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Burgundavia | anybody alive? | 03:10 |
---|---|---|
=== tonyyarusso is, but don't take that too seriously | ||
Burgundavia | tonyyarusso: I have braindumped a bunch of stuff on the beta page | 03:12 |
tonyyarusso | Burgundavia: put a link in the topic | 03:12 |
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poningru | nixternal: ping | 06:29 |
poningru | take a look at feisty beta release page | 06:30 |
poningru | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FeistyFawn/Beta/ | 06:30 |
poningru | someone messed around with it I think | 06:30 |
poningru | I think they copied herd 4 ubuntu | 06:30 |
Admiral_Chicago | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FeistyFawn/Beta?action=diff | 06:35 |
=== poningru is confuzled | ||
poningru | whatever | 06:37 |
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poningru | GAAAAAh | 06:41 |
poningru | nixternal: did you see that? | 06:44 |
poningru | your's was better | 06:44 |
poningru | the other one seemed to be just herd 4 | 06:44 |
nixternal | what? | 06:44 |
nixternal | I missed something | 06:44 |
poningru | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FeistyFawn/Beta/ | 06:46 |
poningru | seem to be just herd 4 | 06:46 |
poningru | as opposed to your really cool one | 06:46 |
poningru | like the oem thing is gone | 06:46 |
nixternal | you guys quit stealing my mojo :) | 06:48 |
nixternal | knock them shadows down a bit | 06:48 |
nixternal | is that 8 8 15 80 | 06:48 |
nixternal | 2 2 4 50 is the best drop shadow, very clean and yet gives that floating appearance | 06:49 |
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Burgundavia | beuno: you around? | 08:00 |
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Burgundavia | ok, need somebody to finish up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Beta | 08:06 |
Burgundavia | I need to head to bed, otherwise I would do it | 08:06 |
rjian | hello Burgundavia | 08:06 |
Burgundavia | hey rjian, long time no see | 08:07 |
rjian | just around hehe creating articles hehe | 08:07 |
rjian | Burgundavia: u bz ? hehe | 08:08 |
MenZa | :o | 08:27 |
MenZa | Beta :o | 08:27 |
=== MenZa is intrigued. | ||
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mindspin | what is the email addy for the fridge team? | 11:49 |
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meatballhat | jenda: ping! | 03:25 |
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jenda | meatballhat: pong! | 03:27 |
meatballhat | jenda: isn't April 1st a Sunday?? | 03:27 |
jenda | yep | 03:27 |
meatballhat | :D https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings | 03:27 |
jenda | Yes... I know... | 03:28 |
jenda | aha | 03:28 |
jenda | right :) | 03:28 |
jenda | That's an April fool's joke, meatballhat ;) | 03:28 |
jenda | (fixed) | 03:28 |
meatballhat | then I fell for it ;-) | 03:29 |
meatballhat | Christina Armstrong has left Canonical??? whaa? | 03:29 |
jenda | yep | 03:31 |
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beuno | mornin' | 03:31 |
jenda | mornin' ;) | 03:32 |
beuno | I've just sent an email to the mailing list, but it looks like we're doing duplicate work: | 03:32 |
beuno | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Beta | 03:32 |
beuno | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyBetaAnnouncement | 03:32 |
beuno | and neither is finished for today, the beta release date :( | 03:32 |
meatballhat | <meatballhat> Christina Armstrong has left Canonical??? whaa? ... <jenda> yep .... and yet she's still responding to email with her canonical.com addy? ( /me = doesn't like ghosts and/or goblins) | 03:38 |
jenda | meatballhat: read her mail ;) | 03:38 |
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=== meatballhat removes foot from mouth :P | ||
meatballhat | jenda: you and your "reading" | 03:40 |
jenda | :) | 03:40 |
jenda | meatballhat: within a few years, it'll likely be my job. | 03:40 |
jenda | (to read) | 03:40 |
=== jenda gets to send out about 10 packs of CDs a day... | ||
meatballhat | jenda: that's my wife's dream job ... mine is to listen to music ... :P | 03:42 |
jenda | I must say I don't envy shipit... | 03:42 |
meatballhat | oh boy! | 03:42 |
jenda | hehe | 03:42 |
jenda | And what's worse - I pay for this from my own money ;) | 03:43 |
jenda | (although most people understood the concept of 'voluntary donation' quite well, so I should strike pretty close to even in the end) | 03:43 |
crimsun | what use is money if it's not spent on voluntary efforts? | 03:44 |
jenda | crimsun++ ;) | 03:57 |
meatballhat | +1 from /me, too :D | 04:03 |
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poningru | gaaah | 07:25 |
poningru | that armstrong person did not respond to like 20 of my emails | 07:25 |
poningru | and tony isnt here so I can bitch at him | 07:26 |
Burgwork | poningru: she is responding the mailing list | 07:28 |
Burgwork | and she has been very busy with the website fresh | 07:28 |
Burgwork | refresh | 07:28 |
poningru | WTH | 07:29 |
poningru | I thought matt was the only guy working on that | 07:29 |
poningru | Burgwork: I basically proposed what tony said, like a while ago and sent it like 20 times to jono, and christina | 07:30 |
poningru | I even wrote up a spec on it | 07:30 |
Burgwork | right | 07:30 |
poningru | but nope | 07:30 |
poningru | zero response from her | 07:30 |
Burgwork | let me raise it with her | 07:30 |
Burgwork | see what happened | 07:30 |
poningru | now I dont know who this new person is | 07:30 |
poningru | chris kenyon | 07:31 |
Burgwork | he is not new | 07:32 |
poningru | or never mind | 07:32 |
poningru | just got an email from armstrong | 07:32 |
Burgwork | excellent | 07:33 |
poningru | ah its about me asking her to attend the meeting | 07:33 |
poningru | and she basically saying no since she is leaving | 07:34 |
Burgwork | ahh | 07:34 |
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poningru | is chris kenyon at all in IRC? | 07:35 |
poningru | what is up with free software companies hiring people who do not want to work with community?? | 07:38 |
poningru | canonical, mofo all same | 07:38 |
=== poningru stabs his eyes out with a rusty knife | ||
adamant1988 | poningru: I'm sure they're busy. | 07:38 |
poningru | adamant1988: well then let me FRACKING HELP | 07:39 |
adamant1988 | You have to remember, they're not paid to do the stuff you and I do, they have added responsibilities. | 07:39 |
poningru | yeah then let me take some of those on | 07:39 |
poningru | instead of not responding to my emails, tell me how I can help | 07:39 |
adamant1988 | They'll do it when they can I'm sure; | 07:39 |
poningru | like I had to bitch and moan at matt for about a year before he let me start working on website | 07:40 |
poningru | and at mofo | 07:40 |
poningru | marketing SUCKS | 07:40 |
poningru | the girl who is there supposedly running the college campaign | 07:40 |
poningru | wont even respond to my emails regarding using freeculture | 07:40 |
adamant1988 | freeculture? | 07:41 |
poningru | freeculture.org | 07:41 |
poningru | its a international student organization | 07:41 |
poningru | about free software, CC, better intellectual property | 07:41 |
=== poningru is the cofounder of florida freeculture | ||
adamant1988 | Gee, I can't help but wonder why you would want to use it then. | 07:42 |
poningru | and we would love to help out in marketing of firefox on college campuses | 07:42 |
poningru | we are not asking for any fees or anything | 07:43 |
poningru | we just wanna help | 07:43 |
poningru | but ofcourse the lady does not respond to any of my emails | 07:43 |
adamant1988 | What do you know about the college demographic? | 07:43 |
poningru | I sent 2 and said frack this | 07:43 |
adamant1988 | Because I know if *I* was going to piggyback any services at all to get to them, I'd go through FaceBook,. | 07:43 |
poningru | apart from being one and actually doing tons of these kinds of campaigns? | 07:43 |
adamant1988 | poningru: And have you had any documented successes? | 07:44 |
poningru | ... | 07:44 |
poningru | defectivebydesign.org | 07:44 |
adamant1988 | Being a member of a demographic can make it nearly impossible to be objective when analyzing it. | 07:44 |
poningru | publicaccesstoresearch.org | 07:44 |
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poningru | trust me we have done tons of marketing campaigns | 07:44 |
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poningru | we did a crap load for cc back in the day | 07:45 |
poningru | why do you think fsf, pk, etc. all want to use us? | 07:45 |
adamant1988 | Do they want to, or did you just get them to? | 07:45 |
poningru | no they come to us | 07:45 |
poningru | in the case of defectivebydesign.org | 07:46 |
poningru | they came to us | 07:46 |
adamant1988 | uh huh, well, Defective by design looks like a rediculous scare tactic. | 07:46 |
=== poningru shakes head | ||
adamant1988 | Oh sorry, probably should have sugar coated that. | 07:46 |
poningru | yeah thats it dude | 07:47 |
adamant1988 | the defectivebydesign.org website is incredibly slanted and biased, I wouldn't trust it | 07:47 |
=== poningru is actually rofling right now | ||
poningru | its cool that you wanna try to knock me down or whatever dude... | 07:47 |
adamant1988 | Feel free to laugh, I'm being serious. | 07:47 |
poningru | but dont try to do that with established marketing campaigns | 07:48 |
adamant1988 | Yeah, established scare tactics. Awesome. | 07:48 |
poningru | but yeah you need some lessons in belittling someone too it seems | 07:48 |
adamant1988 | I'm not trying to. | 07:48 |
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poningru | uh... sure if you say so | 07:48 |
poningru | btw we should probably take this to non-ubuntu channel | 07:49 |
poningru | this is getting non-soc fast | 07:49 |
adamant1988 | I'm making a point, your organizations "campaign" services should not be utilized for the marketing team. | 07:49 |
poningru | hooray for not belittling someone | 07:49 |
poningru | like I said you need lessons in that | 07:49 |
adamant1988 | I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm a member of your "college demographic" too, and frankly none of these sites look like something I would trust or visit more than once. | 07:50 |
adamant1988 | Yes, highly effective. | 07:50 |
poningru | adamant1988: you are not understanding the campaign | 07:50 |
poningru | these websites are not meant to be entirely used for the convincing people to do anything | 07:51 |
adamant1988 | I'm even a member of *the* target audience, I'm an informed open-source advocate, and the dbd.org site looks like a rediculous attempt to slant my opinion | 07:51 |
poningru | its the physical talking that is the campaign | 07:51 |
poningru | also keep in mind we cant claim credit for the hazard suits awesomeness | 07:52 |
poningru | that was all fsf | 07:52 |
adamant1988 | Now, I like the letter to Steve Jobs and such, but I don't think it's effective. | 07:52 |
poningru | well duh... its not meant to be effective against steve jobs | 07:53 |
poningru | its meant to show the hypocrisy in what he is saying | 07:53 |
poningru | to other people | 07:53 |
adamant1988 | Ok, do you have traffic counts? | 07:53 |
=== MenZa throws a facebook at poningru | ||
adamant1988 | I want to see what kind of exposure the site gets. | 07:53 |
poningru | traffic counts? | 07:54 |
poningru | adamant1988: you still dont understand | 07:54 |
adamant1988 | If the physical talking is your campaign, then it wasn't smart to try to sway me with the url. | 07:54 |
poningru | that site is not meant to be a frontend for convincing people | 07:54 |
poningru | adamant1988: sure it was | 07:54 |
poningru | cause you are supposed to be a marketer | 07:55 |
poningru | a 'informed open-source advocate' | 07:55 |
poningru | s/a/an | 07:55 |
adamant1988 | Which I am, so if you're going to give me the URL and then tell me "Oh that doesn't matter" then what was the point? | 07:55 |
poningru | no it doesnt matter to the end-user who we are trying to reach | 07:56 |
poningru | that url matters to other marketers | 07:56 |
adamant1988 | I wouldn't use it. | 07:56 |
poningru | i...c | 07:56 |
adamant1988 | It's heavily biased, if I was going to use some kind of service for my material, I would pick an objective one. | 07:56 |
poningru | dude... | 07:57 |
poningru | objectivity in marketing? | 07:57 |
poningru | are you sure? | 07:57 |
adamant1988 | poningru: I'm a firm believe in data, I've had success with marketing tactics that don't require me to say something that's not true, or slant the evidence in my favor. | 07:57 |
adamant1988 | If I can't market something on it's own merits, it's not worth marketing. | 07:58 |
poningru | I never said any of those | 07:58 |
poningru | you just present all the good arguments of one side | 07:58 |
adamant1988 | Instead of preaching "DRM is Evil" you should be saying "This is why non-DRM is better" and be clear and concise as to why. | 07:59 |
poningru | uh... no dude | 07:59 |
poningru | thats not how you are supposed to be doing it | 07:59 |
poningru | while that should take up a small portion of your points | 07:59 |
poningru | it should not be the majority | 07:59 |
poningru | you are still thinking the build em and they will come philosophy | 08:00 |
adamant1988 | No, I'm thinking in the "I'd rather not slant my information" philosophy. | 08:00 |
poningru | no one is slanting any information | 08:00 |
adamant1988 | ... So you call presenting a one sided argument NOT slanting? | 08:01 |
poningru | what information is being 'slanted' | 08:01 |
adamant1988 | No you're right, there is absolutely NO bias there at all. | 08:01 |
poningru | ... | 08:01 |
poningru | read through my conversation | 08:02 |
poningru | I can just copy and paste my statements from above | 08:02 |
adamant1988 | I bet your "Physical conversations" are just as heavily biased. | 08:02 |
adamant1988 | If not more. | 08:02 |
adamant1988 | Have you bothered to watch any competitive adverts lately? | 08:02 |
poningru | explain | 08:03 |
poningru | if you are telling me that these competitive advertz dont have any bias and present 'information' | 08:03 |
poningru | but no go ahead | 08:03 |
poningru | explain to me your marketing idea then dude | 08:04 |
adamant1988 | They present accurate information, just look at ANY Red Hat adverts. | 08:04 |
poningru | you present all the information and let the user decide? | 08:04 |
adamant1988 | poningru: You present the information in the appropriate format, just don't slant it. | 08:04 |
beuno | I have to agree with poningru, marketing isn't about presenting the information and letting the users decide, that only works for a small fraction of users | 08:05 |
poningru | so you say things like 'linux doesnt have any desktop market share' | 08:05 |
=== beuno butts in | ||
poningru | ?? | 08:05 |
adamant1988 | poningru: Or you say "Linux has a rapidly growing market share" | 08:05 |
adamant1988 | Both are true. | 08:05 |
poningru | adamant1988: EXACTLY | 08:06 |
poningru | but thats slanting according to you | 08:06 |
poningru | and should not be done | 08:06 |
adamant1988 | No, slanting is not presenting the other side at all. | 08:06 |
poningru | WTF | 08:06 |
poningru | you didnt present the other side there | 08:06 |
poningru | you said it has a rapidly growing market share | 08:06 |
poningru | didnt say anything about current market share | 08:06 |
adamant1988 | If I was going to make an advert out of that, I would show the growth | 08:07 |
poningru | yes exactly | 08:07 |
poningru | you emphasis the growth, and take attention away from the fact that right now it doesnt have any | 08:07 |
adamant1988 | Ok, so I would show the growth, I would show a statistic in a form where it was readable/entertaining. But you don't lie about the competitors. | 08:08 |
poningru | and I guess I can see how some people see this as 'slant' but thats what marketing is | 08:08 |
adamant1988 | "DRM is evil!" | 08:08 |
adamant1988 | Ok, DRM is NOT evil, and saying so is a blatant attempt to bias me. | 08:08 |
poningru | adamant1988: how is that false? | 08:08 |
poningru | drm is evil | 08:09 |
adamant1988 | hardly, DRM is an anti-theft device on media to prevent unauthorized distribution according to the law. The fact that we disagree does not make it evil, it CAN make it unethical though. | 08:09 |
poningru | lol | 08:09 |
adamant1988 | I agree, DRM is unethical, but hardly Evil. | 08:10 |
adamant1988 | I don't think Satan himself has had a hand in it. | 08:10 |
poningru | evil == marketing speak for unethical | 08:10 |
adamant1988 | And *that* is what I'm talking about. | 08:10 |
poningru | brb | 08:11 |
poningru | what is '*that*'? | 08:12 |
poningru | sorry brb we have a person here to fix the dishwasher | 08:13 |
adamant1988 | Using a word substitute that warps what you're saying into a different beast. | 08:14 |
adamant1988 | "Unethical | 08:15 |
adamant1988 | Not ethical; not in accordance with the standards followed in a business or profession." | 08:15 |
adamant1988 | http://www.answers.com/Evil | 08:16 |
adamant1988 | The differences are pretty clear. Of course obviously there is some overlap since you like the FSF and probably agree with RMS on most of his points. | 08:18 |
poningru | no dude the difference is not that clear in an end user's view point | 08:30 |
poningru | sorry the guy just left | 08:30 |
poningru | anyway | 08:30 |
adamant1988 | Ask anyone what they associate with the word Evil, and I bet you you'll find the difference is even greater. | 08:30 |
poningru | adamant1988: the entire point of marketing is to show your product as really good | 08:31 |
poningru | without seeming ape-shit crazy | 08:31 |
adamant1988 | poningru: Then show your product as good without calling the otherone on things that aren't true. | 08:31 |
poningru | clearly RMS does not fullfill this criterion | 08:31 |
poningru | adamant1988: thats a given | 08:31 |
adamant1988 | "DRM is Evil" is blatantly opinionated. "DRM is a violation of your consumer rights" is a much more true statement. | 08:31 |
poningru | so you are saying you shouldnt have opinions in them? | 08:32 |
poningru | lol | 08:32 |
adamant1988 | Well, opinionated was the wrong word I suppose. | 08:32 |
adamant1988 | But I would keep opinions as far from it as possible. | 08:32 |
adamant1988 | But, I can understand why the FSF would utilize your services. | 08:33 |
poningru | so what kinda things shouldnt be in advertz? | 08:38 |
poningru | you already said slanting is ok | 08:38 |
poningru | and opinions are allowed | 08:38 |
poningru | so... | 08:38 |
poningru | what isnt allowed? | 08:38 |
poningru | blatantly lieing? we agree on that | 08:39 |
adamant1988 | I supposed the extremes of slanting and opinionated/biased advertisind? | 08:39 |
poningru | any sort of lying is wrong | 08:39 |
adamant1988 | advertising* | 08:39 |
poningru | so where do you draw the line? and why is your line the one that matters? | 08:39 |
adamant1988 | Calling something evil is a bit extreme, and probably not as effective as you would like it to be. | 08:40 |
poningru | actually dude its really effective I would say | 08:40 |
poningru | you just have to do it without making yourself seem complete ape-shit crazy | 08:40 |
adamant1988 | poningru: Do a little study for yourself, tell 10 people that DRM is evil, and tell the other 10 that it's a violation of their consumer rights. | 08:40 |
adamant1988 | I bet the latter is more effective. | 08:40 |
poningru | adamant1988: I would much rather tell them both | 08:41 |
poningru | adamant1988: you honestly dont think nixternal here is gonna go and tell someone "DRM IS EVIL" and just walk away do you? | 08:41 |
adamant1988 | I avoid using such extremes, and I've had good success locally educating people about DRM. | 08:41 |
nixternal | no, I am going to punch them in the face before I walk away :) | 08:41 |
poningru | lol | 08:42 |
beuno | finally some sense... | 08:42 |
adamant1988 | poningru: if your goal is to make them think DRM is evil, then you're going to keep pushing that idea. | 08:42 |
adamant1988 | By the time you're finished they'll think of the RIAA leadership as relatives of Hitler. | 08:43 |
poningru | they will? | 08:43 |
poningru | damn my skillz amaze even me | 08:43 |
nixternal | RIAA is worse than Hitler | 08:43 |
adamant1988 | it was an example. | 08:43 |
poningru | I didnt know i had such awesome skillz | 08:43 |
beuno | mainly because hitler is dead | 08:43 |
nixternal | I tell people at church that DRM is the anti-christ and they need to stear clear of it. I am going to find a verse eventually in the Bible that will back that up :) | 08:44 |
mindspin | sure you will | 08:44 |
adamant1988 | nixternal: Just add it in there somewhere, they'll never notice | 08:44 |
beuno | wikibible! | 08:44 |
adamant1988 | I bet the only one who's actually really read the thing is the preacher. | 08:45 |
nixternal | hehe | 08:45 |
nixternal | dude, the Bible is copyrighted | 08:45 |
nixternal | that is nuts | 08:46 |
adamant1988 | "And Jesus said unto his followers, do not download mp3s with DRM, for they are evil and unjust" | 08:46 |
nixternal | no, Jesus said "don't download mp3's period!" | 08:46 |
adamant1988 | pfft I download Mp3s. | 08:46 |
nixternal | purchase your music, rip it to ogg (vorbis, or whatever), and trade with thy neighbor | 08:46 |
nixternal | I don't download music | 08:47 |
adamant1988 | Meh, all my friends use the standard. I download classical all the time. | 08:47 |
adamant1988 | I use Classical when I'm writing and stuff, and it's obviously not protected by copyright anymore, so no DMCA violations for me | 08:47 |
poningru | actually dude | 08:48 |
poningru | the performances are copyrighted | 08:48 |
crimsun | nixternal: don't you mean "translations are copyrighted"? | 08:48 |
adamant1988 | I really need to start getting my friends using vorbis. | 08:48 |
poningru | even though the sheet music isnt | 08:48 |
nixternal | with Last.fm, I don't have to download anymore | 08:48 |
nixternal | crimsun: yes :) | 08:48 |
nixternal | but you know what I mean ;p | 08:48 |
nixternal | man, this guy follows me everywhere | 08:49 |
adamant1988 | poningru: Hrmm, oh well, guess I need to stop using google to find the stuff :( | 08:49 |
nixternal | Google is the devil! | 08:49 |
poningru | adamant1988: find british royal orchestra's performances | 08:49 |
poningru | they are pd | 08:49 |
nixternal | downloading mp3s, movies, office, xp, vista, or whatever, is the life of a MySpacetard | 08:50 |
crimsun | nixternal's surfing myspace using ie7 on vista as we type | 08:50 |
nixternal | I do not condone it, do not enjoy it, and actually when I hear someone at school talk about their MySpace friends like they are real, I beat them up ;p | 08:50 |
nixternal | hahaha crimsun, I am waiting for someone to blog something like that :) | 08:51 |
nixternal | crimsun: actually, imbrandon is such a Windows junky, he runs Kubuntu with a Vista theme and actually created the ever so popular Royal theme for KDE and KBFX or whatever it is called | 08:51 |
nixternal | My KDE theme screams KDE. I jsut recently switched from Plastik to QtCurve, but kept the inverted look, and even use the default KDE colors, with a semi transparent kicker, and a picture of Cabo San Lucas as my wallpaper | 08:52 |
adamant1988 | nixternal: EEWWWW KDE USZR!!! | 08:53 |
nixternal | hrmm | 08:53 |
=== nixternal doesn't get in the battle of GNOME vs. KDE | ||
poningru | oh come on | 08:53 |
poningru | those are fun | 08:53 |
adamant1988 | No, Vi vs Emacs arguments are better | 08:54 |
nixternal | Kate FTW! | 08:56 |
nixternal | I use emacs when running tty1-6, and I use Kate when I am in the GUI | 08:56 |
=== beuno is reminided of a slashdot poll: http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=1396 | ||
beuno | Ninjas vs Pirates! | 08:56 |
nixternal | that is what I just picked | 08:57 |
nixternal | haha | 08:57 |
beuno | it's hard not to | 08:59 |
=== Burgwork [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-marketing | ||
beuno | Burgwork: I've been a bit disconnected from UWN, but I'm getting it up to speed in the weekend, it's still going out sunday | 10:27 |
Admiral_Chicago | beuno: won't be able to help with UWN, maybe tomorrow | 10:27 |
beuno | Admiral_Chicago: tomorrow works too :D | 10:27 |
Admiral_Chicago | btw, congrats on memberstip | 10:27 |
Admiral_Chicago | ship* | 10:27 |
beuno | thanks! and thanks for the support | 10:28 |
Admiral_Chicago | np | 10:28 |
Burgwork | beuno: sounds good | 10:30 |
Burgwork | I have the whole weekend free, so I will work on it on Saturday | 10:30 |
beuno | great, so we'll all be available | 10:30 |
beuno | jenda has been working to get the UWN exposed on ubuntu's front page! | 10:31 |
=== meatballhat [n=danbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has left #ubuntu-marketing ["Ubuntu] |
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