=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html === Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Adri2000 at Mon Mar 12 19:15:54 2007 [05:44] (LaserJock/#ubuntu-motu) hmm, I didn't know dget wasn't in Dapper [05:45] I thought it had been around forever === janm [n=jmalonzo@ppp4592.dsl.pacific.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch returns [06:02] oi oi [06:03] anyone with a feisty system and nmap handy? [06:03] nmap's sequence prediciton seems to think everything is '0: a joke' [06:04] maybe it's my network [06:04] sudo nmap non_local_host -vv -O -sV [06:05] jdong: what's up? [06:06] jdong: There's a bug on that. [06:07] Targetted for beta, I think, or was at some point. [06:07] Fujitsu: oh cool [06:07] Bug #91004 [06:07] Malone bug 91004 in nmap "nmap wrongly reports host is blocking ping probes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91004 [06:07] nixternal: you're alive!!! [06:08] Or is that your bug? [06:08] no, my bug is different [06:08] LaserJock: am I? [06:08] and I doubt it's even a bug [06:08] It is generally broken, so could be the same thing. [06:08] I took my daughter back home on Sunday and came back early tonight [06:08] Fujitsu: it actually works fine for me on everything [06:08] except it seems to false think TCP sequence prediction is always 0'es [06:08] Hm, how strange. [06:08] it might be my network though [06:08] because localhost detection works as expected === sharp5 [n=steve@bas15-toronto12-1168013963.dsl.bell.ca] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [06:09] but any host on the network, no. === jdong nmaps his default gw, against his better judgement :D [06:12] ok disregard [06:12] seems like once I hop out of 18.x.x.x-space TCP sequence prediction stops working [06:12] network issue. [06:12] or "feature" :) [06:13] hello all [06:13] :) [06:15] nixternal: I've got some .desktop stuff for edubuntu-docs sitting in my svn working copy. Did you get anywhere? [06:19] racarr: Ooooh, what does tomboy want ARGB for? I likes me some C# :) [06:20] RAOF: Err, I don't know if they WANT ARGB [06:20] but I want ARGB :p [06:20] and err, the editor widget for the note window [06:21] They obviously want ARGB. Everyone wants to make their windows annoyingly transparent! === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:22] jdong: you certainly arent being personally ignored. you tend to pick the projects that deal with X and such though, and most MOTU's will go "if i dont understand vaguely what i'm uploading, i shouldnt upload it" [06:23] Mm, I disagree, proper use of ARGB is great [06:23] as long as text is always opaque, heh [06:24] Hobbsee: slight lag there? :) [06:24] LaserJock: didn't have a chance, been afk for the better part of a few days [06:24] ajmitch: i'm still reading. [06:24] nixternal: np, just wondered, I had it all there anyway [06:25] does it work? [06:25] well, I haven't actually tested it [06:25] c [06:25] ugh [06:25] there it is [06:25] :-) [06:25] heh === nixternal waits for the svn commit message [06:25] nixternal: I'd have to patch gnome-panel to truely test it [06:25] ahh, well that stinks [06:26] nixternal: but the .desktop and installation are trivial [06:26] nixternal: the only thing I'm unsure of is how it gets translated [06:26] you know, if you guys did the smart thing and based Edubuntu on KDE/Kubuntu this would be a super easy fix ;p [06:26] LaserJock: you have to manually upload it I believe [06:27] I actually found a spot on LP today where you can upload for translation, but I am willing to bet I will never find it again [06:28] nixternal: :p [06:28] nixternal: well, I'll have to talk to seb128 [06:28] I mean half of the apps installed are KDE-edu [06:28] so? :-) [06:29] everyone must be sleeping, because the flames are null [06:29] Hobbsee: yeah, I do pick bastard projects and crack to work on ... :) [06:29] that will change too in the future [06:29] what, that flames? [06:29] jdong: sounds about right :P [06:29] Hobbsee: meh someone's got to :) [06:29] nixternal: but I think Edubuntu was started before Kubuntu really got going, and they guys that started it where gnome-inclined [06:29] true. but you think someone's going to upload crack they dont understand? [06:30] nixternal: no, being dominated by KDE-Edu. With the 2nd CD we are puttin on a lot of other stuff [06:30] nice [06:30] Hobbsee: no, I don't, but I'd at times appreciate a "Hey jdong, I looked over this and have no idea WTF to do, sorry, no can do" [06:30] KDE-edu team is working hard on some new stuff from the looks of KDE SVN [06:30] Hobbsee: it makes me feel a bit better than just complete silence [06:30] jdong: silence is that. [06:31] Hobbsee: silence is either that, or an unnoticed item [06:31] jdong: then you might want to relearn what silence actually is in such a project... [06:31] true [06:31] nixternal: yeah, at least one of them will be in Seville [06:31] cool [06:31] Hobbsee: and at first, xserver-xgl was the unnoticed category, since I subscribed a team incorrectly :) [06:31] but you can guess that things on u-u-s that goes to a fair few people, things arent usually unnoticed [06:31] jdong: that never helps [06:31] I can't make Seville, but depending on how school goes, Akademy might be up for grabs [06:31] "here little buggy....come out of the woodwork little buggy...." [06:32] Hobbsee: I'm sorry, it was confusing, I'm used to doing it one way with -archive and motu-uvf worked completely differently :) [06:32] my fault [06:32] I shouldn't assume :) [06:32] Hobbsee: you want some bugs? I can subscribe ya to some :) [06:32] nixternal: no thanks... [06:32] jdong: true. it coudl all be better documented === wringer [i=wringer@tmp00e018e291d1.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:33] maybe early next release cycle, when the doco people arent writing release notes or something. [06:33] Hobbsee: I don't mean to be overly critical and complaining about everything around here; overall I am extremely satisfied... I just tend to come across as a total jerk to you guys :) [06:34] not a *total" jerk ;-) === need411 [n=shitbird@24-151-228-128.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:34] LaserJock: only like 95%? :D === Seiya[workwork] [n=Seiya@host197.patientkeeper.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:35] well, I just get a tad testy some days [06:35] I think everyone does [06:35] I look at my u-u-s email backlog [06:35] and everyone needs to in order to not completely lose sanity [06:35] I see how ineffective we are [06:35] heh [06:36] talk about ineffective..I feel like that every day [06:36] but we do try our best [06:36] LaserJock: nah you guys aren't ineffective === Ademan_ [n=dan@h-68-167-204-197.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:36] LaserJock: you're making the best outta what you are given. [06:36] and going even beyond that === lotusleaf [n=drywind@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:36] I hope so [06:36] but far too much falls through the cracks [06:36] jdong: thanks. certain people dont appear to undersatnd that though. [06:36] I really believe so, despite how I come across [06:36] as evidenced by the number of SRUs [06:37] I'm just frustrated that we can't seem to do better [06:38] and that's I suppose what got me so riled up with Mark's comments [06:38] I think most of us know darn well we need to do a better job [06:38] LaserJock: and that we cant, in a lot of cases [06:38] but we don't have the time and resources to do a lot about it [06:39] LaserJock: well, I think in this case, MOTU (we, if I may include myself in the general group) is doing the best with what we resources we have, but we have to admit we fall short, and need to do something about it. [06:39] sure [06:39] and sabdfl is the man with the power/insight to do that kinda stuff [06:40] that's sort of what aggravated me about it [06:40] but someone needs to supply a solution, as opposed to just saying "it doesnt work" [06:40] I think the "explosion" in here was due to everyone being a bit defensive and taking the criticism personally [06:40] *I* don't need to be told what the problems are [06:40] Hobbsee: agreeing that it isn't working is the first step [06:40] I'd rather see some resource commitments [06:40] it did seem like potshots were being taken against the MOTU. [06:40] and some solutions (that were reasonable) [06:40] LaserJock: but vapourware is such fun! [06:40] Hobbsee: in the discussion there seemed to be a lot of opposition when Mark said that it wasn't workiing. [06:41] well, I was personally offended by the comments about us scaring off beryl people [06:41] as I do spend a fair amount of time helping people in here [06:41] and I did try to help them out [06:42] the general "upstreams should be able to upload" stuff wasn't a big deal [06:42] I disagree, but it wasn't a big deal [06:42] LaserJock: A part of Marks' point was that in Beryl's case, just helping them out here was not sufficient. That MOTU should've taken steps to check what's up and why there seems to be silence for a period of time... [06:42] jdong: true. we know that. see discussion above [06:42] chasing down every interested upstream would be pointless [06:43] and it seems like a more hopeless use of our already limited resources [06:43] jdong: in MOTU terms, projects with licencing issues fall to the bottom, as we cnat do a thing about them, after we've told them that they're a showstopper problem to them entering ubuntu. [06:43] exactly. [06:43] IMO, we shouldn't be chasing people up. That takes valuable time. [06:44] Someone could have sent an email to the beryl ML, popped in to IRC and said something quickly, or something though, because Quinn seemed to be the only one who knew about most of the problems [06:44] however, we need to be open enough that they can come in adn actually get things done - ie, not be too busy to point them out [06:44] well there's certainly a slippery slope with that [06:44] I mean, for me personally, if they can't care enough to fix licensing issue, I'm not sure what we were supposed to do [06:44] and ... didn't seem motivated to do anything about it urgently [06:44] racarr: i did that. multiple times. @ the licencing, and quinn didnt really care. [06:44] racarr: sure, we could try & exhaust all avenues of communication with anyone [06:44] racarr: but I see that as a beryl internal communication issue [06:44] just trying to get someone in the project to care is hard enough [06:44] and when I came in and ASKED about licensing issues I was told it was just the Cg shaders thing, which was more or less FUD from a few people...disenamored with Beryl [06:44] I wasn't totally informed about this thoughout the process, but it seems like Quinn didn't totally understand the significance of the licensing issues [06:45] jdong: +1 [06:45] well, there should have been a record of why the package was rejected [06:45] and in communication breakdowns, both sides have every right to say it's the other party's fault [06:46] but for the sake of the package, someone take a step to reach across the lines :) [06:46] well, I don't think the MOTU did anything wrong, I really can't see it [06:46] jdong: Again, when I came in to #ubuntu-motu and asked I was told the problem was something which was most certainly a non issue [06:46] so I TRIED [06:46] racarr: the issues with IRC is... you never know if you get the right group of people answering your question.... [06:46] LaserJock: probably only not give the upstream people enough information, and made them look for it [06:46] not trying to fault the MOTUs here, there were issues with communications both ways [06:46] which is kinda hard, when you dont know the system. [06:46] racarr: not blaming you or anything, but you probably asked at a time when nobody REALLY deeply knowledgeable about the issue was around [06:47] but it shouldn't have even involved the MOTUs [06:47] i mean, we dont have the resources to spoonfeed either - but we probably do need to handle it a bit better [06:47] jdong: Quite possible [06:47] developers will hear things from others about the issue [06:47] and requote it [06:47] or slightly varied versions of it [06:47] well, exactly. that's an archive admin issue - but we cant put more pressure onto them either, really [06:47] there would have been a reject email [06:47] and sooner or later, yeah, it does turn into a different story than original. [06:47] the MOTU aren't really responsible for the rejection [06:47] so I don't know why we'd be at fault [06:48] we uploaded the package [06:48] LaserJock: it's not MOTU's _fault_ but it should've been an act of kindness by some MOTU to relay that information forward [06:48] I told interested people that it was rejected for some licensing issue [06:48] jdong: it should have gone to them automatically [06:48] and AFAIK the only one to get the rejection notice is the uploader... [06:48] <_MMA_> Hobbsee: IMO beryl needed to have someone delegated to make sure it made it into Feisty. They were very gung-ho at UDS then it all seemed to fall away. [06:48] LaserJock: agreed [06:48] the packager should have gotten it [06:48] and not via MOTU [06:48] so that's really a case of the archive admins not being detailed neough in exactly what was wrong, detailed in somewhere apart from irc. [06:49] LaserJock: I think the whole process of tracking packaging of new packages shoudl be more formalized in Launchpad. [06:49] which upstream can look at, take away, fix, and resubmit [06:49] _MMA_: true. but there are priorities, and volunteers often have different priorities [06:49] _MMA_: and until you pay a person, you cant actaully change their priority by force. [06:49] jdong: That was done in an email a couple of days ago. [06:49] It's all in LP now. [06:49] I aggree with jdong here. Once things hit the NEW queue, it's not obvious what's happening. [06:49] but if you want your package in Ubuntu you gotta put some effor in [06:50] Fujitsu: that's good to hear [06:50] RAOF: very true. that's something to be discussed with an archive admin though - not here === RAOF looks at gnome-compiz-manager sadly [06:50] RAOF: sure, but people follow up all the time [06:50] well, can be discussed here, but i'ts useless, as we're not the archive admins === need411 [n=shitbird@24-151-228-128.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [06:50] :) [06:50] _MMA_: We just don't have the resources to be honest, and were under the impression that several MOTUs were working on it [06:50] RAOF: yeah, and it's even more "oooh magic black box of mystery" to a non-MOTU. [06:50] <_MMA_> Hobbsee: I think since Mark made it a "priority" to get them to UDS things could have went better. [06:50] and would have it packaged by UVF [06:51] and no one had told us (though apparently some people told Quinn) otherwise [06:51] so [06:51] <_MMA_> racarr: Sometimes all it takes is communication. A presence in the channel. [06:51] agian, not saying you did anything wrong, just saying why the issue fell through on Beryls side [06:51] _MMA_: that's UDS. there's nothing that says "you come to UDS and you agree to do x, y, z" [06:51] _MMA_: You are of the opinion that we should have done more because of what Mark said? [06:51] _MMA_: of course it all could have been done better. but there's work, and such like. === Fujitsu looks at some stats. [06:51] Hobbsee: no, but it's odd that people were all excited and fell to the ground at the last minute [06:52] I just find it weird that all was going well [06:52] LaserJock: in response to your criticism of me not becoming MOTU despite given many opportunities, if I believed that I could manage all I do, my personal sanity, and being MOTU, I would do so without hesitation. Becoming MOTU is certainly high on my list of goals here at Ubuntu. [06:52] we though beryl was definately going to beat compiz in [06:52] <_MMA_> Hobbsee: True. I just take opportunities like that to mean a little more. :) [06:52] <_MMA_> Fujitsu: MOTU? No. [06:52] LaserJock: true that. [06:53] jdong: it wouldn't be hard, just send an email application, it doesn't mean more work for you [06:53] _MMA_: like a commitment from the ubuntu side to do the work, even if that's an expectation that volunteers are needed to do it? [06:53] _MMA_: people didnt get invited to UDS *just* for beryl, btw. [06:53] LaserJock: applications are done via e-mail now? [06:53] jdong: yep [06:53] cool [06:53] jdong: yes, MOTU Council === jdong goes on wiki [06:53] jdong: evaluated by the MC [06:53] <_MMA_> Hobbsee: Quinstorm didnt? [06:53] do you guys think I should send one in now? [06:53] yes [06:53] like would I have a chance? === davromaniak [n=cyril@AFontenayssB-152-1-80-189.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:54] _MMA_: i meant from MOTU. [06:54] jdong: shesh, you've had a chance for over a year now [06:54] _MMA_: if your point is that quinn should have submitted those packages, you need to take that up with quinn [06:54] "Just Do It" [06:54] jdong: you need to have people willing to sponsor you, if LaserJock is willing, then CC him on the application [06:54] jdong: do you feel that you are ready? [06:54] LaserJock: the tech board didn't think so on two occasions, which has been one of the reasons I haven't tried more [06:55] Hobbsee: no, his point was that people got all excited because they were at the UDS, but then when all is said and done the packages didn't make it [06:55] jdong: what, apart from your backport work, do you have to show to the MC? [06:55] ajmitch: I feel pretty confident in my general packaging abilities and more than comfortable to ask before doing something I'm less confident with... [06:55] ajmitch: I've not done any major new packages, but I have fixed bugs, etc in various packages [06:55] <_MMA_> Hobbsee: No my point is the responsibility should have been on the beryl project to seek help and communicate their needs with Ubuntu after UDS. [06:55] usually ones that are overlooked and time consuming [06:55] jdong: you were very close, I was there, you just needed to do a few more MOTUish things to get some experience there === ajmitch isn't trying to discourage at all, just trying to make sure you include enough info in the application to the MC [06:55] ajmitch: I totally understand [06:56] _MMA_: oh, of course. unfortunately, we're not them, and we're trying to look at where our processes need fixing :) [06:56] eg listing things you've worked on, people who've reviewed & sponsored you [06:56] ajmitch: is there anything MOTU-ish at this stage of Feisty that I can still do to boost my chances? [06:56] jdong: fixing bugs :) [06:56] ajmitch: I want to make a strong application this time, and waste as little time of others as possible [06:56] ajmitch: hehe I'll get on that :) [06:56] Hobbsee: I think one of the biggest things would be for Mark to clearly state what if he wants something prioritized === lotusleaf [n=drywind@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has left #ubuntu-motu ["trombone"] [06:57] LaserJock: -if, presumably. and to allocate resources to it [06:57] jdong: bribes to MC members wouldn't hurt either [06:57] lol [06:57] Hobbsee: not even allocate [06:57] ajmitch: I'm sure another xserver-xgl snapshot wouldn't be a bribe! [06:57] lol [06:57] LaserJock: well, instead of magic wand waving [06:57] jdong: you're quite right [06:57] Hobbsee: if he had just emailed -motu and said "heh, make sure beryl makes it in" we would have been more on otp of it [06:58] true, ish [06:58] I assumed since compiz was in main that he wasn't prioritizing on beryl [06:58] well, folks, it's 2:00AM and time for me to sleep [06:58] enjoy [06:58] cya jdong [06:58] night jdong [06:58] and I shall embark on my path towards MOTU-dom :) [06:58] please do [06:58] I will. [06:58] "MOTU want YOU!" [06:58] +s [06:58] I love Ubuntu and I love the MOTU :) [06:58] LaserJock: Actually, me too. I thought that the "one tool for one purpose" would exclude Beryl from ubuntu-desktop === Hobbsee would like to see both jdong and racarr as MOTU's, at some point [06:59] so we were in a situation where it looked like compiz was going to be the one for Feisty [06:59] not when sabdfl wants it in :) === Hobbsee think they'd both do a good thing. [06:59] er, s/a good thing/ good things/ [06:59] nobody had gotten back to us on the licensing issue === RAOF thinks they do the same thing. [06:59] which we can't fix for them [07:00] we've discussed this [07:00] that's the last that I heard until sabdfl came in to give everyone a shake up [07:00] i think we more need to figure otu what to do for an upstream that has their licences in tact. [07:00] It's worth noting that as far as I can tell I think Mark wanted Beryl in main rather than Compiz (I mean, he created the spec as "Beryl by default") [07:00] ajmitch: Same. [07:00] Err, RAOF: ^ [07:00] ie, nothing barring the lack of packaging, from it entering ubuntu. [07:00] racarr: I just thought that was Beryl's astounding PR coming through :P [07:01] racarr: Since the actual discussion was all Beryl/Compiz. [07:01] racarr: But then that was deferred... That made me (and probably others) think it was unlikely to be a high priority. [07:01] racarr: for sure, that was our impression too [07:01] which is why it's puzziling that we are getting to this only now [07:02] I saw beryl as a main package [07:02] Fujitsu: That's what Beryl felt as well after it was deferred, so we didn't put much effort at all into ubuntu related things (i.e. we can work on something else that's more generic), then Compiz went in to main and we were all kind of shocked [07:02] I figured Mark would have one of the Canonical guys working on it [07:02] racarr: we were somewhat shocked about compiz suddenly going to main [07:02] Fujitsu: deferred in most people's minds seem to mean "will have neither in main for feisty" [07:02] Hobbsee: that is logical [07:02] exactly [07:02] ajmitch: Yes, that was very very very shocking for us [07:03] LaserJock: Yep, I thought that a Mark-requested high-priority feature would get Canonical input. [07:03] racarr: why? [07:03] ajmitch: Just because of what we had heard from Mark, etc (wanting Beryl), the spec being deferred [07:03] Fujitsu: i think it was supposed to. of coruse, the fact that he wanted dholbach to work on it with the beryl guys was odd - isnt there a major lot of gnome going thru recently? [07:03] and comments along the lines of "Beryl doesn't support gconf" (I wrote beryls gconf stuff, it does support gconf and integration with about 100 metacity gconf keys :p) [07:03] and bugfixing in gnome? [07:03] while mark wanted beryl, there were plenty of others that would prefer compiz [07:04] Hobbsee: you mean all of 2.18 landing? [07:04] yeah [07:05] ajmitch: Fair enough, I meant more it was shocking that either one went in to main [07:05] ajmitch: Than that Compiz went in to main [07:05] but if anything went in to main we expected it to be Beryl === philwyett [n=philwyet@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:08] <_MMA_> To me though that should have raised a eyebrow and made someone from Beryl at least start asking questions. [07:09] I was surprised that no-one from beryl seemed to be doing Universe packages, at all. Now I know why, it makes more sense. [07:09] me too [07:09] Still, if I was following Beryl, I would've prodded the packagers in the same way that I prodded Gandalfn :) [07:10] _MMA_: I did ask questions, and didn't really get an ything interesting said, heh [07:10] RAOF: Beryl doesn't HAVE packagers [07:10] Yes it does. Trevino at least is a packager [07:10] RAOF: lupine_85 and Pricechild maintain the repositories, but the packages are not maintained anymore === roico [n=roico@bzq-88-153-47-101.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:10] ... THE Trevino? [07:10] Of absolutely crasy sources.list fame? === Hobbsee doesnt trust trevino [07:10] The same :) [07:10] <_MMA_> lol === Fujitsu hyperventilates [07:11] yep, the one and the same [07:11] he'd never get MOTUship, just for that packaging list, i'm sure. [07:11] <_MMA_> I think he does SVN builds. [07:11] I cannot trust somebody who did something like that, unfortunately. [07:11] RAOF: Mm, he doesn't really talk to anyone, or show up, or do anything, and he hasn't seemed to update the packages in forever, etc [07:11] that's even more scary than bloody yada. [07:11] racarr: So what goes in to ubuntu.beryl.org? [07:11] ?! [07:11] am i missing something - what is this crazy sources.list that trevino put up? [07:11] RAOF: Those were made a long time ago, and aren't really changed much anymore [07:11] superm1: It would download the internet. *All* of it. [07:12] lol [07:12] racarr: but surely there should have been an email on the beryl devel list that had the reject info [07:12] superm1: Like, 40 different random repos. [07:12] racarr: and somebody was assigned to look into [07:12] At least. [07:12] it [07:12] superm1: it's probably googlable - it's a shocker [07:12] LaserJock: Was someone from Beryl given the reject info to make a post? [07:12] superm1: imagine a sources list ~ 100 lines long [07:12] racarr: they should have yes [07:13] racarr: I suppose this is what happens when your build system has a make-deb script. [07:13] superm1: http://3v1n0.tuxfamily.org/blog/lista-repository-sourceslist-ottimizzata-per-ubuntu-kubuntu-linux/ === Hobbsee clicks...and dies [07:13] LaserJock: Well, as far as I know, no one was === Fujitsu washes out his mouth. [07:13] dude my repository is on there! [07:13] lol [07:13] <_MMA_> racarr: So who does the packages at: "deb http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org feisty main" As a Beryl and Feisty user these were the packages I thought were in prep to go into Ubuntu. [07:14] One of the people who maintains a repository on that list put in a fake ubuntu-artwork or something. === Hobbsee shudders...it seems to get longer every time i see it! [07:14] superm1: so are a lot of them. mine never was [07:14] Hobbsee: It does, actually. [07:14] RAOF: a skull, telling them how bad repos were [07:14] _MMA_: Well, the packages in Ubuntu now are heavily evolved versions of those packages [07:14] Indeed. [07:14] _MMA_: But again, no one really "does" those packages [07:14] _MMA_: A few MOTUs helped us set them up a long time ago [07:14] so they blasted the guy that did it, saying that that wasnt nice, instead of actually noticing what he was on about [07:14] Many people complained at how evil and malicious the person who put the skull up was. [07:14] _MMA_: And um...nothing really happens to them anymore === ajmitch tried helping with beryl packaging at one point [07:14] And said he should be banned from the community... [07:15] it's his right to put up whatever he likes, really... [07:15] into his own personal repo [07:15] It is. [07:16] And I think it was a very good idea to do it. === RAOF wonders whether his repo is on the trevino list... [07:16] <_MMA_> racarr: I thought they were slow to update because it was a more "stable" branch. :) [07:16] indeed. i said he should, when he asked in here :P [07:16] that's an absurd sources.list [07:16] Hobbsee: As did I :P [07:16] Ooh, so it is :) [07:16] racarr: Yeah. [07:16] _MMA_: No, they still get updated with the latest releases but it just means copying the debian/ from the old release [07:16] _MMA_: To the new release [07:16] <_MMA_> ahh... [07:17] racarr: But you have a *huge* community. You couldn't spring for a packager? [07:17] <_MMA_> Hell, Ubuntu Studio found some. :) [07:17] RAOF: Mm, no one has shown an interest, and our community of people who actually participate in Beryl is smaller than it looks === ajmitch should get involved in some ubuntu studio stuff or something :) [07:17] racarr: Point them at !packagingguide and let them loose :) [07:18] racarr: we are happy to help, as I think you've seen over the past few days, but generally people have to come here first [07:18] Again, our community of people who actually participate in Beryl just isn't really large enough [07:18] unfortunately this thing just didn't go down right [07:19] LaserJock: Yes, I've seen that, and obviously appreciate it [07:19] and I honestly don't know that we culd have done much better [07:19] The MOTU community seems depressingly small at the moment... It seems that ~40 people have uploaded more than 20 packages in Feisty. Of those, about half are mainly core-dev. [07:19] racarr: Maybe you could add a thread to "Announcements" to the effect that Beryl packaging is up for grabs [07:19] racarr: s / large/technical === ajmitch probably isn't in that 40 [07:19] Fujitsu: wow, even more than I thought :-) === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:19] RAOF: Eh, I have it now so it's good [07:20] Fujitsu: how do those numbers work out? as in, only 40 have uploaded more than 20? [07:20] Hobbsee: What I meant was the community of technical people who participate in Beryl isn't really large enough [07:20] Hobbsee: Approximately, yes. [07:20] racarr: gotcha. yep [07:20] LaserJock: Some of those aren't MOTUs, but still. [07:20] Fujitsu: nasty. [07:20] yes, some wouldnt be MOTUs. 20 is a tiny number over 4 or 5 months... [07:20] racarr: well, you could recruit from here too [07:21] ... geser has uploaded like 400 packages. [07:21] There must be at least some members of the Beryl community who can't code and who want to help. [07:21] <_MMA_> racarr: Send a shout out to the Ubuntu Fourms or Beryl forums. Im sure you could "grow your own" MOTU. Its what we had to do. [07:21] Fujitsu: wow [07:21] RAOF: Compiz logistics are slightly different as more or less one person is paid to maintain/work on 54k lines of code, and anyone else who wants to be involved largely works on auxillary things, packaging, etc [07:21] RAOF: At least from my observation [07:22] We have about 165k lines of code to maintain and about the same sized development/people involved community [07:22] We have 16000 packages, and 20 people. I think that's better. [07:23] ;-) [07:24] _MMA_: Maybe, but lupine and I probably have it under control now === Fujitsu heads off to TAFE. See you all in 40 minutes. [07:25] Hobbsee: you were brave, rejecting one of eugenia's bugs [07:25] <_MMA_> racarr: Not to push, and I mean it in the most honest way but what changed? [07:25] <_MMA_> Why couldnt have this been done sooner? [07:26] _MMA_: Packaging just really isn't something I have a super interest in, and no one had brought it to my awareness that there were any problems, and when I spend time working on packaging I get to spend less time working on code, so it just hadn't been something I had looked at before [07:27] but recent events have pretty clearly highlighted that no one was doing anything with it, and it has to be done, so I'm willing to work on it now [07:27] Basically what changed was communication [07:27] <_MMA_> I see. [07:27] _MMA_: ubuntu studio going well? [07:27] got much new stuff in for feisty? [07:27] <_MMA_> ajmitch: Yeah. [07:27] ajmitch: i did what now? === Hobbsee doesnt look at who reported it in most cases - just whta the content was [07:28] <_MMA_> We got our metas in. We did Murrine. [07:28] Hobbsee: rejected a bug on gparted by eugenia [07:28] heh [07:28]