=== zenwhen_ [n=zenwhen@74-131-20-53.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #ubuntu-ops === Vorian [n=steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-ops === terlmann [n=terlmann@207.254.168.168] has joined #ubuntu-ops [12:40] we have 1033 pple in ubuntu, could we get some regional methods in and split them up ? [12:41] terlmann: "regional methods"? [12:41] terlmann: It's operating fine at the moment. [12:41] yea [12:41] thats the good part [12:41] but it does get hairy at times' [12:41] so I had an idea [12:45] presorting the users into rooms based on location , but allow them to join other region rooms if they want to. splitting it up into 6 at the moment seems logical. as more begin to use ubuntu you are going to see the numbers rising. and combine the fact some clients(konversation for one) automatically query whois and you get a little laggy in about 3 months. the details can be ironed out later, what is important is that this issue needs to be cons [12:45] idered now, as the *doom* approaches. lol. [12:45] There are few enough people giving support as it is. [12:46] Splitting it up would exacerbate that situation greatly. [12:46] just a suggestion , would be proud to help. [12:47] Also how would you tell new users "sorry... we'r enot going to help you here... go to that channel" [12:47] you don't [12:47] the most famous example is #python splitting up [12:47] it's rather useless [12:48] many people join both channels [12:48] no, you tell them that they CAN access the other 5 channels, but we put you in this one to begin with === Pricey [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Pricey] by ChanServ [12:48] yea [12:48] those that take the effort [12:48] like me and you [12:48] terlmann, not going to happen. Period. [12:48] ok [12:48] when do you think it is going to hit 30,000 ;-) [12:50] by the rate it's growing (700 users in 2 years), not before I die [12:53] Freenode will die first :P [12:53] it actually , might go down considering that the daughter os's like pioneer and soon to be freespire , and that svedish chap that made mandrake is making one , are going to draw some off.. [12:53] freenode will never die [12:53] we have newcomers every day [12:53] sabayon migrated , any others ? [12:57] I wish debian and canonical would join ; and ubuntu would be the release branch. you would have to add a section that does it from dvds, but that is already underway, I presume. [12:58] terlmann: No I meant that Freenode would die from the strain of a channel much larger than this much quicker than it got to a number that high === Pricey growls at his wireless [12:59] well , is there any work being done to pioneer a replacement for irc ? [01:04] there's always jabber [01:05] lol [01:05] an xml protocol to replace an overcrowded more efficient protocol [01:05] I don't see that working :) [01:05] lol [01:06] imagine all 1000 ubuntu users in a jabber Conference room [01:06] haha that would be terrible [01:06] Booom. [01:06] That's quite some bandwidth [01:07] yeah [01:08] jabber conference rooms are not implemented very well currently [01:09] you don't get much more efficient than irc, though [01:09] still, jabber could potentially overtake irc if they get their act together [01:09] BearPerson, I think we see people on jupiter before that happens :) [01:10] :) [01:11] the question is always, if you're looking for a replacement for irc, what do you want replaced? [01:11] irc is efficiant , but, more serverside code is needed [01:11] some oddities [01:11] do you want a system where netsplits don't occur as often? use a mesh-linked irc-like network [01:11] like proper auth/ident [01:11] and a advanced protocol [01:11] standardization between networks [01:11] standardization of Services [01:12] i would like the ability to have oper abilities without having a symbol by your name [01:12] that would be nice [01:12] joejaxx, staff have that :) [01:12] joejaxx: that's possible ;) [01:12] joejaxx: never seen nalio.th being sneaky? :P [01:12] i mean for use channel opers :( [01:12] a lot of those things take just a quick server hack [01:12] s/use/us/g [01:12] standardization will not happen as long as that is the case [01:12] BearPerson, indeed [01:12] Seveas: Pricey :) [01:12] there is some irony in that [01:13] actually, mesh-linked only takes a moderately-sized server hack either, I guess [01:13] you can borrow routing and cycle detection from ip :) [01:14] you could, if you had properly working multicast and broadcast [01:14] irc with wormhole routed messages... [01:14] irc is nothing but multicast communication with privacy/control features [01:15] while we're at it, let's re-implement email and get rid of spam [01:15] irc actually has a pretty decent extension hook with channel modes [01:15] Easy as Pie [01:16] but it has turned out to be not good enough in the long run [01:16] PIE [01:16] ME LIKE PIE :) [01:16] \pi [01:16] @calc pi [01:16] @load Math [01:16] @calc pi [01:16] 3.14159265359 [01:16] @calc pi *e [01:16] 8.53973422267 [01:17] @calc sqrt( Pricey ) [01:17] -Ubugtu- Error: 'pricey' is not a defined function. [01:17] Aw... [01:17] I believe jabber can in principle skip past the protocol oddities that unnerve people with irc, while keeping reasonable reliability and resource standards [01:17] mmmmmmmmmmmmmm PIE! [01:17] but it will take a significant amount of designing and work [01:17] Pricey, are you weebl or bob? :) [01:17] uuu that's a tough one [01:18] And I haven't tuned in in soooo long... [01:18] in xml I can just do [01:18] compression can crush the bandwidth usage a bit for me [01:18] compression is probably too expensive on the server [01:19] irc servers do compression [01:19] only between each other, though [01:19] yeah, imagine doing c2s compression :) [01:19] or worse, encryption [01:19] one of the basic faults with channel modes is that there's no quite standardized rule about which modes take parameters [01:20] there are irc servers with ssl support [01:20] I know [01:20] they don't grow big :) [01:20] well, depends [01:20] I think right now most of our cpu load is select/poll calling overhead [01:21] I am the monkey [01:21] then again, 4000 simultaneous users isn't exactly 'big' [01:21] is select that expensive when Nfds gets large? [01:21] you have to loop again everytime you want to call select [01:22] true [01:22] there are nonstandardized mechanisms where you add an fd you want to watch only once [01:23] what's the use of that? [01:23] come with pretty names like kselect, epoll, andsoon [01:23] I heard of epoll, never used it though [01:23] I usually am lazy and use the excellent select/mainloop integration in glib [01:24] http://monkey.org/~provos/libevent/libevent-benchmark2.jpg [01:24] "scalability" [01:25] ack [01:25] that scales damn nice :) (epoll/kqueue that is) [01:25] yeah [01:25] modern ircds use them [01:26] we don't, hyperion is a pile of $insert_expletive_here 8) [01:26] gheghe [01:26] is the registry project still alive without lilo? [01:26] was it with him? [01:26] I'm still keeping a few ideas for it on the back burner [01:26] barely [01:27] but occasionally he'd say he wrote som code for it [01:27] I'm mostly focused on getting us a new ircd right now [01:27] no more hyperion? [01:27] aye [01:27] most of the features will survive, of course [01:28] ohmy, migration to a new ircd -- that'll mean complete shutdown & restart of the network [01:28] chaos :) [01:28] been done before [01:28] I know [01:28] it was chaos ;) [01:28] it can be reduced a bit, actually [01:28] I've whipped up a few schemes [01:29] pretty please keep the server-pass-is-nickserv-pass feature alive though, it's one of the best fatures of freenode :) [01:29] but essentially, you can take a snapshot of the network 'channel state' (modes, bans, but probably not chanops/voices) and re-inject it when the network comes back up [01:29] Seveas: What does said feature do? [01:29] it's pretty nonhard [01:29] "when you specify a connection password but your iline does not require one, it is sent to nickserv in an identify command" [01:30] Ah, that's nice. [01:30] Is it documented anywhere? [01:30] request noted, I'll try to keep it in my list [01:30] I think our website mentions it in passing [01:30] the website needs some thorough redesign [01:30] that too, but I'm not a web designer :) [01:30] heh [01:30] who's doing the website? [01:31] I'm a coder, I code; occasionally I talk to people ;) [01:31] depends on what you call 'doing' :) [01:31] maintaining [01:31] writing pieces of code/content [01:31] I can try to remember who has edit access, though I probably couldn't tell you... ;) [01:31] lol [01:32] "If I told you, I'd have to kill you" [01:32] "/kill you" you mean ;) [01:32] but that wouldn't help :) [01:32] hehe [01:33] mostly, we are running quite well on quite moldy code [01:34] hyperion has been maintained for the past years with the assumption that it'll be abandoned soon [01:34] theia has never seen anything remotely resembling 'maintenance' anyway ;) === SportChick looks in at Seveas [01:36] Seveas: got a few minutes? [01:36] sure === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v PriceChild] by ChanServ [01:46] anyone here knowledgeable in ubuntu AND raid AND willing to help a blonde, clueless chick and her hubby? [01:47] no^3 [01:47] LjL: :( [01:48] well i really don't know anything about raid, i feel lucky when i have *one* drive that works [01:51] SportChick : must you raid ? [01:52] terlmann, yes - promise raid controller [01:52] o well.... you know about mdadm ? [01:52] must ven do hardware raid [01:53] kernel doesn't see disks without the promise driver [01:53] we aren't set up for hw raid at this point [01:53] well, you could do software raid [01:53] but after going through the trouble of getting that promise thing working, you might as well do proper hardware raid [01:54] yea, hardware is faster and more reliable than software ;-) === QMario [n=QMario@cpe-70-116-124-115.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #Ubuntu-ops [01:54] with a promise controller, that's not always true :P [01:56] you think , but on my system I damm well guarantee you hardware handling the work would be faster ;-P [01:56] faster, true [01:56] more reliable... neh... [01:57] now as for me I cant get any help in #ubuntu for a simple problem I have , and I think It could be solved in 1 step , just I dont know the step. [01:57] the problem being? [01:57] esd does not work . [01:58] oops, yeah, hardware raid, not sw - told you mozul should be the one talking :) [01:58] ALSA lib pcm_route.c:1121:(_snd_pcm_route_open) ttable is not defined === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v PriceChild] by ChanServ [01:58] gstreamer-properties-Message: Skipping unavailable plugin 'esdsink' << and it skipped lots more [01:58] eheh [01:58] terlmann, is ubuntu-desktop installed? [01:58] this story has a history [01:58] yes [01:59] back to the custom kernel we go, where I added in 2 fake sound cards in the compile . [01:59] ahhh.... custom kernel [01:59] now I have new kernel [01:59] -ENOSUPPORT [01:59] but still no worky [02:00] most people in #ubuntu won't even try supporting custom kernels [02:00] o no U upgraded after that [02:00] no custom now [02:00] ubuntu linux kernel installed [02:00] for a good reason, the Ubuntu kernel actually know what they are doing. Most people trying a custom kernel don't :) [02:00] s/Ubuntu kernel/Ubuntu kernel team/ [02:01] well, what is the quick way to reconfigure the sound system ? [02:01] I cant find it anywere [02:01] alsa works [02:01] but not esd [02:01] *must not make joking remark about esd not working being a feature and not a bug* [02:01] a well, didit anyway.... [02:01] :) [02:03] so , is there a cli command to reset it to ubuntu defaults ? [02:03] no idea [02:04] I try not to mess with sound [02:04] alsa scares me [02:04] tsmithe: === Vorian [n=steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has left #ubuntu-ops ["Leaving"] === Vorian [n=vorian@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-ops === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v tonyyarusso] by ChanServ === IndyGunFreak [n=ken@user-0cdv00n.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-ops === IndyGunFreak [n=ken@user-0cdv00n.cable.mindspring.com] has left #ubuntu-ops ["Leaving"] [03:30] tonyyarusso: he's klined [03:31] nalioth: ty [03:31] seemed weird to manage twice [03:31] huh? [03:33] nm === Vorian [n=vorian@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has left #ubuntu-ops [] === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Hobbsee] by ChanServ === Sebboh [n=hobbes@24.144.25.20] has joined #ubuntu-ops [04:53] I have been informed that my router suffers from the malformed DCC request vulnerability. I'd like to test that. Please describe what I'm supposed to watch for before sending me any malformed DCC requests... [04:54] hi Sebboh [04:54] Sebboh: join me in #moderation, please [04:55] Nice nickname, Hobbsee. ;) [04:55] :) [04:56] Nalioth, #moderation? That would be the third channel in this scavenger hunt.. =P === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Madpilot] by ChanServ [04:56] Sebboh: indeed :P [04:56] Sebboh: you may ask any of these other ops to test you, but it's still gonna be another channel [04:57] I just came and left moderation. I get it now, it was an arbitrary channel. Sure. I'm there. [04:58] tsk tsk === Sebboh [n=hobbes@24.144.25.20] has joined #ubuntu-ops [04:59] Rather than connect on a different port, I think I'll flash my router. =P [04:59] Sebboh: your choice [05:00] once you get it done, let us know :) [05:00] btw the hardware pukes before dumping its buffers onto the line, it seems--I'm saying that the strings never reached my client. [05:02] Ahh, and it doesn't kill all the connections, just the one that it comes down. (Just noticed that my other IRC connection didn't peer out at all..) [05:02] indeed === maxamillion [n=max@r74-192-178-37.htvlcmta01.hnvitx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v maxamillion] by ChanServ [06:47] nalioth: don't suppose you'd know the status of my compiz group registration [06:49] let me look === effie_jayx [n=valles@190.37.120.138] has joined #ubuntu-ops [07:40] hello [07:40] evening [07:40] hiya [07:42] howdy === Hobbsee DOOMS everyone in greeting [07:42] Hobbsee, why me!!! [07:43] effie_jayx: because it's fun! [07:43] hehe [07:44] Hobbsee, how is LongPointyStick is related to your weapon :D [07:44] heh [07:44] LongPointyStick keeps watch, when i'm nto here [07:44] ohh ;) I see === PuMpErNiCkLe QUAKES Hobbsee in response :p [07:48] :O === Hobbsee laughs at PuMpErNiCkLe's puny attempt at world domination. === PuMpErNiCkLe feels small [07:52] PuMpErNiCkLe, I gotta give it to ya... you are brave... to go an try to QUAKE the almighty Hobbsee === effie_jayx [n=valles@190.37.120.138] has joined #ubuntu-ops [08:11] so Hobbsee please confirm my bad math . . . [08:11] we've got about 13 hours til the meeting, yes? [08:12] when did we decide to hold it? [08:12] uh, no one's told fridge, etc, yet, and this topic still says the old time [08:13] yep, that'd be right [08:13] Hobbsee: the irc meeting is between 4 people [08:13] why does it need to be on the fridge? [08:14] because the old time is? === Hobbsee shrugs === GazzaK [n=Dogbert@colchester-lug/GazzaK] has joined #ubuntu-ops === cables [n=cables@65-78-17-151.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-ops [08:55] There are a bunch of people in #ubuntu talking about Vista and Windows and gaming... I've !offtopiced them several times. [08:56] nalioth: ping [08:57] maxamillion: pong [08:57] nalioth: you have ops in #ubuntu? [08:57] maxamillion: i have ops in #ubuntu, yes. [08:57] nalioth has ops everywhere :-) /me runs and hides [08:58] nalioth: ok, then maybe you can help cables or look into his complaint ... i lack ops there or else i would ;) [08:58] nalioth: thanks btw [08:58] nalioth !offtopic-ed [08:58] already. [08:58] i've been watching since he came in [09:02] nalioth: oh ... ok, just checking [09:03] nalioth: didn't know if you were around ... just saw that you were the most probable to be at your kerboard according the the time stamp on the last thing you wrote [09:03] :) === cables [n=cables@65-78-17-151.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #ubuntu-ops ["Leaving"] [09:03] they seem to have turned back to the topic at hand.... Ubuntu [09:03] well that's always good [09:20] what the hell is going on in #ubuntu ? === ompaul [n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v ompaul] by ChanServ [09:20] hi ompaul [09:21] morning === Seeker` [n=cjo20@85-211-143-0.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-ops [09:30] !ping [09:30] pong [09:31] lol [09:31] maxamillion: something funny? i'm severely lagged and seeing how much lag i have [09:32] oh [09:32] nalioth: i just didn't know ubotu would pong === phos-phoros [n=donovan@unaffiliated/phos-phoros] has joined #ubuntu-ops === thoreauputic [n=prospero@ubuntu/member/thoreauputic] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v thoreauputic] by ChanServ === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Hobbsee] by ChanServ === Hobbsee chisels mneptok [11:13] that's not very nice === jenda takes a picture [11:31] thoreauputic: oh dear.... [11:31] hmmm [11:32] hi thoreauputic === thoreauputic thinks about the sort of response that would have had in #debian a few years back [11:32] Kamping_Kaiser: hello :) [11:32] :) [11:35] thoreauputic: heh. well, it *is* for a development release [11:36] Hobbsee: I kind of like the "WTF are you doing running Sid when you hav eno clue?" attitude (sometimes we are a bit too nice to people ) ;) [11:37] Hobbsee: that makes me a bad Ubuntuero I think ;p [11:37] .. also a lousy typist === thoreauputic smacks his fingers [11:37] thoreauputic, its true though (why are you running sid with no clue?) [11:38] Kamping_Kaiser: that's what I mean - people need to be reminded that they are running alpha/beta software [11:39] thoreauputic, yup. *offers cluebat* [12:01] thoreauputic: heh. exactly. "why are you running the devleopment release, where things break, with no clue" [12:01] i think that's a legit question, and in the asker's interest, it's better to ask [12:04] having said that, i must say that feisty has been pretty friendly lately afaics :) [12:05] Etch is down to 65 RC bugs - wow [12:06] hehe [12:06] yes [12:07] fingers crossed they find more - i want it to come out for my birthday ;) === Vorian_ [n=steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-ops [12:26] hi Vorian_ [12:27] hey Hobbsee :) === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Jucato] by ChanServ === LjL [n=ljl@unaffiliated/ljl] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v LjL] by ChanServ [02:09] ok, the following is a personal interest of mine, you decide if it's too specific and not worth adding [02:09] !roadnav is a free street mapping and GPS navigation program with spoken directions, using free data available from the U.S. Census Bureau (TIGER, at http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/) and the OpenStreetMap project (at http://www.openstreetmap.org/) - An !Edgy compatible package can be downloaded at http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/ [02:09] I'll remember that, LjL [02:09] !maps is Street mapping and GPS navigation software available for Ubuntu includes !GpsDrive (GTK, raster maps, free), !Roadnav (GTK, free vector maps from Tiger and OSM, free), !GoogleEarth (Qt, proprietary vector maps, proprietary) [02:10] heya LjL [02:10] morn... ev... hi hobbsee [02:11] morning for 10 minutes now [02:11] eleven [02:11] unless my NTP client is very much mistaken :P [02:12] well, twelve [02:13] meh, i wasnt intending on being precise [02:13] :P [02:19] LjL: awake ? [02:19] or anyone [02:19] yup [02:19] give cunnint_stung (bad nick) a prod will you he keeps refering to boxes as "shitboxes" [02:20] idleone !languaged, let's see if they keep on doing it [02:20] he's done it 2 times so far - but yes, thats why I asked for a "prod" - also his nick swap the s and the c around [02:21] ah, right... i was wondering why the nick sounded slightly vulgar to me, and couldn't find a reason =) [02:22] yeah === PuMpErNiCkLe [n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v PuMpErNiCkLe] by ChanServ === dsas [n=dean@cpc3-stok6-0-0-cust253.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-ops [03:08] Hi, am I in the right place to request an IRC cloak? [03:08] dsas: depends on the cloak [03:08] a ubuntu/member one. [03:08] !member [03:08] Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember [03:10] I am a member. [03:10] http://launchpad.net/~dsas [03:11] poke seveas [03:11] nalioth: ok thanks . [03:11] Seveas: could you give me an IRC cloak please? I'm http://launchpad.net/~dsas [03:12] dsas, ehh no, he can't he can request it :) [03:12] bah, Seveas could you request that then please? :) [03:12] dsas, also it is Sunday ... so time will be a thing ... you will have one soon I imagine [03:13] ompaul, Seveas: I've coped the last two months, no rush. === ompaul hints to dsas that Mr S is not around so pinging him later or tomorrow might be a good thing and not sending memos or some such but a straight PM might be best [03:14] All hail oneko and curse the bugs of X paths! [03:14] ompaul: righto. thanks for your help. [03:14] dsas, you are welcome === ompaul thinks why type yw when you can get your word count up by one whole word the other way, to say nothing of the long explaination about what you were doing just after that [03:16] ompaul: oneko ate the dutchman memoservice [03:16] nalioth, oneko ate lots of bad karma and did not complain, so some people who have good karma and should not still use IRC today :) [03:17] ompaul: does having a high word count increase karma ? [03:17] All hail oneko [03:17] thoreauputic, no but saying oneko does [03:17] :) === Vorian_ [n=steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-ops === zenwhen_ [n=zenwhen@74-131-20-53.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #ubuntu-ops === ikonia_ [n=mattd@alesi.projecthugo.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-ops === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v PriceChild] by ChanServ === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v PriceChild] by ChanServ === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-ops === GazzaK [n=Dogbert@colchester-lug/GazzaK] has joined #ubuntu-ops [05:45] LjL: is that the same wolverine from the other day that seveas banned ? [05:45] ikonia: dunno, i know i had redirected him to here for the same reason as now before [05:46] ahhhhh [05:46] I was curious if it was the same guy, I was going to strap in and watch the argument again [05:47] where? [05:47] where what [05:47] sorry do you mean where was the agrument ? [05:48] argument even === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v PriceChild] by ChanServ === Pricey [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Pricey] by ChanServ === Sebboh [n=hobbes@24.144.23.198] has joined #ubuntu-ops [06:05] ikonia, yes [06:33] ompaul: the argument was a few days ago, he was just trolling seveas banned him and just refused to discuss it after he started pm'ing seveas being a pain, it was just ammusing [06:33] ompaul: just wondered if it was the same guy === babyju [n=aedwards@ool-4351dd68.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-ops [06:36] Please test me for the DCCExploit fix. [06:36] babyju, join #babyju please [06:40] @btlogin === Vorian [n=vorian@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-ops [06:41] babyju, You may now rejoin [06:42] #ubuntu :) [06:43] thank you. === PriceChild growls at his misplaced # key again === babyju [n=aedwards@ool-4351dd68.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-ops ["Leaving"]