=== coopster [n=bcoop@c-69-247-17-164.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [12:28] jenda: You here? [12:29] Well, whoever does the website might want to fix the giant brown typo [12:29] http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/webforums [12:29] "Web fourms" [12:34] adamant1988: file a bug [12:34] unforunately, community edit access has since the changeove [12:34] Isn't that just a...anyone-can-use-and-edit Wiki? [12:34] :P [12:34] :o [12:34] used to be [12:34] now is drupal === MenZa splutters [12:35] DRUPAL+ [12:35] The old wiki was bad enough. === MenZa really wants MediaWiki :( [12:35] Anywho... it just needs fixed... I'll go file a bug in a few [12:36] mediawiki is php and has security issues [12:36] YOU have security issues! === MenZa just thought the old wiki was horrible to edit. [12:37] wiki.ubuntu.com is still a wiki [12:37] www.ubuntu.com is now drupal [12:37] I like the new website. [12:37] A lot. [12:37] It looks very professional. [12:37] Ubuntu uses an old version of MoinMoin for their Wiki don't they? [12:38] Hmm, I don't remember what it's called [12:38] Yeah [12:38] MoinMoin Wiki Engine [12:38] Whatever it is, I know it's not as up to date as it should be because recent versions of the software allow for WYSIWYG editing. [12:38] pfft [12:38] Give me a proper syntax [12:38] I don't need WYSIWYG [12:38] MenZa: I like coding it out, and you like coding it out. Not everyone does. [12:38] I hate when people think their "new" syntaxes are so perfect [12:39] The more WYSIWYG it is, the more docs we'll have. [12:39] adamant1988: I don't mind WYSIWYG [12:39] as long as I can turn it off :) [12:39] The only place that I think WYSIWYG would really help me is constructing tables. [12:39] If I just have html tables, I honestly don't care [12:40] It ends up taking me some amount of time to construct a proper floating table to use as my table-of-contents [12:40] :D [12:40] I ended up basing my table off the one in the MarketingTeam wiki. [12:40] Trimmed down as I thought necessary though [12:40] wow [12:40] I feel bad now [12:40] hmm [12:40] tr = tablerow [12:40] td = table...? [12:40] table [12:41] -> table row [12:41] -> table d-whatever [12:41] huzzah [12:41] MenZa: It doesn't seem that simple on Ubuntu's wiki lol [12:41] true [12:41] I hated making my wikipage [12:41] There's a lot of || Thishtana || this that and the other || [12:42] yeh [12:42] BAD syntax [12:42] WYSIWYG is just much faster when it comes to tables I think. [12:42] MenZa: please quit it [12:42] moin has a different syntax [12:42] get used to it [12:42] It's totally illegible [12:42] no, it is merely different [12:42] It's messy [12:42] MenZa: I understand it well enough, I'm just saying that WYSIWYG might be more efficient. [12:42] And badly structured [12:42] in a lot of ways it is less legible than mediawikis [12:43] adamant1988: quite possibly [12:43] however, IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE [12:43] I'm not saying Mediawiki's is good [12:43] In fact, I'm yet to find any wikis/bulletin boards/whatever with a proper table creation syntax [12:43] Well, I'm sure it's a difficult thing to make [12:44] I don't question that :) [12:45] Alas, now I must go [12:45] I'm tired [12:45] I have work tomorrow :\ === coopster [n=bcoop@c-69-247-17-164.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === jalrnc [n=joao@unaffiliated/jalrnc] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === jalrnc [n=joao@unaffiliated/jalrnc] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === jalrnc [n=joao@unaffiliated/jalrnc] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === rexbron [n=rexbron@CPE001310b2d1d1-CM0012256e816a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [05:14] damn it [05:14] guys I wanna apologise for dropping the ball on the beta release notes [05:15] I was just really really pissed about armstrong not replying to any of my emails [05:15] and I basically said frack this [05:15] poningru: Prolly b/c she was cleaning out her desk I'd imagine? [05:15] so... I'm sorry [05:15] tonyyarusso: hehe [05:15] Don't worry about it too much === tonyyarusso had no idea she was leaving [05:16] no dude I can understand that, its just she never replied previously [05:16] see its not just her its some people at mofo too [05:16] same response [05:16] as in nil [05:16] so I was like frack marketing for oss [05:16] for like a day [05:16] at mofo? [05:17] mozilla foundation [05:17] ah [05:24] where did she announce she was leaving? [05:25] I don't think she did - Fabio mentioned it [05:25] yes, but how did he find out? [05:25] He works there [05:25] he mentions an email [05:25] aaaah [05:25] makes sense [05:25] :) [05:25] would of been great for them to give us the heads up... [05:27] yeah... [05:27] I wanna bring this up with jono [05:28] Go for it [05:28] +1 on nagging to jono :p [05:28] maybe we should drag him into our meeting? [05:30] I emailed him [05:30] no response yet [05:34] do we really need him? [05:36] well, we have to build some sort of bridge to canonical, don't we? [05:36] it seems we've been out of the loop [05:52] indeed [05:52] Burgundavia: armstrong forwarded my email to the new guy [05:52] he is not that person [05:52] err semi new guy [05:52] right [05:52] which new guy? [05:53] jono is not that person (in terms of the bridge, that is) [05:53] but if the semi-new-guy works like armstrong we should def have jono in [05:53] oh? [05:53] who would that person be then? [05:53] Burgundavia: chris kenyon [05:53] the new guy [05:53] he is not knew [05:53] s/knew/new [05:53] geez, I am tired [05:53] right semi new guy [05:54] christina is newer than chris and the person we want to talk to more [05:55] Burgundavia: who would be the person then? [05:55] christina armstrong is our person [05:55] matthew for the web stuf [05:55] well, that's not good :D [05:55] since she is leaving [05:55] leaving the company? [05:55] yeah dude [05:56] ha! [05:56] hmm [05:56] let me forward you the email [05:56] Burgundavia: a few emails have been flying through the ML [05:56] anyone need any help? UWN or anything? [05:56] I see that [05:56] so that leaves us with no bridge, which is why jono came up [05:56] boredandblogging: UWN always needs help [05:56] ahh, I see [05:56] I misread that [05:57] likely because i was at work [05:57] which I thought was the person who bridged the community to canonical [05:57] well, chris can do it now [05:57] yes, we just wanted to make sure this doesn't happen again [05:57] what doesn't happen agains?] [05:57] we found out christina was leaving out of pure luck [05:58] right [05:58] someone said "let's invite christina to the meeting" [05:58] tonyyarusso, any particular section, I tried searching for some In The Press links, but its a bit thin out there even with the beta release [05:58] that sort of thing is not something that is going to be shared with teh community [05:58] and then fabian answered "she's not working here anymore" [05:58] boredandblogging: want to fill in some of the info for the newly approved members? [05:58] boredandblogging: Start on some other stuff and come back to itp after they've had a few hours to process the beta [05:59] Burgundavia: marketing person from canonical leaving isn't worth mentioning to the "ubuntu marketing team"? [05:59] companies rarely share who is leaving publicly [05:59] it is fact of life [05:59] yeah, that's true [05:59] look, I also carry the title of Open Source communtiy manager, merely at Userful [05:59] I deal with these things as well [05:59] I don't like it, but it's true [05:59] aaah [06:00] so you're the person we should nag! :D [06:00] there is also a feeling from within Canonical that we are disorganized [06:00] i'll add links to the newly approved members, is it ok if I just read their own descriptions for the summary? [06:00] boredandblogging: yes, I'll look over it tomorrow [06:00] boredandblogging: but at least you can push it forward :D [06:00] beuno, will do [06:01] Burgundavia: well no duh [06:01] they wont tell us what they are working on [06:01] so we cant really do anything to help [06:01] what the feeling I am getting from canonical is lets keep official pr and community marketing seperate [06:01] I dont know how true that is [06:02] if it is then I will just back off and do the community marketing thing [06:02] maybe it's a chicken and egg situation, but we still have to find a way around it [06:02] I see it that way too poningru [06:02] if they dont want it to be separate I wanna help [06:02] the Beta announcment just now is a good example [06:03] yeah and I wanna avoid that for final [06:04] yep, the beta document being crap was partly my fault [06:04] shall we start on teh final document now? [06:04] all it really needs is some screenshots [06:04] I wasn't talking about that, but we worked on 2 documents, and neither was used in ubuntu.com [06:05] Burgundavia: isnt there another beta before this? [06:05] there will be a release candidate [06:05] it was said somewhere that "canonical would handle the official announcement" [06:05] err right [06:05] the press release itself will be canonical [06:05] the graphical notes we can do, if we step and prove it [06:05] Burgundavia: err actually the release notes being crap was kinda my fault [06:05] see my earlier apology [06:05] wasn't that way with previous herds [06:05] anyway [06:05] no worries [06:06] it happened === tonyy [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [06:06] well, I practically didn't help there either, so I've got part of the blame too [06:06] Burgundavia: but see what I was talking about was lets do a press release thing for final [06:06] but again, it almost feels like we're being pushed away [06:06] the press release is going to done by canonical [06:06] where we do it all localized [06:07] look, writing good press releases is hard and you need a good list [06:07] Burgundavia: but why cant people work together? [06:07] for the record, I also do that for Userful and I have painstakingly collected my list [06:07] they can [06:07] I will talk with Chris by phone on Monday [06:07] That'd be great [06:07] is he the one that does them? [06:07] Burgundavia: have you seen the spec I wrote up? [06:07] he will be the one working with a pr agency to do it [06:07] poningru: linky [06:07] ? [06:08] hold on [06:08] at the end of the day, we have to recognize that the press release will be written by somebody else [06:08] lets work on the bits we can rock on [06:08] well, you talking to Chris puts my mind at ease on that subject [06:08] maybe get him in our meeting? [06:08] I can try [06:08] it is a weekend for him [06:08] just to try and get back in sync [06:09] yep [06:09] we need to keep it tightly focused then [06:09] these are the issues at stake: [06:09] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/loco-press-releases [06:09] 1. press release localization [06:09] noooooooooo [06:09] 2. graphical release notes [06:10] poningru: one note on that: Canonical sends in en worldwide, not just _gb [06:10] given that english is the default language for business. [06:10] well right [06:10] but why not have it localized? [06:10] I agree with you [06:11] given that we don't need to hide what Feisty contains, we can say that there is no need to embargo the actual contents [06:11] as for the actual release notes, we should try and get a pdf version [06:12] probably not difficult [06:12] nixternal: you still up? [06:13] yes [06:13] Burgundavia: I also think special attention should be paid to sites like digg and slashdot, to make sure the approptiate information gets through [06:13] it's very common for random wiki lins to go there [06:13] nixternal: given you have real world marketing experience, care to wade in? [06:13] and that's a big audience to be misguiding [06:13] beuno: that issue is due to the website changeover [06:13] what are we discussing? [06:14] better canonical ?<--> marketing team communication [06:14] basically, those of us who could edit the website haven't got those rights back yet [06:14] I need to ping Nuzum directly [06:14] well I have been saying that for over a year now [06:14] regarding the specific issues at hand, any thoughts? [06:15] I haven't seen anything out of the Canonical side as far as marketing, all of Ubuntu marketing has been done by community members [06:15] the ubuntu people have done a bunch of paper stuff [06:15] It upsets me to see them put marketing resources into a closed-source/non-free system such as Launchpad to be honest [06:15] and there was talk of getting some of the mystory stuff to the community, to be wrirten [06:16] nixternal: I agree. LP's non-open status makes me quite uncomfortable, given what we use it for... [06:16] yup, and it upsets a majority of the devs as well [06:17] it is a festering sore [06:17] but that is a bikeshed we don't need to paint again [06:17] hehe [06:17] I love the anology [06:17] lol [06:18] ok, I just pinged Matthew about restoring website access [06:18] where is he? [06:18] what happened to his channel? [06:18] he is on vacation [06:19] oh [06:19] he is? [06:19] oh, geez [06:19] where is ho whats his face [06:19] hops or something [06:19] hops? [06:19] not sure what his name was [06:19] old time webmaster [06:20] heno? [06:20] yeah thats it [06:20] he is canonicals accessibility person [06:20] oh? [06:20] random fact: heno has no arms or legs [06:20] waah? [06:20] are you serious? [06:20] ya, he did a huge website redesign, and then goes on vacation :) [06:20] hahahahaha [06:20] ie: he kicks all of our asses at the whole typing thing [06:21] Burgundavia: how does he type? [06:21] who unregistered matt's channel though? === poningru steals it [06:21] we should totally do that [06:22] when he comes back a bunch of us should be sitting in there with ops [06:22] matts channel? [06:22] #ubuntu-matt [06:22] For website questions [06:22] poningru: lol [06:23] ahh === beuno thinks that a simple wiki page with a "who does what" would solve a lot of problems [06:24] as in "in charge of" [06:24] ubuntu-wide [06:24] there is already CanonicalStaff [06:25] back to the topic at hand [06:25] anything else you want me to talk to Chris about? [06:25] ok, good enough [06:25] Burgundavia: maybe a "what does canonical expect from us"? [06:26] so we know if we're lagging behind [06:26] I think they expect regular meetings [06:26] and clear projects [06:26] for instance, the dyi [06:26] is there a clear todo and a project plan? [06:26] yes, it has been stalled on my side [06:27] yep [06:27] but it's clear on what's left [06:27] letting stuff get stalled on one person is bad [06:27] finish the php code, and start uploading [06:27] the UWN and the release notes seemed to have survived my disappearance [06:27] well, I pushed all the code to the bzr with comments [06:27] is it doable to have dyi up for Feisty? [06:27] Burgundavia: barely - took some big "stepping up to the plate", largely on beuno's part. [06:28] I still intend to finish it, but I've been trying get UWN back up [06:28] :D [06:28] indeed [06:28] So yeah, about that membership thing, thumbs ups for beuno [06:28] and my saturday just got blown apart, due to a careless alarm tech cutting some network cables in my office [06:28] but to answer your other question, yes, it's doable to get diy by feist [06:29] that is our self appointed goal with dan and jenda [06:29] when was the last time you put a call out for volunteers? [06:29] do you have some "junior jobs"? [06:29] Burgundavia: I (we) can handle the UWN [06:29] Burgundavia: for UWN or DIY? [06:29] the latter [06:30] beuno: yeah dude I wanna help with that too [06:30] poningru: the more the merrier [06:30] I thought it was done and ready to go [06:30] Burgundavia: it's up to a point where it would take 10 times less for us to get it up then have new ppl get in [06:31] ok [06:31] after it's up, theres all kinds of small sized jobs we can pass on [06:31] poningru: #33 needs some work [06:31] cleaning up, suming up, filling in a few sections [06:31] oh blargh? [06:31] blargh? [06:31] see I am not at all knowledgable about bzr [06:31] I do not know what you mean about 33 [06:32] aah [06:32] UWN #33: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue33 [06:32] oh lol [06:32] you meant DIY? [06:32] I thought you meant ..yeah [06:32] what about hosting a sprint on the DYI next weekend? [06:32] poningru: you familiar with PHP? [06:32] beuno: yep [06:32] working on suc right now [06:32] well supposed to be [06:33] well, this is good news :D [06:33] also one suggestion a friend of mine had is... [06:33] most newsletters and magazines release for the week following [06:34] poningru: do you have bzr installed? [06:34] beuno: yes [06:34] I know how to download [06:34] but no clue how to push [06:34] DRAT [06:34] ok sorry guys I have to go sleep [06:34] a rep is coming to our uni tomorrow [06:34] so have to wake up extra early [06:34] cya [06:34] poningru: np, we'll continue this later on [06:34] yes please [06:34] :) [06:34] nn [06:35] beuno: back on release managemetn for the dyi stuff [06:35] Burgundavia: the situation is I need to work on it for 2 hours and it should be "usable" [06:35] ok [06:36] do you want to try and hold a "sprint" for it next weekend? [06:36] but I've been putting all my energy on UWN, and have been coding too much at work, so that's been turning me off [06:36] yep, the UWN is a huge time suck [06:36] well, what would the sprint consist in? me drinking tons of energy drinks? :p [06:36] that is why I burned out [06:37] http://wiki.python.org/moin/SprintIntroduction [06:37] ignore the "in the same place stuff" [06:37] I just got a "forum integration" think out of my system by hacking up the acual code for it and sending it to ryan [06:38] Burgundavia: I know what a sprint is, it just normally involves more then one developer :p [06:38] I'm aiming to get the rest of the backend done this weekend [06:38] indeed [06:38] if not, I'll make sure that poningru can finish whatever I didn't [06:38] and get it up [06:38] I cannot code worth a damn, but I and Madpilot can do some of the web stuff [06:39] and if we declare a sprint and say "we need this to be done", we will get people [06:39] I'm not comfortable being the bottleneck, so I'm up to a point where it's harder *not* to do it [06:40] sadly, getting rid of a bottleneck is easier said than done [06:40] ok, well, let's do this, if I don't get it done by this weekend, next one we do a sprint [06:40] yeap, sadly [06:40] what is your thought on getting the UWN out by? [06:41] I'd like to get it out by sunday, as planned [06:41] beuno, shouldn't you write your own member profile on the UWN? ;-) [06:41] impose an actual "weekly" release [06:41] boredandblogging: probably not, heh [06:41] but I will make sure none of it is incorrect [06:42] beuno, hah, congrats man [06:42] boredandblogging: thanks :D [06:42] sunday means differeent things in different places [06:42] Burgundavia: I'd also like to address mark's comment on getting more exposue to "uwn" [06:42] remember, our timezones are 10 hours apart [06:43] Burgundavia: I don't mind it's the "latest hour possible in the world" [06:43] as long as it's always on the same day [06:43] I usually aimed for Sunday 00:00 UTC-8, which is 10am your time [06:43]