[03:26] <sbalneav> ogra: pingity
[03:35] <sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
[03:35] <sbalneav> Nice blog post
[08:42] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell sbalneav thanks :)
[08:42] <edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
[08:46] <LaserJock> hi highvoltage
[08:46] <highvoltage> hey Mr LaserZ!
[08:46] <LaserJock> I could have sworn you just went to bed
[08:46] <highvoltage> I did
[08:47] <highvoltage> well, not to sleep
[08:47] <highvoltage> but it's a public holiday
[08:47] <highvoltage> so after breakfast I went back to bed
[08:47] <LaserJock> what time is it here now?
[08:47] <highvoltage> there? I would guess after midnight?
[08:47] <highvoltage> here it's 09:47 atm
[08:47] <highvoltage> (am)
[08:48] <LaserJock> sorry, *there
[08:48] <highvoltage> how's it going LaserJock?
[08:48] <LaserJock> oh, it's going
[08:49] <highvoltage> such a typical LaserJock reaction :)
[08:49] <LaserJock> up late writing/making sure MOTU survives another day
[08:49] <highvoltage> I wish I had more time/energy to get involved in MOTU. I have had several failed attempts :-(
[08:50] <highvoltage> yesterday I woke up and felt angry again, for the first time in a long time, and it felt good, it gave me lots of energy.
[08:50] <highvoltage> but I don't want to get my energy from anger, it's the way to the dark side.
[08:51] <LaserJock> yes, we don't need you going to the dark side
[08:51] <LaserJock> MOTUs been pretty rough the last couple weeks
[08:53] <highvoltage> what's been going on?
[08:53] <highvoltage> please tell me about it.
[08:53] <ajmitch> hi highvoltage
[08:53] <highvoltage> hi ajmitch
[08:55] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I thought that the MOTU council and the new structures would make MOTU more formalised and structured, and that things would generally be more smoothed out?
[08:55] <LaserJock> :-)
[08:55] <highvoltage> LaserJock: or is it more a case of there just being too much work now before release?
[09:03] <ajmitch> heh
[09:03] <ajmitch> 'smooth'
[09:03] <ajmitch> I wish :)
[12:21] <rockprincess> hello!
[12:21] <cbx33> hey rockprincess
[12:21] <cbx33> two ogra_s?
[12:21] <rockprincess> hey pete ;)
[12:21] <cbx33> it must be christmas
[12:21] <rockprincess> haha
[12:22] <rockprincess> pete, i'd need your help for a minute please?
[12:22] <cbx33> sure
[12:22] <cbx33> if I can help I will gladly
[12:22] <cbx33> rockprincess: i have a question for you after that ;)
[12:23] <cbx33> go go go
[12:43] <rockprincess> ok, tomorrow I wanna back-up my edubuntu system at school....what would i have to backup (especially for the ltsp configurations as I don't want to set this up again....) and how would I best go for it?
[12:45] <highvoltage> rockprincess: hey!
[12:45] <highvoltage> rockprincess: ltsp configuration is stored in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
[12:45] <highvoltage> rockprincess: besides that, you would probably just need to backup the user data
[12:46] <highvoltage> (and then any other custom changes and servives you might have made)
[12:46] <cbx33> hehe ;)
[12:46] <cbx33> rockprincess: just what I was typing
[12:46] <cbx33> "well.....basically.....i would backup "
[12:47] <cbx33> that's only as far as I'd got
[12:47] <highvoltage> cbx33: :)
[12:47] <rockprincess> highvoltage: ok, what about /etc/ shall I backup that as well and /var/ as well?
[12:48] <highvoltage> rockprincess: basically, you're the safest backing up *everything*
[12:48] <highvoltage> if you haven't changed anything in /etc, it won't be that important
[12:48] <highvoltage> but it should only be 3MB or so so it won't hurt to back up
[12:49] <cbx33> i wonder if one day they will have brain backups
[12:49] <cbx33> incase your brain gets corrupt
[12:49] <cbx33> rock_princess: you still receiving under the other name?
[12:50] <rockprincess> uppps got kicked....
[12:50] <rockprincess> [12:49]  <highvoltage> but it should only be 3MB or so so it won't hurt to back up .... was the last message i received
[12:51] <highvoltage> rockprincess: you just missed cbx33 talking about backing up human brains
[12:52] <rockprincess> highvoltage: is there maybe a way too make an image, burn it on cd, and if i need to set the system up again, then i could go from there?
[12:52] <rockprincess> hahaha
[12:53] <highvoltage> rockprincess: where are you planning to back up to? disk, or DVD (or other?)?
[12:55] <rockprincess> highvoltage: umm, the problem is i don't have a dvd-burner in my machine at the moment, but i could plug in my usb external hard drive and back it up there and then burn it at home on dvd...
[12:57] <rockprincess> right now, I'm at home....somehow IRC doesn't work at school, because the ports are being blocked by a firewall or something....
[12:57] <highvoltage> backing up to external hard disk should be sufficient, although backing up to another medium can't hurt
[12:58] <rockprincess> cool ;)
[12:58] <highvoltage> rockprincess: I haven't used it personally yet, but hubackup might work well for you
[12:58] <pips1> meeting in 2 mins?
[12:59] <rockprincess> highvoltage: thank you, I'll try and google that :)
[12:59] <highvoltage> it gives you a GUI where you can choose which directories you want to have backed up
[12:59] <highvoltage> rockprincess: you can just apt-get install it ;)
[12:59] <highvoltage> (or synaptic)
[12:59] <highvoltage> pips1: yep, although riched might not be there, it's a public holiday here today
[12:59] <rockprincess> highvoltage: excellent :) thank you!!
[12:59] <pips1> hey, highvoltage :-)
[01:00] <pips1> ah, public holiday, good for you guys
[01:00] <pips1> highvoltage: how do you like the new u.c site?
[01:01] <highvoltage> pips1: I'm still used to the old layout, finding some of the things I'm used to is sometimes a bit more work, but overall, it looks good, I think it's nice.
[01:01] <highvoltage> pips1: drupal works well for ubuntu.com
[01:01] <pipedream> it does, doesn't it
[01:01] <pips1> what are the things that you often look for?
[01:02] <highvoltage> pips1: I was just looking for the page with information about ubuntu membership, and I ended up using the search button to find it
[01:02] <pips1> ah
[01:03] <highvoltage> ogra: ping
[01:04] <highvoltage> pips1: it's not necassarily a design problem with the site, it's just that I knew the old site very, very well, and it takes some getting used to to change
[01:05] <pips1> highvoltage: well, I think you actually found a bug with the new site..
[01:06] <pips1> The ubuntu membership information isn't linked from any of the relevant pages, like http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate !
[01:06] <highvoltage> pips1: earlier this week I also couldn't find some other pages, but I might have overlooked them, can't remember what it was though
[01:07] <pips1> you might want to file them at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs
[01:07] <rockprincess> highvoltage: wow, this tool looks like what i've been looking for....... :D
[01:07] <highvoltage> rockprincess: yay!
[01:07] <pips1> I think there are quite a few free floating non-linked pages, also, there are some 404's
[01:08] <pips1> ogra: ping ping
[01:10] <highvoltage> cbx33: still around?
[01:13] <highvoltage> hey gnomefreak
[01:13] <pips1> highvoltage: I would like to do some testing.. ogra's shell script for rsync'ing the ISOs would be really helpfull, however, it needs to be upated for feisty and the add-on cd...
[01:13] <pips1> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
[01:13] <gnomefreak> hi highvoltage
[01:13] <pips1> ^^^ that one
[01:14] <highvoltage> pips1: aah
[01:14] <pips1> maybe you can update it? :-D
[01:15] <highvoltage> pips1: yep
[01:15] <pips1> cool!
[01:17] <pips1> hi, rockprincess
[01:17] <rockprincess> hey pips1 :)
[01:18] <pips1> what would you like for lunch?
[01:18] <rockprincess> hmmm, good question....anything with noodles, or pizza would be nice :)
[01:19] <pips1> Asian noodle stir-fry, perhaps?
[01:19] <pips1> hehe, pizza has always been my favourite :-)
[01:19] <rockprincess> mhmmmmmmmm yummy
[01:19] <rockprincess> mine too ;) i could eat pizza 7 times a week :)
[01:19] <pips1> hehe
[01:20] <pips1> I made a pizza on Sunday
[01:20] <pips1> we buy ready-made dough and add vegetables, etc.
[01:21] <pips1> ack, that meeting isn't happening
[01:21] <rockprincess> mhmm self-made pizzas are usually the best ;) to die for :)
[01:21] <highvoltage> oops
[01:21] <highvoltage> anyone mind to check for errors?
[01:22] <rockprincess> sure....
[01:24] <rockprincess> but the goal is to work well in high school and university environments as well. ... excellent...that's what i wanted to hear :D
[01:24] <pips1> highvoltage: nice post! I didn't find any typos..
[01:24] <highvoltage> kewl :)
[01:24] <highvoltage> firefox spell checker++ ;)
[01:26] <rockprincess> yeah, good job :)
[01:27] <highvoltage> thanks pips1 and rockprincess
[01:27] <sayan_> bye guys
[01:27] <sayan_> :)
[01:32] <pips1> I'm off to grab some food...
[01:33] <pips1> highvoltage: if you get around updating that rsyncer.sh script, please do send me a copy!
[01:34] <pips1> bye!
[01:36] <SynrG> in response to jonathan carter's planet post, "hi" :)
[01:38] <rockprincess> hi SynrG
[01:38] <SynrG> Ben Armstrong, here, with Debian jr.  in reference to tux4kids, which you use, I work with them a bit (i maintain tuxpaint in debian, for instance)
[01:38] <SynrG> it seems translations aren't flowing back from rosetta -> debian -> upstream for tuxpaint
[01:39] <SynrG> the other day on #tux4kids i had a guy who did some czech translations complain
[01:39] <SynrG> i suggested he take them straight upstream, which he did
[01:40] <SynrG> it would be nice if this could be ironed out
[01:40] <SynrG> but i'm not sure how
[01:40] <highvoltage> hi SynrG!
[01:40] <SynrG> highvoltage: jonathan carter, i presume?
[01:41] <highvoltage> SynrG: indeed
[01:41] <highvoltage> SynrG: I'm not sure why it's not going back upstream, but I can certainly investigate
[01:41] <SynrG> thanks
[01:42] <highvoltage> SynrG: we get quite a few people who are interested in translations of all parts of edubuntu, so perhaps there are some other languages that are also stuck somewhere
[01:42] <highvoltage> SynrG: we'd be absolutely thrilled to have more upstream people in edubuntu, even if you could just be on-board to give us advice from time to time
[01:42] <SynrG> what's the basic flow for translations?  do they go into subsequent ubuntu revisions of packages, or do they have to flow all the way back upstream first, then go into a new release, then down to debian, then to ubuntu?
[01:43] <SynrG> i'm really quite ignorant of rosetta
[01:44] <highvoltage> to be perfectly honest, I'm not 100% sure how it works either. I think it gets submitted back to upstream as .po files
[01:44] <highvoltage> I think it might be best to ask on #launchpad
[01:44] <highvoltage> let's join there and ask?
[01:44] <SynrG> sure
[01:51] <highvoltage> SynrG: about the localised debian-jr discs, you wouldn't consider basing a version on edubuntu perhaps? (edubuntu's livecd is very easy to customise)
[01:52] <SynrG> no
[01:52] <ogra> launchpad only automatically builds the language packs from the .po files, for upstream communication the translation teams should care
[01:52] <SynrG> well
[01:52] <SynrG> i should qualify that
[01:52] <SynrG> i have no problem with ubuntu localised jr discs.
[01:52] <SynrG> my priority is to make jr work with debian-live
[01:52] <ogra> theyy should notify upstreams about changes and even probably send the .po files to them ...
[01:52] <SynrG> as a subgoal, i want debian-live language support working
[01:53] <SynrG> ultimately we should produce something usable both by debian and ubuntu
[01:53] <highvoltage> SynrG: thanks for clearing that up
[01:54] <highvoltage> ogra: there was a meeting scheduled for 12:00, do you think it should be re-scheduled for later this week, or should it wait until next wednesday?
[01:54] <SynrG> so this leads back to my comment about unnecessary forking ... there's no need for the projects to duplicate locale infrastructure
[01:54] <ogra> oh crap
[01:54] <SynrG> we reduce our overall workload if we can agree on a common way to handle it
[01:54] <ogra> i totally forgot about the meeting, i'm so busy with spinning installs all around me
[01:54] <SynrG> i understand it's difficult to get buy-in to rosetta, but perhaps at least in structuring tuxpaint i can work out a model for language support in my own packages that makes things as painless as possible
[01:55] <highvoltage> ogra: it's ok, pips1 was here, and cbx33, and myself, we had some chat in this channel, but no one else was here, it might have been best to just re-schedule
[01:55] <ogra> we should skip or reeschedule, even though feel free to run it yourself, i cant give much input atm
[01:55] <highvoltage> it's also a public holiday here in .za, so Riched and willvdl is probably on the beach.
[01:56] <ogra> only new thing is that we now ship 142 languages :) (since yesterday)
[01:56] <highvoltage> wow, that's massive
[01:56] <ogra> apart from that the DCs are buggy atm and i try to get that sorted
[01:56] <highvoltage> is there any language it doesn't ship?!
[01:56] <ogra> no, we ship all of them
[01:56] <highvoltage> cbx33: do you know if there were any news on the artwork front for this week?
[01:56] <ogra> and we still have about 150M free
[01:57] <ogra> highvoltage, artwork is done
[01:57] <ogra> there will only be minor changes if any
[01:57] <highvoltage> ogra: I think it's best if that 150MB is kept free for now
[01:58] <cbx33> hey ogra
[01:58] <cbx33> did yo uget my pm?
[01:58] <highvoltage> ogra: the reason for that is, if you fill that up with something, people would expect that it is still there for the next release, and then it doesn't leave much space again to add more stuff
[01:58] <rockprincess> brb......grabing lunch!
[01:58] <ogra> we will add inkscape to the winfoss side post beta ...
[01:59] <ogra> thats another 16M
[01:59] <ogra> but apart from that no further additions are planned
[01:59] <highvoltage> cool
[02:00] <highvoltage> ogra: pips1 wants to use your rsync script for syncing edubuntu and disc2, but it needs some updating
[02:00] <highvoltage> ogra: he asked me to look at it, but I thought since it's your script, you might be able to do it quicker and more effectively
[02:00] <highvoltage> cbx33: would the gui you wrote perhaps make it easier for pips1?
[02:01] <cbx33> highvoltage: it's unfunished
[02:01] <cbx33> hmmm
[02:01] <cbx33> could be a good GSoC project ;)
[02:02] <highvoltage> cbx33: hmmm, could indeed
[02:39] <ogra_> yay
[03:04] <Tm_T> I wonder how much space would edubuntu-desktop add to my current kde-gnome twin
[03:19] <rockprincess> Tm_T: http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/metapackages/edubuntu-desktop
[03:20] <Tm_T> well thank you sir
[03:21] <Tm_T> hmh, acpi...
[03:21] <rockprincess> hmm well doesn't say how much space it uses
[03:21] <rockprincess> but i think not more than 2gb
[03:22] <rockprincess> and since you already installed Kde and Gnome....
[03:22] <Tm_T> yup, not much I notice
[03:22] <rockprincess> but i think it's a lot less than 2gb
[03:22] <Tm_T> though I will end up having issues with acpid
[03:22] <Tm_T> I'm sure
[03:23] <Tm_T> After unpacking 109MB of additional disk space will be used. <- including acpi stuff
[03:24] <rockprincess> what is acpi?
[03:24] <ogra_> the acpi stuff is also in ubuntu and kubuntu-desktop
[03:24] <ogra_> rockprincess: essential stuff for power management
[03:24] <bddebian> Heya
[03:24] <rockprincess> ogra_: ah thank you ;)
[03:48] <Tm_T> ogra_: yup, usually I just don't need acpi so didn't have it installed in my kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop didn't install fully because this problem etc
[03:48] <Tm_T> I bypassed it
[03:48] <ogra_> then your CPU will always run at full speed with hottest temperature possible
[04:48] <capt_kirk> !pastebin
[04:48] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[05:01] <capt_kirk> ogra and/or sbalneav around?
[05:03] <highvoltage> hi capt_kirk
[05:03] <capt_kirk> hi
[05:04] <capt_kirk> i'm looking for help on an LTSP problem that I chatted with sbalneav about on Monday.
[05:05] <capt_kirk> The summary of the problem is that if the internet is not available to the ltsp server, it will not allow clients to boot.  If they are already booted, they can stay up, but if you start the clients, they won't boot
[05:05] <capt_kirk> the first couple of failures end up with a terminal screen that looks like the test I put on pastebin, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11351/
[05:06] <capt_kirk> after that, the dhcp server stops serving ip addresses and no more clients get past pxe
[05:08] <capt_kirk> I think the key error in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11351/ is the failed RPC call, but I don't know how to do any more trouble shooting on the client while it is booting to find the cause of the error.  sbalneav thought it was a dns problem, but I haven't been able to find anything in the logs to narrow down the cause.
[05:08] <capt_kirk> Any one have any thoughts on places to look for more indications of the cause.
[05:09] <capt_kirk> (Murphy's law strikes -- Right when I get on here, my wife announces dinner.  I'll be away for a few minutes...)
[05:16] <capt_kirk> (back from dinner - divorce avoided)
[05:17] <capt_kirk> any devs have an idea on the above? ogra, sbalneav, cbx33
[05:17] <capt_kirk> (or others that I missed)
[05:17] <highvoltage> capt_kirk: congrats ;)
[05:17] <capt_kirk> lol.  thanks
[05:19] <highvoltage> capt_kirk: I've also experience similar RPC errors, also with the bad file descriptor error, but each time I experienced it I've been unable to fix it, it's the only part of LTSP that drives me mad
[05:21] <sbalneav> capt_kirk: What kind of switch do you have?  Managed, or unmanaged?
[05:21] <edubuntugirl> sbalneav: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'thanks :)' 8 hours, 38 minutes and 30 seconds ago (on Wed Mar 21 09:42:13 2007)
[05:21] <capt_kirk> it was driving me crazy, because I was only seeing it in one of the two labs that I've set up with Edubuntu LTSP.  But on Monday, our internet was down in the other lab, and I finally put it together that it's the failed internet connection that is causing it.  I can recreate it over and over by unplugging the internet connection.
[05:22] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: unmanaged.  but even if the switch is working, but the internet is out upstream it doesn't work.
[05:23] <capt_kirk> example: both labs get their internet from a wireless WAN in town.  Today, the secondary school lab had a good connection into town, but the ISP in town was down.  So we had a connection to the WAN, but not to the internet.  The error that I posted to pastebin was from that time.
[05:24] <capt_kirk> (hand copied off of screen, so it may have a few capitals and commas/colons out of place)
[05:26] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: i fixed the .local issue, and I'm still getting the same behavior.  I even added the ltsp server to the proxy server's host file, and vice-versa.  Still the same.
[05:28] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: I'll be happy to submit a bug report, but I didn't want to do it without chatting first to make sure it's not already been reported.  Also any pointers on how to get more debugging info from the thin-client boot process would be appreciated.  I've looked at the initramfs filesystem after it errors out, but I haven't been able to find any boot logs or the like.
[05:29] <capt_kirk> highvoltage: can you remember if your internet connection was up when you had the RPC errors?
[05:31] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: by the way, I'm looking forward to testing your persistent home folder.  Will it be fully functional in the Feisty beta?  (I haven't put the alphas of Feisty on either production system, but I'll be willing to put the beta on the secondary school system.)
[05:31] <highvoltage> capt_kirk: no, I had no internet connection in all the cases where I experienced it :-/
[05:31] <highvoltage> capt_kirk: but in the one case, I did remove and add one of the network cards in the server, and then it just worked again
[05:32] <highvoltage> capt_kirk: I had a suspicion it *might* have had something to do with what the default gateway was set to, but I'm still not sure
[05:32] <capt_kirk> highvoltage: (scratches head)
[05:32] <sbalneav> Well, it's not really a PERSISTENT home folder, the joke is it's exactly the opposite.  It's a home directory that gets created and removed on command.
[05:32] <highvoltage> people generally suggest that RPC errors is hardware related, but I'm convinced there's a bug in Ubuntu's NFS
[05:32] <highvoltage> the problem is, I don't know how to reproduce it reliably.
[05:33] <capt_kirk> If you get a chance, could you try unplugging your internet connection and see if it errors out like mine did.  Both of my labs will reproduce it reliably that way.
[05:33] <highvoltage> capt_kirk: although, what I've also found is, if you really need the lab up, is to shut everything down, then start the server, then start up all the clients... one.. by... one.
[05:34] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: yeah, that's what I meant.  I forgot exactly what you called it in the spec.  But I like the use case of keeping the home folder on a thumb drive.
[05:36] <capt_kirk> highvoltage: yeah.  when I'm getting the error, that seems to help.  If I bring up more than one at a time while the internet is down, that's when I get the error that two will log on, two will fail with the errors on pastbin, and the rest will not get an IP address.  But as soon as the internet comes back up, I can boot all 15 clients at the same time with no problem.
[05:36] <capt_kirk> within just a few seconds after the internet is plugged back in, all of the clients will get an IP address and boot with no problem.
[05:43] <capt_kirk> sbalneav: do you know what /scripts/nfs-premount does? It seems like the RPC error is coming during its execution.
[05:43] <capt_kirk> "mount: RPC: timed out
[05:43] <capt_kirk> mount: mfsmount failed: bad file descriptor"
[05:44] <capt_kirk> oops, typo -- mount: nfsmount failed
[05:49] <ogra_> capt_kirk, the error means that for some reason the client cant connect to the portmapper (RPC) of the server to mount its / via nfs
[05:53] <capt_kirk> ogra, sorry lost my connection.  last message received was "capt_kirk, the error means that for some reason the client cant connect to the portmapper (RPC) of the server to mount its / via nfs"
[05:53] <cbx33> capt_kirk, ko
[05:53] <cbx33> right
[05:53] <cbx33> not reading above
[05:53] <cbx33> does each server have a DNS entry
[05:53] <cbx33> either on a dns server
[05:53] <cbx33> or in hosts?
[05:53] <capt_kirk> both labs are 6.10.  pretty vanilla.  I haven't done anything fancy.
[05:54] <cbx33> hmm
[05:54] <capt_kirk> cbx33, both have a dns entry and in both hosts
[05:54] <ogra_> you have a router to the internet ?
[05:54] <ogra_> and has the server one or two NICs ?
[05:54] <capt_kirk> the dns is on another box with squid.  in both host files, I've entered the other server and the dns lists both
[05:54] <capt_kirk> ltsp server has two nics
[05:55] <ogra_> so one is dedicated for the clients ?
[05:55] <capt_kirk> yes.  on a different subnet.  with dhcpd.conf setup by 6.10 clean install
[05:55] <ogra_> and the other one points to the outside world, right ?
[05:55] <capt_kirk> dhcpd is only serving addresses on the client side
[05:56] <capt_kirk> the outside world is static address on the other nic
[05:58] <capt_kirk> sorry.  we're having a hard time keeping a reliable connection into town tonight.
[05:59] <capt_kirk> what was the last message you received from me?
 the outside world is static address on the other nic
[05:59] <capt_kirk> last I received was "<ogra_>	and the other one points to the outside world, right ?"
[06:00] <capt_kirk> Rest was"<capt_kirk>	router is 192.168.1.1, ltsp is 1.2, dns is 1.3
[06:00] <capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	all static
[06:00] <capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	works every time when the internet is up. fails every time when it's down.
[06:00] <capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	took me a while to put the connection together.
[06:00] <capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	but now I can faithfully reproduce it by disconnecting the internet at any point from the nic, to the switch, to the router, or even in town.
[06:04] <ogra_> define "disconnecting the internet"
[06:04] <ogra_> what exacly do you disconnect ? the wire from the switch to 192.168.1.1 ?
[06:06] <capt_kirk> At first, it was that our WAN connection into town was down.  Different subnet downstream of the gateway router.  But now I can recreate it by disconnecting 192.168.1.1 from the switch
[06:06] <capt_kirk> I can also recreate it by taking down the WAN on the other side of 192.168.1.1.  So it's not dependent on the gateway being down.  It's truly dependent on being able to reach the greater internet.
[06:07] <capt_kirk> My local DNS is just a basic bind setup that connects to a dns server on the other side of our ISP, so my first thought is to agree with sbalneav that it seems like a dns problem
[06:08] <ogra_> disconnecting 192.168.1.1 from the switch is a bad idea, your server will try to send all packages through it first if it is still defined as the gateway...
[06:08] <capt_kirk> but that doesn't really make sense, because both servers are listed in the local dns, and dig works for both of them, even if I've disconnected from the internet.  (and they're both listed in each other's host files, which are first in the lookup order)
[06:08] <ogra_> s/gateway/default gateway/
[06:09] <ogra_> i'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with dns... nothing in ltsp5 uses any dns
[06:09] <capt_kirk> ogra: ahh, ok.  even the packets to the clients on the other subnet?  192.168.0.0 is the ltsp network.  192.168.1.0 is the outside world
[06:09] <ogra_> by defult everything on the cleint side is IP based
[06:10] <ogra_> so that shouldnt be affected by any dns breakage
[06:10] <capt_kirk> but I can recreate it even by taking down the network on the other side of the gateway.
[06:10] <cbx33> ogra_, did you get my pm?
[06:10] <cbx33> it's just a quick question
[06:10] <ogra_> cbx33, yes, i dont do any SoC management ... thats doko and Keybuk
[06:11] <cbx33> yes
[06:11] <cbx33> I nkow
[06:11] <cbx33> bear with me
[06:11] <capt_kirk> ok
[06:11] <ogra_> i will probably mentor one student who steps up for the parental control thing but apart from that i didnt plan to put any time into SoC
[06:11] <ogra_> *any*
[06:12] <cbx33> ok
[06:12] <cbx33> well.....check the pm......and lemme know your opinions
[06:12] <ogra_> sigh
[06:13] <ogra_> thats all very nice
[06:13] <cbx33> ok
[06:13] <ogra_> what shall i say about it ?
[06:13] <cbx33> well....
[06:13] <cbx33> dude
[06:13] <cbx33> you kinda run edubuntu
[06:13] <ogra_> talk to the SoC managers
[06:13] <cbx33> was hoping you could say....yes this would be good for edbunutu
[06:13] <cbx33> else there is no point putting the time and effort in if you don't think something would be useful
[06:13] <ogra_> yes, all kind of educational orineted apps are good for edubuntu
[06:14] <cbx33> ok
[06:14] <sayan_> \o/
[06:14] <cbx33> hey sayan_
[06:15] <sayan_> !
[06:15] <ogra_> be sure if the proposals are at google and have to be rated i will be doing that since i have to ... for now just follow the google procedures to get it on the list first
[06:16] <cbx33> it's all there brother ;)
[06:19] <capt_kirk> ogra, any pointers on how to troubleshoot further?  I haven't seen any differences in the server's log files when it's working and when it's failing.  And I haven't found any log files on the initramfs when the client has errored out.
[06:19] <capt_kirk> Does the client keep any boot logs, or is the text flowing by on the screen all that there is?
[06:38] <capt_kirk> ogra, should I submit a bug report against ltsp or the portmapper?  Any pointers on troubleshooting in the logs to get a better bug report would be appreciated.  Does the client keep any boot logs, or is the text flowing by on the screen all that there is?
[06:41] <sbalneav> capt_kirk: is this still the dhcp that's causing the trouble?
[06:44] <capt_kirk> sbalneav, yes, the same problem we were discussing on monday.  but it's more than just dhcp.  The first couple of clients can boot up and log on.  The next couple of clients get an ip address and kernel, then error out with a terminal screen that looks like the test I put on pastebin, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11351/  Then any other clients can't get an ip address from dhcp.
[06:45] <capt_kirk> I've isolated it to the internet being down.  I can faithfully reproduce it by either disconnecting the internet at the switch or by taking down the WAN on the other side of the gateway.
[07:04] <capt_kirk> sbalneav or ogra, any ideas on where else to look for the source?
[07:04] <capt_kirk> of the problem, I mean.
[07:11] <sbalneav> ok, here's what I'd suggest
[07:11] <sbalneav> use the strace command
[07:11] <capt_kirk> ok
[07:11] <sbalneav> do an:
[07:12] <sbalneav> strace -p <processid of the dhcp server> -o outputfilename
[07:12] <sbalneav> this will attach to the dhcp server, and start tracing he call stack.
[07:12] <capt_kirk> ahh.  how about the same thing for the portmapper?
[07:12] <sbalneav> when it hangs, or fails to do something, you'll be able to see WHICH hostname it's trying to look up, and figure out why it needs the inet there.
[07:13] <sbalneav> Same thing
[07:13] <capt_kirk> strace -p <processid of the portmapper> -o outputfilename
[07:13] <sbalneav> Do you have ldap going at your site?
[07:13] <capt_kirk> no.  i did, but it was a pain to set up.  waiting for the authentication server and client.  it was giving me a headache.
[07:14] <capt_kirk> (relative linux newbie...)
[07:14] <sbalneav> here's another one.  What does your /etc/nsswitch.conf file look like?
[07:14] <capt_kirk> just sec
[07:15] <capt_kirk> I think it's straight forward, but here it is: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11373/
[07:17] <sbalneav> Try this
[07:17] <sbalneav> for hosts
[07:18] <sbalneav> hosts: files dns [UNAVAIL=return] 
[07:18] <capt_kirk> ok
[07:18] <sbalneav> but also doing the strace will tell you what it's trying to look up.
[07:18] <sbalneav> you'll get a gethostbyname link
[07:18] <sbalneav> what do you get when you issue the hostname command?
[07:19] <capt_kirk> ok.  will try all those.  thanks for the pointers.
[07:19] <capt_kirk> just sec
[07:20] <capt_kirk> we're living on the college campus, and I can easily ssh into the college lab.  On it, I get the right host name, library
[07:20] <sbalneav> ok, /etc/hostname says library?
[07:20] <capt_kirk> I can't ssh into the secondary school lab, but I'll check it tomorrow morning.  It should be cams-ltsp
[07:20] <capt_kirk> yes
[07:20] <sbalneav> oh, the lib machine isnt the machine in question.
[07:21] <capt_kirk> they're identical.  with the same error.
[07:21] <sbalneav> what you want to make sure of is that hostname == /etc/hostname == line in /etc/hosts with that exact name resolving to a local ip address.
[07:21] <capt_kirk> two different suites.  same setup same issue.  just different naming schemes
[07:22] <capt_kirk> ahh.  now I understand.  Let me check that
[07:22] <sbalneav> What you want to avoid is, if the machine needs to look up it's own hostname, that it needs to make a DNS query for that.
[07:23] <capt_kirk> yes.  both hosts and hostname have the same name, library.  I'm sure it's the same at the secondary school, but I'll check in the morning.
[07:24] <capt_kirk> and I've set the hosts file to have the addresses for both the ltsp server and the dns server in each other's hosts files.  also the local bind server has both in it.
[07:25] <capt_kirk> sbalneav, thanks.  that gives me a good basis for troubleshooting tomorrow.  time for bed now, it's 9:30 pm here.  I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.
[07:27] <sbalneav> Okiedokie, let us know.
[07:29] <cliebow_> i see my feisty install passing addresses to the outside interface..
[07:29] <cliebow_> just my sandbox..
[07:34] <capt_kirk> sbalneav, i just reconfigured the WAN routers in town to let me ssh into the secondary school server, and both the hostname and hosts are the same, cams-ltsp.  so that shouldn't be causing the problem.  but I'll try the recommendations tomorrow.  night.
[07:35] <capt_kirk> thanks again for patience and support.  great os that is really helping students in both schools.
[07:35] <cbx33> sblaneav is it the old dns issue again?
[07:52] <LaserJock> hi Pete
[07:55] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[07:56] <cliebow_> cbx33: anywhere near right?? bzr get http://launchpad.net/~petesavage/trunk/tcm ~/tcm
[07:57] <cbx33> should be
[07:58] <cliebow_> it worked at home on my pos..here i get not a branch
[07:58] <pips1> hello again
[08:02] <cbx33> should work
[08:06] <pips1> cbx33: you tested it?
[08:06] <cbx33> tested what?
[08:06] <pips1> daily amd64 build
[08:07] <pips1> ah, your comment was for someone else
[08:07] <cliebow_> justme
[08:09] <pips1> heh
[09:57] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: goodnight!
[09:57] <edubuntugirl> Goodnight, highvoltage, have fun counting your electric sheep!
[09:58] <highvoltage> night edubuntero's!
[10:22] <LaserJock> sbalneav: pingy pingy
[10:30] <ajmitch> ping him & he runs away..
[10:30] <LaserJock> ajmitch: typical ;-)
[10:40] <kigurai> Does anyone have any directions on where to go to get more information if one is interested in making a web frontedn for the thin client manager as a Google Summer of Code project?
[10:52] <LaserJock> kigurai: what do you mean?
[10:52] <kigurai> LaserJock: Ubuntu has a proposed idea for the summer of code with that name, and I thought it sounded interesting.
[10:52] <LaserJock> yes
[10:52] <LaserJock> you want more info?
[10:52] <kigurai> But I have never touched edubuntu or the thin client manager :)
[10:53] <kigurai> Exactly
[10:53] <LaserJock> ah
[10:53] <kigurai> The abstract of the idea was not very...detailed ;)
[10:53] <LaserJock> kigurai: do you happen to have a Feisty install around?
[10:53] <kigurai> No, unfortunately not
[10:53] <kigurai> I was thinking of reinstalling after release
[10:53] <LaserJock> ok, np
[10:54] <LaserJock> I'm thinking it might not help that much if you don't have an LTSP server up
[10:54] <Burgwork> kigurai: I posted the idea and cbx33 is the maker of the thin client manager
[10:54] <Burgwork> basically, you need to create a simple web frontend to the existed thin-client-manager-backend
[10:55] <kigurai> Burgwork: So, what languages and techniques are preferred?
[10:55] <sayan_> pYthOn
[10:55] <Burgwork> well, tcm is written in phython
[10:55] <sayan_> o/
[10:55] <Burgwork> and we are big python people here in ubuntu/edubuntu
[10:56] <kigurai> Great, I love working with python :)
[10:56] <LaserJock> kigurai: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec is a spec about it
[10:56] <LaserJock> kigurai: first off, Thin Client Manager used to be called Student Control Panel
[10:57] <Burgwork> you only need one computer to test ltsp
[10:57] <Burgwork> install on one and use vmware to test a thin client
[10:57] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[10:57] <kigurai> Burgwork: I assume all of it are in the edgy repos?
[10:57] <Burgwork> you will want to be using feisty
[10:57] <LaserJock> you need to be able to run the dhcp off of the server though don't you?
[10:57] <Burgwork> yes, but that isn't too bad
[10:58] <LaserJock> what if your server is getting it's connection via dhcp
[10:58] <kigurai> Burgwork: Ah, well that won't be a problem after April 19 ;)
[10:58] <LaserJock> doesn't it get confused?
[10:58] <Burgwork> yep
[10:58] <Burgwork> two dhcp servers on the same subnet is a race condition
[10:58] <LaserJock> kigurai: the Beta will be out shortly (in the next few days)
[10:58] <Burgwork> kigurai: are you familiar with using twisted to do web stuff?
[10:59] <kigurai> LaserJock: I know, but I am gone for two weeks on vacation, so I thought I'd just wait...
[10:59] <kigurai> Burgwork: No, not really
[10:59] <Burgwork> ok
[10:59] <kigurai> Burgwork: But I did some webprogramming with python for work last summer
[10:59] <Burgwork> generally, from what I understand, most python web apps use python, rather than apache and mod_python
[11:00] <LaserJock> mod_python can be a pain
[11:00] <kigurai> I am pretty sure we were using python and not mod_python
[11:01] <kigurai> Thanks for the spec for StudentControlPanel, I'll take a look there.
[11:01] <Burgwork> kigurai: talk with ogra and cbx33 as well
[11:01] <Burgwork> cbx33 == pete savager
[11:01] <Burgwork> savage, rather
[11:01] <kigurai> Burgwork: I actually emailed Pete today about thisproject,
[11:01] <Burgwork> ok, rock
[11:02] <kigurai> And also about the Teacher gradebook which I was also interested in
[11:02] <Burgwork> umm, don;t we already have schooltool for that?
[11:02] <Burgwork> and regardless, the web stuff is probably a big enough project on its own
[11:03] <kigurai> Burgwork: I was considering applying for both but doing only one ;)
[11:03] <Burgwork> another idea you might want to consider is extensions to willow-ng, the content filter in Edubuntu
[11:03] <Burgwork> for that Amaranth is your person
[11:03] <Amaranth> haha
[11:03] <kigurai> Aha, will check on that as well. Also a python project I assume?
[11:03] <Burgwork> yes
[11:03] <Amaranth> willowng is far from anyone else being able to work on it
[11:04] <Amaranth> I _really_ need to sit down and at least set it up so that others working on it take it the way I think it needs to go
[11:04] <kigurai> Amaranth: Ok, I'll scratch that from my list then ;)
[11:04] <Amaranth> of course i haven't worked on it in about 6 months so... :/
[11:05] <Amaranth> Burgwork: The bling! It blinds me!
[11:05] <Burgwork> heh
[11:05] <Amaranth> and apparently gets me sponsorship to UDS
[11:07] <Amaranth> willowng work does sound interesting to do right now though
[11:07] <Amaranth> or work on a gnome-mag interface to compiz
[11:08] <sayan_> who knows edubuntu mentors? :p
[11:09] <Amaranth> btw, i've found that asking ogra what he thinks would be good to work on is a good way to get accepted
[11:10] <LaserJock> sayan_: mentor's for Edubuntu SoC projects?
[11:10] <sayan_> yep
[11:10] <sayan_> ill write my project
[11:10] <sayan_> =D
[11:10] <sayan_> math system for children
[11:10] <sayan_> o/
[11:10] <LaserJock> well, I'm trying to get signed up
[11:11] <LaserJock> my application for mentorship is "
[11:11] <LaserJock> "pending"
[11:11] <sayan_> maybe scott try to be my mentor
[11:18] <kigurai> So, how much programming experience do you have to have to get accepted as a SoC student? I'm having a hard time putting myself on some kind of skill scale...
[11:20] <Burgwork> kigurai: what is your dev experience?
[11:22] <kigurai> Burgwork: I was paid to program for a major pharmacy company last summer modyfing some python webb app. Also did some C/C++ for a computational program.
[11:22] <Burgwork> that is more than I have
[11:22] <kigurai> I have read computer engineering at the university for two years
[11:22] <kigurai> I think I am a quite skilled programmer in general, I have just never really dived into a project real deep...
[11:23] <Burgwork> well, the advantage of extending an existing project is you get to draw on the experience of the existing developers
[11:24] <Burgwork> oh, and one more thing about the tcm webfrontend
[11:24] <kigurai> Burgwork: Hit me :)
[11:24] <Burgwork> part of the reason we need a web frontend is for poor teachers stuck on windows
[11:24] <Burgwork> hence it needs to work in IE
[11:24] <Burgwork> heh
[11:24] <sayan_> omg
[11:24] <sayan_> :p
[11:24] <kigurai> Ah, well I have a windows partition, so it's no problem really ;)
[11:25] <sayan_> i have a windows partition too
[11:25] <sayan_> to play world of warcraft ^^
[11:25] <Burgwork> heh
[11:25] <stgraber> sayan_: WoW works fine with wine if you have an NVidia card :)
[11:25] <sayan_> i have ati
[11:25] <kigurai> sayan_: I am a civ4 player right now, only reason... Yeah, and to pack a project I am working on with py2exe
[11:26] <stgraber> sayan_: no luck
[11:26] <Burgwork> kigurai: it doesn't need to run on windows
[11:26] <sayan_> im a rogue lvl 70 o/
[11:26] <Burgwork> it just needs to be able to viewable in IE
[11:27] <kigurai> kigurai: Doesn't it? Well, I need to test it in Windows anyway so... :)
[11:27] <kigurai> Ah, speaking abput differnet things I guess, sorry
[11:27] <Burgwork> yep
[11:27] <Burgwork> it would run on the ltsp server, which woudl be edubuntu
[11:27] <Amaranth> hmm, i wonder if it's possible to switch from bzr to git without losing history
[11:28] <Burgwork> tailor can probably do it
[11:28] <kigurai> Burgwork: Exactly what functionality is the web interface suppsoed to provide?
[11:28] <Burgwork> kigurai: view screens, lock screens, turn off internet on clients, start/stop programs on clients
[11:29] <Burgwork> pretty much everything but share screen from teacher to student
[11:29] <kigurai> Hmm, I guess the hard part would be to get video embedded then?
[11:29] <Burgwork> the video wall? no diea
[11:30] <kigurai> Guess you could perhaps grab screenshots at regular intervals if one has to...
[11:31] <Burgwork> well, there is already a backend written
[11:31] <Burgwork> all you need to do is interface with it
[11:31] <kigurai> Burgwork: Well... that helps I guess ;)
[11:31] <kigurai> Burgwork: Sweet
[11:31] <kigurai> Is it possible to view the backend code online somewhere?
[11:32] <Burgwork> you can pull down the source or find out where cbx33 keeps his code
[11:32] <sayan_> cbx33 is a nice guy :D
[11:33] <Burgwork> he is
[11:33] <kigurai> Burgwork: I tried fooling around inside launchpad earlier today, but did not find any code :|
[11:33] <kigurai> Guess I'll have to ask cbx33 then
[11:33] <kigurai> Or, where is the source located?
[11:34] <kigurai> Guess I could always download it
[11:39] <sayan_> guys i gtg
[11:40] <sayan_> i have a test friday :(
[11:40] <sayan_> cya :)
[11:40] <LaserJock> cya
[11:42] <cliebow> kigurai:from what i can understand ogra used  vnc2swf in lieu of x11vnc to capture client desktops..
[11:43] <cliebow> i have a bzr link to tcm
[11:43] <kigurai> cliebow: Ah, sounds like that would make things quite a lot easier...
[11:43] <cliebow> sudo bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~petesavage/tcm/trunk ~/tcm
[11:44] <cliebow> i still use teachertool woth an extra button to  enable x11vnc on clients an capture client desktop
[11:45] <kigurai> cliebow: Why the "sudo"?
[11:45] <cliebow> oh..ubuntu deprsctes login as rot
[11:45] <cliebow> more or less
[11:45] <cliebow> getting dark here
[11:46] <kigurai> "deprsctes"?
[11:46] <cliebow> ahhh..lights
[11:46] <cliebow> deprecates
[11:47] <kigurai> ahh...
[11:47] <Burgwork> cliebow: isn't teachertool written in fltk?
[11:47] <kigurai> Guess I'll have to start with a "sudo apt-get install bzr" then ;)
[11:48] <Burgwork> teachertool, from what I have seen, isn't really that user friendly
[11:49] <cliebow> well..for me i love it.tells me what user is on what client..what processes they are running..and the button i added to view desktops..either view oly or takeover..gives me the functionality i need
[11:50] <Burgwork> yep, but you need to understand thigns like processes, etc.
[11:50] <cliebow> so i can nx to a remote school..and take over a desktop
[11:50] <cliebow> i guess..it works for me anyway..
[11:51] <Burgwork> well, given we are talking about this in an irc chan...
[11:52] <cliebow> i use an  icewm desktop so can see when the cpu is maxxed..one click tells me who.then i can view-only their desktop and see if it is justified..open an nedit session and speak with the user..
[11:52] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:52] <LaserJock> cliebow the Edubuntu cop
[11:53] <cliebow> then if they give me any shit...log em off and take away their firefox..usually
[11:53] <cliebow> saying a .ot since i am an anarchist at heart
[11:54] <cliebow> Burgwork, i still use the old python teachertool
[11:55] <cliebow> but i am Seriously interested in what Pete has done..
[11:57] <cliebow> ^_^  ^_`
[12:05] <LaserJock> Burgwork: btw, it's Keybuk and doko doing SoC
[12:05] <Burgwork> ah
[12:06] <LaserJock> I still confuse Scott and Colin :/
[12:06] <crimsun> keybuk and cjwatson?
[12:06] <LaserJock> yes
[12:06] <cliebow> Soc is?
[12:06] <LaserJock> keybuk and kamion
[12:06] <LaserJock> ;-)