsipakki | s/and then/that would/ | 11:41 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: the issue is that the server selects the default mode based on configured ranges, which also affect the range of available modes | 11:42 |
| mdz | what we want is to be able to choose a default mode which we're very confident will work, but let the user override it with a higher-spec mode if they know their hardware is capable | 11:42 |
| tepsipakki | crt's are a problem | 11:43 |
| mdz | they'll be with us for a long while yet :-) | 11:43 |
| tepsipakki | since the highest mode isn't always usable.. | 11:43 |
| tepsipakki | true | 11:43 |
| mdz | I scandalously still use a CRT myself | 11:43 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: right, that's why I propose to put the choice in the hands of the user | 11:44 |
| tepsipakki | I tried my desktop without a conffile, and it used a resolution I didn't know it was capable of :) | 11:44 |
| StevenK | mdz: Ah, but what size CRT? | 11:44 |
| mdz | Windows uses a similar scheme, and it's simple and intuitive | 11:44 |
| mdz | StevenK: 19" | 11:44 |
| === StevenK hugs his 19" LCD | ||
| StevenK | Well, it's more $WORK than mine, but oh well | 11:45 |
| tepsipakki | mine too, Nokia 446Pro, normally 1600x1200 but it used some 2xxx*18xx | 11:45 |
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| mdz | tepsipakki: another area I've thought about is bullet-proof-x, which means ensuring that the user can always get to a basic, usable desktop no matter what | 11:45 |
| mdz | even if they swap out their video card or monitor, e.g. | 11:45 |
| tepsipakki | that's where autoprobing helps | 11:46 |
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| tepsipakki | but again, doesn't always work | 11:46 |
| mdz | the proposal was for a sort of "safe mode" which would use the settings most likely to work, with an absolute minimum of autodetection | 11:46 |
| tepsipakki | a fallback-conf | 11:46 |
| mdz | yes | 11:46 |
| ajmitch | not even vesa works on all hardware, I've heard | 11:46 |
| tepsipakki | ajmitch: yep | 11:46 |
| tepsipakki | painfully aware of that :) | 11:46 |
| mdz | it's true, and there's no one mode which works everywhere either | 11:46 |
| tepsipakki | besides, for some reason our vesa is dog-slow | 11:47 |
| StevenK | X linked against libaa? | 11:47 |
| mdz | but the current situation is rather more dire | 11:47 |
| mdz | changing from one perfectly supported piece of hardware to another produces a non-working system | 11:47 |
| mdz | which can only be repaired with cryptic CLI commands | 11:47 |
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| tepsipakki | that's right | 11:48 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: I've been told by some that Fedora is now relying on the X server to do hardware probing, running without a config file. do you know if that is true? | 11:48 |
| mdz | I know for a fact that there are some cases our system handles which that approach doesn't (yet?), so I'm interested to know how we should approach that decision | 11:49 |
| mdz | we eventually want to move toward something like that, but without regressing in cases where we currently do well | 11:49 |
| tepsipakki | mdz: I burned F6.91 livecd and tried it on a Thinkpad Z61p, and that did have a configfile | 11:49 |
| tepsipakki | they are using a rather exotic combination anyway | 11:50 |
| mdz | interesting | 11:50 |
| mdz | I'll have to play with it in vmware and see what they're up to | 11:50 |
| tepsipakki | xorg-server-1.2.99.901 with libx11-1.0.3 :P | 11:50 |
| StevenK | Fedora runs two X servers on boot from what I've seen, too. It's wacky. | 11:50 |
| StevenK | Their splash screen is in X, from what I've heard. | 11:51 |
| tepsipakki | they have some wacky patches as well, such that won't get upstream | 11:51 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: I'd like to give Mithrandir and others a chance to give us feedback about your work so far, especially since you've only been involved for a relatively short time. would it be OK with you if we continued this conversation by mail and got a bit more input before deciding? | 11:51 |
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| tepsipakki | mdz: sure, no problemo | 11:51 |
| sabdfl | i'll include this in the mail to the rest of TB | 11:51 |
| sabdfl | thanks all | 11:51 |
| mdz | if he encouraged you to attend the meeting, perhaps he was around earlier, but he isn't now | 11:52 |
| mdz | any other business for the meeting? | 11:52 |
| mdz | or post-meeting, as it were | 11:52 |
| tepsipakki | well, maybe he just didn't want me to bug him every now and then ;) | 11:52 |
| mdz | ok, thanks all | 11:52 |
| mdz | good night | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | tepsipakki: are you still wanting to do some of the ubuntu-directory stuff? | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | night mdz | 11:52 |
| tepsipakki | ajmitch: oh that | 11:52 |
| tepsipakki | ajmitch: if I have the time :) | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | hehe :) | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | you sound like me | 11:53 |
| shawarma | ajmitch: What's the story with that? Package fedora directory server or something more? | 11:53 |
| === ajmitch has so far managed to get some client config stuff in | ||
| ajmitch | shawarma: yeah, I've been quietly working on that | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | that's 1 part of it | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | fds, samba, kerberos, etc | 11:53 |
| tepsipakki | ajmitch: you've done the client-connector or what it is called? | 11:54 |
| tepsipakki | I have high hopes for samba4 | 11:54 |
| ajmitch | tepsipakki: authtool, but I need to do another upload soon to fix some issues | 11:54 |
| ajmitch | samba4 is a *long* way off | 11:54 |
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| tepsipakki | yes, unfortunately | 11:54 |
| Burgwork | :) | 11:54 |
| ajmitch | Burgwork: been there for weeks/months | 11:54 |
| Burgwork | really? | 11:54 |
| ajmitch | yep | 11:54 |
| tepsipakki | it got in just before FF :) | 11:54 |
| tepsipakki | IIRC | 11:55 |
| === ajmitch didn't put in the decent UI, since it was still being worked on | ||
| ajmitch | so I need to update it asap :) | 11:55 |
| tepsipakki | heh | 11:55 |
| ajmitch | it's currently a bit basic | 11:55 |
| tepsipakki | is it based on the fedora tool? | 11:55 |
| Burgwork | ajmitch: should i bother filing bugs | 11:56 |
| Burgwork | ? | 11:56 |
| Burgwork | anyway, back to the directory stuff | 11:56 |
| ajmitch | Burgwork: there are a few filed already | 11:56 |
| ajmitch | not based on the fedora tool | 11:56 |
| ajmitch | we should move to #ubuntu-directory | 11:57 |
| tepsipakki | hmm, I forgot to mention installer work | 11:57 |
| tepsipakki | oh well | 11:57 |
| === ajmitch has to leave in about 2 minutes, though | ||
| tepsipakki | and I need to get some sleep :P | 11:57 |
| ajmitch | :) | 11:57 |
| tepsipakki | it's 1am here | 11:57 |
| ajmitch | ok, see you later | 11:58 |
| tepsipakki | yeah, bye | 11:58 |
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| shawarma_ | ajmitch: /win 3 | 12:05 |
| shawarma_ | er.. no. | 12:05 |
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