[12:18] <terlmann> hey guys , thanks for the origin tab in synaptic. it is very useful.
[12:19] <jdong> how does synaptic do the origin magic, bTW
[12:21] <terlmann> ehe, about how hard is it to update breezy straight to feisty ? because I did it over the past 24 hours, and lucky me, I got it working ;-)
[12:22] <Fujitsu> terlmann: Probably not a good idea... But if it worked, you were rather lucky.
[12:22] <jdong> terlmann: ha, that sounds like something I would do!
[12:22] <jdong> and it does eventually work out
[12:22] <jdong> might take a few aspirins but it'll eventually force on :)
[12:23] <terlmann> multistep ;-) and I dared not try a reboot till I got a new kernel installed. it crapped out tones of errors first few times, but I did some red-neck hacking at things and got it working.
[12:23] <terlmann> just aptitude and apt
[12:23] <terlmann> had to do some dist-upgrade -f and some without the -f 
[12:24] <jdong> that sounded like my edgy->feisty experience
[12:25] <_ion> :-)
[12:26] <terlmann> meh, I liked the old look in breezy. the new looks are kinda *fresh* , but the old looks were a classic. not to mention, my system is just old enough to do better without live when it is installing , the new merging into one disk - I thought, this stinks.
[12:34] <cjwatson> breezy->feisty: you get to keep all the pieces, no matter how many it breaks into
[12:35] <cjwatson> it's probably technically possible but ISTR some places where pre-dapper upgrade compatibility was intentionally discarded in the cause of simplification so I'm quite sure you'll have a fair bit of difficulty
[12:36] <Fujitsu> Night cjwatson.
[12:39] <terlmann> well, for me, almost everthing had to be removed ,as during the course of time the packages had been renamed
[12:39] <terlmann> everything'
[12:53] <Seveas> terlmann, breezy -> feisty will break, iirc on an lvm2 upgrade. So you btter know dpkg and apt very well
[12:54] <terlmann> it broke a fw times ;-)
[12:54] <terlmann> i fixed it
[12:54] <terlmann> hacking versions is my skill
[01:03] <terlmann> hey guys , an extreemly technical question... considering the fact I could install the whole set of tools for using rpm, could , I , like, install portage or pacman into ubuntu , and use them for things like source compiles ?
[01:03] <terlmann> and I know about apt-src
[01:06] <Seveas> terlmann, this channel is only for development of ubuntu
[01:06] <Fujitsu> Not for doing completely stupid things on Ubuntu.
[01:07] <Seveas> completely stupid things often make nice experiments
[01:07] <_ion> But better do them in a virtual machine or a box you don't actually need to use. :-)
[01:07] <terlmann> well, anyway , no matter how dumb it sounds, I was serious
[01:07] <jdong> "Stupid Ubuntu Tricks with jdong" -- an hour long podcast of me doing crackpot things with Ubuntu?
[01:08] <Seveas> jdong, you could fill days...
[01:08] <Seveas> :)
[01:08] <jdong> hehe :)
[01:08] <terlmann> all-in-one swiss linux  system..
[01:08] <_ion> jdong: I would listen to that. :-)
[01:08] <Amaranth> terlmann: the databases won't be the same
[01:08] <Amaranth> package databases
[01:08] <terlmann> jdong : did you make the Christmas edition ?
[01:08] <terlmann> yea
[01:08] <terlmann> I know
[01:08] <terlmann> I would have to handle that
[01:08] <terlmann> on paper
[01:08] <jdong> terlmann: no, I don't usually publish such things :)
[01:09] <terlmann> ehehe
[01:09] <jdong> I figure that Ubuntu devs would feel their hearts momentarily skip beats every time I did :)
[01:09] <terlmann> haha!
[01:09] <terlmann> evill
[01:10] <terlmann> Microsoft Visual COBOL - heard it before , passing it on...
[01:12] <terlmann> Microsoft Ruby.NET
[01:12] <jdong> that's actually coming.
[01:12] <terlmann> oh noes!
[01:12] <jdong> apparently MS is funding some OSS attempt to implement ruby on.NET
[01:12] <jdong> IronRuby?
[01:12] <jdong> maybe RustyRuby or something
[01:13] <Seveas> low.. :)
[01:13] <terlmann> Microsoft Visual python.net
[01:13] <Fujitsu> terlmann: That's IronPython.
[01:13] <jdong> ahem, IronPython?
[01:14] <Fujitsu> jdong: You wouldn't survive for more than 30 seconds, I don't think.
[01:14] <terlmann> ehe
[01:14] <terlmann> ahaha
[01:14] <jdong> :)
[01:14] <jdong> it's... a product from Microsoft, which means it's high quality right?
[01:14] <jdong> besides, this GNU thing that popped up overnight can't run a computer from ground up without the windows
[01:15] <Fujitsu> jdong: Of course not! We need Windows to boot it.
[01:15] <jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, all those Windows critical services.
[01:16] <terlmann> Microsoft Linux - the most secure in the world. best looking due to microsoft compiz and microsoft invented aiglx.
[01:17] <Seveas> terlmann, MS linux == suse
[01:17] <terlmann> we HAVE to copywright that NOW - before they do - then they can never make *microsoft linux* without changing the name.
[01:18] <jdong>  xcb        - Pigeon holes for your cut and paste selections
[01:18] <jdong> hmm.
[01:18] <Seveas> linux is a trademark
[01:18] <jdong> never thought I could find pigeons in the apt db
[01:18] <terlmann> em , not really , novell linux has always sucked- and this is the latest publicity stunt to keep the relic alive - it wont last long.
[01:19] <terlmann> remember the distrowatch *climb* and the impressive media coverage /
[01:19] <terlmann> ?
[01:24] <jdong> gah, I'm so ashamed of myself...
[01:24] <jdong> I think I need a life.
[01:25] <jcmasters_hm> It's St. Patrick's day. Go drink beer!
[01:25] <jdong> it is?
[01:25] <jdong> oh it is.
[01:25] <jcmasters_hm> jdong: and you're probably down the street from me! :P
[01:25] <jdong> that sounds like more fun than trying to build dirty phrases out of 'pigeon holes'
[01:26] <jcmasters_hm> Plenty of stuff going on in Harvard Sq. when I looked earlier.
[01:26] <jdong> cool
[01:26] <jcmasters_hm> I'm working, but I might head over to one of the bars here in Central later.
[01:27] <jdong> ha, I still got 3 years to go :)
[01:30] <jcmasters_hm> Oh yeah, silly US drinking laws :-)
[01:30] <jcmasters_hm> That's why I didn't come here until I was 21.
[01:31] <jdong> lucky :P
[01:31] <_ion> Bars are annoying.
[01:31] <Mithrandir> BenC: mesa> rejecting since you're not basing it on the version in the queue already.
[01:32] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ugh, ok.
[01:33] <terlmann> I wish I could drink. I would shoot a senator if it helped me. All I wanted was a glass of wine, at a friends wedding , already voted and had the farking stupid military paper mailed me, and still no booze.
[01:36] <jcmasters_hm> terlmann: Well, I can drink but not vote. Though I pay US taxes...and as a Brit, I must protest against taxation without representation! :P
[01:37] <Mithrandir> BenC: please do upload a new one, though.
[01:37] <jcmasters_hm> Somehow, I became "old". I'm 26 this year.
[01:48] <bhale> taxation without representation was a scam, if the british parliment had given the americans fair representation by population they would have had no effective power
[01:53] <jcmasters_hm> bhale: obviously
[01:54] <bhale> thats why we had to throw your ass out.
[01:54] <jcmasters_hm> Don't have to tell me. I was down in Boston Harbor on December 16 pouring tea into the water.
[01:54] <Seveas> Mithrandir, did you find some time to look at the usplash themes or should I poke someone else?
[01:54] <jcmasters_hm> Well, I had an American do that while I watched :P
[01:54] <Mithrandir> Seveas: I thought I uploaded it, but please poke somebody else since I'm about to go to sleep.
[01:54] <jcmasters_hm> (December 16 1773, Boston Tea Party)
[01:54] <Mithrandir> Seveas: hm, actually, it ended up being just dark blue still
[01:54] <Mithrandir> iirc
[01:55] <Mithrandir> jcmasters_hm: you're wildly offtopic for this channel, please go to #ubuntu-offtopic or something.
[01:55] <Seveas> Mithrandir, nothing was uploaded, only the kubuntu theme by riddell
[01:55] <Seveas> Mithrandir, and the theme really is fixed, I tested it :)
[01:56] <Mithrandir> Seveas: ok. :-)
[01:56] <Seveas> but I'll poke $someoneelse tomorrow, bedtime here as well
[01:57] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[02:01] <jdong> are there any technical reasons why l-r-m is not split out?
[02:01] <jdong> a more modular approach would make it easier for 3rd parties to package kernel modules for Ubuntu
[02:02] <Mithrandir> jdong: it's more work if it's split out
[02:02] <bhale> hi Mithrandir 
[02:02] <jdong> hmm I see.
[02:02] <Mithrandir> hiya bhale 
[02:11] <sladen> Mithrandir: can you poke 'mesa' through for the FTBFS change
[02:12] <Mithrandir> sladen: I did so a fair bit of time ago
[02:14] <sladen> Mithrandir: strange, do you know why it hasn't been built https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/6.5.2-3ubuntu3
[02:15] <sladen> Mithrandir: showing "Published", but "No builds recorded."
[02:18] <Mithrandir> yes, the buildd sequencer hasn't run yet; it's published in this publisher run.
[02:18] <sladen> okay, I misread the dates, it was cleared about an hour ago, but is just sat in the queue awaiting its turn.   yes, nod
[02:19] <sladen> makes sense
[03:01] <sladen> meh.
[05:09] <BenC> Mithrandir: Ok, didn't know there was one in the queue
[05:09] <BenC> Mithrandir: is the new version in the archive, or is there some place I can get it?
[06:06] <sladen> BenC: I just did a mesa upload just now.  Do you have a debdiff handy and I'll combine it
[06:11] <jdong> ah, that sounds so wonder twin :)
[06:11] <jdong> debdiffs - UNITE
[10:53] <Mithrandir> BenC: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/feisty/unapproved has the NEW queue, but it should be published now so you can get it using apt-get
[12:13] <TheMuso> c
[12:13] <Hobbsee> d
[01:42] <kukost> hi
[01:43] <kukost> I've just got a question/suggestion for the ubuntu developers
[01:44] <kukost> how about making a "ubuntu tutorial" the first time people run it? it can make the change a lot more easy for people trying ubuntu and linux for the first time
[01:44] <Hobbsee> kukost: how about you write one?
[01:45] <mdke> kukost: did you try System->Help?
[01:45] <Hobbsee> kukost: ie, there are lots of suggestions, many of which are good, and limited resources.
[02:23] <giftnudel> ha, my dad was on the cebit and brought me some ubuntu sticker, yes!
[02:45] <malverian> mjg59: ping
[03:04] <jwendell> how can i run 'automake' from debian/rules?
[03:36] <mikerob1> Would a like weight online installer be a good summer of code project?
[03:37] <sn0> isn't there one already mikerob1 , the windows based installer?
[03:37] <mikerob1> I wouldn't know, that would be useless to me
[03:38] <sn0> i believe the summer of code applications has paused for the summer
[03:38] <mikerob1> ???
[03:38] <mikerob1> The app deadline is the 24th
[03:39] <sn0> "http://code.google.com/soc/" at least on google
[03:39] <sn0> err
[03:39] <sn0> We are no longer accepting applications from open source organizations. even :)
[03:39] <mikerob1> Ubuntu has already been accepted
[03:40] <dsas> sn0: that deadline was for organisations, there's another deadline for students.
[03:40] <mikerob1> sn0 don't worry about the deadline an answer my question
[03:40] <mikerob1> would it be a good project?
[03:40] <sn0> oh i see
[03:42] <mikerob1> I hate having to install 200mb of outdated packages
[03:43] <rouzic> Hi all
[03:43] <mikerob1> hi
[03:43] <sn0> im not sure of a network / small iso image for installs, i know on debian there exists such a thing
[03:43] <rouzic> I have a problem with a kernel 2.6.20-10 and 2.6.20-11 in a MacBook
[03:46] <j1mc> rouzic, i think there's already a bug for that: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/91940
[03:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91940 in linux-source-2.6.20 "2.6.20-10 regression from 2.6.20-9, Macbook Pro no longer boots" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[03:47] <rouzic> j1mc: yes, that bug :)
[03:47] <j1mc> rouzic, that bug is being tracked for the beta, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.
[03:47] <rouzic> oks, thanks j1mc
[03:48] <j1mc> rouzic, keep an eye on the status of that bug report.  if it gets fixed, be sure to test the fix.
[03:49] <rouzic> This it is the mistake that me appears to my
[03:49] <mikerob1> Are there any documents describing how the installer ISO's are built?
[03:54] <dsas> mikerob1: if there are it'll be on wiki.ubuntu.com
[03:58] <mikerob1> I've usually only found broken links on the wiki
[04:04] <Lathiat> i believe they are build with some scripts that you can't actually get
[04:04] <Lathiat> but i could be wrong, please check that :)
[04:05] <mikerob1> Are they some kind of secret?
[04:07] <dsas> mikerob1: these are the people that run the process: https://beta.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+members
[04:07] <dsas> uhm, remove the beta. from that url.
[07:00] <BenC> Mithrandir: mesa_6.5.2-3ubuntu5 uploaded, based on -3ubuntu4build1
[09:34] <cjwatson> mdz: your seed commit (r913) that restored gnome-btdownload appears to have (accidentally?) reverted some of the Recommends changes you made just beforehand. Could you check that that was what you meant to do?
[09:35] <LaserJock> how's/act
[09:35] <LaserJock> bah
[10:36] <sladen> BenC: that last SMP cpufreq issue is probably that the kernel should remember the value before and after suspend/resume  (it's remembering it for the first CPU, but not subsequent ones)
[10:38] <sladen> BenC: I can have acpi-support or some such actively save the state during suspend/resume  (though I'm not sure it's quite the right solution)
[10:45] <BenC> sladen: Can you confirm that it is actually doing that for the first cpu?
[10:48] <sladen> BenC: I don't have a SMP laptop, but the first comment in the bugreport shows before/after for cpu0 and cpu1.  cpu0 remains 'ondemand', and cpu1 reverts to 'performance'
[10:49] <BenC> sladen: Just wondering if userspace is setting ondemand for cpu0 or kernel is actually saving that state
[10:49] <sladen> BenC: powernowd isn't a daemon anymore, just an init.d script that load modules and echo's 'ondemand'
[10:49] <sladen> BenC: so the initscript is only run on the initial bootup
[10:49] <BenC> ah, so likely userspace
[10:50] <sladen> BenC: my hunch is that the kernel [the cpufreq driver in question?]  is making the effort to do the save;  but the save code was likely written before SMP laptop cpus
[10:51] <BenC> well the cpufreq and suspend/resume is not laptop specific, so let's leave that part out of the equation :)
[10:51] <BenC> most likely you are correct though
[10:54] <BenC> sladen: I just confirmed that problem on my core2duo workstation
[10:54] <BenC> cpu1 reverted to performance
[10:54] <BenC> cpu0 is at ondemand
[10:56] <jdong> BenC: what's up with P965/JMicron in Feisty?
[10:57] <jdong> BenC: hearing from multiple users that system hangs on boot, detecting IDE drives
[10:57] <sladen> BenC: based on the contents of   cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors   if you try pasting something else in we can 110% sure  (something that isn't ondemand, performance or userspace)
[11:20] <BenC> sladen: jmicron should be fixed in -12
[11:22] <BenC> sladen: Set it to conservative, and it still went back to performance
[11:23] <jdong> BenC: ok, thanks for the info :)
[11:23] <jdong> BenC: p.s. you're right iwlwifi is glitchy :D
[11:24] <BenC> jdong: Ah, wrong person, but good you were paying attention :)
[11:24] <jdong> :)
[11:27] <BenC>         /* only handle each CPU group once */
[11:27] <BenC>         if (unlikely(cpu_policy->cpu != cpu)) {
[11:27] <BenC>                 cpufreq_cpu_put(cpu_policy);
[11:27] <BenC>                 return 0;
[11:27] <BenC>         }
[11:27] <BenC> sladen: Wonder if that has something to do with it. That's in the suspend callback
[11:45] <delrey> or should it be mypackage_0-ubuntu0.0.0_i386.deb ?
[11:45] <delrey> is mypackage_0-ubuntu0.0.0.deb appropriately named?
[11:45] <lifeless> delrey: I think you want #ubuntu-motu :)
[11:46] <delrey> what's the difference between the channels (i asked there before coming here, which is why the questions are out of order)
[11:47] <lifeless> ubuntu-devel is for the core development, of ubuntu-main, ubuntu-motu is for prospective developers like yourself, and for development of universe.
[11:47] <delrey> oh
[11:47] <delrey> gotcha, so quick question, why wouldn't you guys have this place password protected or something or invite only?
[11:47] <delrey> seeing as though it has to do with core developers, shouldn't only the leetest of ubuntu devs get the honor of being here?
[11:48] <BenC> delrey: it's open, it's just we have a specific topic for this channel
[11:48] <BenC> just like you don't go to #netbsd to ask a Win98 question
[11:48] <lifeless> delrey: you're welcome to stay
[11:48] <delrey> well, i'd be pretty useless in this channel
[11:48] <lifeless> delrey: its just that there is a focus to the discussions here, thats all.
[11:48] <BenC> delrey: The topic of the channel describes what is on-topic
[11:49] <lifeless> BenC: perhaps we could add main to that though.
[11:49] <BenC> and also points to #ubuntu-motu for your particular interest :)
[11:49] <BenC> lifeless: It just says "for getting involved in development"
[11:50] <lifeless> yeh
[11:50] <lifeless> I can see that ;)
[11:51] <delrey> I'm thinking of getting involved in the Google Summer of Code for Ubuntu, especially for better integration of a source code compilation mechanism - something like emerge on Gentoo to replace apt-get. Is that too ambitious?
[11:51] <jdong> delrey: that's what apt-build does :)
[11:51] <delrey> Yeargh, I'll look into that.
[11:51] <jdong> delrey: and I don't think what you're trying to accomplish is too ambitious, but getting that to fit in with the Debian/Ubuntu community will be.
[11:52] <jdong> delrey: the technology/mechanisms for simulating Portage on Ubuntu/Debian is well available :)
[11:54] <delrey> Darn, all the good ideas are taken :'(
[11:54] <jdong> delrey: I got it! Make an automatic codec installer!
[11:56] <BenC> delrey: The Device Driver Manager spec is something I'm proposing for SoC, if you are interested
[11:58] <delrey> Well, I'm going into EECS, so I'm looking for something more specifically related to that this summer (assuming I even get accepted). But if the emerge thing is taken, there's not much interest for me in other projects. The closest would possibly be getting drivers written for X that would help all distributinos that use X, but that's about it. I don't mean to be a jerk, but it's just not my thing.
[11:58] <lifeless> well
[11:58] <lifeless> apt-build is not really that close to emerge
[11:58] <lifeless> it only builds completely predefined things
[11:59] <jdong> lifeless: meh make special soruce packages that just fetch the source tarballs during build :)
[11:59] <jdong> lifeless: probably violates every policy but... oh well :D
[11:59] <lifeless> jdong: that doesn't address the other 16K packages
[12:02] <jdong> lifeless: heh no it doesn't.... a uupdate script would do that though
[12:02] <jdong> for the packages that build without dropping patches
[12:03] <jdong> lifeless: I've considered such an extension onto prevu but decided every developer would probably burn my house down :D
[12:08] <Burgundavia> delrey: to be brutally honest, I can think of about a dozen projects that might better suit Ubuntu than a source package builder