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[12:34] <pitti> hi Keybuk 
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[12:39] <cliebow_> tkamppeter:i notice in ppc dist-upgrade to feisty from edgy that cups seems not to start..Ill pass on tomorrow anything if you are interested
[12:40] <cliebow_> tkamppeter, ogra suggested i mention this
[12:42] <pitti> cliebow_: I guess that's already fixed
[12:42] <_ion> http://popey.com/Ubuntu_is_sexy_alright (The answer: yes, it could: http://seveas.ubuntulinux.nl/falcon-2.png)
[12:43] <cliebow_> ok..ill  poke at it again tomorrow
[12:44] <Seveas> _ion, :p
[12:44] <pitti> cliebow_: just try dist-upgrading
[12:44] <ogra> Seiya, well, he's right :)
[12:45] <ogra> Seveas, ^^
[12:45] <Seveas> ogra, yeah, but I have an excuse
[12:45] <ogra> Seveas, but at least yours only shows one gender and no act ...
[12:45] <Seveas> I'm horrible with graphics :)
[12:45] <ogra> heh
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[12:59] <tkamppeter> cliebow_, you are probably hitten by bug 92205, wait for at least CUPS 1.2.8-0ubuntu6 reaching your mirror.
[12:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92205 in cupsys "Error on cupsys update" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92205
[01:01] <cliebow_> tkamppeter, very  good..will do!
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[01:01] <tkamppeter> pitti, you are still around? I have packaged ESP GhostScript 8.15.4 which was released today and is the last ESP GhostScript at all (biff).
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[01:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: this needs UVF exception from Tollef
[01:04] <cliebow_> pitti:UVF?
[01:04] <pitti> upstream version freeze
[01:05] <cliebow_> thank you..just learning...ltsp guy here...
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[01:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, yes, therefore this mails is primarily addressed to Tollef, but also to others who perhaps can approve this. You are CCed because you will probably upload it as sson as it is approved.
[01:07] <pitti> right
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[01:13] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: (approved, see mail)
[01:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, ESP GS is approved, can you upload it ASAP so that it hits the beta?
[01:17] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, in how many hours from now is the freeze?
[01:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: no breakages and properly tested this time? :)
[01:19] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: I don't know exactly; tomorrow European business daytime sometime
[01:19] <ogra> tkamppeter, traditionally the freezes started with the dev meeting, but that might have changed and is not a policy or something
[01:19] <tkamppeter> pitti, yes, there are no changes in dependencies, pre/postinstall scripts, ... I hab
[01:20] <ogra> cjwatson, we should probably set a time at some point and make it policy ... its easier to work towards a deadline you know
[01:21] <tkamppeter> have printed through it and displayed files with it, discovering that bug 42446 is fixed but many other bugs reported to Ubuntu are not fixed, but I did not find any regression.
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42446 in gs-esp "Ghostscript uses wrong font size with x11alpha (Dapper)" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42446
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[01:21] <cjwatson> I don't know about Tollef but I know that at least I wanted to encourage people not to work towards any particular time on freeze day
[01:21] <cjwatson> but it's Tollef's call now
[01:22] <ogra> why didnt you want that ? 
[01:22] <cjwatson> you get pathological results when people try to play the deadline to the nearest minute
[01:22] <kwwii> minute? I count the seconds :p
[01:22] <ogra> for me knowing i have to be done at 16:00 UTC helps a lot since i know i can sleep some hours and go on tomorrow morning ...
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[01:23] <ogra> as long as i dont know that i will go on working and not sleep until i've done everything
[01:23] <tkamppeter> But it is also bad if someone plans to do something at a certain hour, and then out of the blue, shortly before he finishes, the freeze gets announced.
[01:23] <cjwatson> then it doesn't have to be radically different for different people
[01:23] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: this is why it's a really, really, really bad idea to plan to land things on freeze day
[01:23] <ogra> tkamppeter, yes, thats why i work tonight
[01:24] <cjwatson> sometimes things have to slip right up to the freeze, which happens, but it shouldn't be the norm
[01:24] <ogra> tkamppeter, and i guess its the reson for pitti as well ...
[01:25] <pitti> ogra: indeed ;)
[01:25] <cjwatson> of course I'm breaking my own guidelines by being up late working tonight ;)
[01:25] <ogra> heh
[01:25] <tkamppeter> For me it happened that ESP GS 8,15,4 was announced at 9pm GMT and I remembered Ubuntu deadlines being at midnight GMT and so I submitted my UVF ER shortly before midnight to meet the deadline.
[01:26] <cjwatson> I don't recall any deadline ever *actually* being at midnight
[01:26] <cjwatson> but my memory may not be perfect
[01:26] <cjwatson> sometimes Chinese Whispers comes into play
[01:26] <tkamppeter> Originally, I did not know that this release will happen today and has a chance to hit the beta.
[01:27] <cjwatson> I'm perfectly OK with the result of freezes being that sometimes upstream releases don't make it
[01:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: well, would it hurt too hard if we upload it after beta?
[01:27] <cjwatson> anything this close to the beta needs to be reviewed pretty carefully anyway
[01:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: i. e. does the current version have 'OMGskyisfalling' bugs?
[01:27] <tkamppeter> There were many deadlines set to the beginning GMT midnight of a Thursday, as on Thursday there is devel meeting.
[01:28] <tkamppeter> What are 'OMGskyisfalling' bugs? These ones like the recent ones of hal and cupsys where we get more than 10 duplicates quickly as they break important functionality?
[01:29] <pitti> yes, stuff like that
[01:29] <cliebow_> i do like to sit in..gives me a feel for how it goes together
[01:30] <tkamppeter> I have never made so many Ubuntu packages on one day as today, fixing up bugs before the beta deadline.
[01:30] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: I think that's Chinese Whispers (if the idiom is difficult, that means rumours getting gradually corrupted as they pass from person to person). I can't find any announcements that actually specified that time.
[01:30] <pitti> tkamppeter: bug 92042 seems to be quite serious
[01:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92042 in cupsys "cupsys in feisty doesn't put any backends into /usr/lib/cups/backend/" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92042
[01:30] <cjwatson> I think it's possible that somebody told you that time, but that's not the same as it being announced as such ...
[01:31] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks for the 'Chinese Whispers' :) in German we have a similar phrase ("Stille Post")
[01:31] <cjwatson> anyway, not really important now
[01:31] <tkamppeter> I hate deadlines being announced only by the day and not by the time, especially in international projects like Ubuntu
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[01:32] <tkamppeter> bug 92042 I have fixed, should be done in cupsys 1.2.8-0ubuntu7, pitti, have you uploded
[01:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92042 in cupsys "cupsys in feisty doesn't put any backends into /usr/lib/cups/backend/" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92042
[01:32] <cjwatson> assume the least favourable interpretation to you and you'll never be disappointed
[01:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, I meant that this should go into beta
[01:33] <tkamppeter> it? I had it ready hours before the potential deadline.
[01:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: doing now; I was at Taekwondo this evening, and I cannot always immediately sponsor packages
[01:35] <pitti> tkamppeter: cupsys> you tested upgrades and fresh install?
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[01:37] <pitti> tkamppeter_: cupsys> you tested upgrades and fresh install?
[01:38] <tkamppeter_> Yes, now I let the postinstall script always recreate the links, independent whether the user has done changes via debconf or not.
[01:39] <pitti> tkamppeter_: weird, I don't have links, I have file copies
[01:39] <pitti> ah, those are hardlinks
[01:40] <tkamppeter_> pitti, the links are hard links. the postinstall script does "ln" without "-s".
[01:40] <pitti> tkamppeter_: hm, symlinks would be a bit clearer, but *shrug*
[01:40] <tkamppeter_> I do not know why these are hard links. Probably someone at Debian opted for this way.
[01:41] <pitti> tkamppeter_: why are there more files in backend/ than in backend-available? (beh, bluetooth, canon, epson, hp, hpfax)
[01:41] <pitti> ah, those are from other packages
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[01:44] <pitti> tkamppeter: gs-esp does not have an updated Maintainer: field; please use current feisty's dpkg
[01:44] <pitti> tkamppeter: I set it now
[01:46] <tkamppeter> I have always used current Feisty's dpkg. Strange, for all other packages it complained with a bad Maintainer: field.
[01:46] <pitti> tkamppeter: also, the source diff.gz has changes to upstream code, although the package uses dpatch
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[01:47] <tkamppeter> I have done my Debian morning gymnastics every day (sudo apt-get dist-upgrade).
[01:48] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, you don't have an Ubuntuish DEBEMAIL, that's why dpkg doesn't fail any more (it just warns)
[01:48] <tkamppeter> These changes in diff.gz seem to comne from Debian. There were always there and I never touched them.
[01:48] <pitti> tkamppeter: still these three added files in the diff.gz are alright?
[01:48] <pitti> ok
[01:49] <tkamppeter> Yes, by the last upstream one of these files has even gone away (src/gdevpdfo.c).
[01:50] <pitti> alright, 'nuff for today
=== pitti hits the sack, good night everyone
[01:52] <_ion> Good night.
[01:53] <tkamppeter> Good night pitti, and thanks for the quick reviews and uploads.
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[06:36] <Sambis> Hi
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[06:40] <Sambis> I hate microsoft
[06:41] <Sambis> I am doing a degree in IT and you have to use MS OFFICE
[06:41] <Sambis> $400 later.
[06:41] <Sambis> I'm bitter
[06:41] <Sambis> and I'm twisted
[06:42] <Sambis> Keep up the good fight.
[06:42] <Sambis> roll on SOLIDIERS
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[06:44] <lifeless> Sambis: you can't use open office?
[06:45] <Sambis> No
[06:45] <Sambis> they wont let you or atleast your marks will be lower.
[06:45] <fabbione> morning
[06:46] <Sambis> We are living in a microsoft world. 
[06:46] <lifeless> Sambis: how would they know?
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[06:47] <Sambis> o00oo and MS are a bit different
[06:47] <lifeless> anyhow, its really offtopic here, but frankly, I wouldn't take such a course.
[06:47] <Treenaks> Sambis:  We all live in a Windows subroutine 
[06:47] <Sambis> lol
[06:47] <Sambis> HAha.
[06:48] <Sambis> funniest thing ive seen all day.
[06:48] <Sambis> anyway back on topic
[06:49] <Treenaks> fabbione: do you know who I should contact, or where I should look for someone who wants an USB device for driver development?
[06:49] <slomo_> mjg59: sure, i'll look at it later today
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[06:49] <fabbione> Treenaks: it depends from the device i guess
[06:50] <fabbione> what is it?
[06:50] <Treenaks> fabbione: A "phone" (USB audio device; this part works, with a bunch of buttons, that don't work) (bug 72079)
[06:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72079 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Keys of USB "handset" not working" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/72079
[06:51] <Treenaks> The only place I've seen those buttons working is using a special driver from the manufacturer, in skype, in windows
[06:52] <fabbione> Treenaks: it's a skype phone.. they used to have a driver for linux too
[06:52] <Treenaks> fabbione: but I don't want skype, I want ekiga ;)
[06:52] <fabbione> let me rephrase
[06:52] <fabbione> skype wrote a linux driver for the keys
[06:52] <fabbione> no matter for what app you use it
[06:53] <Treenaks> oh.. cool
[06:53] <Treenaks> hmm
[06:53] <fabbione> give me a little bit
[06:53] <fabbione> i will ask the skype guys
[06:55] <Treenaks> fabbione: there's a "Yealink" driver for some kind of Skype phone in the kernel already, but that doesn't work for this device
[06:56] <fabbione> Treenaks: can you please add all these info to the bug?
[06:56] <Treenaks> fabbione: will do
[06:57] <Treenaks> can I quote this IRC conversation?
[06:58] <fabbione> yeps
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[07:00] <Treenaks> fabbione: done
[07:00] <fabbione> thanks
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[07:02] <Treenaks> (I've also added the hardware offer)
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[08:23] <Lure> cjwatson: seen that? http://weblog.obso1337.org/2007/user-based-testing-expected-for-digikam-and-ubiquity/
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[09:09] <pitti> Good morning
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[09:12] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
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[09:13] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm awake now.
[09:13] <pitti> Hello Mithrandir 
[09:13] <Mithrandir> morning
[09:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: if you have a minute, I'd like to get your general gut feeling about bug 87292
[09:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87292 in apport "packaging backend crashes with "Interrupted system call"" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87292
[09:15] <Mithrandir> pitti: ah, yes, I looked a bit at it last night.
[09:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: i. e. should we fix this in python itself to fix it for all Python programs, or just fix it in apport
[09:15] <Mithrandir> I'm fine with fixing it in python, but I wonder why you seem to effectively remove the 1MB size limit exception for exceptions?
[09:16] <pitti> -            data = os.read(errpipe_read, 1048576) # Exceptions limited to 1 MB
[09:16] <pitti> +            data = self._read_all(errpipe_read, 1048576) # Exceptions limited to 1 MB
[09:16] <pitti> Mithrandir: I do?
[09:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: if I did that inadvertedly, I'll fix it of course
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++        def _read_all(self, fd, buffersize):
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++            """Like os.read, but retries on EINTR, and reads until EOF"""
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++            all = ""
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++            while True:
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++                data = self._read_no_intr(fd, buffersize)
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++                    return all
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++                all += data
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ++                if data == "":
[09:17] <Mithrandir> that seems to read all the data and the buffer size is just that, a buffer size?
[09:18] <pitti> ah, indeed
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[09:18] <pitti> -                data = self._read_no_intr(fd, buffersize)
[09:18] <pitti> +                data = self._read_no_intr(fd, buffersize-len(data))
[09:18] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^ that should do
[09:19] <khermans__> "... cmon ... developers, developers, developers, developers, developers ... "
[09:19] <pitti> erm, len(all) of course
[09:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: thanks for catching this
[09:21] <Mithrandir> pitti: can you attach a new debdiff and I'll review that?
[09:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: sure, but I'll build and run the test suite first
[09:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: also, do you know what python upstream thinks of it?
[09:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: I sent it to http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1068268&group_id=5470&atid=105470
[09:22] <Ubugtu> Sourceforge bug 1068268 "subprocess is not EINTR-safe" [Pri: 3,Open]  
[09:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: but no answer yet
[09:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: it has been reported 3 years ago already
[09:22] <Mithrandir> I'm wondering if we should make it optional, but that entails changing the API (but it'd be backwards-compatible by using a default argument)
[09:22] <pitti> and google is full of this kind of error
[09:22] <Mithrandir> hmkay
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[09:43] <pitti> uh, new kernel just before the beta freeze
[09:43] <dholbach> good morning
[09:44] <_ion> Morning.
[09:44] <dholbach> hi _ion
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[09:45] <pitti> dholbach: does launchpad.HTMLOperations already know how to scrape an LP bug list page and return a list of bug numbers?
[09:46] <dholbach> pitti: yes
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[09:48] <dholbach> pitti: BugList() should do that
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[09:49] <_ion> Eww, parsing HTML with regexps
[09:51] <dholbach> we'll try to move to xpath in 0.2
[09:52] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[09:52] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[09:54] <_ion> I love WWW::Mechanize for screen scraping: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ion/restricted-manager/ion/annotate/johan%40kiviniemi.name-20070313142552-ftr0w5oheprva94w?file_id=nvidia_supported-20070310133217-8rcwj3c0tsd5pv1w-2
[09:54] <_ion> It's a Ruby module, though.
[09:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: updated debdiff: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6820346/python2.5.87292.debdiff , actual code changes: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6820347/subprocess-eintr-safety.patch
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[09:58] <_ion> dholbach: The gist of that code is basically: get 'http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_archive.html'; click page.links.with.href(link_re); click page.links.with.text(/Supported Products List/); (page / 'td[text() ^= "0x"] ').map {|td| td.inner_html.strip.hex }
[09:59] <_ion> dholbach: That returns an array such as [0x0112, 0x01A0, 0x0111, ...]  scraped from a page such as http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_18897.html
[09:59] <dholbach> looks nice
[09:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, bug 91699 is a very interesting RM decision :/
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91699 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev "FTBFS with current xorg headers" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91699
[09:59] <dholbach> although I think I'd prefer xpath statements somehow
[09:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: busted if you do, busted if you don't...
[10:00] <_ion> dholbach: The 'td[text() ^= "0x"] ' is an xpath statement. :-)
[10:00] <dholbach> yeah :)
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[10:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: won't _write_no_intr return the wrong value if you get eintr?  You don't save the return value anywhere?  (But I'm not sure if python gives you that?)
[10:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: not sure what you mean? it's immediately returned
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[10:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: the only other exit point is the raise
[10:07] <pitti> return os.write(fd, s)
[10:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: true, eintr is only returned if you were interrupted before any data was written.
[10:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm unsure if python correctly handles the case of some being written and you then getting a signal (since the return value will then be less than len(data))
[10:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: but that's a different problem
[10:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: that should be identical to write(2)
[10:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: i. e. if it's interrupted in the middle, the whole write(2) call fails with EINTR
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[10:09] <pitti> and we don't know how much was written
[10:09] <Mithrandir> that's not what write(2) says.
[10:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: so the only way to ensure integrity is write(2) itself - it has to roll back the writing on EINTR
[10:09] <Mithrandir>        EINTR  The call was interrupted by a signal before any data  was  writ
[10:09] <Mithrandir>               ten.
[10:10] <pitti> ah, nice
[10:10] <Mithrandir> in some cases, you can't roll back.  Think a TCP connection.
[10:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: so write() seems to make sure that it is transactional
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[10:11] <Mithrandir> pitti: no.  write writes as much as it can, but if you're interrupted in the middle, you'll have a return value that's smaller than count.
[10:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, but then it won't return -1, but a positive number, and thus isn't regarded as 'failed'?
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[10:11] <Mithrandir> I doubt many python programs handle that case correctly; they expect an exception if not all the data is written.
[10:12] <fabbione> hey Keybuk 
[10:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: correct.  It just didn't do what the programmer expected.
[10:12] <Keybuk> heyhey
[10:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: anyway, looks good, go for it.
[10:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: yup
[10:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: but I still think that _write_no_intr() doesn't change that semantics
[10:12] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: throwing an exception and erroring is at least better than most C programs, which carry on regardless :p
[10:13] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: but python won't be throwing an exception here, I'm fairly sure.
[10:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: if a program does the wrong thing with _write_no_intr(), it will do the same wrong thing with a plain write(), too
[10:13] <Mithrandir> pitti: you're correct, it doesn't.
[10:13] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: the joy of entering in the middle of a larger discussion. :-)
[10:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: alright; thank you very much for the review!
[10:13] <pitti> hi Keybuk 
[10:14] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: ahh
[10:14] <Keybuk> sorry
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[10:15] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: we're discussing what happens if you write(2), then get a signal.  In C, you'll just get a smaller return value than what you expected, but I think it's even less common for python programs to handle this correctly (and I don't think python gives you an exception in that case)
[10:15] <imbrandon> moins all
[10:15] <fabbione> Keybuk: once you are settled, do you mind to drive me a few minutes to the UUID transition procedure?
[10:16] <Keybuk> fabbione: sure
[10:16] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: varies on how you set the signal handler
[10:16] <fabbione> great thanks
[10:16] <Keybuk> you can get either a smaller value, -EINTR or the value you expected to be written
[10:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, the fileobj write method does not return a value; that might mean that it checks for written == buffer size and throws an exception on inequality
[10:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: that would indeed be much more pythonic
=== pitti checks the code
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[10:18] <uatschitchun> Good morning!
[10:18] <uatschitchun> Someone here who is able to answer a little question concerning .desktop-files?
[10:19] <Keybuk> (SA_RESTART ftw [* conditions apply; may not be fully implemented by your kernel; your kernel is at risk if you don't keep up payments on your mortgage or any other loan secured on it; full written terms available on request] 
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[10:20] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: Might be better asking in #ubuntu-motu.
[10:21] <uatschitchun> It's in connection with debs and a not-showing menu item after installation ... so this one is better placed in motu?
[10:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: indeed, it does pretty much that
[10:21] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: What package?
[10:22] <uatschitchun> my own package beeing on the way to get into buntu
[10:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: I don't see how it helps to ensure data integrity, but *shrug*
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[10:22] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: Well #ubuntu-motu will be your best bet.
[10:22] <uatschitchun> k
[10:23] <uatschitchun> so have a nice day ;)
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[11:00] <stephanbuys> hi all, anyone working on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterBluetoothSupport ?
[11:02] <stephanbuys> I am developing some gnome bluetooth utilities and I'm searching for the best place to co-ordinate work. 
[11:02] <seb128> dholbach: ^
[11:03] <dholbach> stephanbuys: nice - what are you working on?
[11:05] <stephanbuys> dholbach, my "itch" that I'm scratching is that I want to use my cellphone's serial port to do dial-up networking via bluetooth
[11:05] <stephanbuys> dholbach, thus the app is a very simple pygtk/dbus app to detect devices in range, allow you to auth and create /dev/rcomm* with a couple of clicks
[11:06] <stephanbuys> dholbach, then I'll try and make sure that network-manager recognizes the ports created in the process
[11:06] <dholbach> stephanbuys: that sounds awesome
[11:07] <stephanbuys> dholbach, its very simple and uses a lot of the established dbus apps (for pins, device discovery etc)
[11:08] <dholbach> stephanbuys: I suggest you add it to wiki.ubuntu.com/Bluetooth and send a mail to ubuntu-bluetooth@googlegroups.com - so people can test it
[11:08] <dholbach> stephanbuys: i fear it's too late to get it into feisty - but for feisty+1 we should definitely consider it
[11:08] <dholbach> stephanbuys: what do you think?
[11:09] <stephanbuys> dholbach, perfect. it wont be ready for feisty anyway. I just needed what you just provided to let people know what I'm up to
[11:09] <stephanbuys> dholbach, to avoid yet-another-bluetooth-app :-)
[11:10] <dholbach> stephanbuys: Marcell Holtmann also reads that list, so I think it's a good place to talk about it
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[11:10] <dholbach> good work
[11:10] <stephanbuys> dholbach, thanks!
[11:11] <dholbach> :-)
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[11:34] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: is that too late to upload in main ? I have a new kmplayer, bugfix release, ready for upload
[11:35] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: we're not frozen yet, if that's what you are asking about
[11:36] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: that's the real question indeed ;) let's go with upload then, thanks
[11:37] <pitti> Keybuk: you wanted restricted-manager on the live system for beta, right? if so, I should go on and promote/seed/ubuntu-meta it
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[11:37] <pitti> Keybuk: I'm now reasonably confident that it won't break people's boxes too hard any more
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[11:38] <tbf> seb128: switching channels to avoid upsetting fcrozat too much ;-)
[11:38] <seb128> tbf: ok ;)
[11:38] <tbf> seb128: what was the pretty dist-upgrade command again?
[11:39] <Keybuk> pitti: yes please
[11:39] <seb128> tbf: update-manager -d?
[11:40] <tbf> seb128: ah. indeed :-)
[11:40] <seb128> hate hate hate quilt
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: ?
[11:41] <seb128> pitti: 
[11:42] <seb128> quilt --quiltrc /dev/null pop -a -R || test $? = 2
[11:42] <seb128> Patch 099_autoreconf does not remove cleanly (refresh it or enforce with -f)
[11:42] <seb128> make: *** [clean]  Error 1
[11:42] <seb128> 
[11:42] <seb128> $ grep 099_autoreconf taglib-1.4/* -r
[11:42] <seb128> $
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: well, that's usually not quilt's fault; this happens with othe rpatch systems, too
[11:42] <seb128> it happens with quilt only on my desktop
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[11:42] <pitti> seb128: oh, hmm
[11:42] <seb128> and I don't know where it's looking for that one
[11:42] <seb128> usually that happens when there is no debian/patches
[11:43] <seb128> mkdir debian/patches and then debuild fixes it
[11:43] <seb128> in that case there is a debian/patches with a series and 01_update-libtool.diff
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[11:46] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am going to grab a bit.. are you up for that UUID conversion in 30 minutes or so? i just need to know what packages to look at and how some stuff is done
[11:46] <fabbione> bit/bite
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[11:47] <Keybuk> fabbione: 30 mins is too early, sorry
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[11:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: sure that's fine...
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[12:01] <Riddell> carlos_: still no progress on bug 46982?
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
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[12:01] <carlos_> Riddell: I'm finishing the bits required to implement that
[12:01] <Riddell> carlos: ooh, cool
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[12:21] <Mithrandir> dholbach: hm, do you want universe to have a proper beta freeze too or should I just wave uploads to there through?
[12:21] <dholbach> wave through
[12:21] <Mithrandir> ok
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Mithrandir] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with feisty; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Main frozen for beta
[12:21] <dholbach> (as along as they don't hinder you)
[12:22] <Mithrandir> nah, that's fine, I'll just ignore them.
[12:25] <tepsipakki> so now it's frozen?
[12:25] <tepsipakki> bah
[12:25] <tepsipakki> :)
[12:25] <Mithrandir> it is.
[12:27] <Fujitsu> Hrm, the dbgsym packages don't seem to do epochs well. Like, they ignore them and thus fail to install.
[12:27] <pitti> Fujitsu: pkg-create-dbgsym bug report appreciated
[12:27] <Fujitsu> pitti: Shall do.
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[12:29] <ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu is still behind with the artwork and will still need a bit (will be done before the meeting), is that ok with you ?
[12:29] <Mithrandir> ogra: sure.
[12:29] <ogra> thanks :)
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[12:31] <Fujitsu> pitti: Actually, it seems to not affect everything... libgcc1-dbgsym breaks, while others work...
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[12:34] <ogra> pitti, for future use, is there any way to make apport shut up temporary while i'm developing gui apps that frequently crash ? 
[12:34] <pitti> ogra: it shouldn't trigger on non-packaged programs
[12:34] <ogra> it can get quite annoying if yu search for a crasher :)
[12:34] <ogra> well it was a packaged program :)
[12:34] <pitti> oh, you do 'sudo vi /usr/bin/foo'?
[12:35] <pitti> ogra: well, /etc/init.d/apport stop
[12:35] <ogra> but we should have a gconf key or something for feisty+1
[12:35] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: couple of oem-config fixes needed - last two patches on http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/oem-config/trunk/changes
[12:35] <cjwatson> 268 and 269
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[12:36] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: looks good, go ahead
[12:37] <ogra> pitti, do you already have the langpack list in ubuntu ? 
[12:37] <ogra> (th efinal one)
[12:37] <pitti> ogra: no, I'm going to shuffle the language priorities around a bit wrt. bug 67925
[12:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67925 in Ubuntu "Do not ship translations without matching input support" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67925
[12:37] <pitti> ogra: I'll do that RSN (today)
[12:38] <Mithrandir> pitti: I assume you already knew, but please merge that to derivatives too.
[12:38] <ogra> pitti, ok, i want to have a look at the list to fill the edubuntu CDs 
[12:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: of course
[12:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: care to let my u-d-a post through, once it hits the queue?
[12:40] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: done
[12:40] <Mithrandir> thanks
[12:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: I just promoted restricted-manager to main; is the publisher still on auto, so that this will take effect in the archive?
[12:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes.
[12:42] <Mithrandir> (and it'll most likely be on auto at least until after the weekend)
[12:48] <pitti> ogra: do you want to manage the list of languages yourself for edubuntu?
[12:49] <ogra> pitti, for the server and add-on CD at least ...
[12:49] <pitti> Riddell: ^ same question; if not, can you please merge the kubuntu seeds to the ubuntu changes, so that I don't have trouble with mangling languages?
[12:49] <ogra> the desktop one should be the same as ubuntus if possible 
[12:49] <ogra> (wit langs dropped based on space)
[12:49] <pitti> ogra: ok; if you want me to mangle it for you, can you please merge your seeds as well?
[12:49] <ogra> pitti, i have some 100s of free megabytes ... 
[12:50] <ogra> i could make a langpack CD out of my add-on CD i guess :)
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[12:55] <Riddell> pitti: merged
[12:56] <pitti> Riddell: thanks
[01:01] <ogra> pitti, hmm, i only see commits from Keybuk in bzr missing
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[01:01] <ogra> oh
[01:01] <ogra> i should use ubuntu.feisty i guess :P
[01:01] <ogra> instead of .edgy ...
[01:02] <ogra> but seems Keybuk made the same mistake using the wrong release *g*
[01:02] <Keybuk> ages ago
[01:02] <ogra> yeah
[01:03] <ogra> but thats a pattern if i'm already the second to make the same mistake... we should improve it .... ;)
[01:03] <Keybuk> timestamp: Tue 2006-11-14 16:09:58 -0800
[01:03] <Keybuk> message:
[01:03] <Keybuk>   undo my changes to THE WRONG RELEASE
[01:03] <pitti> too bad that there's no --seal in bzr :)
[01:03] <ogra> yeah
[01:04] <Keybuk> funny thing is I actually did that fresh
[01:04] <Keybuk> checked out the edgy seeds, changed them, commitetd them
[01:04] <ogra> heh
[01:04] <Keybuk> and then only realised the next day that we were doing feisty now
[01:04] <Keybuk> pitti: that'd be a technical solution to a human problem? :p
[01:05] <Treenaks> pitti: there's chmod -w ;)
[01:05] <pitti> Treenaks: not accessible on bazaar.lp.net
[01:06] <pitti> Keybuk: well, just the same way as pedestrian pavement fences are to keep people from walking onto the road :)
[01:07] <Treenaks> pitti: 'they can still do it, but it's more annoying'? :P
[01:07] <pitti> Mithrandir, ogra, Riddell: FYI: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/langpack-size.txt updated for current feisty packs, with new prioritization
[01:07] <ogra> meh, lots of conflicts
[01:08] <ogra> oh, we ship f-spot ? when was that added ? 
[01:08] <pitti> ages ago
[01:08] <ogra> do we have migration scripts to import the existing gthumb collections ? 
[01:09] <pitti> ogra: NB that we didn't remove gthumb
[01:09] <Fujitsu> Hasn't F-Spot been default since mid-Edgy?
[01:10] <ogra> oh
[01:12] <ogra> phew, thats a lot of languages on the desktop CD
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[01:13] <pitti> ogra: btw, we now also need to add the necessary input support if you ship languages that need it
[01:14] <pitti> cjwatson: can I add a new file 'langpacks.txt' to the seeds without breaking something? I'd like to add some instructions and templates
[01:16] <iwj> So has network-mangler ever worked properly with dialup ?
[01:16] <heno> Mithrandir: are DVDs rsyncable? (or can they be set up to be?)
[01:16] <Mithrandir> heno: yes, they are.
[01:16] <heno> ok, thanks
[01:19] <ogra> phew, that was a huge merge
[01:19] <ogra> pitti, done ... waiting to see my livecd explode
[01:20] <ogra> iwj, nope
[01:20] <pitti> ogra, Riddell: I'll do this in two steps: (1) trim the langpack list to a small number to fix the current overflows, and (2) add more stuff tomorrow when I see how much space we actually have left; doing it in one step today is pretty hard due to the scim stuff
[01:21] <ogra> yep
[01:21] <iwj> ogra: IC.  And here I am wrestling with winmodems !
[01:21] <Riddell> pitti: cool
[01:22] <ogra> iwj, does it have an option to configure dialup stuff now ? 
[01:22] <ogra> i'd expect to have to do it through network-admin 
[01:23] <ogra> (just because it has this little phone icon, no idea how well that works, i got no modem around)
[01:24] <pitti> joy. ppc/alternates are 28 MB oversized without having a single non-English langpack on them
[01:24] <iwj> Yes, well, I configured the network setup in network-admin but the configuration doesn't work (even if I pppd call ppp0 from an xterm).
[01:24] <Hobbsee> pitti: ouch...
[01:26] <ogra> iwj, does it work with pppconfig ? 
[01:26] <iwj> Haven't tried that yet.
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[01:26] <iwj> My goal is not just to get this thing to work; it's to make it so that random users who have no idea what they're doing can get it to work too.
[01:27] <ogra> iwj, imho we should have pppoeconf and pppconfig integrated in the system-tools since quite some time, but nobody took the task to do that
[01:27] <iwj> Right.  network-manager failed to put noauth in the peer spec file.
[01:27] <ogra> usually both of these commandline tools do perfectly work right
[01:28] <mjg59> pppconfig isn't really a good answer
[01:28] <mjg59> iwj: network-manager or network-admin? (not putting noauth in)
[01:28] <ogra> mjg59, but it usually works right
[01:28] <iwj> mjg59: Err, (b) I mean.
[01:28] <iwj> network-admin
[01:29] <mjg59> Right
[01:29] <cjwatson> pitti: random files that aren't in STRUCTURE should be no-ops
[01:29] <mjg59> I've had success with network-admin in the past, but it may be broken now
[01:29] <cjwatson> pitti: maybe a doc/ directory?
[01:29] <pitti> cjwatson: sounds good
[01:29] <iwj> mjg59: There's a comment in ppp/options suggesting that the default has changed to `auth'.
[01:29] <mjg59> Oh, right. Sounds irritating.
[01:30] <mjg59> Probably a trivial fix to network-admin, though
[01:30] <BenC> Mithrandir: FYI, I have lrm, linux-meta and ldm to go with the -11 kernel I uploaded last night, and I also have to do another (non-ABI bump) kernel upload to fix two major bugs
[01:30] <iwj> mjg59: Indeed.
[01:31] <fabbione> BenC: i pushed a one liner for printk(KERN_ERR -> KERN_INFO
[01:31] <pitti> Riddell: wow, you have heaps of space
[01:31] <fabbione> BenC:  i couldn't stand anymore scsi_proc.c telling me that drivers are not support /proc interface anylonger
[01:31] <BenC> fabbione: this morning?
[01:31] <fabbione> yes
[01:31] <BenC> ok
[01:32] <BenC> fabbione: I'll pick it up when I sync, thanks
[01:32] <fabbione> BenC: no problem. thanks to you
[01:32] <fabbione> BenC: btw.. dm-multipath and OCFS2 in cluster mode are gold...
[01:32] <fabbione> BenC: waiting only for local mount to be fixed..
[01:32] <BenC> fabbione: nice
[01:32] <fabbione> BenC: also qlogic 24xx is good
[01:32] <BenC> fabbione: you have that hw?
[01:32] <fabbione> BenC: i need to test the PCI-X versions but the PCI-E is goof
[01:32] <fabbione> good
[01:33] <BenC> fabbione: Excellent. So are you using it for rootfs?
[01:33] <fabbione> BenC: yes i got 3 qlogic cards.. 1 PCI-E for Niagara and 2 PCI-X for whatever
[01:33] <fabbione> BenC: not yet no...
[01:33] <fabbione> BenC: i didn't have time to install the PCI-X in x86 hw
[01:33] <Riddell> pitti: is that sarcasm?
[01:33] <fabbione> BenC: and OBP doesn't really know how to scan on it.. does it?
[01:34] <pitti> Riddell: it's not; most of your CDs have some 40 MB free
[01:34] <BenC> fabbione: OBP wouldn't even know it was there other than it's a PCI device of some kind
[01:34] <pitti> Riddell: however, you don't have any langpacks on them ATM already, so nothing to clean up for me
[01:34] <pitti> Riddell: shall I fill them up to 695 MB for you tomorrow?
[01:34] <fabbione> BenC: exactly :)
[01:34] <Mithrandir> BenC: ok, go ahead.
[01:34] <fabbione> BenC: but i will let you know once i get to install the hw.. i need to do more urgent stuff atm
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[01:36] <Riddell> pitti: sure, I only have space because there's no languages at the moment.  and ppc is overflowing (had to take off en-support), no idea why ppc is so large.
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[01:36] <Riddell> pitti: please do fill them up
[01:36] <fabbione> Riddell: 2 kernels compared to 1 in other arches
[01:36] <pitti> Riddell: oh, oops, I just added it again, thought that was a mistake
[01:36] <pitti> Riddell: ubuntu ppc/alternates CDs are huge as well; no idea why either
[01:37] <Riddell> pitti: actually ppc live does have 20Megs free, maybe language-support would fit
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[01:38] <Riddell> pitti: do you think it might be an idea to promote German on the Kubuntu CD above other languages?
[01:38] <pitti> Riddell: new priority list is now 'en es xh pt de fr bn hi ar'...
[01:39] <pitti> Riddell: i. e. first the languages which don't require special input support
[01:39] <Riddell> xh doesn't require special input?
[01:39] <pitti> Riddell: and as I said, I'm just removing all non-English langpacks from all CDs to have a clean slate for adding them tomorrwo
[01:39] <pitti> Riddell: apparently not, it's just Latin characters from what I could see
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[01:40] <Riddell> there's no KDE translation in xh I'm sure
[01:41] <iwj> Damn!  It has suddenly started working and I have no idea why.
[01:41] <pitti> Riddell: right, almost nothing
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[01:49] <Seveas> Mithrandir, I have a patch for usplash-theme-ubuntu fixing the text color problem - I think ot would be a good thing to have in the beta :) Who should I poke to get it applied?
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[01:49] <BenC> Mithrandir: linux-meta, linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 and linux-backports-modules-2.6.20 uploaded for -11 ABI
[01:49] <Mithrandir> BenC: cheers.
[01:50] <Mithrandir> Seveas: I'll be happy to review it.
[01:51] <Seveas> Mithrandir, it's a very straightforward patch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10473/
[01:51] <BenC> Mithrandir: thanks, I'll have new linux-source-2.6.20 uploaded tonight for you in the morning
[01:51] <Seveas> just changing color values
[01:51] <Mithrandir> BenC: cheers.
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[01:53] <Mithrandir> Seveas: hm, looks good, can you upload or should I?
[01:54] <Seveas> Mithrandir, I can't but I just realised a stupid mistake. Fixed patch coming up in a minute
[01:55] <Seveas> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10474/ (first theme has only 16 colors)
[01:56] <Seveas> if you could upload that, then a few usplash-theme-ubuntu bugs will be fixed :)
[01:56] <Seveas> I'll check the kubuntu and xubuntu themes as well
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[02:07] <kwwii> Mithrandir: howdy, I just uploaded the last of the artwork changes for the beta for ubuntu and kubuntu...is there still time to include it?
[02:07] <Mithrandir> kwwii: yes.
[02:07] <Mithrandir> kwwii: which packages?
[02:08] <Seveas> kwwii, heh, I'm just fixing the usplash themes :)
[02:08] <kwwii> Mithrandir: kubuntu-default-settings, feisty-gdm-themes and feisty-session-splashes
[02:08] <Mithrandir> kwwii: sure, will let them through.
[02:08] <kwwii> Seveas: cool, what is the change?
[02:09] <Seveas> kwwii, Mithrandir I'll have a patch for kubuntu-default-settings in a few minutes
[02:09] <Seveas> kwwii, color indexes
[02:09] <kwwii> Seveas: great :-)
[02:10] <kwwii> Mithrandir: thanks
[02:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok to upload a new language-support-lt with an added aspell-lt dependency? (I just promoted it to main, source and myspell-lt were already in main)
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[02:14] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, go ahead
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[02:18] <Seveas> Mithrandir / kwwii - patch for kubuntu-default-settings: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10476/
[02:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: uploaded
[02:22] <Riddell> Seveas: it fails to apply
[02:23] <Seveas> Riddell, hmm I apt-get sourced minutes ago - maybe you have an older version?
[02:24] <Riddell> Seveas: what version do you have?
[02:24] <Seveas> 1:7.04-31
[02:25] <Riddell> should be fine
[02:25] <Riddell> Seveas: could you put the patch on a web server somewhere, the pastebin might be corrupting it
[02:25] <Seveas> not if you grab http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10476/plain/
[02:26] <Seveas> did you do patch -psomething? it's debdiff output :)
[02:26] <jdong> pastebin, the world's best patch sharing mechanism :)
[02:26] <jdong> Seveas: patch -psomething works fine for debdiffs ;-)
[02:26] <Riddell> Seveas: like all pastebins that one has the habit of converting it to windows line endings
[02:27] <Seveas> hmmz
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[02:27] <Riddell> carlos: do you know why kopete translations have disappeared in feisty?
[02:27] <jdong> Riddell: "Trailer trash" as we call it in the US ;-)
[02:28] <Riddell> Seveas: or just put your usplash-theme-kubuntu.c file online somewhere
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[02:29] <Seveas> Riddell, http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors-k.patch
[02:29] <Seveas> Mithrandir, if you also have problems with the ubuntu usplash patch: http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors.patch
[02:29] <Riddell> Seveas: that did it
[02:29] <Mithrandir> Seveas: it applied fine for me using emacs's diff mode, but not patch
[02:30] <Seveas> stupid http/pastebin/firefox interaction
[02:30] <Seveas> anyway, patch for ubuntu also coming up
[02:30] <Seveas> xubuntu*
[02:31] <jdong> emacs has a _diff_ mode???
[02:31] <Mithrandir> jdong: of course.
[02:31] <jdong> does it have a "scratch my back" mode too?
[02:31] <jdong> cuz there's this spot I can't reach.
[02:31] <Mithrandir> not that I know of.  I have a wife for reaching those bits of my back.
[02:31] <jdong> :)
[02:31] <Mithrandir> (I have her for other reasons too, but it's a nice bonus)
[02:31] <jdong> I've noticed some students around here checking their e-mail with emacs.....
[02:31] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:31] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: careful...she might read that :P 
[02:32] <jdong> or spending extended periods of time talking to Doctor.
[02:32] <Mithrandir> jdong: yes, I use gnus too.  It's a wonderful client.
[02:32] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: given she's in the channel, she might very well.
[02:34] <Riddell> carlos: the kopete issue is that the source packages has changed from kopete to kdenetwork, is it possible to fix that in rosetta?
[02:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: new ubuntu-meta uploaded (addition of restricted-manager)
[02:36] <Riddell> pitti: restiricted-manager killed my X!
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[02:36] <pitti> Riddell: how so?
[02:37] <Riddell> pitti: see bugs reported, I seem to have a monopoly on restricted-manager bugs just now
[02:37] <pitti> Riddell: can you please file a bug report with the details? (new xorg.conf, how it should have looked like, lspci)
[02:37] <pitti> Riddell: ah, ok, thanks
[02:37] <pitti> Riddell: It got the bug list down to zero this morning
[02:37] <jdong> Riddell: ha I held that title a few days back :)
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[02:38] <pitti> jdong: yes, but I succeeded in fighting you back :)
[02:38] <jdong> pitti: speaking of that, any idea on the BusID issue and when it'll get fixed? :)
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[02:38] <jdong> It changed the driver from ati to fglrx. It also changed the busid from PCI:1:5:0 to PCI:0:5:0.
[02:38] <jdong> *cough* pitti *cough*
[02:38] <pitti> jdong: no idea where that came from in the first place; did you configure this manually?
[02:38] <jdong> :)
[02:38] <jdong> pitti: no, RM definitely does it
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[02:38] <Riddell> I confirm
[02:39] <jdong> pitti: the BusID is correct before running it, and magically it chanes to 0:5:0
[02:39] <jdong> I have no idea where 0:5:0 comes from
[02:39] <pitti> jdong: if you do sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, do you get the same?
[02:39] <jdong> pitti: not sure.... ask Riddell :D
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[02:40] <jdong> but so far we have 3 reports of that
[02:40] <pitti> Riddell: if you do sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, do you get the same?
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[02:40] <pitti> r-m just sets the debconf values for driver and calls dexconf, nothing else
[02:41] <Riddell> pitti: nope, it finds 1:5:0
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[02:41] <pitti> Riddell: with fglrx?
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[02:41] <pitti> oh, and it enables the glx module, but that can hardly be the cause as well
[02:42] <jdong> pitti: yeah I looked thru the code and saw nothing that could screw up BusID....
[02:42] <Riddell> pitti: yes, fglrx defaults to 1:5:0, but r-m changed it to 0:5:0
[02:42] <jdong> but nonehteless it happens consistently
[02:42] <pitti> Riddell: I need lspci for bug 92485
[02:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92485 in restricted-manager "no drivers listed, enable button broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92485
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[02:43] <jdong> is it just me or is LP really slow today?
[02:44] <jdong> Riddell: bug 92498 probably dupe-of bug #91036
[02:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92498 in restricted-manager "breaks X for ati radeon 330m/340m/350m (rs200 IGP)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92498
[02:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91036 in xorg "restricted-manager picks wrong BusID for video cards" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91036
[02:44] <jdong> that makes 3 reports: 2 fglrx 1 nvidia, busid 0:5:0
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[02:47] <Riddell> jdong: there's also the main bug which is that it changes it to fglrx which doesn't work with my video card
[02:47] <mvo> pitti: if I enable fglrx, should it rewrite my xorg.conf? and if it didn't, what can I do to debug the issue?
[02:47] <jdong> Riddell: interesting... so apparently pitti's detection for supported cards is incorrect too :)
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[03:02] <bddebian> Heya
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[03:10] <carlos> Riddell: yeah, I will take a look to fix kopete, I saw there was something weird there, but I hadn't time to check it with you. Thanks for your input
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[03:14] <pitti> Riddell: I don't understand that as well, we have several different issues here: (1) your ATI card isn't actually supported by fglrx? (2) was or wasn't it displayed in the list? (3) if it wasn't dispayed, how did you enable it?
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[03:14] <mvo> pitti: anything you needfor bug 92524? if not, I will fix xorg.conf by hand now
[03:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92524 in restricted-manager "Breaks X when disabling fglrx" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92524
[03:15] <pitti> wb mvo
[03:15] <pitti> mvo: yes, enabling fglrx should change the driver in xorg.conf
[03:15] <Riddell> pitti: it isn't supported (from what I've read), it was displayed in the r-m list, enabling it broke my X
[03:15] <mvo> pitti: anything I can do to help diagnose why it didn't? does r-m keep a log somewhere or something?
[03:16] <pitti> Riddell: ... 'there are no drivers listed.'
[03:16] <pitti> Riddell: and fixing the PCI ID doesn't help?
[03:16] <Riddell> fixing the PCI ID didn't help no
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[03:17] <Riddell> pitti: they are two different bugs from two different machines
[03:17] <pitti> Riddell: ah, I see
[03:18] <Mithrandir> Riddell: digikamimageplugins > are those just a split-out from digikam or a whole new source package?
[03:18] <Riddell> Mithrandir: new source package
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[03:19] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ok.
[03:19] <pitti> mvo: /var/cache/debconf/config.dat would be helpful 
[03:19] <Mithrandir> (I didn't see the MIR before now)
[03:20] <mvo> pitti: the complete thing? or just the bits about X?
[03:20] <pitti> mvo: the xorg bits are enough, of course
[03:21] <pitti> mvo: oh, is /var/cache/restricted-manager/fglrx.olddriver == 'fglrx'?
[03:21] <pitti> mvo: that would indeed explain it
[03:21] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you seeded git-email ages ago; it needs a few MIRs to be useful.  Are you going to do those or should I remove it from supported?
[03:22] <mvo> pitti: no, there is no flglrx file in that dir (after i rebootet at least)
[03:22] <pitti> Riddell: so bug 92498 was the one with the card that is not supported by the fglrx driver?
[03:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92498 in restricted-manager "breaks X for ati radeon 330m/340m/350m (rs200 IGP)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92498
[03:22] <Riddell> pitti: yes
[03:22] <pitti> mvo: ah, right, it's removed after you disable the driver
[03:23] <pitti> mvo: I have an idea how this could have happened, though
[03:23] <pitti> mvo: you manually edited xorg.conf to use fglrx before, and debconf still had 'ati'?
[03:23] <pitti> erm, no, that doesn't work
[03:24] <mvo> pitti: that is very possible
[03:24] <mvo> pitti: I edited xorg.conf for some modifications (e.g. scrolling with the trackpoint etc)
[03:24] <mvo> pitti: I probably set the driver then to fglrx too 
[03:24] <pitti> mvo: ok, I think I know how to make it more robust against that
[03:24] <mvo> pitti: ok, cool
[03:25] <mvo> pitti: there is this other issue that my video card seem to not work with vesa, so my only option is fglrx (X1400) - but that is a seperate problem
[03:25] <pitti> mvo: neither with ati?
[03:25] <pitti> mvo: how do you install that system in the first place?
[03:25] <mvo> pitti: no, no way with ati
[03:25] <pitti> vga??
[03:26] <mvo> pitti: I think it was vesa, but it seems the feisty vesa does not work anymore, but I will investigate a bit more
[03:26] <mvo> pitti: but the more recent mobile ati cards do not have support from the "ati" driver (not even for 2d)
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[03:28] <pitti> Riddell: in bug 92485, was it correct that there are no drivers displayed?
[03:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92485 in restricted-manager "no drivers listed, enable button broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92485
[03:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: you need to write a MIR for notify-python:
[03:30] <_ion> pitti: Seems like there isn't any hardware with restricted drivers in the lspci listing, http://librarian.launchpad.net/6823780/lspci
[03:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: argh, that one
[03:30] <Riddell> pitti: how do you mean correct?  I don't know enough but what drivers we have to say if some should have been listed but it's an amd64 without nvidia or ati video card
[03:30] <mvo> pitti: sorry, false alarm, vesa works, was probably just a unclean state of the gfxcard or something
[03:30] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: ? it didn't need anything at the time
[03:30] <pitti> Riddell: ah, that sounds about right then, unless you have an ipw3945 wifi or a ISDN card
[03:30] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: nothing to do with me, I was just doing MIR/anastacia I expect
[03:30] <mvo> pitti: so disabling should rewrite it to vesa, ati does definitely not work
[03:31] <pitti> mvo: it sets it back to whatever it was before you enabled it
[03:31] <pitti> mvo: i. e. what the debconf value was
[03:31] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: hm, ok.  I'll just remove it again, then.
[03:31] <mvo> pitti: aha, ok. that will work :)
[03:32] <pitti> mvo: however, if the 'previous' driver is already fglrx, then I better consider it as enabled already
[03:32] <mvo> pitti: *nod*
[03:32] <pitti> mvo: hm, it does already
[03:32] <pitti> mvo: is_enabled = return driver == "fglrx" and self.package_installed(self.driver_package)
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[03:33] <pitti> mvo: i. e. it would have been shown as disabled when you had debconf configured as fglrx, but the xorg-driver-fglrx package wasn't installed
[03:34] <pitti> _ion: which bug is that from?
[03:34] <_ion> pitti: The one you asked Riddell about.
[03:34] <pitti> _ion: no, that was http://librarian.launchpad.net/6823789/lspci
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[03:36] <pitti> _ion: oh, nevermind me; that was the other bug
[03:36] <_ion> pitti: Uh, interesting. I get the link i pasted instead of that. I'm using launchpad beta, are you?
[03:36] <_ion> Alright.
[03:36] <pitti> _ion: any idea about bug 92498? 
[03:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92498 in restricted-manager "breaks X for ati radeon 330m/340m/350m (rs200 IGP)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92498
[03:36] <pitti> _ion: does that mean the fglrx module claims to support a device which it doesn't work with?
[03:37] <mjg59> It sounds more like it's just a bug
[03:38] <mjg59> Oh, actually, maybe not
[03:38] <_ion> pitti: fglrx itself doesn't claim to support any hardware, so i just added to modalias.append:
[03:38] <mjg59> rs200 IGP is not the same as IGP200M
[03:38] <_ion> alias pci:v00001002d*sv*sd*bc03sc00i* fglrx
[03:38] <_ion> That is, "all VGA controllers by ATI".
[03:38] <_ion> That should be fixed by finding an accurate list of devices supported by the driver.
[03:39] <pitti> _ion: oh, dear
[03:39] <_ion> Just like i did with the nvidia driver.
[03:40] <_ion> I did take a quick look at the ATI site and the files in the fglrx driver "source", but didn't find such a list. I didn't look very hard.
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[03:43] <pitti> mvo: that config.dat was the one *after* disabling the driver? it says ati
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[03:45] <mvo> pitti: let me re-check
[03:46] <Mithrandir> Riddell: is the kdenetwork upload done by Tonio_ ok with you?  "Removed kubuntu_04_kopete_style_contacts.diff, closes Malone #90020" is the changelog entry
[03:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90020 in kdenetwork "Kopete should not use a patched contact list by default" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90020
[03:47] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yes, please let that through
[03:47] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I also uploaded a kdebase earlier with a compile fix
[03:47] <mvo> pitti: sorry, wrong file. I corrected it, the driver is vesa
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[03:47] <pitti> mvo: that keeps it mysterious, though
[03:47] <Mithrandir> Riddell: accepted.
[03:48] <pitti> mvo: so you disabled fglrx, and ended up with 'vesa' in debconf, and fglrx in xorg.conf?
[03:48] <mvo> pitti: correct
[03:50] <pitti> mvo: that's even more inexplicable then; r-m reads the old driver from fglrx.olddriver, sets debconf driver to it, and then calls dexconf
[03:50] <pitti> mvo: 'dexconf -o /tmp/xorg.conf' has vesa then?
[03:52] <pitti> Riddell: what is 'grep -A 2 'xserver-xorg/config/device/bus_id$' /var/cache/debconf/config.dat' on the machine with the broken BusID?
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[03:58] <mvo> pitti: yes
[03:59] <pitti> mvo: if you enable and disable it in r-m, do you still have the issue? is the file changed at all?
[04:02] <mvo> pitti: this is all a bit mysterious. it seems that when I clicked disable this time it wrote a complete new xorg.conf overwriting my old changes. this is really not what I want as i e.g. customized the scrolling behaviour of the trackpoint
[04:02] <mvo> pitti: but it set the (correct) vesa driver
[04:02] <pitti> mvo: right, as I said, it just uses dexconf
[04:02] <pitti> mvo: it back up all previous xorg.conf's at least
[04:03] <mvo> pitti: and enabling it gives me the correct fglrx driver now
[04:03] <ogra> pitti, why not xserver-xorg's postinst like we do in the liveCD and ltsp ? 
[04:03] <mvo> pitti: maybe we could add a warning or something that customization gets lost?
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[04:03] <ogra> that should preseed some settings before running dexconf ... so its less likely you break existing configs
[04:03] <pitti> ogra: I don't know; I just started looking at all of this mess a few days ago
[04:04] <Seveas> Mithrandir, http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors-x.patch http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors-e.patch - patches for xubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-artwork. The edubuntu one also fixes a broken pulsating progressbar
[04:04] <pitti> ogra: the postinst doesn't use dexconf? why do we have that then?
[04:04] <mvo> pitti: desktop-effects does not work with ati, correct? I just get a mesage about composition not enabled
[04:04] <ogra> pitti, the postinst uses dexconf after setting preseed values
[04:04] <pitti> mvo: right
[04:04] <mvo> thanks
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[04:04] <pitti> ogra: so these should already be in debconf db, no?
[04:04] <ogra> there is a lot of hardcoded stuff as well as debconf values that get preseeded
[04:04] <pitti> mvo: desktop-effects will not offer to install fgrlx, just nvidia
[04:05] <ogra> pitti, right
[04:05] <ogra> but using that seems less likely to break existing stuff
[04:05] <ogra> indeed it doesnt guarantee that manually tweaked configs stay as they are
[04:06] <ogra> but at least the debconf values should be safe
[04:07] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: whoa. I just reproduced one of the major remaining causes of ubiquity crashes, I think
[04:07] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: how does http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10489/ grab you?
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[04:10] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'm still working on proving that flock() returning EINTR was what caused it to crash for me, but it makes a lot of sense
[04:11] <pitti> Chipzz: http://trac.galago-project.org/ticket/121 was an Ubuntu specific bug that has recently been fixed, btw
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[04:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportNotifyPython
[04:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll promote it 
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[04:22] <pitti> ogra: you mean 'DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' would be better than calling dexconf directly?
[04:22] <ogra> pitti, i think so ... 
[04:23] <ogra> im not aware that we use plain dexconf anywhere in the distro
[04:23] <pitti> Keybuk: do you still remember why you call dexconf directly instead of dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg?
[04:23] <pitti> Keybuk: (in restricted-manager)
[04:23] <Keybuk> pitti: because the latter outputs a whole bunch of stuff to stdout, and maybe asks debconf questions, etc.
[04:24] <pitti> Keybuk: with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive?
[04:24] <ogra> Keybuk, you can quiten it
[04:24] <tepsipakki> or -phigh
[04:24] <pitti> it doesn't ask me anything with noninteractive, but that might just be me
[04:25] <Keybuk> pitti: it outputs stuff about md5sums changing
[04:26] <pitti> Keybuk: right; but *shrug*
[04:26] <Keybuk> and if they modified their xorg.conf, it does nothing
[04:26] <Keybuk> which would require more work from r-m :p
[04:26] <pitti> it happily clobbers my customized version
[04:27] <Keybuk> :D
[04:27] <Keybuk> I preferred that behaviour
[04:27] <Keybuk> I changed my X driver and my xorg.conf changed bugs => explainable
[04:27] <pitti> so after all it could be better to call that
[04:27] <Keybuk> I changed my X driver and nothing happened => harder to debug <g>
[04:27] <ogra> pitti, see configure_x http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-client.ltsp-client-setup.init
=== Keybuk didn't write Restricted Manager anyway
[04:28] <Keybuk> it was a different Keybuk
[04:28] <pitti> Keybuk: I can set stderr/out to subprocess.PIPE to quieten it, if that md5sum stuff annoys you
[04:28] <Keybuk> a lazier Keybuk
[04:28] <Keybuk> with 500 other annoying things that needed to be done that week too
[04:28] <Keybuk> <g>
[04:28] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, thanks
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=== mvo_ just lost his network while upgrading network-manager
=== ogra hands mvo_ a cable ... 
[04:45] <ogra> for a new start :)
[04:45] <mvo_> ogra: haha
[04:46] <mvo_> ogra: seriously, I'm not impressed
[04:46] <ogra> plant it in a pot and give it enough water :)
[04:46] <ogra> mvo_, static device ? 
[04:46] <mvo_> ogra: wireless network
[04:46] <ogra> ah
[04:47] <ogra> didnt happen to me yet ... wireless seems stable ... the only issues i had so far was NM shutting down my static server interface when starting wlan ...
[04:47] <mvo_> ogra: pretty nice as well :)
[04:47] <ogra> which meant being without dhcp and dns for my whole network as soon as i logged into my lappie
[04:48] <ogra> but that didnt happe since some time ... i assume its fixed
[04:48] <mvo_> *nod* 
[04:49] <mvo_> I did a big update today and while that was in progress the thing vanished and with it my network
[04:49] <ogra> evil
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[04:49] <mvo_> ogra: yep
=== mvo_ goes back to fixing bugs
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[04:50] <Keybuk> mvo_: something crashed maybe?
[04:50] <Keybuk> it tends to be gnome-power-manager that breaks for me on upgrades
[04:51] <mvo_> Keybuk: interessting, let me check
[04:52] <mjg59> Keybuk: Any chance you can look at 82680?
[04:52] <mjg59> The driver looks like it should be sending out events when the user inserts an SD card
[04:52] <mjg59> But udev doesn't seem to do anything with them
[04:53] <Keybuk> that's marked fix released?
=== mjg59 shrugs
[04:54] <mjg59> That seems incorrect
[04:54] <Keybuk> I almost certainly don't have time, I'm afraid; and certainly don't have the hardware
[04:54] <Keybuk> try one of the kernel team
[04:54] <mjg59> Well, it doesn't appear to be a kernel issue
[04:54] <mjg59> The event is generated - udev does nothing useful with it
[04:55] <Keybuk> what should udev do with it?
[04:55] <mjg59> Load tifm_sd
[04:55] <Keybuk> tifm_sd has no aliases
[04:55] <Keybuk> so it won't be automatically loaded
[04:55] <mjg59> What sort of aliases should it have?
[04:55] <Keybuk> it either needs some kind of subsystem:wildcard alias which matches devices exposed from sysfs
[04:56] <Keybuk> or udev needs something added to 90-modprobe.rules to load it for a particular event
[04:58] <mjg59> Ok
[04:58] <mjg59> I'll figure out exactly what's being exposed and get back to you
[04:58] <kylem> mjg59, related to: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/65042?
[04:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65042 in udev "SD/MMC Card Reader not working (worked in Dapper) - not all modules loaded" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[04:58] <mjg59> Yeah
[04:58] <mjg59> Dupe
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[05:00] <Keybuk> generally speaking
[05:00] <Keybuk> udev automatically loads a module if the module exports an alias, and the device exports a MODALIAS string
[05:00] <Keybuk> and they fnmatch
[05:01] <Keybuk> we also have a bunch of manual loading rules for "this type of device and this module" for where a modalias isn't possible/feasible/easy
[05:01] <Keybuk> e.g. we have one that looks in /proc/ide for the device type and loads the appropriate ide module
[05:01] <Keybuk> because it's easier than dealing with the ide subsytem maintainer, or patching the ide subsystem :p
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[05:06] <Riddell> pitti: your r-m .deb seems to fix the PCI issue for me
[05:06] <pitti> Riddell: yay
[05:07] <pitti> Riddell: I'll wait for jdong's confirmation as well
[05:07] <pitti> Riddell: thanks for testing
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[05:08] <ogra> pitti, i can test as soon as i'm done with the edubuntu-artwork package (around meeting time)
[05:09] <pitti> ogra: that would be nice
[05:09] <pitti> ogra: new deb is attached to bug 91036
[05:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91036 in xorg "restricted-manager picks wrong BusID for video cards" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91036
[05:09] <ogra> but my card doesnt do any compiz stuff i can only test if fglrx is used
[05:09] <pitti> ogra: right, that should be fine
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[05:27] <czester> Hello. Anyone familiar to suspend feature?
[05:28] <czester> I need ubuntu not to lock screen after suspend/resume
[05:28] <czester> Is this possible? I use KDE
[05:29] <jrib> czester: this channel isn't really for support
[05:29] <czester> Yes, I know that
[05:29] <jrib> yet you ask a support question :)
[05:29] <czester> I want to turn off screen locking after suspend
[05:29] <czester> tried /etc/default/acpi-support but it doesn't work
[05:30] <jrib> czester: you are more likely to get help in #ubuntu is what I am telling you
[05:30] <czester> There is more that 1k people 
[05:30] <dholbach> Mithrandir: can you give back gnome-games?
[05:30] <czester> ;-)
[05:30] <LaserJock> czester: actually, you'd want #kubuntu
[05:31] <czester> I'm there 
[05:31] <LaserJock> czester: that is one of the few things where I know Gnome has a conf setting for it but haven't seen a KDE one for it
[05:31] <LaserJock> czester: but I'm sure it *has* to be somewhere
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[05:31] <czester> Yes, I sure about that too ;-) 
[05:32] <czester> Or maybe I just *damage* kde locking app ;DD
[05:32] <czester> It should work ;-)
[05:33] <jrib> heh, that would be one way
[05:33] <czester> I have a clue
[05:34] <czester> dcop kdesktop KScreensaverIface
[05:35] <czester> I've installed ubuntu after 3 years of using gentoo ;-)
[05:35] <czester> Everything seems to be so nice and easy ;-)
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[05:39] <ogra> ugh
[05:39] <ogra> what replaces usplash-dev ? 
[05:39] <cjwatson> libusplash-dev
[05:39] <ogra> thanks
[05:39] <ogra> Seveas, you changed colors in usplash ? 
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[05:40] <Seveas> ogra, the hex values were bogus (and out-of-pallette-range in many cases) and copied from bogus values in the usplash theme
[05:40] <ogra> so what do i need to do for edubuntu ? 
[05:40] <Seveas> ogra, I prepared an edubuntu patch as well
[05:40] <ogra> where ? 
[05:41] <Seveas> (which also fixes a broken progressbar)
[05:41] <Seveas> Mithrandir, http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors-x.patch http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors-e.patch - patches for xubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-artwork. The edubuntu one also fixes a broken pulsating progressbar
[05:41] <Seveas> (there)
[05:41] <ogra> our current progressbar is fine ...
[05:41] <Riddell> czester: untick the tickbox in guidance-power-manager in feisty
[05:41] <ogra> whats broken there ? 
[05:41] <Seveas> ogra, the pulsating part was busted
[05:41] <ogra> ah, right ... that piece on the liveCD i always ignore :P
[05:41] <Seveas> covered only roughly 2/3 of the bar
[05:42] <Seveas> for feisty+1 I hope to redo some drawing code and remove the flicker
[05:42] <czester> Riddell: I use edgy.
[05:42] <Seveas> planned that for feisty, but time didn't permit me to do so
[05:42] <czester> Riddell: Besides: This is not a laptop, quitting ...
[05:42] <ogra> Seveas, you wouldnt belive how much i *planned* for feisty ... 
[05:42] <Seveas> ogra, heh :)
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[05:43] <ogra> but i ended up with only three of 8 specs implemented :(
[05:43] <ogra> my worst release evar
[05:43] <Seveas> ouch
[05:43] <ogra> well, next time will get better and i hopefully will have someone to share some work on edubuntu by then 
[05:44] <ogra> finally
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[05:48] <czester> Bye
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[05:49] <ogra> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main yelp 2.16.2-1ubuntu8                                                                                
[05:49] <ogra>   404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.89.6 80] 
[05:50] <ogra> how weird ... why does my -artwork package try to get yelp 2.16 ? 
[05:50] <ogra> there is no dep or something
[05:52] <mvo_> pitti: what is the name of the apport qt/kde frontend package?
[05:52] <pitti> mvo_: apport-qt
[05:52] <pitti> (I know, hideously misnamed :) )
[05:53] <mvo_> pitti: heh :) something eat my /var/lib/apt/lists/ (probably me) that is why apt-cache did not found it. but thanks for bearing with such obvious questions
=== pitti hugs mvo_, kein Problem
=== mvo_ hugs pitti back
[05:55] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: can I upload the changes in http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubiquity/trunk/changes from r1947?
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[06:03] <ogra> grmbl ...
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[06:44] <bdmurray> pitti: I 'm getting a memory error with apport retrace on one firefox bug in particular
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[06:46] <ogra> pitti, did you already use 2.6.20-10-powerpc ? i just heard its not booting ...
[06:47] <ogra> (didnt try myself yet)
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[06:59] <pitti> ogra: no, didn't try it yet
[06:59] <pitti> bdmurray: get more memory then :)
=== pitti -> back to cooking dinner
[06:59] <bdmurray> heh
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[07:08] <gnomefreak> bdmurray: what bug#?
[07:08] <bdmurray> pitti: checking
[07:09] <bdmurray> 88035 I believe
[07:09] <gnomefreak> ty
[07:12] <gnomefreak> ick another 64bit
[07:12] <gnomefreak> i assigned it to asac for now incase you cant get it
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[07:14] <bdmurray> gnomefreak: apport-retrace just dies on me when I try to retrace that bug
[07:14] <gnomefreak> no warnings?
[07:15] <bdmurray> I believe it complained about being out of memory in the gzip python module
[07:15] <gnomefreak> thats a new errror/warning for me
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[07:17] <gnomefreak> i cant do 64bit retraces yet
[07:17] <gnomefreak> i have one or two i can play with to see if i get it. maybe ill try the 64bit one anyway just to see if i get it
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[07:20] <dholbach> Mithrandir: please wave through the gnome-phone-manager/gnome-bluetooth uploads - that way we can drop libopenobex1 (and use libopenobex everywhere instead)
[07:20] <czester> One of the operators on #ubuntu is abusing users
[07:20] <czester> ;-)
[07:20] <czester> PriceChild: 
[07:20] <czester> He banned user just because he's from poland
[07:21] <czester> And there is ban on #ubuntu for 90% of polish users
[07:21] <czester> Why?
[07:21] <dholbach> czester: better to ask PriceChild than in this channel
[07:21] <czester> *!*@*.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl affects massive number of polish users
[07:21] <czester> dholbach: I did, he banned me
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[07:22] <dholbach> i think there is #ubuntu-ops
[07:22] <czester> Well I belive he has some power there too.
[07:22] <gnomefreak> there is
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[07:23] <czester> jacekowski did nothink and he was banned
[07:23] <dholbach> that's more appropriate there
[07:23] <dholbach> please move to #ubuntu-ops
[07:23] <PriceChild> czester, #ubuntu-ops please
[07:23] <czester> ok
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[07:36] <ogra> seeeeb !
[07:37] <ogra> grmbl
[07:37] <PriceChild> Sorry about those two users spilling over into this channel.
[07:38] <ogra> dholbach, any idea why gdm allows you to kill yourself with /etc/init.d/gdm restart ? it used to queue that until logout
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[07:38] <dholbach> ogra: I don't think it ever did that
=== ogra just trashed his work of the last hours
[07:39] <dholbach> I can't remember a time, when that was the behaviour
[07:39] <ogra> dholbach, it used to say something "not restarting gdm, waiting until all sessions ended"
[07:39] <ogra> or similar
[07:39] <dholbach> no, that's just when you update the package
[07:39] <ogra> meh 
[07:39] <dholbach> or update language-packs
[07:39] <ogra> right 
=== ogra shouldnt do serious work with only 2h of sleep ... but then artwork is no serious work :P
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[07:46] <tepsipakki> ogra: thats 'reload' ;)
[07:46] <ogra> tepsipakki, argh, silly me indeed !
[07:47] <tepsipakki> hehe
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[07:49] <Moniker42> hey, i was wondering if anyone else has been getting this bug
[07:49] <Moniker42> firefox doesn't seem to be displaying the ubuntu homepage right
[07:49] <Moniker42> it's just this bright orange messy thing, nothing like the nice clean thing i was on yesterday...
[07:50] <Moniker42> so has anyone else been experiencing this bug?
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[08:03] <Keybuk> Moniker42: the home page just changed; try holding down shift and click reload
[08:03] <Seiya> Moniker42:Displays properly for me.
[08:04] <Moniker42> it's still horrible and orange
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[08:06] <tepsipakki> oooh, shiny new page
[08:07] <Seiya> Does is display correctly in any other browsers you have access to?
[08:08] <Moniker42> hmph.... thinly veiled dig at the new website
[08:08] <Moniker42> i'm obviously being too subtle ;)
[08:10] <Moniker42> it's a horrible shade of orange... and the navigation makes even less sense than the old site
[08:10] <Moniker42> which was a little weird but decent.
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[08:11] <ogra> its darn slow here 
[08:15] <Seiya> Ahh. I missed this. My english is not perfect. :)
[08:16] <Moniker42> Seiya, no problem lol, you could have pretended you knew all along and were just playing along ;)
[08:17] <Seiya> Heh
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[08:20] <Moniker42> i think i'm defending my position on the website fairly well...
[08:20] <Moniker42> <adamant1988> I have to say.. the new design is a LOT more friendly than the last one
[08:20] <Moniker42> <Moniker42> it is? i'd say it's a LOT more colour-blind friendly.
[08:20] <Moniker42> <Moniker42> i.e. people that can't see anything but particularly bright shades of orange.
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[08:53] <asac> pitti: is ppc retracing on davis known to be broken?
[08:54] <pitti> asac: well, not really, but I should really upgrade it to the latest infrastructure
[08:54] <asac> pitti: hmmm i get some dpkg errors when running
[08:54] <asac> pitti: and of course no useful results ... no matter what bug
[08:55] <asac> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10509/
[08:55] <asac> thats in between of WARNING: ...
[08:56] <asac> pitti: here with a bit more context: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10510/
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[08:57] <pitti> asac: whoops
[08:58] <pitti> asac: let me just tear this down and set up a fresh one
[08:58] <pitti> asac: the ones on ronne work pretty good now
[08:58] <asac> pitti: please :)
[08:59] <asac> pitti: if i need to rm -rf something, let me know :)
[09:00] <pitti> asac: no, rm -rf worked fine
=== pitti sets up the new stuff
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[09:03] <BenC> pitti: Are you on archive NEW duty today?
[09:03] <pitti> BenC: tomorrow, but if you quickly need something, I can do it right now
[09:03] <pitti> BenC: shall I wave through the new kernels?
[09:03] <BenC> pitti: I need latest linux-source-2.6.20 processed...it's built
[09:04] <BenC> pitti: yes, please :)
[09:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^ just checking, ok to get 2.6.20-11 into feisty right now?
[09:05] <ogra> please !
[09:05] <ogra> it will fix my broadcom 
[09:05] <pitti> asac: done
[09:05] <BenC> pitti: He already approved it, and the lrm/linux-meta behind it
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[09:05] <pitti> asac: hmm, 3:30 minutes to setup a complete retracing environment from scratch ;)
[09:05] <pitti> BenC: alright
[09:06] <asac> pitti: well done
[09:06] <pitti> asac: please don't redirect stdin any more
[09:06] <BenC> pitti: thanks very much
[09:06] <pitti> asac: it will now display the traces, ask for confirmation, and attach them back to the bug
[09:06] <BenC> I need to get out a -11.19 with two important fixes, but I need abi/module listings from the current build
[09:06] <asac> pitti: ok ... lets try this innovation :)
[09:06] <pitti> asac: please, I didn't test the new instance yet
[09:07] <pitti> BenC: done; too bad that we just missed a cron.daily
[09:08] <asac> pitti: i am fine to be the front
[09:08] <pitti> asac: I'm standing by with my shell and vi arsenal to fix things up behind you :)
[09:09] <asac> ;)
[09:09] <asac> thats why its so slow :) ... its pitti-driven :)
[09:09] <pitti> asac: but according to ps aux things grind away happily ATM
[09:09] <pitti> asac: *cough*
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[09:09] <pitti> asac: I have some ideas how to speed it up, but that requires some heavy code and time
[09:09] <pitti> it's rough, but it kind of works at least
[09:10] <asac> pitti: no thats no problem
[09:10] <pitti> asac: hm, processes finished - that was a bit too quick?
[09:10] <asac> maybe ... a semi-good-backtrace
[09:10] <pitti> oh, so it worked?
[09:10] <asac> it has: Backtrace stopped: frame did not save the PC
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[09:10] <asac> but some symbols came out of it
[09:10] <asac> yes ... so probably worked
[09:10] <pitti> asac: hmm
[09:11] <asac> we often get that
[09:11] <pitti> asac: did you see version mismatches?
[09:11] <asac> WARNING: ... ?
[09:11] <pitti> asac: and did the confirmation/bug attaching work?
[09:11] <asac> let me see
[09:11] <asac> i was asked to
[09:11] <asac> did answer y
[09:11] <asac> so
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[09:11] <pitti> asac: yes, those; 'bug needs version 1, but version 2 is available'
[09:11] <asac> yeah attaching worked:
[09:12] <asac> http://librarian.launchpad.net/6836565/%3Cfdopen%3E
[09:12] <pitti> asac: hm, maybe it helps to build ffox with -fno-omit-frame-pointer or so?
[09:12] <pitti> asac: ouch, I should fix the attachment file names :)
[09:12] <asac> hehe
[09:13] <asac> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10512/
[09:13] <asac> this is some output
[09:13] <asac> but i have never seen a retrace go through without such warnings
[09:14] <pitti> asac: well, that doesn't look too bad?
[09:14] <asac> the trace or the warnings?
[09:14] <Adri2000> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/pool/main/t/tk8.4/ any reason for that -0ubuntu2 ddebs are only powerpc and sparc?
[09:14] <pitti> asac: trace
[09:14] <pitti> Adri2000: ugh, no, I don't
[09:15] <pitti> Adri2000: if these were built in the last 7 days, I might be able to recover them
[09:15] <asac> pitti: some are worse ... but I saw traces with this frame pointer warning which looked pretty different when properly retraced.
[09:15] <pitti> asac: '/usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so.0.0.0 was loaded at runtime, but is not available'
[09:15] <pitti> asac: ^ for those I already have an idea
[09:15] <asac> maybe fno-omit-frame-pointer might help though
[09:15] <Adri2000> pitti: 7 Jan 2007 :/
[09:15] <pitti> asac: if/when we have a reasonably up-to-date Contents.gz, I could use that to find the matching packages and install them
[09:16] <asac> yes
[09:16] <pitti> asac: those refer to libraries which appear in /proc/pid/maps, but aren't covered by dependencies
[09:16] <asac> does it work practically?
[09:16] <pitti> asac: usually plugins loaded at runtime and such
[09:16] <pitti> asac: I'm not sure whether we keep Contents.gz up to date; we didnt' build it in the past, but that might have changed
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[09:16] <pitti> asac: if we do, then it's a SMOP from my side
[09:17] <pochu> Adri2000: debugging amsn? ;)
[09:17] <pitti> asac: I have tons of ideas how to make this stuff work better, but it's not on my current official assignment list, so I can't spend to much time on it
[09:17] <Adri2000> pochu: yep, trying :p
[09:17] <asac> pitti: sure
[09:18] <asac>  pitti anyway can we keep old versions of dbgsym packages at least?
[09:18] <pitti> asac: for 14 days now
[09:18] <pitti> asac: however, it just comes into my mind that they won't appear in Packages.gz, so apt-get won't be able to install them (and apport-retrace doesn't try either)
[09:19] <asac> pitti: i do most crash work in feisty and asking to reproduce is not an option as most are not easily reproducible :)
[09:19] <pitti> so older traces have to be retraced with manual love
[09:19] <asac> pitti: how? is there a thing like "feisty archive" where i can find old sources>?
[09:19] <pitti> asac: my current project is an automatic retracing service, that should help a bit against outdated bugs
[09:19] <asac> pitti: yeah :)
[09:19] <pitti> asac: no, only from the ddebs, not from the archive debs
[09:20] <asac> pitti: so how can you retrace them with manual love :)
[09:20] <pitti> asac: if you have the old debs, dpkg -i the matching ddebs
[09:20] <asac> yeah ... ok :)
[09:20] <pitti> but it's a PITA
[09:20] <asac> first you need the debs
[09:20] <asac> second you won't have debug symbols without sources :/
[09:21] <pitti> you don't need the matching sources
[09:21] <pitti> just the debs
[09:21] <asac> you mean the -dbg.deb files?
[09:21] <pitti> -dbgsym.ddeb
[09:21] <pitti> and the actual package .debs
[09:21] <asac> sure ... ok
[09:21] <asac> i assumed that the -dbgsym packages are gone
[09:22] <pitti> asac: those are kept for 14 days after a new version appears
[09:22] <pitti> but they aren't actually useful ATM
[09:22] <pitti> needs more code .... needs even more code ...
[09:23] <asac> yes i see :)
[09:23] <asac> hope it will be automatic soon ... then such things should disappear
[09:23] <asac> of course not, if user is not up-to-date
[09:23] <pitti> dholbach: if I want to add something to p-lp-bugs (such as tag editing), should I rather branch from bughelper.main or bughelper.0.1?
[09:24] <pitti> asac: right, we can't handle old user installations
[09:24] <dholbach> .main is 0.2 -> feisty+1
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[09:24] <pitti> asac: but for stables that shouldn't matter so much, and for feisty we can just say 'upgrade to latest packages'
[09:24] <dholbach> pitti: ^
[09:24] <pitti> dholbach: read it, thanks
=== dholbach hugs pitti
[09:24] <pitti> asac: i. e. for a ffox crash, if ffox itself is outdated, we can just ask the user to upgrade
[09:25] <asac> pitti: yes ... the shame is that i need lots of traces
[09:25] <pitti> asac: and if just some gtk library is out of date for a ffox crash, it shouldn't make the traceback much worse
[09:25] <asac> pitti: and users won't be able to reproduce
[09:25] <asac> so at best i could retrace every crash report.
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[09:25] <asac> but as you said ... once automatic reports are there, old reports will only come for a few days ... so no problem for ffox
[09:26] <asac> actually pretty happy to have crash reports at all :)
[09:26] <_ion> http://librarian.launchpad.net/6836446/vte_0.16.0-0ubuntu3.debdiff seems to fix bug #89524, whee.
[09:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89524 in vte "[apport]  GNOME Terminal Unicode SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89524
[09:26] <pitti> right, I think it came a long way compared to what we had in dapper
[09:26] <asac> gives me a damn good understanding of stability ... and what crashes happen how often
[09:27] <tsmithe> pitti, could i poke you about a couple of NEW packages for your duty tomorrow? (i'm sorry to pester)
[09:27] <pitti> tsmithe: I'll do all binary NEWs, and some source NEWs in FIFO order
[09:27] <tsmithe> excellent
[09:27] <tsmithe> thanks :)
[09:28] <pitti> tsmithe: anything that's particularly feisty/beta important/
[09:28] <tsmithe> (these are source NEWs)
[09:28] <pitti> ?
[09:28] <tsmithe> yea - wired and enblend
[09:28] <tsmithe> i've spoken to seb128, but he said he wanted another ack/someone else to do the processing
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=== ogra is going mad .... 4th attempt to uplaod edubuntu-artwork (6MB) the last three i stopped after 20-30min ...
[10:04] <dholbach> ogra: upload it to chinstrap (maybe with trickle and an upstream limitation) and from there to upload.u.c
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[10:04] <ogra> dholbach, i cant get it off the laptop ad have no second PC around 
[10:05] <ogra> only way is the wlan card 
[10:05] <dholbach> why don't you upload it to chinstrap from there?
[10:05] <ogra> which obviously doesnt work 
[10:05] <ogra> from where ?
[10:05] <dholbach> the laptop?
[10:05] <ogra> everything i try to get over the broadcom card thats bigger than 100k just dies
=== ogra groans in anger
[10:06] <dholbach> don't you have an usb key or a cross cable or something?
[10:06] <ogra> yes, and then ? 
[10:06] <ogra> auswringen in  den telefonhoerer ? 
[10:07] <ogra> i only have my laptop here ... no other computers near me
[10:07] <ogra> no wired network ... no cable
[10:07] <jdong> ogra: tried swapping out hard drives?
[10:07] <ogra> but a package i spent my whole day on ...
[10:07] <jdong> if it's IDE you can also assemble a makeshift dual-port cable
[10:07] <Burgwork> ogra: rar, if you have it installed, you can split it up
[10:07] <ogra> jdong, swapping with what ? 
[10:07] <jdong> ogra: what are you transferring to?
[10:07] <Fujitsu> Burgwork: split can also split files, and it's free.
[10:08] <jdong> ogra: tried split?
[10:08] <Burgwork> true
[10:08] <ogra> jdong, my laptop to upload.ubuntu.com
[10:08] <jdong> ogra: ah, ok... yikes :-/
[10:08] <Fujitsu> ogra: Your laptop to chinstrap.
[10:08] <ogra> oh wait, this time it finished ... !!!
[10:08] <ogra> sigh, it still took 30 min ... for shitty 6MB
[10:09] <ogra> i want a proper broadcom driver !!!
[10:09] <ogra> intrestingly only upstream is slow ... down its fast as expected
[10:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: 2.6.20-11> yes, that's ok.
[10:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, my edubuntu-artwork is up and waiting for your approval :)
[10:14] <jdong> seb128: why was the LD_PRELOAD workaround for Xgl dropped from /usr/bin/compiz?
[10:15] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ubiquity bits> approved
[10:15] <LaserJock> seb128: bug #92648
[10:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92648 in gnome-panel "no menu item for About Edubuntu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92648
[10:16] <seb128> LaserJock: thank you
[10:16] <seb128> jdong: dunno, we synced the package on Debian
[10:16] <jdong> seb128: :( would you object to bringing it back? 
=== RadiantFire [n=ryan@c-69-180-43-27.hsd1.ga.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:17] <seb128> jdong: no
[10:17] <seb128> jdong: and why ":(", bug happens
[10:17] <jdong> seb128: ok, I thought it was dropped for Xgl political reasons
[10:17] <ogra> well
[10:17] <pitti> hi jdong 
[10:17] <jdong> hi pitti
[10:17] <ogra> LD_PRELOAD is generally evil
[10:17] <seb128> jdong: I don't care about Xgl but I would not drop patches if they were useful ;)
[10:17] <pitti> jdong: testing new restricted-manager crack would be highly appreciated (for that pci id stuff)
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[10:18] <seb128> jdong: I just have no idea about it and I don't want to start working on it, I've enough to do already
[10:18] <jdong> seb128: ok let me find the workaround and investigate it a bit more, then maybe bug you with a patch
[10:18] <seb128> k
[10:18] <jdong> pitti: ok, I filed that bug on behalf of a friend, let me get him in here
[10:19] <adamant1988> Hello
[10:19] <Mithrandir> dholbach: gnome-games given-back.
[10:19] <jdong> pitti: adamant1988
[10:19] <pitti> jdong: that would be splendid
[10:19] <pitti> adamant1988: hello
[10:19] <adamant1988> pitti: hello :)
[10:19] <dholbach> gracias Mithrandir
[10:20] <pitti> adamant1988: I attached a new restricted-manager package to bug 91036
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91036 in xorg "restricted-manager picks wrong BusID for video cards" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91036
[10:21] <adamant1988> pitti: yes?
[10:21] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: flock> that'd make sense, yes.
[10:21] <pitti> adamant1988: could you install that and check whether restricted-manager now does the right thing?
[10:21] <adamant1988> Oh dear.. I'm gonna cry if this breaks again lol
[10:21] <adamant1988> But OK
[10:21] <jdong> adamant1988: make backup of xorg.conf to xorg.conf.back
[10:21] <pitti> adamant1988: i. e. not break xorg.conf and X any more when you enable the ATI fglrx driver?
[10:21] <jdong> that way you can always get back
[10:21] <adamant1988> jdong: got it
[10:21] <pitti> adamant1988: don't worry, r-m creates backups of xorg.conf on its own
[10:22] <adamant1988> pitti: That's pretty nifty then
[10:22] <pitti> adamant1988: you just need to know how to login to a text console and move files around with sudo
[10:22] <adamant1988> pitti: I can do that
[10:22] <pitti> adamant1988: if you have IRC on a separate box, I can walk you through it if necessary
[10:22] <pitti> adamant1988: thank you very much!
[10:22] <adamant1988> Where do I get this at?
[10:22] <jdong> adamant1988: it's on the bug report
[10:22] <jdong> attachment
[10:22] <pitti> adamant1988: I have confirmation from someone else that it fixes the issue, but I'd like to get it from the other reporters as well before I claim this fixed
=== pitti -> back to meeting
[10:23] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: turns out the bug I was encountering wasn't that, so it's just speculation that that might be what's causing other failures
[10:23] <adamant1988> Ok, so I download "working patch"?
[10:23] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: any opinions as to whether I should upload it pre-beta anyway?
[10:24] <ogra> asac, is there a reason wny my FF always starts the about page and the firefox homepage in session recovery mode ? 
[10:24] <asac> yeah ... you probably don't close ff
[10:24] <asac> at the end
[10:24] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: worst-case, it looks harmless.
[10:24] <asac> thats why the property that indicates that you are *not* running old version is not persisted
[10:24] <adamant1988> nevermind I got it
[10:24] <asac> i will remove this milestone feature again
[10:25] <ogra> asac, no i never close it ... i developed a habit of keeping tabs instead of bookmarks :)
[10:25] <asac> yes :)
[10:25] <asac> so its sane
[10:25] <asac> you can edit
[10:25] <asac> about:config
[10:25] <ogra> ah
[10:25] <asac> search 'mstone'
[10:25] <asac> set that to ignore
[10:25] <ogra> ok
[10:25] <adamant1988> pitti: What do you want me to do with it?
[10:25] <asac> ogra: haha
[10:25] <adamant1988> disable and then re-enable my driver?
[10:25] <ogra> asac, thanks :)
[10:25] <asac> won't safe 
[10:25] <pitti> adamant1988: right
[10:25] <asac> close it once :)
[10:25] <asac> ogra: or edit prefs.js
[10:26] <pitti> adamant1988: btw, clicking on the deb gave gdebi to you, the graphical installer?
[10:26] <adamant1988> pitti: yes
[10:26] <adamant1988> ok says I need a system restart
[10:27] <adamant1988> not really sure why.. I haven't downloaded anything and the fglrx is still installing, hehe
[10:28] <seb128> grrr bugs flood, received like 60 bug mails between 6pm and 10pm
[10:28] <adamant1988> ok brb pitti 
[10:28] <adamant1988> hopefully
[10:28] <pitti> adamant1988: good luck!
[10:29] <tepsipakki> seb128: hopefully most of them were bugs that I closed :)
[10:29] <tepsipakki> (not even close)
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: Instant Karma!
[10:30] <seb128> tepsipakki: not quite, after marking as read all the things I don't need to comment on I still have 30 new bugs or comments which need a reply :/
[10:30] <LaserJock> pitti: like he needs any more ;-)
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: rather another short night if I want to keep that under 100 :/
[10:30] <pitti> LaserJock: he wants to get back to K10M with the current counting :)
[10:30] <LaserJock> lol
[10:30] <Fujitsu> That'd take a while.
=== pitti hugs seb128 
[10:31] <seb128> pitti: I'm happy to let you take some of the desktop bugs karma if you want ;)
=== seb128 hugs pitti back
[10:31] <LaserJock> probably will take seb128 at least Feisty+1 to get there
[10:31] <seb128> at least your retracing make getting debug backtraces easy
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[10:31] <pitti> seb128: hm, lp.net/~apport didn't collect a single Karma point yet :(
[10:33] <ogra> pitti, karma is overrated, its so inflational that it doesnt really matter :)
[10:33] <Keybuk> ogra: it's fixed to not be, now
[10:34] <Fujitsu> pitti: Is the auto-retracing waiting on anything more than being able to specify tags in uploaded blobs?
[10:34] <ogra> Keybuk, until it gets fixed the next time ? :)
[10:34] <pitti> Fujitsu: well, me completing the malone scraping engine
[10:34] <pitti> Fujitsu: I actually have that ready
[10:35] <pitti> Fujitsu: just need the python-launchpad-bugs addition to mangle tags
=== adamant1988 [n=chatzill@doc-24-206-202-2.el.wv.cebridge.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:35] <pitti> adamant1988: welcome back!
[10:35] <adamant1988> pitti: Nope, It can't seem to re-enable the driver
[10:35] <adamant1988> First off it uninstalled fglrx, when I told it to "activate" it again, it doesn't even make an attempt
[10:36] <pitti> adamant1988: what does it do?
[10:36] <adamant1988> uno momento, let me run it from bash so I have a log
[10:36] <jdong> seb128: http://web.mit.edu/~jdong/www/compiz-xgl.debdiff
[10:36] <pitti> adamant1988: hm, there won't be much logging
[10:36] <ogra> pitti, did you thnk about stealing the code from the fglrx-config package ? 
[10:36] <jdong> seb128: that makes compiz work on Xgl again
[10:36] <seb128> jdong: could you open a bug on launchpad rather?
[10:36] <jdong> seb128: ok, will do
[10:36] <pitti> ogra: I'll have another look at it
[10:36] <seb128> thank you
[10:36] <ogra> might be easier
[10:37] <adamant1988> pitti: xserver-xorg postinst warning: overwriting possibly-customised configuration
[10:37] <adamant1988>    file; backup in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.20070315173647
[10:37] <pitti> adamant1988: that's fine
[10:37] <adamant1988> except it's not doing anything
[10:37] <adamant1988> it's not downloading or installing fglrx
[10:37] <pitti> hmm
[10:38] <pitti> adamant1988: what does 'grep fgl /etc/X11/xorg.conf' say now?
[10:38] <adamant1988> pitti: uno momento
[10:38] <pitti> adamant1988: and is the driver shown as enabled?
[10:38] <adamant1988> pitti: No.
[10:38] <jdong> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/92657
[10:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92657 in compiz "Set xlibmesa LD_PRELOAD when Xgl is present" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:38] <adamant1988> I try to re-enable it and it pulls up a screen asking me to enable it.  Then when I say "OK" it does nothing
[10:39] <adamant1988> the grep fgl is empty too.
[10:39] <seb128> jdong: k
[10:39] <pitti> adamant1988: will you still be online for a bit? I'd like to debug this with you after my meeting if you can afford some minutes?
[10:39] <adamant1988> pitti: sure, I'd kind of like my fglrx back.
[10:39] <adamant1988> Since it uninstalled the package I'm assuming that I won't be able to use my old xorg.conf anyway
[10:40] <jdong> adamant1988: sudo apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx
[10:40] <jdong> I'm not sure if RM does any more blacklisting though
[10:40] <adamant1988> jdong: I'll just wait for him, so I can help him bug-fix it.
[10:40] <jdong> sounds good
[10:40] <adamant1988> part of that contributing thing, haha
[10:41] <pitti> adamant1988: ok, can you please put your current xorg.conf into a pastebin?
[10:41] <adamant1988> pitti: sure
[10:42] <adamant1988> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10522/
[10:43] <pitti> adamant1988: 'lsmod | grep fgl' is empty?
[10:44] <pitti> adamant1988: and 'cat /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-restricted' shows fglrx?
=== shackan [n=shackan@85-18-14-13.fastres.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:44] <adamant1988> yes to the first
[10:44] <pitti> adamant1988: btw, let's do this in /msg to not spam other people
[10:44] <adamant1988> cat: /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-restricted: No such file or directory
[10:45] <ogra> pitti, oh, i forgot to file the bug for you about the /etc/modprobe.d/fglrx file you wanted to fix ... might be the same issue
[10:45] <ogra> adamant1988, do you have such a file ? 
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[10:46] <adamant1988> ogra: Hrmm? 
[10:46] <jdong> adamant1988: that's polite-speak for "get outta my channel" ;-)
[10:46] <ogra> adamant1988, /etc/modprobe.d/fglrx
[10:46] <adamant1988> ogra: just a moment
[10:46] <cjwatson> Seveas: hope you're OK with me assigning bug 64408 to you based on what I understood from IRC earlier; trying to arrange assignees for more beta-targeted bugs
[10:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64408 in usplash ""Urgent" text is poorly readable due to low contrast (blue on black)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64408
[10:47] <Seveas> cjwatson, patches for all 4 themes (ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, xubuntu) are available. The kubuntu one has been applied and uploaded. The others are waiting for someone to upload
[10:48] <Seveas> cjwatson, I poked Mithrandir earlier and he said he'd review
[10:48] <cjwatson> righto
[10:49] <Seveas> but yeah, assigning to me is fine
[10:50] <Seveas> actually, the same bug *may* have caused segfaults especially in amd64 but I didn't take a close look at that yet and actually suspect this is not the case
[10:50] <dholbach> can somebody of the archive admins wave through gnome-bluetooth too? so we can kill openobex1.0?
[10:50] <dholbach> libopenobex1.0 that is
=== CarlFK [n=carl@c-24-13-53-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:53] <kwwii> dholbach: did you include the new session splash as well?
[10:53] <dholbach> no
[10:53] <ogra> :(
[10:54] <dholbach> i didn't realize you had pushed the changes already
[10:54] <kwwii> dholbach: !!! please do
=== ogra was already looking forward to see ubuntu-users explode 
[10:54] <dholbach> !!!
[10:54] <kwwii> dholbach: yeah, I did that at the same time as gdm today :-)
[10:54] <kwwii> sorry for the mixup
[10:54] <Chipzz> pitti: not sure why you pasted that url for me :)
[10:54] <ajmitch> ogra: oh, why would they explode this time?
[10:54] <dholbach> doing it
[10:54] <Chipzz> pitti: sure it wasn't meant for someone else? :)
[10:54] <pitti> Chipzz: oh, i thought you were chipx86 sleeping
[10:54] <cjwatson> dholbach: done
[10:54] <pitti> Chipzz: sorry
[10:54] <dholbach> cjwatson: thanks!
[10:55] <Chipzz> pitti: no problem :)
[10:55] <ogra> kwwii, your svg hacks to the gdm theme are extremely cool ... i used the ubuntu theme as base for the new edubuntu one ...
[10:55] <kwwii> ogra: thanks :-)
[10:55] <Chipzz> pitti: other people have assumed the same thing ;)
[10:55] <Chipzz> pitti: /whois chipzz ;)
[10:55] <pitti> Chipzz: right, no real name there :(
[10:56] <Chipzz> pitti: hrrrm you're right
[10:56] <kwwii> dholbach: that one is kinda important :D
[10:56] <Chipzz> but: 22:55 [OPN]  -!- Chipzz [i=chipzz@safehex.be] 
[10:56] <Chipzz> :)
[10:56] <Chipzz> pitti: anyway no harm done, and thx I guess :)
[10:57] <dholbach> kwwii: relax :-)
[10:57] <Chipzz> pitti: chip86 is on #gtk+ on irc.gimp.org I think
[10:58] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: about the -vesa upload; has this been tested?
[10:59] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you win the chance to write a MIR for pyopengl
[10:59] <dholbach> kwwii: updated, so you don't have to change setup.py any more, tested, pushed and uploaded
[10:59] <kwwii> dholbach: sweet, thanks :-)
[10:59] <Riddell> Mithrandir: or send qt-gl packages to universe?
=== dholbach is out for a beer - see you
[11:00] <kwwii> dholbach: enjoy, thanks for the help today
[11:00] <dholbach> no problem
[11:00] <Mithrandir> Riddell: for some reason, anastacia wants to bring them back in when I demote them
=== dholbach hugs kwwii
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[11:00] <dholbach> *wave*
[11:01] <cjwatson> oh, reminds me, I should fix the seeds not to keep pulling in lowlatency kernels
[11:02] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, please.
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[11:06] <Keybuk> http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/issues/detail?id=10&can=2&q=
[11:06] <cjwatson> mdz: I think I'll have to go back to the huge list of kernel packages in supported, unfortunately
[11:06] <Keybuk> heh
[11:06] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: doesn't the Exclude mechanism work there?
[11:06] <mdz> cjwatson: oh, why?
[11:07] <cjwatson> mdz: lowlatency shouldn't be in main
[11:07] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: no, that's only for stuff pulled in by Extra-Include, not by basic globbing
[11:07] <LaserJock> Keybuk: do you have to have a specific project in mind to mentor GSoC? or can you just be an available person?
[11:07] <cjwatson> oh, hmm, I wonder how intelligent germinate's regex matching is
[11:07] <Keybuk> LaserJock: available person, and pick and choose from the student applications available
[11:08] <LaserJock> Keybuk: is there a need for more mentors?
[11:08] <mdz> cjwatson: the re module supports (?!
[11:08] <mdz> yay for exponential time though, I expect
[11:08] <cjwatson> score
[11:08] <Keybuk> LaserJock: it depends how many good applications we get
[11:08] <cjwatson> who cares :)
[11:08] <cjwatson>         if pattern.startswith('/') and pattern.endswith('/'):
[11:08] <cjwatson>             patternre = re.compile(pattern[1:-1] )
[11:08] <cjwatson>             filtered = [p for p in packages if patternre.search(p) is not None] 
[11:08] <Keybuk> LaserJock: you can always sign up, and then not take on any students
[11:08] <LaserJock> Keybuk: ok, thanks for the info
[11:08] <Keybuk> (but you won't get a t-shirt :p)
[11:08] <LaserJock> doh!
[11:09] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok.  Do you have any idea why anastacia claims python-qt3-gl should be in main?  I feel useless trying to debug this.
[11:09] <LaserJock> I already got a Google t-shirt from Mt. View though
[11:09] <cjwatson> negative lookbehind would do it
[11:09] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: have you checked germinate rdepends already?
[11:09] <Mithrandir> LaserJock: the SoC t-shirts are different (and not generally available unless you're a student or mentor)
[11:09] <Laser_away> :-)
[11:10] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, and it doesn't make sense.
[11:10] <kylem> hawk 'em on ebay
[11:10] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/feisty/rdepends/ALL/python-qt3-gl
[11:10] <mdz> Mithrandir: I need 181946 approved; is that ok with you?
[11:10] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ok, so what's happening is that one of the other binaries in that source is in main, so Extra-Include: *-dbg matches the -dbg package, which then depends on python-qt3-gl
[11:10] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: this is what Extra-Exclude is there for
[11:10] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ah, ok
[11:11] <cjwatson> just say Extra-Exclude: python-qt3-gl-dbg somewhere in supported
[11:11] <cjwatson> probably Kubuntu supported, I'm guessing
[11:11] <Riddell> cjwatson: I'll add that now
[11:11] <cjwatson> thanks
[11:12] <Mithrandir> mdz: the setup.py looks like it has a syntax error.
[11:12] <Mithrandir> +    if match:
[11:12] <Mithrandir> +  version = match.group(1)
[11:12] <Mithrandir> that's not legal, is it?
=== Fujitsu thinks not.
[11:12] <mdz> depending on the indentation, it should be
[11:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: is there a script to do a debdiff based on the queue id?
[11:13] <Mithrandir> that's a c&p from the diff.
[11:13] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, but q fetch + mdebdiff is generally quite useful.
[11:13] <Mithrandir> mdebdiff -s $suite (defaults to feisty) blah.dsc
[11:13] <Mithrandir> (as lp_archive)
[11:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: there is a non-code change in there which needs to go in tonight, one way or another
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[11:13] <mdz> (de-phallifying the gnome splash)
[11:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: ah, point.
[11:14] <mdz> Mithrandir: that c&p just looks tab-mangled, I'll have a peek
[11:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: looks fine to me in non-IRC form
[11:15] <_ion> "de-phallify" is one of the most interesting words i've heard for a while.
[11:15] <mdz> but I'll do a test build to be sure
=== adamant1988 [n=chatzill@doc-24-206-202-2.el.wv.cebridge.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: hm, indeed it does.  It'll still fail to build since version won't be in scope at that point, though?
[11:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm fine with it as long as it builds, but it's getting close to midnight here and I'd like some sleep so if you could get it through, I'd appreciate that.
[11:16] <mdz> Mithrandir: somehow, it builds
[11:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, colour me confused.
[11:16] <cjwatson> version will be in scope
[11:16] <cjwatson> if blocks don't introduce a new scope
[11:16] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok
[11:17] <Mithrandir> mdz: accepted
[11:17] <cjwatson> it will break if version never gets assigned to
[11:17] <mdz> cjwatson: if it doesn't match, version won't be declared
[11:17] <cjwatson> mdz: right
[11:17] <mdz> but it does
[11:17] <cjwatson> and you'll get a NameError in that case
[11:17] <cjwatson> but that should be a NeverHappensError
[11:17] <mdz> right
[11:17] <mdz> dpkg-parsechangelog would probably barf too
[11:18] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
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[11:20] <cjwatson> hmm, I wish germinate had an "any binaries from this source matching this regex" feature
[11:20] <cjwatson> bit of a one-case feature though
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[11:44] <adamant1988> pitti: ping
[11:44] <pitti> adamant1988: hi
=== ulisse [n=ulisse@host180-122-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:44] <adamant1988> pitti: I have an issue.  Feisty has decided that my once great ATI Radeon X600 is now known as "generic video card"
[11:45] <ulisse> 'lo people
[11:45] <adamant1988> Which means that even with fglrx, I'm not getting any kind of meaningful acceleration, apparently..
[11:45] <pitti> adamant1988: where do you see that text?
[11:45] <adamant1988> it's in my xorg.conf
[11:46] <adamant1988> I can't open up the hardware info to check
[11:46] <adamant1988> it just crashes
[11:46] <pitti> adamant1988: you mean the 'Identifier' in the 'Section "Device"'?
[11:46] <adamant1988> uh huh
[11:46] <ulisse> does GNOME sets a BROWSER variable for the user? I was using openwengo and I noticed it was opening URLs in Opera instead of Firefox, that was my default browser...
[11:47] <pitti> adamant1988: that's usually not really important, as long as it's the same in section "Device" and "Screen"
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[11:47] <ulisse> I asked people on #openwengo and htey sayd that Wengophone uses portland to open files, so it checks for the BROWSER variable
[11:48] <adamant1988> pitti: ok, yeah it's the same in both
[11:48] <pitti> ulisse: Gnome has a gconf key for that
[11:48] <adamant1988> so why don't have I have 3d acceleration?
[11:48] <pitti> adamant1988: so as long as "Driver" uses fglrx, it should use that
[11:48] <ulisse> pitti: but is it set by the "preferred apps" dialog?
[11:48] <pitti> ulisse: this dialog sets that gconf key, right
[11:48] <ulisse> hmm...
[11:48] <pitti> adamant1988: module is loaded?
[11:48] <adamant1988> pitti: how do I check?
[11:48] <pitti> adamant1988: grep fgl /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[11:49] <adamant1988> I know I have it in my modules to load at startup
[11:49] <pitti> adamant1988: erm, scratch that
[11:49] <pitti> adamant1988: lsmod | grep fgl
[11:49] <ulisse> pitti: I'm sure that in the dialog there was "/usr/bin/firefox", but wengo still opened it with opera
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[11:49] <ulisse> pitti: I had to do "sudo update-alternatives --config x-www-browser" to make it change
[11:50] <pitti> ulisse: seems that portland doesn't respect the gconf key then
[11:51] <ulisse> pitti: is there a "global" BROWSER key, like a root one?
[11:51] <ulisse> what do I change with update-alternatives?
[11:51] <pitti> ulisse: there's a common environment variable, yes
[11:51] <pitti> ulisse: you change /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser with that
[11:52] <ulisse> pitti: now I wonder why opera stes itself as default in that var when you install it...
[11:52] <ulisse> it shouldn't
[11:52] <pitti> ulisse: I don't know; that's really #ubuntu material now
[11:53] <ulisse> ok, thanks for now ;)
[11:57] <ulisse> pitti: it seems that on #openwengo there is a guy that knows well portland, and it says that it looks for a VAR named BROWSER, not a gconf key...
[11:58] <pitti> ulisse: right, as I said, the $BROWSER environment variable
[11:58] <pitti> that's just not what Gnome uses for its default browser
[11:59] <ulisse> pitti: so $BROWSER is not necessarly the same as the BROWSER key in gconf, right?
[11:59] <pitti> ulisse: the gconf key is not called BROWSER, but yes
[11:59] <ulisse> and how a user could set that $BROWSER var?
[12:00] <pitti> . o O { #ubuntu! }
[12:00] <ulisse> ok, ok, sorry
[12:00] <pitti> ulisse: in /etc/environment (global) or ~/.bashrc
[12:00] <pitti> ulisse: but instead the portland guys should fix that component to respect the gnome setting, IMHO
[12:01] <ulisse> I think the same
[12:01] <ulisse> as I know GNOME but not portland
[12:01] <ulisse> and I know that GNOME is fo r usability :)
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[12:05] <khermans_> is this the proper place to discuss karma?
[12:06] <sistpoty> khermans_: I guess #launchpad might be better
[12:06] <sladen> khermans_: #launchpad maybe a better place
[12:06] <khermans_> thx