[12:22] <jussi01> hei all, are messages like this a problem when building a package under pbuilder? dpkg-gencontrol: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)
[12:22] <jussi01> or is that normal?
[12:23] <sistpoty> jussi01: these are pretty normal
[12:23] <imbrandon> thats no big deal
[12:23] <jussi01> ah, thanks
[12:30] <pochu> does debian/changelog already close LP bugs?
[12:30] <pochu> or isn't it implemented yet?
[12:30] <ogra> i think the LP part is still missing
[12:30] <pochu> ok, ty
[12:32] <sistpoty> will we get karma if we close a bug via an upload? *g*
[12:33] <ogra> sistpoty, lots of ... but karma is inflational anyway 
[12:33] <ogra> :)
[12:34] <sistpoty> hehe
[12:36] <sistpoty> now even more trickier: will I get karma if I sponsor an upload which fixes a bug? :P
[12:36] <ogra> we should make sure to have karma bund to gpg keys then :)
[12:37] <jdong> sistpoty: do sponsoring give karma?
[12:37] <jdong> sistpoty: I know I've gotten karma for packages other sponsored for me....
[12:37] <jdong> but unsre if that's reciprocal
[12:37] <sistpoty> jdong: no idea... I don't think so... but I also guess I don't get karma for doing uploads atm
[12:37] <sistpoty> and we should really make sure that all these karma issues are drafted in the spec :)
[12:37] <ogra> and even more important we should be able to redeem karma for beer :)
[12:38] <sistpoty> haha
[12:39] <jussi01> jdong, where does pbuilder usually put the debs it makes?
[12:39] <jdong> jussi01: /var/cache/pbuilder/results
[12:39] <sistpoty> jussi01: /var/cache/pbuilder/result
[12:39] <sistpoty> damn :P
[12:39] <jussi01> hehe, thanks
[12:39] <jdong> [:-1] 
[12:39] <jdong> there fixed it.
[12:40] <ogra> bash: [:-1] : command not found
[12:41] <ogra> nope ...
[12:41] <ogra> you need to call /usr/bin/python before :P
[12:42] <ogra> sistpoty, argh, thats evil ... flpsed is nearly an anagram of ltspfs ... very irritating ...
[12:42] <ogra> err ltspfsd
[12:42] <sistpoty> sorry ;)
[12:43] <ogra> admit that was intentional ... to confuse me ...
[12:43] <sistpoty> of course ;)
[12:43] <ogra> :)
[01:04] <pochu> does anybody know why I'm getting this error? It has failed twice at the same point, but building with dpkg-buildpackage builds fine
[01:04] <pochu> http://pastebin.com/899125
[01:05] <pochu> It's wesnoth 1.2.2 :)
[01:07] <pochu> don't know why it fails in pbuilder but not with dpkg-buildpackage... maybe a build-depends missing?
[01:09] <TheMuso> pochu: Is your system and pbuilder chroot up to date?
[01:10] <pochu> TheMuso: right, one hour ago
[01:10] <pochu> with the main archive
[01:10] <TheMuso> ok
[01:11] <pochu> I'll update again, to ensure :)
[01:11] <TheMuso> Do you have pbuilder set up so that if a build fails, you are automatically left with a prompt inside the chroot?
[01:11] <TheMuso> TO do further exmination?
[01:13] <pochu> TheMuso: no, I haven't
[01:13] <pochu> TheMuso: should I have it?
[01:13] <TheMuso> That might be worth doing.
[01:13] <TheMuso> Especially for what I am about to suggest.
[01:13] <pochu> TheMuso: what should I do, edit the .pbuilderrc?
[01:13] <TheMuso> No, it can be done with pbuilder hooks.
[01:14] <geser> It's interesting that ld did report why it failed.
[01:14] <TheMuso> What you want to do, is make sure the directory /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks exists.
[01:15] <TheMuso> Then cp /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/C10shell /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks
[01:15] <pochu> it doesn't exist, do I create it?
[01:15] <TheMuso> And finally make sure HOOKDIR in /etc/pbuilderrc points to /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks
[01:15] <TheMuso> What doesn't exist?
[01:16] <pochu>  /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks
[01:16] <TheMuso> yeah create it
[01:18] <pochu> TheMuso: done :)
[01:18] <TheMuso> Ok, how many ELF binaries/libraries does the package produce when built?
[01:18] <pochu> let me look
[01:19] <pochu> 11 +1 I have added (meta package)
[01:19] <pochu> total: 12 :)
[01:20] <TheMuso> I don't mean actual packages.
[01:20] <TheMuso> I actually mean either shared libraries, or binaries that go in usr/bin etc.
[01:20] <pochu> elf?
[01:20] <TheMuso> Its the binary format used for Linux.
[01:20] <pochu> ah, didn't know :)
[01:20] <TheMuso> stands for executable and linkable format
[01:21] <pochu> TheMuso: how can I check that? I'm not sure about it :(
[01:22] <TheMuso> Build the package with dpkg-buildpackage, then go into the staging area for your package, if there is one, ie debian/tmp. Then look in usr/bin and usr/lib if it exists.
[01:23] <TheMuso> if the package doesn't use a temporary staging area for files, then you will have to go through each package's staging directory individually.
[01:23] <pochu> it does
[01:24] <TheMuso> Right.
[01:25] <pochu> there is neither usr/bin/ nor usr/lib in debian/tmp/
[01:25] <TheMuso> What is in there?
[01:25] <pochu> there is a usr/share and a usr/games
[01:25] <TheMuso> sorry, in usr/games
[01:25] <TheMuso> forgot that it was a game.
[01:25] <pochu> and even var/games
[01:25] <pochu> TheMuso: np :)
[01:25] <pochu> 4 executables
[01:25] <pochu> wesnoth, wesnothd, wesnoth_editor (executalbes)
[01:26] <TheMuso> Ok, attempt to build the package in pbuilder again, and wait till you get given a prompt inside the chroot
[01:26] <pochu> and a perl script (wmlxgettext)
[01:26] <pochu> TheMuso: ok
[01:26] <pochu> building :)
[01:33] <LaserJock> oh darn
[01:33] <LaserJock> sistpoty: you around?
[01:34] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yep
[01:34] <ajmitch> LaserJock: of course he's around, it's not 4am yet
[01:34] <sistpoty> :P
[01:34] <LaserJock> heh
[01:34] <LaserJock> well, it was sort of a false alarm
[01:34] <LaserJock> siretart was the one I was after
[01:35] <ajmitch> hehe ok :)
[01:35] <ajmitch> easy to confuse them ;)
[01:35] <sistpoty> LaserJock: ok... he went to bed some time ago
[01:35] <LaserJock> I was just going to say, with respect to the MOTU wiki
[01:35] <LaserJock> that I started implementing Jono's style to MOTU quite some time ago
[01:35] <LaserJock> but I wasn't able to get very far
[01:36] <LaserJock> I created a MOTU header
[01:36] <LaserJock> and worked a bit on MOTU/
[01:36] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
[01:36] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yes, I saw that. that's what reminded me
[01:36] <TheMuso> pochu: How goes the build?
[01:37] <pochu> TheMuso: building :)
[01:37] <TheMuso> pochu: Ok.
[01:37] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm on fire today
[01:38] <LaserJock> called a couple companies and ordered some parts, went to a meeting, proctored and exam, another meeting, fixing Edubuntu docs, ...
[01:38] <ajmitch> LaserJock: scary
[01:38] <pochu> TheMuso: failed, I have a prompt :)
[01:39] <TheMuso> Ok. from another terminal, copy those binaries from the debian/tmp/usr/games dir from the successful build into the chroot/ The chroot is in /var/cache/pbuilder/buildd/* or something like that.
[01:39] <LaserJock> ajmitch & sistpoty: what do you think of the sandbox MOTU page ^^ ?
[01:39] <TheMuso> The dir is named with a number, likely the pid of the pbuilder process.
[01:39] <pochu> ok, going to do
[01:40] <LaserJock> I could probably move most of the MOTU/ content there and replace MOTU?
[01:40] <LaserJock> s|?|/|
[01:40] <TheMuso> sorry, /var/cache/pbuilder/pbuildd
[01:42] <pochu> TheMuso: there is nothing in /var/cache/pbuilder/pbuildd, no directories
[01:42] <sistpoty> LaserJock: looks quite good
[01:42] <TheMuso> I wish there was a way to force an ISP's transparent proxy to flush its cache.
[01:43] <sistpoty> LaserJock: the "current working mode" is great!
[01:43] <TheMuso> pochu: When the build failed, did it say that it was cleaning up?\
[01:43] <TheMuso> and is the prompt you have a root prompt?
[01:43] <pochu> TheMuso: no, and yes
[01:43] <TheMuso> hmmm.
[01:44] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, I imagined that as sort of "Where are we in the release and what are we focused on" thing
[01:44] <pochu> TheMuso: though I'm trying to copy them from another terminal (user one)
[01:44] <TheMuso> Right.
[01:44] <TheMuso> Try and find the source package in /var/cache/pbuilder or any of its subdirs.
[01:45] <TheMuso> so something like find /var/cache/pbuilder -name wesnoth_* or something like that.
[01:45] <sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe the teams should be moved to a subpage, and instead something like "motu is organized by a number of teams, who care for specific aspects of universe..." be inserted in the front page?
[01:45] <LaserJock> sistpoty: that page is based on a fairly old (2006) version of MOTU/ maybe I should update it and polish it and email -motu?
[01:45] <sistpoty> LaserJock: that would be great!
[01:46] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, I was thinking of a table or something easy to see all the team
[01:46] <pochu> TheMuso: ok, doing
[01:46] <LaserJock> sistpoty: but I don't think wiki works very well for that, at least I don't know how to do it in a good way
[01:47] <sistpoty> hm...
[01:48] <pochu> TheMuso: emilio@kiko:/var/cache/pbuilder/build$ ls
[01:48] <pochu> 15477  5744
[01:48] <pochu> TheMuso: though both directories contain "/"
[01:48] <pochu> TheMuso: bin, usr, var, home...
[01:48] <TheMuso> which one has the package source in it out of those two?
[01:49] <TheMuso> Its in the /tmp/build dir I think.
[01:49] <pochu> emilio@kiko:/var/cache/pbuilder/build/15477/tmp/buildd$ ls
[01:49] <pochu> wesnoth-1.2.2  wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.dsc  wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
[01:49] <pochu> :)
[01:50] <sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe it might make sense to invite ppl. to contribute on the front page, hinting to correct any wiki-errors they may find... however that might also just be one of may ideas which won't work after all ;)
[01:50] <LaserJock> sistpoty: well, let me sort of clean it up and update it then I'll open it up for people to thrash around
[01:51] <sistpoty> LaserJock: cool! rock!
[01:52] <pochu> TheMuso: do I paste them inside its directory?
[01:52] <TheMuso> pochu: Anywhere inside that chroot is fine.
[01:52] <pochu> ok
[01:53] <sistpoty> LaserJock: btw.: the top-table with links is very nice :)
[01:53] <pochu> TheMuso: done :)
[01:53] <sistpoty> (as is the contents thingy... I'm still baffled how you do it)
[01:54] <pochu> hey bddebian
[01:54] <TheMuso> pochu: Now what you want to do, is use the ldd command to determine whether any of those binaries can be used with the libraries in the chroot. So something like ldd wesnoth will give you output similar to this. 
[01:54] <TheMuso> pochu: http://www.pastebin.ca/395422
[01:55] <TheMuso> pochu: Obviously it will be different, but you get the idea.
[01:55] <pochu> TheMuso: right :)
[01:55] <pochu> TheMuso: trying
[01:55] <TheMuso> Check all binaries, and check that all libraries a binary needs are present
[01:55] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:55] <bddebian> Hi pochu
[01:55] <TheMuso> Heya bddebian.
[01:56] <bddebian> Hi TheMuso
[01:56] <pochu> TheMuso: seems this is missing:
[01:56] <pochu> linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xffffe000)
[01:56] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[01:56] <TheMuso> pochu: No thats fine.
[01:57] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[01:57] <pochu> ah, ok
[01:58] <pochu> TheMuso: seems ok to me, do I pastebin it for you?
[01:58] <pochu> TheMuso: give me a moment
[01:59] <TheMuso> pochu: If you want to, but unless you can see any not found messages, than that rules out a missing library at least.
[01:59] <pochu> TheMuso: http://www.pastebin.ca/395430
[01:59] <pochu> TheMuso: do you mean the build-depends?
[01:59] <TheMuso> pochu: You could check all the libraries that are linked for the binaries have their dev files present.
[02:00] <TheMuso> otherwise I'm out of ideas.
[02:03] <TheMuso> Anybody around who is a moderator for the universe sponsors ml?
[02:33] <ajmitch> sistpoty: not mentioning the build farm stuff yet? :)
[02:33] <sistpoty> ajmitch: consider contributing ;)
[02:33] <ajmitch> hehe
[02:34] <sistpoty> :P
[02:34] <imbrandon> ?
[02:35] <sistpoty> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Newsletter
[02:35] <imbrandon> ahh
[02:36] <sistpoty> now it only needs some text (as do most other points)
[02:36] <ajmitch> imbrandon: you could probably write something in there about ubuntuwire.com
[02:36] <imbrandon> yup yup, i probably will tonight when i'm at work
[02:36] <sistpoty> cool, thx!
[02:36] <imbrandon> too tired to atm heh
[02:37] <ajmitch> imbrandon: what about blogs for ubuntu people? :)
[02:37] <imbrandon> that might be cool, a multi site wp install wouldent be hard 
[02:37] <imbrandon> and the webserver is already seperate
[02:37] <ajmitch> apart from the fact that it's wp
[02:37] <imbrandon> and i alraedy give jabber/email away
[02:38] <imbrandon> infact i could probably use the jabber/email id for the blogs
[02:38] <sistpoty> security *cough*, *cough*... wp had some bugs assigned to motu-swat which weren't fixed for some time (and maybe still aren't?) *g*
[02:38] <sistpoty> imbrandon: consider using debian packages :P
[02:38] <imbrandon> sistpoty, i install right from wp.com
[02:38] <sistpoty> hehe
[02:38] <ajmitch> sistpoty: wp & security don't go together :)
[02:41] <imbrandon> if i do blogs ajmitch you have to agree to signup for one, since it was your idea ;)
[02:41] <LaserJock> sistpoty: how's the teams in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU ?
[02:42] <sistpoty> LaserJock: nice
[02:42] <LaserJock> sistpoty: do you think that'd be suitable for getting all the teams on the front page?
[02:43] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yep
[02:43] <LaserJock> that's silly Uncommon Programming Languages team makes everything hard :-)
[02:44] <sistpoty> sorry
[02:44] <ajmitch> imbrandon: oh I can sign up 
[02:45] <ajmitch> doesn't mean I'll blog :)
[02:45] <imbrandon> lol
[02:45] <sistpoty> oh, so we already have a security team for universe... seems like motu-swat is redundant then?
[02:45] <ajmitch> sistpoty: hah
[02:45] <ajmitch> the "security team" is rather defunct
[02:45] <sistpoty> hehe
[02:46] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ?
[02:46] <imbrandon> lol
[02:46] <LaserJock> ajmitch: that way I get to blog and you get the flames :-)
[02:47] <LaserJock> oh darn, I was thinking MOTU Swat == MOTU QA
[02:47] <imbrandon> bbiab food time
[02:48] <sistpoty> LaserJock: no, motu-swat is the new motu-security. and we sometimes even get things done... sometimes... rarely... and only because keescook is doing most of the work ;)
[02:48] <LaserJock> mhm
[02:48] <sistpoty> or geser
[02:48] <sistpoty> or anyone else, not me :P
[02:50] <ajmitch> LaserJock: lucky me
[02:50] <LaserJock> of course
[02:51] <sistpoty> hm... many team pages look kinda outdated... maybe we should do some cleanup there as well?
[02:51] <ajmitch> yes
[02:53] <sistpoty> (including upl, which wasn't very active lately)
[02:57] <ajmitch> upl?
[03:00] <bddebian> What is upl?
[03:00] <sistpoty> uncommon programming languages, since LaserJock complaind :P
[03:00] <sistpoty> +e
[03:00] <LaserJock> hehe
[03:00] <LaserJock> what I'm doing right now
[03:01] <bddebian> You're writing Lisp now? :-)
[03:01] <LaserJock> is listing the ones from MOTU/Teams
[03:01] <ajmitch> fortran :)
[03:01] <LaserJock> that have LP teams
[03:01] <LaserJock> heh
[03:01] <bddebian> w00t
[03:01] <LaserJock> since it obviously doesn't belong to UCL
[03:01] <LaserJock> or UPL
[03:02] <bddebian> So if I want a char* to point to another pointer is it just foo = bar; or foo = &bar?
[03:02] <sistpoty> bddebian: foo = bar;
[03:02] <bddebian> Hmm, that's what I thought
[03:02] <bddebian> #$%#!$
[03:02] <sistpoty> &bar would give you the pointer to bar... so if bar is a pointer you end up with a pointer to a pointer
[03:03] <bddebian> Well bar is actually a 2 dimensional array at this point :-)
[03:03] <Lathiat> which can sometimes be usefull
[03:03] <sistpoty> bddebian: then bar is a pointer to a pointer already... 
[03:03] <bddebian> Right
[03:04] <Lathiat> heh, true
[03:04] <sistpoty> bddebian: so I guess you'll want s.th. like foo = bar[42] ... unless foo is an array itself
[03:04] <sistpoty> (to pointers)
[03:07] <bddebian> Actually what I really want is a char* struct element to = a const char[5] [3]  but no matter what I do I can't get it to work :_(
[03:08] <joejaxx> anyone here use svn? :P
[03:09] <sistpoty> bddebian: got some code to look at?
[03:09] <bddebian> sistpoty: No cause you'll laugh at it ;-)
[03:10] <sistpoty> bddebian: I promise not to :P
[03:10] <sistpoty> however first I'll go for a cigarette ;)
[03:10] <pochu> TheMuso: I think I found the missed dependency: libsdl1.2-dev :)
[03:10] <pochu> but I'll do it tomorrow
[03:10] <pochu> TheMuso: thanks for your help!
[03:10] <bddebian> sistpoty: http://pastebin.us/17332
[03:11] <TheMuso> pochu: great.
[03:11] <pochu> good night everyone!
[03:11] <bddebian> Gnight pochu
[03:12] <bddebian> sistpoty: Oh, and here's the header file:  http://pastebin.us/17333
[03:14] <LaserJock> bddebian: well, is surely not as bad looking as the sed rpn calculator I saw the other day
[03:15] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[03:17] <LaserJock> crimsun: well said, +1
[03:18] <ajmitch> ah, the list
[03:20] <LaserJock> is MOTU/SRU the current SRU policy? I've lost track
[03:20] <ajmitch> probably not
[03:22] <LaserJock> bah
[03:22] <ajmitch> funny, the suggestion of leaving it to the motu-uvf team
[03:23] <ajmitch> since crimsun is a member of that team as well
[03:23] <LaserJock> well yeah
[03:23] <LaserJock> pretty much any team would still make it up to him ;-)
[03:23] <ajmitch> & there is some slight overlap between -uvf & the mc
[03:27] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:27] <LaserJock> do you know if apport has blacklisting at all?
[03:27] <ajmitch> or if most people are running edgy & so it can't be changed
[03:27] <ajmitch> there's some
[03:28] <ajmitch>     # ignore blacklisted binaries
[03:28] <ajmitch>     if info.check_ignored():
[03:28] <ajmitch>         error_log('executable version is blacklisted, ignoring')
[03:39] <bddebian> Damn, did sistpoty die laughing at my hideous code?
[03:39] <sistpoty> bddebian: no, was just out for a smoke (and had some chat with my gf)
[03:40] <bddebian> :)
[03:40] <sistpoty> bddebian: just fiddling with your code
[03:42] <bddebian> It's very messy since I have tried so many iterations of stuff :-(
[03:44] <sistpoty> imo it's not that messy
[03:49] <LaserJock> ok guys, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
[03:49] <LaserJock> I think it's got about everything I was thinking of
[03:50] <ajmitch> sistpoty: your gf is still awake as well?
[03:50] <sistpoty> yep
[03:50] <ajmitch> sad
[03:50] <sistpoty> hehe
[03:51] <LaserJock> ajmitch: that's my problem. my wife doesn't like it when I stay up til 2am when see wants to go to bed at 10:00pm
[03:52] <bddebian> LaserJock: Heh, my wife has been asleep since before 10 ;-P
[03:52] <bddebian> Hell and even LOST is on
[03:53] <bddebian> But we love you anyway :-)
[03:53] <ajmitch> no you don't
[03:54] <bddebian> Sure we do :-)
[03:56] <LaserJock> ok, so the MOTU Meeting is scheduled the same time as the next TB meeting
[03:57] <LaserJock> and on the MOTU/Meeting page it says Tuesday the 23rd but Tuesday is the 27th
[03:57] <crimsun> it's the 27th; it's correct on the fridge
[03:58] <crimsun> or at least I recall robtaille asking about it
[03:58] <sistpoty> LaserJock: probably my fault... sorry
[04:00] <LaserJock> ohh
[04:00] <LaserJock> the meeting time has changed, I think
[04:00] <LaserJock> or maybe not
[04:01] <LaserJock> for some reason my google calendar says they are at the same time
[04:02] <sistpoty> at least I was consistent with my type... now that I know that I can't read the calendar :)
[04:10] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[04:11] <LaserJock> I have a laptop that keeps switching times
[04:11] <LaserJock> I gotta figure out if it's still doing it
[04:11] <ogra> LaserJock, feels like permanent travelling, doesnt it :)
[04:12] <LaserJock> heh, you would surely know
[04:12] <LaserJock> ogra: has most of your travel been in Europe?
[04:12] <ajmitch> ogra: it's worrying that you're still awake :)
[04:13] <ogra> LaserJock, the recent ones, yes
[04:13] <ogra> and the next ones as well ...
[04:13] <ogra> ajmitch, yeah, thanks to cbx33 ... who changed half the world in TCM but forgot to bzr add the new glade file for it
[04:13] <lifeless> rotfl
[04:14] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm always around in -motu :)
[04:14] <ogra> lifeless, not funny ... its an essential program for edubuntu and now its unlikely to make the freeze tomorrow
[04:14] <lifeless> ogra: eep
[04:15] <ogra> but i cant do much anymore now ... i fixed all the code i could fix witout having a gui ... so i think its bedtime now ...
[04:16] <Amaranth> oh dear
[04:16] <ogra> well, its a typical user error with bzr ... 
[04:17] <Amaranth> git is somewhat better there but in an annoying way
[04:17] <ogra> i miss a bzr add myself very often as well ...
[04:17] <Amaranth> that's a typical user error with just about every VCS
[04:17] <ogra> i guess you cant solve it properly in an automatic way 
[04:17] <Amaranth> not without dumping crap into the repo
[04:17] <ogra> so its a matter of habit 
[04:18] <Amaranth> in git it won't commit anything until you git-update-index it, i've found myself realizing i added a file and forgot about it when i check git-status to see what i need to feed to git-update-index
[04:19] <Amaranth> so it's more annoying 99% of the time but saved your ass in that 1%
[04:19] <Amaranth> saves*
[04:19] <ajmitch> ogra: ah, that's unfortunate
[04:20] <LaserJock> wow, Mail.app just signed my email for me
[04:21] <Amaranth> neat
[04:22] <lifeless> ogra: add a bzr alias for 'commit=commit --strict'
[04:22] <lifeless> that gives you the same behaviour
[04:23] <ogra> cool, thanks 1
[04:23] <ogra> !
[04:26] <ajmitch> now you just need to get everyone using that alias :)
[04:30] <lifeless> I think you can put it in branch.conf for the branches you care about
[04:34] <sistpoty> bddebian: sorry, was distracted again. and I guess I'm too tired to fix it right now, but I'll take a look at it tomorrow
[04:35] <bddebian> sistpoty: No worries, thanks man
[04:42] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[05:41] <jimpop> wrt archive.ubuntu.com, I'm getting an error from "apt-get update"...
[05:41] <jimpop> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[05:42] <Amaranth> jimpop: Try again in 15 minutes
[05:43] <jimpop> gotcha. thx
[05:43] <tonyyarusso> sandwich time
[06:01] <jimpop> Amaranth: not rushing you, just fyi that the problem still remains.
[06:01] <Amaranth> jimpop: I have no control over it, was just a random suggestion
[06:01] <Amaranth> usually helps
[06:02] <jimpop> Amaranth: ahh, ok. thx anyways
[06:39] <imbrandon> re
[06:45] <LaserJock> ok, so upgrading NetworkManager over ssh isn't the best idea apparently
[06:45] <imbrandon> hahaha
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> lol
[06:48] <LaserJock> well, it's not all *that* funny
[06:48] <LaserJock> it's my server computer
[06:48] <LaserJock> thankfully it's just in another room
[06:48] <imbrandon> well we've all been there so yea, but your server uses nm?
[06:48] <LaserJock> that's Feisty's default so yeah
[06:48] <LaserJock> I couldn't figure out how to do it non-NM very well
[06:48] <imbrandon> heh
[06:49] <imbrandon> well i have no gui on the servers so kinda hard to use nm
[06:49] <imbrandon> plus its just easier to have milti interfaces etc the old way
[06:49] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:49] <imbrandon> multi*
[06:49] <LaserJock> well, my "server" is just my desktop machine that I leave on all night and has a LAMP setup
[06:49] <imbrandon> :)
[06:50] <imbrandon> hey its a start hehe
[06:50] <LaserJock> probably as close as I'll ever get
[06:50] <imbrandon> ya never know, 2 or 3 years you might be in a new house and have a ubuntu box headless tucked away in the basement serving files ;)
[06:51] <LaserJock> I think I'm more likely to get a professorship and have money for a small cluster
[06:51] <imbrandon> hrm i wonder if i could get a ubuntu install in under 1GB
[06:51] <LaserJock> full Ubuntu?
[06:51] <imbrandon> no
[06:51] <imbrandon> just server install
[06:51] <imbrandon> never checked on the size
[06:51] <LaserJock> I would think you could
[06:52] <LaserJock> full Ubuntu's supposed to take 2GB
[06:52] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You could easily.
[06:52] <lifeless> huh
[06:52] <lifeless> clearly its 720MB :)
[06:52] <imbrandon> yea i would think i could, just never checked the size on a clean install
[06:53] <lifeless> run off of the squashfs:)
[06:53] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:53] <imbrandon> i have a 1GB CF card, i would liek to run it as my router, but not run a router centric linux, i want full ubuntu server
[06:53] <imbrandon> i think it will be doable
[06:55] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Having a CPU, RAM and a network interface or two may make a more functional router ;)
[06:56] <imbrandon> hahaha yea
[06:56] <imbrandon> i have all that , totaly fanless, small, hpc 
[06:56] <Fujitsu> Nice.
[06:56] <imbrandon> just picked up the cfcard yesterday
[06:56] <imbrandon> the "final piece"
[06:57] <imbrandon> your router?
[06:57] <imbrandon> my current router i got on ebay
[06:57] <imbrandon> it runs openwrt too ;)
[06:58] <LaserJock> yeah, my wireless DSL router
[06:58] <LaserJock> some Netgear that was $25 I think
[06:58] <imbrandon> yea ebay isnt bad for computer equip as long as you know what your getting
[07:12] <Fujitsu> Hm, can we ban unofficial repos from being listed on Planet, please?
[07:20] <imbrandon> lol
[07:23] <imbrandon> holy mother of god
[07:24] <imbrandon> there are STILL ad's on the ubuntuforums.org ( if your not logged in )
[07:25] <humanof> Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu or at [MAILTO]  keyring@tiber.tauware.de to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU
[07:25] <imbrandon> humanof, give me one moment
[07:38] <imbrandon> humanof, ok sync complete
[07:45] <humanof> sorry if I am a retard or something, but for the Login and Pass of REVU, that is the same as the launchpad login and pass or not...
[07:46] <RAOF> humanof: No, it isn't.
[07:46] <humanof> oh wait nevermind, just read down a bit
[07:46] <humanof> says after first package
[07:46] <RAOF> :)
[08:21] <man-di> Can someone tell what the prerequisites for uploading to *-backports is?
[08:22] <Fujitsu> man-di: It must build, install and run on the target distribution, with no changes.
[08:22] <man-di> my backports depend on othere backports or only on target distro packges?
[08:37] <imbrandon> backports can target other backports BUT you dont upload to -backports, backports only come from +1
[08:37] <imbrandon> e.g. edgy-backports will only be imported from feisty ( after testing and verification )
[08:38] <imbrandon> man-di, ^^
[08:40] <imbrandon> ( see the bottom of this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports )
[08:54] <man-di> thats the page I googled for and dont found it, thx imbrandon 
[08:56] <ajmitch> hi
[09:17] <imbrandon> hi too
[09:43] <dholbach> good morning
[09:43] <Lutin> 'morning dholbach 
[09:43] <Q-FUNK> 'mourning
[09:44] <dholbach> hi Lutin
[09:44] <dholbach> hi Q-FUNK
[09:44] <Q-FUNK> heh.  pretty interesting reading on the planets today:  it seems that we are heading for a simultaneous release of Etch and Feisty.
[09:46] <Q-FUNK> The Cabale Strikes Back  - Episode IV:  Darth Ganneff returns.  ;)
[09:48] <lucas> well feisty is supposed to release on april 19th
[09:49] <lucas> etch on april 2nd
[09:50] <man-di> lucas: adding some more days before the release of etch cant hurt :-)
[09:51] <Lutin> heya freeflying_ 
[09:51] <freeflying_> Lutin: hi
[09:51] <lucas> actually, I was surprised by the status update
[09:51] <lucas> I thought that it would release sooner
[09:51] <Lutin> freeflying_: how're doing ?
[09:51] <freeflying_> Lutin: busy on my work  :)
[09:52] <Lutin> heh :)
[09:52] <man-di> lucas: I was surprized that the blockers are no blockers anymore
[09:52] <Lutin> freeflying_: can you remember the fonts you're usin in E that replace the vera fonts ?
[09:52] <freeflying_> Lutin: sorry, I forget that  :)
[09:53] <man-di> lucas: thanks for the Java comparison cronjob, that will help a lot
[09:54] <Lutin> freeflying_: ok. if you have some time, would you have a look ?
[09:54] <Lutin> as I'm rewriting my build system, I'll take a look in the process :)
[09:55] <freeflying_> Lutin: ok  :)
[09:55] <Lutin> freeflying_: ok, cool. thanks :)
[09:56] <Lutin> freeflying_: if you have other comments/suggests, they're welcome ;)
[09:57] <freeflying_> Lutin: if i have time, i will
[09:57] <Lutin> thanks :)
[10:23] <uatschitchun> Goor morning
[10:23] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: Ok. You might find this guide useful. http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
[10:24] <TheMuso> That talks all about .desktop files.
[10:24] <uatschitchun> The dektop-file is correct ... checked with dektop-file-vaildate ...
[10:25] <uatschitchun> That's not the problem
[10:25] <cbx33> hey all
[10:25] <cbx33> I'm looking to remaster the ubuntu live cd to brand it for the school
[10:26] <cbx33> http://wiki.oss-watch.ac.uk/UbuntuEdgy/Remaster
[10:26] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: Ok whats the problem?
[10:26] <cbx33> seems like a good set of instructions however on extracting the squashfs filesystem without root privilages....I get an error
[10:26] <cbx33> about ssl and permission denied
[10:26] <cbx33> should I use root
[10:26] <TheMuso> cbx33: How are you extracting the filesystem?
[10:27] <cbx33> mount $CD/casper/filesystem.squashfs /mnt -t squashfs -o loop
[10:27] <cbx33> rsync -av /mnt/. $Source/.
[10:27] <uatschitchun> Problem is: after the installation the menu item does not appear .. only after relogin or an update of the .desktop file itself (rewrite it - some kind of touch, but touch does not do the job)
[10:27] <verwilst> hi!
[10:27] <verwilst> it seems like postfix-policyd has some bugs :)
[10:28] <verwilst> somebody wants to work with me to solve em? :$
[10:28] <uatschitchun> it works fine with the feisty packages in xubuntu
[10:28] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: Are you calling dh_desktop in your rules file?
[10:28] <TheMuso> cbx33: Hmmm. Thats how I would do it.
[10:29] <TheMuso> cbx33: Are you using it with sudo?
[10:29] <verwilst> uatschitchun: it's the installation
[10:29] <jussi01> morning motu's
[10:29] <verwilst> uatschitchun: when you want to do it unattended
[10:29] <verwilst> but don't have a database
[10:29] <uatschitchun> No, I'm not, but I looked into several packages where the menu-item appears and none of them calls dh_desktop !?
[10:29] <verwilst> it complains that it can't connect, and errors out
[10:29] <verwilst> even when you preseed it to ignore that warning
[10:29] <Q-FUNK> lucas: I bet that will not make it on time for Apr.2
[10:30] <verwilst> also, when a file has changed, it asks whether to overwrite it or keep the current version
[10:30] <verwilst> even when you have DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
[10:31] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: hmm. I am not really up on menu items and whether they usually show up immediately or not.
[10:32] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: afaik dh_desktop adds postinst rules for update-desktop-databse for assigning mime-types, correct? But my app does not assign mime-types, so I won't have to call dh_desktop ;)
[10:32] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: Right.
[10:32] <TheMuso> Well how do other packages do it?
[10:33] <uatschitchun> Same as me ..
[10:33] <TheMuso> So are items supposed to show up immediately? If they are, I don't know how thats done.
[10:33] <uatschitchun> Is it important that a .desktop file is shipped in the same package as the binary?
[10:34] <uatschitchun> for know I have it in binary-indep package coming along
[10:34] <TheMuso> I would think so. Many packages I have worked on have done so.
[10:35] <cbx33> TheMuso: I am using it with sudo now
[10:35] <uatschitchun> On a fresh Edgy if you install xmms, it places it's meu-item directly after the install in 'Multimedia'
[10:35] <cbx33> but wondering if permissions will be screwed up on recompression
[10:36] <TheMuso> cbx33: If using sudo to recompress, and with appropriate permissions flags set if any, I wouldn't see why not.
[10:36] <cbx33> ok
[10:36] <cbx33> but does that rsync keep permissions?
[10:37] <TheMuso> cbx33: Yes. I have rsynced things like that, particularly off CDs, and all files have kept permissions.
[10:37] <cbx33> cool
[10:37] <cbx33>  ok
[10:37] <StevenK> cbx33: If -p is in the options
[10:38] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: could it be that binary-indep packages are treated different and only binary-arch packages have an influence on menu-items?
[10:39] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: I don't know I am affraid.
[10:40] <cbx33> anyone know about isollinux here?
[10:40] <cbx33> Edit $CD/isolinux/isolinux.cfg to addpreseed/locale=en_GB kbd-chooser/method=gb DEBCONF_PRIORITY=critical
[10:40] <cbx33> is that added to the kernel line?
[10:41] <TheMuso> cbx33: I'd say so, yes.
[10:41] <cbx33> ok
[10:51] <TheMuso> pochu: Hey there.
[10:51] <pochu> hey TheMuso!
[10:52] <pochu> it has worked :)
[10:52] <TheMuso> pochu: WHat was missing?
[10:52] <uatschitchu1> Sorry, seems I was lost ;)
[10:52] <pochu> TheMuso: build-dep on libsdl1.2-dev
[10:52] <TheMuso> You would think the configure script would pick up on that.
[10:52] <pochu> TheMuso: I saw I had that package installed, but it wasn't specified on the build-deps, so I tried it :)
[11:03] <pochu> TheMuso: Bug #90407 :)
[11:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
[11:03] <TheMuso> pochu: Has the UVF been approved?
[11:04] <pochu> TheMuso: I'm asking daniel to review it :)
[11:05] <TheMuso> pochu: Ok but it has to be acked by two people on the UVF team afaik.
[11:05] <pochu> TheMuso: by 2?
[11:05] <pochu> TheMuso: I've read in the policy that one is enough
[11:05] <pochu> maybe the wiki isn't updated...
[11:05] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: Did you get my last questions?
[11:06] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: I don't think so.
[11:06] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: Sorry for that ... my client logged me off two times ;(
[11:08] <pochu> TheMuso: Once one of the [WWW]  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading.
[11:08] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, ping
[11:08] <pochu> TheMuso: that's in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[11:08] <pochu> if it's not the current policy, we should probably update it :)
[11:09] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: Ok, I've had another look ... I examined 'sdljump'. This package ships the 'sdljump.desktop' with the sdljump-data package (same as I do) and the menu item is there just right after installing sdljump ... Why not with my package?
[11:09] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: Where could I get an answer? What do you think?
[11:09] <StevenK> uatschitchun: Does your debian/rules file run dh_desktop in the binary-indep target?
[11:10] <uatschitchun> No, it need not cause I'm not registering mime-types!
[11:10] <uatschitchun> StevenK: And if I run update-desktop-database by hand, the menu-item doesn't still appear!?
[11:11] <StevenK> dh_desktop doesn't touch mime-types
[11:11] <StevenK> Are you certain the .desktop is getting installed to the correct directory?
[11:11] <uatschitchun> StevenK: But it prepares postinst rules to run update-desktop-database, which does ...
[11:11] <uatschitchun> StevenK: Yes, I am
[11:12] <StevenK> Then I have no idea.
[11:14] <uatschitchun> StevenK: The desktop-file is installed into /usr/share/applications/. If I do change the file, without changing it (add a new line and remove it, then save - some kind of touch, but touch doesn't do) the menu-item appears
[11:14] <uatschitchun> StevenK: It also appears after relogin
[11:16] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: You have peaked my curiocity about this. I have merged a package in the past for Ubuntu that has a desktop file, yet doesn't call dh_desktop. I also happen to use that package.
[11:17] <imbrandon> crimsun, looks like you'll have to upgrade your breezy boxen soon ;) ( siretart you too e.g. tiber )
[11:18] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: Have a look into 'sdljump' sources ... it just copies the sdljump.desktop within rules and installs with sdljump-data.install ...
[11:18] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: I will in a minute.
[11:18] <uatschitchun> TheMuso: jojo .. take your time
[11:25] <TheMuso> uatschitchun: I think you need to create a debian/menu, or debian/package.menu file, and use dh_installmenu to put it into place.
[11:26] <verwilst> i preseed this to postfix-policyd: postfix-policyd postfix-policyd/mysql/method    select   tcp/ip
[11:27] <verwilst> and still it nags: ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[11:27] <verwilst> it seems like postfix-policyd pays no attention to the preseed values...
[11:37] <dholbach> ajmitch, siretart, slomo_, crimsun: can two of you take a look at 92476?
[11:39] <verwilst> is there a way to disable dbconfig-common?
[11:39] <verwilst> so i can pinpoint wether that piece of euh.. software is the culprit :)
[11:41] <geser> verwilst: have you checked the real config for postfix-policyd?
[11:41] <imbrandon> ohhh i want one .... http://digitimes.com/Backgrounders/ArtReview.asp?datePublish=2007/03/14&pages=PR&seq=207
[11:41] <verwilst> geser: the real config?
[11:43] <geser> postfix-policd won't read the debconf values but the real config which should be filled with the debconf values
[11:45] <pochu> dholbach: does UVF require 2 ack? If so, do I change the wiki? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[11:45] <pochu> Once one of the [WWW]  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading.
[11:46] <Fujitsu> pochu: The final one will mark it as confirmed.
[11:46] <verwilst> geser: euh
[11:46] <pochu> Fujitsu: so the wiki is out-of-date?
[11:46] <verwilst> geser: it's during configure of the package eh
[11:46] <verwilst> it's not installed yet
[11:46] <Fujitsu> pochu: No, the wiki is correct.
[11:46] <pochu> Fujitsu: oh, I see!
[11:47] <pochu> hehe
[11:47] <Fujitsu> A little ambiguous, perhaps.
[11:47] <pochu> :)
[11:47] <verwilst> doing "postfix-policyd postfix-policyd/install-error   select  ignore" should make the package go further when an error occurs
[11:47] <verwilst> but it fails anyways
[11:47] <pochu> dholbach: nevermind :)
[11:47] <verwilst> when i do it interactive and select ignore, it installs fine
[11:47] <verwilst> ( ignoring the error 
[11:47] <verwilst> )
[11:47] <verwilst> it's driving me crazy
[11:48] <verwilst> and i have no idea where to look in the deb source for a fix
[11:48] <verwilst> grm
[11:48] <verwilst> i almost broke my keyboard while hitting on it :p
[11:50] <geser> if it happens during configure check the postfix-policd.config and postfix-policd.postinst in /var/lib/dpkg/info
[11:54] <bmm> Which distribution should I be running to create packages and upload them to REVU? Feisty or Edgy?
[11:55] <imbrandon> bmm, any one, as long as your build env ( e.g. pbuilder is feisty )
[11:55] <verwilst> geser: it seems to ignore every preseed value you throw at it
[11:56] <ajmitch> dholbach: give a bit more info on what netbeans is :)
[11:56] <ajmitch> I know it's java & all...
[11:57] <geser> isn't it a java ide?
[11:57] <ajmitch> no idea
[11:57] <dholbach> it's a java IDE
[11:57] <verwilst> yes!
[11:57] <dholbach> let me link to netbeans.org
[11:57] <verwilst> removing /usr/share/dbconfig-common/dpkg/config.mysql fixes it!
[11:57] <imbrandon> i thought it was like cpan modules or pear db stuff
[11:57] <geser> http://www.netbeans.org/
[11:57] <StevenK> NetBeans refers to both a platform for the development of Java desktop applications, and an integrated development environment (IDE) developed using the NetBeans Platform.
[11:58] <verwilst> so it's a dbconfig-common error
[11:58] <bmm> imbrando: thanks!
[11:59] <imbrandon> yw
[12:01] <pochu> ajmitch: if you have a moment, can you review bug 90407 please?
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
[12:40] <LaserJock> dholbach: you got a sec to take a peek at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU ?
[12:44] <dholbach> LaserJock: can you drop me a mail about that?
[12:44] <dholbach> i'm just getting pinged by 10 people at once
[12:44] <LaserJock> dholbach: well, I mentioned it in ubuntu-motu
[12:44] <dholbach> on the mailing list?
[12:44] <LaserJock> dholbach: so if you get around to reading email
[12:44] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:44] <dholbach> cool - that's perfect
[12:44] <dholbach> thanks
[12:44] <LaserJock> heh, np
[12:45] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It looks substantially better than the current one.
[12:45] <LaserJock> ok, well that's a good start
[12:50] <imbrandon> FUCK !
[12:50] <StevenK> imbrandon: You aren't my type.
[12:50] <StevenK> imbrandon: Try Fujitsu.
[12:50] <imbrandon> mysql just decided to drop all my tables, including my blog
[12:50] <imbrandon> jesus omfg
[12:51] <StevenK> imbrandon: Would now be a good time to mention PostgreSQL? :-P
[12:51] <imbrandon> fuck man, my backup is like 6 or 7 months old
[12:51] <imbrandon> jesus
[12:52] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Now how did that happen?
[12:53] <imbrandon> no idea
[12:53] <Fujitsu> imbrandon.... ouch?
[12:53] <imbrandon> hum the DB are still on disk
[12:54] <imbrandon> whew
[12:54] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I'd make a copy immediately if I were you.
[12:54] <imbrandon> ok now to figure out how to restore them
[12:54] <imbrandon> i just did
[12:54] <Hobbsee> i swear, every time i read another message of that kde4 thread, i just want to leave ubuntu...
[12:54] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, +1
[12:54] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: But you'
[12:54] <imbrandon> craptastic , bbiab 
[12:54] <Fujitsu> *you're a Kubuntu-person.
[12:54] <Hobbsee> and get out of any leadership role possible in ubuntu
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think that's why it makes it so bad
[12:55] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's what I meant.
[12:55] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: hmm, I think that about every day
[12:55] <Fujitsu> 'tis a nice Council v. Council battle.
[12:56] <imbrandon> i just stoped reading it after crimsun's last email, it made the most sense of them all
[12:56] <LaserJock> somehow I keep getting up every morning and start plugging away
[12:56] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, it was much better than mine :/
[12:56] <Hobbsee> it's still really weird to hear all of them bitch to high heaven about support for them, when i've never seen most of them triage a KDE bug in their lives...
[12:56] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: That was the last email there was in that thread :P
[12:56] <StevenK> The mail exchange on -motu is very tame.
[12:56] <StevenK> Says the Debian developer ...
[12:56] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:56] <imbrandon> StevenK, ;)
[12:56] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Look at Beryl. It's not even in Ubuntu.
[12:57] <Fujitsu> KDE is relatively stable, and is in main now.
[12:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.
[12:58] <StevenK> TheMuso: Look at kdebase
[12:58] <TheMuso> The reasons for which should be self explanetory.
[12:58] <TheMuso> StevenK: Thats main
[12:58] <imbrandon> basicly it boils down to 3 things imho, not to start a fight but crimsun put it best, 1) it was in edgy the same way, to remove it now would be a regression 2) this isnt the first expirmental packages in universe 3) its not the damn MC charter to decide whats in universe about ANY package , KDE or not
[12:58] <Hobbsee> StevenK: look at synaptic, that's similarly bad, iirc.
[12:59] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it's also not the KC charter to decide a UVFe for Universe packages
[12:59] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I think it is somewhat the MC's role to decide on something big like this.
[12:59] <Fujitsu> What LaserJock said.
[12:59] <TheMuso> Anyways, got an audio meeting in 7 hours, better get some sleep.
[12:59] <StevenK> Can we not move the argument to IRC, please?
[12:59] <imbrandon> LaserJock, right, thats why it was a request
[12:59] <Hobbsee> whatever the MOTU council decide goes, no point trying to say anything else.  </end>
[12:59] <TheMuso> Cya folks.
[12:59] <StevenK> TheMuso: Night.
[12:59] <imbrandon> laster 
[12:59] <Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
[12:59] <imbrandon> later*
[12:59] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: the MC shouldn't and I don't think is deciding
[01:00] <pochu> TheMuso: bye!
[01:00] <LaserJock> I think it's become a bit bigger issue than it needed to be
[01:00] <LaserJock> it's really not KC vs. MC and it's not MOTU vs. KDE
[01:00] <LaserJock> it's about figuring out the best way to get those packages and maintain Feisty Universe
[01:01] <imbrandon> LaserJock, but its total BS why it comes up now when its been this way the better part of a year
[01:01] <imbrandon> and from people that dont touch KDE with a long pointy stick
[01:01] <LaserJock> that's silly
[01:01] <LaserJock> most couldn't care less if it was KDE or not
[01:02] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: you're not serious, are you?
[01:02] <LaserJock> the issue is a UVFe for what seems to me to be not a very strong case for a UVFe
[01:02] <imbrandon> its not the fact its KDE, if it was alsa, i would say the same thing, they arent touching it and havent in the past why care now
[01:02] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I am, and I really wish you guys wouldn't think that people *won't* touch KDE stuff in Universe
[01:03] <LaserJock> I don't care if it's Gnome, KDE, XFCE, or FVWM
[01:03] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: based on how many times i've had "can you sponsor my upload?  sure, what is it?  k*, oh, i dont do kde stuff, sorry"
[01:03] <imbrandon> LaserJock, it not that its KDE specificly, as i said it could be any package set
[01:03] <Hobbsee> you dont need that too many times, to stop asking
[01:03] <Hobbsee> but that's moot.
[01:03] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, that's entirely different, IMO
[01:04] <LaserJock> not feeling comfortable with a package for sponsorship is really different then being bigoted against KDE
[01:04] <LaserJock> which seems to be what you're trying to say
[01:04] <Hobbsee> one effectively leads to the other, i thought
[01:05] <LaserJock> well, I'd strongly disagree, but ok
[01:05] <Hobbsee> i may have my definitions wrong, though
[01:05] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I wouldn't be particularly comfortable sponsoring uploads for most k* packages, as I don't know them. However, I treat k* packages approximately equally when doing bug-stuff.
[01:05] <LaserJock> but I really believe that if it had been some Gnome or Java or whatever packages we'd feel the same way
[01:06] <StevenK> Allow me to repeat myself.
[01:06] <StevenK> Can we not move the argument to IRC, please?
[01:06] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Unfortunately, arguing on a mailing list or blog isn't overly effective or realtime.
[01:06] <imbrandon> LaserJock, and thats my point, if java had been done like this in edgy ( and before iirc ) and approved as a spec too at UDS 
[01:06] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: true.  particularly java.  on that basis, you leave the decision to those who actually work regularly with the stuff.
[01:07] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: no, I leave it to the MOTU to decide, or at least motu-uvf
[01:07] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Point. I still hate to see us (as a team) so pollarised.
[01:08] <Fujitsu> It is, in the end, up to motu-uvf to make the decision.
[01:08] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I see what you mean, of course.
[01:08] <imbrandon> exactly, and the motu-uvf should take into great consideration the fact that the people that work with the packages and know them came to a concinsus, not flip it and try to remove them altogather
[01:08] <StevenK> With Debian Developers you end up expecting it since there are a bunch of jerks in the group. :-)
[01:08] <LaserJock> you guys can't just say it's a spec and say that should automatically give it a Freeze exceptioin
[01:08] <imbrandon> LaserJock, no we're not
[01:08] <Q-FUNK> StevenK: the cabale
[01:09] <man-di> StevenK: do you mean the debian java group?
[01:09] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: TINC
[01:09] <StevenK> man-di: I do not.
[01:09] <imbrandon> a "no we cant have a uvfe based on this , this and this" would go over a WHOLE lot better than the MC grilling about why its even there when its been there almost a year and discussed openly many times
[01:09] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ^^
[01:09] <StevenK> There are a number of DDs I have in mind, but I'm not going to name them publically.
[01:09] <StevenK> Or privately, depending on who you are.
[01:09] <LaserJock> people have just said that it seems a bit odd to do UVFes and FFes (putting stuff in NEW and then asking if it's ok seems a tad odd)
[01:10] <LaserJock> for packages that will be fairly quickly outdated, not supported
[01:10] <Q-FUNK> StevenK: we all know who they are.
[01:10] <man-di> StevenK: I agree that some DDs are ... strange
[01:10] <Fujitsu> This may have gone a whole lot better if MOTU had been brought into the spec into the first place.
[01:11] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: Well, we have our own private list... :-)
[01:11] <LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I agree that it could all be handled better
[01:11] <man-di> StevenK: but there are also DDs who are quiete nice and good to work with
[01:11] <StevenK> Agreed
[01:11] <imbrandon> see actualy this is exactly why kubuntu needs a diffrent release schedule than ubuntu, ubuntu is based on gnome releases schedule ( or vice versa ) and kubuntu ends up being screwed every release by "just missing it" , look at kde 3.5.6 for edgys schedule
[01:11] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it was a bit of a sudden request for people not tracking Kubuntu
[01:11] <imbrandon> etc
[01:11] <Q-FUNK> StevenK: which is only accessible to those who passed DD, but never mind that.  cases are still known.
[01:11] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: I didn't mean debian-private.
[01:11] <imbrandon> LaserJock, thats just it, and its the ones that dident give a rats ass untill now making a stiink
[01:11] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: MOTU doesnt really make decisions anymore - it's the MC now.
[01:12] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: not a lot of them, anyway.  or so it seems
[01:12] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not when that spec was defined.
[01:12] <Hobbsee> true that
[01:12] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: What I meant, is that I have a list of DDs that a jerks, and your list of who are jerks is probably different.
[01:12] <imbrandon> when the spec was defined we hand many MOTU's in on it, only me and riddell were core
[01:12] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, ^
[01:12] <imbrandon> had*
[01:12] <Q-FUNK> now that there are 3 supported desktop flavors, release dates should be shifted in order to accomodate all 3 upstream's release schedules.
[01:13] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: We'd never be able to release.
[01:13] <StevenK> I agree with Fujitsu
[01:13] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, sure you would, just xubutnu and ubuntu and kubuntu wouldent at the same time, and univerwe would be in a perpetual state
[01:13] <imbrandon> its been talked aobut before
[01:13] <Q-FUNK> well, given how with KDE the above statement was "just barely missing it"  it wouldn't be too hard to shift from e.g. 7.04 to 7.06
[01:13] <Fujitsu> StevenK: On which bit?
[01:14] <StevenK> Fujitsu: [23:13]  < Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: We'd never be able to release.
[01:14] <LaserJock> imbrandon: "didn't give a rats ass" is unfair I think. We all care about Universe, including KDE packages
[01:15] <Q-FUNK> or, as pointed by the ion upstream on debian, maybe a release ought to only be a core platform consisting of CLI tools, server daemons and X, while desktop apps would only release via backports.
[01:15] <LaserJock> just because we are unaware of everything going on with every package doesn't mean we don't care
[01:15] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: Ewwww
[01:15] <Fujitsu> There aren't enough of us to have any of us not caring about everything.
[01:15] <imbrandon> LaserJock, you just said "not tracking kubuntu" whats the diffrence in what me and you said other then you were more polite about it ?
[01:15] <Fujitsu> I have to agree with StevenK.
[01:15] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Which bit?
[01:15] <LaserJock> imbrandon: because no tracking is different than not care
[01:15] <Fujitsu> StevenK: The `Ewwww'
[01:16] <LaserJock> I care deeply about what happens with Kubuntu and KDE packages in Universe
[01:16] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: There's a difference between not watching every move, and completely ignoring.
[01:16] <LaserJock> I don't have time to follow everything that's going on though
[01:16] <Q-FUNK> let's face it, with the sheer volume of free software out there, it's become impossible to release the latest of absolutely everything in one shot.
[01:16] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: We're not Gentoo.
[01:16] <imbrandon> i got to fix my db, lets all kiss and take it back to the ML
[01:17] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: We don't try to, or *want* to.
[01:17] <Fujitsu> Maintaining the archive in a release-ready steady constantly would be unpleasant
[01:17] <LaserJock> well, I still haven't gotten an answer to my question on the ML of usability of these packages
[01:17] <Q-FUNK> ubuntu has the right attitude of having ony stuff in main being guaranteed to ship the latest upstream, but with 3 desktops to track, releasing them al according to gnome's schedule doesn't work.
[01:17] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: So take it to the Tech Board
[01:17] <LaserJock> last time I tried doing some KDE4 stuff I was told that the snapshot packages are going to be always outdated and I shouldn't use them
[01:17] <StevenK> I'd be curious to read the log.
[01:18] <LaserJock> is that still the case?
[01:18] <imbrandon> LaserJock, no
[01:18] <LaserJock> or are these special snapshots?
[01:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: they're somewhat usable.  they'll be more usable when they hit the library freezes
[01:18] <Q-FUNK> it would probably help to have at least upstream gnome and kde agree on a common release schedule
[01:18] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Library freezes are post-Feisty, aren't they?
[01:18] <LaserJock> these are the questions that I wish we had gotten to
[01:18] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dunno.  i think so, yeah.
[01:18] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: That's not going to happen.
[01:18] <imbrandon> LaserJock, no but you got to think, parts may not be but its a whole lot better than building 300MB + of source only when you just need libs updated
[01:18] <imbrandon> you can use the binarys for the rest
[01:18] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: in fact, i'm sure it's so
[01:19] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: but we cant tell the kde development people to run feisty+1 with kernel and xorg breakage, just to get the latest kde4 - that's nto fair.
[01:19] <Fujitsu> We need experimental, damnit.
[01:19] <StevenK> Oh, we so don't.
[01:19] <LaserJock> I just felt that there was no explanation as to why these packages were important enough to warrant UVFe and FFe
[01:19] <StevenK> That's one headache from Debian we don't need.
[01:19] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: whch is precisely what makes free software such a drag to maintain.   either we finally get a common DE or either of the popular desktops is always gonna be 1 or 2 releases late.
[01:19] <StevenK> PPA would solve this, you know?
[01:19] <LaserJock> yes
[01:20] <imbrandon> LaserJock, because no one asked for an explination ( before starting to say WTF )
[01:20] <StevenK> Oh damn it, I didn't want to get sucked into this argument.
[01:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I really don't think that's the case
[01:20] <Fujitsu> StevenK: It is inevitable.
[01:20] <Fujitsu> You will be assimilated.
[01:20] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I'll ass-laminate you...
[01:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: siretart asked Riddell a number of questions both in IRC and by email and didn't get much of a reply
[01:21] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: true that. most people would know "it's kde4, a lot of kde developers run kubuntu, we need to get them easy access to kde4"
[01:21] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: which i think is in the spec, too
[01:21] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: that's not exactly my point
[01:21] <LaserJock> my experience is I talk to KDE and Kubuntu devs and they say they wouldn't use them
[01:22] <imbrandon> LaserJock, thats because alot of what siretart was asking had already been hasehed out over the past months, it was disrespectfull imho not to go back and read the prior disscussion and just pop in and say "whats up"
[01:22] <LaserJock> so I'm like "hmm, why are we worrying about them then?"
[01:22] <imbrandon> LaserJock, well that experince is 100000% off base
[01:22] <LaserJock> imbrandon: we were given no prior discussion
[01:22] <imbrandon> LaserJock, omg you never looked
[01:22] <LaserJock> well, tell me otherwise!
[01:22] <LaserJock> don't just yell at me!
[01:22] <imbrandon> there is a ML, irc logs, the spec , etc etc etc
[01:22] <LaserJock> imbrandon: all we were given is KC wants UVFe
[01:23] <LaserJock> no link to spec
[01:23] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: true.  they're of very limited values before the library freeze  - but we cant really dump new packages into feisty at that point
[01:23] <imbrandon> ok and?
[01:23] <LaserJock> I mean, I just didn't feel like enough info was provided
[01:23] <Fujitsu> There we go. Hobbsee has said the packages are unuseful. QED.
[01:23] <LaserJock> and much of a case made
[01:23] <imbrandon> LaserJock, you sooo need to listen to poisonus people
[01:24] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: read what i said.  yet.
[01:25] <esaym> how does one use pbuilder to build both edgy debs and dapper debs?
[01:25] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: but that's also my point
[01:25] <esaym> Like right now it is set up for dapper, how would I set it up for edgy
[01:25] <LaserJock> it would seem that the library freeze packages would be the most helpful
[01:25] <Fujitsu> esaym: You need to create an edgy pbuilder.
[01:25] <LaserJock> but we don't have a sane way of getting them into Feisty in Universe
[01:25] <esaym> ok so just do a pbuilder create edgy ?
[01:25] <esaym> but wont that overwrite all the dapper stuff?
[01:26] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.
[01:26] <LaserJock> so why don't we put them in Feisty+1 and backport to Riddell's repo
[01:26] <esaym> or will it make separate?
[01:26] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: excluding on kubuntu.org.  but no one apart from ridell has access to that.
[01:26] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: which is the only reason they're not there already, i think.
[01:26] <LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't really seem to be a Universe issue
[01:27] <LaserJock> if Riddell needs access to more machines or resources I'm sure we can find some
[01:27] <Hobbsee> it is, but only as the other solution is to stick them in universe
[01:27] <LaserJock> ok, to be a little more concrete and productive
[01:28] <lucas> Q-FUNK: if you want to play with bets, I bet that feisty will release on time, but that simple metrics will be able to show that it is of much worse quality than etch ;)
[01:28] <LaserJock> how many of the packages will be useful beyond the KDE library freeze?
[01:28] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: as in, after the freeze?  the updated versoins?  all of them, i would expect.
[01:28] <bmm_> I get a "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution" rejection from REVU, what am I doing wrong?
[01:29] <Hobbsee> bmm_: you're running dput revu *.changes?  are you in the link in the topic?
[01:29] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I mean, how many of the packages you want to put in Feisty will be useful after the library Freeze
[01:29] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: at the current versions, or the post freeze versions?
[01:30] <bmm_> Yes, I am part of the launchpad group.
[01:30] <LaserJock> the versions you want in Feisty
[01:30] <bmm_> But I didn't ask you guys to "sync with revu" though, that might be the problem?
[01:30] <Hobbsee> well, for the ones post-libfreeze, all of htem, or almost all of them
[01:30] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You're requesting pre-libfreeze, aren't you?
[01:30] <LaserJock> I mean, could a person install everything via Feisty, and be pretty much set to work after the library Freeze?
[01:31] <LaserJock> I can't imagine it'd quite work that way
[01:31] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: at the moment yes, to update again later.  from my understanding
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Oh, gawd.
[01:31] <LaserJock> update when?
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Mass UVF exceptions post-release....
[01:31] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: not currently, ie, we cant ship codefrozen product before it's written, you know....
[01:31] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: that's our point
[01:32] <bmm_> Hobbsee: I'm part of the launchpad group, changelog has "feisty; urgency=low", I'm doing dput -f iolanguage_20070226-1_source.changes
[01:32] <bmm_> Hobbsee: the -f was because I first got a rejection for "unstable; urgency=low"
[01:32] <LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out how we are going to get useful packages to people 2-3 months after Feisty is released
[01:32] <Hobbsee> fine, so say it doesnt go in at all, until the libfreeze is hit - but then we cant put in new packages at all
[01:32] <LaserJock> exactly
[01:32] <Hobbsee> bmm_: you need to include revu in there
[01:33] <Hobbsee> so, we just say "you want kde4, too bad, move to feisty+1"
[01:33] <LaserJock> but we can't/shouln't put in new upstream versions even if the packages do exist
[01:33] <Hobbsee> which also seems like a crap solution
[01:33] <bmm_> Hobbsee: ooh.. ok. I'll fix that...
[01:33] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No, we say `use the kubuntu.org repos for Feisty'
[01:33] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: no, I thought that's what Riddell's repo was for
[01:33] <Hobbsee> (which is what the KC discussed, incidently)
[01:33] <bmm_> Hobbsee: thanks!
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they're treated the same as universe, or almost the same.
[01:34] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I totally think those packages need to be available, but given our freezes and SRU processes it doesn't seem like the best place, IMO
[01:34] <Hobbsee> quite true.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> still, there's no perfect place, and i'm not sure where the best place would be.
[01:34] <LaserJock> Riddell's repo is no good?
[01:35] <LaserJock> I usually get stuff from there
[01:35] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: it's i386 only, and riddell's the only one who has access to it.
[01:35] <LaserJock> if I want latest KDE packages
[01:35] <Hobbsee> (to the website at all)
[01:35] <Hobbsee> afaik, non-canonical employees cant get access to update it?
[01:35] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: ok, but that seems to be his/Kubuntu's issue
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Create a KDE4 repo/component, then.
[01:35] <LaserJock> I just think we can come up with a better solution
[01:36] <LaserJock> I mean, Universe does solve the immediate issue of upload access and archs
[01:36] <LaserJock> but then you have to stick to Universe schedules
[01:36] <LaserJock> which sucks in this case
[01:37] <LaserJock> if I had anything but i386 I'd offer to help
[01:37] <LaserJock> if I had enough bandwidth I'd offer to host a repo
[01:38] <StevenK> I have amd64, and have (privately) offered to help.
[01:38] <LaserJock> it's certainly that I don't care about Kubuntu or KDE
[01:38] <LaserJock> *not
[01:38] <LaserJock> sorry ;-)
[01:38] <LaserJock> darn it
[01:38] <bmm_> Hobbsee: sorry to have to ask, but I can't find how to "add revu" to the changelog like: should it be "feisty-revu; urgency=low" ?
[01:38] <LaserJock> no
[01:39] <StevenK> bmm_: Not the changelog, the dput command line
[01:39] <LaserJock> bmm_: it should just be feisty
[01:39] <Hobbsee> bmm_: use dput revu *.changes
[01:39] <LaserJock> bmm_: dput revu <path to >_source.changes
[01:39] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: not *.change, _source.changes :-)
[01:39] <Hobbsee> rm the .upload file, and it'll stop telling you it's already uploaded
[01:39] <bmm_> Ah, doing that now. Thank!
[01:39] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: good point.
[01:39] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I always forget that too
[01:40] <LaserJock> I'm so used to just having source .changes
[01:40] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, as long as you dont build binaries without the pbuilder, it never comes up
[01:40] <LaserJock> until I started cleaning out all the i386.changes out of incoming :-)
[01:40] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: exactly
[01:40] <LaserJock> it seems people often do
[01:40] <StevenK> I've gotten used to _source.changes that I nearly threw one to debian
[01:41] <Q-FUNK> we should have source uploads too
[01:41] <Q-FUNK> silly to upload binaries
[01:41] <Q-FUNK> ubuntu sis the right thing on this one
[01:42] <Q-FUNK> did...
[01:42] <StevenK> I quite like source-only uploads. I'm not certain if it's the right thing for Debian.
[01:42] <esaym> how do I use apt-get to only download a deb and not install it?  apt-get -d?
[01:43] <Q-FUNK> it is.  too many packages get uploaded to debian as i386 binaries with incorrect dependencies that don't get fixed because there's not enough people on non-i386 to make it a priority for developers.
[01:43] <Q-FUNK> or rather, with borken build-depends
[01:44] <Hobbsee> esaym: yes.  man apt-get will tell you, as well
[01:44] <StevenK> Fire RC-bugs at them. Failure to build on releaseable arches is RC.
[01:44] <Q-FUNK> if they only allowed source builds, nobody gets the newest of whatever until it builds correctly on the buildd.
[01:44] <Q-FUNK> it sure is, but I've seen cases where it doesn't get fixed.
[01:45] <Q-FUNK> ermm.... source uploads
[01:45] <StevenK> NMU?
[01:45] <StevenK> Debian has procedures for this sort of thing
[01:45] <Q-FUNK> some maintainers are known to revert NMU on their pcakages
[01:46] <Q-FUNK> only allowing source uploads would add an extra safeguard that compels maintainers to fix their mess.
[01:46] <StevenK> Or have them ignore it.
[01:46] <Q-FUNK> not really.  if it doesn't build, it doesn't make it to unstable on any arch at all.
[01:47] <esaym> Hobbsee:  I tried apt-get -d but got an error.  I am on dapper and I need to get the edgy xmms deb.  The link on ubuntu packages is down :(
[01:47] <Q-FUNK> the traditional excuse with i386 uploads is that it works on i386, so it must be soe arch-specific bug. there.  ignored.
[01:47] <Hobbsee> esaym: the xmms edgy deb will likely not work on dapper.  you need to rebuild it.
[01:47] <Q-FUNK> they don't even bother checking if indeed is incorect build-depends.
[01:49] <esaym> Yes I am back porting the one on fiesty to dapper.  I wanted to look at the edgy one to see if the backported one for dapper will work on edgy....
[01:49] <danohuiginn> heh. bug 28763 has been waiting with a patch for a year, because nobody can work out if it's in universe or main. Efficient ;)
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28763 in lshw "Missing .desktop file" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/28763
[01:49] <Hobbsee> danohuiginn: yes.  i've looked at that.  it's clearly main.
[01:50] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison lshw | grep archive
[01:50] <Hobbsee>       lshw | 02.08.01-1ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Packages
[01:50] <Hobbsee>       lshw | 02.08.01-1ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Sources
[01:50] <Hobbsee> i think it bounced to universe for a while there, though
[01:51] <Fujitsu> The source has always been in main.
[01:51] <Hobbsee> so someone's just incompetent, as the binary was in universe for a while, so they put it under as universe.
[01:52] <danohuiginn> now I understand why the bug-fixing procedure is "write a fix, then hassle devs on irc until they commit it"
[01:52] <Hobbsee> (the developer who did it, that is, by saying "the binary is in universe, we cant fix it")
[01:52] <Hobbsee> danohuiginn: i dont have permissions to upload that to main.  until someone from main steps up and does it, it wont get done.  simple as that.
[01:52] <danohuiginn> ah, well, it happens. just made me smile
[01:52] <Hobbsee> ditto to most oftthe other u-u-s people
[02:04] <bmm> Do you get any mail notifications when REVU accepts or rejects your entry?
[02:06] <cbx33> hey guys...
[02:06] <cbx33> you know the Install icon on the desktop of the live CD
[02:06] <cbx33> how do i remove it
[02:11] <bmm> Oh, wait, there is a 5 minute interval in the checks. So that is probably why I havn't heard anything yet :-)
[02:14] <esaym> anyone know what would cause this error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10475/
[02:15] <Hobbsee> bmm: it doesnt send mail.  will be on teh front REVU page though
[02:15] <esaym> I am trying to backport xmms from fiesty to dapper with pbuilder, I got that error while it was building though
[02:15] <esaym> got a similar error while building python2.5 the otherday too....
[02:16] <Hobbsee> esaym: /tmp/buildd/xmms-1.2.10+20061201/Input/mikmod/.libs/libmikmod.so: No such file or directory - ie, it's only in a later version of whatever has that
[02:17] <esaym> Hobbsee: sorry I don't follow, could you clarify a bit? 
[02:17] <esaym> what do you mean? a later version of what?
[02:17] <cbx333> does anyone know where the Install icon is stored 
[02:17] <cbx333> in the ubuntu live cd
[02:17] <cbx333> i'd like to get rid of it for a customised live cd
[02:18] <Hobbsee> esaym: a later version of the package that actually contains libmikmod.so.  This is why you dont backport stuff over multiple releases in most cases, btw.
[02:18] <Hobbsee> or even one release
[02:18] <LaserJock> cbx333: it's not exactly "stored" it's created on boot
[02:18] <esaym> Oh, interesting.  So I guess I am screwed then?
[02:18] <cbx333> ok what script stores it
[02:18] <LaserJock> cbx333: you'll need to modify the casper stuff that creates the Livecd user
[02:18] <cbx333> oh ok
[02:18] <cbx333> thanks
[02:19] <cbx333> do you know where those scripts are?
[02:20] <Hobbsee> esaym: not exactly, but it's probably harder than you're expecting, may well require you to backport multiple things
[02:21] <esaym> Hmm, I've got the time,  I will poke around a bit
[02:22] <jdong> aww, Hobbsee said the B word :)
[02:22] <Hobbsee> jdong: indeed.  would you like to backport xmms from feisty to dapper?
[02:22] <jdong> Hobbsee: ask me on Friday :)
[02:22] <esaym> lol, Hey thats my project!
[02:23] <esaym> there is really no point,  I am only backporting the xmms-wma package which went fine,  I figured I would go ahead and do xmms while I was at it though
[02:23] <esaym> I thought
[02:24] <jdong> So what's the plan for nVidia drivers in the future?
[02:24] <jdong> Are we to have nvidia-legacy, nvidia-pluslegacy, and nvidia-doublepluslegacy? :D
[02:28] <cbx333> LaserJock: it's ok I got it
[02:29] <LaserJock> cbx333: sorry, too much stuff going on right now :-)
[02:29] <bmm> Yeah! It all worked! Thanks for the help all.
[02:31] <cbx333> that's fine
[02:31] <cbx333> ;)
[02:32] <jdong> Hobbsee: aren't you *excited*? New Beryl out today :D
[02:33] <jdong> I bet you're jumping up and down with nothing but pure joy :)
[02:33] <LaserJock> "Black Wednesday"
[02:33] <jdong> LaserJock: because it was White Wednesday last time....
[02:33] <jdong> well the WSOD is fixed
[02:33] <jdong> and Xgl works for all I know :)
[02:33] <Hobbsee> jdong: would it pass the inclusion into ubuntu test?
[02:34] <jdong> Hobbsee: from the end-user experience side, I'd say yes
[02:34] <jdong> Hobbsee: but I have no idea how the packaging looks
[02:35] <cbx333> can I just edit the splash.pcx file in the isolinux live folder?
[02:35] <cbx333> New Beryl?
[02:35] <cbx333> cool
[02:35] <jdong> cbx333: fixes the infamous white-screen-of-death syndrome
[02:35] <jdong> without the need for copy workarounds.
[02:35] <cbx333> ;)
[02:36] <jdong> lucky bastard :)
[02:36] <jdong> well here I was symlinking and copying random things around till it worked :D
[02:38] <Lutin> heya jdong 
[02:39] <jdong> hi Lutin
[02:40] <Lutin> jdong: do you think a backport of mozilla-imagezoom would be ok to fix bug #88581 ?
[02:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88581 in imagezoom "mozilla-imagezoom is not compatible with Firefox 2.0.0.x" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88581
[02:41] <jdong> launchpad just gave me a binary mime-type file on that url.
[02:41] <jdong> ok, loading now
[02:41] <jdong> Lutin: that should be handled via SRU
[02:41] <jdong> now that SRU is less PITA.
[02:42] <Lutin> jdong: ok, will do a sru then
[02:43] <jdong> thanks
[03:02] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:03] <zakame> heya bddebian, *
[03:03] <bddebian> Hi zakame
[03:03] <geser> Hi bddebian
[03:03] <bddebian> Heya geser
[03:04] <bddebian> zakame: Theres a few GNU/Hurd ones ;-P
[03:04] <geser> bddebian: like release GNU/Hurd?
[03:04] <jdong> there's still people who care about that thing?
[03:04] <zakame> bddebian: have you seen the GNU ideas?
[03:05] <zakame> its pretty much asking for doc processing work :/
[03:05] <bddebian> jdong: Yes but RMS isn't one of them ;-P
[03:05] <jdong> bddebian: oh there's enough facial hair to go around.
[03:05] <bddebian> zakame: No, not for us
[03:06] <jdong> bddebian: that is his primary source of funding, no?
[03:06] <bddebian> geser: Yeah, ,that'd be nice :-)
[03:07] <zakame> whoa is that xp product code? :P
[03:12] <esaym> alright I backported libmikmod2-dev from fiesty which has libmikmod.so but I still get the same error http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10475/
[03:12] <esaym> For the new folks I am trying to backport xmms from fiesty to dapper
[03:50] <verwilst> if you do an invoke-rc.d restart
[03:50] <verwilst> but the service isn't running
[03:50] <verwilst> what is the recommended behaviour
[03:50] <verwilst> error out, or just start the service?
[03:51] <Lutin> verwilst: basically in init.d scripts, restart is stop + start, so I'd say just start it
[03:51] <verwilst> and start, if the program is already running?
[03:51] <verwilst> exit 0 or 1?
[03:52] <geser> restart = stop and restart the service if it's already running, otherwise start the service (from the Debian policy)
[03:52] <verwilst> because snmpd returns 1 a lot
[03:52] <verwilst> which breaks my scripts :)
[03:53] <verwilst> i'll report a bug
[03:53] <verwilst> and a status parameter
[03:53] <verwilst> that's not deprecated i guess?
[04:51] <allee> siretart: hi,  I'm right now setting up an feisty install env.  Question is: should I stick with what's in feisty or merge 3.1.8 bugfixes and start testing with this, then ask for UVF?
[05:01] <siretart> allee: it would be great if you could prepare a fai-kernels package using 2.6.20.
[05:02] <siretart> allee: I think the fai in feisty should/could still work. if you have problems, I wouldn't object to grant an UVF for fai
[05:02] <allee> siretart: ah right, that's also missing.
[05:02] <siretart> (for the interested reader: I'm following the fai development)
[05:06] <bddebian> Heya siretart
[05:11] <pochu> siretart: can you review bug 90407 ?
[05:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
[05:11] <pochu> see u folks!
[05:30] <jwendell> dholbach, i've rebuild a new version of gnomesword, should i submit it to revu?
[05:31] <dholbach> jwendell: what is it? a new version? a rebuild? some changes?
[05:31] <jwendell> dholbach, a rebuild with a few changes (maintainer, for example)
[05:31] <dholbach> right
[05:32] <dholbach> the normal sponsoring process is outlined over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[05:32] <dholbach> simply file a bug, attach a debdiff, assign to ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[05:32] <dholbach> they'll pick it up and upload it
[05:33] <jwendell> dholbach, ah ok (the bug is already created :))
[05:33] <dholbach> super
[05:33] <LaserJock> jwendell: once you do ^^ ping me and I'll try to have a look
[05:34] <jwendell> LaserJock, just a minute ;)
[05:35] <jwendell> LaserJock, sorry? i don't use pbuilder :(
[05:35] <LaserJock> nah, I'm updating my pbuilder while you are debdiffing
[05:37] <LaserJock> oh, btw
[05:37] <LaserJock> dholbach might be intersted in this
[05:38] <dholbach> in what?
[05:38] <jwendell> should i assign or just subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors ?
[05:38] <LaserJock> today at the Launchpad Dev meeting they approved the "motu" tag for launchpad bugs
[05:38] <LaserJock> jwendell: subscribe is fine I think
[05:38] <dholbach> LaserJock: in what?
[05:38] <LaserJock> dholbach: for bugs in Launchpad
[05:38] <dholbach> could you elaborate?
[05:38] <LaserJock> against
[05:39] <LaserJock> so if there is a LP bug that is particularly important for us
[05:39] <dholbach> ah ok
[05:39] <LaserJock> I can give it the "motu" tag
[05:39] <dholbach> nice
[05:39] <LaserJock> and LP devs will know it's high priority for us
[05:41] <geser> LaserJock: does it also apply for bugs filed against soyuz?
[05:41] <LaserJock> geser: yes
[05:41] <LaserJock> any launchpad product
[05:41] <LaserJock> let me know what ones and I'll organize them
[05:43] <joejaxx> :)
[05:45] <jwendell> LaserJock, can i gzip debdiff? (it has 1.5MB)
[05:45] <LaserJock> 1.5MB??
[05:45] <LaserJock> that's a bit more than a few changes
[05:45] <man-di> LaserJock: a small bit
[05:45] <jwendell> LaserJock, configure stuff
[05:46] <geser> LaserJock: any idea who I can poke about bug #87077? infinity is hard to reach these days
[05:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
[05:46] <rexbron> bddebian: ping, I have gotten 2 acks for a UVF. Would you beable to upload the updated source?
[05:47] <rexbron> bddebian: bug 88908
[05:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88908 in murrine "[UVFe]  update to 0.51" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88908
[05:47] <LaserJock> geser: hmm, not sure
[05:48] <LaserJock> jwendell: just attach it to the bug report and I'll have a look
[05:49] <jwendell> dholbach, i've detected an error in upstream configure script. I changed configure.in and ran autoconf. Everythink worked ok, but size of diff got 1.5MB. Is there any other way to do this?
[05:49] <dholbach> you could run autoconf in debian/rules
[05:50] <dholbach> i'd rather keep the diff until upstream fixed it
[05:50] <dholbach> but that's up to you
[05:51] <jwendell> dholbach, how can i run autoconf in debian/rules?
[05:52] <dholbach> i'm quite busy atm - I'd prefer if you asked somebody else - you'll also need to build-depend on autoconf
[05:53] <LaserJock> jwendell: for now we can probably deal with it as is
[05:54] <jwendell> LaserJock, the problem is: since that hour, when i said '1 minute' i'm trying to upload the debdiff into the bug...
[05:54] <LaserJock> heh
[05:56] <LaserJock> jwendell: would email work better for you?
[05:57] <jwendell> LaserJock, bug 92489
[05:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92489 in gnomesword "[feisty]  unmet dependencies (libgtkhtml3.8-15)" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92489
[06:03] <LaserJock> jwendell: ok, so what exactly did you do?
[06:04] <LaserJock> just the changelog, Maintainer field, dep change, and that patch?
[06:04] <jwendell> LaserJock, dropped 2 patches not used;
[06:04] <LaserJock> dropped them from the Debian package?
[06:04] <jwendell> LaserJock, yep
[06:04] <LaserJock> do they cause problems?
[06:04] <jwendell> not used
[06:05] <jwendell> not used
[06:05] <LaserJock> ok, then lest keep those
[06:05] <LaserJock> the rule of the game right now is to minimize the changes we make from Debian
[06:05] <jwendell> LaserJock, change configure.in (and consequently configure) to include libgnomeprint and libgnomeprintui 
[06:05] <LaserJock> we can then file bugs, etc. in Debian to get things changed
[06:06] <jwendell> LaserJock, changed changelog :P
[06:06] <jwendell> LaserJock, changed control (maintainers and build-dep)
[06:06] <LaserJock> right
[06:06] <jwendell> LaserJock, changed 3 lines on src/gnome2/html.c, with compiler errors
[06:07] <jwendell> LaserJock, but i just saw that there is a new upstream version, 2.2.2.1, should i try it?
[06:09] <LaserJock> no
[06:10] <LaserJock> jwendell: so you took out window_title.diff and strongs_search.diff?
[06:10] <jwendell> LaserJock, yep
[06:11] <LaserJock> were the html.c changes a part of the gtkhtml patch stuff?
[06:13] <jwendell> LaserJock, i was getting errors about libgtkhtml, so i saw that there was changes in some gtk_html_print functions
[06:13] <jwendell> LaserJock, i just renamed 2 function calls
[06:14] <LaserJock> jwendell: so maybe those should go in 02_fix_gtkhtml_print.patch?
[06:15] <jwendell> LaserJock, yep
[06:19] <LaserJock> ok, so if you don't drop those 2 patches
[06:20] <LaserJock> but the html.c changes in the gtkhtml patch
[06:20] <LaserJock> *put
[06:20] <LaserJock> you might want to see if the control.in changes should go in that patch as well
[06:21] <LaserJock> that should cut down the debdiff a fair amount
[06:22] <jwendell> LaserJock, i dropped control.in
[06:23] <jwendell> forgot to say
[06:54] <ScottK> If we haven't had the beta freeze yet, I'd appreciate if if someone from UUS would take a look at Bug #92569 and upload the patch if it's packaged correctly. 
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92569 in libspf2 "Intermittent incorrect SPF results" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92569
[06:55] <LaserJock> beta freeze doesn't effect Universe exactly
[06:55] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.  Cool.
[07:09] <X3N> Are there any known problems with the repostories for feisty at the moment ?
[07:11] <LaserJock> not that I know of
[07:12] <X3N> I'm having lots of dependencies not being met
[07:15] <jussi01> repos are working fine for me, had to update pbuilder yesterday though
[07:19] <ScottK> X3N: I tried to update my Feisty box a few hours ago from the US repo and it looked like there was a kernel update only partially propogated.
[07:20] <X3N> hmm
[07:20] <X3N> which servers are the most reliable ?
[07:22] <LaserJock> PriceChild: pingy pingy
[07:22] <PriceChild> pong LaserJock 
[07:22] <LaserJock> PriceChild: czester in -devel is complaining about you banning people
[07:22] <PriceChild> LaserJock, We're under a troll attack
[07:23] <LaserJock> PriceChild: are you in #ubuntu-ops?
[07:23] <PriceChild> Yeah
[07:23] <PriceChild> Sorry about this LaserJock 
[07:23] <LaserJock> np dude, just wanted to let you know
[07:25] <X3N> i've got stuck in dependency hell, anyway out ?
[07:26] <X3N> 9 conflicts and aptidute can't work out a solution
[07:26] <LaserJock> what does a apt-get dist-upgrade give you?
[07:27] <X3N> all the errors for the unmet dependencies
[07:28] <LaserJock> what kind of unmet deps
[07:29] <X3N> for example python-examples depends on python 2.5 but 2.4 is installed
[07:29] <X3N> which is infact wrong
[07:29] <X3N> as python --version gives 2.5
[07:30] <LaserJock> I haven't got anything like that
[08:39] <fernando> hi all. what's the better way to create a local ubuntu mirror? apt-mirror?
[08:39] <LaserJock> you could also rsync
[08:40] <LaserJock> or debmirror
[08:40] <LaserJock> or reprepro
[08:40] <LaserJock> kinda depends on what you have in mind
[08:40] <fernando> many choices :P
[08:41] <LaserJock> it's Linux!
[08:41] <LaserJock> :-)
[08:41] <fernando> heheh
[08:41] <fernando> right
[09:04] <pochu> ajmitch: please, if you have a moment, could you review bug 90407? thanks in advance :)
[09:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
[09:13] <dholbach> is doomrunner.lists@gmail.com here?
[09:14] <dholbach> I'll turn off motu mails to your account - they get all bounced like mad
[09:17] <dholbach> ok, mailed him (to another address)
[09:47] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping ping ring ring
[09:49] <bddebian> Later gang
[09:50] <LaserJock> cya bddebian 
[09:50] <LaserJock> bah
[09:50] <LaserJock> always too late
[09:50] <ajmitch> he always departs so fast
[09:51] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heya.
[09:52] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: read what I just said in #launchpad
[09:52] <Fujitsu> I just did.
[09:52] <Fujitsu> Works fine for me.
[09:52] <LaserJock> I only got 11 bugs for motuscience :(
[09:52] <Fujitsu> You sure you haven't got some other filter on?
[09:53] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[09:53] <LaserJock> ok, I've started out at ~motuscience/+subscribedbugs
[09:54] <LaserJock> is that the problem?
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[09:54] <LaserJock> k
[09:54] <Fujitsu> That would only search in that list.
[09:54] <LaserJock> where should I be doing it then?
[09:54] <Fujitsu> You want to start in /ubuntu
[09:54] <Fujitsu> It's the same as a normal search. It only searches within the specified context.
[09:55] <LaserJock> well, I guess I figured since ~motuscience was the bug contact I was looking for it'd make sense ;-)
[09:56] <Fujitsu> Sort of. but that's not how LP works. If something makes sense, you're probably doing it the wrong way.
[09:57] <crimsun> tsmithe: you can email bdmurray, TheMuso, _MMA_, and myself
[09:57] <crimsun> tsmithe: it's more important to get the minutes up on wiki.uc
[09:57] <tsmithe> sure thing
[09:57] <tsmithe> yea - i just want people to be clued up on what's happening :)
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Do we still not have a tag for bugs that just require .desktop changes/additions?
[10:03] <dholbach> if you add one, also add 'bitesize' and add it to BugSquad/Tags
[10:03] <LaserJock> I thought we had one
[10:03] <Fujitsu> There isn't one on the page dholbach mentioned.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> Anybody got any recommendations for what name to use?
[10:08] <LaserJock> perhaps desktop-file ?
[10:08] <LaserJock> do we know the character constraints?
[10:08] <Fujitsu> I believe hyphens are OK.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> If not, I'll find out in a sec.
[10:15] <LaserJock> desktop is too general
[10:15] <LaserJock> I don't know if .desktop would work
[10:16] <Fujitsu> I can't see any tags using .s
[10:16] <Fujitsu> And desktop is too general.
[10:16] <Fujitsu> desktop-file is pretty good.
[10:19] <crimsun> how about missing-desktop-file to make it even more descriptive?
[10:20] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:20] <honestlyenough> How does the naming scheme of Ubuntu packages work?
[10:21] <Fujitsu> But then we've got some that are the wrong category or similar... missing-desktop-file doesn't fit for them.
[10:21] <LaserJock> what do you mean by naming?
[10:21] <LaserJock> versioning?
[10:21] <honestlyenough> If I have (source version) 0.1 on a package called mypackage, do I need to add anything beyond mypackage-0.1 ?
[10:21] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh, right
[10:21] <honestlyenough> Yes, versioning would be more accurately describing what I'm asking.
[10:21] <LaserJock> honestlyenough: yes
[10:22] <LaserJock> Debian puts on a -X where X is an integer
[10:22] <Fujitsu> honestlyenough: The name of the package is simply mypackage.
[10:22] <LaserJock> so mypackages-0.1-1
[10:22] <honestlyenough> LaserJock: I've seen -1ubuntu3 and what not, but that serves only to confuse me.
[10:22] <LaserJock> honestlyenough: in that examlple -1 is the Debian version
[10:22] <honestlyenough> LaserJock: What does the 3 represent?
[10:22] <LaserJock> Ubuntu revision
[10:22] <honestlyenough> LaserJock: Gothca. But what about if I wanted this package to make it into the repository?
[10:22] <honestlyenough> LaserJock: The Ubuntu universe repository specifically.
[10:23] <LaserJock> if it's not in Debian then the Debian revision is 0
[10:23] <Fujitsu> It would be mypackage, version 0.1-0ubuntu1
[10:23] <LaserJock> so -0ubuntu1
[10:23] <honestlyenough> Ahhhh.
[10:23] <honestlyenough> So what's the difference between the Ubuntu revision number and the Debian version number?
[10:23] <honestlyenough> Ah, thanks a bunch.
[10:24] <Fujitsu> The Ubuntu revision is changes made in Ubuntu, and Debian is for those made by Debian.
[10:24] <crimsun> Fujitsu: fair enough, though it would probably be better to enumerate additional tags IMO
[10:24] <Fujitsu> crimsun: They're all trivial, and should be lumped together IMO.
[10:24] <Fujitsu> Otherwise we're going to end up with an enormous number of widely-used tags.
[10:25] <danohuiginn> honestlyenough: if you use dch -i to edit the changelog, it'll sort out the version number for you (I believe)
[10:25] <honestlyenough> Maybe this is a bit offtopic, but if I submitted this to Debian, and it somehow made it through their process, would I still keep mypackage-1ubuntu3 for their releases as well?
[10:25] <honestlyenough> Or would it be something entirely different like mypackage-0.1-1
[10:25] <honestlyenough> The mypackage-1ubuntu3 was supposed to be mypackage-0.1-1ubuntu3
[10:25] <Fujitsu> honestlyenough: mypackage 0.1-1 would be the first debian release.
[10:26] <Fujitsu> honestlyenough: For a new package in ubuntu, it's 0.1-0ubuntu1, not -1ubuntu1
[10:26] <honestlyenough> Gotcha. So strip out the Ubuntu specific stuff then.
[10:26] <honestlyenough> Okay, it's all clear now :)
[10:26] <honestlyenough> You guys are a helpful bunch, maybe this is why Ubuntu is so popular :)
[10:27] <LaserJock> of course ;-)
[10:28] <LaserJock> honestlyenough: if you are interested in more packaging info we have a packaging guide
[10:28] <LaserJock> !packagingguide
[10:28] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[10:29] <honestlyenough> LaserJock: An Ubuntu specific packaging guide? I've read through the Debian one a few times.
[10:29] <honestlyenough> Hmm, okay, I'll take a look.
[10:29] <honestlyenough> Hmm, I can't seem to join the #ubuntu channel (I'm using tor). Out of curiosity, why is tor banned there? It certainly isn't banned here.
[10:29] <LaserJock>  #ubuntu gets a lot of attacks
[10:29] <Fujitsu> There have been a lot of attacks from tor-based users.
[10:30] <Fujitsu> (it has over 1000 people in it, most of the time)
[10:31] <TheMuso> c
[10:31] <TheMuso> gah
[10:31] <honestlyenough> Ah. That's a shame.
[10:31] <crimsun> Fujitsu: sounds fair
[10:31] <Fujitsu> crimsun: So, we just have the one?
[10:32] <LaserJock> I think it's not quite so useful to seperate them
[10:32] <LaserJock> they're basically all bitesize and similar
[10:33] <Fujitsu> That's what I think.
[10:34] <crimsun> Fujitsu: yes, just one
[10:35] <honestlyenough> Wow, the Ubuntu guide, in my humble opinion, is sooo much better than the Debian New Maintainer's Guide. This bias might have to do with the fact that I read the Debian guide first and thus know more of the terminology for the Ubuntu guide.
[10:35] <honestlyenough> But, nonetheless, the guide is really nicely designed -- website and all.
[10:35] <Fujitsu> The Ubuntu guide is more aimed at normal people, I think. It's a whole lot more readable.
[10:40] <LaserJock> honestlyenough: let us know if you find something wrong or confusing, there are a few bugs in there I already know about
[10:42] <LaserJock> \o/, new ubuntu.com is out
[10:43] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I noticed :)
[10:44] <Fujitsu> It's apparently Drupal based... How did they convince the sysadmins it was a good idea?
[10:44] <TheMuso> wow
[10:45] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I don't think it is drupal
[10:45] <TheMuso> Probably just using aliases.
[10:45] <Fujitsu> `You will soon see that the main www.ubuntu.com website has changed. It
[10:45] <Fujitsu> has a new look and is now based on the drupal CMS.'
[10:45] <LaserJock> oh
[10:45] <LaserJock> doh
[10:45] <Fujitsu> (mail from mnuzum on loco-contacts)
[10:46] <LaserJock> I guess it could have been worse ... wordpress
[10:46] <TheMuso> My guess is because the fridge is also drupal, they want to keep consistancy.
[10:46] <Fujitsu> The new one looks a whole lot nicer in some ways.
[10:46] <LaserJock> check out the download page
[10:46] <Fujitsu> Especially without the big useless block up the top.
[10:47] <Fujitsu> The tabbed thing, LaserJock?
[10:47] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: No idea. I thought the sysadmins would have screamed at the thought.
[10:47] <LaserJock> tabs with radio buttons
[10:47] <ajmitch> crazy, the only download mirror for NZ/Australia is ftp.citylink.co.nz
[10:48] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: traceroute to that address & see where it ends up :)
[10:48] <LaserJock> I see they fixed my server bug :-)
[10:48] <TheMuso> Probably because drupal is actually well maintained and supported upstream, and writing extra modules is very easy.
[10:48] <ajmitch> haha, australian mirrors are listed as in europe
[10:48] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Which one?
[10:48] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Great!
[10:49] <ajmitch> "Oceana"?
[10:49] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: on the "beta" version under the server tab both items were Ubuntu 6.06 :-)
[10:49] <jdong> ajmitch: hey, I read a book about that place once. they've got cool 2-way TV screens....
[10:49] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: A few piles would be better.
[10:49] <LaserJock> Australia vs Austria perhaps?
[10:50] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hahahahah.
[10:50] <LaserJock> no
[10:50] <LaserJock> I mean maybe that's what they accidently did
[10:50] <honestlyenough> Tangentially, I've got a really FUBAR'd machine. The CMOS battery, I suspect doesn't function. However, if the CMOS battery doesn't work, is that in any way a cause for this sort of behavior?: http://phpfi.com/215957
[10:50] <Fujitsu> Why is it Oceana/Australia!? Not only is Oceana spelt from, Australia is part of it anyway.
[10:51] <Fujitsu> Let's file bugs! Lots of them!
[10:51] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: exactly :)
[10:51] <LaserJock> yes, but the I think the thought the Australia items were Austria, hence would go in Europe
[10:51] <ajmitch> ftp.citylink.co.nz will probably go to the US for anyone that doesn't peer at APE or WIX
[10:51] <LaserJock> bug away
[10:51] <LaserJock> *bugs
[10:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's just funny that they list australia as a region, but the mirrors are in europe
[10:52] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: It seems to go through the US for me, but there's very little reverse-DNS available.
[10:52] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: yep
[10:52] <LaserJock> it really goes to the US?
[10:52] <Fujitsu> That sounds like it'd be /really/ fast.
[10:52] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yup.
[10:53] <ajmitch> whereas it's about 3ms from the work server to ftp.citylink.co.nz
[10:53] <TheMuso> whats everyone using? Tracepath
[10:53] <ajmitch> mtr
[10:53] <Fujitsu> mtr
[10:53] <Fujitsu> I get a little over 200ms.
[10:54] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: You on optus atm? Westnet goes through optus currently, so I'd say our routes would be very similar.
[10:55] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: I find Westnet does yield similar routes, yes.
[10:55] <TheMuso> haha
[10:56] <LaserJock> it'd be funny if they put everthing in Europe
[10:56] <LaserJock> a little geo-biased
[11:17] <Fujitsu> My ubuntu-website bug got its importance and assignee set within 4 minutes... They're good.
[11:18] <TheMuso> WOw!
[11:19] <Burgwork> Fujitsu: they are agressively attempting to fix all bugs
[11:23] <Fujitsu> Burgwork: Good to hear.
[11:28] <Burgwork> wow
[11:28] <Burgwork> bug stats is a bloody scary number
[11:32] <Fujitsu> Burgwork: > 24000?
[11:32] <Burgwork> http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/
[11:32] <Burgwork> look at that graph'
[11:32] <Burgwork> and be scared
[11:32] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[11:32] <Fujitsu> I look at it regularly
[11:33] <Fujitsu> We gained 3000 open bugs in February :-/
[11:33] <Burgwork> while I watch http://intihuatani.usc.edu/cloud/video.htm
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Oops, 2000.
[11:34] <honestlyenough> I wish I joined this channel earlier.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> honestlyenough: What's so good about it?
[11:34] <honestlyenough> You guys would have saved me a couple days of reading through the rather dry Debian New Package Maintainer's Guide.
[11:35] <honestlyenough> Fujitsu: The Ubuntu Packaging Guide is so much more helpful for me.
[11:35] <Fujitsu> What do people think about UTF-8 compatibility bugs? Wishlist? Low? Otherwise?
[11:35] <Fujitsu> honestlyenough: That's great to hear :)
[11:36] <Fujitsu> So, Burgwork: Fix bugs!
[11:38] <honestlyenough> Fujitsu: I asked a lot of these questions on the Debian channels and people were usually pretty responsive to them, but all of them could have been answered by this guide.
[11:38] <honestlyenough> Fujitsu: Oh, well. Lesson learned :)
[11:39] <honestlyenough> I suppose I should take some grammar lessons ;)
[11:40] <Fujitsu> Adri2000: I hadn't even seen that email until you mentioned it! You're quick.
[11:40] <Adri2000> :
[11:42] <TheMuso> Particularly those that are several pages in.
[11:46] <honestlyenough> If a package installs something to /usr/sbin, lintian -i mypackage-version-arch.deb claims I need a man page to conform to the Policy regulations. However, I've seen many packages where there is a mypackage and a separate mypackage-docs. If I've only got one manpage, am I really supposed to break this package up into two separate Ubuntu packages?
[11:47] <Fujitsu> honestlyenough: Just put the manpages in mypackage.
[11:47] <zul> hey
[11:47] <Fujitsu> Hi zul.
[12:01] <danohuiginn> launchpad doesn't distinguish between 'confirmed' meaning 'needs somebody to investigate/fix' and 'confirmed' meaning 'has been fixed, waiting for the patch to be committed'. Is that right?
[12:01] <Fujitsu> danohuiginn: `In progress' is generally used for the latter of those.
[12:02] <Fujitsu> There is also a feature to search for bugs which have patches attached.
[12:02] <danohuiginn> OK, Fujitsu
[12:02] <danohuiginn> but not one to search for bugs *without* patches attached as far as I can see
[12:02] <danohuiginn> which is what I'd want, as I'm after things to fix, not things to commit
[12:03] <TheMuso> danohuiginn: Have you looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO?
[12:03] <Fujitsu> danohuiginn: Indeed, that feature seems to be absent.
[12:03] <danohuiginn> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix says set bugs to 'confirmed' when you have a patch
[12:05] <danohuiginn> thanks, TheMuso (also thanks for that upload the other day). I'll have a look through there
[12:05] <sistpoty> hi folks
[12:05] <Fujitsu> Hey sistpoty.
[12:05] <TheMuso> Hey sistpoty.
[12:05] <sistpoty> hi Fujitsu and TheMuso
[12:05] <TheMuso> danohuiginn: You're welcome.
[12:07] <TheMuso> _MMA_: What is your thoughts on packages such as ubuntustudio-sounds regarding the maintainer field? As you may know, either the maintainer field has to have someone who has an @ubuntu.com address, or it must have MOTU as maintainer.
[12:08] <TheMuso> Before this goes into the archive, this needs to be changed.
[12:09] <_MMA_> TheMuso: We can mark 'em as tsmithe or joejaxx.
[12:10] <sistpoty> hooray, trigger was mentioned as favorite game on the planet :)
[12:10] <_MMA_> TheMuso: I havnt pursued my membership yet.