[02:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94611 in launchpad "sprint regsitration error on entering dates" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94611
[02:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94618 in malone "Tag listings are getting out of control (non-scalable)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94618
[02:34] <beuno> hello, I want to host a bzr repo in launchpad for my LoCos website, and I'm not too sure how...
[02:35] <spiv> beuno: have you seen the "Hosted branches" section of https://code.launchpad.net/ ?
[02:35] <beuno> spiv: nope, checking it out now, thanks
[02:36] <spiv> See also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr#head-fd40db97c8b35fa189a0e2e3f6c79a2322637426
[02:36] <beuno> spiv: so just a simple push does it?
[02:43] <thumper> beuno: providing you have your public ssh key registered with launchpad
[02:44] <beuno> thumper: do I have to register a "product" too?
[02:44] <thumper> beuno: if it is a new product, then yes
[02:44] <thumper> beuno: or if it isn't really a product
[02:44] <thumper> you can put it under +junk
[02:45] <thumper> which is a person branch not attached to a product
[02:45] <thumper> s/person/personal/
[02:47] <beuno> hmmm, a product requieres a "project"
[02:50] <thumper> beuno: no a project is optional for a product
[02:50] <beuno> aaah, great, thanks
[02:51] <beuno> it says it right there, it's just very *grey*  :p
[03:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94629 in malone "Javascript column sorting utterly broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94629
[04:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94644 in launchpad "[beta]  Impossible to find way to approve members from main page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94644
[04:54] <beuno> is it possible launchpad has a delay in showing newly uploaded branches?
[04:58] <radix> it is in fact true
[04:58] <radix> it should be very small, like a few minutes
[04:58] <beuno> that explains a lot
[04:58] <beuno> radix: is there a reason for that?
[04:58] <radix> beuno: porn
[04:58] <radix> beuno: the bzr branches are mirrored in a process that doesn't allow just arbitrary filed to be copied over; only bzr branches
[04:58] <radix> s/filed/files/
[04:58] <jml> it should be < 2minutes
[04:58] <beuno> it seems it's been 15 or so now
[04:58] <beuno> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~uluga/ubuntu-ar-website/branch
[04:58] <radix> then there may be another problem.
[04:58] <radix> jml: hooray
[04:58] <jml> beuno: I see a branch with one revision
[04:58] <beuno> jml: yes, but, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~uluga/ubuntu-ar-website/branch/
[04:58] <beuno> is empty
[04:59] <radix> empty?
[04:59] <radix> you mean, you don't see anything with your browser? :)
[04:59] <beuno> no it isn't  :(
[04:59] <beuno> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~uluga/ubuntu-ar-website/branch/.bzr/ is fine
[04:59] <beuno> heh
[04:59] <radix> yes :-)
[04:59] <beuno> now, if someone does a pull from that, we will only get the .bzr dir?
[05:00] <radix> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~uluga/ubuntu-ar-website/branch/ is a bzr branch
[05:00] <radix> they can pull it and they will get a branch
[05:00] <beuno> so they'd have to do a checkout to get all the files?
[05:00] <jml> beuno: correct.
[05:00] <beuno> :D
[05:00] <radix> they would have to do a branch or a checkout or whatever
[05:00] <beuno> I'm getting the hang of this
[05:01] <lifeless> codebrowse!
[05:01] <radix> lifeless: hooraaay
[05:01] <jml> lifeless: doesn't quite work for me
[05:01] <radix> lifeless: I noticed that that's accessible now, really exciting
[05:01] <radix> (although maybe only on beta?)
[05:01] <jml> radix: only on beta. 
[05:01] <jml> radix: there are still a few teething problems.
[05:02] <lifeless> only _via_ beta
[05:02] <radix> right :)
[05:02] <radix> hooray obscurity
[05:02] <jml> lifeless: accurate prepositions are from the weak
[05:03] <radix> let's get rid of prepositions and replace them with keyword arguments to verbs
[05:03] <radix> and make verbs more like functions, of course
[05:03] <jml> err... 'for the weak'
[05:03] <radix> heh
[05:03] <jamesh> function your verbs?
[05:06] <beuno> I don't quite understand the difference between a branch and a repository
[05:07] <lifeless> pointer and content
[05:07] <beuno> I use bzr at work, and everyone has a "repository" and we pull and push around
[05:07] <lifeless> its slang, its good enough, but really you are pushing and pulling from branches.
[05:08] <beuno> but when I pull from a repo, I get all the files, not the .bzr
[05:08] <beuno> that's the part I'm missing  :D
[05:09] <radix> beuno: you *also* have a .bzr. branch and repository bookkeeping data is always stored inside a .bzr.
[05:09] <jml> beuno: there are actually _three_ things: branch, repository and working tree.
[05:09] <jml> (bzr experts will correct me if I'm wrong, I hope)
[05:10] <beuno> is there anywhere you can point me that explains the differences?
[05:10] <lifeless> http://bazaar-vcs.org/Classes
[05:12] <beuno> and the working tree will only be on the users side
[05:12] <lifeless> right
[05:12] <jml> and presumably on codebrowse.
[05:12] <beuno> can you generate a working tree from a repo+branch pulled from launchpad?
[05:12] <lifeless> jml: no working tree there
[05:13] <jml> lifeless: oh
[05:13] <jml> beuno: sure.
[05:13] <beuno> and what magic speel would that be with jml?
[05:13] <lifeless> beuno: trivially, in fact doing 'bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad...' will give you a tree + branch + repo by default
[05:13] <beuno> spell
[05:14] <beuno> huh, so users should use branch instead of checkout?
[05:14] <lifeless> not at all
[05:14] <lifeless> checkout also gives you a tree, local branch and repo
[05:14] <lifeless> but the local branch is configured to maintain synchronisation with the launchpad branch
[05:15] <lifeless> the branch command is used to make a new 'line of development'
[05:15] <beuno> ah, yes, I've noticed whe doing a checkout, commits push the changes
[05:15] <lifeless> the checkout command is used to make a new tree to work on an existing 'line of development'
[05:16] <beuno> once I pull a branch, I can modify it, and push it back, right?
[05:16] <beuno> feel free to ignore me when I've taken up too much of your time  :D
[05:16] <lifeless> sure you can
[05:17] <lifeless> theres another channel btw, #bzr, which is full of bzr experts :)
[05:17] <beuno> I'll move it there, just one last question
[05:18] <beuno> is there some place where this is documented?
[05:18] <beuno> I mean as in "launchpad" orientated way
[05:18] <lifeless> well
[05:18] <beuno> I understand bzr is well documented
[05:18] <lifeless> I dont know what you mean, using launchpad in this context is no different than bzr without it
[05:18] <beuno> because maybe I should take advantage of my learning curve and cook up a "how to" on the wiki
[05:19] <beuno> well, a bit more straight forward, like "I want to use Launchpad to host my project, how can I do that?"
[05:20] <lifeless> I think that is, yes.
[05:20] <lifeless> but I'm not sure
[05:22] <jml> beuno: there's some documentation available on code.beta.launchpad.net
[05:23] <jml> beuno: I'd be interested to know if that would have answered some of your questions.
[05:23] <beuno> jml, I get:  Page not found
[05:23] <beuno> Theres no page with this address in Launchpad. 
[05:24] <beuno> for: https://code.beta.launchpad.net/+tour
[05:24] <jml> beuno: yeah, that's not good. 
[05:24] <jml> beuno: but I meant the help bar on the left-hand side.
[05:24] <beuno> aaaah, didn't even click it since it's empty *almost* everywhere else
[05:26] <beuno> jml: that's basically what's in: https://code.launchpad.net/    right?
[05:26] <beuno> because I started there
[05:26] <beuno> so I guess that would be a "no"
[05:26] <beuno> I was thinking of a more specific aproach
[05:26] <jml> beuno: I don't know, actually.
[05:27] <jml> (whether it's the same)
[05:27] <beuno> for example, I had to create a project first, which wasn't entirely clear
[05:28] <beuno> and then it doesn't explain *how* each user should get the information to work with, which is what brought on all the "checkout, pull or branch" questions
[05:28] <beuno> when I wanted another user to do changes  :D
[05:29] <lifeless> theres stuff on help.lp too rught ?
[05:30] <jml> lifeless: I had a quick look. All I found was this: https://help.launchpad.net/BazaarLinks
[05:31] <jml> there's also a WIP tutorial.
[05:32] <beuno> I had something in mind that would include how to install bzr and tacle stuff like "install python-paramiko"
[05:32] <beuno> very very very basic
[05:33] <beuno> I'm not pushing more work on to you guys, I'm basically volunteering to try and get such a thing together
[05:34] <jml> beuno: I reckon that would be helpful.
[05:35] <jml> beuno: In any case, I've just filed a bug on launchpad so this doesn't get lost.
[05:36] <beuno> even better, bug#?
[05:36] <jml> beuno: bug 94653
[05:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 94653 in launchpad-bazaar ""Help" could be better oriented to newcomers to Launchpad and Bazaar" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94653
[05:36] <beuno> I can setup a page on the wiki and add a comment on the bug so everyone can pitch in
[05:36] <jml> beuno: thanks.
[05:37] <beuno> well, you've been holding my hand through the whole process for the last hour, it's the least I can do
[05:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94653 in launchpad-bazaar ""Help" could be better oriented to newcomers to Launchpad and Bazaar" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94653
[05:57] <beuno> jml, this is what I had in mind roughly:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Launchpad/BzrHowto
[05:58] <beuno> obviously it need cleaning up and a lot more information, but I wanted to lay the steps I had to go through down while they where still fresh
[05:59] <jml> *nod*
[05:59] <jml> beuno: I'm surprised you had to install paramiko
[05:59] <beuno> I didn't, the user I wanted to do work on the branch did
[06:01] <jml> beuno: ok, I'm surprised that *they* had to install paramiko :)
[06:02] <beuno> really?  I've had to install it in every pc I wanted to use bzr with
[06:03] <Fujitsu> The Ubuntu package depends on it, at least.
[06:04] <beuno> for edgy?
[06:04] <spiv> Older bzr packages used to merely suggest it, iirc, so maybe that's why there's some confusion.
[06:04] <jml> ahh
[06:05] <beuno> there ya go
[06:05] <jml> beuno: it might be worth noting which version you are using on your wiki page then :)
[06:05] <beuno> I'm on Feisty, but don't forget that it hasn't been released  :D
[06:06] <beuno> jml: I'll add it as "if your using edgy or older, you might need this"
[06:06] <spiv> According to Launchpad, the bzr package in edgy also depends on paramiko, not suggests.
[06:06] <Fujitsu> Edgy's version depends on it.
[06:06] <Fujitsu> Both LP and apt-cache on another machine show that.
[06:06] <beuno> :/  I'm not sure then, I'll give it a try at one of the PCs in the office that hasn't had bzr installed yet
[06:08] <beuno> the document is a *very* rough draft, I'll put some more work into it, and then I'm sure bzr and launchpad folks will have lots of things to change around
[06:08] <beuno> but for example, now, I can just send this out when I want someone to create or use a specific branch   :D
[06:10] <spiv> beuno: You don't cover adding SSH keys to launchpad.
[06:11] <beuno> I might have been avoiding that
[06:11] <spiv> beuno: I think maybe your howto could be added as "Quick start" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr?
[06:11] <spiv> There's a fair bit of overlap, your doc has the advantage of being much pithier, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr is a little more comprehensive.
[06:12] <beuno> spiv: absolutely, although I would like there to be a launchpad specific, so users don't have to try and wrap there head around *how* that applies to launchpad
[06:12] <spiv> I like the idea of having doc which starts by demonstrating how to use it, like yours basically does, rather than making you wade through pages and pages exposition before they can get started.
[06:13] <beuno> great, because I would loved having one!
[06:13] <spiv> The https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr page is almost entirely Launchpad specific already.
[06:13] <beuno> should it be?
[06:14] <beuno> spiv: that document has actually very useful bits
[06:14] <spiv> The author of the Bzr page didn't state their exact purpose, so I can't answer "should it be" very easily.
[06:16] <spiv> And the title/url of the page doesn't give much hint either.
[06:17] <spiv> I'd be tempted to combine the two pages, starting with your content as a quick start, and make Bzr redirect to Launchpad/BzrHowto
[06:17] <spiv> I'm not a regular wiki.ubuntu.com contributor, so maybe there are some policies that should be taken into account that I don't know about.
[06:18] <beuno> well, logic would indicate that /Bzr should be bzr specific
[06:19] <spiv> Well, I don't know what a /Bzr page should be other than a brief description and a link to bazaar-vcs.org
[06:19] <spiv> But I tend to have more strict tastes about wiki naming that the average wiki editor, I think :)
[06:20] <spiv> Actually,
[06:20] <spiv> The right place for these sorts of howtos in help.launchpad.net
[06:21] <beuno> yes, that was what I had in mind
[06:21] <beuno> I used the wiki because it's what I had handy and am used to
[06:21] <spiv> And where wiki.ubuntu.com is explain how to use bzr & launchpad to work on ubuntu stuff, it should link to the howtos on help.launchpad.net and maybe give some further examples with ubuntu-specific branches and whatnot.
[06:22] <spiv> beuno: Anyway, thanks for working on those docs.
[06:23] <beuno> np, glad to
[06:23] <beuno> I think it should also be linked or placed in: https://code.launchpad.net/
[06:23] <spiv> beuno: If you move them, could you send me an email (andrew at canonical.com) so I know where to find them?  I think they'll be handy for helping answer questions that pop up on this channel :)
[06:23] <beuno> or/and the help on beta
[06:23] <spiv> beuno: Agreed.  File a bug?
[06:24] <beuno> sure, I'll file it now
[06:24] <spiv> beuno: Thanks!
[06:24] <beuno> do you want me to leave it on the wiki or move it to help.ubunto (can I?)
[06:25] <spiv> beuno: You should be able to edit help.launchpad.net, I think.
[06:27] <beuno> spiv: great, I'll try and move it there, if succesful, I'll email you the new addy
[06:39] <beuno> that's it for me for today, night everyone
[07:01] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
[07:02] <LaserJock> hi mpt 
[08:04] <Fujitsu> Hm:
[08:04] <Fujitsu> `You have been subscribed to a public bug:'
[08:05] <Fujitsu> Better than `A new bug has been reported' or similar... But I was assigned, not subscribed. I don't get said message on subscription.
[08:25] <mpt> Fujitsu, did you get that notification from production, or beta?
[08:26] <mpt> I was going to say, that sounds like a symptom of bug 3797
[08:26] <Fujitsu> mpt: An email.
[08:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3797 in malone "Bug mails should explain why the person is getting emailed." [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3797 - Assigned to Christian Reis (kiko)
[08:26] <mpt> Fujitsu, yes, I know it was an e-mail message, that's not what I'm asking :-)
[08:26] <Fujitsu> As in, which was the action performed on?
[08:26] <mpt> ... but then I just saw that 3797 is apparently fixed
[08:26] <Fujitsu> Beta.
[08:26] <mpt> yes
[08:26] <mpt> darn
[08:27] <Fujitsu> I think there's another one about it saying a new bug had been reported.
[08:27] <Fujitsu> So it's probably not 3797.
[08:28] <LaserJock> well, 3797 isn't fixed is it?
[08:28] <LaserJock> I didn't think kiko had the changes to Beta yet
[08:28] <mpt> I'm looking at the changelog :-)
[08:29] <mpt> landed about 9.5 hours ago, I don't know whether that means it's on beta yet
[08:29] <mpt> but if that style of notification is one you'd never seen before, probably that means it is
[08:35] <jamesh> mpt: the bug mailer would be running from the production/1.80 branch
[08:35] <jamesh> mpt: so even if it had been fixed on head, you wouldn't see the difference
[08:36] <mpt> ok, thanks
[08:37] <mpt> so Fujitsu, hopefully kiko has fixed that problem :-)
[08:37] <Fujitsu> OK, thanks.
[08:42] <carlos_> morning
[08:44] <BjornT> mpt, Fujitsu: kiko's patch also included a fix for bug 54046, which is about the kind of e-mail Fujitsu got.
[08:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54046 in update-manager "View moved when selecting repository" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54046 - Assigned to Michael Vogt (mvo)
[08:44] <BjornT> those e-mails are sent from the beta servers, not from the production/1.80 branch.
[08:45] <BjornT> oh, not that bug..
[08:45] <BjornT> bug 51046
[08:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51046 in malone "The newbug-style email a new bug contact receives on product/package reassignment is confusing" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/51046 - Assigned to Christian Reis (kiko)
[08:55] <lifeless> jml: https://blueprints.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/productbased-branch-namespace
[08:59] <mpt> BjornT, ah, I thought those notifications always started with "Public/Private bug reported:"
[09:00] <mpt> BjornT, thanks for fixing bug 84847, it looks much better now :-)
[09:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84847 in malone "Application tabs missing on many bug report subsidiary pages" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84847 - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)
[09:02] <BjornT> mpt: they did, yes, but it's quite confusing to get such an e-mail just because you've become a subscriber of the bug.
[09:07] <mpt> BjornT, I know, today I got a message purportedly from Brad Bollenbach, and I thought "whoa" :-)
[09:09] <BjornT> yeah, i've also experienced that a few times :) using the bug reporter as the From address is probably not a good idea.
[09:21] <mdke> carlos: thanks for everything on the docs stuff
[09:21] <carlos> mdke: you are welcome
[09:22] <carlos> right now all templates and translations should be in place
[09:22] <carlos> mdke: and ubuntu-doc team is the owner of all those templates, so you should be able to upload updates directly using the web forms
[09:23] <mdke> carlos: fantasticf
[09:23] <mdke> -f
[12:33] <mpt> Good morning matsubara 
[12:33] <mpt> and salgado 
[12:33] <salgado> hey mpt!
[12:33] <matsubara> hello mpt, morning!
[01:04] <Hobbsee> 1400 utc.....that's 2 hours away, right?
[01:05] <Hobbsee> hi stub 
[01:05] <popey> Hobbsee: yes
[01:05] <Hobbsee> popey: cool
[01:06] <Hobbsee> hrm.  *has reason to believe that the @ubuntu.com and @kubuntu.org redirects are stuffed again*
[01:06] <popey> yes
[01:07] <popey> relaying denied
[01:07] <Hobbsee> dunno about  that - but they're certainly not refresing recently, to point to the new primary email in LP
[01:07] <popey> should they automatically?
[01:07] <Hobbsee> yes
[01:07] <popey> i never realised there even was @kubuntu.com
[01:07] <Hobbsee> they're supposed to sync across every once in a while
[01:07] <Hobbsee> it's kubuntu.org
[01:08] <popey>   alanpope@kubuntu.com
[01:08] <popey>     SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<alanpope@kubuntu.com>:
[01:08] <popey>     host fiordland.ubuntu.com [82.211.81.145] : 554 <alanpope@kubuntu.com>:
[01:08] <popey>     Relay access denied
[01:08] <popey> thats what I got
[01:08] <Hobbsee> it's kubuntu.org
[01:08] <popey> doh
[01:08] <popey> :)
[01:08] <popey> ahh, different error :)
[01:09] <Hobbsee> and then i'll leave the redirect alone, dammit!
[01:09] <mrevell> Hobbsee: hmph?
[01:09] <popey>     SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<alanpope@kubuntu.org>:
[01:09] <popey>     host fiordland.ubuntu.com [82.211.81.145] : 550 <alanpope@kubuntu.org>:
[01:09] <popey>     Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
[01:09] <popey> that mrevell 
[01:10] <lifeless> is what ?
[01:10] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i changed my primary address in LP a couple of weeks ago, and the @ubuntu.com + @kubuntu.org addresses *still* havent redirected
[01:10] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Have you raised a support ticket in the Answer Tracker?
[01:10] <cprov> good morning, guys.
[01:10] <mrevell> morning cprov
[01:10] <Hobbsee> mrevell: not yet.  havent had time.  wasnt sure if that was the right way to go
[01:11] <Hobbsee> mrevell: it also appears to be forwarding at least some mail to an old address that was primary on LP...
[01:11] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I think that will be the best way to notify the team that you have a problem.
[01:11] <Hobbsee> cool, ok
[01:11] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sorry you're having problems again :(
[01:11] <Hobbsee> yeah, me too :(
[01:11] <mrevell> popey: You're having trouble too?
[01:11] <Hobbsee> mrevell: it was a stupid error, really.
[01:11] <popey> mrevell: yes, but tbh i have never used my @kubuntu.org address, was just testing for Hobbsee 
[01:11] <mrevell> popey: ah right
[01:12] <mrevell> popey: If it's a problem, then I'd suggest a support ticket too.
[01:12] <popey> well first I should find out if this *should* work?
[01:12] <Hobbsee> do the non-kubuntu members even get a kubuntu email address?
[01:14] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Tbh I don't know. salgado would possibly know
[01:14] <salgado> how to file a ticket?
[01:15] <mrevell> Hobbsee: https://answers.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addticket
[01:15] <Hobbsee> okay, so i found where all the questions are for Launchpad easily enough...but where do i actually file a ticket, instead of answering them????
[01:15] <mrevell> salgado: Sorry, no. Do Ubuntu members automatically get a kubuntu.org email addr?
[01:15] <Hobbsee> oh, ask a question
[01:16] <popey> how would you know mrevell ?
[01:16] <Hobbsee> missed that when i first looked
[01:16] <popey> you dont know if i am a kubuntu or ubuntu user do you?
[01:16] <mrevell> popey: Eh?
[01:16] <mrevell> popey: member, not user
[01:16] <popey> so how would you know whether to give me an @ubuntu.com or @kubuntu.org
[01:16] <mrevell> popey: We know that :)
[01:16] <popey> yes, I am a member
[01:16] <Hobbsee> popey: yes.  you being in kubuntu members or nto.
[01:16] <popey> ahhh
[01:16] <popey> gotcha
[01:16] <mrevell> :)
[01:16] <Hobbsee> and i know, anyawy, as i havent approved you.  *g*
[01:17] <popey> o_O
[01:17] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:18] <Hobbsee> mvwow, so many open tickets...
[01:18] <Hobbsee> mrevell: wow, so many open tickets...
[01:19] <popey> Hobbsee: ahhh, my department :)
[01:19] <Hobbsee> popey: hmm?
[01:19] <popey> clearly not enough tho :S
[01:20] <mrevell> Hobbsee: 15 or so.
[01:20] <Hobbsee> thought there were more than that - unresovled ones, though
[01:20] <popey> 271 open ones in ubuntu
[01:23] <Hobbsee> filed.
[01:23] <Hobbsee> ahh
[01:23] <Fujitsu> popey: You're lucky. We have 24000 bugs, remember.
[01:23] <popey> heh
[01:23] <Hobbsee> mrevell: can i input early on the "what's the most annoying LP bug this week" if i dont get to stay till the meeting?
[01:23] <Hobbsee> as much as i'd like to...
[01:24] <mrevell> Hobbsee: The meeting is next Wednesday at 09:00 UTC. However, I'm always happy to get your feedback, whenever, whether there's a meeting or not :)
[01:25] <AlinuxOS> hello all, why gnome-orca translation is at first place? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+lang/ka
[01:25] <Hobbsee> mrevell: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/89183
[01:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89183 in launchpad "beta URLs don't redirect to production if person is not in beta team" [High,Confirmed]  
[01:25] <Hobbsee> oh bugger.  i cant read the difference between developer and user.  i suck.
[01:25] <AlinuxOS> danilos, hello!
[01:25] <danilos> AlinuxOS: hi
[01:25] <carlos> AlinuxOS: because I did a mistake
[01:25] <carlos> it's fixed now
[01:25] <carlos> ;-)
[01:25] <Hobbsee> mrevell: you know, you could poke someone to fix it in that time, and announce the fix at the user meeting... *g*
[01:25] <AlinuxOS> carlos, :D
[01:25] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, the team are aware of that one, and it comes up quite a bit. I'll mention it in today's developer meeting, just to let them know it's a still an issue.
[01:26] <AlinuxOS> danilos, got 1 minute ?
[01:26] <danilos> AlinuxOS: sure, go ahead
[01:26] <Hobbsee> mrevell: cool, thanks.  it keeps getting worse as more people are using the beta
[01:26] <Hobbsee> obviously
[01:27] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah. The quick answer is for those people to sign up to the beta too :) In fact, many people are signing up to the beta because they see the beta links and wonder what it's all about.
[01:27] <Hobbsee> mrevell: true that, but if you're going to do that, may as well get everyone to use the beta
[01:27] <Hobbsee> mrevell: the most common thing getting said about LP at the moment is about that they've got access denied - they think itj's to all of LP
[01:27] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Well, there are roughly 280 people using the beta atm and around 90,000 LP users.
[01:28] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Now, that's not good.
[01:28] <popey> 90000 *active* users?
[01:28] <mrevell> Hobbsee: We can fix that with a friendlier message .
[01:28] <mrevell> popey: Well, erm
[01:28] <popey> heh
[01:28] <mrevell> popey: I'm not sure how active, but last time I check there were 90,000 people registered. Some of whom will be ShipIt only, etc
[01:29] <Hobbsee> mrevell: true, but if you're going to go to that effort, you may as well just fix the problem, no?  depending on how hard it is to fix, of course
[01:29] <popey> i would suspect a lot are shipit only
[01:29] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Well, you've got it in one there - depends on how hard it is to fix :)
[01:29] <popey> given how many people I see with zero karma
[01:29] <mrevell> Hobbsee: It's easy, I imagine, to change the text
[01:29] <Hobbsee> mrevell: :) true that.
[01:29] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Making beta redirect to production would take a little longer
[01:29] <Hobbsee> popey: yes, but you do support tickets
[01:30] <Hobbsee> mrevell: indeed.
[01:30] <mrevell> popey: It would be interesting to have a stat on how many people have a certain level of karma.
[01:30] <Hobbsee> mrevell: but you have to invest that time eventually.  so it's evil both ways
[01:30] <mrevell> popey: I wonder, though, what level of karma would be good enough to show someone as active.
[01:30] <popey> mrevell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors  <-- get them to expand the stats on that page :)
[01:30] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Well, don't forget that 1.0 will be the default interface eventually.
[01:31] <Hobbsee> mrevell: as in, the original, or the beta?
[01:31] <Hobbsee> or 1.0 *is* the beta?
[01:31] <Fujitsu> 1.0 is approximately beta.
[01:31] <mrevell> Hobbsee: beta will become the default interface - yeah, the beta is the beta of 1.0
[01:31] <Fujitsu> beta = 1.0 beta.
[01:31] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[01:31] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[01:32] <mrevell> sorry for the confusion :)
[01:32] <Fujitsu> I really don't see why they'd be developing this new interface, only to replace it with the old one. :P
[01:32] <mrevell> I've got to get back to some other work in a moment, but how are you two finding th ebeta response times atm?
[01:32] <mrevell> Fujitsu: ha :)
[01:32] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: haha
[01:32] <oojah> Graphs of karma!
[01:32] <Hobbsee> um, bit better.  still over 10 seconds most of the time
[01:32] <Hobbsee> but it's not absolutely unusable
[01:33] <Hobbsee> like it was before
[01:33] <Fujitsu> mrevell: They're a little better... But I keep getting random requests returning nothing (not even headers).
[01:33] <mrevell> popey: what would you like to see, other than your face surrounded by adoring Ubuntu users?
[01:33] <Fujitsu> The blank responses are a little more frequent tonight.
[01:33] <popey> lol
[01:33] <Hobbsee> SteveA: was looking at logs about that, but hasnt gotten back to me yet
[01:33] <mrevell> Hobbsee: It's an ongoing process. There's a lot of work going on, behind the scenes, to get the response times up.
[01:33] <SteveA> Hobbsee: hi.  I have some experimental stuff that we can try out on the server, but I'm going to be too busy to spend time on it until Monday.
[01:34] <popey> mrevell: answers should be a LOT easier to find from the desktop
[01:34] <Hobbsee> SteveA: that's cool.  status updates are great, btw.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> mrevell: great :)  i'd figured there was, from lurking in here
[01:34] <SteveA> which status updates are great?
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: remind me to vote on saturday, will you?
[01:34] <mrevell> popey: You could raise a blueprint :)
[01:34] <Hobbsee> SteveA: as in, that you're working on it, and that you'd like to test it out in a few days
[01:35] <SteveA> ah, right
[01:35] <popey> mrevell: I have "learn how to write specs and blueprints" on my to do list
[01:35] <SteveA> status update: we're working on it and would like to test some stuff out next week ;-)
[01:35] <Hobbsee> SteveA: sounds good to me :P
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Wasn't the CC stuff going to be decided after MTV?
[01:35] <mrevell> popey: mate, they're really easy.
[01:35] <mrevell> popey: A man of your stature and knowledge...
[01:36] <popey> and lack of command of the english language :(
[01:36] <oojah> popey: Think of the karma it could bring though.
[01:36] <mrevell> popey: :) But you're Elvis, nothing else necessary.
[01:36] <popey> mmmmm
[01:36] <popey> karma
[01:36] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[01:36] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dunno.  but i'm *definetly* going to vote for it, with more attention than i do for the state election on saturday
[01:36] <Fujitsu> oojah: Nothing brings more karma than support requests.
[01:36] <oojah> Fujitsu: Fair enough.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Your vote might actually make a slight difference to how things go in Ubuntu, whereas in NSW it won't have chance... So that's a good policy.
[01:37] <mrevell> Right, I've got to shoot off. I'll catch you later.
[01:37] <popey> ttfn
[01:37] <Fujitsu> Bye mrevel.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> +l
[01:40] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hehe, true
[01:40] <Hobbsee> bye mrevell!
[01:54] <glatzor> hi carlos. could you raise the translation importance of python-apt?
[01:54] <carlos> glatzor: sure
[01:54] <glatzor> carlos: we moved some code from software-properties to python-apt.
[01:55] <glatzor> carlos: it contains e.g. the name of the Ubuntu components that are displayed in software-properties
[01:55] <glatzor> carlos: thanks a lot
[01:55] <carlos> should I do it just for Feisty?
[01:56] <carlos> hmm, there are no translations available... let me check if it's one of the pending templates...
[01:57] <carlos> ok, I see it as pending to be approved for Feisty
[01:59] <carlos> glatzor: done, it should appear later today
[01:59] <carlos> I gave it the same priority as update-manager
[01:59] <Kmos> http://www.shutdownday.org/
[01:59] <Kmos> lol
[02:00] <glatzor> carlos: cool.
[02:23] <ddaa> Hello here
[02:24] <mrevell> hello ddaa
[02:29] <Kmos> how reverted beta code? now there isn't first, previous, next and last in the bottom of the page
[02:29] <Kmos> in translation
[02:31] <glatzor> carlos: gnomebaker is translatable although it is part of universe
[02:31] <glatzor> https://translations.beta.launchpad.net/gnomebaker/main/+pots/gnomebaker/de/+translate
[02:32] <carlos> glatzor: that URL is not an Ubuntu one
[02:32] <glatzor> ah, I see
[02:33] <glatzor> sorry for bothering you. I am quite in a hurry, but perhaps I should pay more attention :)
[02:33] <barry> spiv: ping
[02:34] <carlos> glatzor: np
[02:41] <shawarma> Wasn't there talk about redirecting non-beta users to the normal lp if they tried to access a beta url?
[02:42] <Hobbsee> shawarma: i'ts a bug, yes.
[02:42] <Hobbsee> shawarma: it just ahsnt been fixed yet
[02:42] <shawarma> Clearly. :-)
[02:42] <shawarma> I just remember someone spoke about making it so.
[02:58] <glatzor> carlos: may I ask you a question concerning po file handling: how can I remove obsolete messages from the po files automatically?
[02:58] <glatzor> carlos: I moved the old translation from software-properties to my python-apt source repository
[02:59] <glatzor> and now there are plenty of old and obsolete messages in the po file
[02:59] <danilos> glatzor: msgattrib --no-obsolete
[03:00] <danilos> glatzor: though, if it's just a different branch, you want to let translators handle that themselves
[03:00] <SteveA> Welcome to the weekly Launchpad Development meeting!
[03:00] <SteveA> at the new time of 1400 UTC
[03:00] <danilos> salgado: you think he already set the new meeting time in his script? :)
[03:00] <SteveA> For the next 45 minutes, we'll be coordinating about Launchpad development activities.
[03:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94755 in blueprint "Clicking on star in blueprint subscribers lead to an oops" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94755
[03:00] <salgado> good point. maybe he forgot
[03:00] <SteveA> Who is here today?
[03:00] <mrevell> me
[03:00] <barry> here
[03:00] <flacoste> me
[03:00] <salgado> me
[03:00] <danilos> me
[03:00] <mpt> me
[03:00] <matsubara> me
[03:00] <Rinchen> here
[03:00] <statik> me
[03:00] <bigjools> me
[03:00] <ddaa> here
[03:00] <ddaa> thumper not here but ddaa is acting envoy
[03:00] <ddaa> jml not here but ddaa is acting envoy
[03:00] <cprov> me
[03:01] <bac> me
[03:01] <BjornT> me
[03:01] <kiko> me
[03:01] <SteveA> ddaa: and spiv?
[03:01] <stub> me
[03:01] <ddaa> SteveA: I have nothing from spiv.
[03:02] <ddaa> or it's in my junkbox...
[03:02] <ddaa> nah, nothing from spiv in the junkbox
[03:02] <SteveA> ddaa: part of the job of the envoy is getting status updates etc. from spiv
[03:02] <spiv> here
[03:02] <carlos> me
[03:02] <SteveA> hi spiv 
[03:02] <SteveA> ddaa: ... unless he's here ;-)
[03:02] <spiv> (surprisingly!)
[03:02] <ddaa> hu... I did not realise I was supposed to hunt spiv down for meeting notes...
[03:03] <SteveA> ddaa: I think the role of "envoy between bzr-launchpad and the rest of launchpad" should be an active one, not a passive one.
[03:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Bug report (mpt)
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[03:03] <SteveA> ----
[03:03] <SteveA>  * New code baseline for scripts (ddaa)
[03:03] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[03:03] <SteveA>  * Launchpad buzz report (mrevell)
[03:03] <SteveA>  * (other items)
[03:04] <SteveA> ----
[03:04] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[03:04] <SteveA> 
[03:04] <SteveA> next meeting: same time next week
[03:04] <SteveA> * Activity reports
[03:04] <SteveA> who is up to date, and who is not?
[03:04] <salgado> up to date
[03:04] <mrevell> me
[03:04] <mpt> up to date
[03:04] <bigjools> up to date
[03:04] <BjornT> up to date
[03:04] <barry> up to date
[03:04] <statik> up to date
[03:04] <carlos> I'm not :-(
[03:04] <matsubara> up to date
[03:04] <danilos> I am not
[03:04] <bac> up to date
[03:04] <flacoste> up to date
[03:04] <kiko> sent some, missed some
[03:04] <ddaa> up to date
 up to date
 up to date
[03:04] <spiv> not up to date
[03:04] <Rinchen> up to date via Steve and Kiko
[03:04] <stub> I have no idea...
[03:05] <cprov> sent some, missed some
[03:05] <stub> up to date (in 10 secs when I send mondays)
[03:06] <SteveA> thanks
[03:06] <sinzui> up to date
[03:06] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[03:06] <SteveA>  * E-mail to be sent describing agreed fix to the problem of unregistered subscribers to imported bug reports 
[03:06] <SteveA> this action is unattributed
[03:06] <kiko> I did not see that happen
[03:06] <SteveA> so I have no idea who was responsible for it
[03:06] <mpt> jamesh and BjornT, I think
[03:06] <SteveA> anyone remember?
[03:06] <BjornT> it was for jamesh
[03:06] <BjornT> and it hasn't been done
[03:07] <jamesh> I'm sending it right now
[03:07] <SteveA> thanks jamesh 
[03:08] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[03:08] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bug 94755
[03:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 94755 in blueprint "Clicking on star in blueprint subscribers lead to an oops" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94755
[03:08] <matsubara> I can take that one if no one wants it. :)
[03:08] <SteveA> when you click upon a star...
[03:08] <kiko> I clicked on it yesterday
[03:08] <bigjools> groan
[03:08] <SteveA> makes no difference who you are
[03:09] <mpt> Equal-opportunity oopses!
[03:09] <SteveA> is that all matsubara ?
[03:09] <matsubara> that's it then SteveA. The other issue I priv msg you and I'll follow up in the mailing list
[03:09] <SteveA> thanks
[03:09] <SteveA>  * Bug report (mpt)
[03:10] <mpt> There are 2216 known bugs in Launchpad without released fixes. The first eight of these, by importance, are:
[03:10] <mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko
[03:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30602 - Assigned to Christian Reis (kiko)
[03:10] <mpt> kiko, have you had time for any of the small improvements you talked about last week?
[03:10] <mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Need to support KDE like plural forms), Critical, Confirmed, danilos
[03:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46982 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[03:10] <kiko> not really.
[03:10] <kiko> sorry, 1.0 is upon us
[03:10] <danilos> mpt: no progress on 46982
[03:10] <carlos> mpt: #46982 is still blocked by me
[03:10] <mpt> danilos, you are still blocked on carlos?
[03:10] <mpt> ok
[03:10] <danilos> mpt: yes
[03:10] <mpt> kiko, fair enough
[03:10] <mpt>  * Bug #84326 (/+search, /products, /people, etc obscure search field and should have tabs), Critical, In Progress, mpt
[03:10] <mpt> I'm still working on this.
[03:10] <kiko> carlos, get going man
[03:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84326 in launchpad "/+search, /products, /people, etc obscure search field and should have tabs" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84326 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
[03:10] <mpt>  * Bug #86171 (private), Critical, In Progress, spiv
[03:11] <mpt> spiv, this bug report's gone a bit quiet in the past couple of weeks. Are you making progress?
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Bug 86171 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/86171 is private
[03:11] <mpt>  * Bug #90384 (private), Critical, Confirmed, jamesh
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Bug 90384 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/90384 is private
[03:11] <mpt> jamesh, you said you'd look at this bug this week. Did you have time?
[03:11] <jamesh> no, I didn't.
[03:11] <spiv> mpt: I haven't done anything on that since the last meeting :(
[03:12] <mpt> ok, consider yourself gently reminded ;-)
[03:12] <mpt>  * Bug #92484 (Support for Branch Format 6), Critical, In Progress, jml
[03:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92484 in launchpad-bazaar "Support for Branch Format 6" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92484 - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
[03:12] <mpt> jml, thanks for keeping the bug report up to date. Do you think you'll finish this in the coming week?
 Bug 92484: Support for Branch Format 6
 - Launchpad's bzr-related tests now pass w/ bzr 0.15rc2.
 - make importdcheck passes in my local working copy. It requires some changes to cscvs, which I've made, but not in a cscvs branch. Will do so tomorrow.
 - The cscvs tests don't pass w/ bzr 0.11 and still don't pass w/ bzr 0.15rc2
[03:12] <mpt> wow cool, canned responses to canned questions
[03:12] <mpt>  * Bug #44 (Translations should be searchable), High, Confirmed, danilos
[03:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44 in rosetta "Translations should be searchable" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[03:12] <mpt> thanks ddaa
[03:12] <mpt> danilos, is this still blocked on stub experimenting with the tsearch?
[03:13] <mpt>  * Bug #46 ("special symbols" when people copy-paste text from original to translation), High, In Progress, carlos
[03:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46 in rosetta ""special symbols" when people copy-paste text from original to translation" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[03:13] <mpt> carlos, converting old symbols seems like it should be a separate bug report, maybe with lower Importance. What do you think? How common are the symbols in the database now?
[03:13] <danilos> mpt: no, I haven't looked into it, I am not sure it should be blocked on stub at all
[03:13] <carlos> mpt: well, the problem is that we didn't cleanup the database once we prevented it to happen again
[03:13] <danilos> mpt: we may need to check with stub if 8.2 is here to stay first, though
[03:13] <stub> I imagine so unless somebody else wants to dig into ensuring unicode queries work for our install
[03:13] <carlos> mpt: and it's affecting Feisty language packs (because we copy from previous releases)
[03:14] <carlos> mpt: anyway, I have the script more or less done, I'm in testing phase
[03:14] <mpt> carlos, ok
[03:14] <carlos> mpt: It should be on review queue today
[03:14] <mpt> that's all, thanks SteveA 
[03:14] <mpt> thanks danilos 
[03:14] <SteveA> thank you mpt
[03:14] <SteveA> I have an announcement
[03:14] <SteveA> from Monday, we'll have a new member of the Rosetta development team
[03:14] <ddaa> Yay!
[03:14] <SteveA> he's not here today, but I want to let y'all know aobut it
[03:15] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[03:15] <danilos> cool, happy to hear that! :)
[03:15] <mpt> hooray!
[03:15] <barry> SteveA: any hint on who that is?
[03:15] <stub> Go team bangkok!
[03:15] <carlos> stub: you are not alone anymore! :-P
[03:15] <stub> barry: Read your all hands email :) Jeroen vanderwhatisname
[03:16] <stub> Production db crashed for the third time causing a short Launchpad outage. I need to do testing on Carbon to try and find the trigger so a bug report can be made.
[03:16] <stub> Staging is currently not being automatically updated. Tom is going to rebuild the staging environment as it is a) a good learning excersise and b) lets him determine best practice our installs should be following and c) it is our oldest live launchpad install and is thus the cruftiest.
[03:16] <stub> Nobody cares if edge lives or dies at the moment. But it is still running happily at the moment.
[03:16] <stub> One of betas app servers failed to start after log file rotation (most likely Launchpad was still shutting down when logrotate tried to restart it). I don't think anyone noticed but the admins who got the nagios alert.
[03:16] <stub> The hit graphs showed that Pound's load balancing does not do what we want though, as all the traffic that would normally go to the down was all sent to production #1 instead of evenly distributed over the three remaining live systems.
[03:16] <mpt> For a moment there I thought stub was joining the Rosetta team
[03:16] <barry> stub: +1 :)
[03:17] <carlos> mpt: ;-)
[03:17] <danilos> mpt: and you can be the new DBA :P
[03:17] <SteveA> Jeroen Vermeulen
[03:17] <stub> I don't think the PG crashes are frequent enough to warrent a downgrade, answering Carlos' earlier statement.
[03:17] <carlos> stub: s/carlos/danilo/
[03:17] <danilos> stub: ok, thanks
[03:17] <stub> All these europeans type the same
[03:18] <SteveA> stub: okay.  we should ask tom to investigate the new apache clustering for load balancing
[03:18] <carlos> stub: ;-)
[03:18] <SteveA> stub: would you ask tom if he can attend these meetings?
[03:18] <stub> ok
[03:18] <jamesh> stub: maybe we could trick pound by getting the two app server processes on each server to bind to different IP addresses?
[03:19] <SteveA> what about getting a database interruption to cause a Retry in the app servers
[03:19] <SteveA> we discussed that on the list a bit
[03:19] <jamesh> is that something we want for short term, medium term or long term?
[03:19] <SteveA> in the short term
[03:20] <SteveA> to avoid all the app servers failing at the same time
[03:20] <SteveA> and needing to be restarted manually
[03:20] <jamesh> okay.  Because it is the sort of thing that will need to be redone for the $NEW_ORM migration
[03:20] <SteveA> jamesh: can I give this to you, for discussion in our call with joey?
[03:20] <stub> jamesh: We no longer have any need to keep pound, so I'd rather not trick it to do anything. I want to replace it with apache anyway to remove one unnecessary variable in our install.
[03:21] <jamesh> stub: fair enough
[03:21] <jamesh> SteveA: okay
[03:21] <stub> SteveA: there is a bug open on getting launchpad to reconnect. Just needs prioritization and an assignee
[03:21] <SteveA> stub: is it up to date wrt recent discussion on the mailing list?
[03:21] <SteveA> what's the bug number?
[03:21] <jamesh> we need to handle both the session and main DB connections
[03:21] <SteveA> true
[03:22] <mpt> bug 31369, afaict
[03:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31369 in launchpad "Launchpad should handle database outages" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/31369 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[03:22] <stub> thanks mpt :)
[03:22] <SteveA> thanks for the production systems report stub
[03:22] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[03:22] <pbn> bug 77950
[03:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77950 in kvpnc "kvpnc crashes with SIGSEGV when trying to import a Cisco .pcf file" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77950
[03:23] <flacoste> AnswerTracker 1.0 Summary: nothing new to report. 
[03:23] <mpt> UI 1.0: Nothing major this week; some new graphics and bug fixes.
[03:23] <cprov> Soyuz 1.0: general bug fixing only
[03:23] <ddaa> Code 1.0: still broken link for "import your project" on the front page.
[03:23] <BjornT> Malone 1.0:
[03:23] <BjornT> malone-essential-docs: No progress since last week. bjornt still to send an e-mail to matthew r describing what information the different sections should contain in more detail.
[03:23] <danilos> Rosetta 1.0 weekly report: firefox import/export: no progress, oo import/exportnot started, essential docs not started, TranslationImportContinuityThreshold not started, UI stuff: bug 79674 (no progress), helptexts (in progress, https://launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaTemplatesThatNeedHelp)
[03:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79674 in rosetta "List translatable upstreams on separate page, sample on front page" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79674 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[03:24] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[03:25] <ddaa> moving on?
[03:25] <SteveA> I mailed elmo about the request for weblog software
[03:25] <SteveA> anything else?
[03:25] <matsubara> SteveA: I filed RT #27270; Some people reported that launchpad mails aren't reaching them, so I asked admins to take a look. No answers so far.
[03:25] <kiko> I did that too for one email
[03:25] <kiko> no answer back yet
[03:25] <jamesh> RT #27263
[03:26] <mpt> SteveA, the one about the brilliant server
[03:26] <jamesh> which is "Please redirect https://codebrowse.launchpad.net/ to http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/"
[03:26] <SteveA> mpt: thanks for the reminder.  I also emailed elmo about that.
[03:26] <mpt> thanks
[03:26] <SteveA> Rinchen: I'd like you to help out with chasing up these requests
[03:27] <Rinchen> roger that
[03:27] <SteveA> I'll talk with you about that after the meeting
[03:27] <SteveA>  * New code baseline for scripts (ddaa)
[03:27] <ddaa> Launchpad-bazaar has two new major features nearing landing: email notifications for branches, and automatic bug-branch linking. And also many small scripts improvements either landed or in the pipe.
[03:27] <ddaa> I am concerned that when we release 1.0, we release at the same time many code changes to the scripts which had not been used live.
[03:27] <ddaa> Since production has been frozen for so long, cherrypicking is becoming increasingly difficult.
[03:27] <ddaa> Since the database patch embargo is in effect, it should be possible to make a new baseline rollout for all the scripts without breaking production.
[03:27] <ddaa> Should we do it?
[03:27] <jamesh> yes.
[03:27] <SteveA> I think so.  And particularly if we can get the "monitoring table in the database for scripts" thing done.
[03:29] <stub> All the scripts or just the ones recently modified?
[03:29] <SteveA> so that we get an instant warning if something isn't working properly
[03:29] <ddaa> SteveA: that's a db patch embargo exception, a bit out of scope for this item. But I agree.
[03:29] <SteveA> at first, just ones recently modified.  although, the scripts do use other database code
[03:29] <jamesh> stub: well, it would be nice to know that they all work with a newer launchpad tree
[03:29] <SteveA> ddaa: I think it's a prerequisite to knowing whether there are problems with scripts
[03:29] <ddaa> stub: really, I just care about launchpad-bazaar stuff, but the same problem probably applies to all the rest.
[03:29] <jamesh> BjornT made some changes to the bug mail notification code that'd benefit from a newer codebase too
[03:29] <stub> It would be trivial for me to run the scripts out of the beta tree instead of the production tree - beta and production are on the same physical servers now
[03:29] <ddaa> SteveA: so... you mean we have this running for a while before 1.0 to assess our QoS?
[03:30] <kiko> stub, that's an interesting idea
[03:30] <ddaa> I'd rather not run scripts from head.
[03:30] <ddaa> makes me feel unsafe
[03:30] <SteveA> I don't want to run scripts from head either
[03:30] <SteveA> it changes too often
[03:31] <SteveA> and particularly without the decent "success reporting" stuff for scripts
[03:35] <ddaa> So, I'm glad everybody thinks a good idea.
[03:35] <ddaa> SteveA: who should keep the ball rolling?
[03:35] <ddaa> In particular regarding your request to get the script monitoring out soon?
[03:35] <SteveA> so, another thing to discuss in the joey-stevea-jamesh call
[03:35] <Rinchen> got it
[03:35] <stub> ok. So I should setup a fresh tree to run the scripts from that won't be automatically updated every three hours. Anyone want to nominate a revision, or should I just go with whatever HEAD happens to be?
[03:35] <SteveA> ddaa: next step is we find out whether we can get this "success reporting" stuff done very soon
[03:35] <SteveA> and then plan for shifting over to the tree stub just mentioned
[03:35] <SteveA> stub: HEAD is good
[03:35] <SteveA> thanks for bringing this up in the meeting, ddaa
[03:35] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[03:35] <mrevell> Yesterday's Launchpad users' meeting raised this issue:
[03:35] <mrevell> English is always implicitly set as a preferred language. This means that support contacts receive support notifications in English, even if they don't want them.
[03:35] <mrevell> mpt said that this could become more of a problem, as Ubuntu and other hosted projects become more popular, and suggested that it might discourage people from volunteering as support contacts.
[03:35] <mrevell> Bug 81369 is also regularly raised as an annoyance, and interestingly has encouraged some people to sign up for the beta. I think we should make the "access denied" message more explicit in telling people that they need to join the beta team or remove "beta" from the URL.
[03:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81369 in launchpad-answers "support contact in preferred languages only" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81369
[03:35] <flacoste> mrevell: that's the previous bug
[03:35] <mrevell> by "remove beta from the URL" I mean we should explain what they need to do to get the page they expected, but on production
[03:35] <mrevell> flacoste: apologies, yes.
[03:35] <mpt> Or make those URLs Just Work
[03:35] <popey> cant you just have a link on the login page to the same page minus the beta. bit?
[03:35] <mrevell> bug 89183
[03:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89183 in launchpad "beta URLs don't redirect to production if person is not in beta team" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89183
[03:35] <popey> " if you don't want to take part in the beta, click here to go to your regularly scheduled page" 
[03:35] <mrevell> mpt: That's the other option, of course, but I assumed we hadn't done it because of limited resource
[03:36] <mrevell> due to work on 1.0
[03:36] <mpt> I'm completely guessing here, but it doesn't seem like it would be much harder to set up a redirect than to add "here's how to hack URLs because we're too busy" text to the login page
[03:36] <jamesh> popey: that is an option.
[03:37] <popey> would require very little effort
[03:37] <mrevell> mpt: Fair enough. Obviously, that'd be my preferred option.
[03:37] <mpt> (except that I'd know how to do the latter but not the former)
[03:37] <SteveA> we should add a helpful redirection-to-main-site message to the beta login page
[03:37] <jamesh> mpt: adding a corrected link to the login page is relatively easy.  automatic redirection of non beta-testers is problematic
[03:37] <SteveA> mrevell: please ensure that the bug has that as the course of action that we should take
[03:40] <mrevell> SteveA: will do
[03:40] <SteveA> mrevell:  and together with Rinchen, see if someone wants to do it on FiF
[03:40] <mrevell> SteveA: Ok
[03:40] <SteveA>  * Launchpad buzz report (mrevell)
[03:40] <mrevell> The buzz and usage report will be on the launchpad mailing list later today.
[03:40] <mrevell> Apologies for the delay.
[03:40] <SteveA> ok, thanks
[03:40] <alex_muntada> what about bug 81369?
[03:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81369 in launchpad-answers "support contact in preferred languages only" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81369
[03:40] <mrevell> alex_muntada: I've raised it here to make sure the guys know it's an issue. We can then discuss it on the mailing list, as time is limited in this meeting.
[03:40] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[03:40] <mpt> DONE: Landed Brilliant fixes, fixed bugs, hacked page layout
[03:40] <mpt> TODO: finish page layout, tour
[03:40] <mpt> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <alex_muntada> mrevell: i see, thanks
[03:40] <danilos> DONE: ooo migration script, chat with Rinchen on status/wip, some looking into search stuff
[03:40] <danilos> TODO: ooo migration script, translation search, lots of bugfixing, licensing, helptexts
[03:40] <danilos> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <matsubara> DONE: checked oops reports, filed bugs, triage, support requests, fixed small bugs
[03:40] <matsubara> TODO: more of the same, wiki gardening, fix oops bugs.
[03:40] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <salgado> DONE: Shipit, fixed bug #2982 (which included some sqlobject hacking), code review, more structural-object-refactoring and some OpenID research
[03:40] <bac> DONE: design UI changes for file mgmt, convert BugMessageFormView to LPFormView
[03:40] <salgado> TODO: Finish with shipit stuff, land pending branches, code review and random fixes.
[03:40] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[03:40] <bac> TODO: prepare for london sprint, finish bug attachment work, file mgmt
[03:40] <bac> BLOCKED: No
[03:40] <mrevell> DONE: OneZero microsite, work towards public beta media activity, user meeting.
[03:40] <mrevell> TODO: User meeting, OneZero microsite, public beta media activity.
[03:40] <mrevell> BLOCKED: No
[03:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2982 in launchpad "A person's Bugs page should show all bugs they are involved with" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2982 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[03:40] <statik> DONE: working with customers, working on filedownloads, partial sprint agenda
[03:40] <statik> TODO: design audit table, post filedownload DB branch for review, more sprint preparations
[03:40] <statik> Blocked: no
[03:40] <flacoste> DONE: sprint, code reviews
[03:40] <flacoste> TODO: reviews, write spec, bug fixes
[03:40] <flacoste> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <Rinchen> Done: lots of process items, securing status for Steve & Kiko, and related such as my tidbits list of developer pain points. Thanks to everyone for helping.
[03:40] <BjornT> DONE: code reviews. various bug fixes. finished implemented InitialUbuntuCVETracking. landed a few reviewed branches.
[03:40] <Rinchen> Todo: Draft up RCA items for OOPS and send out for review. Chase RT requests. Barry and Bjorn have signed up for Fix-it-Friday. :-)
[03:40] <Rinchen> Blocked: nothing
[03:40] <barry> DONE: bug-42480 review, updated bug-90118 fix branch, lots of mm/lp spec'ing & importing, mbox mailer branch
[03:40] <barry> TODO: figure out source layout for mm in lp, work on db changes and xmlrpc for mm/lp
[03:40] <barry> BLOCKED: waiting for mbox mailer branch approval (blocks bug-90118 too)
[03:40] <BjornT> TODO: code reviews. land more reviewed branches. make it possible to file security bugs via the normal +filebug page. tag support for apport bugs.
[03:40] <SteveA> DONE: management, recruiting, ui code
[03:40] <SteveA> TODO: management, recruiting, ui code
[03:40] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <jamesh> DONE: code review, pending-reviews script tweaks, Silva bug import prep, answer bug-import review comments
[03:40] <jamesh> TODO: code review, script monitoring, bug 90384, bug import
[03:40] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <sinzui> DONE: Answer sprint
[03:40] <sinzui> TODO: Revise lp-bugs (65945, 75485, 76434) for PQM. Start lp-bug 34050 "Unable to retarget support request"
[03:40] <sinzui> BLOCKED: No
[03:40] <Ubugtu> Bug 90384 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/90384 is private
[03:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34050 in launchpad-answers "Unable to retarget support request" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/34050 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
[03:40] <bigjools> DONE: 33141, 39739 and 67014 fixed and landed.
[03:40] <bigjools> TODO: 56595 and 38129
[03:40] <bigjools> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <stub> TODO: OpenID, get Tom up to speed, maybe get Jeroen up to speed
[03:40] <stub> DONE: OpenID
[03:40] <stub> BLOCKED: No
[03:40] <carlos> DONE: Feisty imports, rosetta data cleanup, firefox imports, user support
[03:40] <carlos> TODO: Finish rosetta data cleanup, finish firefox imports and write a spec about the new POImport process discussed with danilo
[03:40] <carlos> BLOCKED: no
 DONE: reworked the projects with code page, finalised (hopefully) the  proprietary branch database patch, worked on the dbschema refactoring, merged rocketfuel into the branch email notification work and put it back up for  review.
[03:40] <kiko> DONE: fixes for malone bugs, reviews, catch up on email, 1.0 blockers
 TODO: more work on private branches and dbschema work, and of course FIF
 BLOCKED: no
 DONE: Improved error msgs for unscanned branches (FIF, bug 81542), more informative response for failed SFTP auth (bug 85392), updating LP to use bzr 0.15rc2 (bug 92484).
[03:40] <kiko> TODO: more of this, maybe an interview or two
[03:40] <kiko> BLOCKED: no
[03:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81542 in launchpad-bazaar "this branch was not scanned yet, or no revision were found on the last scan" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81542 - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
 TODO: Finish updating LP to use bzr 0.15rc2
[03:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85392 in launchpad-bazaar "better sftp server error reporting" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85392 - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
 BLOCKED: cscvs tests are failing w/ RF for me, so I can't reliably test upgrading bzr. Have spoken to ddaa about this, and been told that he will help me out.
[03:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92484 in launchpad-bazaar "Support for Branch Format 6" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92484 - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
[03:41] <ddaa> DONE: landed complete-revisions and branch-puller-oops (improvement), finished branch-puller-badurls and productseries-source (pending review), zeoraid import, packed python import branch.
[03:41] <ddaa> TODO: land pending branches, fix cscvs tests, clean up cvs.gnome.org imports, import roadmap discussion with stevea and sabdfl
[03:41] <ddaa> BLOCKED: supermirror test suite crashes for me, have told jml about it and he said he'll look at it.
[03:41] <spiv> DONE: reviews, bzr smart server
[03:41] <spiv> TODO: bzr smart server
[03:41] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[03:45] <cprov> DONE: customupload-consolidation, storing upload siginingkey, warty/hoary archive removal, helping Julian.
[03:45] <cprov> TODO: cherrypick stuff on drescher and dogfood PPA
[03:45] <cprov> BLOCKED: no
[03:45] <stub> barry: I think you can assume your branch will land so it shouldn't block you working on stuff that needs its features.
[03:45] <barry> stub: cool
[03:45] <SteveA> barry: who is the reviewer for your branch?
[03:45] <spiv> I am
[03:45] <spiv> I need to do a follow-up review on it.
[03:45] <SteveA> ok
[03:45] <Rinchen> ddaa, was JML planning on that bug for FiF?
[03:45] <ddaa> Rinchen: hu...
[03:45] <ddaa> I'm not tracking the FiF plans of jml and thumper
[03:45] <ddaa> should I?
[03:45] <SteveA> ddaa: no
[03:45] <Rinchen> no. I had not received anything from them but the paste indicated a FIF bug
[03:45] <Rinchen> I'll add that one to the "maybe" list :-) 
[03:45] <ddaa> I feel like we're just FiFing whatever comes up when the day comes...
[03:45] <ddaa> there's several fif-tagged bugs in launchpad-bazaar
[03:45] <SteveA> ok, that's all folks
[03:45] <SteveA> thanks for being here
[03:45] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[03:45] <ddaa> and sometimes we just do something else entirely because we think it's a good idea
[03:45] <kiko> thanks SteveA 
[03:45] <mrevell> Thanks all!
[03:45] <ddaa> Rinchen: note that branch-puller-badurls and productseries-source, I both did on FiF time.
[03:45] <alex_muntada> mrevell: thanks
[03:46] <Rinchen> ddaa, ok, I'll go back and add them to the historical list. Please keep me in the loop so I can track all of these for the management types. :-)
[03:46] <ddaa> actually no
[03:46] <mrevell> alex_muntada: No probs. I'll keep you informed.
[03:46] <alex_muntada> :)
[03:46] <ddaa> just productseries-source
[03:46] <ddaa> the branch-puller-badurl was finished on thursday
[03:47] <ddaa> the fix to productseries/+source was a left over from a previous FiF
[03:47] <ddaa> I think it was a leftover from hct-cleanup
[03:47] <Kmos> Why " first, previous, next and last " in the bottom of translation page disappear ?
[03:47] <ddaa> or maybe vcs-import-status...
[03:48] <Rinchen> ddaa, this one? [r=flacoste]  Branch-puller sets the oops URL to the canonical URL of the branch.
[03:48] <ddaa> Rinchen: that's the fix in my branch-puller-oops yes
[03:48] <Rinchen> I can't seem to find the productseries-source in my new list
[03:48] <ddaa> not FiF
[03:48] <ddaa> Rinchen: that one had no bug
[03:49] <ddaa> it just that the ugliness occured to me when doing some other work
[03:49] <Rinchen> ah, ok. Roughly when did you merge? I'll just do a quick tag.
[03:49] <ddaa> it's in review queue
[03:49] <Rinchen> "quick tag" = write it down quickly
[03:49] <Rinchen> ah! right. thanks.
[03:54] <Kmos> SteveA: next meeting? :)
[03:54] <SteveA> Kmos: same time next week, as announced at the start of this meeting
[03:55] <Kmos> :)
[03:55] <Kmos> SteveA & stub: thanks
[04:11] <sladen> hello people, I've filed bug #94784 as the quanity of beta.launchpad.net URLs in global circulation is getting inconvient.
[04:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 94784 in launchpad "URL clobbering: Redirect beta.lp.net/* -> lp.net/* if user not beta tester" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94784
[04:11] <salgado> sladen, that sounds like a dupe of bug 89183
[04:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89183 in launchpad "beta URLs don't redirect to production if person is not in beta team" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89183
[04:11] <sladen> bargin
[04:13] <sladen> dup'ed and pasted across
[04:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94785 in launchpad "Need to somehow cache the +countrymirrors-archive page" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94785
[04:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94784 in launchpad "URL clobbering: Redirect beta.lp.net/* -> lp.net/* if user not beta tester (dup-of: 89183)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94784
[04:27] <Lumiere> sladen: wouldn't it be easier to edit the wiki page to remove beta.?
[04:28] <sladen> Lumiere: I've already done that for a dozen links.  However keeping are going to continue with pasting in the contents of their browser URL bar, right?
[04:31] <sladen> Lumiere: cf. 'kludge' vs. 'solution'
[04:31] <mrevell> Lumiere: people are receiving beta links in Launchpad-generated emails too. So, it's something we're looking at and hope to fix ASAP.
[04:31] <mrevell> Rinchen: I've tagged bug 89183 for FiF, as Steve suggested.
[04:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89183 in launchpad "beta URLs don't redirect to production if person is not in beta team" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89183
[04:31] <Rinchen> mrevell, thanks
[04:37] <Lumiere> mrevell: ah
[05:04] <slacker_nl> hello
[05:04] <slacker_nl> small question - how is the karma calculated on launchpad?
[05:07] <Lumiere> slacker_nl: https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaCalculation
[05:08] <slacker_nl> Lumiere: thnx, could not find it in the FAQ
[05:10] <Lumiere> it's actually linked off the front page of launchpad atm
[05:11] <slacker_nl> ahhh, didn't look there
[05:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94808 in launchpad-answers "Pillars need a 'Latest questions asked' portlet" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94808
[05:29] <juliux> hi
[05:29] <juliux> it is possible to open a bug report against a team which has no product on launchpad ?
[05:32] <gnomefreak> juliux: what package?
[05:32] <juliux> gnomefreak, the team has no packages
[05:32] <gnomefreak> juliux: it has to do with the packages in repos not teams
[05:32] <gnomefreak> juliux: if its not supported by ubuntu you can not file a bug on it
[05:33] <juliux> gnomefreak, we have a team for events in germany and it would be cool if users can open a bug report against the team if something was not ok on the event where ubuntu was presented
[07:27] <kiko> juliux, no, bugs are not fileable against teams.
[07:27] <juliux> kiko, thanks
[07:30] <LaserJock> heh, that'd be funny
[07:30] <LaserJock> "team X doesn't work hard enough"
[07:37] <juliux> LaserJock, for teams who have no packages could it be a good thing
[07:38] <LaserJock> juliux: the bugs should go against a product?
[07:39] <juliux> LaserJock, i think a team which presents ubuntu on a expo has no real product;9
[07:39] <LaserJock> I don't think a team, by itself, could really have bugs
[07:40] <juliux> hmm
[07:40] <juliux> perhaps you are right, the team cann t have bugs
[07:41] <LaserJock> the team would work on something that had bugs
[07:43] <juliux> yes you are right
[09:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94884 in malone "you have chosen to open 37910 which is a BIN file" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94884
[09:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #94887 in launchpad-answers "'Also notified' should only include people who will really be notified" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94887