[12:49] <geser> shouldn't be bugs marked "private" be only visible to subscribers? or has something changed?
[12:50] <lifeless> what bug are you talking about specifically?
[12:50] <thumper> geser: I think they are also visible to members of the bug contact team for the product
[12:51] <geser> bug #93964
[12:51] <Ubugtu> Bug 93964 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/93964 is private
[12:52] <geser> is it because "Ubuntu Bugs" is subscribed to it?
[12:52] <beuno> geser: I get: Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
[12:52] <thumper> geser: Me too, I get forbidden as well.
[12:52] <lifeless> one sec
[12:53] <ajmitch> geser: I can view it
[12:53] <lifeless> indeed
[12:53] <lifeless> anyone in ubuntu bugs can see it, because ubuntu bugs is subscribed
[12:53] <ajmitch> was ubuntu-bugs automatically subscribed?
[12:53] <pochu> I can see it
[12:54] <lifeless> and QA team is a member of ubuntu bugs
[12:54] <ajmitch> ah, ubuntu-qa is team owner
[12:54] <lifeless> ajmitch: also member of
[12:54] <ajmitch> right
[12:54] <lifeless> https://beta.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugs/+members
[12:54] <lifeless> bdmurray: ping
[12:54] <lifeless> bdmurray: ^
[12:54] <geser> and motu is member of ubuntu-qa
[01:02] <bdmurray> lifeless: yeah
[01:02] <bdmurray> I think kees submitted a bug about this
[01:02] <bdmurray> the privacy thing
[01:02] <lifeless> bdmurray: summary: security bugs are visible to everyone in motu/core-dev.
[01:02] <lifeless> ok
[01:02] <lifeless> you know, thats fine :).
[01:03] <bdmurray> actually I think there are visiable to all of ubuntu bugs
[01:03] <bdmurray> or can be
[01:03] <lifeless> well, ubuntu bugs contains only ubuntu-qa
[01:03] <lifeless> but yes, ubuntu-qa is in the path
[01:03] <bdmurray> depending on how long it takes to mark a new bug as private
[01:03] <lifeless> new bugs can be created private
[01:03] <jml> lifeless: not from the web interface, afaik
[01:04] <bdmurray> not right away though it is further in the bug submission process
[01:04] <lifeless> jml: yes
[01:05] <LarstiQ> it can be, from the complicated form
[01:05] <bdmurray> see bug 90401 as an example
[01:05] <Ubugtu> Bug 90401 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/90401 is private
[01:06] <jml> ahh.
[01:06] <bdmurray> of how Ubuntu Bugs is subscribed to a private bug
[01:06] <lifeless> oooh, if we cant create security bugs upfront from the guided form, thats kinda bag
[01:07] <lifeless> as is http://launchpad.net/bugs/93964
[01:07] <bdmurray> And I think kees has a bug submitted about that or he added to an lp bug
[01:07] <lifeless> now, AIUI bugs *created* private dont get ubunut-bugs subscribed
[01:07] <bdmurray> lifeless: they also go to the mailing list which is public
[01:08] <lifeless> bdmurray: yes, after the current mail-timeout delay
[01:08] <bdmurray> bug 92953 is another example
[01:08] <Ubugtu> Bug 92953 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/92953 is private
[01:08] <lifeless> anyhow, I jus twanted to be sure you knew.
[01:09] <bdmurray> okay, I'm aware
[01:09] <Kmos> get a OOPS-445BC2
[01:09] <Kmos> *got
[01:36] <kidcharles> Is there an administrator here?
[01:36] <thumper> kidcharles: what's the problem?
[01:36] <kidcharles> Well, I replied to an e-mail sent automatically notifying me of a reply on a bug report, and the reply included a personal e-mail.
[01:36] <kidcharles> Is it possible to have this information removed from the bug report discussion?
[01:39] <thumper> kidcharles: what about a support request?
[01:39] <thumper> at least it is traceable then
[01:40] <kidcharles> thumper: How might I do that? I had a hard time figuring any way to solve this except for joining the irc channel for info.
[01:41] <thumper> kidcharles: I'm looking as I know you can but I haven't done it
[01:41] <kidcharles> thumper: Okay, thanks for your help.
[01:43] <thumper> kidcharles: ask a question on the launchpad project, and link in the bug reference that you want the comment ammended on
[01:43] <thumper> that would be my guess
[01:45] <kidcharles> thumper: That sounds reasonable, by "launchpad project" do you mean the mailing list or something else?
[01:48] <thumper> kidcharles: http://launchpad.net/launchpad
[01:52] <kidcharles> thumper: I think I've got it figured out now, thanks for your prompt help thumper!
[02:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94289 in launchpad-bazaar "Branch page UI shouldnote that there are pending writes to a branch as soon as the writes happen" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94289
[03:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[03:00] <ajmitch> hello mpt
[03:01] <Lumiere> *yells like a stuffy old guy* it's the middle of the night... keep it down you annoying kids!
[03:03] <Hobbsee> hey mpt!
[03:10] <mpt> hello hello hello
[03:15] <thumper> hi mpt
[03:25] <Trickser> hi, how is the best way to look for changelogs of packages?
[03:25] <Trickser> thanks
[03:25] <Hobbsee> Trickser: aptitude changelog packagename, or changelogs.ubuntu.com
[03:26] <Trickser> Hobbsee: thanks. Does Adept also has this functionality?
[03:27] <Hobbsee> feisty's does
[03:28] <Trickser> edgy not?
[03:29] <Hobbsee> Trickser: dont thikn so.  i dont run edgy anymore
[04:28] <Fujitsu> Is gangotri meant to be holding bugmail for 20 minutes?
[05:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94321 in launchpad "status change email has wrong 'From'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94321
[06:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94324 in launchpad "debian package changelogs not visible? (or not discoverable)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94324
[08:32] <carlos_> morning
[08:33] <Fujitsu> Hi carlos_.
[08:33] <LaserJock> hi carlos_ 
[08:57] <mdke> morning carlos 
[08:58] <mdke> carlos: another favour. Can you upload this file [1]  to this location [2] ?
[08:58] <mdke> [1]  https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/feisty/xubuntu/desktopguide/desktopguide.pot
[08:58] <mdke> [2]  https://translations.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/xubuntu-docs/+pots/desktopguide
[08:59] <mdke> (I don't have permission)
[08:59] <carlos> sure
[08:59] <carlos> mdke: once I'm done with all templates
[08:59] <carlos> I will give ubuntu-doc team the ownership of every template
[08:59] <mdke> great, thanks
[08:59] <carlos> so you can do future uploads directly
[08:59] <mdke> what's the status with kubuntu-docs at the moment? I see one new template there
[09:00] <carlos> I started yesterday, but had to leave before finishing it
[09:00] <carlos> I renamed already about-kubuntu
[09:00] <carlos> and it should have latest version
[09:00] <carlos> and approved the one you saw
[09:01] <mdke> right
[09:07] <mdke> carlos: can you tell me when xubuntu-docs and kubuntu-docs are done, and I'll give the translators a push
[09:08] <carlos> mdke: ok
[09:09] <mdke> thanks
[09:44] <Fujitsu> Anybody around that can look into an OOPS (OOPS-445BB11)?
[09:46] <BjornT> Fujitsu: sure. the oops isn't synced yet so that i can look at it, but i'll take a look at it in a few minutes.
[09:46] <Fujitsu> BjornT: Thanks. I was attempting to decline a release nomination.
[09:56] <BjornT> Fujitsu: you are not using javascript? i can reproduce it by going to the approve/decline page, but it works if you click on one of the buttons that become visible if you click on the link (and have javascript enabled)
[09:57] <Fujitsu> It oops when I click on the approve/decline link on the main bug page.
[09:57] <Fujitsu> *OOPSes
[09:58] <Fujitsu> Hm, it's using JS to bring up the buttons now.
[09:58] <Fujitsu> How strange.
[10:02] <BjornT> Fujitsu: ok. i'll filed bug 94351 about it.
[10:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 94351 in malone "OOPS when opening a bug nomination's +editstatus page" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94351 - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)
[10:03] <Fujitsu> BjornT: I think it was probably that the JS didn't load on that page load, as beta is doing its thing where it randomly returns a blank response for some requests.
[10:03] <BjornT> right, that could be it.
[10:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94351 in malone "OOPS when opening a bug nomination's +editstatus page" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94351
[10:41] <dand> any known problems with the po uploads in Rosetta?
[10:41] <dand> like import failing although msgfmt -cv shows no errors on that po?
[10:45] <mrevell> dand: let me check
[10:45] <dand> I've added a comment to https://beta.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/88831
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 88831 in rosetta "Import of correct po-file fails" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:45] <dand> mrevell: cheers
[10:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94362 in malone "Application tabs and action menus missing for bug pages not hanging off the bug page directly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94362
[10:54] <carlos> dand: there are some known bugs 
[10:54] <dand> carlos: I'm trying to fix https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-gnome-ro-base/+bug/46421/
[10:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46421 in language-pack-gnome-ro-base "the update-mananager localization is malformed" [High,Confirmed]  
[10:55] <carlos> dand: if you find a problem, please report a bug report and attach the .po file so we can check what's wrong with it
[10:55] <carlos> and fix the parser
[10:55] <carlos> dand: that one
[10:55] <carlos> I already added a comment (to a duplicate, I realise of that error this morning...)
[10:56] <carlos> dand: it's fixed now, it was a problem in our system and a broken plural form expression for Romanian
[10:56] <carlos> I need to do small change to force a new export from Rosetta and next language pack will ship a fixed version
[10:56] <dand> carlos: cool, thanks!
[12:08] <cprov> good morning !
[12:12] <carlos> mdke: all kubuntu templates and the xubuntu one are now approved, they should be imported in an hour or so
[12:12] <carlos> mdke: I'm going to do the translations now
[12:12] <carlos> cprov: morning!
[12:14] <cprov> carlos: morning. Did you sort your doubts about Packaging from yesterday ?
[12:15] <carlos> cprov: yeah, the system is not ready to provide such reference from Rosetta
[12:15] <cprov> carlos: what else do you need ?
[12:16] <carlos> cprov: that someone cares about links between productseries and sourcepackages
[12:16] <carlos> to have valid information 
[12:18] <cprov> carlos: I see, It might get filled faster if we make Packaging edit action AnyPerson (as mentioned in LPML)
[12:19] <carlos> well,it's not about getting more people to do that link but getting people that knows what they are doing, getting it done
[12:19] <carlos> I have seen some products linked with packages that are unrelated
[12:19] <carlos> (that was a while ago already...)
[12:21] <cprov> carlos: sooner or later they will get it right. Possibly when they figure out what are the benefits ;)
[12:21] <carlos> I guess :-P
[12:43] <G0SUB> mrevell
[01:05] <mrevell> gosub: hey
[01:06] <Kmos> slashdot power
[01:06] <Kmos> 503 Service Unavailable
[01:06] <Kmos> :)
[01:06] <mrevell> Kmos: ?
[01:10] <Kmos> mrevell: just talking about slash was offline two refreshs for me
[01:10] <Kmos> after it works
[01:10] <Kmos> lol
[01:10] <Kmos> mrevell: don't worrie, isn't launchpad :)
[01:10] <mrevell> Kmos: phew :)
[01:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94393 in launchpad "timestamps are confusing on beta.lp.net" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94393
[01:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94397 in rosetta "gtk2-engines should be translatable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94397
[01:45] <highvoltage> anyone around who can answer some rosetta questions for myself and SynrG?
[01:45] <SynrG> tuxpaint translations are not getting turned around into updates in debian/ubuntu tuxpaint packages in a reasonable timeframe.  how is this supposed to work?  i maintain tuxpaint in debian
[01:45] <SynrG> i had a czech translator complain that his translations in rosetta for tuxpaint didn't make it into the ubuntu package for a very long time
[01:46] <SynrG> at the time i was ignorant of how rosetta translations were supposed to flow back upstream, so i just recommended he submit his translations directly upstream.
[01:47] <carlos> highvoltage, SynrG: At the moment, Rosetta doesn't have any way to do automatic sending to upstream
[01:47] <carlos> so we ask translators to do exactly what you suggested
[01:47] <carlos> about translations deployment, we do it in form of language packs
[01:47] <SynrG> ah.  that's ... suboptimal
[01:47] <carlos> so the package doesn't get it directly, but the language pack installs the .po files
[01:48] <SynrG> i see.  so if a package is structured already to include it's own .po files ... ?
[01:48] <carlos> SynrG: we know it, but we are still working on finding the best way to handle that in a way that we don't annoy upstream or their upstream translators
[01:48] <SynrG> tuxpaint is massively translated
[01:48] <carlos> SynrG: we import them automatically into Rosetta on build time
[01:49] <highvoltage> SynrG: I've noticed that, even here in South Africa it supports a lot of local languages
[01:49] <SynrG> it's my "poster child" for translations in debian jr. :)
[01:49] <carlos> and strip those translations from the Ubuntu binaries so we don't conflict with language packs
[01:49] <SynrG> so i want it, at least, to be working as per plan
[01:49] <seb128> BjornT: could you make launchpad stop sending mails to user when an another bug is marked duplicate?
[01:49] <seb128> we get daily complain about that at the moment
[01:50] <SynrG> carlos: how could i structure tuxpaint better so that we can eliminate unnecessary ubuntu forking?
[01:50] <SynrG> i am working with debian-live on a livecd for debian jr
[01:50] <SynrG> it would be nice to produce some localised jr discs
[01:51] <carlos> SynrG: well, If there is a fork, Ubuntu is who should prevent that to happen... but thanks for the offer
[01:51] <SynrG> but it furthers my own goals
[01:51] <SynrG> livecd space is at a premium
[01:51] <carlos> what we are planning to do
[01:51] <SynrG> including locales not applicable to the local users of a livecd makes no sense
[01:51] <carlos> is to create bzr branches with all translations in Rosetta updated from time to time
[01:52] <BjornT> seb128: maybe. there's a bug reported about it, i'll take a look at it to see if we can do something to improve the situation.
[01:52] <carlos> so you, as upstream would be able to fetch them quite easily
[01:52] <carlos> SynrG: well, for livecd, as we strip translations outside packages and leave them in language packs
[01:53] <seb128> BjornT: with apport we have bug #79062 for example
[01:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79062 in gstreamer0.10 "gaim crashed with SIGSEGV in _gst_parse_yylex()" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79062 - Assigned to Sebastian Drge (slomo)
[01:53] <seb128> BjornT: it get like a dup a day atm
[01:53] <carlos> is quite easy to strip languages that are not useful for the target audience, but I'm not sure how's this related with any fork problem in Ubuntu
[01:55] <SynrG> when i hear "strip from binary" i read it as "fork"
[01:55] <SynrG> or else clarify what you mean by "strip"
[01:56] <carlos> SynrG: we don't touch the source code
[01:56] <carlos> so it's not a fork
[01:57] <carlos> what we do during the build time
[01:57] <SynrG> but if i were to do the same thing in debian-live i would not have a "pure debian" system
[01:57] <SynrG> i'd have a binary that doesn't match what's in the archive
[01:57] <SynrG> i don't want to do that because that would mean my jr livecd would be a fork
[01:58] <carlos> SynrG: well, if you want to use the same approach with a Debian 'pure' distribution is a bit difficult
[01:58] <carlos> because Ubuntu has 'language packs' which are .deb packages with a bunch of .mo files inside
[01:58] <SynrG> clearly there are parts of ubuntu build architecture that are different than what i'm used to in debian :)
[01:58] <carlos> and it's part of Ubuntu infrastructure
[01:58] <carlos> so it's not trivial to do that with Debian
[01:59] <SynrG> right.  i see some models for modularlization of language packs (e.g. openoffice) in debian
[01:59] <SynrG> is that my best option?
[02:00] <carlos> SynrG: I think so, yes
[02:00] <carlos> but if it's just to include a single .mo file per language... is a bit of space waste
[02:00] <SynrG> i wonder how the archive maintainers will take to having 50 to 60 new tuxpaint binary pkgs for individual locales :P
[02:01] <SynrG> well, tuxpaint provides translations for stamps & even for audio files
[02:01] <SynrG> it's not all representable in .mo
[02:01] <BjornT> seb128: ok, i'll look at it later today.
[02:02] <SynrG> e.g. ogg files of the names of digits
[02:02] <seb128> BjornT: thank you
[02:05] <kiko__> morning
[02:05] <SynrG> hm.  i'm not sure if it's really worth it to split, though:
[02:05] <SynrG> Installed-Size: 20168
[02:06] <SynrG> that's my tuxpaint-stamps-default package.  a very small percentage of that is localised ogg files.  the rest is a tuxpaint.mo per locale.
[02:07] <SynrG> oh.  i forgot ...
[02:08] <SynrG> per stamp there is a .txt file containing translations
[02:08] <SynrG> this structure allows additional stamps + translations + oggs to be easily added by users
[02:13] <SynrG> how will rosetta work for this?
[02:14] <carlos> SynrG: well, in that case, that would justify a new package per language
[02:15] <carlos> SynrG: right now, we only handle .po files, the others remain in the package in the same way Debian works
[02:15] <SynrG> but it really is 50 or 60 packages.  i exaggerate not
[02:15] <SynrG> i seriously doubt if debian archive maintainers will smile on this
[02:16] <carlos> SynrG: ask them before discarding that idea, you never know
[02:17] <SynrG> i have heard from other DDs they consider tuxpaint's handling of locales "broken" because it includes translations not in tuxpaint.mo
[02:17] <SynrG> but i don't know how else to do it and preserve modularity
[02:17] <SynrG> and also support localised oggs
[02:18] <SynrG> i have so few models to compare with :P
[02:18] <carlos> SynrG: well, you can always use .po files for everything 
[02:19] <carlos> adding an msgid string per filename
[02:19] <carlos> so the translators only need to add a new .ogg file and note its filename in the .po file
[02:19] <carlos> SynrG: that's the easier solution I can think on, without knowing its details
[02:20] <SynrG> po files for everything ... per individual stamp?
[02:27] <SynrG> right now everything is associated by filename.  there would be a tuxpaint.png (the stamp) a tugboat.txt (all translations of the name of the stamp), tugboat.ogg (default) and tugboat_desc_LOCALE.ogg per LOCALE.  this structure allows for packaging of tuxpaint stamps in a modular fashion, including whichever sets (and there are hundreds of these) are desired
[02:29] <carlos> SynrG: what's exactly 'the stamp' ?
[02:30] <SynrG> an image a child clicks on to add as an element to their drawing
[02:30] <SynrG> sorry, s/tuxpaint.png/tugboat.png/ in the above
[02:31] <carlos> so that's shared across languages
[02:31] <SynrG> yes
[02:31] <carlos> only the name is changed
[02:31] <SynrG> correct
[02:31] <SynrG> it's this business of arbitrary "stamp sets" that is the key problem
[02:31] <carlos> SynrG: and you read tugboat.txt on run time to get its translations
[02:31] <SynrG> exactly
[02:32] <carlos> SynrG: then, I think is quite easy to move that inside the .po file
[02:32] <SynrG> there are hundreds of stamps.  not everyone wants all stamps
[02:32] <carlos> as you don't really need to add the ogg filenames
[02:32] <SynrG> these are grouped in categories so they can be easily identified and split up
[02:32] <oojah> Mmm, philately.
[02:32] <SynrG> :)
[02:32] <oojah> :)
[02:33] <carlos> SynrG: I need to leave to have lunch, do you mind to continue with this later?
[02:33] <SynrG> sure.
[02:33] <carlos> ok
[02:33] <SynrG> thanks for your comments so far
[02:33] <carlos> you are welcome
[03:03] <BjornT> time for this week's non-au reviewer meeting
[03:04] <BjornT> == Agenda ==
[03:04] <BjornT> * Roll call * Next meeting * New raw SQL coding standard - RobertCollins * Queue status.
[03:04] <BjornT> who's here?
[03:04] <salgado> me
[03:05] <salgado> flacoste?
[03:05] <flacoste> me
[03:06] <BjornT> * Next meeting
[03:06] <pbn> Hello, hum, the printed output of bug reports on launchpad.net is quite ugly, and there seems to be no "printable view" option... uhhh would be nice if the printed result wasn't that ugly...
[03:06] <BjornT> next meeting will be 28 Mar, 1400 UTC as usual, unless someone objects
[03:07] <flacoste> fine
[03:07] <salgado> fine with me too
[03:08] <BjornT> == New raw SQL coding standard ==
[03:08] <kiko> == I hate this docstring heading format ==
[03:08] <BjornT> this was brought up on the meeting on monday, and it's actually not only about raw sql.
[03:08] <flacoste> kiko, me too
[03:09] <kiko> TAKE THAT PQM
[03:09] <BjornT> it's basically just to make you pay attention to ordering of sql results when reviewing.
[03:09] <flacoste> we have a LaunchpadHackingFAQ entry on that now i think
[03:10] <BjornT> yeah, right, so make sure to have read that.
[03:10] <BjornT> also read DatetimeUsageGuide about fmt:approximatedate and fmt:displaydate
[03:10] <BjornT> mark sent an e-mail about that to the list.
[03:10] <kiko> BjornT, we have always tried to enforce deterministic ordering in tests, right?
[03:10] <kiko> I mean, as reviewers? flacoste asked me about this on a patch of mine today
[03:11] <kiko> or yesterday
[03:11] <BjornT> kiko: right. it's mostly that mark got bitten by that some sql query wasn't uniquely ordered, so he got a test failure.
[03:11] <flacoste> kiko, we do, the main idea is if the raw SQL query needs ordering in the test or in the query
[03:11] <kiko> BjornT, who hasn't? but okay, let's pay extra-special attention there.
[03:12] <kiko> right. we know the situations in which one or the other makes sense.
[03:12] <flacoste> the policy is if the results is going to be displayed to the user, it should have builtin ordering otherwise the test should do the ordering
[03:12] <kiko> BjornT, I'm a bit confused about the date formatters. we already have a few formatters, right? or were they only for intervals?
[03:13] <BjornT> kiko: yeah, they were only for intervals. i wonder if they are obsolete now...
[03:13] <kiko> BjornT, no, mark's formatter is for absolute dates, isn't it?
[03:14] <BjornT> kiko: right. but i think most, if not all, usage of the interval formatters first calculate how old the object is, then calls the formatter.
[03:14] <BjornT> but maybe we have some other use cases for them as well.
[03:14] <kiko> hmmmm.
[03:15] <kiko> I don't like the new formatters very much yet. but let's wait and see how much public praise or hate they get before cleaning up the rest?
[03:15] <kiko> maybe I just need to get used to them.
[03:15] <flacoste> kiko: i think actually mark already replaced all of them
[03:15] <flacoste> and we already got a bug report about it
[03:16] <flacoste> asking to revert the change
[03:16] <kiko> yeah, but we got bugs when we changed the bugmail format as well
[03:16] <kiko> people don't like change like that very much
[03:16] <BjornT> yeah, we'll see what happens. i'm willing to give it a try.
[03:16] <kiko> we should wait for a bit
[03:17] <salgado> can't we just add a title containing the actual date _and_ time?
[03:17] <salgado> don't we have that already?
[03:17] <kiko> we already have that salgado 
[03:17] <kiko> just mouseover a bug comment
[03:17] <flacoste> the problem with that is the discoveribility of that feature
[03:17] <salgado> right, then I don't think it's a real issue for users
[03:17] <kiko> which suxors
[03:18] <kiko> it'd be nice if there was an icon that suggested click or mousability
[03:18] <kiko> but more icons? 
[03:18] <salgado> only a few of them will actually need the actual date, and I'm sure they'll figure it out at some point
[03:18] <salgado> or we can tell them 
[03:18] <kiko> we can send you to their homes if they don't right salgado 
[03:19] <BjornT> i wouldn't like to have another icon
[03:19] <kiko> okay, agree to reevaluate this in two weeks time
[03:19] <kiko> let's leave it as-is for now and endure the bug reporters
[03:20] <BjornT> ok. moving on.
[03:20] <BjornT> == Queue status ==
[03:21] <BjornT> there are currently 14 open reviews, which is 13 less than on monday (if the last summary is correct), so good work everyone!
[03:21] <BjornT> there are 7 reviews that are more than two days old, but it's nice to see that we don't have many over a week old.
[03:21] <BjornT> it's only one, and that's a big one.
[03:21] <kiko> I didn't do any of mind so I suck
[03:21] <flacoste> kiko: you don't have any
[03:22] <kiko> well I was going to do some little ones
[03:22] <kiko> but never mind that
[03:22] <BjornT> if you look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/ you can see that branches that are more than 2 days old now have a red background
[03:22] <kiko> they are having a period!
[03:22] <kiko> or their periods I think is more correct
[03:23] <salgado> flacoste, since you took the cataclysm from my queue, feel free to hand some other ones to me if you want
[03:23] <kiko> salgado, you already have 4 to review fwiw
[03:23] <flacoste> yeah, you seem pretty loaded too
[03:23] <salgado> well, they're all small and not old at all
[03:23] <kiko> salgado, have you given up on global-karma, btw?
[03:23] <BjornT> flacoste: how's it going with cprov's branch?
[03:23] <salgado> on the other hand, flacoste's one are old
[03:24] <flacoste> BjornT: i am about half way through it, i think i expect to finish it today
[03:25] <flacoste> salgado: you could probably take jml's auto-bug-branch, that would offload me a lot
[03:25] <flacoste> after that I only have three small branches from BjornT, so that is usually not a lot of work ;-)
[03:26] <BjornT> flacoste, salgado: i could take that branch, my queue isn't that bad.
[03:26] <salgado> will do
[03:26] <salgado> okay, BjornT won
[03:26] <flacoste> great, thx BjornT!
[03:26] <BjornT> ok
[03:26] <kiko> moving on
[03:26] <BjornT> == Other business ==
[03:26] <flacoste> i have a branch that is 19 days old
[03:26] <flacoste> in stub's queue
[03:27] <BjornT> anything else?
[03:27] <kiko> flacoste, accost SteveA so he accosts stub 
[03:27] <kiko> i've found that works :-P
[03:27] <flacoste> when adding a branch to stub's queue, should I email him?
[03:27] <kiko> you should chat with SteveA :)
[03:27] <BjornT> flacoste: send an e-mail to stub, nagging him about it.
[03:27] <flacoste> ok
[03:27] <flacoste> will do
[03:28] <BjornT> flacoste: i think usually you don't have to mail him, but it's a good idea to do so if it takes more than a few days to get a reply.
[03:28] <ddaa> mh... what's the purpose of the "Bug details" portlet now that the details are visible at the top of the page?
[03:28] <BjornT> ok. meeting ended.
[03:28] <kiko> ddaa, is security etc visible there?
[03:28] <kiko> thanks BjornT 
[03:29] <ddaa> kiko-afk: good question
[03:29] <kiko-afk> ddaa, maybe it's unnecessary now...
[03:29] <salgado> thanks BjornT 
[03:29] <ddaa> BjornT should know :)
[03:29] <kiko-afk> I personally think that the details portlet should be merged with the action menu
[03:29] <kiko-afk> but I refrain from making any more innovative comments for now
[03:30] <ddaa> I personally think it should be fully displayed in the main column.
[03:30] <ddaa> not the portlet itself, but its contents
[03:30] <BjornT> i think what's not in the portlet should be merged into the page itself.
[03:31] <ddaa> BjornT: s/not// ?
[03:31] <BjornT> ddaa: right :)
[03:35] <stub> flacoste: The branch you said won't be landing before 1.0?
[03:35] <flacoste> stub: yes
[03:36] <stub> I thought that meant I could keep it bumped to the bottom of my queue. I can review it tomorrow if you want.
[03:37] <flacoste> stub: well, yes, it wasn't urgent, but still, i'd like to get it off my stack, so "in the coming days" is fine with me
[03:39] <popey> I have a dumb question, I'd like to set up a bazaar repo in launchpad
[03:39] <popey> the faq says that I should visit launchpad.net/bazaar, but that isnt clear on what to do next 
[03:39] <flacoste> ddaa: somebody needs you help ^^^
[03:40] <flacoste> popey, ddaa should be able to help you
[03:40] <popey> ta
[03:41] <pbn> any way to fix the ugly pages you get when you print bug reports from launchpad ?
[03:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94437 in launchpad "people page showing internal URL for gpg keyserver" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94437
[03:58] <ddaa> popey: ping
[03:59] <ddaa> so, you want to have a bzr branch hosted on launchpad, right?
[03:59] <popey> yes please
[04:00] <ddaa> popey: are you part of the beta team?
[04:00] <popey> yes
[04:00] <popey> beta launchpad?
[04:00] <ddaa> so check code.beta.launchpad.net and click on the "help" tab on the left.
[04:00] <ddaa> there are generic instructions there on how to upload a branch
[04:01] <ddaa> if you have trouble understanding them (I know they are a bit too generic to be easy to understand)
[04:01] <ddaa> ask here and I will guide you.
[04:02] <popey> well. I just tried to create a branch
[04:03] <ddaa> popey: the way to create a hosted branch on launchpad is using "bzr push" on the sftp server at bazaar.launcphad.net
[04:03] <ddaa> currently the web ui only allows creating mirror branches (there's a bug and a spec about this problem, and we'll fix it)
[04:08] <Kmos> [14:06]  <BjornT> next meeting will be 28 Mar, 1400 UTC as usual, unless someone objects
[04:08] <Kmos> it's correct ? :)
[04:09] <BjornT> Kmos: that's referring to a reviewer meeting, not that launchpad user meeting (that is later today)
[04:10] <Kmos> ups
[04:10] <Kmos> =)
[04:11] <Kmos> BjornT: thx
[04:11] <BjornT> Kmos: np. thanks for trying to help :)
[04:12] <Kmos> :)
[04:16] <ddaa> popey: are you making progress?
[04:16] <popey> sorry, work stuff getting in the way
[04:16] <ddaa> no hurry
[04:17] <popey> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~alanpope/+junk/obuntu-server
[04:17] <popey> +junk is interesting
[04:17] <ddaa> prior art: Andrew Tridgell "junkcode" repository
[04:17] <popey> what should the branch url be if not sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~obuntu ?
[04:17] <popey> (The) Andrew Tridgell
[04:18] <ddaa> let's do this step by step
[04:19] <ddaa> popey: what's your personal page on Launchpad (the one you go when you click on your name in the top right)?
[04:19] <popey> smart move, shall I ditch the branch first ?
[04:19] <ddaa> popey: let's not jump to conclusions
[04:19] <popey> wilco
[04:20] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~alanpope
[04:20] <ddaa> ok. Is there a project existing in launchpad for the branch you want to upload?
[04:21] <popey> hmm, there is a team
[04:21] <ddaa> but no project, right?
[04:21] <popey> correct
[04:21] <popey> sorry for my newbieness
[04:21] <ddaa> no problem, the UI sucks
[04:22] <ddaa> ok, would you like to grant commit access to this branch to all the members of a team?
[04:22] <ddaa> let's assume not, you can change that later anyway
[04:22] <popey> given its an unmoderated team, probably not, no
[04:23] <popey> can i selectively choose who can?
[04:23] <ddaa> no, it's by team
[04:23] <popey> (and do I need to create a project?)
[04:23] <ddaa> no, you do not _need_ to create a project
[04:23] <popey> so should I set the team to be moderated now, before others join?
[04:23] <popey> ok
[04:23] <ddaa> though it's encouraged
[04:23] <popey> ok
[04:24] <ddaa> mh...
[04:24] <ddaa> just looking at https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~alanpope/+junk/obuntu-server
[04:24] <ddaa> it's a bug that you are allowed to enter a URL like this
[04:24] <ddaa> I know it appears to make sense to register an hosted branch
[04:25] <ddaa> so, I presume you want the branch name to be "obuntu-server"
[04:25] <popey> yes
[04:25] <popey> as an aside, i am just registering a project, is that okay at this point?
[04:26] <ddaa> popey: so yes, you should move the existing branch out of the way, you can set its status to "Abandoned" and assign it to the project "obsolete-junk", that's a garbage bin.
[04:26] <ddaa> popey: you can register the project when you like, branches can be freely moved around launchpad.
[04:27] <popey> you said assign the old one to project obsolete-junk, do you mean product?
[04:27] <ddaa> yes, we do not say "product" anymore, but "project" and "project group".
[04:27] <ddaa> for consistency with what the rest of the world call a "project".
[04:28] <popey> ok, done, i think
[04:29] <ddaa> popey: it's still there, you did not change the product... err, project
[04:30] <popey> oh man
[04:30] <popey> my head hurts
[04:30] <ddaa> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/%7Ealanpope/+branches?field.lifecycle=Any+Status&field.lifecycle-empty-marker=1
[04:30] <ddaa> sorry about this
[04:30] <popey> no, please dont apologise, not your fault
[04:30] <popey> sorry for taking your time
[04:30] <ddaa> yes it's my fault
[04:30] <ddaa> I designed this stuff
[04:30] <popey> oh, it's *your* crap code then? :)
[04:31] <ddaa> oh, no other people helped me design and implement it
[04:31] <ddaa> but it's still largely my fault
[04:31] <popey> ok https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~alanpope/obsolete-junk/obuntu-server/+edit
[04:31] <popey> product is obsolete-junk
[04:31] <ddaa> mh... right, sorry
[04:32] <ddaa> then you can "bzr push sftp://alanpope@bazaar.launchpad.net/~alanpope/+junk/obuntu-server"
[04:33] <ddaa> from this point, it should just all work
[04:33] <popey> bzr from where?
[04:33] <ddaa> from within the branch you want to upload
[04:33] <popey> we have no code yet..
[04:34] <popey> registering it for others to upload to..
[04:34] <ddaa> hu
[04:34] <ddaa> in that case you want to create a team
[04:34] <popey> i have one
[04:35] <ddaa> membership of this team will give permission to upload to the branch
[04:35] <ddaa> then create an empty branch with "bzr init"
[04:35] <ddaa> and upload this
[04:36] <ddaa> Once the branch has been uploaded once, instruction for other people to upload to are displayed on the branch page.
[04:36] <ddaa> and _those_ are easy step by step instructions
[04:36] <popey> alan@wopr:~/obuntu-server$ bzr push sftp://alanpope@bazaar.launchpad.net/~alanpope/+junk/obuntu-server
[04:36] <popey> Created new branch.
[04:36] <popey> \o/
[04:36] <ddaa> popey: okay, at this point it's in /~alanpope
[04:36] <ddaa> so you are the only one to be able to commit to it
[04:37] <popey> so it is
[04:37] <ddaa> so go to https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~alanpope/+junk/obuntu-server and click the "Reassign" action
[04:37] <ddaa> then assign it to the team of committers
[04:38] <ddaa> that will change the url of the branch to be below /~theteam
[04:38] <popey> no reassign option.. "change registrant"?
[04:38] <ddaa> right
[04:38] <popey> done
[04:38] <ddaa> you're set
[04:38] <popey> you are a star
[04:39] <ddaa> no, it sucks that the UI is hard to use
[04:39] <popey> indeed, but nice of you to take time to help
[04:39] <popey> big hugs
[04:39] <ddaa> *hug*
[04:41] <popey> one last thing
[04:41] <popey> can I now assign it to the obuntu project?
[04:41] <popey> by changing the branch details with no ill effect
[04:41] <ddaa> edit branch details
[04:42] <ddaa> the name of the project is in there
[04:42] <daviey> 'Author'?
[04:42] <ddaa> that will change the url of the branch, but no other ill effect
[04:42] <ddaa> popey: you might also want to change the author, too :)
[04:43] <ddaa> it's there so people can register branches they did not write and still give credit
[04:43] <ddaa> but at this point, any member of the team can edit the branch details
[04:43] <ddaa> or change the registrant, for that matter...
[04:44] <popey> right, i think thats it sorted
[04:44] <ddaa> looks good
[04:44] <popey> changed team to be moderated though to be on the safe side
[04:45] <ddaa> it's a good idea anyway
[04:45] <ddaa> protect you from people who collect team memberships like pokemons and then complain about the spam
[04:45] <popey> lol
[04:45] <popey> (worklol)
[04:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94458 in launchpad "bugs.beta/pillar and bugs.beta/pillar/+bugs are different" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94458
[04:55] <popey> daviey: being brave and adding a second branch
[04:55] <daviey> woooaaah there sailor
[04:59] <popey> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~obuntu woot
[05:05] <ddaa> it's not really difficult, just not discoverable
[05:24] <mvo> hello! who should I talk to about https://launchpad.net/bounties ? I met someone at FOSDEM very interessted in this stuff and he was wondering if I could give him a contact person
[05:35] <ddaa> mrevell: hey?
[05:35] <mrevell> hi ddaa
[05:36] <ddaa> mrevell: can you answer mvo?
[05:36] <mrevell> hey mvo
[05:36] <mvo> hello mrevell
[05:36] <mrevell> mvo: I'm a good person to contact about Launchpad matters.
[05:37] <mrevell> mvo: When you say the person is interested in it, what exactly do they want to do?
[05:37] <mvo> mrevell: ok, I will forward your mail adress then and tell me he should contact you. he seems to be interessted to use the bounty system but things that some stuff is missing that he would like to see (e.g. that people can add money to a exisiting bounty)
[05:38] <mrevell> mvo: Cool, thanks.
[05:38] <mrevell> mvo: I'll speak to him/her and keep you informed.
[05:38] <mrevell> mvo: Unless you don't want to be kept informed :)
[05:38] <mvo> mrevell: thanks
[05:43] <salgado> hey ddaa, have you seen https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+ticket/4300?
[05:43] <ddaa> yes, waiting for the lucene import to complete to reply
[05:43] <salgado> cool
[05:44] <ddaa> would have replied earlier if there was a way to reply to a ticket without marking it either "answered" or "need info" :(
[05:44] <ddaa> in such cases I just to say "okay, in progress" and not change the status.
[05:59] <statik> me
[06:00] <ddaa> ?
[06:00] <ddaa> ha users meeting
[06:00] <Kmos> heeh
[06:00] <ddaa> mrevell: come on you ale sipping slacker!
[06:00] <barry> me
[06:00] <mrevell> statik: ha :)
[06:00] <mrevell> Welcome to the Launchpad users' meeting for 21st March 2007.
[06:00] <mrevell> You can find the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadUserMeeting/2007-03-21
[06:01] <mrevell> Our agenda for today is:
[06:01] <mrevell> Welcome
[06:01] <mrevell> Agenda
[06:01] <mrevell> Introduction to the Launchpad developers are who present
[06:01] <mrevell> Invitation to beta team
[06:01] <mrevell> Annoyance of the week
[06:01] <mrevell> User questions
[06:01] <mrevell> Next meeting
[06:01] <mrevell> Thanks to those who have posted questions. If you didn't post a question to the agenda, but would like to ask one, there may be time at the end.
[06:01] <mrevell> Several Launchpad team members added their names to the agenda.
[06:01] <mrevell> mrevell
[06:01] <mrevell> statik (ElliotMurphy)
[06:01] <mrevell> bac (BradCrittenden)
[06:01] <mrevell> kiko (ChristianReis)
[06:01] <mrevell> barry (BarryWarsaw)
[06:01] <mrevell> mpt (MatthewPaulThomas)
[06:01] <mrevell> ddaa (DavidAllouche)
[06:01] <mrevell> Are you here guys?
[06:01] <mrevell> thanks ddaa
[06:01] <statik> here
[06:01] <mpt> I'm here
[06:01] <barry> here
[06:02] <heno> here
[06:02] <bac> here
[06:02] <salgado> I'm half around too
[06:02] <mrevell> thanks guys
[06:02] <Kmos> i'm here :) GothicX
[06:02] <mrevell> I'll get the obligatory invitation to the beta team out of the way first!
[06:03] <mrevell> As you probably know, we're running a beta team for the new 1.0 Launchpad user interface! You're welcome to join. Sign up at 
[06:03] <mrevell> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers/+members
[06:03] <mrevell> Okay, let's move straight onto the "Annoyance of the week". Is there anything about Launchpad that has frustrated you this week?
[06:04] <mpt> (This is the point where we discover nobody else is here)
[06:04] <kiko> I am on the phone
[06:04] <mrevell> I'll take that silence as a ringing endorsement of the Launchpad service and team :)
[06:04] <alex_muntada> the unsubscribing from "also notified", but GothicX goes first
[06:04] <Kmos> hehe
[06:04] <mrevell> mpt: or possible that
[06:05] <mpt> ;-)
[06:05] <Kmos> mrevell: people need to think
[06:05] <mrevell> Kmos: Ah, okay :)
[06:05] <mrevell> Kmos: Do you want to go first, as invited to by alex_muntada?
[06:05] <Kmos> Why Rosetta approve New translation: field with the same text of English: field ? (GothicX)
[06:05] <Kmos> yeah
[06:05] <Kmos> alex_muntada: thx
[06:05] <mrevell> Kmos: Ah, that's for our user questions section in a moment.
[06:05] <heno> Tollef says pages still take 0s to load for him on beta
[06:05] <alex_muntada> Kmos: you're welcome :)
[06:06] <heno> (though they are down to 1s for me now)
[06:06] <mrevell> alex_muntada: As your name is also on the user questions section, I assume you're waiting for that too.
[06:06] <mpt> heno, 0s? That's pretty fast
[06:06] <alex_muntada> mrevell: yes
[06:06] <heno> eh, 10s
[06:06] <ddaa> it's been slower than than for me today
[06:07] <mrevell> kiko: You've been doing various tests etc to see where speed improvements can be made. I know that we rolled out some improvements last week, as well. Are any further speed improvements planned?
[06:07] <salgado> mrevell, kiko's afk
[06:08] <Kmos> mrevell: I've one question. why favicon must be load with https at launchpad ?
[06:08] <mrevell> salgado: Ah, okay.
[06:08] <Kmos>  <link rel="shortcut icon"
[06:08] <Kmos>           href="https://beta.launchpad.net/@@/launchpad" />
[06:08] <mrevell> salgado: thanks
[06:09] <mrevell> Kmos: As I understand it, every item on a page must be https, otherwise the security breaks. I assume that applies to the favicon too.
[06:09] <alex_muntada> Kmos: not doing so would bring browser complaint about mixing SSL and not-SSL stuff, I guess
[06:09] <Kmos> ah.. ok
[06:09] <mpt> where "the security breaks" means "Internet Explorer complains bitterly"
[06:10] <mrevell> heno: I'm sorry we can't offer an answer just at the moment, re speed. I know that it is the subject of ongoing work. I'll raise it again with the guys to see if we can get a status update.
[06:10] <mrevell> Okay, thanks everyone. If there are no further annoyances, I'll move on.
[06:10] <mrevell> 5
[06:10] <mrevell> 4
[06:10] <mrevell> 3
[06:10] <mrevell> 2
[06:10] <mrevell> 1
[06:11] <mrevell> Okay, user questions.
[06:11] <mrevell> Why Rosetta approve New translation: field with the same text of English: field ? (GothicX)
[06:11] <mrevell> GothicX == Kmos AFAIK
[06:11] <Kmos> :-)
[06:12] <mrevell> Kmos: I'm not sure I understand your question.
[06:12] <mpt> Kmos, you mean if you accidentally enter an exact copy of the English text as a translation, Launchpad will happily accept it?
[06:12] <mpt> And you want some kind of warning?
[06:12] <Kmos> mpt: exactly
[06:12] <mpt> ok
[06:12] <Kmos> mpt: yeah.. some warning and don't accept it
[06:13] <Kmos> warning user that can't be the same text
[06:13] <mpt> I guess it probably hasn't occurred to us to do that check
[06:13] <Kmos> :)
[06:13] <mpt> though we do have translation teams for Australian English, UK English, and so on
[06:14] <mpt> And for those many of the translations will be the same as the original strings
[06:14] <Kmos> that's why I asked for it! by my translation experience, i found some user that translated to portuguese (portugal) the same text in english
[06:14] <mpt> so warning them every time would be annoying
[06:14] <Kmos> yeah.. but the english in australian isn't the same.. (not always i understand)
[06:14] <mpt> However, I can see how it would be useful for translators into non-English languages
[06:14] <mpt> I'll report it as a bug
[06:15] <Kmos> maybe in near future that can be implemented.. for now there is more important things to fix 
[06:15] <Kmos> :)
[06:15] <Kmos> mpt: thanks
[06:15] <mpt> yes :-)
[06:15] <Kmos> next user question =)
[06:15] <Kmos> hehe
[06:15] <mrevell> thanks Kmos for your questions and thanks mpt for your responses!
[06:15] <mrevell> What about [WWW]  support contact in preferred languages only ? (AlexMuntada)
[06:16] <mrevell> The link is for bug 81369
[06:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81369 in launchpad-answers "support contact in preferred languages only" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81369
[06:16] <mrevell> alex_muntada: Thanks for the clarification :)
[06:16] <alex_muntada> :-D
[06:17] <mrevell> flacoste_lunch is, erm, on lunch at the moment, and he's answered the bug report itself.
[06:18] <mrevell> salgado: Is this something you know about?
[06:18] <alex_muntada> mrevell: he said that there was some discussion around this bug and i hoped i could get some news about it
[06:18] <alex_muntada> see comment #3 https://beta.launchpad.net/launchpad-answers/+bug/81369/comments/3
[06:18] <salgado> mrevell, I can't tell anything that's not said in the bug report already. I didn't participate in the discussions about that
[06:18] <mrevell> alex_muntada: As far as I know, there isn't any news at present. However, I'll ask flacoste_lunch for a status update.
[06:18] <mrevell> thanks salgado
[06:19] <mrevell> alex_muntada: I'll then post the status update to launchpad-users mailing list.
[06:19] <alex_muntada> mrevell: okay, thanks
[06:19] <mrevell> Unless any other LP devs can help alex_muntada, I'll move onto the next question.
[06:19] <salgado> alex_muntada, basically, the rationale for always adding English to one's preferred language is that if they can use launchpad they know how to read english at least
[06:20] <alex_muntada> salgado: sure, but the amount of English support tickets is much more bigger than in other languages
[06:20] <alex_muntada> that makes support tracker not so friendly if you plan to use it for your language only
[06:21] <salgado> hmmm
[06:21] <salgado> I thought the use case was about people not speaking english
[06:21] <alex_muntada> i mean, there's even no way to filter by language
[06:22] <mpt> So you might be willing to sign up as a support contact for Ubuntu, but only if you'll receive only the questions in X language, not be swamped by the English ones?
[06:22] <alex_muntada> mpt: right
[06:22] <salgado> so, how about having a way for users to specify the languages in which they want the notifications?
[06:22] <alex_muntada> but having a way to search for language specific tickets is needed too
[06:22] <salgado> we have that already, don't we?
[06:23] <alex_muntada> salgado: having a language for notifications would do, indeed
[06:24] <alex_muntada> let me try again to find by language, but iirc there wasn't a way to do it
[06:24] <salgado> no, there isn't 
[06:24] <salgado> you can only search questions across all of your preferred languages or across all languages
[06:25] <alex_muntada> and preferred languages does include English always
[06:25] <alex_muntada> imho, it shouldn't
[06:25] <mpt> That's a good point
[06:25] <alex_muntada> my rationale is...
[06:26] <mpt> English never shows up as being a preferred language on your Preferred language page
[06:26] <alex_muntada> if no preferred language is defined, then use English; otherwise use strictly preferred languages
[06:26] <mpt> but I guess it is underneath
[06:26] <salgado> mpt, right, it's added implicitly
[06:27] <alex_muntada> and that's the problem
[06:28] <salgado> istm that providing an option for people to choose the languages in which they want to receive notification doesn't make sense
[06:29] <alex_muntada> salgado: yeah, it doesn't solve the problem in the web ui
[06:29] <salgado> maybe the right thing would be to not implicitly add English, but that's something that requires more discussion
[06:29] <mrevell> salgado: Perhaps I should raise this in tomorrow's LP devs meeting?
[06:29] <mpt> salgado, it's an easy way to subdivide the questions
[06:29] <alex_muntada> salgado: what's the problem about not adding English implicitly? just curious...
[06:30] <mpt> In the future perhaps there will be so many questions asked about Ubuntu that we have to subdivide them anyway, lest nobody at all want to be a support contact
[06:30] <salgado> mrevell, yeah, at least then we can schedule some time with the relevant developers to discuss it
[06:30] <mrevell> Thanks mpt and salgado for your discussion of the question and alex_muntada for raising it. I'll mention this in tomorrow's Launchpad developers meeting, which you're welcome to attend, at 14:00 in this channel.
[06:30] <salgado> alex_muntada, it won't be a trivial change and there are lots of things we'll need to reconsider
[06:31] <salgado> alex_muntada, the fact that we add English always makes a lot of other things easier, IIRC
[06:31] <alex_muntada> 14:00 utc, i guess
[06:31] <mrevell> Next question is our last and is also from alex_muntada
[06:31] <mrevell> alex_muntada: Apologies, yes
[06:31] <alex_muntada> i'll try to be here
[06:31] <salgado> (that's one of the reasons why we did it)
[06:31] <mrevell> How to get removed from "also notified" list in launchpad-answers after unsubscribing as a support contact? (AlexMuntada)
[06:33] <alex_muntada> here's the explaination about my question: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-March/001259.html
[06:34] <salgado> alex_muntada, you mention bug 52671 which is already fixed, no?
[06:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52671 in launchpad-answers "Support contact implementation shortcomings" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/52671 - Assigned to Francis J. Lacoste (flacoste)
[06:34] <mrevell> alex_muntada: As flacoste_lunch is still at lunch, this another one that we'll have to raise on launchpad-users mailing list.
[06:34] <mpt> salgado, I think the problem is from questions asked before 52671 was fixed
[06:34] <matsubara> I chatted with flacoste about that bug today
[06:35] <salgado> right
[06:35] <matsubara> he said it's possible to cook up a SQL that clean up those
[06:35] <alex_muntada> mpt: right
[06:36] <matsubara> but if the user isn't a support contact anymore, it's not possible to know if he was subscribed before the bug was fixed.
[06:36] <mpt> right
[06:36] <alex_muntada> matsubara: there's a difference between being subscribed and on the "also notify" list
[06:36] <mpt> alex_muntada, so probably the best thing to do is to make a support request :-) asking to be removed from the subscriber list
[06:37] <mpt> since it's probably a problem that applies only to you and maybe a couple of others
[06:37] <matsubara> alex_muntada: do you have an example support request where that happened?
[06:37] <alex_muntada> the problem isn't being subscribed, i tried to subscribe and i was removed from "also notify", but when i tried to unsubscribed, then i ended up again in "also notify"
[06:38] <alex_muntada> matsubara: https://beta.launchpad.net/launchpad-answers/+bug/52671
[06:38] <matsubara> also it's likely that those support requests are old ones which have low activity, so perhaps it's better to just unsubscribe on a person by person basis.
[06:38] <mpt> alex_muntada, there are no links to support requests in that bug reportt
[06:38] <alex_muntada> mpt: the problem is that i don't know how many tickets i'm in "also notify" and opening a support request for each of them is too much work
[06:39] <alex_muntada> mpt: sorry, my error
[06:39] <mpt> alex_muntada, if you don't want to be subscribed to any at all, it would probably be fairly easy to tell the DB to unsubscribe you from all of them
[06:39] <alex_muntada> https://answers.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad/+ticket/4309 will do
[06:40] <mpt> or otherwise, to unsubscribe from all that were created before a particular date
[06:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94495 in rosetta "Require confirmation when translation is (accidentally?) identical to original string" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94495
[06:41] <alex_muntada> mpt: just don't want to be on any of the "also notify" in answers.launchpad.net, i'm subscribed explicitly to some tickets and i'd like to keep them
[06:43] <alex_muntada> mpt: do you want me to make a support request explaining that? i'm afraid that other people like Melvyn Murphy are also affected by this
[06:43] <matsubara> alex_muntada: you're subscribed to that specific support request because you're a support contact for launchpad
[06:43] <mpt> alex_muntada, I think that would be best. Maybe ask Melvyn to submit one too.
[06:44] <mrevell> alex_muntada: thanks for your questions and thanks to mpt, matsubara and salgado for your discussion. I'd like to move on to see if there are any other user questions from people who didn't add them to the agenda.
[06:44] <alex_muntada> matsubara: because i was in the past, i'm not anymore afaik
[06:44] <matsubara> alex_muntada: you still are in the list: https://answers.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad/+tickets
[06:44] <mpt> oh!
[06:44] <mpt> Then disregard my suggestion, alex_muntada should just unsubscribe :-)
[06:45] <mrevell> Adri2000: please go ahead!
[06:45] <Adri2000> or rather a suggestion, why not linkify "debian bug #nnnn" on malone, like "bug #nnnn" links to the corresponding malone bug
[06:46] <mpt> Adri2000, because nobody has got around to implementing it yet -- it's something that's been suggested before, iirc
[06:46] <mpt> one moment, I'll find the bug report
[06:46] <alex_muntada> matsubara: oh! i see the difference... i unsubscribed from ubuntu and forgot about launchpad... thanks for pointing that to me :)
[06:47] <mpt> Adri2000, it's bug 67145
[06:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67145 in malone "Linkify Debian bug numbers in comments correctly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67145
[06:47] <matsubara> alex_muntada: you're welcome.
[06:47] <mrevell> Adri2000: Anything else?
[06:47] <Adri2000> mpt: ok, already known, is that easy enough to fix?
[06:48] <mpt> That seems like a fix-it-friday bug, yes
[06:48] <Adri2000> great :)
[06:48] <Adri2000> thanks
[06:48] <mrevell> Rinchen: Got a FiF bug here for you - 67145 :)
[06:48] <mrevell> Okay, thanks guys. Any other user questions?
[06:49] <mrevell> 5
[06:49] <mrevell> 4
[06:49] <mrevell> 3
[06:49] <mrevell> 2
[06:49] <mrevell> 1
[06:49] <Kmos> mrevell: and mine? =)
[06:49] <Kmos> hehe
[06:50] <alex_muntada> for the record, removing myself as a contact from launchpad got me out of "also notify" too :)
[06:50] <mpt> hooray
[06:50] <mrevell> Ah, a last minute one from Kmos: I like to see bug 91988 fixed.. it's not so hard to do it, and maybe it will speed up translation page, because will be less languages on the select box"
[06:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91988 in rosetta "Make suggestions from should use prefered user settings" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91988
[06:50] <mrevell> alex_muntada: good to hear!
[06:51] <alex_muntada> thank you guys
[06:51] <mrevell> carlos: Can you help with bug 91988?
[06:52] <mrevell> Kmos: As we're coming to the end of the hour, I think we should move that question to the launchpad-users mailing list. Are you signed-up?
[06:53] <Kmos> mrevell: yes
[06:53] <mrevell> Thank you everybody for your participation!
[06:53] <mrevell> I'd like to set the time for the next meeting.
[06:53] <mrevell> We've had meetings at 09:00 UTC and 17:00 UTC, previously.
[06:53] <Kmos> maybe 17:00 it's the better one for everyone
[06:54] <mrevell> Kmos: Not for people in Australia :)
[06:54] <Kmos> hehe
[06:54] <mrevell> let's go for 09:00 again next week.
[06:54] <alex_muntada> fair enough
[06:54] <mrevell> Next meeting 2007-03-28 09:00 UTC
[06:54] <mrevell> Thanks all.
[06:54] <mrevell> Meeting ends!
[06:55] <Kmos> :)
[06:55] <mrevell> thanks kmos :)
[06:55] <Kmos> u're welcome!
[07:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94507 in malone "Have /bugs/NNNN/+text include number of duplicates" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94507
[07:52] <LaserJock> darn it, missed another Launchpad Userse meeting
[07:53] <kiko> that alarm clock is going out of style
[07:53] <LaserJock> well, I had a late night and so a late start so it all happened on the way into work
[07:53] <LaserJock> and since I really really should IRC while I drive ...
[07:54] <LaserJock> *shouldn't
[07:54] <LaserJock> ;-)
[07:54] <ddaa> tsk
[07:54] <ddaa> real men twitter while driving
[08:05] <AlexExtreme> Is a launchpad admin there? I've hit a little problem :)
[08:05] <ddaa> kiko: ^
[08:06] <kiko> oi
[08:06] <kiko> what what
[08:09] <LaserJock> ddaa: are you the LP traffic controller? :-)
[08:09] <ddaa> apparently :)
[08:09] <ddaa> I should probably redirect everything to mrevell
[08:10] <AlexExtreme> Ah nvm, I managed to fix my problem
[08:35] <G0SUB> mrevell
[08:36] <kiko> GOTO 1
[08:38] <SteveA> PLEASE COME FROM 100
[09:04] <slipttees> ola pessoal
[09:05] <slipttees> algum brasileiro
[09:06] <kiko> idioma errado
[09:07] <slipttees> sorry
[09:07] <slipttees> :)
[09:07] <kiko> :)
[09:07] <slipttees> launchpad-br
[09:07] <slipttees> ?
[09:07] <kiko> nope. #launchpad. :)
[09:07] <slipttees> someone brazilian guys
[09:07] <slipttees> :)
[09:08] <kiko> why don't you ask what you want to ask? :)
[09:08] <slipttees> abou rosetta
[09:08] <slipttees> about
[09:08] <kiko> okay
[09:08] <slipttees> rosetta is free software
[09:08] <slipttees> ?
[09:12] <slipttees> kiko, ?
[09:12] <slipttees> im need roseta source code for using on facul
[09:12] <kiko> it's a web service. I'm not sure that matters though :)
[09:12] <slipttees> :(
[09:12] <slipttees> ok ok sorry
[09:27] <AlinuxOS> hello I'm working on debian-installer translation right now...of course with rosetta, but in head line I have this message: "There are 6 errors in the translations you provided. Please correct them before continuing."
[09:27] <AlinuxOS> how can I correct them ?
[09:28] <kiko> AlinuxOS, hopefully the translations with errors are highlighted in the form?
[09:28] <AlinuxOS> kiko, no...
[09:28] <AlinuxOS> highlighted with some color ?
[09:29] <kiko> hmmm, yeah
[09:29] <AlinuxOS> red ?
[09:29] <AlinuxOS> or something other ?
[09:30] <kiko> yeah.
[09:30] <kiko> carlos, danilos?
[09:30] <AlinuxOS> kiko, no nothing.
[09:31] <carlos> AlinuxOS: hi
[09:31] <AlinuxOS> carlos, Holla!
[09:31] <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer/ka/+translate?field.alternative_language=ru&show=need_review&start=50
[09:31] <carlos> AlinuxOS: the errors are not highlighted directly, but you should get a concrete error message near the english strings
[09:31] <AlinuxOS> I'm here now
[09:32] <AlinuxOS> one finished translation how can I visualise only erroneous strings ?
[09:32] <AlinuxOS> ones finished...
[09:33] <carlos> well, when we show the 'there are errors' means that we didn't save it
[09:33] <carlos> we render again the messages with errrors, with the concrete problem we found so you can fix it before continuing
[09:33] <carlos> if you don't fix it and click on Save & Continue, your translation is lost
[09:33] <kiko> carlos, but he's saying that no strings are highlighted
[09:34] <AlinuxOS> kiko, exaclty I don't see anything...
[09:34] <AlinuxOS> sincerely ... :(
[09:34] <carlos> AlinuxOS: could you try it again to get the error message and take a screenshot?
[09:35] <AlinuxOS> carlos, I have 78 strings to do...
[09:35] <AlinuxOS> I don't want to lost allredy done translations :)
[09:36] <carlos> you don't lose anything
[09:36] <carlos> try translating those 78 strings
[09:36] <carlos> if we don't show any error message on the top part of the form, those will be saved
[09:37] <carlos> if we show it, you take a screenshot so I can figure what's going on
[09:37] <carlos> in worse case, you will get 10 messages with errors
[09:37] <carlos> if there is an error in the form, the others without error will be saved anyway
[09:39] <AlinuxOS> carlos, ok.
[09:39] <carlos> you will need several screenshots to capture the whole form content
[09:51] <LaserJock> carlos: quick question about translation for the doc team
[09:51] <carlos> LaserJock: sure
[09:52] <LaserJock> does Rosetta just pick up any .pot that's in the ubuntu-docs package?
[09:54] <LaserJock> also we just introduced an edubuntu-docs package into Main, does that need anything special done?
[09:56] <carlos> LaserJock: I need to approve the new .pot files
[09:56] <carlos> well, either danilo or I
[09:56] <LaserJock> ok
[09:56] <carlos> LaserJock: I will take care of it
[09:57] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if we even have pot files yet
[09:57] <carlos> when did you upload the package?
[09:58] <LaserJock> it's been in Main since the 12th
[09:58] <carlos> I don't see any .po or .pot file for edubuntu-docs
[10:00] <LaserJock> I don't see any .pots in the svn
[10:00] <LaserJock> I don't think we generated any yet
[10:01] <LaserJock> but that's fairly straightforward to do
[10:01] <LaserJock> what I'm trying to figure out is I've got a .desktop in there that I want to get translated too
[10:01] <LaserJock> but I'm not really sure how to make a .pot for it
[10:02] <LaserJock> it's too bad my en_GB -> en_US translation career never took off, I'd like to figure this stuff out better
[10:02] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:02] <carlos> LaserJock: take a look to intltool 
[10:03] <carlos> it has a README that explains how to prepare .desktop files to be translated using .po files
[10:04] <LaserJock> carlos: oh, very cool
[10:05] <LaserJock> this might take some work :/
[10:05] <LaserJock> we don't really use the makefiles and have no po/
[10:05] <SynrG> re
[10:05] <SynrG> LaserJock: heya
[10:06] <LaserJock> SynrG: geeze, what are you doing in here? :-)
[10:06] <SynrG> asking a few questions about how rosetta stuff flows back to tuxpaint, which i maintain in debian
[10:07] <LaserJock> ah, excellent
[10:07] <SynrG> also i was discussing with carlos earlier how tuxpaint might be better structured
[10:07] <LaserJock> do you maintain all ot tux* or just tuxpaint?
[10:07] <SynrG> but i don't see any easy way
[10:07] <SynrG> just tuxpaint
[10:07] <SynrG> but i hang out with the other tux4kids devs on #tux4kids
[10:08] <carlos> SynrG: I'm a bit busy to continue with that discussion but I will download the package tomorrow and see whether I could give you the best solution from my point of view....
[10:08] <SynrG> carlos: thanks
[10:10] <Trickser> hi, i think that the  acroread 7.0.9-0.0.ubuntu0.6.10 (source) package in Kubuntu is bad packaged, because when i load it, it claims to be version 7.0.8
[10:10] <crimsun> Trickser: incorrect, that's an upstream problem.
[10:10] <Trickser> crimsun: what does it mean?
[10:10] <crimsun> we've verified numerous times that it is in fact 7.0.9; upstream simply didn't change the splash.
[10:10] <Fujitsu> Trickser: It means that it's Adobe's problem, so we can't fix it.
[10:10] <Trickser> oh, ok
[10:10] <Trickser> thx
[10:11] <kiko> it means SEP field!
[10:11] <Fujitsu> kiko: Fortunately.
[10:12] <Fujitsu> And it's not even in multiverse any more, so it's entirely SEP.
[10:12] <LaserJock> carlos: is there a way to do the .pots by hand or just upload the .desktop to Rosetta?
[10:13] <SynrG> if it were SEP, we wouldn't be able to see it
[10:13] <kiko> SynrG you have bionic eyes I swear
[10:14] <Fujitsu> SynrG: Ssh.
[10:14] <carlos> LaserJock: we don't support import .desktop files directly
[10:15] <carlos> LaserJock: about doing the .pots by hand, I guess you could do it, yes
[10:15] <carlos> intltool is just a way to do it automatically
[10:16] <LaserJock> carlos: sure, I just have like 2 short lines that will never change
[10:17] <LaserJock> and actually all it is is s/Ubuntu/Edubuntu/ in 2 places
[10:21] <kiko> hot and juicy permaslugs from sambauers. Fixes #619
[10:25] <carlos> LaserJock: as far as I know, ubuntu-docs doesn't have any .desktop file to translate
[10:25] <LaserJock> carlos: no, it doesn't, but I'm putting one in edubuntu-docs
[10:25] <LaserJock> they put the ubuntu one in the gnome-panel package
[10:25] <LaserJock> perhaps partly because of this sort of issue
[10:33] <carlos> I see
[10:34] <carlos> LaserJock: well, in that case you could get that .pot and .desktop files and change the string
[10:35] <LaserJock> carlos: is that possible?
[10:35] <LaserJock> I'm not sure where to find the .pots
[10:35] <carlos> yeah, it smells like an ugly hack
[10:35] <carlos> but that will work
[10:35] <carlos> LaserJock: GNOME generates it on build time
[10:36] <carlos> LaserJock: but usually, you can get it executing 'intltool-update -P' inside the po/ directory
[10:36] <LaserJock> ah
[10:36] <carlos> LaserJock: you will get more messages than the ones you are interested
[10:37] <carlos> so just remove everything except for the first one, the header, and the ones that appear inside the .desktop file you are interested on
[10:47] <AlinuxOS> carlos, what about OO.org menu localised translation ?
[10:47] <AlinuxOS> which module should I translate ?
[10:47] <carlos> AlinuxOS: openoffice.org
[10:48] <carlos> there is a ooo-build template with those entries
[10:48] <AlinuxOS> I hope it's separated, cause searching them in entire module is quite difficult.
[10:56] <carlos> not really
[10:56] <carlos> look for .desktop
[10:57] <carlos> every message has a reference to the file from where it comes from
[10:59] <LaserJock> carlos: worked wonderfully
[10:59] <LaserJock> carlos: it doesn't matter what the file name of the .pot is does it?
[11:00] <carlos> well, to use the translations, you need to specify a translation domain that, usually, is the filename except for the '.pot' part
[11:00] <carlos> the translation domain is specified in the .desktop file
[11:01] <LaserJock> ok, so edubuntu-about.desktop.pot is ok?
[11:07] <carlos> sure
[11:07] <carlos> the only requirement is that it's specific enough to prevent any collision with other packages
[11:08] <carlos> and that one looks like it's quite specific
[11:08] <LaserJock> and then will we get the translations back when we get the translations for the other .pots in edubuntu-docs?
[11:16] <AlinuxOS> carlos, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+lang/ka I've finished debian-installer and no error messages :)
[11:17] <AlinuxOS> should I download a .po file correct test and then update to rosetta ?
[11:18] <carlos> AlinuxOS: well, if there is no message error and no messages untranslated or with needs review status, everything went well...
[11:18] <AlinuxOS> carlos, ok
[11:18] <carlos> AlinuxOS: if you find it again, please, tell us with a screenshot of the concrete error so we can debug it better
[11:19] <carlos> LaserJock: well, if you are not going to use intltool, I guess is ok to just use language pack infrastructure to get those translations
[11:19] <carlos> LaserJock: so you only need to have the .pot file
[11:20] <AlinuxOS> and If I change something for example in downloaded .po file of debian-installer and then update it. what happens ? which string is considered more-less important ? my offline change or on-line string ?
[11:22] <LaserJock> carlos: I'm sorry to be a pain. Where would the .desktop end up in the if I use the language pack infrastructure?
[11:23] <carlos> the .desktop should be installed with your edubuntu-docs package
[11:24] <carlos> Inside /usr/share/applications
[11:24] <carlos> LaserJock: GNOME and KDE will care to lookup translations directly from language packs
[11:25] <LaserJock> ok, so do I install the untranslated version?
[11:25] <LaserJock> and have the .pot in the source package
[11:25] <carlos> right
[11:25] <carlos> that way, Rosetta will add that template to be translated
[11:26] <carlos> and next language pack will include translations that will be used automatically 
[11:26] <LaserJock> ok, so how do I make sure that they two get connected
[11:26] <LaserJock> as in, that when the .desktop is installed it will know where to get the translations
[11:26] <LaserJock> so I need something in the .pot for that?
[11:29] <AlinuxOS> carlos, ?
[11:29] <carlos> LaserJock: nothing should be done in the .pot file
[11:29] <carlos> LaserJock: you need to add something like this to the .desktop file:
[11:30] <carlos> X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gedit
[11:30] <LaserJock> ahhh
[11:30] <carlos> changing gedit with the .pot filename (without the .pot file)
[11:30] <LaserJock> awesome
[11:30] <carlos> AlinuxOS: sorry, I didn't see your question
[11:30] <carlos> AlinuxOS: if you get a .po file from Rosetta
[11:30] <carlos> and change it
[11:31] <carlos> and the upload it into the system
[11:31] <AlinuxOS> aha
[11:31] <carlos> that change will modify what we have in Rosetta
[11:31] <carlos> there is an exception to that
[11:31] <carlos> when someone (or even you) modify that same string in Rosetta *after* you got that .po file
[11:31] <carlos> in that case, you will get a conflict error with a link to solve it
[11:32] <AlinuxOS> ah ok...
[11:33] <AlinuxOS> and in case I see that some gnome modules are not imported and I've done translation in upstream project
[11:33] <AlinuxOS> can I upload upstream .po file ?
[11:33] <AlinuxOS> carlos, ?
[11:33] <carlos> sure
[11:34] <AlinuxOS> ah great
[11:34] <AlinuxOS> but I should use another upload form ?
[11:34] <AlinuxOS> there are two
[11:35] <carlos> which ones are you talking about?
[11:36] <AlinuxOS> oops I can't connect with launchpad
[11:37] <carlos> hmm
[11:37] <carlos> same thing here..
[11:37] <LaserJock> yep, me too
[11:37] <LaserJock> who killed launchpad? :-)
[11:37] <AlinuxOS> ooops
[11:37] <AlinuxOS> LaserJock, not me!!
[11:37] <AlinuxOS> I'm guilty!
[11:37] <AlinuxOS> :)
[11:38] <Fujitsu> The DC does seem to be having its fair share of issues at the moment.
[11:39] <carlos> right www.ubuntu.com is also down
[11:39] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com appears to be down as well
[11:39] <LaserJock> well, I guess that's a sign I should be doing RL work ;-)
[11:41] <carlos> AlinuxOS: I'm leaving now to sleep, could you ping me tomorrow to finish this conversation once launchpad is back?
[11:42] <AlinuxOS> carlos, yes of course 
[11:42] <AlinuxOS> carlos, thank you a lot!
[11:42] <carlos> you are welcome
[11:42] <carlos> good night!!
[11:42] <LaserJock> carlos: thanks for the help and good night
[11:46] <mthaddon> should be back now - let me know if you still can't get to it
[11:46] <Fujitsu> All looks fine, mthaddon.
[11:46] <mthaddon> cool