=== rrittenhouse [n=tad@unaffiliated/rrittenhouse] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === adamant1988 [n=chatzill@doc-24-206-202-2.el.wv.cebridge.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === adamant1988 [n=chatzill@doc-24-206-202-2.el.wv.cebridge.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Burgundavia [n=corey@S010600502c03205f.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Burgundavia [n=corey@S010600502c03205f.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Burgundavia [n=corey@S010600502c03205f.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === freelancer317 [n=chatzill@pool-71-251-145-4.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === zerbero_626 [n=jga@p213.54.29.111.tisdip.tiscali.de] has left #ubuntu-marketing ["Konversation] === zerbero_626 [n=jga@p213.54.29.111.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [03:10] anybody alive? === tonyyarusso is, but don't take that too seriously [03:12] tonyyarusso: I have braindumped a bunch of stuff on the beta page [03:12] Burgundavia: put a link in the topic === jalrnc [n=joao@unaffiliated/jalrnc] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === adamant1988 [n=chatzill@doc-24-206-202-2.el.wv.cebridge.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [06:29] nixternal: ping [06:30] take a look at feisty beta release page [06:30] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FeistyFawn/Beta/ [06:30] someone messed around with it I think [06:30] I think they copied herd 4 ubuntu [06:35] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FeistyFawn/Beta?action=diff === poningru is confuzled [06:37] whatever === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [06:41] GAAAAAh [06:44] nixternal: did you see that? [06:44] your's was better [06:44] the other one seemed to be just herd 4 [06:44] what? [06:44] I missed something [06:46] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FeistyFawn/Beta/ [06:46] seem to be just herd 4 [06:46] as opposed to your really cool one [06:46] like the oem thing is gone [06:48] you guys quit stealing my mojo :) [06:48] knock them shadows down a bit [06:48] is that 8 8 15 80 [06:49] 2 2 4 50 is the best drop shadow, very clean and yet gives that floating appearance === mindspin [n=mindspin@p54b27d53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === rjian [n=chatzill@203.111.235.139] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Burgundavia [n=corey@S010600502c03205f.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [08:00] beuno: you around? === Knightlust [n=DaxSolom@203.87.200.214] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === juliux [n=Julius@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [08:06] ok, need somebody to finish up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Beta [08:06] I need to head to bed, otherwise I would do it [08:06] hello Burgundavia [08:07] hey rjian, long time no see [08:07] just around hehe creating articles hehe [08:08] Burgundavia: u bz ? hehe [08:27] :o [08:27] Beta :o === MenZa is intrigued. === juliux_ [n=Julius@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === xipietotec [n=jackfros@194.115.109.66.static.dis.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === zerbero_626 [n=jga@p213.54.189.213.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Cnl_Delta [i=Cnl_Delt@124.125.36.230] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === mindspin [n=mindspin@p54b27d53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [11:49] what is the email addy for the fridge team? === mindspin [n=mindspin@p54b27d53.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-marketing ["Konversation] === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === meatballhat [n=danbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === adamant1988 [n=chatzill@doc-24-206-202-2.el.wv.cebridge.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [03:25] jenda: ping! === yama`` [n=yama@ppp4-105.lns1.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [03:27] meatballhat: pong! [03:27] jenda: isn't April 1st a Sunday?? [03:27] yep [03:27] :D https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings [03:28] Yes... I know... [03:28] aha [03:28] right :) [03:28] That's an April fool's joke, meatballhat ;) [03:28] (fixed) [03:29] then I fell for it ;-) [03:29] Christina Armstrong has left Canonical??? whaa? [03:31] yep === juliux [n=Julius@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [03:31] mornin' [03:32] mornin' ;) [03:32] I've just sent an email to the mailing list, but it looks like we're doing duplicate work: [03:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Beta [03:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyBetaAnnouncement [03:32] and neither is finished for today, the beta release date :( [03:38] Christina Armstrong has left Canonical??? whaa? ... yep .... and yet she's still responding to email with her canonical.com addy? ( /me = doesn't like ghosts and/or goblins) [03:38] meatballhat: read her mail ;) === BHSPitMonkey [n=stephen@67.64.145.227] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === meatballhat removes foot from mouth :P [03:40] jenda: you and your "reading" [03:40] :) [03:40] meatballhat: within a few years, it'll likely be my job. [03:40] (to read) === jenda gets to send out about 10 packs of CDs a day... [03:42] jenda: that's my wife's dream job ... mine is to listen to music ... :P [03:42] I must say I don't envy shipit... [03:42] oh boy! [03:42] hehe [03:43] And what's worse - I pay for this from my own money ;) [03:43] (although most people understood the concept of 'voluntary donation' quite well, so I should strike pretty close to even in the end) [03:44] what use is money if it's not spent on voluntary efforts? [03:57] crimsun++ ;) [04:03] +1 from /me, too :D === rrittenhouse [n=tad@unaffiliated/rrittenhouse] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === jenda filled in Bruno's survey === juliux [n=Julius@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === meatballhat [n=danbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has left #ubuntu-marketing ["Ubuntu] === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-197-231.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === meatballhat [n=danbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-197-231.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:25] gaaah [07:25] that armstrong person did not respond to like 20 of my emails [07:26] and tony isnt here so I can bitch at him [07:28] poningru: she is responding the mailing list [07:28] and she has been very busy with the website fresh [07:28] refresh [07:29] WTH [07:29] I thought matt was the only guy working on that [07:30] Burgwork: I basically proposed what tony said, like a while ago and sent it like 20 times to jono, and christina [07:30] I even wrote up a spec on it [07:30] right [07:30] but nope [07:30] zero response from her [07:30] let me raise it with her [07:30] see what happened [07:30] now I dont know who this new person is [07:31] chris kenyon [07:32] he is not new [07:32] or never mind [07:32] just got an email from armstrong [07:33] excellent [07:33] ah its about me asking her to attend the meeting [07:34] and she basically saying no since she is leaving [07:34] ahh === mindspin [n=mindspin@p54b27d53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:35] is chris kenyon at all in IRC? [07:38] what is up with free software companies hiring people who do not want to work with community?? [07:38] canonical, mofo all same === poningru stabs his eyes out with a rusty knife [07:38] poningru: I'm sure they're busy. [07:39] adamant1988: well then let me FRACKING HELP [07:39] You have to remember, they're not paid to do the stuff you and I do, they have added responsibilities. [07:39] yeah then let me take some of those on [07:39] instead of not responding to my emails, tell me how I can help [07:39] They'll do it when they can I'm sure; [07:40] like I had to bitch and moan at matt for about a year before he let me start working on website [07:40] and at mofo [07:40] marketing SUCKS [07:40] the girl who is there supposedly running the college campaign [07:40] wont even respond to my emails regarding using freeculture [07:41] freeculture? [07:41] freeculture.org [07:41] its a international student organization [07:41] about free software, CC, better intellectual property === poningru is the cofounder of florida freeculture [07:42] Gee, I can't help but wonder why you would want to use it then. [07:42] and we would love to help out in marketing of firefox on college campuses [07:43] we are not asking for any fees or anything [07:43] we just wanna help [07:43] but ofcourse the lady does not respond to any of my emails [07:43] What do you know about the college demographic? [07:43] I sent 2 and said frack this [07:43] Because I know if *I* was going to piggyback any services at all to get to them, I'd go through FaceBook,. [07:43] apart from being one and actually doing tons of these kinds of campaigns? [07:44] poningru: And have you had any documented successes? [07:44] ... [07:44] defectivebydesign.org [07:44] Being a member of a demographic can make it nearly impossible to be objective when analyzing it. [07:44] publicaccesstoresearch.org === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:44] trust me we have done tons of marketing campaigns === Cnl_Delta [i=Cnl_Delt@124.125.36.230] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:45] we did a crap load for cc back in the day [07:45] why do you think fsf, pk, etc. all want to use us? [07:45] Do they want to, or did you just get them to? [07:45] no they come to us [07:46] in the case of defectivebydesign.org [07:46] they came to us [07:46] uh huh, well, Defective by design looks like a rediculous scare tactic. === poningru shakes head [07:46] Oh sorry, probably should have sugar coated that. [07:47] yeah thats it dude [07:47] the defectivebydesign.org website is incredibly slanted and biased, I wouldn't trust it === poningru is actually rofling right now [07:47] its cool that you wanna try to knock me down or whatever dude... [07:47] Feel free to laugh, I'm being serious. [07:48] but dont try to do that with established marketing campaigns [07:48] Yeah, established scare tactics. Awesome. [07:48] but yeah you need some lessons in belittling someone too it seems [07:48] I'm not trying to. === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:48] uh... sure if you say so [07:49] btw we should probably take this to non-ubuntu channel [07:49] this is getting non-soc fast [07:49] I'm making a point, your organizations "campaign" services should not be utilized for the marketing team. [07:49] hooray for not belittling someone [07:49] like I said you need lessons in that [07:50] I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm a member of your "college demographic" too, and frankly none of these sites look like something I would trust or visit more than once. [07:50] Yes, highly effective. [07:50] adamant1988: you are not understanding the campaign [07:51] these websites are not meant to be entirely used for the convincing people to do anything [07:51] I'm even a member of *the* target audience, I'm an informed open-source advocate, and the dbd.org site looks like a rediculous attempt to slant my opinion [07:51] its the physical talking that is the campaign [07:52] also keep in mind we cant claim credit for the hazard suits awesomeness [07:52] that was all fsf [07:52] Now, I like the letter to Steve Jobs and such, but I don't think it's effective. [07:53] well duh... its not meant to be effective against steve jobs [07:53] its meant to show the hypocrisy in what he is saying [07:53] to other people [07:53] Ok, do you have traffic counts? === MenZa throws a facebook at poningru [07:53] I want to see what kind of exposure the site gets. [07:54] traffic counts? [07:54] adamant1988: you still dont understand [07:54] If the physical talking is your campaign, then it wasn't smart to try to sway me with the url. [07:54] that site is not meant to be a frontend for convincing people [07:54] adamant1988: sure it was [07:55] cause you are supposed to be a marketer [07:55] a 'informed open-source advocate' [07:55] s/a/an [07:55] Which I am, so if you're going to give me the URL and then tell me "Oh that doesn't matter" then what was the point? [07:56] no it doesnt matter to the end-user who we are trying to reach [07:56] that url matters to other marketers [07:56] I wouldn't use it. [07:56] i...c [07:56] It's heavily biased, if I was going to use some kind of service for my material, I would pick an objective one. [07:57] dude... [07:57] objectivity in marketing? [07:57] are you sure? [07:57] poningru: I'm a firm believe in data, I've had success with marketing tactics that don't require me to say something that's not true, or slant the evidence in my favor. [07:58] If I can't market something on it's own merits, it's not worth marketing. [07:58] I never said any of those [07:58] you just present all the good arguments of one side [07:59] Instead of preaching "DRM is Evil" you should be saying "This is why non-DRM is better" and be clear and concise as to why. [07:59] uh... no dude [07:59] thats not how you are supposed to be doing it [07:59] while that should take up a small portion of your points [07:59] it should not be the majority [08:00] you are still thinking the build em and they will come philosophy [08:00] No, I'm thinking in the "I'd rather not slant my information" philosophy. [08:00] no one is slanting any information [08:01] ... So you call presenting a one sided argument NOT slanting? [08:01] what information is being 'slanted' [08:01] No you're right, there is absolutely NO bias there at all. [08:01] ... [08:02] read through my conversation [08:02] I can just copy and paste my statements from above [08:02] I bet your "Physical conversations" are just as heavily biased. [08:02] If not more. [08:02] Have you bothered to watch any competitive adverts lately? [08:03] explain [08:03] if you are telling me that these competitive advertz dont have any bias and present 'information' [08:03] but no go ahead [08:04] explain to me your marketing idea then dude [08:04] They present accurate information, just look at ANY Red Hat adverts. [08:04] you present all the information and let the user decide? [08:04] poningru: You present the information in the appropriate format, just don't slant it. [08:05] I have to agree with poningru, marketing isn't about presenting the information and letting the users decide, that only works for a small fraction of users [08:05] so you say things like 'linux doesnt have any desktop market share' === beuno butts in [08:05] ?? [08:05] poningru: Or you say "Linux has a rapidly growing market share" [08:05] Both are true. [08:06] adamant1988: EXACTLY [08:06] but thats slanting according to you [08:06] and should not be done [08:06] No, slanting is not presenting the other side at all. [08:06] WTF [08:06] you didnt present the other side there [08:06] you said it has a rapidly growing market share [08:06] didnt say anything about current market share [08:07] If I was going to make an advert out of that, I would show the growth [08:07] yes exactly [08:07] you emphasis the growth, and take attention away from the fact that right now it doesnt have any [08:08] Ok, so I would show the growth, I would show a statistic in a form where it was readable/entertaining. But you don't lie about the competitors. [08:08] and I guess I can see how some people see this as 'slant' but thats what marketing is [08:08] "DRM is evil!" [08:08] Ok, DRM is NOT evil, and saying so is a blatant attempt to bias me. [08:08] adamant1988: how is that false? [08:09] drm is evil [08:09] hardly, DRM is an anti-theft device on media to prevent unauthorized distribution according to the law. The fact that we disagree does not make it evil, it CAN make it unethical though. [08:09] lol [08:10] I agree, DRM is unethical, but hardly Evil. [08:10] I don't think Satan himself has had a hand in it. [08:10] evil == marketing speak for unethical [08:10] And *that* is what I'm talking about. [08:11] brb [08:12] what is '*that*'? [08:13] sorry brb we have a person here to fix the dishwasher [08:14] Using a word substitute that warps what you're saying into a different beast. [08:15] "Unethical [08:15] Not ethical; not in accordance with the standards followed in a business or profession." [08:16] http://www.answers.com/Evil [08:18] The differences are pretty clear. Of course obviously there is some overlap since you like the FSF and probably agree with RMS on most of his points. [08:30] no dude the difference is not that clear in an end user's view point [08:30] sorry the guy just left [08:30] anyway [08:30] Ask anyone what they associate with the word Evil, and I bet you you'll find the difference is even greater. [08:31] adamant1988: the entire point of marketing is to show your product as really good [08:31] without seeming ape-shit crazy [08:31] poningru: Then show your product as good without calling the otherone on things that aren't true. [08:31] clearly RMS does not fullfill this criterion [08:31] adamant1988: thats a given [08:31] "DRM is Evil" is blatantly opinionated. "DRM is a violation of your consumer rights" is a much more true statement. [08:32] so you are saying you shouldnt have opinions in them? [08:32] lol [08:32] Well, opinionated was the wrong word I suppose. [08:32] But I would keep opinions as far from it as possible. [08:33] But, I can understand why the FSF would utilize your services. [08:38] so what kinda things shouldnt be in advertz? [08:38] you already said slanting is ok [08:38] and opinions are allowed [08:38] so... [08:38] what isnt allowed? [08:39] blatantly lieing? we agree on that [08:39] I supposed the extremes of slanting and opinionated/biased advertisind? [08:39] any sort of lying is wrong [08:39] advertising* [08:39] so where do you draw the line? and why is your line the one that matters? [08:40] Calling something evil is a bit extreme, and probably not as effective as you would like it to be. [08:40] actually dude its really effective I would say [08:40] you just have to do it without making yourself seem complete ape-shit crazy [08:40] poningru: Do a little study for yourself, tell 10 people that DRM is evil, and tell the other 10 that it's a violation of their consumer rights. [08:40] I bet the latter is more effective. [08:41] adamant1988: I would much rather tell them both [08:41] adamant1988: you honestly dont think nixternal here is gonna go and tell someone "DRM IS EVIL" and just walk away do you? [08:41] I avoid using such extremes, and I've had good success locally educating people about DRM. [08:41] no, I am going to punch them in the face before I walk away :) [08:42] lol [08:42] finally some sense... [08:42] poningru: if your goal is to make them think DRM is evil, then you're going to keep pushing that idea. [08:43] By the time you're finished they'll think of the RIAA leadership as relatives of Hitler. [08:43] they will? [08:43] damn my skillz amaze even me [08:43] RIAA is worse than Hitler [08:43] it was an example. [08:43] I didnt know i had such awesome skillz [08:43] mainly because hitler is dead [08:44] I tell people at church that DRM is the anti-christ and they need to stear clear of it. I am going to find a verse eventually in the Bible that will back that up :) [08:44] sure you will [08:44] nixternal: Just add it in there somewhere, they'll never notice [08:44] wikibible! [08:45] I bet the only one who's actually really read the thing is the preacher. [08:45] hehe [08:45] dude, the Bible is copyrighted [08:46] that is nuts [08:46] "And Jesus said unto his followers, do not download mp3s with DRM, for they are evil and unjust" [08:46] no, Jesus said "don't download mp3's period!" [08:46] pfft I download Mp3s. [08:46] purchase your music, rip it to ogg (vorbis, or whatever), and trade with thy neighbor [08:47] I don't download music [08:47] Meh, all my friends use the standard. I download classical all the time. [08:47] I use Classical when I'm writing and stuff, and it's obviously not protected by copyright anymore, so no DMCA violations for me [08:48] actually dude [08:48] the performances are copyrighted [08:48] nixternal: don't you mean "translations are copyrighted"? [08:48] I really need to start getting my friends using vorbis. [08:48] even though the sheet music isnt [08:48] with Last.fm, I don't have to download anymore [08:48] crimsun: yes :) [08:48] but you know what I mean ;p [08:49] man, this guy follows me everywhere [08:49] poningru: Hrmm, oh well, guess I need to stop using google to find the stuff :( [08:49] Google is the devil! [08:49] adamant1988: find british royal orchestra's performances [08:49] they are pd [08:50] downloading mp3s, movies, office, xp, vista, or whatever, is the life of a MySpacetard [08:50] nixternal's surfing myspace using ie7 on vista as we type [08:50] I do not condone it, do not enjoy it, and actually when I hear someone at school talk about their MySpace friends like they are real, I beat them up ;p [08:51] hahaha crimsun, I am waiting for someone to blog something like that :) [08:51] crimsun: actually, imbrandon is such a Windows junky, he runs Kubuntu with a Vista theme and actually created the ever so popular Royal theme for KDE and KBFX or whatever it is called [08:52] My KDE theme screams KDE. I jsut recently switched from Plastik to QtCurve, but kept the inverted look, and even use the default KDE colors, with a semi transparent kicker, and a picture of Cabo San Lucas as my wallpaper [08:53] nixternal: EEWWWW KDE USZR!!! [08:53] hrmm === nixternal doesn't get in the battle of GNOME vs. KDE [08:53] oh come on [08:53] those are fun [08:54] No, Vi vs Emacs arguments are better [08:56] Kate FTW! [08:56] I use emacs when running tty1-6, and I use Kate when I am in the GUI === beuno is reminided of a slashdot poll: http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=1396 [08:56] Ninjas vs Pirates! [08:57] that is what I just picked [08:57] haha [08:59] it's hard not to === Burgwork [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [10:27] Burgwork: I've been a bit disconnected from UWN, but I'm getting it up to speed in the weekend, it's still going out sunday [10:27] beuno: won't be able to help with UWN, maybe tomorrow [10:27] Admiral_Chicago: tomorrow works too :D [10:27] btw, congrats on memberstip [10:27] ship* [10:28] thanks! and thanks for the support [10:28] np [10:30] beuno: sounds good [10:30] I have the whole weekend free, so I will work on it on Saturday [10:30] great, so we'll all be available [10:31] jenda has been working to get the UWN exposed on ubuntu's front page! === meatballhat [n=danbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has left #ubuntu-marketing ["Ubuntu]