/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/03/21/#ubuntu-motu.txt

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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation \| Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU \| https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO \| http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Adri2000 at Mon Mar 12 19:15:54 2007
(LaserJock/#ubuntu-motu) hmm, I didn't know dget wasn't in Dapper		05:44
LaserJock	I thought it had been around forever	05:45
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nixternal	oi oi	06:02
jdong	anyone with a feisty system and nmap handy?	06:03
jdong	nmap's sequence prediciton seems to think everything is '0: a joke'	06:03
jdong	maybe it's my network	06:04
jdong	sudo nmap non_local_host -vv -O -sV	06:04
nixternal	jdong: what's up?	06:05
Fujitsu	jdong: There's a bug on that.	06:06
Fujitsu	Targetted for beta, I think, or was at some point.	06:07
jdong	Fujitsu: oh cool	06:07
Fujitsu	Bug #91004	06:07
Ubugtu	Malone bug 91004 in nmap "nmap wrongly reports host is blocking ping probes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91004	06:07
LaserJock	nixternal: you're alive!!!	06:07
Fujitsu	Or is that your bug?	06:08
jdong	no, my bug is different	06:08
nixternal	LaserJock: am I?	06:08
jdong	and I doubt it's even a bug	06:08
Fujitsu	It is generally broken, so could be the same thing.	06:08
nixternal	I took my daughter back home on Sunday and came back early tonight	06:08
jdong	Fujitsu: it actually works fine for me on everything	06:08
jdong	except it seems to false think TCP sequence prediction is always 0'es	06:08
Fujitsu	Hm, how strange.	06:08
jdong	it might be my network though	06:08
jdong	because localhost detection works as expected	06:08
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jdong	but any host on the network, no.	06:09
=== jdong nmaps his default gw, against his better judgement :D
jdong	ok disregard	06:12
jdong	seems like once I hop out of 18.x.x.x-space TCP sequence prediction stops working	06:12
jdong	network issue.	06:12
jdong	or "feature" :)	06:12
joejaxx	hello all	06:13
joejaxx	:)	06:13
LaserJock	nixternal: I've got some .desktop stuff for edubuntu-docs sitting in my svn working copy. Did you get anywhere?	06:15
RAOF	racarr: Ooooh, what does tomboy want ARGB for? I likes me some C# :)	06:19
racarr	RAOF: Err, I don't know if they WANT ARGB	06:20
racarr	but I want ARGB :p	06:20
racarr	and err, the editor widget for the note window	06:20
RAOF	They obviously want ARGB. Everyone wants to make their windows annoyingly transparent!	06:21
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Hobbsee	jdong: you certainly arent being personally ignored. you tend to pick the projects that deal with X and such though, and most MOTU's will go "if i dont understand vaguely what i'm uploading, i shouldnt upload it"	06:22
racarr	Mm, I disagree, proper use of ARGB is great	06:23
racarr	as long as text is always opaque, heh	06:23
ajmitch	Hobbsee: slight lag there? :)	06:24
nixternal	LaserJock: didn't have a chance, been afk for the better part of a few days	06:24
Hobbsee	ajmitch: i'm still reading.	06:24
LaserJock	nixternal: np, just wondered, I had it all there anyway	06:24
nixternal	does it work?	06:25
LaserJock	well, I haven't actually tested it	06:25
TheMuso	c	06:25
TheMuso	ugh	06:25
LaserJock	there it is	06:25
LaserJock	:-)	06:25
nixternal	heh	06:25
=== nixternal waits for the svn commit message
LaserJock	nixternal: I'd have to patch gnome-panel to truely test it	06:25
nixternal	ahh, well that stinks	06:25
LaserJock	nixternal: but the .desktop and installation are trivial	06:26
LaserJock	nixternal: the only thing I'm unsure of is how it gets translated	06:26
nixternal	you know, if you guys did the smart thing and based Edubuntu on KDE/Kubuntu this would be a super easy fix ;p	06:26
nixternal	LaserJock: you have to manually upload it I believe	06:26
nixternal	I actually found a spot on LP today where you can upload for translation, but I am willing to bet I will never find it again	06:27
LaserJock	nixternal: :p	06:28
LaserJock	nixternal: well, I'll have to talk to seb128	06:28
nixternal	I mean half of the apps installed are KDE-edu	06:28
LaserJock	so? :-)	06:28
nixternal	everyone must be sleeping, because the flames are null	06:29
jdong	Hobbsee: yeah, I do pick bastard projects and crack to work on ... :)	06:29
LaserJock	that will change too in the future	06:29
nixternal	what, that flames?	06:29
Hobbsee	jdong: sounds about right :P	06:29
jdong	Hobbsee: meh someone's got to :)	06:29
LaserJock	nixternal: but I think Edubuntu was started before Kubuntu really got going, and they guys that started it where gnome-inclined	06:29
Hobbsee	true. but you think someone's going to upload crack they dont understand?	06:29
LaserJock	nixternal: no, being dominated by KDE-Edu. With the 2nd CD we are puttin on a lot of other stuff	06:30
nixternal	nice	06:30
jdong	Hobbsee: no, I don't, but I'd at times appreciate a "Hey jdong, I looked over this and have no idea WTF to do, sorry, no can do"	06:30
nixternal	KDE-edu team is working hard on some new stuff from the looks of KDE SVN	06:30
jdong	Hobbsee: it makes me feel a bit better than just complete silence	06:30
Hobbsee	jdong: silence is that.	06:30
jdong	Hobbsee: silence is either that, or an unnoticed item	06:31
Hobbsee	jdong: then you might want to relearn what silence actually is in such a project...	06:31
Hobbsee	true	06:31
LaserJock	nixternal: yeah, at least one of them will be in Seville	06:31
nixternal	cool	06:31
jdong	Hobbsee: and at first, xserver-xgl was the unnoticed category, since I subscribed a team incorrectly :)	06:31
Hobbsee	but you can guess that things on u-u-s that goes to a fair few people, things arent usually unnoticed	06:31
Hobbsee	jdong: that never helps	06:31
nixternal	I can't make Seville, but depending on how school goes, Akademy might be up for grabs	06:31
Hobbsee	"here little buggy....come out of the woodwork little buggy...."	06:31
jdong	Hobbsee: I'm sorry, it was confusing, I'm used to doing it one way with -archive and motu-uvf worked completely differently :)	06:32
jdong	my fault	06:32
jdong	I shouldn't assume :)	06:32
nixternal	Hobbsee: you want some bugs? I can subscribe ya to some :)	06:32
Hobbsee	nixternal: no thanks...	06:32
Hobbsee	jdong: true. it coudl all be better documented	06:32
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Hobbsee	maybe early next release cycle, when the doco people arent writing release notes or something.	06:33
jdong	Hobbsee: I don't mean to be overly critical and complaining about everything around here; overall I am extremely satisfied... I just tend to come across as a total jerk to you guys :)	06:33
LaserJock	not a *total" jerk ;-)	06:34
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jdong	LaserJock: only like 95%? :D	06:34
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LaserJock	well, I just get a tad testy some days	06:35
jdong	I think everyone does	06:35
LaserJock	I look at my u-u-s email backlog	06:35
jdong	and everyone needs to in order to not completely lose sanity	06:35
LaserJock	I see how ineffective we are	06:35
Hobbsee	heh	06:35
nixternal	talk about ineffective..I feel like that every day	06:36
LaserJock	but we do try our best	06:36
jdong	LaserJock: nah you guys aren't ineffective	06:36
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jdong	LaserJock: you're making the best outta what you are given.	06:36
jdong	and going even beyond that	06:36
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LaserJock	I hope so	06:36
LaserJock	but far too much falls through the cracks	06:36
Hobbsee	jdong: thanks. certain people dont appear to undersatnd that though.	06:36
jdong	I really believe so, despite how I come across	06:36
LaserJock	as evidenced by the number of SRUs	06:36
LaserJock	I'm just frustrated that we can't seem to do better	06:37
LaserJock	and that's I suppose what got me so riled up with Mark's comments	06:38
LaserJock	I think most of us know darn well we need to do a better job	06:38
Hobbsee	LaserJock: and that we cant, in a lot of cases	06:38
LaserJock	but we don't have the time and resources to do a lot about it	06:38
jdong	LaserJock: well, I think in this case, MOTU (we, if I may include myself in the general group) is doing the best with what we resources we have, but we have to admit we fall short, and need to do something about it.	06:39
LaserJock	sure	06:39
jdong	and sabdfl is the man with the power/insight to do that kinda stuff	06:39
LaserJock	that's sort of what aggravated me about it	06:40
Hobbsee	but someone needs to supply a solution, as opposed to just saying "it doesnt work"	06:40
jdong	I think the "explosion" in here was due to everyone being a bit defensive and taking the criticism personally	06:40
LaserJock	I don't need to be told what the problems are	06:40
jdong	Hobbsee: agreeing that it isn't working is the first step	06:40
LaserJock	I'd rather see some resource commitments	06:40
Hobbsee	it did seem like potshots were being taken against the MOTU.	06:40
LaserJock	and some solutions (that were reasonable)	06:40
Hobbsee	LaserJock: but vapourware is such fun!	06:40
jdong	Hobbsee: in the discussion there seemed to be a lot of opposition when Mark said that it wasn't workiing.	06:40
LaserJock	well, I was personally offended by the comments about us scaring off beryl people	06:41
LaserJock	as I do spend a fair amount of time helping people in here	06:41
LaserJock	and I did try to help them out	06:41
LaserJock	the general "upstreams should be able to upload" stuff wasn't a big deal	06:42
LaserJock	I disagree, but it wasn't a big deal	06:42
jdong	LaserJock: A part of Marks' point was that in Beryl's case, just helping them out here was not sufficient. That MOTU should've taken steps to check what's up and why there seems to be silence for a period of time...	06:42
Hobbsee	jdong: true. we know that. see discussion above	06:42
ajmitch	chasing down every interested upstream would be pointless	06:42
jdong	and it seems like a more hopeless use of our already limited resources	06:43
Hobbsee	jdong: in MOTU terms, projects with licencing issues fall to the bottom, as we cnat do a thing about them, after we've told them that they're a showstopper problem to them entering ubuntu.	06:43
Hobbsee	exactly.	06:43
Fujitsu	IMO, we shouldn't be chasing people up. That takes valuable time.	06:43
racarr	Someone could have sent an email to the beryl ML, popped in to IRC and said something quickly, or something though, because Quinn seemed to be the only one who knew about most of the problems	06:44
Hobbsee	however, we need to be open enough that they can come in adn actually get things done - ie, not be too busy to point them out	06:44
jdong	well there's certainly a slippery slope with that	06:44
LaserJock	I mean, for me personally, if they can't care enough to fix licensing issue, I'm not sure what we were supposed to do	06:44
racarr	and ... didn't seem motivated to do anything about it urgently	06:44
Hobbsee	racarr: i did that. multiple times. @ the licencing, and quinn didnt really care.	06:44
ajmitch	racarr: sure, we could try & exhaust all avenues of communication with anyone	06:44
LaserJock	racarr: but I see that as a beryl internal communication issue	06:44
ajmitch	just trying to get someone in the project to care is hard enough	06:44
racarr	and when I came in and ASKED about licensing issues I was told it was just the Cg shaders thing, which was more or less FUD from a few people...disenamored with Beryl	06:44
jdong	I wasn't totally informed about this thoughout the process, but it seems like Quinn didn't totally understand the significance of the licensing issues	06:44
Hobbsee	jdong: +1	06:45
LaserJock	well, there should have been a record of why the package was rejected	06:45
jdong	and in communication breakdowns, both sides have every right to say it's the other party's fault	06:45
jdong	but for the sake of the package, someone take a step to reach across the lines :)	06:46
LaserJock	well, I don't think the MOTU did anything wrong, I really can't see it	06:46
racarr	jdong: Again, when I came in to #ubuntu-motu and asked I was told the problem was something which was most certainly a non issue	06:46
racarr	so I TRIED	06:46
jdong	racarr: the issues with IRC is... you never know if you get the right group of people answering your question....	06:46
Hobbsee	LaserJock: probably only not give the upstream people enough information, and made them look for it	06:46
racarr	not trying to fault the MOTUs here, there were issues with communications both ways	06:46
Hobbsee	which is kinda hard, when you dont know the system.	06:46
jdong	racarr: not blaming you or anything, but you probably asked at a time when nobody REALLY deeply knowledgeable about the issue was around	06:46
LaserJock	but it shouldn't have even involved the MOTUs	06:47
Hobbsee	i mean, we dont have the resources to spoonfeed either - but we probably do need to handle it a bit better	06:47
racarr	jdong: Quite possible	06:47
jdong	developers will hear things from others about the issue	06:47
jdong	and requote it	06:47
jdong	or slightly varied versions of it	06:47
Hobbsee	well, exactly. that's an archive admin issue - but we cant put more pressure onto them either, really	06:47
LaserJock	there would have been a reject email	06:47
jdong	and sooner or later, yeah, it does turn into a different story than original.	06:47
LaserJock	the MOTU aren't really responsible for the rejection	06:47
LaserJock	so I don't know why we'd be at fault	06:47
LaserJock	we uploaded the package	06:48
jdong	LaserJock: it's not MOTU's _fault_ but it should've been an act of kindness by some MOTU to relay that information forward	06:48
LaserJock	I told interested people that it was rejected for some licensing issue	06:48
LaserJock	jdong: it should have gone to them automatically	06:48
jdong	and AFAIK the only one to get the rejection notice is the uploader...	06:48
_MMA_	Hobbsee: IMO beryl needed to have someone delegated to make sure it made it into Feisty. They were very gung-ho at UDS then it all seemed to fall away.	06:48
jdong	LaserJock: agreed	06:48
LaserJock	the packager should have gotten it	06:48
LaserJock	and not via MOTU	06:48
Hobbsee	so that's really a case of the archive admins not being detailed neough in exactly what was wrong, detailed in somewhere apart from irc.	06:48
jdong	LaserJock: I think the whole process of tracking packaging of new packages shoudl be more formalized in Launchpad.	06:49
Hobbsee	which upstream can look at, take away, fix, and resubmit	06:49
Hobbsee	_MMA_: true. but there are priorities, and volunteers often have different priorities	06:49
Hobbsee	_MMA_: and until you pay a person, you cant actaully change their priority by force.	06:49
Fujitsu	jdong: That was done in an email a couple of days ago.	06:49
Fujitsu	It's all in LP now.	06:49
RAOF	I aggree with jdong here. Once things hit the NEW queue, it's not obvious what's happening.	06:49
LaserJock	but if you want your package in Ubuntu you gotta put some effor in	06:49
jdong	Fujitsu: that's good to hear	06:50
Hobbsee	RAOF: very true. that's something to be discussed with an archive admin though - not here	06:50
=== RAOF looks at gnome-compiz-manager sadly
LaserJock	RAOF: sure, but people follow up all the time	06:50
Hobbsee	well, can be discussed here, but i'ts useless, as we're not the archive admins	06:50
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RAOF	:)	06:50
racarr	_MMA_: We just don't have the resources to be honest, and were under the impression that several MOTUs were working on it	06:50
jdong	RAOF: yeah, and it's even more "oooh magic black box of mystery" to a non-MOTU.	06:50
_MMA_	Hobbsee: I think since Mark made it a "priority" to get them to UDS things could have went better.	06:50
racarr	and would have it packaged by UVF	06:50
racarr	and no one had told us (though apparently some people told Quinn) otherwise	06:51
racarr	so	06:51
_MMA_	racarr: Sometimes all it takes is communication. A presence in the channel.	06:51
racarr	agian, not saying you did anything wrong, just saying why the issue fell through on Beryls side	06:51
Hobbsee	_MMA_: that's UDS. there's nothing that says "you come to UDS and you agree to do x, y, z"	06:51
Fujitsu	_MMA_: You are of the opinion that we should have done more because of what Mark said?	06:51
Hobbsee	_MMA_: of course it all could have been done better. but there's work, and such like.	06:51
=== Fujitsu looks at some stats.
LaserJock	Hobbsee: no, but it's odd that people were all excited and fell to the ground at the last minute	06:51
LaserJock	I just find it weird that all was going well	06:52
jdong	LaserJock: in response to your criticism of me not becoming MOTU despite given many opportunities, if I believed that I could manage all I do, my personal sanity, and being MOTU, I would do so without hesitation. Becoming MOTU is certainly high on my list of goals here at Ubuntu.	06:52
LaserJock	we though beryl was definately going to beat compiz in	06:52
_MMA_	Hobbsee: True. I just take opportunities like that to mean a little more. :)	06:52
_MMA_	Fujitsu: MOTU? No.	06:52
Hobbsee	LaserJock: true that.	06:52
LaserJock	jdong: it wouldn't be hard, just send an email application, it doesn't mean more work for you	06:53
ajmitch	_MMA_: like a commitment from the ubuntu side to do the work, even if that's an expectation that volunteers are needed to do it?	06:53
Hobbsee	_MMA_: people didnt get invited to UDS just for beryl, btw.	06:53
jdong	LaserJock: applications are done via e-mail now?	06:53
ajmitch	jdong: yep	06:53
jdong	cool	06:53
LaserJock	jdong: yes, MOTU Council	06:53
=== jdong goes on wiki
ajmitch	jdong: evaluated by the MC	06:53
_MMA_	Hobbsee: Quinstorm didnt?	06:53
jdong	do you guys think I should send one in now?	06:53
LaserJock	yes	06:53
jdong	like would I have a chance?	06:53
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Hobbsee	_MMA_: i meant from MOTU.	06:54
LaserJock	jdong: shesh, you've had a chance for over a year now	06:54
Hobbsee	_MMA_: if your point is that quinn should have submitted those packages, you need to take that up with quinn	06:54
LaserJock	"Just Do It"	06:54
ajmitch	jdong: you need to have people willing to sponsor you, if LaserJock is willing, then CC him on the application	06:54
ajmitch	jdong: do you feel that you are ready?	06:54
jdong	LaserJock: the tech board didn't think so on two occasions, which has been one of the reasons I haven't tried more	06:54
LaserJock	Hobbsee: no, his point was that people got all excited because they were at the UDS, but then when all is said and done the packages didn't make it	06:55
ajmitch	jdong: what, apart from your backport work, do you have to show to the MC?	06:55
jdong	ajmitch: I feel pretty confident in my general packaging abilities and more than comfortable to ask before doing something I'm less confident with...	06:55
jdong	ajmitch: I've not done any major new packages, but I have fixed bugs, etc in various packages	06:55
_MMA_	Hobbsee: No my point is the responsibility should have been on the beryl project to seek help and communicate their needs with Ubuntu after UDS.	06:55
jdong	usually ones that are overlooked and time consuming	06:55
LaserJock	jdong: you were very close, I was there, you just needed to do a few more MOTUish things to get some experience there	06:55
=== ajmitch isn't trying to discourage at all, just trying to make sure you include enough info in the application to the MC
jdong	ajmitch: I totally understand	06:55
Hobbsee	_MMA_: oh, of course. unfortunately, we're not them, and we're trying to look at where our processes need fixing :)	06:56
ajmitch	eg listing things you've worked on, people who've reviewed & sponsored you	06:56
jdong	ajmitch: is there anything MOTU-ish at this stage of Feisty that I can still do to boost my chances?	06:56
ajmitch	jdong: fixing bugs :)	06:56
jdong	ajmitch: I want to make a strong application this time, and waste as little time of others as possible	06:56
jdong	ajmitch: hehe I'll get on that :)	06:56
LaserJock	Hobbsee: I think one of the biggest things would be for Mark to clearly state what if he wants something prioritized	06:56
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Hobbsee	LaserJock: -if, presumably. and to allocate resources to it	06:57
ajmitch	jdong: bribes to MC members wouldn't hurt either	06:57
jdong	lol	06:57
LaserJock	Hobbsee: not even allocate	06:57
jdong	ajmitch: I'm sure another xserver-xgl snapshot wouldn't be a bribe!	06:57
jdong	lol	06:57
Hobbsee	LaserJock: well, instead of magic wand waving	06:57
ajmitch	jdong: you're quite right	06:57
LaserJock	Hobbsee: if he had just emailed -motu and said "heh, make sure beryl makes it in" we would have been more on otp of it	06:57
Hobbsee	true, ish	06:58
LaserJock	I assumed since compiz was in main that he wasn't prioritizing on beryl	06:58
jdong	well, folks, it's 2:00AM and time for me to sleep	06:58
jdong	enjoy	06:58
LaserJock	cya jdong	06:58
Hobbsee	night jdong	06:58
jdong	and I shall embark on my path towards MOTU-dom :)	06:58
LaserJock	please do	06:58
jdong	I will.	06:58
LaserJock	"MOTU want YOU!"	06:58
LaserJock	+s	06:58
jdong	I love Ubuntu and I love the MOTU :)	06:58
RAOF	LaserJock: Actually, me too. I thought that the "one tool for one purpose" would exclude Beryl from ubuntu-desktop	06:58
=== Hobbsee would like to see both jdong and racarr as MOTU's, at some point
LaserJock	so we were in a situation where it looked like compiz was going to be the one for Feisty	06:59
ajmitch	not when sabdfl wants it in :)	06:59
=== Hobbsee think they'd both do a good thing.
Hobbsee	er, s/a good thing/ good things/	06:59
LaserJock	nobody had gotten back to us on the licensing issue	06:59
=== RAOF thinks they do the same thing.
LaserJock	which we can't fix for them	06:59
Hobbsee	we've discussed this	07:00
ajmitch	that's the last that I heard until sabdfl came in to give everyone a shake up	07:00
Hobbsee	i think we more need to figure otu what to do for an upstream that has their licences in tact.	07:00
racarr	It's worth noting that as far as I can tell I think Mark wanted Beryl in main rather than Compiz (I mean, he created the spec as "Beryl by default")	07:00
Fujitsu	ajmitch: Same.	07:00
racarr	Err, RAOF: ^	07:00
Hobbsee	ie, nothing barring the lack of packaging, from it entering ubuntu.	07:00
RAOF	racarr: I just thought that was Beryl's astounding PR coming through :P	07:00
RAOF	racarr: Since the actual discussion was all Beryl/Compiz.	07:01
Fujitsu	racarr: But then that was deferred... That made me (and probably others) think it was unlikely to be a high priority.	07:01
LaserJock	racarr: for sure, that was our impression too	07:01
LaserJock	which is why it's puzziling that we are getting to this only now	07:01
LaserJock	I saw beryl as a main package	07:02
racarr	Fujitsu: That's what Beryl felt as well after it was deferred, so we didn't put much effort at all into ubuntu related things (i.e. we can work on something else that's more generic), then Compiz went in to main and we were all kind of shocked	07:02
LaserJock	I figured Mark would have one of the Canonical guys working on it	07:02
ajmitch	racarr: we were somewhat shocked about compiz suddenly going to main	07:02
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: deferred in most people's minds seem to mean "will have neither in main for feisty"	07:02
ajmitch	Hobbsee: that is logical	07:02
Hobbsee	exactly	07:02
racarr	ajmitch: Yes, that was very very very shocking for us	07:02
Fujitsu	LaserJock: Yep, I thought that a Mark-requested high-priority feature would get Canonical input.	07:03
ajmitch	racarr: why?	07:03
racarr	ajmitch: Just because of what we had heard from Mark, etc (wanting Beryl), the spec being deferred	07:03
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: i think it was supposed to. of coruse, the fact that he wanted dholbach to work on it with the beryl guys was odd - isnt there a major lot of gnome going thru recently?	07:03
racarr	and comments along the lines of "Beryl doesn't support gconf" (I wrote beryls gconf stuff, it does support gconf and integration with about 100 metacity gconf keys :p)	07:03
Hobbsee	and bugfixing in gnome?	07:03
ajmitch	while mark wanted beryl, there were plenty of others that would prefer compiz	07:03
ajmitch	Hobbsee: you mean all of 2.18 landing?	07:04
Hobbsee	yeah	07:04
racarr	ajmitch: Fair enough, I meant more it was shocking that either one went in to main	07:05
racarr	ajmitch: Than that Compiz went in to main	07:05
racarr	but if anything went in to main we expected it to be Beryl	07:05
=== philwyett [n=philwyet@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu
_MMA_	To me though that should have raised a eyebrow and made someone from Beryl at least start asking questions.	07:08
RAOF	I was surprised that no-one from beryl seemed to be doing Universe packages, at all. Now I know why, it makes more sense.	07:09
LaserJock	me too	07:09
RAOF	Still, if I was following Beryl, I would've prodded the packagers in the same way that I prodded Gandalfn :)	07:09
racarr	_MMA_: I did ask questions, and didn't really get an ything interesting said, heh	07:10
racarr	RAOF: Beryl doesn't HAVE packagers	07:10
RAOF	Yes it does. Trevino at least is a packager	07:10
racarr	RAOF: lupine_85 and Pricechild maintain the repositories, but the packages are not maintained anymore	07:10
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Fujitsu	... THE Trevino?	07:10
RAOF	Of absolutely crasy sources.list fame?	07:10
=== Hobbsee doesnt trust trevino
RAOF	The same :)	07:10
_MMA_	lol	07:10
=== Fujitsu hyperventilates
Hobbsee	yep, the one and the same	07:11
Hobbsee	he'd never get MOTUship, just for that packaging list, i'm sure.	07:11
_MMA_	I think he does SVN builds.	07:11
Fujitsu	I cannot trust somebody who did something like that, unfortunately.	07:11
racarr	RAOF: Mm, he doesn't really talk to anyone, or show up, or do anything, and he hasn't seemed to update the packages in forever, etc	07:11
Hobbsee	that's even more scary than bloody yada.	07:11
RAOF	racarr: So what goes in to ubuntu.beryl.org?	07:11
RAOF	?!	07:11
superm1	am i missing something - what is this crazy sources.list that trevino put up?	07:11
racarr	RAOF: Those were made a long time ago, and aren't really changed much anymore	07:11
RAOF	superm1: It would download the internet. All of it.	07:11
superm1	lol	07:12
LaserJock	racarr: but surely there should have been an email on the beryl devel list that had the reject info	07:12
Fujitsu	superm1: Like, 40 different random repos.	07:12
LaserJock	racarr: and somebody was assigned to look into	07:12
Fujitsu	At least.	07:12
LaserJock	it	07:12
Hobbsee	superm1: it's probably googlable - it's a shocker	07:12
racarr	LaserJock: Was someone from Beryl given the reject info to make a post?	07:12
Hobbsee	superm1: imagine a sources list ~ 100 lines long	07:12
LaserJock	racarr: they should have yes	07:12
RAOF	racarr: I suppose this is what happens when your build system has a make-deb script.	07:13
Fujitsu	superm1: http://3v1n0.tuxfamily.org/blog/lista-repository-sourceslist-ottimizzata-per-ubuntu-kubuntu-linux/	07:13
=== Hobbsee clicks...and dies
racarr	LaserJock: Well, as far as I know, no one was	07:13
=== Fujitsu washes out his mouth.
superm1	dude my repository is on there!	07:13
superm1	lol	07:13
_MMA_	racarr: So who does the packages at: "deb http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org feisty main" As a Beryl and Feisty user these were the packages I thought were in prep to go into Ubuntu.	07:13
RAOF	One of the people who maintains a repository on that list put in a fake ubuntu-artwork or something.	07:14
=== Hobbsee shudders...it seems to get longer every time i see it!
Hobbsee	superm1: so are a lot of them. mine never was	07:14
Fujitsu	Hobbsee: It does, actually.	07:14
Hobbsee	RAOF: a skull, telling them how bad repos were	07:14
racarr	_MMA_: Well, the packages in Ubuntu now are heavily evolved versions of those packages	07:14
RAOF	Indeed.	07:14
racarr	_MMA_: But again, no one really "does" those packages	07:14
racarr	_MMA_: A few MOTUs helped us set them up a long time ago	07:14
Hobbsee	so they blasted the guy that did it, saying that that wasnt nice, instead of actually noticing what he was on about	07:14
Fujitsu	Many people complained at how evil and malicious the person who put the skull up was.	07:14
racarr	_MMA_: And um...nothing really happens to them anymore	07:14
=== ajmitch tried helping with beryl packaging at one point
Fujitsu	And said he should be banned from the community...	07:14
Hobbsee	it's his right to put up whatever he likes, really...	07:15
Hobbsee	into his own personal repo	07:15
Fujitsu	It is.	07:15
Fujitsu	And I think it was a very good idea to do it.	07:16
=== RAOF wonders whether his repo is on the trevino list...
_MMA_	racarr: I thought they were slow to update because it was a more "stable" branch. :)	07:16
Hobbsee	indeed. i said he should, when he asked in here :P	07:16
racarr	that's an absurd sources.list	07:16
Fujitsu	Hobbsee: As did I :P	07:16
RAOF	Ooh, so it is :)	07:16
Fujitsu	racarr: Yeah.	07:16
racarr	_MMA_: No, they still get updated with the latest releases but it just means copying the debian/ from the old release	07:16
racarr	_MMA_: To the new release	07:16
_MMA_	ahh...	07:16
RAOF	racarr: But you have a huge community. You couldn't spring for a packager?	07:17
_MMA_	Hell, Ubuntu Studio found some. :)	07:17
racarr	RAOF: Mm, no one has shown an interest, and our community of people who actually participate in Beryl is smaller than it looks	07:17
=== ajmitch should get involved in some ubuntu studio stuff or something :)
RAOF	racarr: Point them at !packagingguide and let them loose :)	07:17
LaserJock	racarr: we are happy to help, as I think you've seen over the past few days, but generally people have to come here first	07:18
racarr	Again, our community of people who actually participate in Beryl just isn't really large enough	07:18
LaserJock	unfortunately this thing just didn't go down right	07:18
racarr	LaserJock: Yes, I've seen that, and obviously appreciate it	07:19
LaserJock	and I honestly don't know that we culd have done much better	07:19
Fujitsu	The MOTU community seems depressingly small at the moment... It seems that ~40 people have uploaded more than 20 packages in Feisty. Of those, about half are mainly core-dev.	07:19
RAOF	racarr: Maybe you could add a thread to "Announcements" to the effect that Beryl packaging is up for grabs	07:19
Hobbsee	racarr: s / large/technical	07:19
=== ajmitch probably isn't in that 40
LaserJock	Fujitsu: wow, even more than I thought :-)	07:19
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racarr	RAOF: Eh, I have it now so it's good	07:19
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: how do those numbers work out? as in, only 40 have uploaded more than 20?	07:20
racarr	Hobbsee: What I meant was the community of technical people who participate in Beryl isn't really large enough	07:20
Fujitsu	Hobbsee: Approximately, yes.	07:20
Hobbsee	racarr: gotcha. yep	07:20
Fujitsu	LaserJock: Some of those aren't MOTUs, but still.	07:20
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: nasty.	07:20
Hobbsee	yes, some wouldnt be MOTUs. 20 is a tiny number over 4 or 5 months...	07:20
LaserJock	racarr: well, you could recruit from here too	07:20
Fujitsu	... geser has uploaded like 400 packages.	07:21
RAOF	There must be at least some members of the Beryl community who can't code and who want to help.	07:21
_MMA_	racarr: Send a shout out to the Ubuntu Fourms or Beryl forums. Im sure you could "grow your own" MOTU. Its what we had to do.	07:21
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: wow	07:21
racarr	RAOF: Compiz logistics are slightly different as more or less one person is paid to maintain/work on 54k lines of code, and anyone else who wants to be involved largely works on auxillary things, packaging, etc	07:21
racarr	RAOF: At least from my observation	07:21
racarr	We have about 165k lines of code to maintain and about the same sized development/people involved community	07:22
Fujitsu	We have 16000 packages, and 20 people. I think that's better.	07:22
LaserJock	;-)	07:23
racarr	_MMA_: Maybe, but lupine and I probably have it under control now	07:24
=== Fujitsu heads off to TAFE. See you all in 40 minutes.
ajmitch	Hobbsee: you were brave, rejecting one of eugenia's bugs	07:25
_MMA_	racarr: Not to push, and I mean it in the most honest way but what changed?	07:25
_MMA_	Why couldnt have this been done sooner?	07:25
racarr	_MMA_: Packaging just really isn't something I have a super interest in, and no one had brought it to my awareness that there were any problems, and when I spend time working on packaging I get to spend less time working on code, so it just hadn't been something I had looked at before	07:26
racarr	but recent events have pretty clearly highlighted that no one was doing anything with it, and it has to be done, so I'm willing to work on it now	07:27
racarr	Basically what changed was communication	07:27
_MMA_	I see.	07:27
ajmitch	_MMA_: ubuntu studio going well?	07:27
ajmitch	got much new stuff in for feisty?	07:27
_MMA_	ajmitch: Yeah.	07:27
Hobbsee	ajmitch: i did what now?	07:27
=== Hobbsee doesnt look at who reported it in most cases - just whta the content was
_MMA_	We got our metas in. We did Murrine.	07:28
ajmitch	Hobbsee: rejected a bug on gparted by eugenia	07:28
ajmitch	heh	07:28
Hobbsee	ajmitch: ahh. who's eugenia?	07:28
ajmitch	iirc the murrine package was based off one I stuck on revu	07:28
Hobbsee	ajmitch: it's in blatant freeze. why wouldnt i?	07:28
ajmitch	Hobbsee: runs os'news'.com	07:28
ajmitch	or did run it	07:28
Hobbsee	ahh. was wondering that	07:28
_MMA_	ajmitch: We have to get a exception on 2 packages and we're waiting on crimsun for Ardour2.	07:28
_MMA_	ajmitch: I think rexbron rolled a new one.	07:29
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ajmitch	Hobbsee: don't be surprised if there's a shrill article soon about those nasty ubuntu developers ;)	07:29
ajmitch	_MMA_: yep, and was even nice enough to keep my changelog entries	07:30
Hobbsee	hooray.	07:30
ajmitch	main issue holding it up from edgy was licensing (funny, that)	07:30
racarr	XD	07:30
_MMA_	ajmitch: Hmm... Ok. :) We're almost done working out how to build our disks. Its been tricky but we'll get it. ;)	07:31
racarr	_MMA_: Another thing that has changed is I came in to #ubuntu-motu as recently as the 2nd of march and someone told me they were working on it (not sure if this was before or after it got rejected for copyright stuff?)	07:31
racarr	_MMA_: And I never heard anything after that, heh	07:31
_MMA_	racarr: Well, maybe its just me but I get curious after not hearing anything. In the end its a lack of communication and hopefully its the past. :)	07:34
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racarr	_MMA_: Well, I did ask again, but not until after the UVF, and at that point I was greeted with a mix of	07:35
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racarr	"It's too late to do anything" and "Beryl isn't high enough quality for universe", and just went back to working at that point because it was frustrating	07:36
LaserJock	hmm, seems like the issue really was rejects not being available	07:36
racarr	I think that was a big part of it, heh	07:37
LaserJock	all most people knew (like myself) was that it was rejected because of some license issue (common enough of a problem)	07:37
_MMA_	racarr: Dont listen. Push. (to a degree) We learned you have to do what you have to do to get it done. :)	07:37
_MMA_	It can be a fine line.	07:37
LaserJock	racarr: well, I'm sorry if people here weren't so helpful, I really am	07:38
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racarr	I still love how some of the chinese translations had the copyright/author assigned to me	07:43
Hobbsee	racarr: subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the debdiff, should go in fairly quickly	07:43
Hobbsee	we cant read it, so we're trusting on you that it's right	07:43
Hobbsee	which we can do more, of course, because you're upstream, so oguth to know how it works	07:43
LaserJock	racarr: as long as it isn't a new upstream version any MOTU can sponsor an upload pretty much any time up until the last week before release	07:43
racarr	Hobbsee: LaserJock: Ok, I'll post debdiffs as soon as they clear NEW	07:43
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cbx33	hey LaserJock	07:51
ajmitch	hi cbx33	07:51
cbx33	hi ajmitch	07:52
vil	imbrandon, ping	07:52
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LaserJock	darn	08:04
Hobbsee	what's darn?	08:04
LaserJock	ok, well it seems we've had a bit of miscommunication with ubuntu-archive	08:04
Fujitsu	Me entering, I guess.	08:05
Fujitsu	Oh dear. Sounds bad.	08:05
Fujitsu	What's happened now?	08:05
LaserJock	surprise surprise :-)	08:05
LaserJock	well, they have no idea what the NewPackagesFreeze exception process is	08:05
Fujitsu	How did this become evident?	08:06
ajmitch	of course we have miscommunications	08:06
ajmitch	that's what it's all about	08:06
Hobbsee	they...what...?	08:06
LaserJock	well	08:07
LaserJock	if you look at the NEW queue	08:07
LaserJock	and don't look at beryl or kde4 stuff	08:08
LaserJock	there's still quite a few packages	08:08
Fujitsu	So they haven't been looking at them at all?	08:08
LaserJock	I don't think so	08:08
Hobbsee	wouldnt surprise me	08:08
ajmitch	I thought that wsa just because they were busy due to beta freze, etc	08:08
ajmitch	have you talked to archive people?	08:08
racarr	mdz mentioned asking people to look at the Beryl packages in NEW which might imply that it wasn't expected people would, heh	08:09
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LaserJock	ajmitch: sorry, I'm talking with Mithrandir now	08:13
LaserJock	he had totally stopped processing NEW	08:13
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LaserJock	ok, so he would like an email that has both what packages in NEW should be processed	08:15
LaserJock	and what the exception process is	08:15
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ajmitch	hm ok	08:17
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=== ajmitch didn't think we'd approved much anyway
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LaserJock	well, but I"m pretty sure the stuff in NEW up until gisomount made it in before the freeze	08:18
LaserJock	which is like 10 packages	08:18
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siretart	Hobbsee: pong	08:34
LaserJock	hi siretart	08:35
siretart	morning folks, hi LaserJock!	08:35
Fujitsu	Hi siretart.	08:35
ajmitch	hey siretart	08:35
Hobbsee	siretart: heya. i needed a UVF ack, but i've got it. you could pre-emptively do one for basket though...	08:35
siretart	huhu Fujitsu, ajmitch, Hobbsee. Hobbsee: bugno?	08:36
Fujitsu	Hobbsee: Does that fix all the crashes I've seen flooding in?	08:36
Hobbsee	siretart: havent filed it	08:36
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: most, if not all, yes. the other ones are 0.6 ones	08:36
siretart	k	08:37
=== Fujitsu wonders what basket actually does, for all its crashing.
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Hobbsee	siretart: i'm waiting for debian to package it, which ana said she was doing today...	08:37
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siretart	Hobbsee: perhaps you can file an lp bug anyway an link to her ITP bug in debian?	08:38
Hobbsee	siretart: there's a thoguht	08:38
siretart	Hobbsee: so that (potentential) discussion isn't lost	08:38
dholbach	good morning	08:38
siretart	good morning, dholbach!	08:38
Hobbsee	siretart: right	08:38
Hobbsee	hiya dholbach	08:38
LaserJock	hi dholbach	08:38
Fujitsu	Hi dholbach.	08:39
LaserJock	are all the times in LP localized?	08:39
Fujitsu	LaserJock: Yes.	08:39
enyc	??LP??	08:39
Fujitsu	LP == Launchpad	08:40
siretart	enyc: http://launchpad.net	08:40
enyc	kk	08:40
=== enyc familitar with launchpad
dholbach	hey LaserJock, siretart, Hobbsee, Fujitsu	08:41
dholbach	how's it going?	08:41
Hobbsee	good. managed to read all of the MOTU blowing up log	08:42
LaserJock	does anybody remember what the last packages before FF was?	08:43
LaserJock	Hobbsee: s/blowing up/wonderful discussion with the boss/	08:43
Hobbsee	lol	08:43
Hobbsee	LaserJock: new or what?	08:43
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LaserJock	I'm trying to figure out when FF was	08:44
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LaserJock	I could sweare gisomount made it	08:44
LaserJock	but it seems late according to the time I sent out the email	08:44
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LaserJock	what about supertux-stable?	08:48
Hobbsee	that was after FF, but needs to make it in	08:49
LaserJock	ok, so should we draw the line there?	08:49
Hobbsee	depending what's there - if it looks sane, add it	08:50
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ajmitch	dholbach: ping	08:54
dholbach	ajmitch: pong	08:55
ajmitch	(feature freeze exception stuff)	08:55
dholbach	aha?	08:55
ajmitch	from a mr tollef fog heen	08:55
ajmitch	bug 94344	08:55
Ubugtu	Malone bug 94344 in Ubuntu "[NEW] blktrace" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94344	08:55
dholbach	looking	08:55
ajmitch	there's been a slight miscommunication about freezes lately, and archive admins haven't been approving stuff	08:56
ajmitch	being cleared up now	08:56
dholbach	excellent	08:56
ajmitch	19:15 < LaserJock> ok, so he would like an email that has both what packages in NEW should be processed	08:56
ajmitch	19:15 < LaserJock> and what the exception process is	08:56
dholbach	there's also netbeans5.5 to be approved	08:56
dholbach	whine	08:56
dholbach	that's going to be quite some work, no?	08:57
ajmitch	ah yes	08:57
ajmitch	for NEW processing?	08:57
dholbach	how full is Source NEW?	08:57
ajmitch	35 packages	08:57
ajmitch	mostly kde4 & beryl	08:57
dholbach	have they been all through revu?	08:57
ajmitch	you could recruit pitti & seb to help out :)	08:57
ajmitch	a number of them are in NEW from before freeze	08:58
dholbach	ok	08:58
ajmitch	some are syncs from debian	08:58
dholbach	i don't think the uvf team should make things more complicated as they are	08:58
dholbach	seems that after the packages hit the archive they went through enough hands already	08:58
dholbach	that's just my gut feeling - maybe we should talk about it in the whole uvf team	08:58
ajmitch	agreed, I feel that anything that made it to NEW before freeze should get in	08:59
ajmitch	stuff like kde4 we gave an exception to	08:59
ajmitch	beryl, well that's an interesting case :)	08:59
dholbach	they were all uploaded from motus?	08:59
ajmitch	yep	08:59
dholbach	(just trying to figure out if they went through revu first	08:59
dholbach	ok	08:59
dholbach	)	08:59
ajmitch	crimsun & imbrandon worked hard on getting them in shape	08:59
dholbach	that's fine then	08:59
dholbach	nice	09:00
ajmitch	helping out racarr & lupine_85	09:00
racarr	Lutin and a few others helped as well, it was a pretty broad effort, hehe	09:00
ajmitch	tollef wants blktrace to trace i/o access on the live cd to do some optimisations	09:00
dholbach	arg, why do people not understand the uvf procedure	09:00
dholbach	oh no, sorry - my fault	09:00
LaserJock	dholbach: the stuff from before the freeze went through REVU	09:00
ajmitch	:)	09:00
LaserJock	Tollef just wasn't sure I don't think when exactly the Freeze was	09:01
LaserJock	and wasn't sure exactly of what the procdure for exceptions was	09:01
LaserJock	apparently he overlooked by Freeze announcment to -devel-announce	09:01
LaserJock	anyway	09:01
LaserJock	I'm sending an email to -motu to get everything cleared up, if that's ok	09:02
ajmitch	sure	09:02
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Fujitsu	Aha, so there is a way to see what's in UNAPPROVED, that's nice.	09:28
racarr	NEW only has 34 packages now :p	09:30
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Fujitsu	Gr, why do random people insist on adding upstream tasks and proposing releases to duplicate bugs, when they've never had any contact with the bug before?	09:46
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LaserJock	ok, sent message to -motu	09:54
LaserJock	hopefully I'm still concious enough to write a decent email	09:55
ajmitch	haha	09:58
=== ajmitch breathlessly awaits enlightenment from his inbox
Fujitsu	Woah, nice comment:	10:00
Fujitsu	https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/78426/comments/7	10:00
Ubugtu	Malone bug 78426 in mplayer "mplayer crash with "illegal instruction" on PPC (dup-of: 74282)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]	10:00
Ubugtu	Malone bug 74282 in mplayer "Altivec detection broken on G3 (multiple packages)" [Undecided,Confirmed]	10:00
LaserJock	wow	10:02
LaserJock	that's quite the comment indeed	10:02
=== ajmitch tries to read
LaserJock	quick, make them a MOTU ;-)	10:03
Fujitsu	And look at the patch.	10:03
Fujitsu	ajmitch: I gave up.	10:03
Fujitsu	I gist of the comment is something about turning off Altivec stuff.	10:03
Fujitsu	Yet the patch seems to add XMMS support.	10:03
Fujitsu	And he added an upstream task.	10:03
Fujitsu	AND nominated it for trunk as well.	10:03
LaserJock	thorough	10:04
Fujitsu	*The gist	10:04
Fujitsu	I can't think tonight.	10:04
LaserJock	make him a member of the bug squad!	10:04
Fujitsu	(though that comment didn't help)	10:04
Fujitsu	LaserJock: ubuntu-qa, I think.	10:04
Fujitsu	Fast-track his core-dev membership.	10:04
racarr	he should at the very least have more than 0 karma	10:06
=== Fujitsu replies to the comment suggesting things like not randomly adding upstream release nominations, not putting useless stuff on duplicate bugs, not attaching patches that are entirely different... oh, and USE PARAGRAPHS.
LaserJock	bah	10:06
LaserJock	paragraphs are for sissies	10:06
LaserJock	real men know how to read without punctuation	10:06
racarr	yeahandwhoneedsthebigwidekeyatthebottom	10:07
racarr	imeanreally	10:07
Fujitsu	He's been using LP for ever, and then some:	10:07
Fujitsu	Bug Marked as Duplicate 2005-10-15 19:19:27 EST	10:07
Fujitsu	(then the account lies dormant for 1.5 years, until an hour ago)	10:07
racarr	He was probably working on that comment	10:07
Fujitsu	Hahahah.	10:07
Fujitsu	I couldn't formulate a comment like that if I tried...	10:07
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Fujitsu	LaserJock: Didn't we decide that supertux-stable shouldn't need a NewPackageFreeze Exception?	10:09
LaserJock	I thought Hobbsee said it was after the freeze	10:10
LaserJock	it might have gotten a freeze exception	10:10
LaserJock	but I'm pretty sure it was uploaded after the freeze	10:10
Hobbsee	LaserJock: it pisses off upstream. we didnt get an exception, to my knowledge	10:10
Hobbsee	LaserJock: we've had it in the archive before.	10:10
Fujitsu	Sun, 25 Feb 2007 04:42:29 +0100	10:11
LaserJock	so does it need an exception or a rejection?	10:11
Fujitsu	So it was after freeze, but it's not a new package.	10:11
Fujitsu	It's the old supertux, renamed, at upstream's request.	10:11
LaserJock	right, it's just a rename	10:11
Fujitsu	I really don't think it needs an exception.	10:11
Fujitsu	Sort of, yes.	10:12
Fujitsu	It's a rename and reintroduction of an old version of a package.	10:12
Fujitsu	In another bug `I have posted an ambitiously thorough patch for bug #78426. Please read	10:13
Fujitsu	my comment there.'	10:13
Ubugtu	Malone bug 78426 in mplayer "mplayer crash with "illegal instruction" on PPC (dup-of: 74282)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78426	10:13
Ubugtu	Malone bug 74282 in mplayer "Altivec detection broken on G3 (multiple packages)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74282	10:13
Fujitsu	Ambitiously thorough, in that it contains stuff that is entirely irrelevant?	10:13
LaserJock	hmm, that's one tough way to get karma	10:14
LaserJock	think how much RSI he'll get before he's as 1000	10:15
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Fujitsu	Damn, wrong button.	10:15
=== ajmitch wonders when he'll get this mythical email from LaserJock
Fujitsu	Even better: `Ugly, but the mplayer developers have forced this hand to be played, by insisting everybody compile their own mplayer and not use any precompiled binary.'	10:15
LaserJock	it's there dude	10:15
ajmitch	aha, found it	10:16
Fujitsu	ajmitch: I've had it for ages.	10:16
ajmitch	Fujitsu: congratulations	10:16
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LaserJock	I can't help PEBCAK or crappy NZ connections	10:16
LaserJock	ok, I'm toast	10:17
ajmitch	too tired?	10:19
LaserJock	yeah, I'm starting to get loopy	10:20
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LaserJock	but I'm discussing translations and .desktops with seb ...	10:20
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racarr	someone should fix https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/irm/+bug/78174 , looks really quick and looks correct	10:24
Ubugtu	Malone bug 78174 in irm "UCF: Missing dependency for Post-inst script" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]	10:24
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racarr	I put a debdiff up (to learn how to use debdiff :p) but it's pretty trivial	10:24
LaserJock	darn it	10:26
LaserJock	I'm so lost when it comes to translation	10:26
racarr	Me too :(	10:26
TheMuso	If nobody is looking at the bug racarr pointed out, I'll look at it in about 20-30 minutes when I've finished a few things here.	10:30
racarr	it's err, pretty trivial, the package uses ucf in it's postinst script and doesn't depend on it (unless theres an rdepend I missed, but I vaugely checked, and it seems unlikely the bug could be reported if there were an rdepend)	10:30
TheMuso	racarr: I'll have a look in a while anyway.	10:31
racarr	ok thanks	10:31
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ajmitch	racarr: debdiff needs to be between 2 source packages	10:34
ajmitch	& against the latest version in feisty	10:35
ajmitch	eg debdiff version1.dsc version2.dsc	10:35
LaserJock	oh, I like the debdiffs between Edgy versions and the latest Feisty	10:35
racarr	ajmitch: Well, it's between the two latest versions in feisty, and I figured it was .dscs but the manpage says otherwise	10:36
racarr	ah nevermind	10:36
racarr	I should have read the whole thing	10:36
LaserJock	night all	10:38
LaserJock	see you in a few	10:38
LaserJock	;-)	10:38
racarr	ajmitch: Presumambly not worth uploading another debdiff as someone can translate the current one and upload the missing dependency in less time than that will take?	10:38
ajmitch	may as well fix what's there	10:40
racarr	ok just a second	10:42
racarr	http://librarian.launchpad.net/6880655/irm.debdiff	10:43
ajmitch	you need to add a new changelog entry	10:44
ajmitch	rather than appending to the existing version	10:44
racarr	mm, a new dependency merits that?	10:45
ajmitch	any change requires it	10:45
ajmitch	otherwise the archive software will reject it	10:45
racarr	agh ok	10:45
ajmitch	& it needs to follow ubuntu versioning :)	10:46
ajmitch	eg 1.5.3.1-1.1ubuntu1	10:46
racarr	so update that while I'm at it?	10:47
racarr	mm no I see the previous changelogs are all from debian	10:47
Fujitsu	But you're uploading this to Ubuntu, so it needs Ubuntu versioning.	10:48
racarr	Right, I was just wondering why the old ones weren't ubuntu*	10:48
racarr	and then corrected myself, heh	10:48
TheMuso	Ok so I can assume that it is being taken care of.	10:48
racarr	TheMuso: If by being taken care of you mean I'm showing off my inability to fix something I described as trivial. Yes :p	10:50
TheMuso	racarr: I mean that someone is working with you to get the fix uploaded.	10:51
racarr	TheMuso: I know, I was just teasing myself, hehe	10:51
racarr	ajmitch: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6880824/irm.debdiff	10:51
ajmitch	ok, 1 minor thing	10:55
ajmitch	instead of (Closes: 74159), for Ubuntu we want (LP: #74159)	10:55
ajmitch	so that it ought to close automatically (if the server-side part is working yet)	10:55
TheMuso	ajmitch: Heh I noticed te extra field that gets created from that. Really cool.	10:56
TheMuso	And will be even more so once server side stuff is done.	10:56
racarr	ajmitch: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6880838/irm.debdiff	10:57
ajmitch	heh	10:58
ajmitch	drop the Closes: ;)	10:58
=== ajmitch hopes he hasn't driven racarr up the wall yet
racarr	ajmitch: No, but I feel slightly stupid :p	10:59
ajmitch	no need to :)	10:59
TheMuso	ajmitch: Really? The closes is also not needed?	10:59
ajmitch	took me a long time to get into stuff	10:59
racarr	http://librarian.launchpad.net/6880842/irm.debdiff	10:59
ajmitch	TheMuso: it shouldn't be	10:59
TheMuso	Right.	11:00
TheMuso	Sounds more conclusive to me though. :)	11:00
ajmitch	TheMuso: the regex matches starting with lp	11:00
TheMuso	Ah.	11:00
ajmitch	if you have closes: in there, it could confuse stuff in debian	11:00
racarr	and heh, I figure I should probably become a bit more competent than I currently am with some of the various things	11:00
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TheMuso	ajmitch: Ah ok.	11:00
racarr	I'll probably end up applying for MOTUship at some point (mostly to maintain Beryl admittedly)	11:00
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racarr	but I would be uncomfortable doing that without a bit more familiarity with the processes	11:01
ajmitch	now, it would be nice if I could grab the source	11:01
TheMuso	back in a bit	11:01
ajmitch	TheMuso: are you able to apt-get source irm?	11:01
racarr	archive.ubuntu.com not working for you?	11:01
ajmitch	nope	11:01
racarr	it's up and down for me as well	11:01
racarr	I was just a few minutes ago, can't right now	11:01
racarr	ajmitch: http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/irm/	11:02
racarr	More there than you need but I was lazy and just did scp *	11:02
racarr	that's the original	11:03
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racarr	let me know when you have it so I can delete it, heh	11:03
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racarr	archive.ubuntu.com is working for me again though	11:04
=== ajmitch grabbed from the nz mirror
ajmitch	heh	11:06
ajmitch	you'll hate me, but one last thing for the debdiff	11:06
racarr	yeah?	11:06
ajmitch	Maintainer: needs changed in debian/control	11:06
racarr	mm?	11:06
=== ajmitch looks for the email explaining it
racarr	oh	11:07
racarr	it's a debian one	11:07
racarr	I see, ok	11:07
=== StevenK appears.
racarr	(Already read about that)	11:07
ajmitch	http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.announce/236	11:07
ajmitch	Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>	11:07
StevenK	ajmitch: I was enjoying my blissful ignorance about UDS until this morning. :-/	11:07
ajmitch	and rename the existing Maintainer field to XSBC-Original-Maintainer	11:07
ajmitch	StevenK: oh?	11:07
StevenK	ajmitch: Sponsorship, and my lack there of.	11:08
ajmitch	ah	11:08
ajmitch	StevenK: I presume that means you won't be there	11:09
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StevenK	ajmitch: Baring miracles, correct.	11:09
=== StevenK presumably isn't important enough for sponsorship.
StevenK	Or the sponsorship people said, "Ugh, who'd want him there?" :-P	11:10
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=== ajmitch doesn't think they're sponsoring many developers
racarr	ajmitch: http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/irm.debdiff	11:12
racarr	err	11:13
racarr	wait	11:13
pochu	good morning	11:13
racarr	I lost the launchpad thing there	11:13
racarr	ajmitch: Ok, refresh, heh	11:13
ajmitch	racarr: got sick of putting it on lp? :)	11:14
racarr	no I just thought the people subscribed to the bug wouldn't appreciate the spam	11:14
ajmitch	hehe	11:14
racarr	mm for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpqc/+bug/79087	11:16
Ubugtu	Malone bug 79087 in mpqc "tkmolrender fails to start" [Medium,Confirmed]	11:16
racarr	it looks like it's depending on autotools to throw #!/usr/bin/wish in from @WISH@	11:16
racarr	but autotools isn't	11:16
racarr	err	11:16
racarr	except it's not using autotools....	11:16
racarr	that's just broken	11:17
TheMuso	Hey pochu.	11:18
pochu	heya TheMuso :)	11:18
racarr	ajmitch: No more problems with it preumambly?	11:23
ajmitch	nope	11:23
racarr	ok, good deal	11:24
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vil	imbrandon, ping	11:30
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racarr	ajmitch: Have time to look at http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/mpqc.patch ?	11:42
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racarr	For bug 79087	11:42
Ubugtu	Malone bug 79087 in mpqc "tkmolrender fails to start" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79087	11:42
racarr	or someone else have time to look at it, the .patch is a debdiff	11:43
TheMuso	racarr: I'll take a look if you'd like.	11:43
ajmitch	not right now, I'm shuffling mysql databases between servers :)	11:43
TheMuso	ajmitch: Tis fine, I'll take it.	11:44
racarr	TheMuso: Ok, thanks	11:44
ajmitch	thanks TheMuso	11:45
racarr	TheMuso: Err, my changelog description was poor, but I just put a new one up	11:45
TheMuso	racarr: Is it the same filename?	11:45
racarr	TheMuso: What do you mean?	11:45
TheMuso	Does the new patch overwrite the the original one you posted a link to?	11:46
racarr	ah, yeah	11:46
TheMuso	THanks.	11:46
racarr	I will throw it on launchpad once it's done but I don't want to spam people with 4-5 uploads as happened last time, heh	11:47
TheMuso	racarr: Your changelog entry is way too long.	11:47
racarr	the last upload was an ubuntu.com address and the maintainer thing is already fixed (though I guess you could discern that from the 1ubuntu2	11:48
TheMuso	Needs to be over a couple of lines.	11:48
racarr	Ok, I thought it was preferred that they be on one long line	11:48
racarr	but do you mean the content is too long? or it's just needs to be split in to lines	11:48
TheMuso	Just needs to be split into two lines.	11:49
racarr	ok, refresh :p	11:49
racarr	I split it in to 3 so it could stay under 80 per line	11:49
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TheMuso	racarr: Malformed patch at line 14.	11:52
TheMuso	FOr some weird reason.	11:52
racarr	TheMuso: Mm?	11:52
racarr	When does that show up, when building? because it works fine for me :/	11:52
racarr	or when applying the debdiff	11:53
TheMuso	Sorry, the debdiff is the one thats malformed.	11:53
TheMuso	hang on.	11:53
=== TheMuso clears and re-unpacks.
racarr	mm, I don't understand why that could happen	11:53
TheMuso	I'll just see if something weird happened here.	11:54
racarr	Err, could it be I edited the debdiff and added the two extra lines without rebuilding the debdiff	11:54
racarr	so the line info is wrong	11:54
TheMuso	Possibly, but I'll know for sure in a sec.	11:55
TheMuso	I'd say so.	11:55
TheMuso	Getting the same error on a fresh unpack of the original source.	11:55
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=== ajmitch wonders how long it'll take to insert this 250MB sql dump
TheMuso	ajmitch: Sounds like fun.	11:55
ajmitch	oh it is	11:55
ajmitch	moving accounts from one server to another	11:56
Fujitsu	TheMuso: Which package?	11:56
sacater	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anjuta/+bug/81310	11:56
Ubugtu	Malone bug 81310 in anjuta "dependency missing in anjuta .deb" [Undecided,Needs info]	11:56
racarr	TheMuso: yeah it's because I just edited the debpatch but when I added lines the line number info became wrong	11:56
TheMuso	Fujitsu: Just working with racarr and had problems with a debdiff.	11:57
TheMuso	racarr: Is there a fresh version up yet?	11:57
racarr	TheMuso: Yep http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/mpqc.patch	11:57
TheMuso	thanks	11:57
ajmitch	sacater: right, autogen is in recommends since it's not needed for the package to run	11:58
sacater	ajmitch: yeh i saw that	11:58
sacater	ajmitch: shalli add to dependencies then?	11:58
TheMuso	racarr: Is this for feisty?	11:58
sacater	shall i*	11:58
racarr	TheMuso: Yeah	11:59
ajmitch	argh	12:00
ajmitch	mysql innodb tablespace full	12:00
TheMuso	racarr: Did you mean to put a space between the # and the bug number intensionally?	12:00
sacater	okay im newb, anjuta is at 2.0.2, so how come the source is 1.2.4? http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/source/anjuta	12:00
racarr	TheMuso: Err, no I didn't	12:00
racarr	fixed, heh	12:01
TheMuso	Thanks.	12:01
=== ajmitch wouldn't stick autogen in depends, tbh
TheMuso	racarr: Ok, about to do a test build.	12:03
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racarr	TheMuso: Ok, sounds good	12:03
TheMuso	Fujitsu: sorry, didn't read your question properly. Package is mpqc.	12:05
racarr	https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpqc/+bug/79087	12:05
Ubugtu	Malone bug 79087 in mpqc "tkmolrender fails to start" [Medium,Confirmed]	12:05
sacater	ajmitch: shall i make it a dependancie	12:07
sacater	dependancy	12:07
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ajmitch	see above, I said no	12:07
sacater	kkkkk	12:07
ajmitch	others may think differently	12:07
sacater	exactly what im thinking	12:07
sacater	ill make it a dependancy, then see what LaserJock thinks later	12:08
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ajmitch	The Depends field should be used if the depended-on package is required for the depending package to provide a significant amount of functionality.	12:10
ajmitch	The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.	12:10
ajmitch	hence why it's in recommends	12:10
ajmitch	and apt, aptitude, synaptics, etc all install recommends now	12:10
jwendell	any sponsor here want to help me on bug 73893 ?	12:11
Ubugtu	Malone bug 73893 in cryptmount "Empty examples directory" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73893	12:11
TheMuso	If there are no takers before I finish with racarr's debdiff, I'll look at it.	12:17
jwendell	TheMuso, talkink to me?	12:17
TheMuso	jwendell: To you and to the channel at large.	12:18
jwendell	TheMuso, ok, thanks	12:18
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racarr	TheMuso: What's up with the test build?	12:29
TheMuso	racarr: Ok seems to be an error of some sort. Give me a sec to upload the build log somewhere so you can have a look.	12:29
TheMuso	It doesn't appear to be packaging related.	12:29
racarr	mmm...ok	12:29
TheMuso	racarr: http://www.themuso.com/mpqc-build.log	12:30
racarr	TheMuso: Mm...yeah that has nothing to do with anything I touched	12:31
TheMuso	I know.	12:31
racarr	where are build logs stored?	12:31
TheMuso	Hang on, I may have accidentally killed the build.	12:31
racarr	so I can see if it built in the past?	12:31
TheMuso	Go to http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mpqc	12:32
racarr	(I didn't actually build the whole package, I just build the start to make sure the patch applied, heh)	12:32
TheMuso	And choose the version you want from that page.	12:32
racarr	mm looks like it built in the past?	12:32
racarr	let me try building...	12:33
racarr	Well, mine is about halfway to where yours was, so I'll let you know in a few minutes	12:36
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racarr	TheMuso: This package has a disturbing build system	12:41
TheMuso	racarr: Right	12:41
racarr	(Hasn't broken yet, it's just disturbing)	12:41
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racarr	TheMuso: My build is further than yours	12:46
racarr	TheMuso: So it sounds like you might have accidently aborted it or something	12:46
TheMuso	Right, so I probably just canceled inadvertantly.	12:46
racarr	I'll go ahead and let the build finish just to make sure	12:46
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racarr	TheMuso: My build finished fine	12:52
ajmitch	pochu: I hope you're going to add some info to bug 94380	12:53
Ubugtu	Malone bug 94380 in wxwidgets2.8 "[UVFe] wxwidgets 2.8.2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94380	12:53
racarr	at least for the binary that yours failed on, the others are going	12:53
racarr	actually it's all done	12:54
TheMuso	Yep so is mine.	12:55
TheMuso	Sorry, got called away for a bit.	12:55
racarr	no problem	12:56
racarr	ok so can I 'fix comitted' the bug now?	12:56
TheMuso	racarr: Yep.	12:57
TheMuso	racarr: You know the drill re changing it when its built successfully?	12:57
TheMuso	ok uploaded	12:57
racarr	TheMuso: Err, you mean the LP changes it automatically thing?	12:57
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stockholm	hi	12:57
TheMuso	racarr: No it doesn't.	12:57
stockholm	i have a cdbs packaging question	12:57
racarr	TheMuso: Mm, what did you mean then?	12:58
TheMuso	I mean once the package has built on all arches, you then set the bug to fix released.	12:58
racarr	TheMuso: And thanks	12:58
racarr	TheMuso: Ah, ok	12:58
stockholm	is there generic support for .in files?	12:58
TheMuso	You're welcome.	12:58
stockholm	i know about control.in, but what about for example packagename.install.in?	12:58
stockholm	i need to set the python version variable in the install path and want to do that with an .in file	12:59
ajmitch	stockholm: not that I'm aware of	12:59
ajmitch	it'd probably require some manual hackery in debian/rules	01:00
stockholm	ajmitch: right.	01:00
stockholm	ajmitch: how is the control.in stuff implemented?	01:00
stockholm	can it be reused for this?	01:00
ajmitch	in buildcore.mk	01:01
ajmitch	it's not pretty	01:01
stockholm	it is cdbs. :-)	01:01
ajmitch	(including stuff like rewriting Build-Depends)	01:01
stockholm	i know about that part, i dont want that	01:01
ajmitch	heh, I'm glad :)	01:02
ajmitch	from what I can see it's just using sed	01:02
stockholm	no, it is just hardcoded control.in.	01:03
stockholm	nothing generic	01:03
stockholm	oh well, would have been nice	01:03
ajmitch	might be a useful addition to cdbs	01:04
ajmitch	or it might just open up a world of pain	01:04
stockholm	what was jeffs nick?	01:04
ajmitch	jbailey	01:04
stockholm	jbailys... right	01:04
stockholm	on maternity leave :-)	01:04
=== ajmitch imagines he's a little distracted lately
ajmitch	yeah	01:04
stockholm	oh well, he needs to get on with life!	01:05
stockholm	get over that kid! :-)	01:05
=== ajmitch doesn't know if jeff has touched cdbs in years
=== stockholm either.
stockholm	he was working on cdbs2 when we last met	01:05
ajmitch	the POSIX shell cdbs?	01:06
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stockholm	yes	01:06
Amaranth	?	01:06
Amaranth	that sounds scary	01:06
ajmitch	sure is	01:06
stockholm	he tried to do it object oriented :-)	01:07
ajmitch	sounds like jeff	01:07
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swarog	hello	01:09
ajmitch	hi	01:10
=== ajmitch should probably go & sleep
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ajmitch	night all	01:12
Fujitsu	Night ajmitch.	01:12
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sacater	pochu: hi, im changing a dependancy in anjuta, the last entry in the changelog was anjuta (1:1.2.4a-5build1) feisty; urgency=low	01:17
sacater	when I did dch -i i got anjuta (1:1.2.4a-5build2) feisty; urgency=low	01:17
sacater	. What should i put anjuta (1:1.2.4a-5ubuntu2) feisty; urgency=low ?	01:17
Fujitsu	sacater: ubuntu1	01:18
sacater	Fujitsu: anjuta (1:1.2.4a-5ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low ??????	01:18
Adri2000	yes.	01:19
Fujitsu	Yep.	01:19
sacater	cool	01:19
sacater	a-building I will go	01:19
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sacater	Adri2000: Fujitsu: hows this? anjuta (1:1.2.4a-5ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low	01:31
sacater	* Dependancy change (autogen changed from recommend, to depends)	01:31
sacater	-- Sam Cater <sacater@btopenworld.com> Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:14:54 +0000	01:31
geser	if there's a bug about it, you should mention in like (LP: #bugnumber)	01:33
sacater	true	01:33
sacater	hang on	01:33
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sacater	hows this	01:34
sacater	anjuta (1:1.2.4a-5ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low	01:34
sacater	* Dependancy change (autogen changed from recommend, to depends) (LP: #81310)	01:34
sacater	-- Sam Cater <sacater@btopenworld.com> Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:14:54 +0000	01:34
shawarma	sacater: It's "dependency" isn't it?	01:34
sacater	shawarma: again yes, sorry, newb	01:34
sacater	amended	01:35
shawarma	sacater: Quite alright. While we're correcting spelling/grammar it, the comma in the parentheses seems wrong, but I'm not sure.	01:35
sacater	?	01:35
=== shawarma is not a native English speaker.
sacater	oh ok	01:35
sacater	let me check	01:35
sacater	!paste \| sacater	01:36
sacater	changed	01:37
sacater	shawarma: Adri2000: Fujitsu: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11325/	01:38
Adri2000	recommendS	01:38
sacater	k	01:38
shawarma	sacater: You didn't correct the "dependency" thing.	01:39
shawarma	Oh.	01:39
sacater	shawarma: ?	01:39
shawarma	Yes, you did, but in the wrong place.	01:39
sacater	shawarma: i changed it in control	01:39
shawarma	You wrote "dependancy".	01:40
shawarma	It should be "dependency".	01:40
sacater	hang on a mo	01:40
sacater	ok	01:40
sacater	anjuta (1:1.2.4a-5ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low	01:40
sacater	* Dependancy change (autogen changed from recommends to dependency) (LP: #81310)	01:40
sacater	-- Sam Cater <sacater@btopenworld.com> Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:14:54 +0000	01:40
sacater	better?	01:40
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shawarma	Heh..	01:41
sacater	heh?	01:41
Adri2000	... :)	01:41
shawarma	" * Dependency change (autogen changed from recommends to depends) (LP: #81310)"	01:41
shawarma	Like so.	01:41
shawarma	You keep writing "dependancy" instead of "dependency". :-	01:41
shawarma	)	01:41
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sacater	meh	01:41
sacater	changing..	01:41
shawarma	Also, in the parentheses, put "depends" instead of "dependency".	01:42
sacater	http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11326/	01:42
shawarma	Yay!	01:43
sacater	yays!	01:43
sacater	now ill paste the control, see what you make of it	01:43
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shawarma	You need to change the maintainer according to policy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField	01:46
shawarma	Short version:	01:46
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shawarma	Change the current "Maintainer" key to "XSBC-Original-Maintainer" and put a new line: "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"	01:47
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Q-FUNK	would anyone happen to know what is the filename of the Run dialog used in gnome?	01:59
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sacater	shawarma: Adri2000L Fujitsu http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11331/	02:06
jwendell	Q-FUNK, what do you mean? run dialog is part of gnome-panel package	02:07
Q-FUNK	jwendell: part of gnome-panel, ok, but what is the executable's name?	02:08
Q-FUNK	it has to be some binary or a library function of some sort.	02:09
jwendell	Q-FUNK, executable name: gnome-panel	02:09
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shawarma	sacater: Er... Something's wrong with your line endings.	02:10
sacater	shawarma: explain :D	02:11
shawarma	sacater: Look at them. You will se.	02:11
shawarma	see, even.	02:11
sacater	nop	02:12
Adri2000	sacater: don't use nano :P	02:12
sacater	dont see anything	02:12
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sacater	ill use tea	02:12
shawarma	Look at it in the pastebin. Not your editor.	02:12
Adri2000	sacater: and, do you think that XSBC-Original-Maintainer will maintain anjuta?	02:12
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shawarma	Adri2000: G	02:13
sacater	thats what shawarma said	02:13
shawarma	sacater: No. I said to change the key	02:13
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shawarma	sacater: Not the value.	02:13
sacater	one moment....	02:13
sacater	hows this http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11332/	02:14
shawarma	13:47 < shawarma> Change the current "Maintainer" key to "XSBC-Original-Maintainer" and put a new line: "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"	02:14
sacater	shawarma: can you change and paste for please	02:14
shawarma	sacater: Well, the line endings look better.	02:14
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shawarma	I'm on it.	02:15
shawarma	http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11333/	02:17
sacater	ty	02:18
shawarma	I hate to break your spirit though, but I actually liked it better when autogen was a recommends.	02:18
shawarma	:-)	02:18
shawarma	According to policy, "Depends" should list the stuff that, if not installed, would render the package useless.	02:19
shawarma	IIRC, that i.s	02:19
shawarma	The package is not useless. It's just less that completely useful when programming something using autotools.	02:19
sacater	shawarma: well it was a bug report :( so ill try to fix it, ill see what the almighty laserjock says later	02:19
sacater	http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11335/	02:19
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sacater	hows that?	02:19
bersace	hi all	02:20
shawarma	sacater: What did you change?	02:20
bersace	without seahorse, i success to dput babl !	02:20
bersace	please revu ;)	02:20
sacater	shawarma: added what you pasted, and pasted it for you to confirm	02:20
stgraber	shawarma: Hi, any progress with this network-manager-openvpn stuff ?	02:21
shawarma	sacater: Yes, but what different from what I pasted?	02:21
shawarma	stgraber: Sorry, no.	02:21
sacater	oh nothing	02:21
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bersace	what do you as gpg-agent ? gnome-gpg or gpgp or seahorse ?	02:30
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saispo	hi bersace :) (i'm the guy who wrote you an email about apple keyboard ;)	02:35
bersace	hi saispo, (i remember you pseudo)	02:36
saispo	:)	02:36
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sacater	okay my machine is having web connection troubles because of 82.211.81.132 my router shows it trys to break out of my machine near startup, whats going on	02:43
bersace	should i set Section to "universe/*" in package before upload ?	02:44
bersace	is it automatically done ?	02:44
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bersace	is it normal if dput does not upload orig.tar.gz ?	02:49
fernando	hey all	02:50
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Adri2000	bersace: 1) no, 2) yes, probably, 3) if you want to upload the orig.tar.gz, you have to use -sa when building the source package	02:53
bersace	Adri2000: thanks !	02:53
bersace	Ok	02:55
bersace	Please revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4711	02:55
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crimsun	have I mentioned how much of a PITA high def audio (HDA) is ?	02:56
crimsun	Sigmatel and Realtek can both go to hades	02:57
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bersace	Does it makes sense to advocate our own uploads ???	03:01
Adri2000	no	03:01
crimsun	you can, but we'll just ignore your advocate, or worse, your upload altogether	03:01
bersace	ok, make sens	03:05
bersace	e	03:05
bersace	details.py should hide the check box for contributor, (just like comments for non-owned contribution for contributors)	03:05
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siretart	bersace: patches welcome	03:17
bersace	siretart: where is the source ?	03:18
siretart	bersace: https://code.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk	03:21
bersace	siretart: thanks	03:21
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Adri2000	bddebian!!	03:23
bddebian	Heya gang	03:24
bddebian	Hi Adri2000	03:24
bersace	siretart: where is documented the template language ?	03:27
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bersace	siretart: where to send patch (do i have to publish a bzr branch ?)	03:31
Adri2000	bersace: you have a patch already?	03:32
bersace	Adri2000: for commentform.html template	03:33
Adri2000	bersace: can I see it?	03:33
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bersace	Go to #flood	03:33
bersace	Adri2000: join #flood, i'll post it there	03:33
bersace	Adri2000: fine ?	03:34
Adri2000	ok	03:35
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siretart	bersace: preferably publish your branch to launchpad. you may send links to your branch to {sistpoty,siretart}@ubuntu.com	03:35
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bersace	siretart: ok	03:35
Adri2000	bersace: if (level != 'Contributor'), show the checkbox?	03:37
Adri2000	yeah, right	03:37
bersace	Adri2000: it shows the checkbox only if you are not a contributor	03:37
Adri2000	there is contributor and reviewer I think?	03:38
bersace	how to delete a branch ?	03:39
Adri2000	bersace: why not "if (level == 'reviewer')" then? :)	03:40
bersace	because i don't know how much level there is	03:40
siretart	bersace: you don't delete branches. you mark them as 'deprecated' or 'superseeded' or something	03:40
siretart	bersace: I suspect launchpad will garbage collect them at some point	03:41
bersace	i wish	03:41
Adri2000	bersace: I don't know either, but if there is a level for non-logged people, your code will show the checkbox to them	03:41
bersace	no	03:41
bersace	because the non-logged people don't see the form at all	03:41
bersace	(see details.py)	03:41
Adri2000	right, ok	03:41
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bersace	well, it should be there : https://code.launchpad.net/~bersace/+branch/revu/bersace	03:42
bersace	bzr ends with : sh: connect to host launchpad.net port 22: Connection timed out	03:43
bersace	Created new branch.	03:43
bersace	:S	03:43
siretart	bersace: looks good :) - now fix stuff ;)	03:43
bersace	?	03:43
bersace	siretart: which stuff do i have to fix ?	03:44
siretart	bersace: sorry, I'm a bit lagging with irc	03:44
siretart	bersace: ignore my comment	03:44
bersace	ok	03:44
bersace	nop	03:44
bersace	is it ok ? does my branch contains the fix ?	03:46
bersace	well, i forgot to commit	03:46
bersace	:S	03:46
bersace	ok, it's in !	03:48
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giskard	siretart, ping	03:50
bersace	siretart: can you merge from https://code.launchpad.net/~bersace/+branch/revu/bersace ?	03:50
siretart	bersace: please write me a mail, I'm at work right now :(	03:51
bersace	oops sorry	03:51
siretart	giskard: pong	03:51
siretart	bersace: well I did look at that anyway. What about admins? they may advocate as well ;)	03:52
bersace	siretart: :)	03:53
bersace	where are documented levels ?	03:53
siretart	revu was a quick hack, all documentation is in the branch	03:53
siretart	but there are only 3 levels	03:53
bersace	rhm	03:53
giskard	siretart, i wanted to know what you decided about wpasupplicant + dbus, but i see the bug was closed (i didn't noticed even if i was the submitter)	03:54
giskard	so i will read it	03:54
siretart	giskard: wpasupplicant 0.6, which is packaged in debian/experimental has dbus support	03:55
bersace	siretart: is it possible to be admin AND contributor ???	03:55
siretart	bersace: all admins are considered as both reviewers and contributors	03:55
bersace	but level is a string	03:56
siretart	yes	03:56
siretart	it's a hack, as said ;)	03:56
bersace	so, if level is admins, it will be shown !	03:56
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giskard	siretart, true.	03:57
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siretart	bersace: ok, I'll take a closer look later	03:59
siretart	bersace: thanks for your patch, feel free to continue hacking on revu!	03:59
bersace	i may fix a bit the html	03:59
=== bersace hate ugly html
bersace	but, hey, i have gnome-scan to develop	04:00
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siretart	bersace: I just merged your change	04:06
bersace	thanks	04:06
bersace	i just mailed the patch ;)	04:06
bersace	tested on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4714 , i can still add comment, but advocating is said to no	04:07
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jdong	good morning world.	04:13
fernando	jdong: moin	04:16
AstralJava	I've a question, if I've submitted something to REVU, but change some files inside the package, before it is processed, how should I treat this; in bzr branch, and in REVU uploading?	04:28
\sh	moins	04:30
crimsun	AstralJava: push changes to your bzr branch, regenerate srcpkg and reupload to revu	04:30
AstralJava	Thank you crimsun!	04:30
AstralJava	So when does one use debian/patches directory, is it just for changes to upstream source?	04:32
crimsun	beagle doesn't index evolution inbox(es)?	04:32
crimsun	debian/patches/ is used if it already exists	04:32
crimsun	but yes, for changes to upstream source	04:32
AstralJava	Okay, now the picture's getting clearer. Thanks again. :)	04:32
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Toadstool	g'morning everybody	04:51
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bddebian	Heya Toadstool	04:51
Toadstool	hey bddebian	04:52
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PF-Away	jdong: ping	04:59
jdong	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New/HowTo?highlight=%28MOTU%2FPackages%2FPackaging%29	05:00
PF-Away	thanks	05:00
jdong	hmm that might not be the best page;	05:00
jdong	try navigating "up" one level	05:00
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PF-Away	ok	05:00
PF-Away	konqueror's up button is cool	05:01
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OffHand	is the the packaging channel?	05:03
danohuiginn	OffHand: this is a good place to ask about packaging, yes.	05:11
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PF-Away	can i ask why a postinst script would return error code 20, but only when invoked by dpkg?	05:12
PF-Away	it's related to bug #91399, btw;)	05:12
Ubugtu	Malone bug 91399 in console-setup "fail to install with subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 3" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91399	05:12
OffHand	danohuiginn: I got this problem with making a deb of Nicotine+	05:14
OffHand	problem is that it doesn't use the standard ./configure /make atc	05:14
OffHand	that means I will have to tune the rules file accordingly right?	05:15
swarog	can someone review chrootbin please	05:15
OffHand	this file: http://pastebin.co.uk/12119	05:15
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swarog	1month since it had last update	05:17
swarog	its a simple script	05:17
danohuiginn	OffHand: I'm no expert on this - but yes, you probably will need to change some bits	05:19
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danohuiginn	just replacing the bits that are commented as 'put commands to configure/compile/etc here'	05:20
\sh	re	05:22
danohuiginn	OffHand: you're making a completely new deb, not adjusting the existing nicotine .deb?	05:23
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OffHand	danohuiginn: I didn't know you could edit the excisiting one	05:34
OffHand	that I*	05:35
OffHand	I'll bug debians gnome packager about it I supose	05:35
danohuiginn	Offhand: see http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/, especially the 'updating packages' chapter	05:37
danohuiginn	and good luck!	05:37
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OffHand	cheers	05:40
dholbach	I assigned a lot of crasher bugs to motu	05:50
dholbach	it'd be nice to get them forwarded and sorted for feisty release	05:50
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soc	hi	05:53
crimsun	I have no idea how I'm going to find time to do that and alsa :/	05:54
soc	is there a plan when kile on amd64 will be updated to 1.9?	05:54
soc	it seems kile was forgotten when ubuntu synced with debian two times	05:54
soc	sinde edgy this is broken	05:55
crimsun	kile \| 1:1.9.1-1 \| http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages	05:55
crimsun	kile \| 1:1.9.3-1 \| http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources	05:55
crimsun	(i386)	05:55
soc	http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=kile&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all	05:55
soc	see the problem?	05:55
soc	it's there for i386 but not for amd64	05:56
soc	which is weird because the debian.org-packages work flawlessly	05:56
crimsun	https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kile/1:1.9.3-1	05:56
Adri2000	it's there too for amd64, but it failed to build (on all arches)	05:56
soc	but the version in the repos breaks lyx, and the whole tetex/livetex packages	05:56
crimsun	g++ -Wno-long-long -Wundef -ansi -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_BSD_SOURCE -Wcast-align -Wconversion -Wchar-subscripts -Wall -W -Wpointer-arith -DNDEBUG -DNO_DEBUG -O2 -g -Wall -O2 -Wformat-security -Wmissing-format-attribute -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -fno-exceptions -fno-check-new -fno-common -DQT_CLEAN_NAMESPACE -DQT_NO_ASCII_CAST -DQT_NO_STL -DQT_NO_COMPAT -DQT_NO_TRANSLATION -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -D_REENTRANT /build/buildd/kile-1.9.3/./src/ki	05:57
imbrandon	dholbach, ugh more stuff	05:57
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crimsun	/build/buildd/kile-1.9.3/./src/kile/tips.cpp:2: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before '(' token	05:57
imbrandon	;)	05:57
crimsun	repeated numerous time	05:57
crimsun	s	05:57
soc	I can't access the page ... it's restricted to the members of the beta tester team	05:57
imbrandon	soc, drop beta out of the url	05:57
crimsun	https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kile/1:1.9.3-1	05:57
dholbach	imbrandon: crasher bugs should get special attention, as they're quite visible :)	05:58
imbrandon	dholbach, ;) i'll see if i can spend some time on them this evening	05:58
dholbach	upstream's might have a fix already or they'll be happy to learn about the bug	05:59
dholbach	i'll add it to the announce of the universe hug day	05:59
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soc	mh ok	05:59
imbrandon	crimsun, hehee	05:59
crimsun	man, Sigmatel sucks	06:00
crimsun	same codec revision breaks across multiple models	06:00
soc	I think it's quite important, because 1.8 depends on tetex (unmaintained) and everything else depends on livetex	06:00
soc	und you can't install both	06:01
imbrandon	crimsun, nice	06:01
imbrandon	soc, is there a bug filed?	06:01
crimsun	for values of nice between "ugh" and "expletive", sure	06:02
imbrandon	that might be a good first step if your not able to fix	06:02
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geser	imbrandon: bug #67263 should cover it	06:03
Ubugtu	Malone bug 67263 in kile "Dependency on AMD64 needs to be updated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67263	06:03
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Toadstool	dholbach: when is the next ubuntu hug day?	06:13
dholbach	next week I think	06:14
dholbach	Universe HUG DAY friday	06:14
Toadstool	hmm, dunno if I'll be able to show up on friday, it's gonna be crazy at work :/	06:16
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\sh	dholbach: do you know why ekg source is in main, and binaries are in universe?	06:21
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dholbach	\sh: no idea, sorry	06:22
\sh	dholbach: k, thx, I'll ask on -devel	06:22
dholbach	Filename: pool/main/e/ekg/libgadu3_1.7~rc2-1build1_i386.deb	06:23
dholbach	libgadu3 is in main	06:23
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stockholm	so how can i hop over a target in cdbs?	06:23
\sh	argl...	06:23
\sh	because libgadu3 is in main	06:23
stockholm	i want to skip the build target, or make it an empty one.	06:23
stockholm	it just installs stuff which gets installed in install_lib too	06:24
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stockholm	how can i make a cdbs target an empty one?	06:25
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crimsun	just override it	06:26
crimsun	(and make it empty, of course)	06:26
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stockholm	crimsun: how do i override it? write a build: line withnothing done?	06:27
crimsun	build::	06:27
stockholm	crimsun: what do the double colons mean?	06:29
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crimsun	stockholm: that's the syntax	06:29
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\sh	hmmm...guys, I think I'm blind or too tired, is there any tool to create an deb package repository Release file?	06:30
Lamego	\sh, dpkg-scanpackages	06:31
\sh	Lamego: that creates the Packages files. but not the Release file :)	06:32
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crimsun	I would just like to comment that the 'S' in STAC_MACBOOK_PRO_V2_S does not stand for "sexy" but for another four-letter word beginning with 's' and containing one vowel, i.	06:33
jdong	slit.	06:34
crimsun	how did you guess?!!one	06:34
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jdong	I am magical like that.	06:34
crimsun	(I nearly used STAC_MACBOOK_PRO_V2_TONIO but thought the better of it)	06:36
Lamego	\sh, check http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt	06:38
Lamego	Create a toplevel Release file. if it does not exist already. You can do this by running apt-ftparchive release (provided inftp apt-utils).	06:38
\sh	Lamego: thx a lot :)	06:40
Lamego	np :)	06:41
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cbx33	anyone ever had cannot contact gnome settings daemon on loggin into gnome	06:53
cbx33	takes ages to come up	06:53
cbx33	about 5 minutes ususally	06:53
cbx33	won't login at all	06:53
cbx33	i had this problem before on a machine which was running beryl	06:53
cbx33	but this machine hasn't got/never had beryl	06:53
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bersace	Hi all	07:31
bersace	how to trim all .svn from sources ?	07:31
bersace	is there any automatics for that task ?	07:32
Ursinha	what do you mean?	07:32
Ursinha	i use find	07:32
bersace	i think about cdbs	07:32
bersace	tarball.mk has something about that	07:33
Ursinha	let me see	07:33
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bersace	Uploaded gegl : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4715 :)	07:40
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psusi	you might want to do a clean svn export instead	07:41
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LaserJock	ah stink	07:57
LaserJock	any MOTU Council people about?	07:57
_MMA_	Yeah. You do.	07:57
LaserJock	_MMA_: :p	07:57
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jwendell	geser, your gpg key on LP is 968BD587, but you signed your message with 776E82EA. Do you have both? Should i sign both?	07:57
_MMA_	:)	07:57
LaserJock	_MMA_: get my pm yesterday?	07:57
_MMA_	LaserJock: I got your message and saw the mail.	07:57
tsmithe	LaserJock, is this about the NEW packages?	07:58
LaserJock	k	07:58
_MMA_	https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-March/001478.html	07:58
LaserJock	yes	07:58
tsmithe	i think that's a great proposal :)	07:58
LaserJock	well, we just has some miscommunication with Ubuntu Archive	07:58
tsmithe	(of course, it's because i want wired and enblend in :P)	07:58
tsmithe	i'm pretty sure i was told that they'd be looked at	07:58
LaserJock	yeah, we just didn't convey that to ubuntu-archive apparently	07:59
_MMA_	tsmithe: Was there any email communication about them?	07:59
tsmithe	nope - just IRC pings	07:59
LaserJock	_MMA_: no, that's problem of course ;-)	07:59
_MMA_	:(	07:59
LaserJock	we were all sitting there wanting tsmithe sweat	07:59
_MMA_	lol	07:59
LaserJock	s/wanting/watching/	07:59
tsmithe	ahhh	07:59
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tsmithe	now i get it :P	07:59
LaserJock	"just a little more time"	07:59
tsmithe	so, indeed "lol"	07:59
LaserJock	"i'm almost there!"	08:00
LaserJock	"one more upload, pleeease"	08:00
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_MMA_	Its funny making 14 year olds sweat. :)	08:00
geser	jwendell: 968BD587 is the primary key and 776E82EA is a subkey of it	08:00
tsmithe	_MMA_, not 14 damnit!!	08:00
_MMA_	lol!	08:00
tsmithe	:)	08:01
geser	jwendell: you shouldn't sign either one if you don't have met me in person (or how to you want to verify that the information on the key is right?)	08:02
tsmithe	LaserJock, i remember the scrabble to get them all in on time, so i'd be sad if they don't make it	08:03
_MMA_	tsmithe: We'll still use them they just wont be in Ubuntu.	08:03
tsmithe	cool cool	08:03
LaserJock	nah	08:05
LaserJock	they'll be in	08:05
tsmithe	excellent	08:05
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=== tsmithe gets food
tsmithe	later all	08:05
tsmithe	later bddebian	08:05
geser	jwendell: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x968BD587&op=vindex gives you a detailed view on my key (there you also see my three subkeys)	08:05
geser	hi bddebian	08:06
bddebian	later tsmithe	08:06
bddebian	Heya geser	08:06
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bersace	siretart: i made a patch in order not to show table comments header in details.py	08:22
siretart	url?	08:22
bersace	and show nothing in advocating column in column table	08:23
bersace	for contributor	08:23
bersace	(since it's useless	08:23
bersace	)	08:23
bersace	i'm commiting to my branch	08:24
bersace	note that i can't execute to test	08:24
bersace	so, it's a bit a blind coding ;)	08:24
bersace	commited	08:24
bersace	where is the link to my branches in my launchpad account profile ?	08:25
bersace	found	08:25
bersace	https://code.launchpad.net/~bersace/+branch/revu/bersace	08:25
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ajmitch	morning	08:27
pochu	hi ajmitch	08:27
=== _MMA_ waves.
LaserJock	hi ajmitch	08:27
bddebian	Heya ajmitch	08:28
LaserJock	oh, so that's on Council Grayskull person up	08:28
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LaserJock	*one	08:28
ajmitch	uh oh	08:28
LaserJock	hehe	08:28
LaserJock	oh yeah	08:28
LaserJock	you better run	08:29
=== ajmitch takes it as his queue to run away
LaserJock	;-)	08:29
ajmitch	bah	08:29
ajmitch	s/queue/cue/	08:29
ajmitch	I am not awake yet	08:29
LaserJock	well, this silly NewPackageFreeze thing	08:29
LaserJock	you guys said you'd take exceptions until Beta Freeze	08:29
Burgwork	ajmitch: morning	08:29
ajmitch	sounds like a motu-uvf thing to decide ;)	08:29
ajmitch	morning Burgwork	08:29
LaserJock	well, the Council said exceptions would be made up until the 15th	08:30
LaserJock	so we have beryl-*	08:30
bersace	siretart: do you intend to merge ?	08:30
LaserJock	and stuff in the queue from after the freeze	08:30
LaserJock	that hasn't gotten processed	08:30
ajmitch	ah fun	08:31
LaserJock	and we're obviously past the 15th	08:31
ajmitch	LaserJock: try telling sabdfl that he can't have beryl	08:31
LaserJock	hmm, that'd be fun	08:31
LaserJock	:-)	08:31
siretart	bersace: sec, galeon crashed for me	08:31
bersace	oops	08:31
siretart	bersace: did you manage to setup a test installation so you can test your changes?	08:32
=== LaserJock thinks he has upload rights to Universe so he could do it himself ;-)
LaserJock	s/he/Mark/	08:32
bersace	siretart: is it possible without db ?	08:32
siretart	bersace: nope, you'd need a postgresql db	08:32
bersace	well, i don't want to install all of this just for that	08:33
siretart	I can imagine	08:33
ajmitch	LaserJock: hah, that would be funny	08:35
siretart	it looks okay	08:35
siretart	and works :)	08:37
siretart	bersace: thanks for your patches	08:38
bersace	nop	08:38
bersace	thank you for revuing my packages :P	08:38
\sh	man...what can change the search order of lib directories...	08:38
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siretart	bersace: how comes that your .diff.gz is so huge?	08:41
bersace	this is due to regeneration of random stuff in docs.	08:41
bersace	gegl and babl docs are very tuned	08:41
bersace	sorry	08:41
bersace	i'm not a debianisation guru (see the number of uploads )	08:42
siretart	no problem	08:42
siretart	but please try to tidy up your .diff.gz	08:42
siretart	I spot *.debhelper files	08:42
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siretart	they should go away in your clean target	08:42
siretart	bersace: is it really necessary to regenerate the docs?	08:43
bersace	i dunno why it's in the diff	08:43
siretart	bersace: they seem unnecessary to me. if it's not, please state why somewhere (either debian/README.Debian or debian/changelog or something)	08:44
bersace	docs ? unnecessary ?	08:44
siretart	unnecessary in the diff.gz	08:44
siretart	if they are generated by some build script, please call it from debian/rules, so that it needn't to go into the .diff.gz	08:45
siretart	or did you create them by hand?	08:45
bersace	no	08:45
siretart	ok. then they should not go into .diff.gz	08:46
bersace	how to ?	08:46
siretart	looks like upstream's build system is somewhat broken.	08:47
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bersace	siretart: upstream build system is quite hacked	08:50
bersace	and does not passes make distcheck	08:50
siretart	:(	08:51
bersace	i know	08:51
bersace	they are fixing this in SVN	08:52
bersace	also, they have added win32 build support	08:52
bersace	i fixed up a bit the build system, but didn't reach to make distcheck	08:52
siretart	but the debhelper files cannot result from broken upstream	08:53
siretart	you seem to have done something strange before uploading	08:53
bersace	i debuild	08:53
siretart	like not having run 'debclean' before 'debuild' or something	08:53
bersace	without -S	08:53
bersace	no distclean rule	08:53
=== siretart dinner
bersace	bon apptit	08:54
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bersace	how to mark as superseded a bzr branch ?	08:55
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wereHamster	hi there	09:08
Intangir	hi	09:08
sladen	groovy	09:08
Intangir	so you wont have to add an extra repo to get wine in fiesty? or what?	09:08
\sh	Intangir: no...winehq packages are third party...scott (the maintainer of winehq packages) and I are working closely together	09:09
sladen	Intangir: we have four repos, main+restricted (core free/non-free) and universe+multiverse (everything else free/non-free)	09:09
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sladen	Intangir: wine has been in universe for along time; winehq kindly originally came and made sure it was as the wine packages via Debian had begun to suck	09:10
sladen	Intangir: we currently have 0.9.33-0ubuntu1	09:11
Intangir	ok cool	09:12
Intangir	yall should add yukon into ubuntu repos somewhere before too long ;)	09:12
Intangir	it is badass	09:12
Intangir	faster than xvidcap and istanbul	09:12
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sladen	Intangir: what are yukon, xvidcap and istanbul?	09:14
sladen	if you're interesting in doing that yourself, here in -motu would be the best place to start learning	09:14
sladen	start at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU	09:14
TheMuso	Hey MOTUs.	09:15
shawarma	Hi, TheMuso.	09:17
bddebian	Heya TheMuso	09:17
Intangir	hahaha	09:19
Intangir	masters of the universe, i just checked that wiki ;)	09:19
Intangir	was wondering what the heck motu meant..	09:19
Intangir	sladen: all 3 of those programs are for capping video of your desktop	09:20
\sh	sladen: the problem is something else, and it looks like only with the binary result of wine compiled on ubuntu (dapper,egdy, feisty)	09:20
Intangir	or yukon is just gl stuff i think, the other two cap your desktop	09:20
\sh	sladen: normally, when you set LD_LIBRARY_PATH , the default search order of libs must be LD_LIBRARY_PATH,<System lib directories>	09:20
\sh	sladen: when you set now LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/user/lib wine <whatever windows app>, you can see in the strace output that /usr/bin/wine (elf executable) is not honoring this search order	09:21
sladen	TheMuso: hello down under!	09:21
\sh	sladen: it just searches system lib dirs, and when it doesn't find the lib, then it searches LD_LIBRARY_PATH	09:22
TheMuso	Hey sladen.	09:22
\sh	sladen: and it's reproducable with the third party package from scott ritchie (maintainer for the packages on winehq) as well with our binary packages	09:22
\sh	sladen: funny thing, when you compile wine from source, and executes the tools/winewrapper script with a LD_LIBRARY_PATH set beforehand, it honors the search order	09:23
sladen	\sh: so I guess that wine is doing its own linking using raw dlopen, rather than the system linker's	09:23
\sh	weired, strange and complicated	09:23
sladen	so if you execute winewrapper from our binary, does that work?	09:23
\sh	sladen: yepp, but why is it working with binaries in the sourcetree, executed by the winewrapper script	09:23
\sh	sladen: no...winewrapper only works in a wine sourcetree	09:24
sladen	what about using LD_PRELOAD?	09:24
Intangir	i tried to do the same kind of thing winewrapper does, on the binary installed by the package	09:24
Intangir	but it didnt work	09:24
sladen	http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-patches/2004-February/009507.html ?	09:25
Intangir	i tried LD_PRELOAD too, it didnt work	09:26
\sh	nope...that's especially for a compiled wine started from the sourcetree	09:26
sladen	so in normal use, winewrapper never sees the light of day?	09:26
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sladen	if [ -n "$LD_LIBRARY_PATH" ] ; then	09:28
sladen	export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$WINELIB:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH	09:28
sladen	else	09:28
sladen	export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$WINELIB	09:28
sladen	fairly, simple, it inserts $WINELIB before LD_LIBRARY_PATH and re-exports	09:28
sladen	that's in /usr/bin/winelauncher	09:28
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sladen	but actually what gets run is /usr/bin/wine	09:28
sladen	which runs either /usr/bin/wine-pthread or /usr/bin/wine-kthread	09:29
Intangir	mine says its running glibc	09:29
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Intangir	but if that is in the winewrapper script, while using the script, it works	09:30
Intangir	when NOT using the script, it doesnt..	09:30
sladen	so ignoring anything to do with source-trees	09:31
sladen	just running LD_LIBRARY_PATH=... wine foobar.exe does not do what it should?	09:31
\sh	nope	09:32
\sh	that's the problem...	09:32
\sh	it searches first /usr/bin/../lib/... and then, when it really doesn't find the needed lib, it looks in LD_LIBRARY_PATH	09:33
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sladen	checked with strace?	09:34
\sh	jepp	09:35
\sh	using winelauncher doesn't fix the problem, too	09:40
\sh	this frightens me more and more...	09:41
\sh	sladen: did you ever see something like this?	09:43
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shawarma	\sh: You sure it's not wine doing it by itself?	09:51
=== shawarma hasn't read the entire conversation.
\sh	Intangir: try LD_PRELOAD and your libGL.so name...	09:52
\sh	Intangir: that works somehow	09:52
\sh	shawarma: I think wine is doing something strange I 'll file a bug upstream, imho it's the best we can do...	09:53
Intangir	\sh: ill try it	09:53
wereHamster	sladen, LD_PRELOAD can't be used because wine used dlopen() to explicitely load libGL.so	09:53
shawarma	\sh: If wine circumvents ld, I doubt it's by accident. :-)	09:53
\sh	wereHamster: from strace it worked	09:53
\sh	shawarma: doing it from the sourcetree with a wrapper script it works ;)	09:54
shawarma	\sh: Interesting.	09:54
sladen	to me it doesn't seem that big a deal; it seems semi-obvious that something like LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$WINELIB:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH is happening somewhere (shell script, or in-binary) and that it just needs to be found and swapped if it's an issue	09:54
shawarma	Maybe it sets and rpatg?	09:55
shawarma	rpath, even?	09:55
wereHamster	\sh, what did you LD_PRELOAD?	09:55
Intangir	wereHamster: didnt we try LD_PRELOAD yesterday and it didnt work?	09:55
sladen	wine circumvents ld because it has to do be able to load (a) unix libraries (b) unixified win32 libraries (c) Win32 DLLs/EXEs	09:55
Intangir	i think i tried it, and the hotkey still didnt work	09:55
\sh	wereHamster: LD_PRELOAD=/home/user/lib/libGL.so wine notepad...and it loads from this directory directly and not from the system lib dir	09:55
sladen	hotkey?	09:55
Intangir	its loading libGL? but notepad doesnt even use libGL	09:56
sladen	notepad is a unixified win32 library	09:56
\sh	Intangir: just try :)	09:56
wereHamster	Intangir, winex11.drv opens libGL.so	09:56
Intangir	wereHamster: where does it put the yukon libs again?	09:57
sladen	remember that DirectX gets proxied to OpenGL	09:57
sladen	s/DirectX/Direct3D/	09:57
Intangir	wine: error while loading shared libraries: libX11.so.native: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory	09:57
wereHamster	Intangir, you'll still need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH= (/usr/local/lib/yukon)	09:58
sladen	LD_LIBRARY_PATH=... ; LD_PRELOAD=/home/user/lib/libGL.so wine ...	09:58
Intangir	it seems to work	09:59
Intangir	it at least prints the setup info when the dll loads?	09:59
Intangir	but i think yesterday when i trie dthe hotkey didnt work	09:59
Intangir	ill try it tonight with World of Warcraft ;)	09:59
Intangir	odd ;)	10:00
wereHamster	\sh, do you have access to the machine that builds the wine deb package?	10:00
\sh	wereHamster: nope :)	10:00
\sh	wereHamster: but even with my locally compiled package it's happening	10:00
sladen	it's a strange question. what did you want to ask?	10:00
sladen	the build-daemons complile stuff, based on an signed upload	10:01
wereHamster	any possibility to see config.log after ./configure has been run?	10:01
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wereHamster	I can see where the problem could be	10:03
\sh	wereHamster: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6880441/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.wine_0.9.33-0ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz	10:03
wereHamster	.. but I'd need to see config.log to confirm it	10:03
wereHamster	:( nope, seems to be correct: checking for -lGL soname... libGL.so.1	10:04
Intangir	hrm?	10:05
wereHamster	Intangir, could you try $ cd /usr/local/lib/yukon && sudo ln -s libGL.so.1 libGL.so	10:06
wereHamster	and then try with 'yukon [...] ' only?	10:06
Intangir	didnt load your dll	10:08
Intangir	oh wait i need verbose..	10:08
\sh	wereHamster: I'll guess it won't fix it :) because the search order is totally wrong :)	10:08
Intangir	ya no load	10:08
wereHamster	it could have.. if wine did dlopen("libGL.so	10:09
wereHamster	") instead og "libGL.so.1"	10:09
\sh	open("/usr/bin/../lib/i686/cmov/libGL.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)	10:09
\sh	open("/usr/bin/../lib/i686/libGL.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)	10:09
\sh	open("/usr/bin/../lib/libGL.so.1", O_RDONLY) = 10	10:09
Intangir	wereHamster: just add LD_PRELOAD to your yukon script as a work around	10:09
Intangir	well ill test it later	10:10
Intangir	tonight, on wow	10:10
\sh	and to verify this, you could see this at the beginning:	10:10
Intangir	make sure hotkey works and let you know	10:10
\sh	open("/usr/bin/../lib/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)	10:10
\sh	open("/usr/bin/../lib/i686/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)	10:10
\sh	open("/usr/bin/../lib/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)	10:10
\sh	open("/home/shermann/newlib/tls/i686/sse2/cmov/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)	10:10
\sh	so the searchorder is cluttered...	10:10
\sh	ok..just having my last cigarette for today, and then I have to leave the office :( second time, that I leave the office after 8pm grmpf	10:13
wereHamster	how hard is it to compile a patched deb source? (eg. if I send you a patch that you apply before building wine from a deb source)?	10:13
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wereHamster	$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib32/yukon /opt/wereHamster/wine/bin/wine /games/World.of.Warcraft/WoW.exe	10:16
wereHamster	err:wgl:has_opengl LD_LIBRARY_PATH just before wine_dlopen(libGL.so.1): /usr/lib32/yukon	10:16
\sh	wereHamster: when you send it to me now, I can do a testbuild, and publish it somewhere tomorrow for testing :)	10:17
\sh	wereHamster: but it has to be against 0.9.33 :)	10:18
wereHamster	\sh, http://www.pastey.net/8845 - against HEAD	10:18
wereHamster	but should apply to .33 as well	10:18
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\sh	I'll stay a few minutes more...let's see how fast my buildserver is today :)	10:22
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Intangir	well good luck guys	10:23
Intangir	im gonna get back to work	10:23
Intangir	i dont know how so many people can make so much great software and still make a living	10:24
Intangir	i mean so much great software for free ;) and still make a living	10:24
Intangir	you guys will have to explain that to me one day	10:24
\sh	Intangir: time management ;)	10:24
\sh	Intangir: and a good employer who allows some things ;)	10:25
crimsun	(or in my case, lack thereof)	10:25
\sh	hmm...living in cologne, working in karlsruhe...what else can I do then packaging or writing software ;)	10:25
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crimsun	drink heavily.	10:25
\sh	hehe	10:25
\sh	that we did last year...when we were freelancer...	10:26
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Intangir	\sh: where are you from?	10:28
\sh	Intangir: germany	10:28
Intangir	im from united state	10:28
Intangir	s	10:28
Intangir	formerly the land of the free?	10:28
Intangir	hehehe	10:28
Intangir	or so im told	10:28
Intangir	\sh: how old are you if you dont mind me asking	10:29
\sh	Intangir: well, feeling like eighteen, being thirty-six, and looking like sixty ,-)	10:30
wereHamster	:D	10:30
Intangir	i saw a story the other day about home schooling in germany	10:30
Intangir	apparently its illegal cause of a law hitler passed ;) and its still enforced	10:31
Intangir	seems to be the common believe that children should only be educated by the state over there	10:31
nixternal	\sh: more like 80 ;p	10:31
Intangir	which scares me, cause you know how made that the law so he could start warping young fresh mines, all you gotta do is get them while they are young, thats what they are working on here in the states	10:32
crimsun	nixternal's secret to youth is running Vista.	10:32
\sh	Intangir: well we have home schooling, e.g. for children traveling with their families (e.g. circus families), or artists...and as well, we have private schools which are sometimes a good replacement for state schools	10:32
crimsun	cos it keeps the hackers away	10:32
nixternal	crimsun: please quit trolling in official Ubuntu IRC channels. kthxbye	10:32
nixternal	;p	10:32
\sh	nixternal: lol .. why did I shave my hair downto 1mm ;)	10:32
Intangir	\sh: ah	10:32
crimsun	nixternal: I blame _your_ sound card	10:33
nixternal	hahaha	10:33
nixternal	figures	10:33
nixternal	crimsun: check this out. at our LUG even on sunday, I had some tunes cranking through Amarok, and some guy said "dude your lappy speakers rock"	10:33
Intangir	hehe	10:34
Intangir	nixternal: where are you from?	10:35
LaserJock	Chicago	10:35
LaserJock	land of mobsters, wind, cold, and sucky baseball teams	10:36
Intangir	LUG = linux user group?	10:36
Intangir	yall meet in person?	10:36
Intangir	in chicago?	10:36
crimsun	as opposed to Nevada, where all the chemists smoke crack	10:36
LaserJock	crack?	10:36
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ajmitch	crimsun: only the finest for them	10:37
LaserJock	I've heard rumors about a prof having a thing for cocaine	10:37
LaserJock	but you didn't hear that from me ;-)	10:37
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\sh	LaserJock: names, pls, names ,)	10:46
\sh	in 1 hours and 14 minutes, my GF will be 36, too...oh wow...I don't even have a present for her :(	10:47
ajmitch	uh oh	10:47
wereHamster	at least you _know_ she has birthday!	10:47
wereHamster	so many people simply forget even that	10:47
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LaserJock	\sh: hurry hurry, get something!	10:51
\sh	wereHamster / Intangir: you can get special build packages from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ for feisty	10:52
\sh	shermann@LT420:~/newlib$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/shermann/newlib/ wine notepad	10:52
\sh	err:wgl:has_opengl LD_LIBRARY_PATH just before wine_dlopen(libGL.so.1): /home/shermann/newlib/	10:52
\sh	err:wgl:has_opengl LD_LIBRARY_PATH just before wine_dlopen(libGL.so.1): /home/shermann/newlib/	10:52
\sh	bullsh*t	10:53
\sh	not archive.ubuntu.com ;)	10:53
\sh	http://archive.linux-server.org/	10:53
wereHamster	and it still loads from /usr/bin/../lib ??	10:53
wereHamster	\sh, you should go home to your GF.. have a nice time with her	10:53
\sh	jepp	10:53
\sh	wereHamster: my GF is living 400km from my place ;)	10:54
\sh	I'll see her tomorrow evening :)	10:54
wereHamster	oh.. :(	10:54
crimsun	I don't think \sh is _that_ attached to wine that he would forsake a significant other.	10:55
wereHamster	I'll have to look into wine_dlopen() and see if that function tried to open libraries from /usr/bin/../lib first..	10:56
\sh	crimsun: well, wine is a bitch, and the lack of proper 3d hardware is another problem...many people are using wine just for playing WoW ,-)	10:57
wereHamster	\sh, s/many/most/	10:58
wereHamster	.. the vast majority :P	10:59
\sh	wereHamster: believe me when I tell you, that I know many people who are addicted to WoW for quite some time, and they were losing their job because of that...	10:59
\sh	anyhow...leaving office, trying to find my hotelbed again ;)	11:00
\sh	cu tomorrtow	11:00
ajmitch	bye \sh	11:00
wereHamster	night	11:00
=== ajmitch knows of people who were spending 20 hours/day on WoW
ajmitch	almost as addictive as ubuntu	11:00
TheMuso	ajmitch: Thats crazy.]	11:00
jdong	is that a brandon reference?	11:01
ajmitch	no kidding	11:01
ajmitch	no	11:01
Intangir	laters people	11:01
Intangir	good up the good work ;)	11:01
=== jdong has also seen quite a few friends get overly addicted to the thing
=== jekil2 is now known as jekil
crimsun	TheMuso: as opposed to, say, alsa?	11:01
TheMuso	crimsun: You got me there.	11:02
Intangir	lol	11:02
crimsun	I'd much rather have a WoW addiction. At least it's vaguely enjoyable.	11:02
Intangir	yall are talking about wow?	11:02
Intangir	ya i play about 3-4 hours a day about 4-5 days a week	11:02
TheMuso	Anyway, back in an hour or so.	11:02
Intangir	so .. too much considering all the other stuff i have to do in a day	11:02
Intangir	but at least not 20 hours a day ;)	11:02
Intangir	very cool game though	11:03
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Intangir	im on mug'thol btw ;) im on freenode all the time so message me if you need me for anything	11:03
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sistpoty	hi folks	11:07
ajmitch	hey sistpoty	11:10
sistpoty	hi ajmitch	11:10
ajmitch	how are you?	11:10
sistpoty	so far so good... and you?	11:10
ajmitch	alright :)	11:10
LaserJock	sistpoty!	11:11
LaserJock	hi	11:11
sistpoty	hi LaserJock	11:11
sistpoty	thanks for forwarding my mail... :)	11:11
LaserJock	sistpoty: np	11:12
crimsun	tsmithe: ping - do you have time to review ubuntu-edgy.git and ubuntu-2.6.git differences for sound/pci/ac97/ and sound/pci/intel8x0.c ?	11:18
tsmithe	crimsun, well, i've got a patch for one vendor from a week ago (maybe more, maybe less)	11:19
crimsun	tsmithe: which? (can you post the patch on a web site, please?)	11:20
tsmithe	sure	11:20
LaserJock	do apt-get and synaptic install Recommends: ?	11:20
tsmithe	crimsun, it would take some time to update the trees, and i was about to head off to bed; so it's unlikely that i can do a review right now	11:21
crimsun	tsmithe: ok	11:21
tsmithe	http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11403/ is what i got	11:21
tsmithe	hmm... shouldn't the patch want to be the other way around?	11:21
crimsun	either way, really.	11:23
crimsun	it's straightforward to see the logic is that it's a regression from edgy.	11:23
tsmithe	oh yea - it doesn't matter. duh. /me is very tired, dunno why	11:23
crimsun	ok, thanks. I'll apply this one and begin combing through my branches.	11:24
crimsun	I notice my thinkpad jack sense IDs went awry in feisty, too	11:24
tsmithe	hmm	11:24
crimsun	I'll take care of that portion; get some rest	11:25
crimsun	g'luck on your inspection (?)	11:25
tsmithe	hey yeah. how did you hear about that?	11:25
crimsun	(I'm in other channels...)	11:25
tsmithe	oh yea...	11:26
tsmithe	i didn't realise i'd mentioned it :P	11:26
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tsmithe	but yea - i had it and it went well :)	11:26
crimsun	excellent	11:26
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tsmithe	and now i have nicely creased trousers and shiny shoes, and short(er) hair. so i can go flying, which makes me glad	11:26
tsmithe	night all :)	11:26
sistpoty	gn8 tsmithe	11:27
tsmithe	:)	11:27
=== sistpoty will cut his hair after thesis
tsmithe	well, i wished they'd let me keep it long	11:28
tsmithe	i mean, they let the girls fly	11:28
LaserJock	hmm	11:29
LaserJock	I thought that synaptic and apt-get installed recommends by default	11:30
sistpoty	that's what I thought as well	11:30
Burgwork	it does	11:30
LaserJock	it doesn't for me	11:30
crimsun	fresh install of feisty? dist-upgrade?	11:30
LaserJock	dist-upgrades	11:31
LaserJock	I thought Edgy did it too	11:31
LaserJock	but I could have dist-upgraded starting from Dapper	11:31
LaserJock	I don't quite remember	11:31
crimsun	I only see: apt.conf.d/01ubuntu:9: Install-Recommends-Section "metapackages";	11:32
crimsun	this is a fresh install of feisty	11:32
crimsun	pre-Herd 4(ish)	11:32
LaserJock	ohhh	11:33
LaserJock	I've got that too	11:33
LaserJock	so maybe they switched it at some point	11:34
=== ajmitch spots eugenia asking for newer software
sistpoty	oh, how many acks from uvf do i need for a new exception btw?	11:35
ajmitch	2 & it should be confirmed	11:35
=== ajmitch accepts beer
sistpoty	cool, I've got 2 already :)	11:36
ajmitch	is it confirmed?	11:36
=== sistpoty looks
Fujitsu	ajmitch: Where?	11:36
sistpoty	lol, I can't connect to lp atm	11:36
Fujitsu	sistpoty: Others say similar.	11:37
crimsun	sistpoty: meaning supertux* ?	11:37
sistpoty	crimsun: yep	11:37
crimsun	yeah, at least one of those ACKs is mine	11:37
=== ajmitch checks email
sistpoty	the 2nd is from siretart, at least I got a mail today	11:37
ajmitch	yep	11:37
ajmitch	should be fine	11:37
ajmitch	Fujitsu: sorry?	11:38
sistpoty	thx	11:38
Fujitsu	ajmitch: The request for new stuff.	11:38
ajmitch	Fujitsu: newer	11:38
Fujitsu	Soooo many bugs reported by Eugenia lately.	11:38
ajmitch	bug 94503	11:38
ajmitch	mplayer-plugin	11:38
=== ajmitch wonders who killed LP
=== sistpoty didn't type in funny urls before lp died
crimsun	sistpoty: yep, Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:40:29 -0000 (11:40 EDT)	11:39
shawarma	ajmitch: planet is gone, too.	11:39
crimsun	if beagle would index my evolution inboxes, that would be fantastic	11:39
crimsun	I'd have gmail on a stick	11:40
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ajmitch	shawarma: OMG NO!	11:41
ajmitch	that's the most important part	11:41
LaserJock	I want my PONIES!	11:42
=== shawarma is reading old planet.u.c stuff from his cache just to feed his addiction.
crimsun	whet	11:42
crimsun	err, whew. I still have http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/i-want-a-pony.jpg cached.	11:42
LaserJock	thank goodness	11:42
sistpoty	lol, same here g	11:42
LaserJock	maybe I we should do backups to tiber or something	11:43
LaserJock	;-)	11:43
sistpoty	backup of ponies?	11:43
shawarma	It's back up!	11:43
shawarma	Phew..	11:43
sistpoty	argl... it ate siretart's ack! bug #94417	11:44
Ubugtu	Malone bug 94417 in supertux-stable "UVF-exception: supertux-stable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94417	11:44
=== LaserJock quickly reloads planet so he's got the latest copy if everything goes down again
sistpoty	hehe	11:44
ajmitch	sistpoty: that's the comment duplicate culling	11:45
ajmitch	hence why I don't just put in a +1 anymore	11:45
sistpoty	ajmitch: nice... I guess I'll file a bug	11:46
crimsun	hmm, that's neat	11:46
=== ajmitch thinks it's already filed somewhere
ajmitch	you should check though	11:46
=== sistpoty checks
ajmitch	we've had the problem before, was told about killing off duplicates in #lp	11:46
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Fujitsu	It is filed somewhere.	11:48
Burgwork	ajmitch: ping	11:49
Fujitsu	Bug #88531, it is.	11:49
Ubugtu	Malone bug 88531 in malone "Comment shown in activity log but missing from bug page" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88531	11:49
sistpoty	thx Fujitsu	11:50
ajmitch	Burgwork: pong	11:50
Burgwork	ajmitch: zope with python 2.5	11:51
Burgwork	the fedora people are having an issue. How did you solve it for Feisty?	11:51
Fujitsu	Burgwork: Use Python 2.4	11:52
ajmitch	Depends: python2.4 (>= 2.4.2), lsb-base, libc6 (>= 2.5-0ubuntu1), debconf \| debconf-2.0	11:53
ajmitch	zope2.9 requires python 2.4	11:53
ajmitch	it has not been tested or approved for use with 2.5, there are a number of subtle changes in 2.5	11:54
Burgwork	right	12:02
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Burgwork	ajmitch: thanks	12:04
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