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| terlmann | hey guys , thanks for the origin tab in synaptic. it is very useful. | 12:18 |
|---|---|---|
| jdong | how does synaptic do the origin magic, bTW | 12:19 |
| terlmann | ehe, about how hard is it to update breezy straight to feisty ? because I did it over the past 24 hours, and lucky me, I got it working ;-) | 12:21 |
| Fujitsu | terlmann: Probably not a good idea... But if it worked, you were rather lucky. | 12:22 |
| jdong | terlmann: ha, that sounds like something I would do! | 12:22 |
| jdong | and it does eventually work out | 12:22 |
| jdong | might take a few aspirins but it'll eventually force on :) | 12:22 |
| terlmann | multistep ;-) and I dared not try a reboot till I got a new kernel installed. it crapped out tones of errors first few times, but I did some red-neck hacking at things and got it working. | 12:23 |
| terlmann | just aptitude and apt | 12:23 |
| terlmann | had to do some dist-upgrade -f and some without the -f | 12:23 |
| jdong | that sounded like my edgy->feisty experience | 12:24 |
| === jdong ducks | ||
| _ion | :-) | 12:25 |
| terlmann | meh, I liked the old look in breezy. the new looks are kinda *fresh* , but the old looks were a classic. not to mention, my system is just old enough to do better without live when it is installing , the new merging into one disk - I thought, this stinks. | 12:26 |
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| cjwatson | breezy->feisty: you get to keep all the pieces, no matter how many it breaks into | 12:34 |
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| cjwatson | it's probably technically possible but ISTR some places where pre-dapper upgrade compatibility was intentionally discarded in the cause of simplification so I'm quite sure you'll have a fair bit of difficulty | 12:35 |
| === cjwatson -> bed | ||
| Fujitsu | Night cjwatson. | 12:36 |
| terlmann | well, for me, almost everthing had to be removed ,as during the course of time the packages had been renamed | 12:39 |
| terlmann | everything' | 12:39 |
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| Seveas | terlmann, breezy -> feisty will break, iirc on an lvm2 upgrade. So you btter know dpkg and apt very well | 12:53 |
| terlmann | it broke a fw times ;-) | 12:54 |
| terlmann | i fixed it | 12:54 |
| terlmann | hacking versions is my skill | 12:54 |
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| === terlmann is teh uber-resolver | ||
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| terlmann | hey guys , an extreemly technical question... considering the fact I could install the whole set of tools for using rpm, could , I , like, install portage or pacman into ubuntu , and use them for things like source compiles ? | 01:03 |
| terlmann | and I know about apt-src | 01:03 |
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| Seveas | terlmann, this channel is only for development of ubuntu | 01:06 |
| Fujitsu | Not for doing completely stupid things on Ubuntu. | 01:06 |
| Seveas | completely stupid things often make nice experiments | 01:07 |
| === jdong_ is now known as jdong | ||
| _ion | But better do them in a virtual machine or a box you don't actually need to use. :-) | 01:07 |
| terlmann | well, anyway , no matter how dumb it sounds, I was serious | 01:07 |
| jdong | "Stupid Ubuntu Tricks with jdong" -- an hour long podcast of me doing crackpot things with Ubuntu? | 01:07 |
| Seveas | jdong, you could fill days... | 01:08 |
| Seveas | :) | 01:08 |
| jdong | hehe :) | 01:08 |
| terlmann | all-in-one swiss linux system.. | 01:08 |
| _ion | jdong: I would listen to that. :-) | 01:08 |
| === jdong should blog his ntfs-3g system some day :) | ||
| Amaranth | terlmann: the databases won't be the same | 01:08 |
| Amaranth | package databases | 01:08 |
| terlmann | jdong : did you make the Christmas edition ? | 01:08 |
| terlmann | yea | 01:08 |
| terlmann | I know | 01:08 |
| terlmann | I would have to handle that | 01:08 |
| terlmann | on paper | 01:08 |
| jdong | terlmann: no, I don't usually publish such things :) | 01:08 |
| terlmann | ehehe | 01:09 |
| jdong | I figure that Ubuntu devs would feel their hearts momentarily skip beats every time I did :) | 01:09 |
| terlmann | haha! | 01:09 |
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| terlmann | evill | 01:09 |
| terlmann | Microsoft Visual COBOL - heard it before , passing it on... | 01:10 |
| === Fujitsu feels dizzy. | ||
| terlmann | Microsoft Ruby.NET | 01:12 |
| jdong | that's actually coming. | 01:12 |
| terlmann | oh noes! | 01:12 |
| jdong | apparently MS is funding some OSS attempt to implement ruby on.NET | 01:12 |
| jdong | IronRuby? | 01:12 |
| jdong | maybe RustyRuby or something | 01:12 |
| === jdong ducks | ||
| Seveas | low.. :) | 01:13 |
| terlmann | Microsoft Visual python.net | 01:13 |
| Fujitsu | terlmann: That's IronPython. | 01:13 |
| jdong | ahem, IronPython? | 01:13 |
| === jdong wonders if writing up a MIR for IronPython would be a joke or plain wrong :) | ||
| Fujitsu | jdong: You wouldn't survive for more than 30 seconds, I don't think. | 01:14 |
| terlmann | ehe | 01:14 |
| terlmann | ahaha | 01:14 |
| jdong | :) | 01:14 |
| jdong | it's... a product from Microsoft, which means it's high quality right? | 01:14 |
| jdong | besides, this GNU thing that popped up overnight can't run a computer from ground up without the windows | 01:14 |
| Fujitsu | jdong: Of course not! We need Windows to boot it. | 01:15 |
| jdong | Fujitsu: yeah, all those Windows critical services. | 01:15 |
| terlmann | Microsoft Linux - the most secure in the world. best looking due to microsoft compiz and microsoft invented aiglx. | 01:16 |
| Seveas | terlmann, MS linux == suse | 01:17 |
| terlmann | we HAVE to copywright that NOW - before they do - then they can never make *microsoft linux* without changing the name. | 01:17 |
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| jdong | xcb - Pigeon holes for your cut and paste selections | 01:18 |
| jdong | hmm. | 01:18 |
| Seveas | linux is a trademark | 01:18 |
| jdong | never thought I could find pigeons in the apt db | 01:18 |
| terlmann | em , not really , novell linux has always sucked- and this is the latest publicity stunt to keep the relic alive - it wont last long. | 01:18 |
| terlmann | remember the distrowatch *climb* and the impressive media coverage / | 01:19 |
| terlmann | ? | 01:19 |
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| jdong | gah, I'm so ashamed of myself... | 01:24 |
| === jdong is trying to construct random dirty search regexes that match a package | ||
| jdong | I think I need a life. | 01:24 |
| jcmasters_hm | It's St. Patrick's day. Go drink beer! | 01:25 |
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| jdong | it is? | 01:25 |
| jdong | oh it is. | 01:25 |
| jcmasters_hm | jdong: and you're probably down the street from me! :P | 01:25 |
| jdong | that sounds like more fun than trying to build dirty phrases out of 'pigeon holes' | 01:25 |
| jcmasters_hm | Plenty of stuff going on in Harvard Sq. when I looked earlier. | 01:26 |
| jdong | cool | 01:26 |
| jcmasters_hm | I'm working, but I might head over to one of the bars here in Central later. | 01:26 |
| jdong | ha, I still got 3 years to go :) | 01:27 |
| jcmasters_hm | Oh yeah, silly US drinking laws :-) | 01:30 |
| jcmasters_hm | That's why I didn't come here until I was 21. | 01:30 |
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| jdong | lucky :P | 01:31 |
| _ion | Bars are annoying. | 01:31 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: mesa> rejecting since you're not basing it on the version in the queue already. | 01:31 |
| === jdong mutters "anti-social" | ||
| Mithrandir | Riddell: ugh, ok. | 01:32 |
| terlmann | I wish I could drink. I would shoot a senator if it helped me. All I wanted was a glass of wine, at a friends wedding , already voted and had the farking stupid military paper mailed me, and still no booze. | 01:33 |
| jcmasters_hm | terlmann: Well, I can drink but not vote. Though I pay US taxes...and as a Brit, I must protest against taxation without representation! :P | 01:36 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: please do upload a new one, though. | 01:37 |
| jcmasters_hm | Somehow, I became "old". I'm 26 this year. | 01:37 |
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| bhale | taxation without representation was a scam, if the british parliment had given the americans fair representation by population they would have had no effective power | 01:48 |
| jcmasters_hm | bhale: obviously | 01:53 |
| bhale | thats why we had to throw your ass out. | 01:54 |
| jcmasters_hm | Don't have to tell me. I was down in Boston Harbor on December 16 pouring tea into the water. | 01:54 |
| Seveas | Mithrandir, did you find some time to look at the usplash themes or should I poke someone else? | 01:54 |
| jcmasters_hm | Well, I had an American do that while I watched :P | 01:54 |
| Mithrandir | Seveas: I thought I uploaded it, but please poke somebody else since I'm about to go to sleep. | 01:54 |
| jcmasters_hm | (December 16 1773, Boston Tea Party) | 01:54 |
| Mithrandir | Seveas: hm, actually, it ended up being just dark blue still | 01:54 |
| Mithrandir | iirc | 01:54 |
| Mithrandir | jcmasters_hm: you're wildly offtopic for this channel, please go to #ubuntu-offtopic or something. | 01:55 |
| Seveas | Mithrandir, nothing was uploaded, only the kubuntu theme by riddell | 01:55 |
| Seveas | Mithrandir, and the theme really is fixed, I tested it :) | 01:55 |
| Mithrandir | Seveas: ok. :-) | 01:56 |
| Seveas | but I'll poke $someoneelse tomorrow, bedtime here as well | 01:56 |
| Mithrandir | thanks. | 01:57 |
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| jdong | are there any technical reasons why l-r-m is not split out? | 02:01 |
| jdong | a more modular approach would make it easier for 3rd parties to package kernel modules for Ubuntu | 02:01 |
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| Mithrandir | jdong: it's more work if it's split out | 02:02 |
| bhale | hi Mithrandir | 02:02 |
| jdong | hmm I see. | 02:02 |
| Mithrandir | hiya bhale | 02:02 |
| sladen | Mithrandir: can you poke 'mesa' through for the FTBFS change | 02:11 |
| Mithrandir | sladen: I did so a fair bit of time ago | 02:12 |
| sladen | Mithrandir: strange, do you know why it hasn't been built https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/6.5.2-3ubuntu3 | 02:14 |
| sladen | Mithrandir: showing "Published", but "No builds recorded." | 02:15 |
| Mithrandir | yes, the buildd sequencer hasn't run yet; it's published in this publisher run. | 02:18 |
| sladen | okay, I misread the dates, it was cleared about an hour ago, but is just sat in the queue awaiting its turn. yes, nod | 02:18 |
| sladen | makes sense | 02:19 |
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| sladen | meh. | 03:01 |
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| BenC | Mithrandir: Ok, didn't know there was one in the queue | 05:09 |
| BenC | Mithrandir: is the new version in the archive, or is there some place I can get it? | 05:09 |
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| sladen | BenC: I just did a mesa upload just now. Do you have a debdiff handy and I'll combine it | 06:06 |
| jdong | ah, that sounds so wonder twin :) | 06:11 |
| jdong | debdiffs - UNITE | 06:11 |
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| Mithrandir | BenC: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/feisty/unapproved has the NEW queue, but it should be published now so you can get it using apt-get | 10:53 |
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| TheMuso | c | 12:13 |
| Hobbsee | d | 12:13 |
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| kukost | hi | 01:42 |
| kukost | I've just got a question/suggestion for the ubuntu developers | 01:43 |
| kukost | how about making a "ubuntu tutorial" the first time people run it? it can make the change a lot more easy for people trying ubuntu and linux for the first time | 01:44 |
| Hobbsee | kukost: how about you write one? | 01:44 |
| mdke | kukost: did you try System->Help? | 01:45 |
| Hobbsee | kukost: ie, there are lots of suggestions, many of which are good, and limited resources. | 01:45 |
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| giftnudel | ha, my dad was on the cebit and brought me some ubuntu sticker, yes! | 02:23 |
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| malverian | mjg59: ping | 02:45 |
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| jwendell | how can i run 'automake' from debian/rules? | 03:04 |
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| mikerob1 | Would a like weight online installer be a good summer of code project? | 03:36 |
| sn0 | isn't there one already mikerob1 , the windows based installer? | 03:37 |
| mikerob1 | I wouldn't know, that would be useless to me | 03:37 |
| sn0 | i believe the summer of code applications has paused for the summer | 03:38 |
| mikerob1 | ??? | 03:38 |
| mikerob1 | The app deadline is the 24th | 03:38 |
| sn0 | "http://code.google.com/soc/" at least on google | 03:39 |
| sn0 | err | 03:39 |
| sn0 | We are no longer accepting applications from open source organizations. even :) | 03:39 |
| mikerob1 | Ubuntu has already been accepted | 03:39 |
| dsas | sn0: that deadline was for organisations, there's another deadline for students. | 03:40 |
| mikerob1 | sn0 don't worry about the deadline an answer my question | 03:40 |
| mikerob1 | would it be a good project? | 03:40 |
| sn0 | oh i see | 03:40 |
| mikerob1 | I hate having to install 200mb of outdated packages | 03:42 |
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| rouzic | Hi all | 03:43 |
| mikerob1 | hi | 03:43 |
| sn0 | im not sure of a network / small iso image for installs, i know on debian there exists such a thing | 03:43 |
| rouzic | I have a problem with a kernel 2.6.20-10 and 2.6.20-11 in a MacBook | 03:43 |
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| j1mc | rouzic, i think there's already a bug for that: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/91940 | 03:46 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 91940 in linux-source-2.6.20 "2.6.20-10 regression from 2.6.20-9, Macbook Pro no longer boots" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 03:46 |
| rouzic | j1mc: yes, that bug :) | 03:47 |
| j1mc | rouzic, that bug is being tracked for the beta, so hopefully it will be fixed soon. | 03:47 |
| rouzic | oks, thanks j1mc | 03:47 |
| j1mc | rouzic, keep an eye on the status of that bug report. if it gets fixed, be sure to test the fix. | 03:48 |
| rouzic | This it is the mistake that me appears to my | 03:49 |
| mikerob1 | Are there any documents describing how the installer ISO's are built? | 03:49 |
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| dsas | mikerob1: if there are it'll be on wiki.ubuntu.com | 03:54 |
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| mikerob1 | I've usually only found broken links on the wiki | 03:58 |
| Lathiat | i believe they are build with some scripts that you can't actually get | 04:04 |
| Lathiat | but i could be wrong, please check that :) | 04:04 |
| mikerob1 | Are they some kind of secret? | 04:05 |
| dsas | mikerob1: these are the people that run the process: https://beta.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+members | 04:07 |
| dsas | uhm, remove the beta. from that url. | 04:07 |
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| BenC | Mithrandir: mesa_6.5.2-3ubuntu5 uploaded, based on -3ubuntu4build1 | 07:00 |
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with feisty; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Main frozen for beta | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Mithrandir at Thu Mar 15 12:21:54 2007 | ||
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| cjwatson | mdz: your seed commit (r913) that restored gnome-btdownload appears to have (accidentally?) reverted some of the Recommends changes you made just beforehand. Could you check that that was what you meant to do? | 09:34 |
| LaserJock | how's/act | 09:35 |
| LaserJock | bah | 09:35 |
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| sladen | BenC: that last SMP cpufreq issue is probably that the kernel should remember the value before and after suspend/resume (it's remembering it for the first CPU, but not subsequent ones) | 10:36 |
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| sladen | BenC: I can have acpi-support or some such actively save the state during suspend/resume (though I'm not sure it's quite the right solution) | 10:38 |
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| BenC | sladen: Can you confirm that it is actually doing that for the first cpu? | 10:45 |
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| sladen | BenC: I don't have a SMP laptop, but the first comment in the bugreport shows before/after for cpu0 and cpu1. cpu0 remains 'ondemand', and cpu1 reverts to 'performance' | 10:48 |
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| BenC | sladen: Just wondering if userspace is setting ondemand for cpu0 or kernel is actually saving that state | 10:49 |
| sladen | BenC: powernowd isn't a daemon anymore, just an init.d script that load modules and echo's 'ondemand' | 10:49 |
| sladen | BenC: so the initscript is only run on the initial bootup | 10:49 |
| BenC | ah, so likely userspace | 10:49 |
| sladen | BenC: my hunch is that the kernel [the cpufreq driver in question?] is making the effort to do the save; but the save code was likely written before SMP laptop cpus | 10:50 |
| BenC | well the cpufreq and suspend/resume is not laptop specific, so let's leave that part out of the equation :) | 10:51 |
| BenC | most likely you are correct though | 10:51 |
| === sladen goes to apt-get the source | ||
| BenC | sladen: I just confirmed that problem on my core2duo workstation | 10:54 |
| BenC | cpu1 reverted to performance | 10:54 |
| BenC | cpu0 is at ondemand | 10:54 |
| jdong | BenC: what's up with P965/JMicron in Feisty? | 10:56 |
| jdong | BenC: hearing from multiple users that system hangs on boot, detecting IDE drives | 10:57 |
| sladen | BenC: based on the contents of cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors if you try pasting something else in we can 110% sure (something that isn't ondemand, performance or userspace) | 10:57 |
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| BenC | sladen: jmicron should be fixed in -12 | 11:20 |
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| BenC | sladen: Set it to conservative, and it still went back to performance | 11:22 |
| jdong | BenC: ok, thanks for the info :) | 11:23 |
| jdong | BenC: p.s. you're right iwlwifi is glitchy :D | 11:23 |
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| BenC | jdong: Ah, wrong person, but good you were paying attention :) | 11:24 |
| jdong | :) | 11:24 |
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| BenC | /* only handle each CPU group once */ | 11:27 |
| BenC | if (unlikely(cpu_policy->cpu != cpu)) { | 11:27 |
| BenC | cpufreq_cpu_put(cpu_policy); | 11:27 |
| BenC | return 0; | 11:27 |
| BenC | } | 11:27 |
| BenC | sladen: Wonder if that has something to do with it. That's in the suspend callback | 11:27 |
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| delrey | or should it be mypackage_0-ubuntu0.0.0_i386.deb ? | 11:45 |
| delrey | is mypackage_0-ubuntu0.0.0.deb appropriately named? | 11:45 |
| lifeless | delrey: I think you want #ubuntu-motu :) | 11:45 |
| delrey | what's the difference between the channels (i asked there before coming here, which is why the questions are out of order) | 11:46 |
| lifeless | ubuntu-devel is for the core development, of ubuntu-main, ubuntu-motu is for prospective developers like yourself, and for development of universe. | 11:47 |
| delrey | oh | 11:47 |
| delrey | gotcha, so quick question, why wouldn't you guys have this place password protected or something or invite only? | 11:47 |
| delrey | seeing as though it has to do with core developers, shouldn't only the leetest of ubuntu devs get the honor of being here? | 11:47 |
| BenC | delrey: it's open, it's just we have a specific topic for this channel | 11:48 |
| BenC | just like you don't go to #netbsd to ask a Win98 question | 11:48 |
| lifeless | delrey: you're welcome to stay | 11:48 |
| delrey | well, i'd be pretty useless in this channel | 11:48 |
| lifeless | delrey: its just that there is a focus to the discussions here, thats all. | 11:48 |
| BenC | delrey: The topic of the channel describes what is on-topic | 11:48 |
| lifeless | BenC: perhaps we could add main to that though. | 11:49 |
| BenC | and also points to #ubuntu-motu for your particular interest :) | 11:49 |
| BenC | lifeless: It just says "for getting involved in development" | 11:49 |
| lifeless | yeh | 11:50 |
| lifeless | I can see that ;) | 11:50 |
| delrey | I'm thinking of getting involved in the Google Summer of Code for Ubuntu, especially for better integration of a source code compilation mechanism - something like emerge on Gentoo to replace apt-get. Is that too ambitious? | 11:51 |
| jdong | delrey: that's what apt-build does :) | 11:51 |
| delrey | Yeargh, I'll look into that. | 11:51 |
| jdong | delrey: and I don't think what you're trying to accomplish is too ambitious, but getting that to fit in with the Debian/Ubuntu community will be. | 11:51 |
| jdong | delrey: the technology/mechanisms for simulating Portage on Ubuntu/Debian is well available :) | 11:52 |
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| delrey | Darn, all the good ideas are taken :'( | 11:54 |
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| jdong | delrey: I got it! Make an automatic codec installer! | 11:54 |
| === jdong hides | ||
| BenC | delrey: The Device Driver Manager spec is something I'm proposing for SoC, if you are interested | 11:56 |
| delrey | Well, I'm going into EECS, so I'm looking for something more specifically related to that this summer (assuming I even get accepted). But if the emerge thing is taken, there's not much interest for me in other projects. The closest would possibly be getting drivers written for X that would help all distributinos that use X, but that's about it. I don't mean to be a jerk, but it's just not my thing. | 11:58 |
| lifeless | well | 11:58 |
| lifeless | apt-build is not really that close to emerge | 11:58 |
| lifeless | it only builds completely predefined things | 11:58 |
| jdong | lifeless: meh make special soruce packages that just fetch the source tarballs during build :) | 11:59 |
| jdong | lifeless: probably violates every policy but... oh well :D | 11:59 |
| lifeless | jdong: that doesn't address the other 16K packages | 11:59 |
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| jdong | lifeless: heh no it doesn't.... a uupdate script would do that though | 12:02 |
| jdong | for the packages that build without dropping patches | 12:02 |
| jdong | lifeless: I've considered such an extension onto prevu but decided every developer would probably burn my house down :D | 12:03 |
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| Burgundavia | delrey: to be brutally honest, I can think of about a dozen projects that might better suit Ubuntu than a source package builder | 12:08 |
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