[12:57] <poningru> halp
[12:58] <poningru> how would i get a gnome-panel widget to display a popup
[12:58] <poningru> aka use libnotify to display some msg
[01:02] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: what do you think my chances are of getting them to make source packages dget'able from LP?
[01:02] <LaserJock> or maybe wget'able
[01:02] <jdong> they are wgettable...
[01:03] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'd thought of filing a bug about that, but then decided the chances of it happening were too low.
[01:03] <jdong> using a 3-step copy paste :D
[01:03] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You might want to ask in #launchpad.
[01:03] <jdong> or scraping the LP URL
[01:03] <jdong> dscrape :)
[01:03] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I've been thinking about it too
[01:03] <LaserJock> it just seems so unhelpful to split them up like that
[01:04] <LaserJock> I was thinking maybe it'd be possible to either tar them up in one big file
[01:04] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice to be able to do something like `dget lp:package/version', like you can with bzr, or even `dget http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package/version', but having them gettable using normal dget would be the first step.
[01:04] <sistpoty> dgettable! ;)
[01:04] <imbrandon> moins all
[01:05] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: I like it!
[01:05] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: dget? definitely... it's even shorter to type than fetch_package.py :)
[01:05] <sistpoty> hi imbrandon
[01:14] <LaserJock> anybody got a clue on how to disable NetworkManager without uninstalling it?
[01:15] <RAOF> LaserJock: You can put something in /etc/network/interfaces
[01:15] <Fujitsu> RAOF: That doesn't work in Feisty.
[01:15] <RAOF> But it occurs to me that that's not what you're after.
[01:15] <LaserJock> yeah, that just makes it mad
[01:15] <RAOF> Fujitsu: Oh, cool.  That's a recent change, though, right?
[01:15] <LaserJock> :-)
[01:15] <Fujitsu> Gah, where are the initscripts for it these days?
[01:16] <LaserJock> all I see are regular networking initscripts
[01:16] <Fujitsu> There used to be NetworkManager, but not any more.
[01:16] <LaserJock> yeah, it's been too integrated for me to find
[01:17] <_MMA_> LaserJock: TheMuso is actually showing me how to stop the daemon but I should still file a bug about this.
[01:17] <LaserJock> hmm, I found the NM applet autostart .desktop
[01:17] <Fujitsu> Ah:
[01:17] <Fujitsu> /etc/dbus-1/event.d/
[01:17] <Fujitsu> If you modify the two NM things in there to make it not start, it won't start.
[01:17] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's jut the applet.
[01:17] <LaserJock> yeah, I was poking in there but I have no idea what I'd do
[01:18] <Fujitsu> Sticking an exit 0; on top might help.
[01:18] <LaserJock> well, it should be easier then that, that's all I gotta say
[01:18] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: chmod -x also works for the files in /etc/dbus1/event.d
[01:18] <Fujitsu> You could always remove it, you know.
[01:18] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:18] <LaserJock> but that takes out ubuntu-desktop
[01:19] <Fujitsu> ... that's just stupid.
[01:19] <LaserJock> and ubuntu-desktop is nice to have around when you're doing a lot of updating
[01:19] <TheMuso> LaserJock: chmod -x /etc/dbus-1/event.d/22dhcdbd and the one for network manager
[01:20] <TheMuso> I've done this before with no problems.
[01:20] <LaserJock> that'll kill just NM or is more taken out?
[01:20] <TheMuso> Just nm afaik.
[01:21] <LaserJock> hehe, I just do a doc string freeze exception just for that little nugget ;-)
[01:21] <TheMuso> I never use GNOME, but on my notebook I found that the ethernet interface came up as soon as I connected the cable, which I didn't want.
[01:21] <TheMuso> SO I disabled the 22dhcdbd
[01:22] <LaserJock> do you use any DE normally or just CLI
[01:22] <TheMuso> LaserJock: CLI the vast majority of the time.
[01:22] <TheMuso> If I use GUI, its on another box and I mostly use my eyes.
[01:22] <LaserJock> what do you use for browsing?
[01:22] <LaserJock> yeah, I remember at Paris you used your eyes a lot it seemed
[01:22] <LaserJock> looked painful actually
[01:22] <TheMuso> elinks
[01:23] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Back then I was in a rather bad habbit.
[01:23] <TheMuso> WHich I have almost got rid of completely.
[01:23] <TheMuso> SOmetimes I find looking at things helps me think clearer about something.
[01:23] <TheMuso> WHich I am trying to change.
[01:23] <LaserJock> interesting
[01:24] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[01:24] <TheMuso> I actually find it hard to use speech alone when writing any form of code.
[01:25] <LaserJock> hmm, is that because coding is more spatial, rather than auditory?
[01:25] <TheMuso> Don't know.
[01:26] <TheMuso> Probably.
[01:26] <LaserJock> well, I'm trying to use elinks on LP right now
[01:26] <LaserJock> I don't know the keyboard commands all that well
[01:26] <TheMuso> Works rather well actually, if you have it built with javascript support.
[01:26] <LaserJock> but it seem actually pretty decent
[01:26] <TheMuso> Its very customizable.,
[01:27] <LaserJock> do you know if the default Feisty package has javascript support?
[01:27] <TheMuso> It doesn't.
[01:27] <LaserJock> ah
[01:27] <TheMuso> And it would be a big mess to try and get it to do so.
[01:27] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why the mess
[01:27] <Fujitsu> *?
[01:27] <TheMuso> I just grab it from git and build it myself.
[01:27] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: xullrunner/libmozjs
[01:28] <Fujitsu> Oh.
[01:28] <Fujitsu> That'd do it.
[01:28] <imbrandon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4   kill -9 ftw
[01:29] <WxorX> imbrandon: is that that rap thing?
[01:29] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Its very fun building elinks on a system that also has firefox installed.
[01:29] <imbrandon> WxorX, yea
[01:29] <WxorX> "rap"
[01:29] <WxorX> watched that a week back, pretty amusing
[01:30] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I saw that a week or so ago. Pretty good.
[01:31] <LaserJock> darn, it's always a bit sad to see when users recommend people *not* user our packages
[01:31] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Where's this?
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Hm, it only had 9.5k views when I last looked. A little different now.
[01:31] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: forums, maxima
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Oh gawd.
[01:31] <Fujitsu> What's the complaint this time?
[01:31] <LaserJock> ever since that bug
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Bug #43150?
[01:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in wxmaxima "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
[01:31] <_MMA_> LaserJock: TheMuso's advise worked. I dont know if I should file this as a bug though. :-/
[01:31] <LaserJock> people have just gotten into the habit
[01:32] <LaserJock> _MMA_: well, it *should* be easier if it isn't already
[01:32] <_MMA_> Does NetworkManager show up in "Services"?
[01:32] <_MMA_> That would be nice.
[01:33] <jdong> no
[01:33] <_MMA_> grr...
[01:33] <jdong>  /etc/dbus-1/event.d
[01:33] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: "I would say the only problem is that you are using Ubuntu's package for Maxima.  Build your own.  You will be happier."
[01:33] <jdong> 25NetworkManager
[01:33] <jdong> takes same arguments as a sysvinit script
[01:33] <jdong> but d-bus usually takes care of starting it
[01:33] <_MMA_> jdong: Yeah. I have that all disables now. :)
[01:33] <_MMA_> It would just be nice to have a easy way to do it.
[01:34] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I just found that.
[01:34] <Fujitsu> That's depressing.
[01:34] <Fujitsu> File bugs, you silly people.
[01:34] <LaserJock> they even have a wiki page on how to build it from source
[01:34] <jdong> LaserJock: ha, I did that for ffmpeg too ;-)
[01:35] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'm sure I added a comment to that saying to file bugs or similar.
[01:35] <LaserJock> I don't mind people posting workarounds until we can get a proper fix
[01:35] <Fujitsu> But they need to file bugs, damnit.
[01:35] <LaserJock> but when the general advice is to not use the Ubuntu packages, even after the fix is out
[01:36] <LaserJock> it becomes a bit ... what's my favorite word?
[01:36] <LaserJock> "demotivating"
[01:36] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[01:36] <Fujitsu> Are you formulating a reply?
[01:36] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:36] <LaserJock> just gotta make sure it's not an existing bug we haven't fixed ;-)
[01:37] <Fujitsu> It probably is.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> I can't see one.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> (and I've looked through every bug a couple of times over the past 24 hours)
[01:42] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why does it look like it wants libc6-dev there?
[01:42] <Fujitsu> That can't be right...
[01:43] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: how can you tell?
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Look at the includes it can't find.
[01:44] <Fujitsu> Indeed.
[01:44] <Fujitsu> Remove libc6-dev and I get those errors.
[01:44] <Fujitsu> Why the *$#@ is it trying to compile stuff?
[01:44] <Fujitsu> Fortunately for us, building their own maxima isn't going to help them.
[01:45] <LaserJock> oh, I was looking at the wrong error output
[01:46] <LaserJock> that's odd
[01:47] <LaserJock> I don't see why it would be compiling stuff when you run a plot command
[01:47] <Fujitsu> It isn't.
[01:47] <imbrandon> there is alot of talk on p.d.o lately about cross complining, and i'm always still intrested in it, anyone know if there is an oftc debian-cross channell or mailing list ?
[01:48] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: then what is it doing?
[01:48] <Fujitsu> describe(plot2d) is the problem command. I have no idea what describe does.
[01:49] <LaserJock> it looks like a help command
[01:50] <LaserJock> he tries ? plot2d as well
[01:50] <Fujitsu> so he does.
[01:50] <Fujitsu> And it gives a different error without maxima-doc.
[01:51] <Fujitsu> So why is it compiling stuff when you are trying to view documentation?
[01:51] <LaserJock> libc6-dev is installed when  you install build-essential isn't it?
[01:53] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[01:54] <Fujitsu> Seems to be fine on Feisty.
[01:55] <LaserJock> without libc6-dev?
[01:55] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[01:55] <LaserJock> so that's why it would magically work after they build it themselves
[01:55] <LaserJock> because they install build-essential to checkinstall their "better" maxima
[01:55] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[01:56] <LaserJock> I can't find anything on this in Debian
[01:56] <Fujitsu> And now they blame us. Of course.
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Neither can I.
[01:59] <Fujitsu> It doesn't affect Edgy or Feisty.
[02:00] <Fujitsu> But if you have no libc6-dev on Dapper, boom.
[02:01] <Fujitsu> And I can't find any other references to a similar thing on Google.
[02:05] <LaserJock> ok, well it looks like I'm fresh out of mean
[02:05] <LaserJock> but I posted something anyway
[02:07] <TheMuso> If a package originally from revu that is in the archive gets an update, it only needs one ack to be uploaded right?
[02:07] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: It just needs to be uploaded.
[02:07] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right.
[02:07] <TheMuso> And archived I guess.
[02:09] <Fujitsu> Well, yes.
[02:09] <TheMuso> yep ok
[02:09] <Fujitsu> Thanks LaserJock, I'm no good at writing replies like that.
[02:12] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: was mine decent?
[02:12] <LaserJock> you can add a sound lashing if you want ;-)
[02:13] <Fujitsu> It was pretty good.
[02:13] <Fujitsu> If it happens again, I'll work a little bit of anger and demotivation into a response ;)
[02:13] <Fujitsu> Now, I need to head of to school in a minute.
[02:13] <LaserJock> hmm, the forums look updated too
[02:13] <LaserJock> like a cohesive "plan" must have happend
[02:15] <Fujitsu> I'll be updating my sites with the new one in the next couple of days.
[02:17] <Fujitsu> I must now depart.
[02:17] <Fujitsu> Bye all.
[02:18] <LaserJock> cya Fujitsu 
[02:37] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:38] <TheMuso> Heya bddebian.
[02:40] <bddebian> Heya TheMuso
[02:40] <bddebian> Has everyone already voted for Ubuntu?  http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/linux
[02:40] <TheMuso> Yep.
[02:42] <jdong_> ha, that reminds me of how one of my teachers pronounced aspx
[02:42] <jdong_> took him a while to realize what he was saying.
[03:15] <Fujitsu_> Can a core-dev please ack the Dapper task on bug #92710?
[03:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92710 in maxima "describe or ? cause error" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92710
[03:21] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:21] <Burgundavia> wesnoth no longer ships any campaigns in the core package
[03:21] <Burgundavia> this is cracked
[03:23] <bddebian> It got split into different tarballs
[03:30] <Burgundavia> bddebian: I see that
[03:31] <Burgundavia> add/remove doesn't know that
[03:31] <Burgundavia> and thus installs no campaigns
[03:31] <bddebian> Ugh
[03:31] <Burgundavia> there is already a bug out there for getting a metapackage available
[03:31] <bddebian> When I updated it for Dapper I think, I made the campaign that used to be in the core package a depends I thought
[03:36] <imbrandon_> heya Burgundavia
[03:36] <Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
[03:36] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon_.
[03:36] <imbrandon_> ello TheMuso
[03:37] <Burgundavia> I hate flash with a passion
[03:37] <imbrandon_> lol Burgundavia
[03:37] <Burgundavia> it is currently bringing my machine to its knees
[03:37] <TheMuso> imbrandon_: Which box?
[03:37] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: yes, if only it wasn't everywhere
[03:37] <imbrandon_> i wish i had sabdfl's money, i would buy flash
[03:37] <Burgundavia> swfdec made a new release
[03:37] <imbrandon_> TheMuso: my main workstation at home
[03:37] <Burgundavia> somebody better package it for me :)
[03:37] <TheMuso> ah
[03:38] <imbrandon_> Burgundavia: if i get time at work tonight i will
[03:38] <Burgundavia> rock
[03:38] <TheMuso> What about UVF?
[03:39] <Burgundavia> eh, that is bypassable
[03:39] <imbrandon_> i can try for a uvfe, if not Burgundavia getsa a personal package built ;)
[03:39] <Burgundavia> the version in the archives is ancient
[03:41] <imbrandon_> ok base system installed, brb
[03:42] <Burgundavia> ok, is it just me or has performance under load gotten a whole lot worse
[03:42] <Burgundavia> ?
[03:43] <LaserJock> I don't know
[03:43] <LaserJock> it seems like to me that apt/synaptic are real hogs these days
[03:43] <Burgundavia> yep
[03:44] <Burgundavia> well, to be fair, only developers really only see the bad grind
[03:44] <Burgundavia> updating GNOME is a real hog
[03:49] <imbrandon> re
[03:53] <imbrandon> ajmitch, i found some dual proc 1.3 ghz ppc g4 xservs for 1300.00
[03:53] <imbrandon> 1gb ram
[03:54] <ajmitch> nice
[03:55] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: nice
[03:55] <imbrandon> http://www.mac-resource.com/store.php?item=0000327.SERV&option1000125=100012502&option1000126=100012603&option1000127=100012701&option1000128=100012802&quantity=1#
[03:55] <imbrandon> wow long url
[03:55] <imbrandon> but thats still doable
[03:57] <fernando> imbrandon: here it cost U$ 4000,00 (R$ 8500,00) =)
[03:58] <imbrandon> wow
[04:00] <fernando> welcome to third world hehehe the real value + 60 % taxes
[04:05] <LaserJock> that choral music is a lifesaver
[04:05] <ajmitch> :)
[04:05] <ajmitch> keeps you sane?
[04:05] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:05] <Burgundavia> sanity is entirely relative, especially in most of our cases
[04:05] <LaserJock> I'm here at the lab groovin to the tuns
[04:05] <LaserJock> especially in Burgundavia case ;-)
[04:05] <Burgundavia> hey!
[04:06] <LaserJock> did I say that out loud? :p
[04:06] <imbrandon> lol
[04:06] <LaserJock> nah, Corey's even got a gf
[04:06] <ajmitch> hehe
[04:06] <LaserJock> he a real "normal person"
[04:06] <ajmitch> and you're married
[04:06] <LaserJock> *he's
[04:06] <ajmitch> so we hear
[04:07] <LaserJock> so I've heard
[04:07] <LaserJock> ;-)
[04:08] <LaserJock> I've gotten a few "You should divorce your computer"s
[04:08] <ajmitch> heh
[04:09] <Burgundavia> I date a co-worker
[04:09] <imbrandon> heh dont ever let "her" hear you ask that ;)
[04:09] <LaserJock> some days ... <slap>
[04:09] <Burgundavia> you define that as normal?
[04:09] <LaserJock> fairly
[04:09] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, very
[04:09] <imbrandon> i have dated many co-workers
[04:09] <Burgundavia> shes a somethingawful reader
[04:09] <LaserJock> and yet he's single .. hmmm
[04:09] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: that would be somewhat impossible for me to do
[04:10] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: not that into guys?
[04:10] <imbrandon> ajmitch, impossible or "not right" ;)
[04:10] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: hah, not at all
[04:10] <ajmitch> imbrandon: well the only female in the office is married :P
[04:12] <imbrandon> ;P
[04:12] <Burgundavia> the ubuntu community accepts "flexibility" in these cases :)
[04:13] <LaserJock> ;-)
[04:13] <Burgundavia> boring
[04:13] <ajmitch> I know, isn't it great?
[04:14] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm at a uni, there's tons of people everywhere
[04:14] <LaserJock> but I've been married 5 years, it'd be too much work ;-)
[04:15] <imbrandon> lol
[04:15] <LaserJock> one woman is plenty for me
[04:15] <LaserJock> well
[04:15] <LaserJock> 1+Ubuntu
[04:15] <LaserJock> :-)
[04:15] <bddebian> Gah, try 4 ;-P
[04:16] <ajmitch> ah, child processes
[04:16] <bddebian> Yep :)
[04:16] <LaserJock> "kill -9" doh!
[04:16] <LaserJock> bad analogy
[04:16] <ajmitch> quite bad
[04:17] <bddebian> More like "renice" ;-P
[04:17] <ajmitch> bddebian: good luck making them nicer
[04:18] <imbrandon> nah just put them to  "sleep"
[04:19] <bddebian> Heh, yeah or sometimes "shutdown --please now" ;-P
[04:20] <fernando> this week I spoke to a "sysadmin" to use wipe -rfs / to fix the permissions hehehe it twirled in a production server =( he was dismissed
[04:22] <imbrandon> not cool
[04:22] <fernando> yes, is really not cool
[04:22] <ajmitch> only 2 or 3 times a week ;)
[04:23] <TheMuso> ajmitch: lol
[04:23] <ajmitch> well, there was a small dns hiccup the other day, for a few minutes
[04:23] <fernando> somebody is working in gkvm package?
[04:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe
[04:23] <ajmitch> apart from that, it's generally just minor data screwups which can be restored quickly, when we have to delve into the db
[04:23] <ajmitch> things that they generally don't notice at all
[04:24] <ajmitch> of course that's while they're expecting stuff to be a bit funny, so it's all ok :)
[04:26] <TheMuso> fun
[04:26] <ajmitch> oh yes
[04:31] <fernando> nobody is working in gkvm package?
[04:32] <ajmitch> I presume a frontend for kvm?
[04:32] <fernando> KVM (for Kernel-based Virtual Machine)
[04:32] <fernando> ajmitch: yes
[04:33] <ajmitch> go ahead & work on it, but it's unlikely to get into feisty at this late stage
[04:34] <imbrandon> dear lazy irc, is apache 2.2 merged into feisty ?
[04:34] <ajmitch> of course
[04:34] <imbrandon> 'good
[04:34] <imbrandon> last i checked it hadent been
[04:35] <ajmitch> ii  apache2                           2.2.3-3.2build1                   Next generation, scalable, extendable web server
[04:35] <ajmitch> has been for a long time
[04:35] <jdong> imbrandon: with that time you could just !info apache2 feisty
[04:35] <jdong> :)
[04:35] <imbrandon> jdong, shush
[04:35] <imbrandon> i could have checked lp or p.u.c too 
[04:35] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:35] <jdong> but dear lazy IRC letters are more fun for us :)
[04:39] <imbrandon> heh
[04:39] <ajmitch> uh oh
[04:39] <LaserJock> apparently I've killed the conversation in #launchpad
[04:39] <ajmitch> with your talk of witches
[04:39] <bddebian> heh
[04:39] <LaserJock> might as well move on to -motu
[04:39] <imbrandon> lol
[04:40] <ajmitch> it's irrefutable logic though
[04:40] <LaserJock> I think sabdfl must have been offended by my newt comment ;-)
[04:40] <ajmitch> that witches burn, and so does wood
[04:40] <ajmitch> wood floats, and so do ducks
[04:40] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ?
[04:40] <ajmitch> so if you weigh the same as a duck you're a witch
[04:40] <LaserJock> LaserJock: I swear, sabdfl turned me into a newt!
[04:41] <LaserJock> I was going to go with a green camelion
[04:41] <bddebian> Who art thou that art so wise in the ways of science?
[04:41] <jdong> yay splash isn't weird color anymore.
[04:41] <LaserJock> or however you spell them
[04:41] <jdong> chameleon?
[04:42] <LaserJock> but I thought the suse inuendo might not fly so well
[04:42] <LaserJock> so I kept with the newt ;-)
[04:42] <jdong> innuendo?
[04:42] <LaserJock> that sabdfl was turning me into a gree chameleon
[04:42] <LaserJock> whatever
[04:42] <jdong> green?
[04:42] <LaserJock> yes
[04:42] <jdong> I love you too.
[04:42] <jdong> I can read your mind. you want to strangle me :)
[04:43] <LaserJock> strangle yes
[04:43] <LaserJock> for reading my mind no
[04:43] <LaserJock> :p
[04:43] <LaserJock> jdong confuses me with weird hardware type things
[04:44] <LaserJock> I've never reconfigured my filesystem
[04:44] <ajmitch> fun, random violence
[04:44] <jdong> ha, filesystems are now permanently associated with violence :)
[04:44] <jdong> hmm, strangle+weird+filesystem=violence... :)
[04:44] <LaserJock> well, earlier in the day #edubuntu was going to rebrand Edubuntu
[04:45] <imbrandon> only in your mind jdong , only in your mind
[04:45] <LaserJock> Edubuntu: Linux for Idol Fans
[04:45] <LaserJock> well, at least I didn't say reiserfs ;-)
[04:45] <imbrandon> reicerfs?
[04:46] <imbrandon> ricerfs*
[04:46] <jdong> LaserJock: that's probably what tripped off reiser when he came home from work
[04:46] <LaserJock> no doubt
[04:46] <LaserJock> probably caught a certain somebody running ext3
[04:46] <jdong> "Hi honey, I installed RHEL4 with ext3"
[04:46] <LaserJock> anyway...
[04:46] <jdong> back on topic :)
[04:47] <LaserJock> we had a topic?
[04:47] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[04:47] <LaserJock> python
[04:47] <ajmitch> MOTU stuff
[04:47] <ajmitch> or witches
[04:47] <LaserJock> bah, who need MOTU stuff
[04:47] <LaserJock> we stink anyway, right?
[04:47] <imbrandon> hrm i wonder if apache2.2 can be backported without recompiling a ton of other things ( like php and mod_* )
[04:48] <LaserJock> *his
[04:48] <jdong> imbrandon: I was watching office, and I felt my heart stop for a moment. then I looked back on this window.
[04:48] <imbrandon> jdong, that sentance mand -0- sense to me
[04:49] <LaserJock> too random
[04:49] <imbrandon> made*
[04:49] <jdong> imbrandon: it's midnight. my wise cracks stop working after... well they never work. But it was related to the backporting the entire apache2.2 remark.
[04:49] <LaserJock> maybe that will jiggle the dip switches in the right place
[04:50] <jdong> LaserJock: stop jiggling my dip switch!
[04:50] <TheMuso> hmmm. Now why did Bitlbee die?
[04:50] <LaserJock> we burned it
[04:50] <LaserJock> more witches!
[04:50] <imbrandon> with beryl ( for console )
[04:51] <TheMuso> lol
[04:51] <LaserJock> maybe I should be getting more than 4hrs of sleep at night o.O
[04:51] <ajmitch> I think so...
[04:51] <jdong> lol, console beryl
[04:51] <jdong> we should have an libaa output for Xorg :)
[04:51] <LaserJock> I've been on IRC for roughly 16hrs today
[04:51] <ajmitch> imbrandon: all apache modules would need rebuilt
[04:51] <imbrandon> ajmitch, so does apache2.2 require that mod_* be recompiled as well ?
[04:51] <LaserJock> bummer
[04:51] <imbrandon> nasty
[04:51] <LaserJock> that would be nice to have
[04:52] <ajmitch> it's not a small upgrade
[04:52] <jdong> that's what...
[04:52] <ajmitch> which is why it took awhile to get
[04:52] <LaserJock> course I'd go for apache 2 at all on my server
[04:52] <Ubugtu> Apache bug 2 in Layout "Just testing the Boogzeela setup for log4j" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2
[04:52] <jdong> I should stop watching Office... bad influence
[04:53] <LaserJock> lol
[04:53] <LaserJock> I didn't know ubugtu knew about apache's BTS
[04:53] <imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$ apt-cache search mod|grep apache|wc -l
[04:53] <imbrandon> 149
[04:53] <imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$    
[04:53] <imbrandon> ouch
[04:54] <LaserJock> but does that count both apache and apache2?
[04:54] <imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$ apt-cache search mod|grep apache2|wc -l
[04:54] <imbrandon> 58
[04:54] <jdong> apt-cache search libapache2 is probably better.
[04:54] <Lathiat> i love apache 2
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Apache bug 2 in Layout "Just testing the Boogzeela setup for log4j" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2
[04:54] <Lathiat> heh
[04:54] <jdong> LaserJock: try saying mandriva 2007
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
[04:54] <jdong> or redhat 9
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Red Hat bug 9 in bugzilla "Wrong URL for changing password" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9
[04:55] <Lathiat> ubuntu 704
[04:55] <Lathiat> ;p
[04:55] <Lathiat> pff
[04:55] <Lathiat> launchpad 704
[04:55] <LaserJock> lol
[04:55] <imbrandon> malone 704
[04:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 704 in launchpad "Default value for "Arch branch" on +sourceadmin should be "MAIN", not "main"." [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/704
[04:55] <jdong> lp 704
[04:55] <jdong> heh
[04:55] <jdong> irony... our product is the hardest one to trip.
[04:55] <LaserJock> <waving magic hands> #704 ?
[04:55] <imbrandon> no its not, bug 704
[04:55] <imbrandon> no its not, bug #704
[04:55] <imbrandon> lol
[04:55] <jdong> LMAO
[04:55] <imbrandon> never mind
[04:56] <Lathiat> 12:55 [freenode]  -Ubugtu(n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu)- Error: Could not parse  XML returned by Ubuntu: unbound prefix: line 28, column 8
[04:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 666 in malone "can't file a bug on Ubuntu" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/666
[04:56] <Lathiat> i think i broke it
[04:56] <Lathiat> ;p
[04:56] <jdong> kinda the doomsday scenario
 bug #704
[04:56] <Lathiat> haha yeh i remember seeing that
[04:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 704 in launchpad "Default value for "Arch branch" on +sourceadmin should be "MAIN", not "main"." [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/704
[04:56] <Lathiat> bug 31337
[04:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31337 in gs-esp "ESP Ghostscript 815.01: Unrecoverable error" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/31337
[04:56] <Lathiat> bug 1337
[04:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1337 in malone "Distro release tasks should include name of distro" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337
[04:56] <imbrandon> ok ok ok , nuf 
[04:56] <TheMuso> lol
[04:56] <jdong> that's what....
[04:57] <ajmitch> TheMuso: convince me that drupal 5.1 is a good thing
[04:57] <Lathiat> ok i'll stop talking about redhat 9, mandriva 2007 and apache 2 ? :)
[04:57] <LaserJock> somebody *cough*falcon guy*cough*  is going to ban us for abusing his bots
[04:57] <Ubugtu> Red Hat bug 9 in bugzilla "Wrong URL for changing password" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9
[04:57] <Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
[04:57] <Ubugtu> Apache bug 2 in Layout "Just testing the Boogzeela setup for log4j" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2
[04:57] <Lathiat> err, heh
[04:57] <jdong> lol
[04:57] <Lathiat> didnt expect it to do that
[04:57] <TheMuso> ROFL
[04:57] <jdong> gotta cross-link bugs... put like bug N inside a bug description :)
[04:58] <Lathiat> it probably doesnt listen to itself
[04:58] <TheMuso> jdong: LMAO
[04:58] <Lathiat> but that couldbe amusing
[04:58] <Lathiat> maybe if there were 2 bots
[04:58] <jdong> you mean ubotu and Ubugtu?
[04:58] <LaserJock> Bot Wars!!!
[04:58] <jdong> but I think they ignore each other
[04:58] <Lathiat> and you could get 1 to say "bug 2" that made it read out a bug that said somethign that triggered it to say "bug 2" again
[04:58] <jdong> gotta bring in a nother bot
[04:58] <jdong> and Lathiat, stop tripping bugs!
[04:58] <jdong> I'm surprised you didn't trigger it.
[04:58] <Lathiat> bug X doesn't seem to trigger it
[04:59] <jdong> umm, yes it does.
[04:59] <Lathiat> well it didnt then
[04:59] <LaserJock> darn it, who spiked the IRC server?
[04:59] <jdong> you got lucky
[04:59] <Lathiat> mayeb there is no bug 2
[04:59] <ajmitch> TheMuso: anything? :)
[04:59] <jdong> you killed the bug.
[04:59] <Lathiat> i picked a convenient number apparently, no bug 2 ;p
[04:59] <jdong> Lathiat: there is a bug 2
[04:59] <jdong> heh
[04:59] <jdong> nvm
[04:59] <Lathiat> not in launchpad
[05:01] <jdong> Forced audio codec: mad
[05:01] <jdong> *snicker*
[05:01] <jdong> never saw that before :)
[05:02] <TheMuso> ajmitch: There is the support stuff I noted in the UVF. Drupal is also an easy CMS to use and administer, and 5/5.1 makes that a lot easier, with better administration UI, more fine graned access control, supports two different database backends, both pgsql and mysql, and is easily extendable with a modules API that is quick to pick up and make use of.
[05:02] <poningru> Burgundavia: there is a guy in #ubuntu-us who wants to talk to you
[05:02] <TheMuso> I am biast of course. :)
[05:02] <poningru> Burgundavia: funnylookinghat or something
[05:03] <TheMuso> Drupal can also run multiple sites of a single codebase.
[05:03] <TheMuso> s/of/from/
[05:03] <ajmitch> TheMuso: right, but why 5.1 instead of 4.7?
[05:04] <ajmitch> is 4.7 support going to be dropped?
[05:04] <imbrandon> i run 5.1 on ubuntuwire.com , very very nice admin interface
[05:04] <imbrandon> ok off to work, bbiab
[05:04] <ajmitch> we generally don't bother with supporting universe stuff for 18 months either
[05:05] <LaserJock> are you talking about a UVFe for 5.1?
[05:05] <ajmitch> yes
[05:06] <ajmitch> bug 91852
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91852 in drupal "UVF request: Update to drupal 5.1." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91852
[05:06] <ajmitch> ah, Ubugtu hasn't died from the abuse yet
[05:06] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Once a newer version of drupal comes out, 4.7 will sease to be supported
[05:08] <LaserJock> I personally think it'd be awesome to have 5.1
[05:08] <ajmitch> so once 5.2 is out, 4.7 will be dropped?
[05:09] <LaserJock> I read fairly often about "distro X is way outdated, just install from source", it'd be nice if we can at least *try* to get close
[05:09] <TheMuso> 5.2 will be a security release. The next one is 6 afaik
[05:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: right, I'm just trying to see why it'd be justified :)
[05:09] <TheMuso> I'm willing to keep up with security fixes, as I use it, and follow its development.
[05:09] <ajmitch> from what it sounds like, it's a big update, but there are enough drupal-using MOTUs to chase up bugs
[05:09] <ajmitch> yep
[05:09] <ajmitch> I'll +1 it then
[05:10] <LaserJock> after all, ubuntu.com is now drupal ;-)
[05:10] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Indeed.
[05:10] <TheMuso> What better than to give them a maintained package to use, rather than them have to keep it updated. :)
[05:11] <LaserJock> heh
[05:11] <LaserJock> I wonder how much they patch it?
[05:11] <imbrandon> very little
[05:11] <imbrandon> err i doubt any ;)
[05:11] <TheMuso> imbrandon: If you need a hand with drupal, feel free to give me a yell.
[05:11] <imbrandon> *did i say that out loud*
[05:12] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:12] <imbrandon> TheMuso, okies, i'm pretty decient with drupal and wp, i hack them alot ;)
[05:12] <imbrandon> but thanks
[05:12] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I can give you some silly ones if you need some to reject
[05:12] <jdong> ajmitch: you came close :)
[05:12] <TheMuso> imbrandon: We could even write a module to integrate with checking status of build machines.
[05:13] <imbrandon> TheMuso, yup, already on it ( via nagios and drupal )
[05:13] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:13] <TheMuso> Cool.
[05:13] <jdong> ajmitch: but I think in the end we're all sensible enough not to UVFe things too absurd :)
[05:13] <imbrandon> even things like disk space etc ;)
[05:13] <TheMuso> whats nagios
[05:13] <LaserJock> man, now you guys make feel bad about removing drupal from my site :/
[05:14] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's ok, I use plone
[05:14] <imbrandon> web/cron/server based server monitoring software
[05:14] <TheMuso> LaserJock: You should. :S
[05:14] <TheMuso> Nice.
[05:14] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yikes!
[05:14] <imbrandon> TheMuso, apt-cache show nagios2
[05:14] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:14] <jdong> TheMuso: it's a delectable Mexican dish, consisting of tortilla chips and melted cheese
[05:14] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm not going there, I don't think
[05:14] <fernando> hehheeh
[05:14] <jdong> oh wait
[05:14] <fernando> apt-get install zabbix :P
[05:14] <ajmitch> LaserJock: unless you want something a bit more complex, plone isn't for you
[05:15] <jdong> whatever happened to libmail-audit-perl?
[05:15] <ajmitch> plone is insanely extensible & quite complex at times
[05:15] <TheMuso> imbrandon: I hope that form on the jabber/email page is using forms api. :)
[05:15] <jdong> it disappeared in feisty
[05:15] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I looked at the website once and got scared off
[05:15] <jdong> and apt-cache search christ on a stick doesn't work anymore
[05:15] <imbrandon> TheMuso, no , i will update it sometime, its just the exact code i hade before pasted 
[05:15] <TheMuso> Yeah fair enough.
[05:16] <TheMuso> I figured as much.
[05:16] <tritium> apt-cache search offend christians, jdong 
[05:16] <LaserJock> argg, I gotta get some real coding done :/
[05:16] <LaserJock> tritium!
[05:16] <tritium> Hey LaserJock :)
[05:16] <ajmitch> tritium!!!
[05:16] <jdong> tritium: sorry if anyone was offended :)
[05:16] <tritium> ajmitch!!
[05:16] <tritium> jdong: I'm not
[05:16] <LaserJock> he's alive!
[05:16] <jdong> tritium: FYI it's been a selling point of Debian/Ubuntu on one occasion.
[05:17] <tritium> jdong: :)
[05:17] <ajmitch> jdong: doesn't make it less offensive
[05:17] <jdong> tritium: I went "apt-cache search christ on a stick" and it matched a package, and the guy popped off FC6 the next day :)
[05:17] <tritium> How are you all?
[05:17] <ajmitch> tritium: good, how are you?
[05:17] <tritium> Not bad, thanks.  I think I have a broken nose.  I'll find out tomorrow.
[05:17] <jdong> how can you be not sure of that?
[05:18] <tritium> it hurts like hell, but I can't tell.  It's still straight
[05:18] <jdong> LaserJock: if my name is in apt, I'd love myself again.
[05:18] <jdong> (that's what....)
[05:18] <ajmitch> tritium: how did you do that?
[05:18] <LaserJock> tritium: did one of the aliens for LANL come over and beat you up?
[05:19] <tritium> ajmitch: my dog is easily excitable.  I was petting her, and she jerked her head up and rammed her thick skull against my nose
[05:19] <ajmitch> haha
[05:19] <LaserJock> ouch
[05:19] <ajmitch> ouch
[05:19] <tritium> LaserJock: no, today it was from LLNL
[05:19] <TheMuso> youch
[05:19] <LaserJock> tritium: I bet, those guys are kinda scary sometimes
[05:19] <tritium> heh, yeah.  What's new around here?
[05:20] <LaserJock> ummm
[05:20] <LaserJock> working on Feisty *cough*yeah right*cough*
[05:20] <LaserJock> lots of bugs left
[05:20] <ajmitch> tritium: not much, motu council perhaps
[05:21] <ajmitch> though you know about all that already
[05:21] <tritium> I do.
[05:21] <ajmitch> we're just slogging through, very slowly
[05:21] <LaserJock> Beta Freeze was today
[05:21] <tritium> I got my email from gpocentek.  Hopefully we'll chat soon.
[05:22] <ajmitch> going to have time for MOTU?
[05:22] <ajmitch> we'd like to make it easy for people that don't have 10 hours a day like LaserJock 
[05:22] <tritium> I told him I'd very much like to, and that would be great if I could be assigned little tasks to keep me involved.
[05:22] <bddebian> hmm
[05:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: 10?
[05:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, 16+
[05:23] <LaserJock> that's better ;-)
[05:23] <LaserJock> tritium: we are working on some Launchpad tags
[05:23] <bddebian> heh
[05:24] <LaserJock> like bitsize, packaging, etc.
[05:24] <LaserJock> to categorize bugs
[05:24] <tritium> LaserJock: yeah?
[05:24] <LaserJock> might make it a bit easier
[05:24] <tritium> Very good.
[05:25] <LaserJock> I think we'd also like to make sure our policy documentation is good enough that people that step out for a while aren't completely confused
[05:25] <LaserJock> I know that's been a struggle for a lot of people
[05:25] <LaserJock> you take a vacation for a week and all the procedures have changed
[05:25] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I remember a couple of times last year when I was out of the loop for a bit, when I came back, ti took me quite a while to get back up to speed.
[05:25] <LaserJock> or so they tell me ;-)
[05:26] <LaserJock> maybe I'll take a vacation just to see how it is
[05:26] <tritium> It'll take me some time to get back up to speed, I'm sure.
[05:26] <ajmitch> maybe for all of feisty+1
[05:27] <bddebian> noooo
[05:27] <ajmitch> bddebian: ?
[05:27] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, that's sounds good
[05:27] <bddebian> ajmitch: You aren't allowed :-)
[05:27] <LaserJock> it's not like we'd be missed
[05:27] <LaserJock> not like if bddebian disappeared
[05:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I might actually be interested in ubuntu after the 6 months are up
[05:27] <bddebian> LaserJock: pfft, you wouldn't even know I was gone :)
[05:28] <LaserJock> sure I would
[05:28] <TheMuso> My interest in Ubuntu will never die!!
[05:28] <tritium> bddebian: I knew when you were gone for a bit last time for sure
[05:28] <ajmitch> TheMuso: I'm glad
[05:28] <ajmitch> TheMuso: for that you get a gold star & the madate to fix up universe
[05:28] <LaserJock> bddebian: yeah
[05:28] <TheMuso> Short of being force not to work on open source projects, I will hang around here until something life changing comse my way that makes me go elsewhere.
[05:28] <ajmitch> s/madate/mandate/
[05:28] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm doing the best I can.
[05:29] <bddebian> TheMuso: Never say never.  Notice my nick ;-)
[05:29] <tritium> Will any of you be up in Portland?
[05:29] <LaserJock> I don't think I will :(
[05:29] <TheMuso> bddebian: Dam right.
[05:29] <LaserJock> even though I'm the closest I thnk
[05:29] <ajmitch> tritium: nope, I'm not going to any conferences or summits
[05:29] <LaserJock> I think I'll go to Spain
[05:29] <tritium> ajmitch: darn, I missed you in San Francisco, too
[05:29] <bddebian> Nothing but Granola Eatin' Tree Huggin' Bunny Lovers in Portland, what the hell would you want to go there for?
[05:30] <LaserJock> bddebian: I have an uncle and aunt there
[05:30] <bddebian> LaserJock: I used to go to Portland (well Beaverton) all the time for Nike :-)
[05:30] <LaserJock> bddebian: you're assesement isn't that far from the truth ;-)
[05:30] <tritium> bddebian: I lived in Seattle for 2 years.  I liked it up there.
[05:31] <tritium> I even liked my friends from Microsoft ;)
[05:31] <LaserJock> I want rain!
[05:31] <bddebian> It's pretty
[05:31] <LaserJock> I'm tired of stupid desert
[05:31] <tritium> hey, now, LaserJock
[05:31] <LaserJock> oh, that's right
[05:31] <LaserJock> gotta go hang with tritium down in the "beautiful New Mexico desert"
[05:31] <bddebian> LaserJock: Come to PA, I need a mentor closer by :-)
[05:32] <ajmitch> hehe
[05:32] <tritium> LaserJock: :)
[05:32] <tritium> Are we forming a mentorship program?  I could use a mentor...
[05:32] <ajmitch> sure
[05:32] <tritium> Especially if I try to stay active.
[05:32] <tritium> woohoo, where do I sign up?
[05:32] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors
[05:33] <bddebian> ajmitch: You're supposed to be mine damnit! :-)
[05:33] <ajmitch> bddebian: you don't need it
[05:33] <tritium> Ah, that's awesome.
[05:33] <ajmitch> ok, I'm off the lsit
[05:33] <bddebian> I don't?  Since when? :)
[05:34] <LaserJock> bddebian: no you don't, you should *be* a mentor
[05:35] <bddebian> I'm on the list but everytime I reply to someone, they never come back :-)
[05:35] <ajmitch> bddebian: noone's been brave enough to ask me
[05:35] <ajmitch> so there's no point me being on the list
[05:36] <tritium> ajmitch: you've already informally mentored me
[05:36] <bddebian> ajmitch: I asked you but you won't have me :'-(
[05:36] <tritium> Ah, it seems like yesterday, but I think it was years ago by now.
[05:36] <ajmitch> tritium: I'm ok with informal help
[05:36] <ajmitch> I just don't want to discourage any new people :)
[05:37] <ajmitch> bddebian: because you don't need it
[05:38] <ajmitch> there's nothing I can teach you
[05:42] <bddebian> Later man
[05:43] <tritium> See you, ajmitch 
[05:46] <LaserJock> phew
[05:47] <LaserJock> replied to 4 Mentor requests
[05:47] <LaserJock> I forgot I had them in my mailbox
[05:47] <tritium> LaserJock: you have lots of mentees now?
[05:47] <LaserJock> heh, we'll see
[05:47] <LaserJock> as of right now I don't have any
[05:48] <LaserJock> I was just responding to inital emails
[05:48] <tritium> I see.
[05:48] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if they are still interested though
[05:48] <LaserJock> generally the mentorees are really really new
[05:48] <LaserJock> and get scared off pretty easily
[05:48] <bddebian> Yeah :-(
[05:49] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Really?
[05:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:49] <LaserJock> I've gotten a few "I just installed Ubuntu today and it's great. How do I develop for Linux?"
[05:50] <tritium> :)
[05:51] <TheMuso> right
[05:53] <bddebian> Heh, I still wonder how I actually got accepted to this group :-)
[05:54] <LaserJock> bddebian: and I wonder how long it'll take before you realize you belong in this group
[05:54] <bddebian> LaserJock: Probably never :_)
[05:55] <LaserJock> ok, guys it's 10pm and time for me to get home
[05:56] <bddebian> Gnight man
[05:56] <tritium> Good night, Laser_away 
[05:59] <ajmitch> ok, home now
[06:01] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I thought you walk to/from work.
[06:01] <TheMuso> That seems awefully quick.
[06:02] <ajmitch> TheMuso: I do
[06:02] <ajmitch> < 10 minutes
[06:02] <TheMuso> ah
[06:02] <TheMuso> That must really be quite convenient.
[06:02] <ajmitch> quite :)
[06:02] <ajmitch> 10 minutes in the other direction to uni
[06:04] <bddebian> Ah well 1am, time for bed for this old man.. What a way to spend a b-day :'-(
[06:04] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:04] <tritium> Good night, bddebian 
[06:05] <bddebian> Take care tritium :-)
[06:06] <TheMuso> as in, not as separate patch files.
[06:09] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Who knows... It's a big mess out there in the archive.
[06:10] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Very likely.
[06:16] <imbrandon> re
[06:16] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[06:17] <imbrandon> ello
[06:17] <ajmitch> wb imbrandon 
[06:33] <TheMuso> Is it imperative that a changelog entry states that the maintainer field has been changed?
[06:34] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: It's generally regarded as good practise to list all changes, but it's probably not imperative.
[06:34] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Aware of the former, didn't think the latter was the case. Thanks.
[06:49] <Laser_away> I think if you're going to bother to change it and do a changelog entry you might as well
[06:51] <TheMuso> I personally would, but I'm just wondering whether I should pull a hopeful up on it, and get them to redo their patch to add it.
[06:52] <Laser_away> oh, I'd probably do it myself and let them know
[06:53] <Laser_away> no need to hold up progress
[07:00] <rourke> in default dapper and edgy, freetype's "without_bytecode_interpreter" variable is set to 0 or 1?
[07:22] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee!
[07:23] <Hobbsee> hey TheMuso!
[07:23] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: How goes it?
[07:23] <ajmitch> hey TheHobbsee
[07:23] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i escaped from electronics tute
[07:23] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[07:24] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Howd you manage that?
[07:25] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: not sure
[07:46] <rourke> in default dapper and edgy, freetype's "without_bytecode_interpreter" variable is set to 0 or 1?
[07:48] <Hobbsee> rourke: sounds like a #ubuntu type of question - and a very specific one, so you probably wont get an answer
[07:52] <rourke> Hobbsee: thanks
[07:53] <rourke> Hobbsee: i'll try in #ubuntu-devel too
[07:54] <Hobbsee> rourke: it wont help
[07:54] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
[08:11] <Hobbsee> seems to be >50 pages per week
[08:11] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: because it doesnt matter what size it is, people still ignore it, and think that if they try hard enough, a developer will see their thread.
[08:11] <Fujitsu> The "this is not a freaking bugtracker, idiots" bit could also do with enlarging.
[08:12] <Hobbsee> *and* a stapler - wow!
[08:12] <Hobbsee> :D
[08:12] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hehe, yes.  but people dont read
[08:52] <rourke> will feisty include selinux?
[08:53] <tepsipakki> yes, but not on by default
[08:53] <tepsipakki> it has been there for a long time, btw..
[08:53] <tepsipakki> and -> #ubuntu
[08:54] <ajmitch> not in any sense of being able to use it properly
[08:55] <Uatschitchun> Hi all!
[08:55] <rourke> ajmitch: why not being able to use it properly? what's wrong with it
[08:55] <rourke> tepsipakki: will it ever be a default? if not, will anything similar be default in ubuntu?
[08:56] <Uatschitchun> TheMuso: 'R you available?
[08:57] <tepsipakki> rourke: I think Debian needs to do it first
[08:58] <StevenK> Why would that be the case?
[08:58] <imbrandon> why would debian need to do it first ( or at all )
[08:58] <tepsipakki> just guessing
[08:58] <Uatschitchun> StevenK: Remember my problem with not showing menu-item yesterday?
[08:58] <Uatschitchun> StevenK: Got the solution and wanted to let you knoe ;)
[08:59] <ajmitch> imbrandon: because there are a number of packages to be touched, and policy to be fixed
[08:59] <tepsipakki> yes, it would make the delta bigger
[08:59] <imbrandon> ajmitch, dosent mean we couldent do it we wanted and posh back ( ala upstart )
[08:59] <ajmitch> imbrandon: sure, find someone who'll actually do it
[08:59] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:59] <tepsipakki> heh
[09:00] <ajmitch> it's been on my TODO list for so long
[09:00] <ajmitch> was discussed at UDS, etc
[09:00] <StevenK> Uatschitchun: Oh nice, what was it?
[09:00] <tepsipakki> and then we could forget apparmor for good :)
[09:00] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea 
[09:01] <imbrandon> i dont bother with it no see a need to on a non-server system imho , but thats a nother war like emacs vs vim vs nano
[09:01] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:01] <imbrandon> s/no/nor/
[09:01] <StevenK> imbrandon: Non-server machines don't need to be secured, hrm?
[09:02] <imbrandon> non server machines normaly only have one user
[09:02] <Uatschitchun> StevenK: As I ship the desktop-file within the binary-indep package, which get's installed before the binary, the option 'TryExec' within desktop-file was wrong cause it looks for the called binary, which is installed after the indep package ... So all packages shipping desktop-files within indep-package may not have 'TryExec'!
[09:03] <StevenK> imbrandon: Which is an orthongal issue.
[09:03] <Uatschitchun> StevenK: As long as indep gets installed before binary )
[09:03] <StevenK> orthogonal, even
[09:04] <StevenK> Uatschitchun: Heh, tricky.
[09:05] <Uatschitchun> StevenK: Yeah .. did cost me hours to find ;(
[09:06] <StevenK> imbrandon: Just because most desktop machines have only one user does not mean they aren't suitable for SELinux. Desktop machines can and do get cracked as well.
[09:08] <imbrandon> i'm not saying they cant, i'm saying imho selinux ( and most anything past whats already in place most of the time + good practices ) is overkill
[09:08] <imbrandon> just _my_ .000002c
[09:09] <StevenK> imbrandon: Remind me of that after I gain root privledges on your desktop and blog your GPG private key.
[09:11] <Hobbsee> StevenK: i could have done that.  in fact, probably still can
[09:11] <imbrandon> .........
[09:11] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, nope , you cant
[09:11] <imbrandon> ( and you never could with this key )
[09:11] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah yes, as the build machines dont have your private key on them, presumably
[09:12] <imbrandon> um no
[09:12] <imbrandon> that would be a tad ignorant
[09:12] <imbrandon> seeing how 63+ people have root virtualy
[09:12] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:12] <Hobbsee> yeah...
[09:12] <StevenK> There's no virtual about it.
[09:12] <StevenK> They *have* root.
[09:13] <imbrandon> StevenK, yes but you know what i mean
[09:13] <StevenK> Hrm, intrepid doesn't like my password. Curious.
[09:14] <imbrandon> intrepid shouldent allow you to password login
[09:14] <imbrandon> unless you rooted and changed it
[09:14] <StevenK> I have a key, I can't sudo
[09:14] <imbrandon> right
[09:15] <StevenK> And if I was going to root intrepid, I would have changed two passwords, and they wouldn't be mine.
[09:15] <imbrandon> StevenK, is it not working ?
[09:15] <Hobbsee> StevenK: connecting via the right username?
[09:15] <imbrandon> StevenK, heh
[09:15] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I have a shell.
[09:15] <Hobbsee> your point?
[09:15] <StevenK> imbrandon: For fifty points, which two would I change?
[09:16] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I wouldn't be able to connect if my username was wrong.
[09:16] <imbrandon> account 0 and no idea
[09:16] <StevenK> imbrandon: Yours, so you couldn't fix it.
[09:16] <imbrandon> ahh /me would call ajmi*tch or sire*tart 
[09:16] <imbrandon> heh
[09:17] <imbrandon> actualy no i would just reboot into single usermode and ....
[09:17] <imbrandon> well lets just not do it
[09:17] <StevenK> single user isn't enough
[09:17] <StevenK> You'd also need init=/bin/sh
[09:17] <Hobbsee> StevenK: ahh
[09:17] <imbrandon> sure it is, it would drop me to a root shell
[09:17] <imbrandon> well yea
[09:17] <StevenK> single user runs sulogin, which requires a password.
[09:17] <imbrandon> assuming you only changed the pass
[09:18] <imbrandon> single drops directly to a root shell , no password prompt
[09:18] <siretart> always these fake hilights...
[09:18] <StevenK> But the point is, sudo ought to work on intrepid.
[09:18] <siretart> morning folks, btw
[09:18] <imbrandon> StevenK, sudo works, what are you trying ?
[09:18] <siretart> huhu StevenK 
[09:19] <StevenK> imbrandon: sudo pbuilder-edgy login
[09:19] <imbrandon> drop the sudo ( e.g. just "pbuilder-edgy login" )
[09:19] <StevenK> Yes.
[09:19] <imbrandon> should work
[09:19] <StevenK> I figured that out after I typed it here.
[09:20] <imbrandon> hehe ;)
[09:20] <imbrandon> anyhow , brb , smokies time
[09:23] <dholbach> good morning
[09:23] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[09:23] <dholbach> hey TheMuso
[09:24] <ajmitch> morning dholbach 
[09:24] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[09:29] <imbrandon> moins dholbach 
[09:31] <dholbach> heya imbrandon
[10:15] <pochu> morning all!
[10:15] <TheMuso> Heya pochu.
[10:16] <pochu> hi TheMuso :)
[10:16] <pochu> TheMuso: ready for sponsor me? :)
[10:16] <pochu> Bug #90407
[10:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
[10:18] <TheMuso> pochu: Where can I get the .diff.gz/.dsc files?
[10:19] <pochu> TheMuso: oups, I forgot to attach them
[10:19] <pochu> TheMuso: one minute!
[10:20] <TheMuso> Sure.
[10:21] <TheMuso> pochu: I'm downloading the source now.
[10:21] <TheMuso> the upstream tarball that is.
[10:21] <pochu> hehe :)
[10:21] <pochu> it's really large, so I didn't attach it :)
[10:21] <TheMuso> Good idea.
[10:22] <TheMuso> pochu: With new upstream versions, its often easier to just put the package files on some webspace if you have access to some, and point people to them from the bu.
[10:22] <TheMuso> bug
[10:22] <TheMuso> Thats what I did in the past.
[10:22] <pochu> TheMuso: ah, ok :)
[10:23] <TheMuso> IMO its just a bit quicker to get things together and done.
[10:23] <TheMuso> Note that this is only in the case where the upstream tarball changes.
[10:23] <TheMuso> If you don't want to, or don't have any webspace, thats fine.
[10:24] <pochu> TheMuso: isn't enough the debdiff?
[10:24] <pochu> dunno why, but none of my builts did a diff.gz
[10:25] <StevenK> No .orig
[10:25] <StevenK> Which means the build tools assume native.
[10:25] <TheMuso> pochu: The .orig.tar.gz file is different.
[10:25] <TheMuso> To the previous version.
[10:25] <TheMuso> As I was saying earlier.
[10:25] <pochu> ah, so should I put an especific command?
[10:26] <pochu> when building?
[10:26] <TheMuso> pochu: Make sure the new upstream tarball is included in the .dsc file.
[10:27] <pochu> http://librarian.launchpad.net/6839388/wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
[10:28] <TheMuso> pochu: Got it.
[10:28] <TheMuso> pochu: You haven't packaged it properly.
[10:28] <TheMuso> Look at the .dsc file.
[10:28] <pochu> TheMuso: I packaged it with 'dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot' and also in a pbuilder
[10:28] <TheMuso> You should have an .orig.tar.gz, as well as a .diff.gz.
[10:29] <TheMuso> pochu: Hang on, let me look at the version in Ubuntu.
[10:29] <pochu> thanks :)
[10:33] <pochu> teorically, the new diff.gz is the old diff.gz with the debdiff applied, isn't it?
[10:33] <TheMuso> pochu: Hang on, still downloading here.
[10:35] <TheMuso> another 4 minutes at least.
[10:35] <pochu> TheMuso: I have all the day ;)
[10:35] <TheMuso> pochu: I know that.
[10:40] <TheMuso> pochu: Ok its downloaded, and its just unpacking. I'll have a look.
[10:40] <pochu> TheMuso: ty very much!
[10:41] <TheMuso> pochu: Ok, do you have the version of wesnoth that is in Ubuntu there?
[10:41] <pochu> TheMuso: yep :)
[10:42] <pochu> the debdiff is against it
[10:42] <TheMuso> Ok. Have a look at the dsc file associated with that version, wesnoth_1.2-1.dsc.
[10:43] <pochu> looking
[10:43] <TheMuso> You will notice that it mentions two files. The .diff.gz, and the .orig.tar.gz.
[10:43] <TheMuso> Now take a look at your .dsc file.
[10:43] <TheMuso> wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
[10:43] <pochu> yep, you're right :)
[10:43] <TheMuso> You will notice that it only refers to one file, wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
[10:43] <TheMuso> There should be an .orig.tar.gz, and a .diff.gz.
[10:44] <pochu> but there isn't, so I've done something really bad :S
[10:45] <sistpoty> hi folks
[10:45] <pochu> heya sistpoty :)
[10:45] <sistpoty> hi pochu
[10:45] <siretart> huhu Stefan!
[10:45] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[10:46] <TheMuso> pochu: What I would suggest, is to unpack the original source into a clean directory, and rezip it naming the file wesnoth_1.2.2.orig.tar.gz
[10:46] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty, siretart 
[10:46] <ajmitch> sistpoty: you're up early!
[10:46] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch... definitely ;)
[10:46] <siretart> ajmitch: he is supposed to finished his thesis ;)
[10:46] <TheMuso> pochu: Then keep the wesnoth dir that you unpacked, and copy the debian dir from your original dir into that one.
[10:47] <TheMuso> Then try and build the source package.
[10:47] <sistpoty> ajmitch: my gf needs to get up early now, since university for her started... maybe I will adjust as well ;)
[10:47] <pochu> TheMuso: gonna try :)
[10:48] <ajmitch> good luck ;)
[10:49] <sistpoty> oh, we don't have an agenda for MC meeting yet... should I add some points or will just start w.o. an agenda?
[10:52] <ajmitch> sistpoty: oh we have *plenty* to talk about, it just needs added ;)
[10:53] <dholbach> better to have a clear agenda
[10:53] <dholbach> else the meeting will take even longer
[10:53] <ajmitch> yep
[10:53] <ajmitch> and I'll have to drink even more
[10:53] <ajmitch> we can't have that
[10:54] <dholbach> ajmitch: it won't be that bad :)
[10:54] <imbrandon> lol
[10:54] <TheMuso> haha
[10:54] <imbrandon> i might be in an out , but i'll be arround ( i'm at work )
[10:54] <imbrandon> ;)
[10:55] <dholbach> that sounds as if MC meetings were a radio program ;-)
[10:55] <dholbach> although that'd be a great idea :)
[10:55] <imbrandon> hehe for the vision impaired it kinda is a radio show ;)
[10:55] <TheMuso> dholbach: Well I do literally listen to what is being written in the channel. :)
[10:56] <dholbach> "Hey Stefan, I think we have a call coming in from Australia, oh, it's Luke - let's listen what he has to say on the topic..." :-)
[10:56] <sistpoty> hehe
[10:56] <TheMuso> hahahaha
[10:56] <sistpoty> MC live on air ;)
[10:56] <TheMuso> Has anybody thought of doing an Ubuntu podcast?
[10:57] <dholbach> there are some podcasts I believe
[10:57] <imbrandon> i have several times
[10:58] <crimsun> Apologies, but my local Internet connection appears very unstable on the local end, so I'm going to drive over to the office. Unfortunately this means I'll be ~20 mins tardy for MC. 
[10:58] <ajmitch> crimsun: that's ok - I'm impressed by your dedication
[10:58] <dholbach> crimsun: me too, you're a star
[10:59] <ajmitch> especially given the time of day there
[10:59] <sistpoty> if nobody objects, we can maybe start a little bit later? then I'll enjoy morning sun with a coffee and a cigarette ;)
[10:59] <TheMuso> Damn right.
[10:59] <imbrandon> brb in 5 , smoke break before the MC
[10:59] <dholbach> sistpoty: take the laptop outside
[10:59] <gpocentek> I will have to leave at 11H10 UTC
[10:59] <sistpoty> dholbach: laptop cheater :P
[11:00] <gpocentek> hello all BTW :)
[11:00] <sistpoty> hi gpocentek
[11:00] <ajmitch> hi gpocentek :)
[11:00] <dholbach> hey gpocentek
[11:00] <imbrandon> hey gpocentek 
[11:00] <sistpoty> dholbach: don't have a laptop, at least none on which I can work right now ;)
[11:06] <TheMuso> pochu: Hows it going?
[11:06] <pochu> TheMuso: attaching :)
[11:06] <pochu> TheMuso: it worked ;)
[11:06] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:06] <pochu> TheMuso: done :D
[11:06] <TheMuso> Ok thanks.
[11:09] <pochu> thanks to you!
[11:15] <TheMuso> pochu: Just sorting out tarballs etc here, I'll be with you shortly.
[11:16] <pochu> ok, thank you :)
[11:16] <TheMuso> pochu: Did you originally take the upstream source for the package from a .bz2 file? If so, how did you retar it as a .orig.tar.gz file?
[11:17] <jussi01> hi motu's, sorry to disturb, can someone tell me if we have a guitar tuning program in the repos?
[11:17] <TheMuso> jussi01: You can use apt-cache search to have a look.
[11:17] <pochu> TheMuso: I unzipped it, and then zipped as tar.gz :)
[11:18] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[11:18] <jussi01> TheMuso, thanks, 
[11:26] <siretart> to not clutter -meeting: the KDE4 case shows that we need something like PPA or even better, an ubuntu-experimental archive
[11:27] <TheMuso> siretart: That has come up several times.
[11:27] <ajmitch> siretart: it's ok, the discussion is quite calm so far ;)
[11:35] <TheMuso> pochu: The md5sum of my orig is different, but thats no real matter. I just rebuilt the dsc, and am about to have a quick look and do a test build.
[11:35] <pochu> TheMuso: that's fine :)
[11:42] <TheMuso> pochu: Test building.
[11:43] <pochu> :D
[11:45] <pochu> TheMuso: I'm out for a bit, but I'll be back! :)
[11:45] <TheMuso> pochu: Sure.
[11:57] <fernando> moin all
[12:08] <eXistenZ> I downloaded the source package of Kalcul and tried to rebuild it with pbuilder. Can anyone help me with this error: http://rafb.net/p/qoAWS270.html .
[12:14] <shawarma> eXistenZ: Hehe.. Good one.
[12:21] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[12:22] <TheMuso> Hey once again Hobbsee.
[12:23] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[12:24] <Hobbsee> heya TheMuso!
[12:27] <pochu> TheMuso: do u find everything alright? :)
[12:28] <TheMuso> pochu: Everything looks good, just doing one final quick check before I upload.
[12:28] <pochu> TheMuso: ok, thanks!
[12:30] <TheMuso> pochu: uploading...
[12:30] <pochu> TheMuso: nice :)
[12:30] <TheMuso> This is going to take a while.
[12:30] <pochu> hehe, sure :)
[12:31] <pochu> good luck!
[12:31] <pochu> I hope your upload doesn't get corrupted ;)
[12:31] <TheMuso> pochu: Thats that the .dsc file is for.
[12:32] <TheMuso> and .changes
[12:32] <TheMuso> THey have md5sums in them./
[12:32] <siretart> what happened with the idea to remove all binary packages with unmet deps close before release?
[12:32] <pochu> yep, I say because if it gets corrupted, you'll have to upload again, isn't it?
[12:32] <siretart> has there been any feedback from the archive admins?
[12:33] <TheMuso> pochu: yeah
[12:33] <sistpoty> siretart: no, but I'll ping Mithrandir right now (again)... thanks for reminding me ;)
[12:33] <siretart> sistpoty: k, thanks
[12:35] <sistpoty> lol
[12:36] <pochu> s/lol/love/ ;)
[12:36] <sistpoty> :)
[12:37] <ajmitch> dholbach: one issue I had with massfile is that I don't use gnupg-agent :)
[12:38] <ajmitch> so it wanted to repeatedly ask for a passphrase :)
[12:38] <ajmitch> the other issue was that the mail went into the void
[12:38] <dholbach> ajmitch: strange
[12:39] <ajmitch> usually due to bad gpg sig
[12:41] <sistpoty> siretart: see -devel for removals
[12:44] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yes you are.
[12:44] <TheMuso> You keep up activity overall.
[12:46] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: what, irc activity?
[12:47] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: MOTU activity.
[12:47] <TheMuso> Or general community activity then.
[12:47] <TheMuso> Basically I wasn't excluding you.
[12:49] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you sound about as demotivated as too many people around here :P
[12:49] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i am.  very much so.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: wonder why that is...
[12:49] <Hobbsee> as in, why a lot of people are demotivated, not me specifically
[12:49] <ajmitch> too much work, too little time?
[12:49] <TheMuso> At this point in time, I am very motivated to do Ubuntu related work.
[12:49] <ajmitch> see, not everyone is down :)
[12:50] <sistpoty> At this point in time, I really need to go to uni and work on my these *g*
[12:50] <Hobbsee> which is why i said a lot, not all
[12:50] <jussi01> hehe, me too, Im just not that qualified..
[12:50] <sistpoty> thesis even
[12:50] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: huh?
[12:50] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: as in, propose ideas for the way MOTU works
[12:51] <ajmitch> of course
[12:51] <TheMuso> Motivation can't keep me awake however.
[12:51] <zakame> hmm konversation shows all dates in Sunday?
[12:51] <zakame> hmm bed, Ubuntu-related indeed :P
[12:52] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: I'll update the charter of MC to reflect what was discussed during the meeting now. Maybe you'll want to read the irc-logs (because you joined in after the discussion happened;)
[12:53] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: yes, that's why i said nothing much in the meeting
[12:53] <Hobbsee> gah...what's with the original maintainer stuff?  what do i change it to again?
[12:53] <sistpoty> Mainter -> XSBC-Original-Maintainer (see DebianMaintainerField in the wiki)
[12:54] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: in summary - all decisions should be taken by MOTU as a whole, and the MC steps in if a decision isn't reached in a reasonable time
[12:55] <zakame> hmm more policy, more structure
[12:55] <sistpoty> ok, I'm off to uni now... later folks
[12:56] <dholbach> see you sistpoty
[12:56] <sistpoty> cya dholbach
[12:56] <imbrandon> zakame, really the exact same, only the MC is taking the TB place for "tie breakers"
[12:56] <imbrandon> in short , that is
[12:57] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: nice.
[12:57] <Hobbsee> zakame: may make it better, or worse.
[12:58] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're so cheerful tonight
[12:58] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah.  some guy on crack came into work last night, tried to steal cigarettes, and my nose/mouth is *still* weird from it tonight. 
[12:58] <ajmitch> uh...
[12:58] <ajmitch> that's not good
[12:59] <Hobbsee> no
[12:59] <ajmitch> what happened?
[12:59] <TheMuso> eeew
[12:59] <TheMuso> not good at all
[12:59] <Hobbsee> well, it was thursday night trading, obviously.  the guy was leaning around the kiosk, trying to open the cupboards which are locked down, etc.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> should have got nice footage of him
[01:00] <zakame> hmm I'm having flaky connection tonight
[01:01] <ajmitch> why is your nose/mouth weird though?
[01:01] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: See MOTU/TODO on wiki for more bugs.
[01:01] <Hobbsee> dunno.  the stuff *stank* like crazy
[01:02] <ajmitch> worrying
[01:03] <TheMuso> pochu: There is only another 21MB or so to upload of the orig tarball.
[01:14] <TheMuso> Night folks.
[01:14] <ajmitch> night
[01:14] <imbrandon> gnight ajmitch 
[01:14] <Hobbsee> night ajmitch, TheMuso 
[01:15] <Fujitsu> Night ajmitch, TheMuso.
[01:16] <zakame> gnuclient peeps
[01:16] <zakame> er, g'night peeps
[01:43] <proppy> hi !
[01:50] <dholbach> hi proppy
[02:32] <animimotus> hi
[02:32] <animimotus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/edgy-backports/+bug/82543
[02:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82543 in edgy-backports "Please a backport Conky to Edgy ?" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[02:35] <Hobbsee> animimotus: talk to jdong about it.
[02:36] <LaserJock> \o/
[02:36] <animimotus> Hobbsee: since januar end I have ask to a half donzen persons :)
[02:36] <Hobbsee> animimotus: well, we dont do the backports, jdong does.
[02:37] <animimotus> well, where can I found this ghost ? :D
[02:38] <Hobbsee> animimotus: he's on irc a lot of the time
[02:38] <jussi01> animimotus, hes in class - try in a couple of hours
[02:39] <animimotus> ok :)
[02:40] <zakame> in a haunted house?
[02:40] <pochu> TheMuso: thanks! and have sweet dreams :)
[02:42] <DarkMageZ> animimotus, if you are feeling adventurious. you could backport it yourself :P
[02:43] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: not officially, though
[02:43] <DarkMageZ> of course not offically
[02:43] <animimotus> DarkMageZ: more edgy than aventurious in fact, it the reason a have chose Ubuntu :p
[02:44] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i think officially was the point
[02:44] <jussi01> does any one need a tester for any projects? 
[02:44] <jussi01> I need some more stuff to do...
[02:44] <Hobbsee> jussi01: you could fix bugs!
[02:44] <LaserJock> jussi01: hehe, you might want to be careful about saying that in here ;-)
[02:45] <DarkMageZ> jussi01, the rhythmbox guys are always happy to see a good backtrace done against svn.
[02:45] <animimotus> I'm loggued in launchpad but don't seen my profil account oO
[02:45] <jussi01> hehe, Im not super experienced - just a little, and I would need a small guiding hand...
[02:46] <jussi01> DarkMageZ, whats their channel?
[02:48] <DarkMageZ> jussi01, hmm. it'd probably be worthwhile to see exactly where your testing skills are at.
[02:48] <DarkMageZ> jussi01, can you tell the difference between a completely useless backtrace and a potentially useful backtrace?
[02:51] <DarkMageZ> animimotus, if you want. i could backport it for you.
[02:52] <shawarma> YAY! Just booked my flight to Seville.
[02:52] <animimotus> DarkMageZ: I send a mail to jdont
[02:53] <Hobbsee> shawarma: yay!
[02:54] <animimotus> DarkMageZ: however thx
[02:54] <jussi01> DarkMageZ, sorry, was getting food...
[02:55] <DarkMageZ> hmm, once my router stops being trippy from the torrent traffic... i'll see if i can pull the conky source from launchpad
[02:56] <jussi01> DarkMageZ, Im sorry I think maybe I expressed my self wrong, I have been helping build stuff with pbuilder for ubuntustudio... that was what I meant... but I am happy to help/ learn to do other stuff
[02:57] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Are you going?
[02:57] <Hobbsee> shawarma: yeah
[02:57] <DarkMageZ> jussi01, oh. that's cool. you could probably try and find ways to make the ubuntustudio code crash. get abusive to it :P
[02:58] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Cool. Are you paying for it yourself?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> shawarma: no.  sponsorship
[02:58] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Oh, I didn't know they had been handed out yet.
[02:59] <Hobbsee> shawarma: they're being done differently this time - and very quietly
[02:59] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Good to know, though. I can't stop holding my breath.
[02:59] <shawarma> Not that I really was expecting it.
[02:59] <DarkMageZ> animimotus, if you want. there's an unoffical conky package built from launchpad's sources against edgy x86 @ http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/conky_1.4.5-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[03:06] <DarkMageZ> night all, 1am. have fun.
[03:11] <LaserJock> ok, I need a quick user poll
[03:12] <LaserJock> how many people can selectivly turn on the display of email headers in the client?
[03:13] <LaserJock> wow, don't all answer at once
[03:15] <gnomefreak> i think TB can i never tried though. I know i can view them but to set it im sure i can
[03:16] <LaserJock> in TB I can do all headers or regular headers
[03:16] <LaserJock> but I can find where to say "I want this header displayed"
[03:16] <gnomefreak> yes that is it
[03:16] <gnomefreak> all or regular
[03:16] <LaserJock> *can't
[03:17] <LaserJock> anybody know what evo and kmail do?
[03:17] <danohuiginn> LaserJock:kmail has options for all, none, and a set selection
[03:17] <danohuiginn> don't think you can turn individual headers on/off
[03:17] <danohuiginn> but the option might be hidden somewhere
[03:18] <LaserJock> danohuiginn: ok, thanks
[03:18] <LaserJock> evo? anybody an evolution user?
[03:20] <shawarma> LaserJock: I can.
[03:20] <shawarma> Er.. with mutt, that is.
[03:20] <shawarma> Not evolution, but I seem to remember that Evolution does it too.
[03:21] <LaserJock> yeah, I knew mutt could (it can do anything)
[03:21] <LaserJock> I'm having a debate with LP about telling people what package a bug is for in the bug email
[03:22] <LaserJock> they say the X-Launchpad-Bug header should be sufficent context
[03:22] <LaserJock> but I don't think many users can even see that header very easily
[03:24] <danohuiginn> just checked evo, and it lets you display individual headers
[03:24] <LaserJock> man, that's about the only positive thing I know about evo
[03:25] <LaserJock> it ate my IMAP setup once and we haven't been friends since ;-)
[03:50] <LaserJock> bah
[03:50] <LaserJock> all this fancy "bling"
[04:12] <imbrandon> kmail will let you set filters on certain headers iirc, but you either see all or none iirc
[04:12] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ^
[04:18] <gnomefreak> can anyone look at this build log and give me some sort of idea on what could be causing it? its large paste because i wasnt sure where to start from http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/397496
[04:23] <Adri2000> gnomefreak: maybe ask asac? ;)
[04:23] <gnomefreak> Adri2000: yeah i just sent him email about it hes haveing connection issues
[04:23] <gnomefreak> thats why i asked in here :)
[04:24] <Adri2000> ok
[04:52] <eXistenZ> gnomefreak: What do you think of this error:  http://rafb.net/p/qoAWS270.html ?
[04:55] <gnomefreak> eXistenZ: maybe try autoconf 2.53 to be on safe side? not real sure if (GNU Autoconf) is the same
[04:55] <Laser_away> MC happened already, right?
[04:56] <gnomefreak> MC?
[04:56] <siretart> yepp, a few hours ago
[04:56] <siretart> gnomefreak: motu council
[04:56] <gnomefreak> ah
[04:57] <lfittl> dholbach, ping
[04:58] <dholbach> lfittl: pong
[05:11] <Laser_away> oh man, I missed a lot at the meeting :(
[05:12] <eXistenZ> gnomefreak: what autoconf do you use?
[05:19] <eXistenZ> gnomefreak: still there?
[05:25] <danirus> Hi, excuse me, I have a question about a bug I've fixed 
[05:29] <Adri2000> danirus: ask
[05:34] <danirus> excuse, I was at phone, but i'm here again
[05:35] <danirus> I fix a bug, and I would like to know if I should look for someone to sponsor the package or not.
[05:35] <lfittl> danirus, which bug number?
[05:35] <danirus> I've subscribed Ubuntu Sponsors for universe
[05:35] <danirus> 69701
[05:37] <danirus> I'd like to be involved in packaging, and maybe I can upload it
[05:37] <gnomefreak> eXistenZ: yes im sort of here
[05:42] <eXistenZ> gnomefreak: I cannot seem to find 2.53 on the repos
[05:44] <lfittl> danirus, could you provide a patch that only contains the changes from the last ubuntu version, and not the whole .diff.gz?
[05:44] <lfittl> so, a patch that only contains your changes
[05:45] <danirus> lfittl, yes, I'll do it
[05:45] <lfittl> :)
[05:46] <gnomefreak> eXistenZ: its most likely not in cache anymore. are you sure you have all the build depends needed to build it? you might have to search for it but the version you have installed should work but not sure what you are building/why you are building it/and what it needs to build
[05:46] <eXistenZ> gnomefreak: I downloaded the source package of kalcul and tried to rebuild it with pbuilder
[05:47] <eXistenZ> yes I have build dependencie
[05:47] <eXistenZ> *dependencies
[05:48] <gnomefreak> eXistenZ: does it build outside of pbuilder?
[05:48] <gnomefreak> eXistenZ: maybe thats what the this package is only built for CVS meant (or whatever it said)
[05:51] <Adri2000> bug 69701
[05:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69701 in tktable "tktable installs faulty pkgIndex.tcl" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69701
[05:55] <yotam> can I ask here a question about packaging?
[05:57] <_MMA_> yes
[06:02] <yotam> The packaging guide describes how to create package   foo.deb  based on  foo_<ver>.tar.gz   But ...
[06:02] <yotam> what if you want it to be dependent also on bar1_<ver>.tar.gz and bar2_<ver>.tar.gz  ???
[06:03] <azeem> you'd have to aggregate the various tarballs into a new .orig.tar.gz and extract them during the package build
[06:05] <yotam> Aha!  so the aggregation - is my own - and I should make my own version bumping of it ?
[06:06] <eXistenZ> yotam: meefo ata?
[06:07] <azeem> yotam: do bar1 and bar2 have different <ver>?
[06:17] <danohuiginn> Has anybody tried to make a list of packages missing .desktop files?
[06:17] <danohuiginn> It looks like it'd be pretty easy to automatically generate a list of packages which have /usr/share/menu but not /usr/share/applications in the file list (i.e. have debian menus but not gnome/kde menus)
[06:17] <danohuiginn> would that be a useful thing to do?
[06:21] <jdong> slomo__: I found you an early christmas present: http://www.meebey.net/jaws/?gadget=Blog&action=SingleView&id=37
[06:22] <jdong> you don't need to package it anymore :)
[06:22] <slomo__> jdong: i know, i talked with him about it today
[06:23] <jdong> slomo__: well.. that sucks. now I have to find you a real present.
[06:23] <slomo__> :P
[06:34] <danirus> Hi lfittl, I left the patch in the bug report page
[06:34] <danirus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tktable/+bug/69701
[06:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69701 in tktable "tktable installs faulty pkgIndex.tcl" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[06:35] <gnomefreak> is there a way to use apt-get build-dep to show the list of packages even if they are installed already
[06:41] <lfittl> danirus, ok, and as I see it you want that updated in edgy, or would it be enough to update it in feisty?
[06:49] <Adri2000> to which email address does archive@u.c send the accepted mails? preferred address in LP?
[06:49] <danirus> It would be better if we update it also in edgy
[06:50] <danirus> I'm building other packages for our people and most of them are using edgy (I hope the will move to Feisty, but it will take time)
[06:52] <danirus> lfittl, thanks for your support
[06:53] <lfittl> danirus, ok, if you have tested the patch and the problem is now fixed, I can upload your fix to feisty, for edgy somebody with more knowledge of tcl should review it
[06:53] <danirus> that's perfect
[06:54] <danirus> yes, I've tested it and it works
[07:14] <lfittl> danirus, ok, it seems like the package tktable got replaced with tktable2.9 in feisty, any chance you could test the version in feisty if it works for you?
[07:15] <danirus> yes, 1 minute and I confirm you
[07:19] <danirus> lfittl, I've tested in feisty and edgy, and works Ok in both
[07:20] <lfittl> wait, I thought the edgy version was broken and your patch fixes it?
[07:21] <lfittl> or do you mean, your version in edgy works, and ubuntu's version in feisty works as well?
[07:21] <danirus> yes
[07:21] <danirus> that's it
[07:22] <danirus> this morning I need tktable, I saw the problem, and I fixed it
[07:22] <danirus> I would like to join some Ubuntu team
[07:23] <lfittl> ok, then I won't upload this to edgy, and you should inform yourself about Stable Release Updates (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU), and then hope that somebody from the Ubuntu Universe Sponsors team finds time for the bug
[07:24] <lfittl> best thing is to contact the team directly which you are interested in, or create one if such a team does not yet exist
[07:25] <danirus> Ok lfittl, I'm glad to talk with you
[07:25] <danirus> thanks for your support
[07:25] <lfittl> no problem, thanks for your work :)
[09:01] <TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
[09:04] <fernando> hey TheMuso 
[09:05] <Q-FUNK> hey
[09:26] <TheMuso> pochu: Wesnoth has not long completely finished building on all arches.
[09:31] <pochu> s/not/now/ ?
[09:31] <pochu> TheMuso: ^
[09:32] <TheMuso> pochu: Yep you're right sorry.
[09:34] <pochu> TheMuso: ok, I was afraid :S
[09:34] <pochu> hehe
[10:11] <jussi01> hi all, can someone point me to a page describing .desktop files? 
[10:12] <TheMuso> jussi01: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
[10:12] <jussi01> thanks
[10:13] <TheMuso> np
[10:32] <danohuiginn> jussi01: if you get bored, i'm currently making a list of the 100+ packages that are missing desktop files... ;)
[10:33] <jussi01> danohuiginn, send the list over...
[10:33] <jussi01> jussi01 @ gmail.com
[10:33] <jussi01> when your done
[10:35] <danohuiginn> jussi: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10678/ :D
[10:35] <jussi01> thanks...:D
[10:36] <danohuiginn> I'll put it somewhere more public once it gets through the alphabet
[10:36] <danohuiginn> no, thank you!
[10:37] <jussi01> also if you can sen a copy over to my email if you dont mind...
[10:37] <danohuiginn> sure, will do
[10:37] <jussi01> just remeber to take out the spaces...
[10:37] <LaserJock> danohuiginn: how are you determinaning that list?
[10:39] <danohuiginn> LaserJock: packages which have a debian menu entry, but no gnome menu entry
[10:39] <danohuiginn> file list contains /usr/share/menu, but not /usr/share/applications
[10:40] <Fujitsu> Note that there are menu entries for some CLI applications which really don't deserve .desktops.
[10:40] <danohuiginn> fair point, Fujitsu. Is there a policy somewhere on what packages should have .desktops?
[10:41] <LaserJock> danohuiginn: ones that are useful as menu items ;-)
[10:42] <danohuiginn> great :)
[11:01] <geser> TheMuso: universe will have a hard freeze? that's news to me
[11:01] <TheMuso> geser: I remember reading that somewhere.
[11:01] <TheMuso> I must admit I haven't confirmed that, but anyway.
[11:02] <geser> I remember the opposite
[11:02] <TheMuso> oh ok
[11:02] <lupine_85> hi jdong
[11:03] <jdong> oh hi lupine_85
[11:03] <Fujitsu> I thought we were having one in the last week...
[11:03] <lupine_85> I heard the updated xserver-xgl got in, so I didn't put it in the repo ;)
[11:03] <geser> TheMuso: see my question at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/MOTU/20070122 around 9:38 / 9:39
[11:03] <jdong> lupine_85: that's correct, xserver-xgl is all sorted out now :)
[11:03] <jdong> lupine_85: congrats on Beryl 0.2.0 release
[11:03] <lupine_85> thanks :)
[11:04] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: GLad its not just me.
[11:04] <LaserJock> geser: heh, that looks strangly familar
[11:05] <LaserJock> I think later on we might have decided to have the last week as a hard freeze
[11:05] <LaserJock> but I can't remember when that came up
[11:06] <geser> as long it's only the last week and not starting next week
[11:06] <animimotus> jdong: John could you explain quickly how the conky package is now going to spread ?
[11:06] <animimotus> (if you have some secondes)
[11:07] <jdong> animimotus: next time ubuntu-archive team processes backports queue, the package will be built and published within an hour.
[11:07] <Fujitsu>     *
[11:07] <Fujitsu>       Proposal: during the last week of feisty cycle, require 1 ACK from an motu-uvf member prior to uploading source
[11:07] <Fujitsu>       Decision: unanimous approval
[11:07] <animimotus> ok, and then it will be sent to all mirrors?
[11:07] <Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meetings/2007-02-23
[11:08] <TheMuso> RIghto. I thought there was one, but thought it was sooner. Never mind.
[11:08] <geser> Fujitsu: thanks for the pointer
[11:08] <jdong> animimotus: correct
[11:14] <LaserJock> wahoo
[11:14] <LaserJock> kiko rocks
[11:16] <TheMuso> LaserJock: ??
[11:16] <LaserJock> I worked with him this morning
[11:16] <LaserJock> and we're getting a footer and X- header to tell people why they are getting bug email
[11:16] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:17] <Burgwork> does that mean we can sort by package name?
[11:17] <Burgwork> because currently it is hard
[11:17] <LaserJock> well, it  depends
[11:17] <LaserJock> if you are a bug contact for the package it'll show it
[11:18] <LaserJock> so like the header will have X-Launchpad-Bug-Reason: Bug Contact (mozilla-firefox in ubuntu)
[11:19] <LaserJock> and the footer will have a little note that you are getting the email because you are a bug contact for mozilla-firefox
[11:20] <LaserJock> it'll also tell you if it's because you are subscribed to a dup of the bug
[11:20] <TheMuso> Right
[11:20] <TheMuso> Whats the lp link for the new queue again?
[11:21] <LaserJock> launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+new
[11:21] <LaserJock> bah
[11:21] <LaserJock> +queue
[11:21] <TheMuso> right
[11:21] <LaserJock> do you guys think it'd be good to have the package name in the body of *every* bug email?
[11:23] <crimsun> s/package/source package/
[11:23] <TheMuso> Yes actually.
[11:23] <TheMuso> I find myself having to open the bug just to have a look at times
[11:24] <LaserJock> crimsun: sorry, yes
[11:24] <LaserJock> TheMuso: what client do you use for email?
[11:24] <LaserJock> I was debating this with kiko this morning
[11:25] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Mutt.
[11:25] <LaserJock> because he'd like to keep the bug body uncluttered and said that the X-Launchpad-Bug header should be sufficient
[11:26] <TheMuso> Actually... Yes, I could work something from that.
[11:26] <LaserJock> but TBird and Kmail don't seem to be able to selectively show non-standard headers
[11:26] <LaserJock> evo and mutt can
[11:26] <TheMuso> yeah mutt certainly can.
[11:26] <LaserJock> mutt can do anything
[11:27] <LaserJock> I wish TBird wasn't such and easy to use and portable app
[11:27] <TheMuso> Except read receipts, which aren't standards compliant anyway.
[11:27] <LaserJock> because it surely stinks at some things
[11:27] <TheMuso> afaik
[11:27] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Same... I use it, but it is really lacking in some areas.
[11:28] <LaserJock> a Reply-To-List feature and header selectivity would make it much better for me
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Proper GnuPG support would also be nice.
[11:29] <LaserJock> enigmail doesn't work well for you?
[11:29] <Fujitsu> It doesn't use the proper caching mechanisms, for one. That's a little dangerous.
[11:29] <TheMuso> I have always noticed that email from tbird users with gpg has inline signing.
[11:29] <Fujitsu> Coredumps for Thunderbird are dangerous because of that.
[11:30] <TheMuso> signatures even
[11:30] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: There's the option to do PGP/MIME too.
[11:30] <TheMuso> as opposed to attached signatures.
[11:30] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[11:30] <Fujitsu> It's configurable.
[11:30] <TheMuso> Mutt does that by default afaik.
[11:30] <Fujitsu> I'd say it was better to avoid MIME unless it's absolutely necessary.
[11:30] <TheMuso> Although on one List I'm on, I have had to change that. :)
[11:30] <TheMuso> Why so?
[11:30] <TheMuso> The vast majority of people on Ubuntu lists seem to use it.
[11:31] <Fujitsu> It's extra bloat, and it makes reading messages through telnet to a POP3 server more difficult.
[11:31] <ajmitch> hi
[11:31] <Fujitsu> Hi ajmitch.
[11:32] <TheMuso> um ok
[11:33] <Fujitsu> A corner case, perhaps :P
[11:33] <LaserJock> https://beta.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=motu
[11:34] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I've seen that added to a couple of bugs I'm subscribed to. Is good to see.
[11:35] <LaserJock> I also like to see In Progress and Fix Commited ;-)
[11:36] <LaserJock> I especially like the anti-demotivator bug
[11:36] <LaserJock> I kinda threw that one in there ;-)
[11:36] <TheMuso> haha karma for uploads.
[11:37] <LaserJock> can't let those translators and support tracker people get all the glory ;-)
[11:38] <Fujitsu> I always found it a little odd that the people doing the actual main distribution work didn't get karma for it.
[11:39] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:39] <LaserJock> I wonder if it had anything to do with LP not tracking who actually uploaded
[11:40] <TheMuso> Probably.
[11:40] <LaserJock> or maybe they plan on just using changelog entries
[11:40] <LaserJock> I'm not sure who should get the karma
[11:40] <TheMuso> Whenever I've looked at a source package info page for a version, it says who uploaded it, which is not entirely correct.
[11:40] <LaserJock> maybe it should be split if it was sponsored
[11:40] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: It says the name in the changelog, I'm sure.
[11:40] <TheMuso> i.e the changelog entry as LaserJock said.
[11:40] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:40] <Fujitsu> When is that not correct?
[11:41] <TheMuso> If someone else sponsored the upload.
[11:41] <jdong> Fujitsu: it shows whose name is in the changelog last....
[11:41] <jdong> not who actually _uploaded_ it
[11:41] <Fujitsu> jdong: Yes... That's normally correct.
[11:41] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: You're not meant to change the changelog when sponsoring.
[11:41] <geser> LaserJock: you mean we should be able to catch up to Alan Pope (over 120k karma) :)
[11:41] <LaserJock> there is a newish (I think) bug in soyuz about grabbing the uploader from the gpg
[11:41] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: I don't.
[11:42] <jdong> Fujitsu: if you sponsor one of my packages, it'll show as me uploading it
[11:42] <Fujitsu> jdong: Exactly, that's right... You should be getting most of the karma for that.
[11:42] <jdong> same with all backports...
[11:42] <Fujitsu> The signer should perhaps get a bit, but not as much as the name in the changelog.
[11:42] <LaserJock> right
[11:43] <jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, but I think it'd be good to show who did the upload.
[11:43] <LaserJock> although sometimes sponsoring takes longer than the time the sponsoree took to make it
[11:43] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:43] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: True, but there's no way to gauge that...
[11:43] <LaserJock> anyway
[11:43] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if that's the reason we don't get karma or not
[11:43] <geser> it would be good if LP could show the complete changelog and not only the changes of the last .changes file
[11:43] <LaserJock> probably not because it should be easy to use th changelog
[11:44] <LaserJock> geser: yeah, I've been thinking about that one
[11:44] <Fujitsu> geser: It'd also be good if it showed it on the source package release package, not on the distrorelease page.
[11:44] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Indeed.
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Whoever put it there mustn't have been thinking at all.
[11:44] <LaserJock> well
[11:44] <LaserJock> I've talked with LP guys a little on that
[11:45] <LaserJock> and they said something like "user" just wants to see what's changed in their version
[11:45] <LaserJock> so they just want to see what's happend in Edgy for instance
[11:45] <Fujitsu> Since when do users know how to navigate around LP? The navigation there is pathetic, I doubt a normal user could find it.
[11:46] <LaserJock> well, that was the rationale
[11:46] <geser> LaserJock: I've already filed a bug about it: bug #90846
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90846 in soyuz "Please include the complete changelog on the <srcpkg>/+changelog page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90846
[11:46] <LaserJock> but we should have lp.net/ubuntu/+source/<package>/+changelog
[11:46] <Fujitsu> That looks like that bug, LaserJock.
[11:47] <geser> bug #55795 and bug #48735 may be related to it
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55795 in soyuz "+changelog includes misleading information related to package versions and authors" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/55795
[11:47] <TheMuso> bbs
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48735 in soyuz "changelog histories for packages are not viewable/searchable" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48735
[11:47] <LaserJock> and maybe p.net/ubuntu/+source/<package>/<version>/+changelog but I don't know if that's of much interest
[11:47] <LaserJock> s/p.net/lp.net/
[11:47] <LaserJock> geser thanks for those
[11:48] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:48] <Fujitsu> It'd be useful to be able to sort of expand a release in the list on /ubuntu/+source/<package> and see a changelog entry.
[11:48] <enyc> meep moop ;-)
[11:48] <LaserJock> hmm, that's an interesting idea
[11:49] <enyc> lp.net ... like sf.net ...
[11:49] <LaserJock> I generally find the +source pages to not be as helpful as they could be
[11:49] <geser> I also find the additional step of selecting "All" on the build status page for the source package annoying. The 5 archs don't take that much space that you would need filtering
[11:50] <Fujitsu> Should #90846 have the motu tag?
[11:50] <LaserJock> geser: where do you see that? can you give me an example?
[11:51] <geser> LaserJock: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/xulrunner/+builds
[11:51] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: give me a little bit to look these over
[11:52] <LaserJock> geser: oh, it defaults to currently building
[11:52] <geser> in most cases a package isn't "Currently building" when looking at that page
[11:52] <LaserJock> which will basically be almost always empty
[11:52] <Fujitsu> geser: Where's that linked from?
[11:52] <geser> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/xulrunner/ -> Show builds on the left pane
[11:53] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[11:53] <enyc> hrrm I wish there were not so many packages that depend on versions they dont need to...  there have bene many itmes I have extrcacted a package and changed the  debian/control  and rebuilt the bin....  whon needing to install  a newer binary of something... where no actual patching is needed to 'backport' such package....
[11:53] <Fujitsu> I was looking under the version
[11:53] <Fujitsu> The navigation in these parts is really bad.
[11:53] <geser> I always need to switch to "All states" to get the info I need
[11:54] <LaserJock> geser: do you know of a bug report on that?
[11:55] <Fujitsu> geser: You could always use the builds portlet on the <package>/<version>
[11:56] <LaserJock> that's quite a bit more clicking if you just want the latest build I think
[11:56] <Fujitsu> Not really.
[11:56] <Fujitsu> In fact, it's fewer.
[11:56] <jdong> enyc: usually those version numbers were put there to force a build in feisty against a newer library
[11:56] <Fujitsu> Go the the package page, click on version. Done.
[11:56] <Fujitsu> (and click on the portlet title if you haven't got the Greasemonkey script)
[11:57] <geser> LaserJock: no, I haven't filed one yet
[11:57] <jdong> enyc: for backports where that is the only modification, I think I can convince cjwatson/Mithrandir to upload a source-change backport
[11:57] <enyc> jdong: hrrm build-dep or  compiled dependancy ??
[11:57] <jdong> enyc: build-dep
[11:57] <LaserJock> geser: I can do it if you don't want to
[11:57] <enyc> jdong: right... but ive many times needed to change the binary-runtime-dependancies.....
[11:57] <LaserJock> geser: otherwise just ping me with the bug  number
[11:57] <jdong> enyc: like which packages?
[11:58] <enyc> jdong: e.g. to run an edgy binary package on dapper or whatever
[11:58] <Fujitsu> enyc: You're meant to rebuild them to do that. That's what backporting is.
[11:58] <jdong> you should not be running edgy binaries on anything but edgy
[11:58] <jdong> you must rebuild its source package on the intended distribution.
[11:58] <enyc> jdong: hrrm thats very often not necessay in my experience...
[11:58] <jdong> a binary runtime dependency is for real
[11:58] <geser> LaserJock: filing now
[11:59] <jdong> that's generated from scanning the binary.
[11:59] <Tonio_> siretart: ping ?
[11:59] <jdong> enyc: it's russian roulette when you do that. it may work, it may crash, nobody knows.
[11:59] <jdong> but it's not supported in any way, and you're on your own.
[11:59] <siretart> Tonio_: pong
[12:00] <enyc> jdong: that really depends if there is an ABI change or an actual requiremnet for newer lib or initscript-behaviour...
[12:00] <enyc> hangon ... ill try to find an example...
[12:01] <Tonio_> siretart: hi :) I'm pinging you concerning libxine
[12:01] <enyc> not done this in a while ;-)
[12:01] <jdong> enyc: for most packages there are subtle ABI changes that cause shlibdeps to identify a specific version.
[12:01] <Tonio_> siretart: there is a patch merged upstream for xcb support, which would fix our so old kaffeine crash with konqueror
[12:02] <Tonio_> siretart: patch is a bit big but has been widelly tested upstream, is that too late to consider adding this ?
[12:03] <enyc> jdong: kk... now herees what iirc is see often...
[12:03] <enyc> jdong: in 'prboom' feisty universe..      * [17] [dep]  [18] libc6 (>= 2.5-0ubuntu1)
[12:03] <Fujitsu> enyc: We have a new libc6. That's a fact of life.
[12:03] <enyc> jdong: normally looks to me like many packages seem to explicitly depends on the releveant distro's version of libc6.. not actualyl the version they need
[12:04] <TheMuso> back
[12:04] <Fujitsu> Running it on earlier version may work, but it may break horribly.
[12:04] <enyc> Fujitsu: sure... im just trying to understand where this comes from
[12:04] <enyc> Fujitsu: well fine... but this dep seems not to actually specify the version needed normally... only "what version is in that distro"
[12:04] <zorglu_> q. when doing a ./configure on ubuntu, is there a special --prefix to set, or to leave the default is fine ?
[12:05] <enyc> Fujitsu: ive newer understood why this situation is like this
[12:05] <LaserJock> zorglu_: is that when you are trying to create an Ubuntu package?
[12:05] <TheMuso> zorglu_: You read the packaging guide?
[12:05] <zorglu_> LaserJock: somehow yes, installing a lighttpd 1.5 from source via checkinstall
[12:06] <zorglu_> TheMuso: some time ago yes, do i remember it by heart, no :)
[12:06] <enyc> Fujitsu: i.e. if this program actually needs libc6 at least 2.1 of libc6... then the dep might specify that.. but this seems to have explicitly the 'latest in feisty' libc6 version..
[12:06] <LaserJock> zorglu_: if you are going to use zorglu_ then you don't need a special --prefix
[12:06] <enyc> Fujitsu: do you undershand?
[12:06] <LaserJock> zorglu_: sorry that 2nd zorglu_ should be checkinstall ;-)
[12:06] <zorglu_> LaserJock: ok thanks
[12:07] <enyc> Is this dep some kind of autogenerated choice somewhere that defaults to explicitly requiring that latest ver.?
[12:07] <Fujitsu> enyc: The problem is that it's built against the new version. There's nothing saying that libc6 in Edgy is forwards-compatible.
[12:07] <Tonio_> siretart: please forget this, looks like too late to change the seeds to get rid of kmplayer for kubuntu anyway.... we'll wait net dev cycle then :)
[12:07] <Tonio_> siretart: sorry for boring you with this
[12:07] <jdong_> enyc: build deps are generated by running shlibdeps as the last step of building the binary package
[12:08] <zorglu_> LaserJock: for what it worth, the lighttpd 1.4 available on edgy got a serious bug on accept-range :)
[12:08] <jdong_> enyc: the tool only  checks against the running system. it doesn't have a comprehensive ABI analyzer for every version of Ubuntu and every revision of every library
[12:08] <LaserJock> zorglu_: is the bug in Launchpad?
[12:08] <zorglu_> LaserJock: no idea, i can look
[12:08] <LaserJock> zorglu_: that would be excellent
[12:08] <zorglu_> LaserJock: but after i got 1.5 working, i spent the day on this :)
[12:08] <jdong_> enyc: there's no good way of knowing if the package is binary-compatible with any other versions than specified, and dpkg errs on side of caution.
[12:09] <enyc> jdong_: I see.. so you end up with "conservative but often unneedly-restrictive dependancies" as far as I can see..
[12:09] <enyc> jdong_: I see
[12:09] <jdong_> enyc: that's the best solution given the scenarios.
[12:09] <enyc> jdong_: yes i see
[12:09] <TheMuso> Its really not hard to build a package in a pbuilder for the distro release you want it for.
[12:10] <enyc> TheMuso: sure.. takes time though... but I can understand that point of view too ;-)
[12:10] <jdong_> enyc: and speaking as a veteran Gentoo user who has source-compiled his entire system for several years... there is no good gauge of compatibility.
[12:11] <jdong_> enyc: sometimes you get really weird behavior in an application, and the shlibdeps still "check out" but rebuilding fixes it.
[12:11] <jdong_> (stale package from a library upgrade)
[12:11] <TheMuso> I've seen slight upgrades to packages in gentoo that have required a reverse depends rebuild.
[12:11] <enyc> jdong_: bah! gentoo hassle.. i remember problems with rebuilding libs... then needing to rebuild things to keep them working... big hassle sometimes..
[12:11] <jdong_> TheMuso: and sometimes revdep-rebuild doesn't catch it either.
[12:12] <TheMuso> jdong_: Yeah.,
[12:12] <jdong_> in fact, those are the MOST painful -- where revdep-rebuild doesn't detect it
[12:12] <enyc> jdong_: seem to need to keep things uptodate often... which can cause problems... mistakes w/ etc-update...
[12:12] <jdong_> which shows a fundamental flaw in using shlibdeps literally to assess dependencies
[12:12] <enyc> jdong_: and then... problems if you dont kkep things uptodate
[12:13] <jdong_> enyc: aye, it's a "fun" experience but does teach a few lessons about binary compatibility, why rolling versions aren't always good, and so on.