/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/03/18/#ubuntu-ops.txt

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terlmannwe have 1033 pple in ubuntu, could we get some regional methods in and split them up ?12:40
PriceChildterlmann: "regional methods"?12:41
Fujitsuterlmann: It's operating fine at the moment.12:41
terlmannyea12:41
terlmannthats the good part12:41
terlmannbut it does get hairy at times'12:41
terlmannso I had an idea12:41
terlmannpresorting the users into rooms based on location , but allow them to join other region rooms if they want to. splitting it up into 6 at the moment seems logical. as more begin to use ubuntu you are going to see the numbers rising. and combine the fact some clients(konversation for one) automatically query whois and you get a little laggy in about 3 months. the details can be ironed out later, what is important is that this issue needs to be cons12:45
terlmannidered now, as the *doom* approaches. lol.12:45
FujitsuThere are few enough people giving support as it is.12:45
FujitsuSplitting it up would exacerbate that situation greatly.12:46
terlmannjust a suggestion , would be proud to help.12:46
PriceChildAlso how would you tell new users "sorry... we'r enot going to help you here... go to that channel"12:47
Seveasyou don't12:47
Seveasthe most famous example is #python splitting up12:47
Seveasit's rather useless12:47
Seveasmany people join both channels12:48
terlmannno, you tell them that they CAN access the other 5 channels, but we put you in this one to begin with12:48
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terlmannyea12:48
terlmannthose that take the effort12:48
terlmannlike me and you12:48
Seveasterlmann, not going to happen. Period.12:48
terlmannok12:48
terlmannwhen do you think it is going to hit 30,000 ;-)12:48
Seveasby the rate it's growing (700 users in 2 years), not before I die12:50
PriceyFreenode will die first :P12:53
terlmannit actually , might go down considering that  the daughter os's like pioneer and soon to be freespire , and that svedish chap that made mandrake is making one , are going to draw some off..12:53
terlmannfreenode will never die12:53
terlmannwe have newcomers every day12:53
terlmannsabayon migrated , any others ?12:53
terlmannI wish debian and canonical would join ; and ubuntu would be the release branch. you would have to add a section that does it from dvds, but that is already underway, I presume.12:57
Priceyterlmann: No I meant that Freenode would die from the strain of a channel much larger than this much quicker than it got to a number that high12:58
=== Pricey growls at his wireless
terlmannwell , is there any work being done to pioneer a replacement for irc ?12:59
BearPersonthere's always jabber01:04
Seveaslol01:05
Seveasan xml protocol to replace an overcrowded more efficient protocol01:05
SeveasI don't see that working :)01:05
joejaxxlol01:05
joejaxximagine all 1000 ubuntu users in a jabber Conference room01:06
joejaxxhaha that would be terrible01:06
FujitsuBooom.01:06
FujitsuThat's quite some bandwidth01:06
joejaxxyeah01:07
BearPersonjabber conference rooms are not implemented very well currently01:08
BearPersonyou don't get much more efficient than irc, though01:09
BearPersonstill, jabber could potentially overtake irc if they get their act together01:09
SeveasBearPerson, I think we see people on jupiter before that happens :)01:09
BearPerson:)01:10
BearPersonthe question is always, if you're looking for a replacement for irc, what do you want replaced?01:11
terlmannirc is efficiant , but, more serverside code is needed01:11
Seveassome oddities01:11
BearPersondo you want a system where netsplits don't occur as often? use a mesh-linked irc-like network01:11
Seveaslike proper auth/ident01:11
terlmannand a advanced protocol01:11
Seveasstandardization between networks01:11
Seveasstandardization of Services01:11
joejaxxi would like the ability to have oper abilities without having a symbol by your name01:12
joejaxxthat would be nice01:12
Seveasjoejaxx, staff have that :)01:12
Priceyjoejaxx: that's possible ;)01:12
Priceyjoejaxx: never seen nalio.th being sneaky? :P01:12
joejaxxi mean for use channel opers :(01:12
BearPersona lot of those things take just a quick server hack01:12
joejaxxs/use/us/g01:12
BearPersonstandardization will not happen as long as that is the case01:12
SeveasBearPerson, indeed01:12
joejaxxSeveas: Pricey :)01:12
BearPersonthere is some irony in that01:12
BearPersonactually, mesh-linked only takes a moderately-sized server hack either, I guess01:13
Seveasyou can borrow routing and cycle detection from ip :)01:13
BearPersonyou could, if you had properly working multicast and broadcast01:14
Seveasirc with wormhole routed messages...01:14
BearPersonirc is nothing but multicast communication with privacy/control features01:14
Seveaswhile we're at it, let's re-implement email and get rid of spam01:15
BearPersonirc actually has a pretty decent extension hook with channel modes01:15
PriceyEasy as Pie01:15
BearPersonbut it has turned out to be not good enough in the long run01:16
SeveasPIE01:16
SeveasME LIKE PIE :)01:16
BearPerson\pi01:16
Seveas@calc pi01:16
Seveas@load Math01:16
Seveas@calc pi01:16
Ubugtu3.1415926535901:16
Seveas@calc pi *e01:16
Ubugtu8.5397342226701:16
Seveas@calc sqrt( Pricey )01:17
Seveas-Ubugtu- Error: 'pricey' is not a defined function.01:17
FujitsuAw...01:17
BearPersonI believe jabber can in principle skip past the protocol oddities that unnerve people with irc, while keeping reasonable reliability and resource standards01:17
Priceymmmmmmmmmmmmmm PIE!01:17
BearPersonbut it will take a significant amount of designing and work01:17
SeveasPricey, are you weebl or bob? :)01:17
Priceyuuu that's a tough one01:17
PriceyAnd I haven't tuned in in soooo long...01:18
BearPersonin xml I can just do <option type="ban">foo!bar@nook</option>01:18
BearPersoncompression can crush the bandwidth usage a bit for me01:18
Seveascompression is probably too expensive on the server01:18
BearPersonirc servers do compression01:19
BearPersononly between each other, though01:19
Seveasyeah, imagine doing c2s compression :)01:19
Seveasor worse, encryption01:19
BearPersonone of the basic faults with channel modes is that there's no quite standardized rule about which modes take parameters01:19
BearPersonthere are irc servers with ssl support01:20
SeveasI know01:20
Seveasthey don't grow big :)01:20
BearPersonwell, depends01:20
BearPersonI think right now most of our cpu load is select/poll calling overhead01:20
PriceyI am the monkey01:21
BearPersonthen again, 4000 simultaneous users isn't exactly 'big'01:21
Seveasis select that expensive when Nfds gets large?01:21
BearPersonyou have to loop again everytime you want to call select01:21
Seveastrue01:22
BearPersonthere are nonstandardized mechanisms where you add an fd you want to watch only once01:22
Seveaswhat's the use of that?01:23
BearPersoncome with pretty names like kselect, epoll, andsoon01:23
SeveasI heard of epoll, never used it though01:23
SeveasI usually am lazy and use the excellent select/mainloop integration in glib01:23
BearPersonhttp://monkey.org/~provos/libevent/libevent-benchmark2.jpg01:24
BearPerson"scalability"01:24
Seveasack01:25
Seveasthat scales damn nice :) (epoll/kqueue that is)01:25
BearPersonyeah01:25
BearPersonmodern ircds use them01:25
BearPersonwe don't, hyperion is a pile of $insert_expletive_here 8)01:26
Seveasgheghe01:26
Seveasis the registry project still alive without lilo?01:26
BearPersonwas it with him?01:26
BearPersonI'm still keeping a few ideas for it on the back burner01:26
Seveasbarely01:26
Seveasbut occasionally he'd say he wrote som code for it01:27
BearPersonI'm mostly focused on getting us a new ircd right now01:27
Seveasno more hyperion?01:27
BearPersonaye01:27
BearPersonmost of the features will survive, of course01:27
Seveasohmy, migration to a new ircd -- that'll mean complete shutdown & restart of the network01:28
Seveaschaos :)01:28
BearPersonbeen done before01:28
SeveasI know01:28
Seveasit was chaos ;)01:28
BearPersonit can be reduced a bit, actually01:28
BearPersonI've whipped up a few schemes01:28
Seveaspretty please keep the server-pass-is-nickserv-pass feature alive though, it's one of the best fatures of freenode :)01:29
BearPersonbut essentially, you can take a snapshot of the network 'channel state' (modes, bans, but probably not chanops/voices) and re-inject it when the network comes back up01:29
FujitsuSeveas: What does said feature do?01:29
BearPersonit's pretty nonhard01:29
BearPerson"when you specify a connection password but your iline does not require one, it is sent to nickserv in an identify command"01:29
FujitsuAh, that's nice.01:30
FujitsuIs it documented anywhere?01:30
BearPersonrequest noted, I'll try to keep it in my list01:30
BearPersonI think our website mentions it in passing01:30
Seveasthe website needs some thorough redesign01:30
BearPersonthat too, but I'm not a web designer :)01:30
Seveasheh01:30
Seveaswho's doing the website?01:30
BearPersonI'm a coder, I code; occasionally I talk to people ;)01:31
BearPersondepends on what you call 'doing' :)01:31
Seveasmaintaining01:31
Seveaswriting pieces of code/content01:31
BearPersonI can try to remember who has edit access, though I probably couldn't tell you... ;)01:31
Seveaslol01:31
Seveas"If I told you, I'd have to kill you"01:32
BearPerson"/kill you" you mean ;)01:32
BearPersonbut that wouldn't help :)01:32
Seveashehe01:32
BearPersonmostly, we are running quite well on quite moldy code01:33
BearPersonhyperion has been maintained for the past years with the assumption that it'll be abandoned soon01:34
BearPersontheia has never seen anything remotely resembling 'maintenance' anyway ;)01:34
=== SportChick looks in at Seveas
SportChickSeveas: got a few minutes?01:36
Seveassure01:36
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SportChickanyone here knowledgeable in ubuntu AND raid AND willing to help a blonde, clueless chick and her hubby?01:46
LjLno^301:47
SportChickLjL: :(01:47
LjLwell i really don't know anything about raid, i feel lucky when i have *one* drive that works01:48
terlmannSportChick : must you raid ?01:51
Seveasterlmann, yes - promise raid controller01:52
terlmanno well.... you know about mdadm ?01:52
Seveasmust ven do hardware raid01:52
Seveaskernel doesn't see disks without the promise driver01:53
SportChickwe aren't set up for hw raid at this point01:53
Seveaswell, you could do software raid01:53
Seveasbut after going through the trouble of getting that promise thing working, you might as well do proper hardware raid01:53
terlmannyea, hardware is faster and more reliable than software ;-)01:54
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Seveaswith a promise controller, that's not always true :P01:54
terlmannyou think , but on my system I damm well guarantee you hardware handling the work would be faster ;-P01:56
Seveasfaster, true01:56
Seveasmore reliable... neh...01:56
terlmannnow as for me I cant get any help in #ubuntu for a simple problem I have , and I think It could be solved in 1 step , just I dont know the step.01:57
Seveasthe problem being?01:57
terlmannesd does not work .01:57
SportChickoops, yeah, hardware raid, not sw - told you mozul should be the one talking :)01:58
terlmannALSA lib pcm_route.c:1121:(_snd_pcm_route_open) ttable is not defined01:58
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terlmanngstreamer-properties-Message: Skipping unavailable plugin 'esdsink' << and it skipped lots more01:58
terlmanneheh01:58
Seveasterlmann, is ubuntu-desktop installed?01:58
terlmannthis story has a history01:58
terlmannyes01:58
terlmannback to the custom kernel  we go, where I added in 2 fake sound cards in the compile .01:59
Seveasahhh.... custom kernel01:59
terlmannnow I have new kernel01:59
Seveas-ENOSUPPORT01:59
terlmannbut still no worky01:59
Seveasmost people in #ubuntu won't even try supporting custom kernels02:00
terlmanno no U upgraded after that02:00
terlmannno custom now02:00
terlmannubuntu linux kernel installed02:00
Seveasfor a good reason, the Ubuntu kernel actually know what they are doing. Most people trying a custom kernel don't :)02:00
Seveass/Ubuntu kernel/Ubuntu kernel team/02:00
terlmannwell, what is the quick way to reconfigure the sound system ?02:01
terlmannI cant find it anywere02:01
terlmannalsa works02:01
terlmannbut not esd02:01
Seveas*must not make joking remark about esd not working being a feature and not a bug*02:01
Seveasa well, didit anyway....02:01
Seveas:)02:01
terlmannso , is there a cli command to reset it to ubuntu defaults ?02:03
Seveasno idea02:03
SeveasI try not to mess with sound02:04
Seveasalsa scares me02:04
PriceChildtsmithe:02:04
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naliothtonyyarusso: he's klined03:30
tonyyarussonalioth: ty03:31
tonyyarussoseemed weird to manage twice03:31
naliothhuh?03:31
tonyyarussonm03:33
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SebbohI have been informed that my router suffers from the malformed DCC request vulnerability.  I'd like to test that.  Please describe what I'm supposed to watch for before sending me any malformed DCC requests...04:53
Hobbseehi Sebboh04:54
naliothSebboh: join me in #moderation, please04:54
SebbohNice nickname, Hobbsee. ;)04:55
Hobbsee:)04:55
SebbohNalioth, #moderation?  That would be the third channel in this scavenger hunt.. =P04:56
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tonyyarussoSebboh: indeed :P04:56
naliothSebboh: you may ask any of these other ops to test you, but it's still gonna be another channel04:56
SebbohI just came and left moderation.  I get it now, it was an arbitrary channel.  Sure.  I'm there.04:57
naliothtsk tsk04:58
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SebbohRather than connect on a different port, I think I'll flash my router. =P04:59
naliothSebboh: your choice04:59
naliothonce you get it done, let us know  :)05:00
Sebbohbtw the hardware pukes before dumping its buffers onto the line, it seems--I'm saying that the strings never reached my client.05:00
SebbohAhh, and it doesn't kill all the connections, just the one that it comes down.  (Just noticed that my other IRC connection didn't peer out at all..)05:02
Hobbseeindeed05:02
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Amaranthnalioth: don't suppose you'd know the status of my compiz group registration06:47
naliothlet me look06:49
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effie_jayxhello07:40
Madpilotevening07:40
Hobbseehiya07:40
naliothhowdy07:42
=== Hobbsee DOOMS everyone in greeting
effie_jayxHobbsee,  why me!!!07:42
Hobbseeeffie_jayx: because it's fun!07:43
effie_jayxhehe07:43
effie_jayxHobbsee,  how is LongPointyStick  is related to your weapon :D07:44
Hobbseeheh07:44
HobbseeLongPointyStick keeps watch, when i'm nto here07:44
effie_jayxohh ;) I see07:44
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effie_jayx:O07:48
=== Hobbsee laughs at PuMpErNiCkLe's puny attempt at world domination.
=== PuMpErNiCkLe feels small
effie_jayxPuMpErNiCkLe,  I gotta give it to ya... you are brave... to go an try to QUAKE the almighty Hobbsee07:52
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naliothso Hobbsee please confirm my bad math . . .08:11
naliothwe've got about 13 hours til the meeting, yes?08:11
Hobbseewhen did we decide to hold it?08:12
Hobbseeuh, no one's told fridge, etc, yet, and this topic still says the old time08:12
Hobbseeyep, that'd be right08:13
naliothHobbsee: the irc meeting is between 4 people08:13
naliothwhy does it need to be on the fridge?08:13
Hobbseebecause the old time is?08:14
=== Hobbsee shrugs
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cablesThere are a bunch of people in #ubuntu talking about Vista and Windows and gaming... I've !offtopiced them several times.08:55
maxamillionnalioth: ping08:56
naliothmaxamillion: pong08:57
maxamillionnalioth: you have ops in #ubuntu?08:57
naliothmaxamillion: i have ops in #ubuntu, yes.08:57
GazzaKnalioth has ops everywhere :-) /me runs and hides08:57
maxamillionnalioth: ok, then maybe you can help cables or look into his complaint ... i lack ops there or else i would ;)08:58
maxamillionnalioth: thanks btw08:58
cablesnalioth !offtopic-ed08:58
cablesalready.08:58
naliothi've been watching since he came in08:58
maxamillionnalioth: oh ... ok, just checking09:02
maxamillionnalioth: didn't know if you were around ... just saw that you were the most probable to be at your kerboard according the the time stamp on the last thing you wrote09:03
maxamillion:)09:03
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nalioththey seem to have turned back to the topic at hand.... Ubuntu09:03
maxamillionwell that's always good09:03
naliothwhat the hell is going on in #ubuntu ?09:20
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naliothhi ompaul09:20
ompaulmorning09:21
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nalioth!ping09:30
ubotupong09:30
maxamillionlol09:31
naliothmaxamillion: something funny? i'm severely lagged and seeing how much lag i have09:31
maxamillionoh09:32
maxamillionnalioth: i just didn't know ubotu would pong09:32
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=== Hobbsee chisels mneptok
tsmithethat's not very nice11:13
=== jenda takes a picture
Hobbseethoreauputic: oh dear....11:31
thoreauputichmmm11:31
Kamping_Kaiserhi thoreauputic11:32
=== thoreauputic thinks about the sort of response that would have had in #debian a few years back
thoreauputicKamping_Kaiser: hello :)11:32
Kamping_Kaiser:)11:32
Hobbseethoreauputic: heh.  well, it *is* for a development release11:35
thoreauputicHobbsee: I kind of like the "WTF are you doing running Sid when you hav eno clue?" attitude (sometimes we are a bit too nice to people ) ;)11:36
thoreauputicHobbsee: that makes me a bad Ubuntuero I think ;p11:37
thoreauputic.. also a lousy typist11:37
=== thoreauputic smacks his fingers
Kamping_Kaiserthoreauputic, its true though (why are you running sid with no clue?)11:37
thoreauputicKamping_Kaiser: that's what I mean - people need to be reminded that they are running alpha/beta software11:38
Kamping_Kaiserthoreauputic, yup. *offers cluebat*11:39
Hobbseethoreauputic: heh.  exactly. "why are you running the devleopment release, where things break, with no clue"12:01
Hobbseei think that's a legit question, and in the asker's interest, it's better to ask12:01
thoreauputichaving said that, i must say that feisty has been pretty friendly lately afaics :)12:04
Kamping_KaiserEtch is down to 65 RC bugs - wow12:05
Hobbseehehe12:06
Hobbseeyes12:06
Kamping_Kaiserfingers crossed they find more - i want it to come out for my birthday ;)12:07
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Hobbseehi Vorian_12:26
Vorian_hey Hobbsee :)12:27
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LjLok, the following is a personal interest of mine, you decide if it's too specific and not worth adding02:09
LjL!roadnav is a free street mapping and GPS navigation program with spoken directions, using free data available from the U.S. Census Bureau (TIGER, at http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/) and the OpenStreetMap project (at http://www.openstreetmap.org/) - An !Edgy compatible package can be downloaded at http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/02:09
ubotuI'll remember that, LjL02:09
LjL!maps is <reply> Street mapping and GPS navigation software available for Ubuntu includes !GpsDrive (GTK, raster maps, free), !Roadnav (GTK, free vector maps from Tiger and OSM, free), !GoogleEarth (Qt, proprietary vector maps, proprietary)02:09
Hobbseeheya LjL02:10
LjLmorn... ev... hi hobbsee02:10
elkbuntumorning for 10 minutes now02:11
LjLeleven02:11
LjLunless my NTP client is very much mistaken :P02:11
LjLwell, twelve02:12
elkbuntumeh, i wasnt intending on being precise02:13
LjL:P02:13
ikoniaLjL: awake ?02:19
ikoniaor anyone02:19
LjLyup02:19
ikoniagive cunnint_stung (bad nick) a prod will you he keeps refering to boxes as "shitboxes"02:19
LjLidleone !languaged, let's see if they keep on doing it02:20
ikoniahe's done it 2 times so far - but yes, thats why I asked for a "prod" - also his nick swap the s and the c around02:20
LjLah, right... i was wondering why the nick sounded slightly vulgar to me, and couldn't find a reason =)02:21
ikoniayeah02:22
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dsasHi, am I in the right place to request an IRC cloak?03:08
naliothdsas: depends on the cloak03:08
dsasa ubuntu/member one.03:08
nalioth!member03:08
ubotuWant to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember03:08
dsasI am a member.03:10
dsashttp://launchpad.net/~dsas03:10
naliothpoke seveas03:11
dsasnalioth: ok thanks .03:11
dsasSeveas: could you give me an IRC cloak please? I'm http://launchpad.net/~dsas03:11
ompauldsas, ehh no, he can't he can request it :)03:12
dsasbah, Seveas could you request that then please? :)03:12
ompauldsas, also it is Sunday ... so time will be a thing ... you will have one soon I imagine03:12
dsasompaul, Seveas: I've coped the last two months, no rush.03:13
=== ompaul hints to dsas that Mr S is not around so pinging him later or tomorrow might be a good thing and not sending memos or some such but a straight PM might be best
ompaulAll hail oneko and curse the bugs of X paths!03:14
dsasompaul: righto. thanks for your help.03:14
ompauldsas, you are welcome03:14
=== ompaul thinks why type yw when you can get your word count up by one whole word the other way, to say nothing of the long explaination about what you were doing just after that
naliothompaul: oneko ate the dutchman memoservice03:16
ompaulnalioth, oneko ate lots of bad karma and did not complain, so some people who have good karma and should not still use IRC today :)03:16
thoreauputicompaul: does having a high word count increase karma ?03:17
ompaulAll hail oneko03:17
ompaulthoreauputic, no but saying oneko does03:17
thoreauputic:)03:17
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ikoniaLjL: is that the same wolverine from the other day that seveas banned ?05:45
LjLikonia: dunno, i know i had redirected him to here for the same reason as now before05:45
ikoniaahhhhh05:46
ikoniaI was curious if it was the same guy, I was going to strap in and watch the argument again05:46
ompaulwhere?05:47
ikoniawhere what05:47
ikoniasorry do you mean where was the agrument ?05:47
ikoniaargument even05:48
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ompaulikonia, yes06:05
ikoniaompaul: the argument was a few days ago, he was just trolling seveas banned him and just refused to discuss it after he started pm'ing seveas being a pain, it was just ammusing06:33
ikoniaompaul: just wondered if it was the same guy06:33
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babyjuPlease test me for the DCCExploit fix.06:36
PriceChildbabyju, join #babyju  please06:36
PriceChild@btlogin06:40
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PriceChildbabyju, You may now rejoin06:41
PriceChild#ubuntu :)06:42
babyjuthank you.06:43
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