[01:24] <mpt> I propose that each time someone visits their own +karma page, their karma drops by 10 points
[01:24] <LaserJock> :-)
[01:25] <Kmos> hehe
[01:26] <LaserJock> mpt: karma -= $bigheadpoints
[01:27] <mpt> What does "-=" mean?
[01:28] <LaserJock> karma = karma - $bigheadpoints
[01:29] <jamesh> in place subtraction
[01:30] <Kmos> :)
[01:30] <Kmos> mpt: u're not a coder
[01:30] <Kmos> hehe
[01:31] <Kmos> karma-=rand() % 10;
[01:31] <Kmos> hehe
[01:37] <mpt> oh, decrementing
[01:38] <mpt> LaserJock, in the beta interface everyone has a bighead, so decrements for everybody
[01:41] <LaserJock> mpt: :(
[01:42] <LaserJock> mpt: speaking of big heads, in beta I now see a hackergotchi in 2 places
[01:43] <Kmos> LaserJock: maybe in the left top corner will be the hackergotchi
[01:43] <Kmos> and not in the right
[01:43] <LaserJock> mpt: but the one in the upper left looks really crowded, at least on my page
[01:43] <Kmos> anyone knows?
[01:43] <Kmos> :)
[01:43] <mpt> LaserJock, we're currently discussing appropriate sizes for the graphics in each place
[01:44] <mpt> Kmos, the one in the upper left appears on all your pages. The one on the right appears only on your Overview page.
[01:44] <Kmos> yep
[01:45] <Kmos> the upper left one won't be replaced by hackergotchi of each user?
[01:45] <mpt> Kmos, it should be already
[01:45] <LaserJock> it is now
[01:45] <mpt> try uploading one and see
[01:46] <Kmos> i've one
[01:46] <Kmos> let's check my page
[01:47] <mpt> kiko, I think bug 89183 should be Critical, because it's quite common, and appears to prevent people from using Launchpad (though they can get around it with URL-hacking, that's not obvious). What do you think?
[01:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89183 in launchpad "beta URLs don't redirect to production if person is not in beta team" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89183
[01:47] <LaserJock> +1 for that
[01:48] <LaserJock> I keep forgetting when I'm pasting
[01:49] <dsas> heh ditto.
[01:50] <Kmos> https://beta.launchpad.net/~gothicx/
[01:50] <Kmos> it's on the right
[01:56] <Kmos> i think yes :)
[03:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93565 in malone "Launchpad compresses white-space in middle of input" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93565
[03:22] <nowhere_man> I did not follow any news about it, so I don't know: has LP's source code been released?
[03:24] <jamesh> nowhere_man: no.
[03:24] <jamesh> nowhere_man: we've released a few of the base components (e.g. the CVS/Subversion import code), but probably not the bits you are aftrer
[03:26] <nowhere_man> OK, is there any long-term plan for a release?
[03:28] <jamesh> nowhere_man: I can't give you an answer better than what's in the faq: https://launchpad.net/faq
[03:29] <nowhere_man> oh sorry, I didn't see there's a FAQ (LP is quite unresponsive at the moment)
[03:29] <nowhere_man> I'll check it, thanks
[03:33] <Kmos> cya tomorrow
[05:56] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93585 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse atom feeds expose vostok hostname" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93585
[06:49] <lifeless> review meeting in 10
[07:01] <lifeless> review team meeting
[07:02] <spiv> Oh, already.
[07:02] <lifeless> 5pm
[07:02] <jamesh> kind of
[07:03] <BjornT> hi
[07:04] <lifeless>     *
[07:04] <lifeless>       Roll call
[07:04] <lifeless>     *
[07:04] <lifeless>       Next meeting
[07:04] <lifeless>     *
[07:04] <lifeless>       New raw SQL coding standard - RobertCollins
[07:04] <lifeless>     *
[07:04] <lifeless>       Queue status.
[07:04] <lifeless> meh
[07:04] <lifeless> that sucked
[07:06] <lifeless> anyhow, good to see we're all here
[07:06] <lifeless> so, next meeting, one week, same time ?
[07:06] <spiv> I like this time.
[07:06] <BjornT> i can't make it next week, i'll be travelling at that time.
[07:07] <lifeless> BjornT: are you not travelling a reasonable delta from this time? or the day
[07:09] <BjornT> lifeless: i'll probably take the whole monday off as a holiday. if not, i could probably start working at 0900UTC
[07:11] <lifeless> W
[07:11] <lifeless> We'll hold it without you, thats fine;
[07:11] <lifeless> just add your apologies :)
[07:11] <BjornT> sure :)
[07:12] <lifeless> so, new coding standard - has that been resolved on the list ?
[07:12] <lifeless> or is it still in debate ?
[07:13] <BjornT> i think it's been more or less resolved, hasn't it?
[07:13] <spiv> I wonder if we can apply the randomise order hack to non-SQLObject SELECT queries?
[07:14] <BjornT> basically, make sure that tests get a reliable order. if the ui needs the same order, place the order by in sql, otherwise sort the results in the tests.
[07:14] <lifeless> yeah, I think that was consensus
[07:14] <jamesh> that's the rule of thumb I use
[07:14] <lifeless> I've added roughly that to the LaunchpadHackingFAQ
[07:14] <lifeless> perhaps one of you could see if it parses right ?
[07:14] <jamesh> i.e. don't test the order of a result set unless the order of the result set is worth testing
[07:15] <lifeless> jamesh: thats a good way to phrase it
[07:15] <spiv> brb, phone
[07:17] <lifeless> in a related thing, rinchen added this to the tipsforreveiwers: 'Please make sure that fmt:date and fmt:datetime becomes the standard usage everywhere, UNLESS there is a really good argument for just using fmt:datetime.'
[07:17] <lifeless> I can't parse that properly, I'm guessing there was a transcription error somewhere.
[07:17] <lifeless> anyone know more ?
[07:17] <jamesh> Mark sent an email about this
[07:17] <BjornT> yeah, he probably meant that we should use the new formatters sabdfl added
[07:18] <jamesh> but he was suggesting fmt:approximatedate, iirc
[07:18] <BjornT> fmt:approximatedate and fmt:displaydate
[07:18] <lifeless> jamesh: perhaps you can ensure that https://launchpad.canonical.com/DatetimeUsageGuide documents this ?
[07:19] <lifeless> and then we can remove the code policy from tips for reviewers
[07:19] <lifeless> so that we have policy for date time in the one place :)
[07:19] <jamesh> good idea
[07:20] <jamesh> Joey also posted an email about "tips for reviewers - review implementation for consistency across Pillars"
[07:20] <jamesh> I am not sure what that means though
[07:20] <lifeless> Yeah
[07:20] <lifeless> neither am I, or stub.
[07:20] <lifeless> I've mailed him directly explaining that I'm confused, and added a note about that.
[07:20] <jamesh> maybe we'll get clarification when he starts work today
[07:21] <lifeless> I noticed the wiki updates on saturday, hopefuly I wasn't too abrupt in my emails :). It felt a little weird to see several in-strange-place-hard-to-understand updates happening all at once.
[07:21] <jamesh> I'm guessing it is along the lines of "if it works for distributions, it should work for products"
[07:21] <jamesh> and vice versa
[07:22] <lifeless> so whole swathes of the ui don't hold that true
[07:22] <spiv> back.
[07:22] <lifeless> i.e. branches are asymmetric
[07:22] <lifeless> and bugs
[07:22] <jamesh> yep
[07:22] <jamesh> bugs work for products and distros
[07:22] <lifeless> and distroreleases
[07:22] <lifeless> but not projects
[07:23] <BjornT> bugs work for projects
[07:23] <jamesh> distroreleases are roughly equivalent to product series
[07:23] <lifeless> do they? for some reason I thought that you could not target a bug at a project, only a product
[07:23] <jamesh> that's true
[07:23] <jamesh> you can list the bugs for a project though
[07:23] <lifeless> right
[07:24] <BjornT> lifeless: sure. you can't target a bug to a project, but there's is a 'report a bug' on the project page
[07:24] <lifeless> I don't mean 'are not functional', I mean 'are asymmetric'
[07:24] <jamesh> BjornT: it is missing from the actions portlet
[07:24] <lifeless> which is a break of '"if it works for distributions, it should work for products"'
[07:24] <jamesh> lifeless: well, there isn't really an analogue of projects for distributions
[07:25] <lifeless> jamesh: can I rope you in to check my lphackingfaq update ?
[07:25] <jamesh> distribution is roughly equivalent to product
[07:25] <lifeless> jamesh: distro <-> project distrorelease <-> product :)
[07:25] <lifeless> its kinda morphed from that these days
[07:25] <lifeless> I'm oooold skool
[07:25] <BjornT> what about product series? :)
[07:25] <jamesh> lifeless: I'd say distro <-> product and distrorelease <-> productseries
[07:26] <lifeless> jamesh: I'd have said source package <-> productseries, or something like that.
[07:27] <jamesh> lifeless: you can draw similarities there too, but then I'd say DistributionSourcePackage <-> Product and SourcePackage <-> ProductSeries
[07:28] <lifeless> BjornT: did I miss the minutes for the wednesday review meeting last week ?
[07:29] <BjornT> lifeless: seems like you did. i did send them to launchpad-reviews.
[07:29] <lifeless> BjornT: did you link them to the agenda wiki page ? :)
[07:30] <BjornT> lifeless: ah, i might have forgot that :)
[07:30] <lifeless> BTW they should be sent to launchpad@ as well as launchpad-reviews.
[07:30] <BjornT> ok, didn't know that.
[07:30] <lifeless> SteveA asked for that, so that the whole team knows what reviewers are planning/doing.
[07:30] <BjornT> sounds reasonable
[07:33] <lifeless> ok, review queue status
[07:33] <lifeless> I've not assigned stuff yet today, doing ater ther meeting
[07:33] <lifeless> 27 items
[07:33] <jamesh> I've sucked in the last week, but will send off Mark's review today.
[07:34] <spiv> That's ok, after the meeting I'm planning on powering through all the stuff in my queue.  It's mostly small, and I've already started on david/launchpad/vcs-import-sync-status.
[07:34] <lifeless> 8 more than one week open (up one from last week).
[07:34] <lifeless> ok.
[07:35] <lifeless> I'll do a nag on my thursday if its not significantly improved then
[07:36] <lifeless> ok, I think thats all.
[07:36] <lifeless> jamesh: I'm putting the following down as action item:
[07:36] <lifeless> * Jamesh to check Roberts update of LaunchpadHackingFAQ, and update the DatetimeUsageGuide page to match Marks UI policy (And remove from TipsForReviewers when done).
[07:36] <lifeless> jamesh: thanks
[07:37] <lifeless> 5
[07:37] <jamesh> lifeless: I'm rewriting it to not just refer to Raw SQL
[07:37] <lifeless> jamesh: excellent
[07:37] <spiv> Yes, I think TipsForReviewers ought not repeat things that all devs are expected to know.
[07:37] <lifeless> spiv: right
[07:37] <jamesh> rather note that you need to be more careful of raw SQL, since the randomisation isn't done there
[07:37] <lifeless> I think Rinchen wanted to get the message across
[07:37] <spiv> jamesh: I wonder if we could make that happen, though...
[07:38] <jamesh> spiv: once we switch to $NEWORM, hopefully there will be less reason to use raw SQL ...
[07:38] <lifeless> and isn't aware of how all our documentation sits together
[07:38] <spiv> That's true.
[07:38] <jamesh> although $NEWORM doesn't support randomisation yet
[07:40] <lifeless> we should make that happne
[07:40] <lifeless> :)
[07:40] <jamesh> yep
[07:40] <spiv> We ought to write a test about it, so that $NEWORM won't work for us until we have it ;)
[07:40] <lifeless> sweet
[07:40] <lifeless> what degree of confidence do we want on it ? :)
[07:41] <lifeless> jamesh: ping me tomorrow about your new branches please, I got busy.
[07:47] <jamesh> lifeless: lphackingfaq entry updated
[07:47] <lifeless> thanks!
[08:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93606 in launchpad-bazaar "Better reporting of SFTP permission errors" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93606
[08:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93609 in launchpad-bazaar "Better error messages for bzr lp://" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93609
[10:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93630 in malone ""Binary package hint" is a mysterious term" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93630
[10:17] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93614 in launchpad "OpenPGP keys: Keys pending validation: Never get the e-mail" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93614
[10:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93637 in rosetta ""Your browser languages" doesn't do anything useful" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93637
[11:42] <Nafallo> mrevell: hi!
[11:42] <mrevell> Nafallo: Hi
[11:43] <Nafallo> mrevell: I promise not to take screenshoots :-)
[11:43] <mrevell> Nafallo: Cool, thanks :) I'll add you to the team. When you have a moment, it'd be helpful if you could reply to my email.
[11:44] <mrevell> Nafallo: Okay, you're now in the team!
[11:44] <Nafallo> mrevell: oh, you've sent another one? or just confirm there to? :-)
[11:45] <mrevell> Nafallo: I sent an email asking you to confirm that you won't take screen shots of the beta interface.
[11:45] <mrevell> Nafallo: But I assume that's why you just pinged me here :)
[11:45] <Nafallo> mrevell: sure was. but I can reply aswell ;-)
[11:45] <mrevell> Nafallo: Thanks :)
[11:46] <mrevell> Nafallo: If you have any questions, please ask.
[11:46] <mrevell> Nafallo: You'll automatically be redirected to the beta interface, but you can disable that for two hours at a time, on the standard Launchpad home page
[11:48] <Nafallo> wow
[11:48] <Nafallo> this rocks! :-)
[12:58] <cprov> good morning !
[12:58] <Hobbsee> hiya cprov 
[02:24] <Nafallo> hi again :-)
[02:25] <Nafallo> I'm translating in Rosetta and would like to propose to have the bar with Next and Last etc both on top and on bottom... is that possible? :-)
[02:25] <Nafallo> I have to scroll all over the place if I don't want to make changes now :-P
[02:31] <Kmos> i agrre :)
[02:31] <Kmos> agree
[02:31] <matsubara> Nafallo: bug 52806
[02:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52806 in rosetta "interface: "next" should be at the bottom, too" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/52806
[02:31] <Nafallo> kewl. I'll subscribe then :-)
[03:36] <kiko> ahoy there!
[03:50] <ddaa> ahoy kiko
[03:51] <kiko> how's it going david
[03:51] <ddaa> kiko: can you move https://beta.launchpad.net/debian-cd/main to obsolete-junk, please?
[03:51] <kiko> sure.
[03:51] <ddaa> going well here
[03:51] <ddaa> gnuhello import is live
[03:52] <ddaa> btw, it's better to ask me if you need an import to get done, at the moment it NEEDS manual intervention to go forward
[03:52] <ddaa> and if you just approve it yourself, I may just miss it.
[03:53] <kiko> ddaa, I clicked on the wrong button unfortunately. thanks for pointing that out!
[03:53] <ddaa> btw, why is it that we needed gnuhello imported all of sudden?
[03:53] <kiko> ddaa, SteveA or sabdfl suggested it for a sample project IIRC
[04:04] <sabdfl> i did
[04:06] <geser> any idea who I could poke about bug #87077?
[04:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
[04:08] <matsubara> cprov, bigjools: ^
[04:13] <cprov> matsubara: hi, it's only related with lp-buildd code, infinity should be working on it.
[04:14] <geser> I've mailed infinity about it but it seems he is busy with other things.
[04:16] <popey> lp seems a bit sluggish at the moment
[04:17] <cprov> geser: I see, but he is the one that could help you with this, either requesting fixes in current ubuntu perl or in our chroots. You can also nag archive-admins about it.
[04:17] <popey> just getting the front page is taking well.. a long time
[04:23] <ddaa> I see we just have our first format 6 branch uploaded to launchpad...
[04:30] <popey> something odd going on in launchpad
[04:30] <popey> sometimes it delivers pages fine, sometimes it prompts firefox to want to download pages
[04:31] <ddaa> that would be the gzip problem
[04:31] <popey> "the gzip problem"?
[04:32] <ddaa> popey: are you talking about beta.launchpad.net, or about launchpad.net?
[04:32] <popey> beta
[04:34] <ddaa> popey: next time you have this download prompt, it would be nice if you could dowload it and check what the gunzip command does with it.
[04:34] <popey> i did, its plain text
[04:35] <ddaa> can you put it in a pastebin?
[04:36] <ddaa> we had some problems recently with launchpad serving apparently empty gzipped pages, but that was supposedly fixed on beta, that's why I asked.
[04:37] <ddaa> the problem occurs randomly and is hard to reproduce, so we need as much detail as possible to fix it.
[04:38] <popey> hmm
[04:38] <popey> bunch of nulls at the start of this one
[04:38] <popey> makes it difficult to copy/paste :S
[04:38] <popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/35
[04:38] <popey> there you go
[04:40] <matsubara> popey: could you please add the info to bug 89194?
[04:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89194 in launchpad "LP (regular and beta) sending gzipped, zero byte replies" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89194
[04:40] <ddaa> apparently popey has a different, albeit probably related, problem
[04:42] <popey> how much info do you want attached?
[04:42] <popey> just from HTTP1.1 to <!DOCTYPE ?
[04:43] <ddaa> just upload the whole file as an attachement
[04:43] <popey> ok
[04:43] <ddaa> we're not worried about a few more kb in the librarian :)
[04:44] <popey> heh
[04:47] <popey> ok, added
[04:53] <BenC> Anybody with an lp database magic wand around?
[04:53] <BenC> I need the packages assigned to empty-team reassigned to ubuntu-kernel-team
[04:53] <BenC> and if possible, delete empty-team
[05:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #93765 in launchpad "[beta]  Hackergotchi should have text on the left hand" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93765
[05:36] <sladen> mmm, no launchpad bugs messages for 6hours.  Am I just being exceptionally lucky?
[05:37] <kiko> lifeless, can you check send-bug-notifications on gangotri?
[05:37] <kiko> thanks for reminding me sladen 
[05:48] <Theuni> hmm. is it possible the codebrowser is broken down?
[05:48] <Theuni> loading http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~refreshng-dev/refreshng/dev takes a long time and then some apache decides it doesn't want to wait any longer
[05:49] <SteveA> Theuni: we need to upgrade the bzr and pack the knits on there
[05:49] <SteveA> which will make it work faster
[05:49] <Theuni> ah hi SteveA 
[05:49] <SteveA> so watch out for some changes there over the next week or two
[05:50] <Theuni> alright
[05:50] <Theuni> btw: how are you doing your deployment/development with launchpad?
[05:50] <oojah> sladen: I think you're just causing trouble to be honest...
[05:50] <Theuni> do you use something like buildout or are you interested in using it?
[05:51] <SteveA> we use a .deb package with dependencies for things we need to have installed
[05:52] <SteveA> and nested bzr trees for stuff we customize
[05:52] <SteveA> BenC: hi.  did you get your request seen to?
[05:52] <BenC> SteveA: Not that I'm aware of :)
[05:53] <SteveA> how many packages are we talking about?
[05:53] <SteveA> I can do it using the launchpad ui for you, but I'd rather leave it to stub to use the database directly.
[05:54] <Theuni> SteveA: Interesting. Jim is currently looking into using buildout to package software up as RPMs to use those for distribution. I was wondering whether you guys would be interested in having a similar thing to do that for .deb. I'm interested in this and wonder if other people are as well.
[05:54] <BenC> SteveA: like ~15
[05:55] <SteveA> BenC: mail me a list of launchpad URLs or names of packages, and I'll do it
[05:55] <BenC> SteveA: email addr?
[05:55] <SteveA> steve @ canonical
[05:56] <SteveA> extra points for a GPG sig ;-)
[05:56] <SteveA> Theuni: I don't really understand the use-case for it
[05:57] <kiko-fud> SteveA, the use case for packaging python into debs?  really?
[05:57] <SteveA> I understand python eggs -> .debs
[05:58] <BenC> SteveA: Sent and signed, thanks :)
[05:58] <Theuni> Right. A project infrastructure might contain more things than just eggs though. E.g. files that go to /etc/ or somewhere else.
[05:59] <SteveA> BenC: I have a couple of calls, but I'll attend to these later today.  Let me know if it's urgent and you need these sooner
[05:59] <Theuni> buildout projects maintain this information and can keep them within a central sandbox e.g. for developing or you could make it store them centrally.
[05:59] <SteveA> Theuni: that's part of the skill of making .deb packages for Ubuntu -- knowing the right policies on what goes where, and how to install and uninstall and upgrade well
[05:59] <Theuni> however, sysadmins seem to like getting software into production not via version control but packaged stuff.
[05:59] <BenC> SteveA: It's important, but not a case for dropping other things
[06:00] <SteveA> BenC: ok, have it for you in a few hrs
[06:00] <kiko-fud> let me see if I can get lunch here
[07:16] <SteveA> Theuni: hi
[07:16] <SteveA> Theuni: > See the dump attached.
[07:16] <SteveA> ???
[07:25] <siretart> is it possible to set tags with the MaloneEmailInterface?
[07:25] <kiko> siretart, it's not, no. 
[07:25] <siretart> k
[07:25] <kiko> there's a bug filed on it but this is requested rather infrequently
[07:27] <ddaa> Theuni: it looks like the attachement is missing :)
[07:33] <LaserJock> kiko: I'm guessing we'll be doing it quite a bit
[07:33] <kiko> LaserJock, time to motu it
[07:33] <LaserJock> we're launched a "tag the Universe" campaigne
[07:34] <LaserJock> we've also got 450+ request-for-package bugs to file/tag
[07:39] <Lumiere> imo tags should be part of the affects area
[07:39] <Lumiere> not part of the description
[07:39] <kiko> Lumiere, that's complicated.
[07:40] <Lumiere> I know
[07:40] <Lumiere> but I'm doing the same thing as LaserJock 
[07:40] <Lumiere> and there are a LOT of clicks to do that in Malone
[07:44] <LaserJock> Lumiere: if you had lots of tags wouldn't it get cluttered fast?
[07:45] <Lumiere> it's still just a space separated list 
[07:48] <kiko> I think Lumiere actually means he'd like them to be editable inside the bug page
[07:48] <kiko> instead of on a separate page
[07:48] <kiko> not that they'd fit in with the affects targets.
[07:50] <LaserJock> ah
[07:50] <LaserJock> I see
[07:50] <LaserJock> that'd be cool for sure
[07:53] <Lumiere> yes
[07:53] <Lumiere> because the more you try and use them
[07:54] <Lumiere> the less you want to have to click a bunch to find/edit it
[08:27] <swimmerino88> hi to evrebody!i have a simple question...i have registered me in launch...now what do i have to do to become an ubuntu tester?
[08:28] <kiko> swimmerino88, join #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu-devel
[08:29] <swimmerino88> ok
[08:30] <stgraber> swimmerino88: if you want to test iso, I'd suggest you to join #ubuntu-iso
[08:31] <swimmerino88> stgraber: no my idea is to test the the unstable ubuntu distros
[08:31] <stgraber> swimmerino88: that's what's done by the ubuntu testing team on the channel I just gave you
[08:32] <stgraber> swimmerino88: testing Feisty and reporting bug
[08:32] <swimmerino88> stgraber:ok thank you!
[08:33] <stgraber> swimmerino88: np