[12:14] <sladen> delrey: however, the fact that you've raised it, may mean there is a market.  The difficulty might be finding a mentor with suitable knowledge /and/ willing
[12:51] <BenC> sladen: This cpu thing is going to have to be fixed in userspace
[12:51] <BenC> sladen: The reason we lose cpufreq reference is because the kernel hot-unplugs the cpu before suspending
[12:51] <BenC> sladen: So all ref's to it are removed
[12:52] <BenC> userspace needs to respond to cpu hot plug/unplug and do something with it
[12:52] <BenC> like restore scaling governor and such
[01:09] <BenC> sladen: Also, if you're going to help with kernel bugs (and I really appreciate it), can you read over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies
[01:27] <sladen> BenC: haha, *grin* it makes sense now.
[01:33] <dsas> BenC: Could you make the bugsquad aware of that page if you haven't already? ubuntu-bugsquad@lists.ubuntu.com
[01:39] <sladen> dsas: could you? :)  If you send it and CC to BenC you know that it'll get done!
[01:40] <dsas> sladen: Sure, just checking it hadn't already been sent there. I'm behind on my email.
[01:41] <dsas> oh, it's already been to devel-announce. I'll forward it on.
[01:46] <BenC> dsas: Thanks
[01:49] <dsas> BenC: no problem.
[02:47] <sladen> wah  "katu kernel: [204078.636000]  Using specific hotkey driver"
[02:50] <jdong> sladen: mine says that too....
[02:50] <jdong> sladen: I think it enables some hidden cheat codes :)
[02:56] <Fujitsu> Mine does that in all its terminals sometimes too :(
[03:04] <kylem> jdong, what package version?
[03:06] <jdong> kylem: latest kernel
[03:06] <jdong> kylem: ever since like -9
[03:06] <jdong> [   19.656000]  Using specific hotkey driver
[03:06] <jdong> it will put that on all terminals if bootup is fast enough
[03:08] <Fujitsu> I've had it since around -9 too, and it appeared several times over the course of a few days (no reboots).
[03:09] <Fujitsu> I see sladen has filed a bug with the solution :)
[03:09] <kylem> jdong, odd, i pushed a fix for that to git last week.
[03:09] <jdong> interesting.... well it still shows up in -20 oddly
[03:09] <jdong> err, make that -12
[03:12] <kylem> fucked up.
[03:12] <sladen> Fujitsu: jdong: can you confirm it
[03:13] <jdong> sladen: yeah I can confirm ; 
[03:14] <kylem> what bug #
[03:14] <Fujitsu> Bug #93564
[03:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 93564 in linux-source-2.6.20 "printk("Using specific hotkey driver\n"); has no prefix" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93564
[03:14] <BenC> patches welcome :)
[03:14] <jdong> lol
[03:14] <jdong> well in that case I'll just live with it :D
[03:15] <kylem> uh.
[03:15] <BenC> I'll fix it real quick
[03:15] <kylem> i fixed it already.
[03:15] <BenC> will be in release, not in beta though
[03:15] <kylem> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=398c3db849ca235addc3bc16b8c683f180518661
[03:15] <BenC> kylem: Oh, you're fast
[03:15] <kylem> no.
[03:15] <kylem> 4 days ago.
[03:15] <kylem> KERN_INFO shouldn't be broadcast by syslogd.
[03:15] <BenC> ah, then it's in -12
[03:15] <jdong> BenC: it's happenin with -12
[03:16] <jdong> at least it did once....
[03:16] <jdong> hmm
[03:16] <BenC> jdong: I can't see how, even the bug report shows that the printk line has KERN_INFO prefix
[03:16] <kylem> maybe something else is printing it as well.
[03:16] <Fujitsu> I had it happen yesterday, and I'd upgraded and rebooted a day prior.
[03:17] <BenC> the new kernel just came out today
[03:17] <kylem> eeentaresting.
[03:18] <BenC> linux-source-2.6.20-2.6.20$ rgrep "Using specific" *
[03:18] <BenC> drivers/acpi/hotkey.c:          printk(KERN_INFO "Using specific hotkey driver\n");
[03:18] <BenC> so it's fixed
[03:18] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
[03:18] <kylem> ah.
[03:18] <kylem> possibly sladen didn't reboot, but had fetched new src.
[03:19] <jdong> yeah perhaps I'm imagining it too... never mind :)
[03:19] <BenC> random people really need to stop marking bugs as "Confirmed" without Importance and Assignee :/
[03:19] <BenC> Ah, that was Fujitsu :)
[03:20] <kylem> uhm. on a thought.
[03:20] <Fujitsu> BenC: Does your new policy forbid that?
[03:20] <kylem> oh. nm. it includes timestamp. i was thinking there might be some kind of user program. oh well.
[03:20] <BenC> Fujitsu: I can't see it making any sense to Confirm a bug without having a priority set, and it being assigned
[03:20] <Fujitsu> ...
[03:20] <Fujitsu> That makes more sense for In Progress.
[03:21] <BenC> No
[03:21] <Fujitsu> But not Confirmed.
[03:21] <BenC> we have different teams for kernel bugs
[03:21] <BenC> the "Confirmed, assigned to team" state is used as a list of where to got to work on bugs
[03:21] <kylem> uhm.
[03:21] <BenC> a team member pulls the bug into "In Progress" and assigns it to themselves
[03:22] <BenC> kylem: mainly, we have ubuntu-kernel-team, ubuntu-audio (crimsun)
[03:23] <kylem> sorry, the uhm, was another thought.
[03:23] <BenC> Fujitsu: For kernel bugs, Confirmed == assigned to ubuntu-kernel-team, for future reference
[03:23] <BenC> kylem: ah :)
[03:23] <Fujitsu> But it's your call.
[03:23] <BenC> exactly
[03:24] <BenC> Fujitsu: wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelBugPolicies...you have to understand, kernel bugs are very different than bugs on other packages, we have a team that needs to coordinate, and we have a large incoming stream of bug reports
[03:25] <BenC> we need policies like that to keep things straight
[03:25] <BenC> KernelTeamBugPolicies I meant
[03:25] <Fujitsu> Yep, I can see that...
[03:31] <twb> Howdy.  I'm building customized livecds based on Edgy; my script in /etc/rcS.d doesn't appear to be run automatically at boot time.  What am I doing wrong?
[03:33] <jdong> BenC: oops sorry then I've been guilty of using Confirmed incorrectly in the past, too. I apologize and defend myself on account of ignorance :D
[03:34] <BenC> jdong: It's no problem, but to be honest, it's a new policy that just started being enforced :)
[03:34] <BenC> I've been trying to go through the bug reports today and clean things up
[03:35] <BenC> it's really hard to get a handle on them without some consistency
[03:35] <jdong> yeah, that's for sure
[05:59] <LeeJunFan> hrm, there seems to be a missing /etc/init.d/mountnfs - mount-bootclean mentions it as a requirement, and my nfs mounts don't get done at bootup.
[06:07] <fabbione> morning
[06:09] <Hobbsee> heya fabbione!
[06:09] <fabbione> yo yo
[06:10] <fabbione> what kind of stuff? :)
[06:11] <lifeless> be careful what you wish for
[06:13] <Hobbsee> i'm sure i coudl find something...
[06:14] <fabbione> well find it :) otherwise i will start to work for real ;)
[06:15] <Hobbsee> fabbione: fix all the bugs in ubuntu by 5pm.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:16] <fabbione> Hobbsee: isn't bug #1 enough by 2pm? i have a meeting then ;)
[06:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[06:17] <Hobbsee> fabbione: heh.  maybe
[06:20] <fabbione> :)
[06:30] <matia1> /matias
[06:33] <doko> good morning
[06:36] <Hobbsee> heya doko 
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> I have a question.
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> The Web host I work at uses Fedora Core but constantly has problems because it goes EOL
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> FC4 for example is currently EOL, vuln at highest patch level in many instances
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> It's come to my attention that Ubuntu has 1.5 year support, but Dapper has a 5 year LTS cycle
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> When Dapper EOLs, will the coinciding release have a 5 year LTS cycle or a normal 1.5 year support cycle?
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> It just seems like an interesting idea
[07:10] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: I think it depends on when the next LTS release is
[07:10] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  is there some sort of criteria?
[07:10] <bluefoxicy> Like some magic has to happen that makes the developers want to do it?
[07:10] <LaserJock> when the free software world looks good
[07:10] <jdong> LaserJock: I'd logically expect another LTS to be available before Canonical decides to unplug dapper.
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> I'd not expect two to overlap because then you'd have 5 distros to support :)
[07:11] <giftnudel> anyhow, there should be an option to update from one LTS to the next LTS
[07:11] <jdong> bluefoxicy: well I'd expect a smooth upgrade path _somewhere_ :)
[07:12] <LaserJock> well, you can imagine what makes sense
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> smooth upgrade paths are important
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> half the time when we upgrade things the shit hits the fan as hard as it can
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> BOOM broken server
[07:12] <LaserJock> but I've been told several times that the LTS releases aren't done as a time release
[07:12] <giftnudel> bluefoxicy: the fc is probably intentional, as you are supposed to buy the commercial product from redhat, right?
[07:12] <Fujitsu> I'd except Feisty+2 to be LTS, to allow a reasonable changeover period.
[07:12] <Fujitsu> *expect
[07:12] <Fujitsu> Otherwise desktops only have 6 months to change.
[07:12] <jdong> LaserJock: right, but I dont' think Canonical would strand Dapper EOL without another LTS around...
[07:13] <jdong> LaserJock: after all, they _do_ have corporate customers, no?
[07:13] <bluefoxicy> I've had much more luck with Ubuntu than Fedora in that regard; though I've been told that FC6 upgrades from FC4/5 smoothly (Finally; FC4->5 destroys your system and you have to spend 2 hours fixing it)
[07:13] <bluefoxicy> giftnudel:  probably.  FC is community supported though.  It's like Ubuntu but not as good.  :)
[07:13] <jdong> bluefoxicy: 6-7 won't yum... gotta use Anaconda
[07:13] <LaserJock> jdong: I would think so but they have 5 years for the server
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  balls.
[07:14] <LaserJock> they have quite a bit of time
[07:14] <jdong> bluefoxicy: but I've managed to yum-ify a lot of Fedora upgrades :)
[07:14] <jdong> bluefoxicy: no, not balls, just recklessness :)
[07:14] <jdong> bluefoxicy: did I tell you I booted Ubuntu off ntfs-3g once?
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> ...
[07:14] <jdong> bluefoxicy: supported upgrade options are for sissies :)
[07:14] <jdong> lol
[07:16] <jdong> and I SWEAR the system runs faster...
[07:16] <bluefoxicy> now that you've defragged it?  :P
[07:16] <jdong> guess it doesn't hurt to refresh a 1.5-year-old ext3....
[07:16] <jdong> bluefoxicy: that might be ;-)
[07:17] <bluefoxicy> my /home is xfs :/
[07:17] <jdong> bluefoxicy: hmm... XFS has always rubbed me kinda wrong as a general-purpose FS
[07:17] <bluefoxicy> reiserfs :P
[07:18] <jdong> I use it for my media encoding drive
[07:18] <jdong> bluefoxicy: actually I did that for a few years :)
[07:18] <bluefoxicy> reiserfs is trash
[07:18] <jdong> it didn't work out too badly
[07:18] <jdong> esp. back when ext3 was dog slow
[07:18] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[07:18] <bluefoxicy> it was the first journaling file system I was aware of
[07:18] <jdong> yeah for sure
[07:18] <jdong> and remarkably fast at its time
[07:18] <bluefoxicy> I suppose jfs predates it by a billion years
[07:18] <bluefoxicy> jfs is trash too though
[07:18] <jdong> its Linux port wasn't stable at that time
[07:19] <bluefoxicy> if you go down it'll be like ACK
[07:19] <jdong> reiserfs was the first Linux stable journaling fs
[07:19] <bluefoxicy> and never come back to life, ever, even after a fsck or log replay
[07:19] <jdong> "stable" being a relative term of course
[07:19] <jdong> bluefoxicy: the thing that got me with JFS... you must mount ro, fsck, remount rw after uncleanness
[07:19] <jdong> bluefoxicy: which doesn't happen automatically for /home
[07:19] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  I tried JFS last in Breezy.
[07:20] <jdong> bluefoxicy: I used it in Breezy too...
[07:20] <bluefoxicy> I cycled power 3 times randomly and it could not recover, fsck said it was clean and mount said "OSHIT CAN'T DO THIS IT'S FUXED HARD!"
[07:20] <jdong> that was my last runin with it too....
[07:20] <jdong> bluefoxicy: I used it on an old computer... 33MHz 486/DX
[07:20] <bluefoxicy> O_O
[07:20] <jdong> where every other fs but ext2 was absurdly slow
[07:20] <bluefoxicy> dude, ubuntu doesn't run on its minimum specs, give it up
[07:20] <jdong> like apt-get upgrade of 1 package was 30 minutes long
[07:20] <jdong> bluefoxicy: hey hey it runs vim just fine :P
[07:20] <bluefoxicy> 192MB of RAM == kill GNOME before running Ubiquity.. in fact make Ubiquity your WM
[07:21] <jdong> bluefoxicy: it's a fully console system
[07:21] <bluefoxicy> ah
[07:21] <jdong> bluefoxicy: warty warthog actually :)
[07:21] <jdong> never upgraded it past that
[07:21] <bluefoxicy> I actually installed GUI ubuntu dapper on a 350MHz AMD K6-2
[07:21] <bluefoxicy> with 192MB of RAM
[07:21] <bluefoxicy> ubiquity kept OOMing
[07:21] <jdong> bluefoxicy: a 400MHz celeron, 256MB RAM + Ubuntu GNOME was our standard-issue robotics computer
[07:21] <jdong> our corp sponsor had STACKS of them lying around
[07:22] <jdong> so we just took them, Ubuntu, and handed out free laptops to all team members interested in programming
[07:22] <bluefoxicy> Eventually I shut down everything-- cups, hplip, gnome, gdm, lvm/evms, mdadm, everything
[07:22] <jdong> worked great.
[07:22] <bluefoxicy> did a startx with ubiquity as the only running process
[07:22] <bluefoxicy> it barely made it.
[07:22] <jdong> ha Ubiquity is pushing it :)
[07:23] <jdong> the alternate installer works with about like 24-38MB of RAM
[07:23] <bluefoxicy> If I was wiping the disk it would have been fine, I'd have made the swap partition; but I was resizing a win98 partition
[07:23] <jdong> actually that systme had 24MB RAM and it failed
[07:23] <jdong> so I installed Ubuntu from another system and transfered the HDD
[07:23] <bluefoxicy> debootstrap
[07:23] <jdong> naw had other computers -- easier :)
[07:24] <jdong> and you have no idea how painful extracting debs is
[07:24] <jdong> :)
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> damn small linux
[07:24] <jdong> reading database.....
[07:24] <jdong> (4 hours later)
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> share drive as ntfs
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> install to that
[07:24] <jdong> lol
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> err, as nfs
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> not ntfs wtf
[07:24] <jdong> I've done the NTFS thing too :P
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> I want Ubuntu/MINIX
[07:25] <jdong> haha
[07:26] <bluefoxicy> barely any hardware support, networking... only IDE...
[07:26] <bluefoxicy> but if you're lucky you'll have GNOME with no sound on an ne2000 NIC 
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> I think it'd be just awesome enough to cause a growth spurt in Minix development.  Maybe.  Hey I love the pure microkernel design, what can I say?
[07:28] <LaserJock> ah Minix, the first non-MS OS I ever used :-)
[07:28] <LaserJock> Debian took too many floppy disks ;-)
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> Minix 3 is up now
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> it's actually taken on its full form
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> Minix and Minix2 both represented research; Minix3 capitalizes on that, the effort now aims to produce a desktop-ready OS
[07:33] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  have you seen the crazy shit I've been throwing on the wiki?
[07:33] <bluefoxicy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSecurityCore
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> I'm actually leaning mostly towards OSSIM.......
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> it doesn't matter though, it's not like anyone will actually do it
[08:30] <pitti> Good morning
[08:31] <Seveas> hi pitti 
[08:32] <Seveas> pitti, do you happen to have a few spare cycles today?
[08:32] <pitti> hi Seveas 
[08:32] <pitti> Seveas: probably not, things are just a matter of priority :) so what's up/
[08:32] <pitti> ?
[08:33] <Seveas> I have 3 non-invasive but important patches to various usplash themes that should go in before beta. They fix color issues
[08:33] <Seveas> I asked Mithrandir, but being release manager he had no time :)
[08:35] <Seveas> pitti, would you have time to apply & upload them? The only thing they do is change pallette indexes from "completely broken to the point where they may cause segfaults" to "sane and looking ok"
[08:38] <pitti> Seveas: sure, I can do that, as long as this doesn't interfere with kwwii's work
[08:38] <pitti> Seveas: where's the new package?
[08:38] <Seveas> kwwii already cheered for doing it :)
[08:38] <Seveas> pitti, http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors.patch http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors-e.patch http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/usplashcolors-x.patch
[08:38] <Seveas> patch for usplash-theme-ubuntu edubuntu-artwork and xubuntu-artwork
[08:39] <pitti> looks sane enough
[08:40] <pitti> Seveas: any particular reason why you changed hex to dec?
[08:40] <Seveas> the hex was a silly mistake and caused the darkblue-text-on-black-background
[08:41] <Seveas> where it said 0x144, I meant 144
[08:41] <Seveas> etc...
[08:41] <Seveas> so addressing portions of memory possibly not under our control (aka segfault...)
[08:41] <Seveas> well, possible segfault
[08:42] <Seveas> gotta go to work, if you want to know more, please drop me a mail
[08:43] <pitti> Seveas: a changelog would have been nice, but I'll craft one
[08:54] <mitsuhiko> good morning :)
[09:13] <pitti> cjwatson: funny that d-i moved to -11 kernels one minute after BenC uploaded -12 ;)
[09:17] <pitti> asac: WDYT about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxSupport ?
[09:18] <pitti> asac: our last attempts with backporting stuff to older major releases were pretty much disastrous; were there some changes upstream or in the inter-distro porting teams which would make it easier now?
[09:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: I uploaded usplash-theme-ubuntu and xubuntu-artwork with Seveas' color palette indices fixes; patch looks sane, usplash still looks sane, edubuntu-artwork already has the patch applied
[09:45] <Mithrandir> pitti: coolie, thanks.
[09:56] <cjwatson> pitti: yeah, I've just been playing catch-up - unfortunately somebody (possibly me, I forget) remove-package.py'ed the old kernels before d-i had moved away from them, so all the d-i-based CDs broke, and I was trying to get them functional again
[09:57] <heno> does the "No kernel modules were found" problem in alternate/server have a bug number?
[09:57] <heno> fabio said this was a known issue
[09:57] <Mithrandir> needs a d-i upload, probably?
[09:57] <cjwatson> heno: there is never a point filing a bug about that one
[09:57] <seb128> morning
[09:58] <cjwatson> yes, it should be sorted as of today's CDs, if not I'll notice
[09:58] <heno> ok, we were just discussing it in the testing forums
[09:58] <cjwatson> heno: "No kernel modules were found" means that the kernel version in the installer seed is out of sync with that in the version of d-i on the CD, or that the kernel version in the installer seed is no longer in the archive
[09:59] <cjwatson> ah, I need to munge the archive for the new d-i
[09:59] <heno> god news is that the volunteer testers are actually finding things :)
[09:59] <heno> right
[10:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: compiz> not needed for beta, right?
[10:01] <cjwatson> I'll rebuild the CDs after this publisher run
[10:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: not sure, mdz mailed me to get this patch in
[10:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: what about gdm?
[10:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: it fixes the .desktop category, I would accept it
[10:04] <Mithrandir> BenC: your grub upload in unapproved is incorrect; grub does not work correctly with gcc 4.1 without any changes.
[10:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: 'k, accepted.
[10:04] <seb128> thank you
[10:04] <fabbione> what kind of info are usually required to file a bug on Network Manager? /etc/network/interface?
[10:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: could you approve gedit also?
[10:05] <seb128> Mithrandir: it just lists "upgrade" as a known prerm case
[10:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: oh, sure.
[10:05] <seb128> gtkhtml3.14 is a one liner which fix the emoticons use
[10:05] <Mithrandir> fabbione: what is the problem?
[10:06] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it breaks my static ipv6 setup...
[10:06] <seb128> and xchat-gnome would be nice to accept, since it's not on the CD anyway ...
[10:06] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ifup brings up the interface correctly.. nm restarts it without ipv6 
[10:06] <Mithrandir> fabbione: feel free to file a bug, I doubt it'll be fixed without a patch though.
[10:07] <fabbione> Mithrandir: well it's a regression from edgy/dapper... but feeeehhh
[10:07] <Mithrandir> and yes, a copy of interfaces(5) is fine.
[10:10] <fabbione> now the most funny part...
[10:10] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/mount
[10:10] <fabbione> does anybody have a clue on why /var/run and /var/lock are mounted a few gazillion times?
[10:11] <fabbione> if i run mount -a again, it will remounted again a few times...
[10:11] <pitti> hm, not here...
[10:12] <fabbione> pitti: i noticed only today with the very latest updates 
[10:12] <Mithrandir> seb128: xchat-gnome; you want that in too?
[10:12] <fabbione> and machine can't reboot/halt.. hangs at sending KILL signal to processes (but it seems to be a known bug already)
[10:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: <seb128> and xchat-gnome would be nice to accept, since it's not on the CD anyway ...
[10:12] <seb128> up to you
[10:13] <seb128> it can wait after beta if you think it's better, the fixes are easy enough though
[10:13] <Mithrandir> ah, ok, seems safe enough
[10:13] <seb128> cool
[10:13] <siretart> is it possible to see what's in the unapproved queue in launchpad for edgy-proposed?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> siretart: yes
[10:14] <siretart> how?
[10:15] <Mithrandir> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
[10:15] <Mithrandir> look in the unapproved list, and the "proposed" pocket.
[10:16] <siretart> hm. then somehow my upload of libaqbanking got lost
[10:17] <siretart> I got this email from launchpad, but cannot find it anywhere: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11009/
[10:18] <Mithrandir> hm, it's in the queue on drescher just fine.
[10:20] <Mithrandir> siretart: can you use 3ubuntu1~proposed1 or something like that as the version number instead, please?
[10:21] <siretart> Mithrandir: okay. Willdo. shall I reupload right now?
[10:21] <Adri2000> 3ubuntu0.1~proposed1 even, no?
[10:23] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: *shrug*; doesn't really matter, given that 2.0.0-3 is in edgy, 2.2.3-3 is in feisty.
[10:23] <Mithrandir> siretart: yes, please.
[10:24] <siretart> uploaded
[10:25] <siretart> Mithrandir: sorry for having it uploaded with the wrong version number in the first place, but was this the cause that it doesn't show up in /+queue?
[10:27] <jvw> ooi, why the /+foo type of urls in so many of the launchpad urls etc?
[10:27] <jvw> (I mean the '+')
[10:27] <Mithrandir> siretart: no, those things are unrelated.
[10:27] <siretart> k
[10:28] <siretart> jvw: I suspect because LP is a conglomeration of zope applications
[10:28] <jvw> ah, that's a zope-ism? Never really worked with zope either
[10:28] <cjwatson> jvw: ask #launchpad, I guess; my best guess is that since a lot of Launchpad is organised as a taxonomy, they needed something to identify reserved names
[10:29] <cjwatson> compare /ubuntu/feisty and /ubuntu/+queue
[10:29] <cjwatson> if it were /ubuntu/queue then you couldn't create an Ubuntu release called 'queue'
[10:29] <cjwatson> (silly example, but)
[10:30] <jvw> right, yeah. It does solve a namespace issue that way
[10:39] <doko> pitti: did you get any negative feedback about your python2.5 patch? if not I would like to apply it to the python2.4 package as well
[10:40] <pitti> doko: no, not so far
[10:40] <pitti> doko: I'm still waiting for an upstream response
[11:01] <dholbach> hellas
[11:28] <ogra> pitti, i thought about that we should probably see how we avoid the xserver probing completely, the flashing screen might trick users into thinking the new driver is in effect immediately ...
[11:28] <pitti> ogra: I just fixed it to not automatically probe screen resolutions
[11:28] <pitti> that might help?
[11:29] <ogra> hopefully ... what exactly did you do ? i could need it for ltsp as well
[11:30] <pitti> ogra: I remember xserver-xorg/autodetect_{monitor,mouse}, set it to false, reconfigure, and restore the previous values
[11:30] <ogra> ah
[11:57] <cjwatson> heno: current images should have that kernel modules problem fixed
[11:58] <heno> cjwatson: ok, cool. I'll ask people to confirm it during testing
[11:58] <termitor> hello, quelqu'un parle un peut francais , c pour un probleme de depots , enfin de cron 
[11:59] <termitor> so , ubuntu use a cron for make the maj list of packages , and my depot is explose under this mass ask
[12:00] <termitor> it's possible to set a varaible time for the cron of depot ? is most beter for everybody , i'm thinl
[12:00] <termitor> thinl
[12:00] <termitor> thinl
[12:00] <termitor> sorry , think (arf)
[12:01] <termitor> s/depot/repository
[12:03] <Enola_Gay> Hi all, it seems that the hpijs-ppds package is missing in Feisty. Otherwise the automatic installation of e.g. HP Photosmart printers doesn't work out of the box HPLIP Toolbox.
[12:03] <Enola_Gay> This bug was confirmed through one of the hplip devs but it seems that it hasn't been fixed until now.
[12:11] <Mithrandir> hpijs-ppds | 2.7.1+1.7.1-1ubuntu2 |        feisty | all
[12:11] <Mithrandir> seems to be in feisty all right.
[12:12] <Enola_Gay> Mithrandir: The package works fine but doesn't seems to be installed by default or is it only a kubuntu problem?
[12:13] <Enola_Gay> I have found a bugreport which points to kubuntu. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/84936 How could I check which packages are installed in Ubuntu by default?
[12:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84936 in kubuntu-meta "hpijs-ppds package does not automatically install in Kubuntu feisty herd 3 install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:15] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, can you nuke a upload i just made to the NEW queue please ? ( emerald )
[12:15] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: sure
[12:15] <imbrandon> thanks
[12:15] <Mithrandir> done
[12:15] <imbrandon> you rock
[12:16] <imbrandon> is it your archive day btw ?
[12:16] <Riddell> Enola_Gay: hpijs-ppds was removed from the ubuntu seed at the request of till
[12:16] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: technically, yes, but I'm in RM mode atm.  If you just have minor stuff, I can do it, but I'd prefer to concentrate on getting beta ready.
[12:17] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, right on , ok
[12:17] <Riddell> Mithrandir: what's up with the i386 images?
[12:17] <imbrandon> moins Riddell 
[12:17] <Mithrandir> Riddell: probably d-i blowup
[12:17] <Riddell> sounds dramatic
[12:18] <Mithrandir> as in, mismatch between d-i kernel and what's in the archive
[12:18] <Mithrandir> or actually, what do you mean what's up with them?  The alternate ones look fine size-wise at least?
[12:18] <Riddell> Enola_Gay: so there's probably a good reason for it, need to ask when he next turns up
[12:19] <Riddell> Mithrandir: alternative ones are there now yes, no live ones still
[12:20] <Enola_Gay> Riddell: Ask whom?
[12:20] <Riddell> Enola_Gay: till
[12:20] <Mithrandir> oh, true, that's just the soyuz failure where it falls over trying to unpack the i386 tar.gz.  We have a fix for it, but I didn't want soyuz to change just before beta so it requires handholding until we have the fix in production.
[12:20] <Enola_Gay> Ok.
[12:22] <Riddell> Mithrandir: how do I get i386 images then?  I have to ask you?
[12:22] <cjwatson> Riddell: I already rebuilt yours
[12:22] <cjwatson> look again
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Riddell: no, I believe Colin is working on it, and you want to wait a little bit still so you get the latest round of fixes.
[12:23] <cjwatson> oh, ok, not the live ones
[12:23] <Enola_Gay> Ok, thanks, cu.
[12:23] <cjwatson> I'll do those now
[12:33] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'd like to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/partman-partitioning.resize2fs.diff and http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/partman-auto.resize2fs.diff; they work for me in simple tests
[12:34] <termitor> where is the file as the time of packages update listing ?
[12:35] <cjwatson> termitor: it's run from /etc/cron.daily/apt, so it's run with the rest of cron.daily out of /etc/crontab
[12:36] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: makes sense, please upload
[12:37] <cjwatson> the only downside is that I think it makes the progress bar situation even worse
[12:38] <cjwatson> but trying to fish progress information out of resize2fs, while theoretically possible, would be a lot of rather delicate code, so I'd rather not
[12:38] <termitor> cjwatson: 6h25 the time is the same for all , it's a problem no ?
[12:38] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: at least not at this point; agreed.  We can always add a machine-readable output mode to resize2fs later.
[12:39] <cjwatson> termitor: sorry, too busy to discuss it now beyond providing a pointer to the information. I would suggest that you should improve your server if it's having problems
[12:40] <thom> cjwatson: it /is/ a valid point - i mentioned it to mvo in MV
[12:40] <cjwatson> we can't easily make the time variable without changing quite a lot of stuff, as right now /etc/crontab is simply a standard conffile shipped in the cron package. You can change it on your machines and it won't be reverted on upgrade
[12:41] <cjwatson> thom: sure, I didn't say "point invalid", I just don't have time right now ...
[12:41] <thom> but yes, we didn't come up with a reasonable fix
[12:41] <cjwatson> and anyway indeed it's mvo's territory :)
[12:42] <thom> portsnap on freebsd writes a random time out the first time it's run and always uses that, iirc
[12:43] <cjwatson> I don't think it makes sense to make cron.daily have a variable time, so /etc/cron.daily/apt would need to be moved out of cron.daily
[12:43] <cjwatson> (cron.daily should run at $obnoxious_local_time_when_you_are_probably_asleep
[12:43] <cjwatson> )
[12:45] <thom> ah! i remember how portsnap works. it's run from cron.daily, but then sleeps n seconds, where n is decided at random the first itme it runs
[12:47] <Treenaks> cjwatson: it runs ay 6:30am for me.. and imho that's too late :)
[12:50] <cjwatson> viviersf: bug 93635 - eh? since when was the swap partition supposed to be bootable? please provide a reference
[12:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 93635 in ubiquity "Guided partitioning doesnt set swap partition as active" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93635
[12:51] <Mithrandir> thom: that's evil wrt cron.daily running with --report
[12:51] <thom> Mithrandir: yeah
[12:51] <thom> it's not nice, but better than many thousand machines clobbering a mirror
[12:51] <Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee 
[12:52] <thom> hey Hobbsee 
[12:52] <maswan> thom: locally, we have a 00-randomsleep cron.* job
[12:53] <viviersf> cjwatson, uswsusp <---- requires the swap partition to be active to allow hibernation to work. You can mark it as a feature cos Mithrandir said it will be in feisty + 1
[12:53] <thom> maswan: yeah
[12:53] <cjwatson> viviersf: that's nuts
[12:53] <ogra> pitti, do you have an overview of the total size of all language packs anywhere ? or do i have to compute that myself from your table ? i still have ~350M free on the server-addon CD of edubuntu 
[12:53] <cjwatson> we should boot through a bootloader, not do crackful things like requiring an active swap partition
[12:54] <cjwatson> on some systems I expect that that would render the main system unbootable
[12:54] <pitti> ogra: sure, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/langpack-size.txt
[12:54] <maswan> because some of the servers contacted by some cron jobs really don't appriciate hundreds of syncronised queries
[12:54] <viviersf> kay cjwatson 
[12:54] <ogra> pitti, yes, that has no overall total ...
[12:54] <pitti> ogra: why not?
[12:55] <ogra> i want a sum at the bottom :)
[12:55] <cjwatson> viviersf: also that's not true with current uswsusp according to the changelog
[12:55] <viviersf> hmmm
[12:55] <pitti> ogra: just look in the last line ('zu')
[12:55] <viviersf> the one in feisty moans about it sigh
[12:55] <pitti> ogra: G+KSum
[12:56] <cjwatson> oh, actually, not clear
[12:56] <cjwatson> viviersf: exactly what is the error message, so that I can grep for it and beat up the correct bit of code?
[12:56] <ogra> pitti, yes, that shows me the summary of the single language ... i want a summary of all langs :) i'll write a script ...
[12:56] <pitti> ogra: no
[12:56] <ogra> no ? 
[12:56] <pitti> ogra: G+K  is Gnome+KDE of the *single* language
[12:57] <ogra> argh, silly me ...
[12:57] <pitti> ogra: ...Sum is the cumulative size of that language and all langs before that
[12:57] <pitti> ogra: IOW, we have 246220438 bytes of langpacks+input support it total
[12:57] <ogra> yep, undestood now
[12:57] <viviersf> cjwatson, ok give a moment to disable that active nonsense and get it
[12:58] <ogra> so that should only eat about 250M cd space 
[12:58] <ogra> sounds like i can ship them all :)
[12:59] <pitti> ogra: heh, just use the regex magic then? :) (/^language-pack-[^-] +$/)
[12:59] <pitti> ogra: same for gnome/kde, of course
[12:59] <ogra> yeah
[01:00] <viviersf> cjwatson, suspend: Could not stat the resume device file
[01:00] <pitti> ogra: well, just /^language-pack-/ is probably enough
[01:00] <ogra> well, i need to exclude the ones that we have in desktop already, germinate wont like duplication i guess
[01:00] <viviersf> cjwatson, when you run dpkg-reconfigure  uswsusp it moans about swap
[01:00] <pitti> ogra: yep, maybe
[01:02] <cjwatson> viviersf: ok, you misunderstood the error
[01:02] <viviersf> eh
[01:03] <cjwatson> viviersf: it doesn't mean active as in "has the active flag set in the partition table"; it means active as in "has been swapon'ed"
[01:03] <asac> pitti: redhat and novell committed to maintain 1.5.0.x for a while
[01:04] <viviersf> cjwatson, :( but the swap file is on :/
[01:04] <cjwatson> viviersf: then it's a uswsusp problem
[01:04] <viviersf> k
[01:04] <cjwatson> swap *file*? it may not be able to handle swap files
[01:04] <cjwatson> only swap partitions
[01:04] <asac> pitti: http://christopher.aillon.org/blog/2006/12/
[01:05] <pitti> asac: ah, thanks
[01:05] <viviersf> cjwatson, it gave an different error earlier, ill reinstall the thing and let you know
[01:05] <cjwatson> viviersf: doesn't look like an installer problem, anyway
[01:05] <viviersf> yeh
[01:05] <viviersf> soz
[01:05] <cjwatson> ogra: germinate couldn't care less about duplication; it warns but that's about it
[01:05] <viviersf> cjwatson, reject it then
[01:06] <cjwatson> viviersf: already done. :)
[01:06] <cjwatson> thanks for the clarification
[01:06] <viviersf> hah kay
[01:06] <ogra> cjwatson, would it install them in both targets even with the warning ? 
[01:06] <ogra> or prefer one ?
[01:07] <cjwatson> ogra: it'll use the innermost (i.e. if something's in both minimal and standard, it'll only put it in standard), or if the two seeds in question don't have such a relationship (e.g. ship and live), it'll put it in both
[01:07] <cjwatson> er, "it'll only put it in minimal", I should have said
[01:08] <ogra> yep, understood 
[01:08] <cjwatson> it's just the same as something from desktop depending on something that's already in standard, really
[01:08] <ogra> well, add-on is slightly different ...
[01:09] <pitti> ogra: I guess in your case it's similar to 'live' and 'ship', i. e. two distinct targets
[01:09] <ogra> it doesnt depend on anything ... 
[01:09] <ogra> i'll just add the regex, lets see what i get ;
[01:09] <ogra> )
[01:09] <cjwatson> ogra: sure it does
[01:09] <cjwatson> see the STRUCTURE file: ship-addon: boot minimal standard desktop server ship
[01:10] <ogra> oh, ok
[01:25] <dholbach> heno, TheMuso: do we want lsr 0.5.0 in for feisty? if so we'd need uvf exception for it
[01:26] <dholbach> ogra: somebody already told you about (yet another) dia release? :-)
[01:27] <ogra> huh ?
[01:27] <ogra> sigh
[01:27] <ogra> i guess that has to wait until after beta
[01:28] <dholbach> ogra: 0.96-pre9
[01:29] <mvo> termitor: yes, its not ideal that the cron job runs at the same time for everybody
[01:29] <ogra> Mithrandir, ^^^ should i upgrade dia before or after beta ? 
[01:41] <viviersf> is there a ppc version of feisty planned ?
[01:42] <Hobbsee> viviersf: cds?  if they fit
[01:42] <viviersf> huh
[01:42] <viviersf> i see theres like sparc etc copies of herd 5
[01:42] <viviersf> but no powerpc
[01:43] <cjwatson> see cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/
[01:45] <viviersf> thx
[01:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: after.
[01:55] <ogra> Mithrandir, thanks, thats what i thought
[02:01] <ogra> pitti, hey, bug 65028 should be fix released, shouldnt it ? i see the patch in the source ...
[02:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65028 in hal "doesn't dim screen on SONY VAIO (vgn FS215M / Z1 RMP) (regression)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/65028
[02:08] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: what happened to the "later" milestone? I'd like to resurrect that
[02:09] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: it's just deactivated, I'll reactivate it
[02:09] <cjwatson> thanks
[02:10] <pitti> ogra: no idea; if it is, please close it; thank you!
[02:11] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: done
[02:11] <ogra> pitti, i think it is, i'll check twice and close ...
[02:11] <cjwatson> cheers
[02:14] <ravi> I want to vote for wicd being in the repos
[02:15] <Hobbsee> ravi: it's nto a vote.  there is no wand waving here.
[02:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: I fixed the seven non-wishlist/non-needsinfo restricted-manager bugs; I deem two of them important for beta (broken X), the rest is more or less hardware detection fixes; how do you want to handle this?
[02:15] <ravi> it's an awesome tool which has better flexibility, in my mind, than Network-Manager for specific scenarios such as hidden broadcasts, etc.
[02:16] <Hobbsee> ravi: how about you package it for feisty+1, and then discuss it?
[02:16] <Hobbsee> ravi: and get it into feisty+1
[02:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92524 in restricted-manager "Breaks X when disabling fglrx" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92524
[02:17] <ravi> Hobbsee: not involved with the project whatsoever but I'll try to let someone know inside the project
[02:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: http://pastebin.ca/401529 is the complete debdiff
[02:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: which bugs are the broken X bugs?
[02:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: bug 92849 and bug 93643, and (less dangerous) bug 92573
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92849 in restricted-manager "Restricted drivers manager damages my xorg.conf [Nvidia Legacy Drivers] " [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92849
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 93643 in restricted-manager "changes manually set resolution" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93643
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92573 in restricted-manager "xorg.conf is updated before driver installation" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92573
[02:21] <BenC> Mithrandir: I saw nothing in debian/changelog that said gcc-4.1 was broken, so I thought nothing of it
[02:21] <Mithrandir> BenC: so you didn't build and test the resulting binaries?
[02:21] <BenC> Mithrandir: Still, grub cannot be rebuilt in feisty, and that's a problem, right?
[02:22] <Mithrandir> BenC: yes, it's a problem, but I'm not going to let in a change which makes grub non-functional three days before beta. :-)
[02:22] <BenC> Mithrandir: No, I only built it
[02:22] <Mithrandir> my blood pressure is going to be high enough as it will be, thanks. :-P
[02:22] <BenC> Mithrandir: lol, well, should it be dropped back down to gcc-3.4 since that was working before it got bumped to gcc-4.0?
[02:22] <heno> dholbach: sure, it would be nice to have. How strict are the UVFs for universe?
[02:23] <Hobbsee> heno: not terribly.  2 ack's
[02:23] <Mithrandir> BenC: that'd be better, yes.
[02:23] <BenC> Mithrandir: Ok, I'll upload a new one for gcc-3.4, but feel free to put it on hold till after beta
[02:24] <Mithrandir> BenC: sure, that's fine.
[02:24] <BenC> the crashdump change isn't all that important
[02:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: debdiff, please?
[02:25] <termitor> mvo_: you are the good personne , so you whant patch for have a randomise time of day of the cron of apt ?
[02:27] <termitor> mvo_: it's possible include it in feisty or current release ?
[02:30] <mvo_> termitor: feisty may be a bit late, we are very close to the release already
[02:30] <mvo_> termitor: but thanks a lot of the offer do make a patch for it!
[02:31] <pitti> Mithrandir: <pitti> Mithrandir: http://pastebin.ca/401529 is the complete debdiff
[02:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, looks good.
[02:38] <heno> ogra: I can add some more Edubuntu winfoss if you want. I left out some nice ones like inkscape
[02:39] <ogra> heno, inkscape wouold be cool, since we have the linux version on the same CD ... lets see how it looks after the next build if the langpack changes took effect
[02:40] <ogra> the *shold* be more than 50M free still, but i like proofs first ;)
[02:40] <heno> ogra: oki, fyi inkscape is 16 mb
[02:40] <ogra> ok
[02:41] <ogra> heno, after beta i think
[02:43] <mantiena> Hello all
[02:43] <Hobbsee> hiya
[02:43] <mantiena> doko: hi, are you online ? I wanna talk about OOo maintaining
[02:44] <doko> mantiena: don't talk, just fix bugs
[02:45] <mantiena> doko: :)
[02:45] <Hobbsee> doko: unless mantiena is here to talk about taking over OOo maintaining from you, of course?
[02:45] <Hobbsee> *g*
[02:46] <mantiena> Hobbsee: bingo ;)
[02:47] <Treenaks> "Don't talk just fix" - Right Said Doko ? *hides*
[02:47] <doko> mantiena: any specific issues?
[02:48] <mantiena> doko: it seems Ubuntu seeks OOo maintainer pretty long time, at least on ubuntu.com/employment I see this  more than 3 months...
[02:48] <mantiena> doko: so, it seems you need help with maintaining, I'm right ?
[02:51] <heno> ogra: does one need a thin client setup to sensibly test the server CD?
[02:52] <tbf> hi, accidently i've uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com, instead of uploading to revu.tauware.de (why doesn't point dput's config on revu by default?)
[02:52] <mantiena> doko: so, you need at least comaintainer or not ? ;)
[02:52] <tbf> so feel free to remove my vala crap :-)
[02:52] <Hobbsee> tbf: you'll just get a declined message
[02:53] <Hobbsee> tbf: it auto-rejects if you're not in the keyring
[02:53] <Hobbsee> or maybe you dont get a message - i dont remember
[02:53] <tbf> Hobbsee: ok
[02:53] <Hobbsee> tbf: because the default place to upload is to ubuntu - at least for developers
[02:54] <doko> mantiena: well, needing help and an open position are two different things, although they may be connected
[02:54] <mantiena> ;)
[02:55] <tbf> Hobbsee: well. dunno which group is larget: motu-contribs or core-developers. but guess the default in that config file should be adjusted for the larger and less educated group ;-)
[02:55] <Mithrandir> tbf: just use a local .dput.cf ?
[02:55] <tbf> well, but not here to argue
[02:56] <tbf> Mithrandir: well, just slightly bitter 'cause i forgot to edit my file
[02:56] <tbf> Mithrandir: but its possible and hopefully i'll remember now, if i should install dput on yet another machine
[02:57] <Hobbsee> tbf: which is MOTU + Core dev.  it also says in the REVU howto about it, i'm sure.
[02:57] <Hobbsee> it certainly used to
[02:57] <tbf> Hobbsee: yup. when installing dput on my desktop i remembered to change
[02:58] <tbf> but then i decied to build on the notebook, which is faster - and there i forgot
[03:00] <ogra> heno, its helpful, but no requirement
[03:00] <heno> ok
[03:00] <Mithrandir> mvo_: can you do another run of the upgrade testing?
[03:01] <mvo_> Mithrandir: yes, thanks for the reminder
[03:07] <mantiena> cjwatson: hi, I've reported bug about not working virtual consoles in LiveCD,  you told me, that I should  show it to you and you will fix it before beta, so, look at bug #92928
[03:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92928 in casper "casper corrupts virtual consoles creation events (/etc/event.d/tty1 - tty6) " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92928
[03:07] <ogra> hrm ... when was this notification bubble for share desktop added ? is the a way to supress that ? 
[03:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: thanks for the review, uploaded
[03:08] <ogra> *there
[03:09] <ogra> (thin-client-manager has a function to export your desktop to the whole classroom ... everythime i use it me and indeed all other users as well get that popup warning on the shared screen)
[03:10] <cjwatson> mantiena: no, please don't misrepresent what I said
[03:10] <cjwatson> mantiena: I said:
[03:10] <cjwatson> 19:51 <cjwatson> please let me know the bug number once you file it (or find an existing one) and I'll ensure it's milestoned for beta
[03:10] <cjwatson> I did NOT say that I would personally fix it.
[03:11] <cjwatson> mantiena: also please don't nominate bugs for feisty when feisty is the current development trunk. It means nothing and is a waste of effort.
[03:12] <cjwatson> bugs are "nominated" (or equivalent) for the current development trunk by default
[03:12] <asac> Mithrandir: ping? -> pm
[03:16] <mantiena> cjwatson: ok, so, please ensure, that this bug will be milestoned for beta ;) Btw, what you think about reducing numbe of virtual text consoles to 2 ar 3 ? Noone needs 6 virtual consoles on Desktop live CD, they are using RAM, which is very important when you use Ubuntu from Live CD, sometimes even installer crashes if there are less than 256 RAM (for example when computer has video controler, which uses main memory)
[03:16] <mantiena> s/numbe/number
[03:18] <cjwatson> mantiena: they use a whole 4KB of non-shared RAM. I don't care.
[03:19] <mantiena> cjwatson: only 4 kb  how you are counting ?
[03:20] <cjwatson> rss minus shared
[03:23] <cjwatson> looks like a one-liner in casper
[03:27] <Mithrandir> seb128: control-center, vte, do you want those in for beta?
[03:28] <seb128> Mithrandir: control center is a 3 lines change, would be nice to have (and it only modify a capplet, not likely to break anything)
[03:29] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok, accepted.
[03:29] <seb128> Mithrandir: the vte upload fixes a crasher, a refresh bug on desktop switching that several people complained about an another bug, up to you to know if you are happy with the changes or prefer to get them after beta
[03:29] <seb128> the changes come from upstream (SVN or bugzilla) and they don't break the world on my desktop
[03:32] <mantiena> cjwatson: btw, what you think if I will attach patch, which fixes bug #25496 ? it's very simple patch - just add one function - parse_cmdline() from Debian's casper, this function just exports TORAM, TODISK and some other variables if toram, todisk or some other boot parms are specified on startup
[03:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25496 in casper "toRam or copy2Ram (run ubuntu live from ram)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/25496
[03:33] <mantiena> it seems someone forgot to stole this function from Debian,  in latest merge
[03:35] <cjwatson> I would have no opinion on the subject. I only hack casper when I need to - I'm not the maintainer
[03:35] <mantiena> cjwatson: oh, sorry, I though, that you are one of comaintainers
[03:37] <cjwatson> like I say, just when I need to be
[03:37] <cjwatson> which is basically when it affects the installer
[03:38] <mantiena> cjwatson: so, who is main maintainer ? ;) tfheen or mdz or .. ?
[03:40] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/casper/bzr/casper>$ grep Maintainer: debian/control
[03:40] <cjwatson> Maintainer: Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@ubuntu.com>
[03:40] <cjwatson> seems very simple to discover ;-)
[03:43] <twb> I'm trying to make upstart do Bad Things.  #upstart is dead; anyone here wanna talk about it?
[03:46] <bddebian> Heya
[03:48] <twb> bddebian: good day.
[03:48] <bddebian> Hello twb
[03:49] <mantiena> cjwatson: thanks
[03:50] <BenC> Kernel Team meeting in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting for those interested, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[03:50] <mantiena> twb: I already forced upstart to do Bad Things on sunday ;)
[03:51] <twb> mantiena: I want an init.d script to be able to ask the user for confirmation.  This worked on Knoppix; the same script doesn't work under Edgy.  I think upstart is connecting the script's input to /dev/null instead of /dev/console.
[03:51] <twb> ...which makes sense for an async init manager, but I don't know how to work around it.
[03:53] <Mithrandir> use usplash for user interaction.
[03:53] <twb> Mithrandir: it's prompting for confirmation before erasing a hard disk, and usplash is not installed.
[03:53] <Mithrandir> install usplash, then? :-P
[03:53] <Mithrandir> anyway, afk for a bit.
[03:53] <twb> I *can* install it, but I'd prefer not to bloat the image any further.
[03:54] <twb> The script itself is visible here: http://twb.ath.cx/~twb/scratch/knoppix-pers/debian/init.d
[03:55] <twb> ...so yeah, usplash is only for output; it can't get input from the user, right?
[03:57] <mantiena> twb: sorry, I never tried to do interactive boot scripts ...
[03:58] <twb> Yeah...
[03:58] <twb> How is the install program started on the alternate CD?
[03:58] <twb> Maybe I should be doing whatever it's doing
[04:16] <mantiena> twb: simply press enter
[04:16] <twb> mantiena: I don't understand.
[04:17] <mantiena> twb: to start installation with alternate CD simply press enter
[04:17] <twb> I think you misunderstand.  I'm asking how the program that listens for that enter is launched
[04:18] <mantiena> twb: sorry, it seems I don't understood you :(
[04:19] <twb> I'll just download the alternate CD and grovel through it
[04:31] <iwj> OK, I give up.  Can anyone tell me what writes /etc/ppp/peers/ppp0 if you set up a dialup connection in System Administration / Networking ?
[04:31] <twb> iwj: pump(8)?  Just a guess./
[04:31] <iwj> I straced network-admin and it didn't touch the file so presumably there's a wild goose chase of plumbing through daemons I could follow ...
[04:31] <iwj> pump ?  No, that's definitely not relevant.
[04:31] <twb> Sorry, I dunno then.
[04:32] <iwj> I've also grepped the source for gnome-system-tools
[04:33] <cjwatson> twb: the alternate install CD is its own little Linux distribution
[04:33] <cjwatson> twb: it's probably not applicable - doesn't use upstart, for a start
[04:34] <twb> cjwatson: I see; thank you for telling me.
[04:34] <cjwatson> twb: you probably want the INPUTENTER command in usplash, but I think it didn't work right in Edgy. Ben fixed some things along those lines in Feisty
[04:35] <twb> Hmm.  Well, I'll try Feisty if this Etch/casper image doesn't DTRT
[04:35] <cjwatson> hmm, isn't there an upstart knob to avoid stdin being /dev/null?
[04:35] <twb> I don't know.
[04:36] <cjwatson> 'console owner', I think
[04:36] <twb> Ah, OK.
[04:36] <cjwatson> in the relevant upstart job
[04:37] <cjwatson> oh, no, sorry, that's stdout and stderr
[04:37] <mdz> Mithrandir: the compiz patch is not critical for beta, but it's trivial and worth rolling in with other pending uploads
[04:37] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: does http://tiber.tauware.de/~gauvain/xfce-mcs-plugins.debdiff look sane for an upload?
[04:37] <twb> Darn.
[04:37] <twb> See, the persistence thing really needs to run and set up the disk before mysql and apache start.
[04:38] <cjwatson> honestly, I'd e-mail Scott. ;-)
[04:38] <gpocentek> cjwatson, mdz, any chance to have a look at bug #88470 and bug #88472 ?
[04:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88470 in goffice "[UVF]  goffice 0.3.5 -> 0.3.7" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88470
[04:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88472 in gnumeric "[UVF]  gnumeric 1.7.6 -> 1.7.8" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88472
[04:39] <gpocentek> I'd like to have them in the beta if possible
[04:40] <mdz> gpocentek: new upstream versions from experimental would require a solid rationale at the last moment before beta
[04:40] <mdz> like fixing showstopper bugs
[04:41] <gpocentek> mdz: we use the experimental packages since edgy, and the new tarballs provide a bunch of bugfixes
[04:44] <mdz> gpocentek: this should have been uncontroversial at the time when you filed it; the process says to email Tollef and Colin (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess)
[04:45] <mdz> gpocentek: maybe tollef didn't see it because it was filed in launchpad
[04:45] <gpocentek> mdz: right, I missed that part of the wiki page :/
[04:55] <ardchoille> I just built a .deb package of Tile World: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tworld/  How would I go about getting it added to the repos?
[04:56] <ogra> ardchoille, ask in #ubuntu-motu :)
[04:56] <ardchoille> ogra: Thank you :) 
[05:06] <Riddell> Seveas: the text on the kubuntu usplash is still black on black during the CD self-check
[05:07] <_ion> Now what's wrong with African-American text on an African-American background? Are you a racist?
[05:12] <kwwii> Seveas: Riddell just mentioned that the usplash still has black text (on the black bg) during the CD self-check, how can I fix that?
[05:13] <pitti> kwwii, Seveas: FYI, I applied Seveas' palette patches to usplash-theme-ubuntu and xubuntu-artwork this morning; edubuntu was already applied, I didn't have a patch for Kubuntu
[05:15] <kwwii> pitti: I think Riddell included it already
[05:15] <kwwii> I'm fetching the current stuff but it is taking forever :-(
[05:27] <iwj> Who makes a decision on promotions from multiverse to restricted ?  I take it the requirements are MIR plus additional justification ?
[05:29] <kwwii> dholbach: did those usplash patches make it into launchpad?
[05:30] <ogra> kwwii, pitti added them according to feisty-changes 
[05:30] <ogra> kwwii, this morning ...
[05:40] <dholbach> kwwii: I don't know when you asked me to change them
[05:42] <ogra> kwwii, pittis upload which added the patches was usplash-theme-ubuntu_0.13 ... the current ubuntu iso still seems to have the 0.12 version on it
[05:52] <kwwii> dholbach: I didn't know about it till afterwards... pitti just mentioned that he applied them is all :-)
[05:53] <kwwii> ogra: I was wondering why I cannot see them in launchpad is all
[05:53] <heno> kwwii: could you send me some SVGs or PNGs with transparency for the latest Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu logos (as used in usplash and GDM)? I should update the winfoss artwork at some point
[05:54] <kwwii> heno: yepp, I'll do that right away so I don't forget this time :-)
[05:54] <heno> heh, ok
[05:54] <heno> thanks
[05:54] <ogra> kwwii, lots of positive feedback about the edubuntu artwork btw :)
[05:55] <ogra> people are very imprressed by gdm, usdplash and the gnome splash
[05:55] <ogra> sigh, and i really need a new keyboard
[05:56] <kwwii> ogra: cool! good to hear :-)
[05:56] <keescook> mornin'
[05:56] <dholbach> hey keescook
[05:56] <keescook> hiya dholbach!
[05:58] <pitti> hi keescook 
[05:58] <keescook> hi pitti!
[06:09] <geser> hi keescook
[06:09] <keescook> hiya geser :)
[06:12] <stratus> ogra: hey
[06:13] <kwwii> heno: pics sent :-)
[06:14] <heno> thanks!
[06:31] <thom> mvo/cjwatson: http://www.stdlib.net/~colmmacc/2005/10/05/the-dos-and-donts-of-software-mirroring/ for something one of my colleagues wrote on the whole random updating thing
[06:32] <mvo> thom: thanks!
[06:34] <Seveas> kwwii, has the CD been rebuilt?
[06:35] <kwwii> Seveas: yes, I think that kubuntu has been rebuilt since the patch went in
[06:35] <Seveas> kwwii, are you on amd64?
[06:35] <kwwii> Riddell mentioned the problem to me, but I am not sure what I can do about it - the entries look good as they are I think
[06:36] <kwwii> Seveas: nope, i386...but I did not have the problem :-)
[06:36] <Seveas> ah
[06:38] <Riddell> Seveas: this is today's CD
[06:39] <Seveas> Riddell, which resolution does the CD check use?
[06:43] <Riddell> Seveas: I've no idea
[06:43] <Riddell> Seveas: I also got it on the reboot message
[06:49] <pitti> mvo: can you please actually upload update-manager-core for bug 92875, so that I have something to accept? :)
[06:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92875 in update-manager "Server upgrade tool needs backported update-manager-core" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92875
[06:50] <mvo> pitti: Subject: update-manager-core_0.56~edgy1_source.changes is NEW
[06:50] <mvo> pitti: :)
[06:50] <pitti> mvo: ah, I see
[06:50] <Tonio_> dholbach: since it is a uvf exception should I 1ubuntu1 the package ?
[06:50] <mvo> pitti: thanks a lot for the fast reaction on this!
[06:51] <dholbach> Tonio_: no, syncing is fine, just needs uvf approval
[06:51] <Tonio_> okay
[06:53] <pitti> siretart: ping
[06:53] <siretart> pitti: yes?
[06:54] <pitti> siretart: I see two libaqbanking uploads from you
[06:54] <pitti> siretart: (in edgy-proposed)
[06:54] <Seveas> Riddell, my laptop crashed testing usplash. Could you please repeat what you said after 'I also get it during reboot'?
[06:55] <siretart> pitti: yes, Mithrandir told me to reupload, because I used a wrong versioning scheme in the first run
[06:55] <pitti> siretart: but (a) it contains unrelated changes in debian/control which are not suitable for edgy, and (b) this should be 3build1, not 3ubuntu1 -- it has no source modifications after all
[06:55] <siretart> pitti: oddly, both didn't show up in ubuntu/edgy/+queue
[06:56] <pitti> siretart: or 3build1~prop1 for -proposed and -3build1 for -updates
[06:56] <siretart> pitti: yes, a rebuild of the package fixes the reported segfaults. at least on my test system
[06:56] <Seveas> Riddell, I just tested it, nice blue text on black background here
[06:56] <siretart> pitti: ok. I'll reupload then with the issues fixed
[06:56] <pitti> siretart: danke
[06:57] <pitti> siretart: (please use edgy's dpkg; we didn't test XSBC-Original-Maintainer with the Edgy package tools)
[06:57] <pitti> would be too bad to have adept, aptitude or whatever stumble over an unknown field
[06:58] <siretart> oh
[06:58] <siretart> okay. willdo
[06:58] <pitti> which they probably won't, but let's be paranoid for stables :)
[06:58] <siretart> this should be documented then on the wiki
[06:58] <pitti> it is
[06:58] <siretart> oh
[06:58] <pitti> 'make no unrelated changes' or so
[06:59] <pitti> siretart: no, it's great to have people care about stables, I just want to direct their efforts a bit :)
[06:59] <siretart> :)
[07:08] <pitti> mvo: u-m-core is Section: admin in edgy/NEW and gnome in feisty; I take it that it should be changed to admin in feisty as well?
[07:08] <Riddell> Seveas: I didn't say anything after
[07:08] <pitti> mvo: also, will you eventually split the source in feisty as well?
[07:08] <Riddell> Seveas: how do I test it?
[07:09] <Seveas> Riddell, in the usplash source there's a usplash-test.sh
[07:09] <Seveas> sudo ./usplash-test.ch -v
[07:09] <Seveas> the -v is for verbose - with text :)
[07:10] <tsmithe> hi: i'm waiting on enblend and wired in NEW, which have been there since (before) FeatureFreeze. how likely is it that they will be in? UbuntuStudio would really appreciate it if they were. i'm assuming that since they were uploaded before the freeze took place, we won't need an exception. am i right?
[07:14] <siretart> pitti: (re)uploaded
[07:17] <Riddell> Seveas: when I do that the text on the left is a very dark green, near black
[07:17] <pitti> siretart: beautiful; accepted
[07:17] <Seveas> Riddell, which architecture?
[07:17] <Riddell> Seveas: i386 and amd64
[07:17] <Riddell> Seveas: can you send me your usplash-theme-kubuntu.c again
[07:18] <Seveas> sure
[07:18] <mvo> pitti: yes, it should be changed in feisty as well. I don't think I will split the source in feisty
[07:18] <siretart> pitti: w00t :)
[07:20] <pitti> mvo: update-manager-core/main/gnome/OPTIONAL' binary overridden in feisty/i386
[07:20] <pitti> mvo: (to 'admin')
[07:20] <Seveas> Riddell, sent to jriddell@u.c
[07:20] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[07:22] <stratus> ogra: http://people.debian.org/~stratus/bzr/stratus-ltspfs/
[07:22] <stratus> ogra: feedback is appreciated.
[07:30] <keescook> Mithrandir: should I open a bug for the libwpd feisty UVF/Beta exception that doko also emailed about?
[07:38] <j-b> Hello !
[07:38] <j-b> I am looking for someone from the TOMU Team
[07:39] <j-b> MOTU Media it is /D
[07:40] <LaserJock> j-b: the #ubuntu-motu channel would be the place to ask
[07:40] <j-b> LaserJock: thanks
[07:43] <ogra> stratus, looks cool, my problem is that my usbfloppy isnt liked by the kernel, so i can hardly test it ... i'll oook deeper into it after beta is out ...
[07:44] <stratus> ogra: np, i've carefully tested that. I'm sure there's a set of usbfloppies supported
[07:44] <stratus> ogra: at least those who identify itself as floppy
[07:44] <stratus> ogra: the other hunk not related with the udev rules is needed for the floppy icon and a sane device naming scheme
[07:45] <ogra> mine does, but the kernel gets into an endless loop and adds floppies over and over until i unplug
[07:46] <ogra> stratus, also make sure sbalneav takes a look at it to make sure there is nothing clashing, he implemented all the other floppy stuff 
[07:46] <stratus> it has the interface attribute declaredas floppy?
[07:46] <stratus> s/declaredas/declared as/
[07:47] <ogra> it just checks if a device is fd(n)
[07:47] <stratus> isn't him subscribed to pkg-ltsp-devel? I've filed a wishlist bug with that information since vagrantc asked me to do so
[07:47] <ogra> i dont think he is ... 
[07:48] <ogra> ping him in #edubuntu or #ltsp  :)
[07:48] <stratus> :)
[07:49] <stratus> about the device check, do you check only if it's fd yeah but I've introduced the interface attribute check for usb floppies
[07:50] <stratus> usb floppies also use sd* devices like usb (block) stuff
[07:51] <ogra> yep
[07:52] <ogra> i just want to be sure we dont clash with the finally resulting floppy device ... i.e. if you have a builtin floppy and put in a usb floppy as well (for copying or whatever)
[07:52] <ogra> anyway, i have to vanish again, bbl
[07:55] <stratus> ogra: impossible to clash since usbfloppies are floppy<letter> (sd*) and regular floppies are floppy<number> (fd*)
[07:55] <stratus> ogra: see you.
[07:56] <cjwatson> Riddell: is there a way to create a named QHBoxLayout (or equivalent) in qt4 designer?
[07:57] <cjwatson> Riddell: I can't get it to stick - even if I edit a name into the .ui by hand, designer removes it again
[07:57] <cjwatson> and it replaced <widget class="QWidget" name="foo"><layout class="HBoxLayout">...</layout></widget> with just <layout>...</layout>
[07:58] <cjwatson> I just want to have an empty box I can fill up in code later
[07:58] <Riddell> cjwatson: it doesn't seem to like doing that, you need to create a named QFrame and create the layout at run time
[08:00] <cjwatson> oh, a frame, ok
[08:01] <cjwatson> I can't decide whether I dislike glade-3 or designer-qt4 more
[08:02] <cjwatson> or maybe a named QWidget, I guess
[08:02] <Riddell> the UI styles of glade and designer have swapped around with the new versions
[08:02] <Riddell> yes, a QWidget is fine too
[08:02] <cjwatson> heh, yeah, I noticed that
[08:03] <cjwatson> I think I prefer old-designer / new-glade
[08:04] <twb> What packages provide upstart jobs?
[08:04] <Riddell> the lots of windows style would be better if window managers could handle raising and hiding all windows at once
[08:04] <twb> Riddell: they can't?
[08:05] <cjwatson> twb: I don't think any do yet
[08:05] <cjwatson> replacement-initscripts got deferred
[08:05] <twb> (map raise (windows (current-screen)))
[08:05] <twb> cjwatson: presumably only the sysvinit compat package, then
[08:06] <cjwatson> $ dlocate /etc/event.d/ | cut -d: -f1 | sort -u
[08:06] <cjwatson> system-services
[08:06] <cjwatson> upstart
[08:06] <cjwatson> upstart-compat-sysv
[08:06] <cjwatson> upstart-logd
[08:06] <cjwatson> Riddell: (I'm trying to fix a few infelicities in the ubiquity KDE advanced partitioner before beta)
[08:10] <Riddell> cjwatson: let me know if you need me to test anything
[08:10] <Riddell> cjwatson: the new oem-installer works (and looks) great
[08:17] <twb> I was impressed to discover that Debian have a graphical (GTK2-based) installer that fits on a 30MB install CD
[08:18] <cjwatson> Riddell: thanks
[08:19] <cjwatson> twb: yeah, we went down that road for some time before starting with ubiquity (I was fairly involved in it for a bit) but eventually decided that it just wasn't possible to get that type of generated UI working as well as a custom-designed one
[08:19] <cjwatson> twb: we may yet include it as an option, though personally I still think it's pretty roug
[08:19] <twb> "generated"?
[08:19] <cjwatson> rough
[08:20] <cjwatson> all d-i UIs work by having client code (confmodules) send commands to a debconf implementation using the debconf protocol, and then having debconf work out what sort of UI it thinks needs to be displayed based on the questions that have been asked
[08:21] <cjwatson> so rather than the UI being laid out by hand, debconf says "oh, you want to ask two string questions and a boolean question, ok, *splat*"
[08:21] <cjwatson> it's functional, and pretty efficient in terms of code reuse, but it doesn't tend to look great
[08:21] <twb> It does make things significantly easier for highly distributed, modular maintenance.
[08:22] <twb> Right.
[08:22] <cjwatson> to do it properly, you need to go through and write plugins for the common UI elements, like the partitioner
[08:22] <cjwatson> but nobody has done that yet, and there are still some little bits of infrastructure needed (implementation of Debconf-Frontend field for udebs in libd-i)
[08:24] <LaserJock> cjwatson: does ubiquity have enough modularity for downstreams to add their own "pages"?
[08:24] <cjwatson> LaserJock: not easily, although I consider that a bug
[08:24] <cjwatson> you could do it, but you'd have to hack the frontends very carefully :(
[08:25] <LaserJock> how's the installer team going?
[08:25] <cjwatson> d-i's a lot easier and more stable for that kind of thing
[08:25] <cjwatson> couple of contributors, though not nearly as big as I'd like
[08:25] <LaserJock> I wish I had more time and knowledge for that kind of thing
[08:25] <LaserJock> it's pretty fascinating
[08:26] <twb> Looks like there is not upstart equivalent of dh_installinit yet.
[08:27] <cjwatson> twb: fwiw, ubiquity does use a fair bit of d-i code - I definitely want to take advantage of collaborative maintenance where I can
[08:27] <twb> Suppose, say, apache was started by an event.d instead of an init.d job.  How would the sysadmin say "don't start apache on boot"?  What's the equivalent of update-rc.d or rcconf?
[08:28] <_ion> Currently commenting the line 'start on ...' in /etc/event.d/apache, but AFAIK some kind of "profiles" support is being planned.
[08:29] <twb> OK, so it's coming but not yet here.
[08:30] <_ion> twb: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Profiles
[08:31] <cjwatson> LaserJock: as far as knowledge goes, I'm happy to help new folks out in their areas of interest
[08:32] <twb> In debian/rules, how can I tell if the target system is Ubuntu vs. Debian?
[08:33] <twb> BUILD_SYSTEM?
[08:33] <twb> Oh, lsb_release --short --id
[08:33] <twb> (looking through the casper diff.gz)
[08:47] <Riddell> Seveas: I changed the text forground colour to the same as the success colour, that fixes it fine
[08:48] <Riddell> Mithrandir: new kubuntu-default-settings uploaded for usplash text colour problem
[08:48] <Seveas> Riddell, odd but if that fixes it: great!
[08:48] <twb> Is there an Emacs major mode for editing event.d files?
[09:03] <Mithrandir> gpocentek: yes, I believe so.
[09:04] <spike> I've had a look at launchpad but couldnt find anything similar so I'm referring to the debian bug, which I'm experiencing on feisty: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=411949
[09:04] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 411949 in nvidia-kernel-source "nvidia-kernel-source: Version fails to build using linux-image-2.6.20-1-k7" [Normal,Open]  
[09:04] <spike> hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to get that working
[09:05] <spike> uhm, wow
[09:05] <spike> I'm rolling my own kernel, dunno if that matters
[09:05] <spike> but the error is exactly the same
[09:16] <Burgwork> spike: you get the error with a stock kernel?
[09:16] <Mithrandir> Riddell: I'll take a look, thanks.
[09:16] <spike> Burgwork: nope, I'm rolling one from vanilla kernels 'cause there's a problem with stock kernels and wifi stack
[09:17] <spike> Burgwork: it seems that disabling paravirtualization supports does the job,I dont really need it on this box
[09:18] <Burgwork> spike: if you are using a vanilla kernel, it is bug that goes there, not in LP
[09:18] <mjg59> spike: If you're building vanilla kernels, you're on your own
[09:18] <mjg59> Well, to be honest, if you're rebuilding anything you're pretty much on your own
[09:20] <spike> fair enough, being the same problem also happening on stock kernels I thought I could ask in here. anyway, nm. ta for the input
[09:21] <Burgwork> spike: we barely have time for stock bugs, let alone wierd stuff like that
[09:21] <spike> agree, again, fair point no probs
[09:25] <twb> cjwatson: I worked out a dirty hack to let my init.d script talk to the user
[09:26] <twb> cjwatson: sed --in-place "1iconsole output" /etc/event.d/rcS
[09:27] <twb> cjwatson: I'll just stick with that until replacement-initscripts has been actioned
[09:52] <markoa> Who can I talk to regarding a SoC idea?
[09:52] <markoa> The one at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultipleComputersSynchronization
[09:58] <bluefoxicy> man.
[09:59] <bluefoxicy> hal.pp.fishpool.fi what the hell is this
[09:59] <mjg59> A hostname
[09:59] <bluefoxicy> I'm showing afs3-fileserver port 7000 connections to this server constantly in ntop, from my ubuntu machine.  (ntop is showing me a LOT of strange activity)
[10:00] <mjg59> Uh.
[10:00] <mjg59> 7000 is usually IRC.
[10:00] <bluefoxicy> well I'm not connected to any irc servers on port 7000
[10:01] <mjg59> Well, it's an IRC server.
[10:01] <mjg59> Connected to hal.pp.fishpool.fi.
[10:01] <mjg59> Escape character is '^] '.
[10:01] <mjg59> :damocles.esper.net NOTICE AUTH :*** Looking up your hostname...
[10:01] <mjg59> Anything else is your problem.
[10:01] <bluefoxicy> hmm
[10:02] <bluefoxicy> nods.  I've still not figured out this google-analytics thing either but that's probably built-in firefox spyware.
[10:02] <Mithrandir> no, it's not.
[10:03] <bluefoxicy> firefox says connecting to google-analytics a lot :/  has google taken over the internet while I was /away?
[10:03] <mjg59> ...
[10:03] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: you could, like, google for google analytics?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> Riddell: why are you shipping backup files in the kubuntu-default-settings source package??
[10:04] <Mithrandir> s/.$//
[10:06] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: and moreover you appear to be connected to espernet, so ...
[10:06] <cjwatson> (different nick, but my second guess was correct)
[10:07] <bluefoxicy> cjwatson: nods, I probably set it to connect on 7000 some time 1000 years ago and don't remember.  The host name and ntop's afs3 thing was throwing me off.  I've got connections out on tons of weird ports, but I'm guessing it may be Web scripts like google-analytics contacting http://someserver:3814/ or such.
[10:07] <_ion> % getent hosts irc.esper.net | while read ipaddr host; do getent hosts "$ipaddr"; done
[10:07] <_ion> 213.157.66.81   hal.pp.fishpool.fi
[10:07] <bluefoxicy> I guess it's not Ubuntu, but just the Internet that has all kinds of weird connections on it
[10:08] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: I'd suggest panicking less, as a general rule
[10:08] <bluefoxicy> I'm probing, not panicking.  There's a hole in my knowledge of wtf's going on.
[10:08] <cjwatson> don't probe on #ubuntu-devel.
[10:09] <cjwatson> going "what the hell is this" on the development channel for your operating system constitutes panicking.
[10:17] <bddebian> What about probing bluefoxicy on -devel? :-)
[10:18] <cjwatson> I'd rather not, thanks all the same
[10:18] <bddebian> :-)
[10:19] <markoa> Er is there anyone here who's a potential mentor for SoC, or coordinator... or am I asking on the wrong place?
[10:21] <Mithrandir> markoa: yes, there are several people in here who have signed up as mentors.
[10:25] <Burgwork> markoa: what is your specific question about mentoring?>
[10:26] <LaserJock> we seem kinda light on projects? didn't we have a lot more last year? or am I remembering wrong
[10:26] <markoa> Burgwork, not really about mentoring... I'm looking for someone to ask/talk to about the file synchronization and sharing proposal? Is that of higher priority anyway, because I it seems to me that the people subscribed to the launchpad spec are "just" packagers / ...?
[10:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: light on suggestions, you mean?
[10:27] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah
[10:27] <ajmitch> I suspect that people think the list of suggestions is fixed, and shouldn't be added to
[10:27] <ajmitch> or something like that
[10:28] <Burgwork> yep
[10:29] <LaserJock> looks like we had 83 last year
[10:29] <ajmitch> grab a few ideas from last year then
[10:29] <bhale> hi
[10:29] <Burgwork> bhale: !
[10:29] <bhale> Burgwork: duder
[10:29] <ajmitch> hello bhale 
[10:30] <Burgwork> markoa: are you looking to add ideas or be mentored
[10:30] <Burgwork> ?
[10:31] <markoa> Burgwork, discuss that idea, as in to set the scope and goals clearly... and hopefully be mentored.
[10:31] <Burgwork> ah
[10:31] <Burgwork> you can edit the idea/spec on the wiki
[10:34] <markoa> someone, a potential mentor, would respond somehow?
[10:35] <twb> Failed to fetch http://apt-proxy:9999/ubuntu-security/dists/edgy-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[10:35] <twb> That error is the bane of my existence.
[10:36] <keescook> twb: apt-proxy is a disaster.
[10:36] <twb> Yeah.
[10:36] <keescook> I just use squid.  :P  it's better than nothing.  :)
[10:36] <ajmitch> keescook: and yet I persist in using it for some reason
[10:36] <twb> The author of apt-cache is at my local LUV, he always goes on about it
[10:36] <keescook> ajmitch: you're special!  :)
[10:36] <ajmitch> keescook: very spethial
[10:36] <Mithrandir> I just use a fast DSL, but that solution might not work for everybody..
[10:36] <keescook> Mithrandir: heheh
[10:36] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: not when some of us have a 30GB monthly data cap
[10:37] <twb> Mithrandir: I'm repeatedly installing the same package over and over, because I'm building live cds
[10:37] <Mithrandir> twb: then I'd have a local mirror, but that might just be me.
[10:37] <twb> So e.g. apache2 might be installed a dozen times in one day.
[10:37] <keescook> Mithrandir: there are a few big fixes in the delta between unstable and feisty atm.  They're mostly crash fixes (and translations), but I'd love it if we could get a sync.  is there any chance of that?
[10:37] <twb> Mithrandir: well yes, but there's no need for a FULL local mirror.  apt-proxy mirrors stuff on an as-needed basis.
[10:38] <keescook> Mithrandir: (in mysql)
[10:38] <twb> keescook: in what pa- ah
[10:38] <Mithrandir> keescook: oh, that's main, post-beta at least?
[10:39] <keescook> Mithrandir: that'd be fine; I just want to make sure it doesn't get lost.  Should I open a bug and mile-stone it to 7.04?
[10:39] <Mithrandir> keescook: yes, please.
[10:39] <Mithrandir> and please paste a bit of the irc conversation so I don't go "huh?" in a week.  Or just add the rationale.
[10:40] <markoa> Guys ah one more question... I sent an application to GNOME. It's a proposal for a new program. I'm not sure how appropriate that was actually. A metadata-based document browser... I think it is something which would be very useful to all users. Would Ubuntu consider such an application as a possible SoC project perhaps?
[10:42] <sneakums> markoa: have you seen http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/ - i think it's slated for inclusion in gnome 2.20
[10:42] <Burgwork> markoa: got a link to the spec?
[10:42] <Burgwork> sneakums: tracker is very very iffy
[10:42] <sneakums> iffier than beagle?
[10:43] <Burgwork> sneakums: tracker does less and uses less
[10:46] <markoa> here it is: http://marko.anastasov.name/docs/document_browser_gsoc_proposal.pdf
[10:47] <markoa> sneakums, yes it would be based on Tracker
[10:48] <Mithrandir> markoa: I'd be at least happy to look at proposals for the "automatic synchronisation of folders" idea.
[10:49] <markoa> Mithrandir, I'm the author of USBSink (http://usbsink.sourceforge.net), so I have some experience about this...
[10:50] <Burgwork> markoa: I would look into conduit
[10:50] <Burgwork> http://www.conduit-project.org/
[10:51] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: IMO, tying it to a desktop is very wrong.
[10:51] <_ion> "Does less"? Tracker has this whole concept of functioning as a generic metadata database for applications.
[10:51] <Mithrandir> (I'd want to use something like it for publishing images, for instance.)
[10:51] <markoa> Burgwork, I understand conduit as a program mainly for specific types of data, such as bookmarks etc
[10:51] <Burgwork> _ion: tracker is mostly a bunch of useless marketing words strung together. Tell me that when it actually does stuiff
[10:51] <Burgwork> Mithrandir: fair enough. But integration into the desktop is also nice
[10:52] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: oh, sure, integration is nice too, but it needs to work from the command line too.
[10:53] <Burgwork> Mithrandir: depends entirely on your goals. conduits goals are to provide a graphically easy way to connect disparate data sources
[10:53] <_ion> burgwork: Well, it has done stuff for ages, but support for it needs to be added to applications.
[10:54] <markoa> Burgwork, tracker is not really supposed to do stuff, but to provide means for applications
[10:54] <Burgwork> _ion: if tracker actually does stuff, then somebody needs to tell jamie to market it that way
[10:54] <_ion> You could say the same about PostgreSQL, until someone writes a program that uses PostgreSQL.
[10:54] <Burgwork> lots of people are rather annoyed with Jamie's inability to actually say "Tracker does X"
[10:54] <_ion> "A bunch of useless marketing words strung together. It doesn't do stuff."
[10:55] <Burgwork> I could point you at the huge thread about tracker, with jamie constantly saying the same junk about metadata
[10:55] <Burgwork> rather than "I can categorize albums easier" or "I can find stuff easier"
[10:55] <markoa> hm yeah on d-d-l... it was quite early, there were no applications yet, true
[10:56] <_ion> So tracker sucks because you feel its main author doesn't express himself the way you'd prefer.
[10:56] <_ion> The actual code doesn't matter, of course.
[10:57] <sladen> kwwii: I love the new OOo orangified splash
[10:58] <kwwii> sladen: thanks :-)
[10:58] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: does conduit do many-many-synchronisation or just two-way?
[10:58] <LaserJock> me two
[10:58] <LaserJock> too
[11:02] <Lure> kwwii: will we get blue OOo splash for Kubuntu?
[11:04] <markoa> Mithrandir, condiut can do one-to-many synchronization
[11:04] <kwwii> Lure: I have one done, if we can use it (not sure if it is possible to use two different splash's)
[11:04] <Burgwork> Mithrandir: I am not entirely certain
[11:06] <Lure> kwwii: yep, this might be an issue - there is -kde package, not sure if splash can be customized there
[11:07] <kwwii> Lure: if someone looks into the technical part it is ready :-)
[11:07] <Lure> kwwii: I am not sure if I am brave enough to build OOo myself ;-)
[11:08] <kwwii> ;-)
[11:09] <LaserJock> Lure: don't think you want to stretch your newly minted MOTU wings on OOo? ;-)
[11:11] <Mithrandir> Lure: running debian/rules clean only takes a bit more time than a full apache2 build.  It's not that bad.
[11:12] <jdong> keescook: ping, oh great security overlord
[11:12] <Lure> Mithrandir: ;-)
[11:12] <keescook> jdong: :) pong, sup?
[11:12] <jdong> keescook: what's the status of clamav in our supported distros?
[11:12] <Mithrandir> Lure: seriously though, the ooo build system is big and a bit scary, but it's quite neat when you get to know it.
[11:12] <jdong> keescook: there seems to be some unrest in bugs like bug 53856...
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53856 in clamav "ClamAV-Daemon Out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53856
[11:13] <jdong> are there any outstanding vulns, etc?
[11:13] <keescook> jdong: yeah, I outlined the state of clamav on u-devel last week, I think.
[11:13] <jdong> ah, ok
[11:13] <Lure> Mithrandir: I still recall doko's t-shirt from uds-mtv: I build OOo, do you? ;-)
[11:13] <keescook> there might be one outstanding vuln; I haven't checked.
[11:14] <Mithrandir> Lure: heh.  I did build it on my laptop in Mataro, actually.  It only took about 12-ish hours, iirc.
[11:14] <Nafallo> "only" ;-)
[11:14] <Nafallo> hi all :-)
[11:14] <ajmitch> hello Nafallo 
[11:15] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: yes, and this was 1.x.
[11:15] <keescook> jdong: ah! it was on u-motu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-March/001440.html
[11:15] <Nafallo> :-)
[11:15] <markoa> Has anyone read the proposal linked above? Does it make sense as a Ubuntu project?
[11:16] <jdong> keescook: ok, thanks, that answers most of my questions :)
[11:18] <keescook> jdong: great; let me know if have any other questions about it.  I'd love to see the library-tester thingy I mention; with that I'd likely start doing full-version updates.
[11:19] <jdong> keescook: that thing sounds like heaven; Backports would benefit greatly from such a tool too
[11:19] <ajmitch> keescook: what does this tester do? check for ABI changes?
[11:20] <keescook> ajmitch: yeah, that'd be the goal; I'm sure something like this exists, I just haven't had the time to dig it up.
[11:21] <markoa> Mithrandir, my doubts regarding the file sync idea are whether it is supposed to work only over a local network?
[11:22] <Mithrandir> markoa: I'd want it to work primarily over a local network, yes.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> (but with possibility for disconnected operations, for instance)
[11:23] <markoa> Mithrandir, ok, because the wiki also includes use cases about global transfers.
[11:24] <markoa> Mithrandir, disconnected operations?
[11:25] <Mithrandir> markoa: as in, I want to be able to add a file, remove another, change a third when I'm on a plane, then log onto my workstation do some other changes there and stuff should Just Work when I plug my laptop into the network.
[11:25] <Riddell> kwwii: doko may know if it's possible to have an openoffice kde splash
[11:26] <markoa> Mithrandir, I see.
[11:35] <jdong> Mithrandir: can I ask for a quick backport of KTorrent Feisty to Edgy and Dapper to close the security vulnerability in the backports version of KTorrent?
[11:36] <jdong> (the main version already has security fix; this is solely for the backports repo users)
[11:38] <Mithrandir> jdong: bug #?
[11:47] <jdong> Mithrandir: bug 91174
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91174 in edgy-backports "KTorrent security issue with releases <2.1.2 (Breezy - Feisty)" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91174
[11:54] <Mithrandir> jdong: I'll do it in the morning, it's midnight here now.
[11:54] <jdong> ok, sure
[12:09] <YokoZar> Could someone tell me the current version of libgphoto2-2 in Edgy?  I'm having users complain that I built my Wine package with a version newer than the one they have (so they can't upgrade), but I haven't messed with anything to my knowledge.  Was a newer libgphoto2-2 backported recently?
[12:10] <jdong> YokoZar: yikes, yeah a new one was backported recently
[12:10] <jdong> YokoZar: you should build your wine in a clean pbuilder without backports enabled
[12:10] <YokoZar> jdong: hmm...where can I do that?
[12:11] <jdong> YokoZar: non-backports package I pretty much guarantee/QA to work with a backports system.... the same cannot be said in reverse
[12:11] <jdong> YokoZar: there's a good pbuilder howto on the wiki
[12:11] <jdong> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto